Organized Process: The Key to Maximum Productivity With Tracy Hazzard From the Take Back Time Podcast with Penny Zenker

What is your relationship with time? Are you wired and tired, stressed and overwhelmed, busy and going nowhere, or just want to scale your business? Welcome to Take Back Time with your host, Penny Zanker. Penny focuses on books, strategies, tools and tips to help you work smarter and approach your time more strategically. As a result, you can have more energy, focus and get more done in less time, be more efficient and get ready to take back time.

Tracy, welcome to the show.

Excited to be here.

I'm excited to have you here because not only are you this amazing innovation guru as well as the podcast master, but you also a really productive individual. Right. And I know that you've got a lot of productivity tips and things that you do that work for you that would be great to share.

I thought you were going to call me the podcast mistress, which is like kind of the way that I approach everything. Like everything is disciplined around here. So, you know, it's kind of funny, but I seem like I'm a really easy going, cool person. I have an art background, a designer background, but everything has a system and a place here and that's how we maintain high productivity in what we do. And systems and processes just have to come out of that.

So, you know, that's interesting. I think a lot of creative people probably feel like that's an oxymoron, like, oh, you know, structure me, put me in a box. Like that's so. So how did you find that out that that was essential for you, even though does it stop you from being creative and, you know, and when did you find out that was so important?

Yeah, you know, that's a really great question because I don't think that I ever really realized that I was different than the other artists and designers. When I was in college. I mean, I didn't intend to go to art school. It was happened one of those things where I didn't get into my first choice school and art school came up and I just thought this was the rebellious thing to do. And yeah, so what I did to.

My parents, I'm going to start.

Oh no. I honestly made my mom really happy because she is an artist. But you know, it's one of those things where I didn't realize my brain worked differently than other artists. I didn't understand that because the creativity was just flowing from me. It was sort of a compelled to do that. That's compelled to create. Right. So I didn't really think about that. That was just an ongoing thing. But I was a very organized thinker and a very organized person, which Made me a successful student, I think made me successful in business, has given me success factors that I didn't even realize it, but that had become a basis of, like, just underlying structure to it. I think I needed it in order to free up the creative thought. And I didn't realize that at the time. It's just one of those things that happen, that by creating an organization and structure, I actually gave my mind a lot of freedom to innovate and create and to be thinking all about that and not worrying about all these little things in the chaos of everyday life. Right.

I hear that from a lot of people that are creatives, is that once they found the structure, it really created a freedom that they didn't expect. Right. But a lot of people aren't born with it or naturally like that. So you.

I have an artist mom and an engineer dad, so you can. Yeah, the two blended together perfectly.

Perfect. And I think it's those systems and structures that have helped you to scale potatoes the way that you do and be able to bring on a lot more people onto the platform because it's already automated.

Yeah. You know, this is the thing. It's like when we started our podcast, and this is April 2015, we started our podcast, our very first show. And when we started it, we started it with organization in mind because I couldn't let it derail our daily workload. So we started out with this organization of we're only going to do four interviews a month. We're only going to have a half day where we record all of our other shows, like all of the other content, and we're going to do that, and we're going to do it twice a month. We're going to have these blocks of time. So we blocked it out because we had to create, we had clients, and we had other things in our core business at the time that we had to structure around. So I couldn't let it derail everything. And then very quickly discovered, oh, there's all these tasks to do. So if I'm going to hire people to do them, I need to be very specific about hiring them to make sure that they're efficient so I don't have to really do a lot of overseeing. Like, my least favorite thing is to reread things, re listen to them, like, do stuff twice. Like, I hate to do things twice. So if I recorded. Yeah, it is. It's totally a good motivator. If I've recorded something and I knew it was good while I was doing it, then I'm Done. I don't want to hear it again. So I gotta leave that to somebody else, you know. So that's kind of where the drivers for me have always been, this kind of efficiency model for me to be able to do what I want to do. And when we built that, people looked at it and said, hey, would you do that for me? And I was like, well, I got capacity because I hired this team, so why not? And so that's how we became. And overall, that's what we really do is we sort of look at those hard, difficult things, the things that we procrastinate about, the things that we also spend too much time in, like to weigh into it. And you know, it's not actually progressive for your business in any way, shape or form, but you get like deep dive into it because you're detail oriented and you want it to be perfect. Those things, those two types of things, when I look at those, those are the places where I'm saying here needs to be a system or people, a process that's going to go underlie all of this. And so that's actually how we do it. We wait and we see those points. So we see crunch in our team. I have 55 employees now, so probably even more, I won't know until the next payroll. It's probably 60 tomorrow. You know, when I see what's going on. Well, what we have right now, we have a really high load of change requests. We look at that and we say, okay, our team's handling that, but is there a better process? Do we take all change requests and put them with one person who does them really efficiently and quickly, or do we send them back to the original person who did the work? And you know, like there's a whole thought process that goes to how you then create a process to it. But it isn't until you see a bulk of things going wrong or things being difficult or stressful on you that you know that that's the place.

So how do you, you know, there's a lot of people who just tolerate that stressfulness, right. Or tolerate that problem.

And I have no patience. I think that's probably why that is.

That's good that you have no patience. I'm a firm believer. I think there's a question that you typically ask yourself that might be different from what other people ask. Right. That is sort of like your driving question. What do you think that would be that gets you to start this domino effect of going through and finding the problem and automating or finding a System for it.

Yeah, I mean I think one of the questions that I've always asked, whether it's designing products or designing systems. Right. And software and processes, is that you look at that and I say really, does this have to be like this? Right? Like that's always the fundamental question is that does this really need to be just because this is the way things have been done or the things are done, does it have to be like that? Now that can be very unsettling. Like it can make your team stressed if you're constantly changing things on them. So you have to build a culture that accepts that change in a way. So Tom and I, my partner and husband, we've done a ton of products over in Asia and they don't like change at all. They want to run the same old ugly product year over year over year. Like the last thing they want is me to come in and say we're going to redesign this product and we're going to do it new. And oh by the way, you're going to have to run a whole new machine to make that happen or you're going to a whole new process to make it happen or get a whole new material you've never used before. They like flip out and they will tell you no. And so we learned really early on that push against that no and get buy in. And that is essential.

Yeah. Well, let's talk. I mean I can appreciate the pushing against the no. So the way that that came about for me was I used to be an application developer and so as I started to be that interim person between the developers and the companies that I was consulting with, the first thing that developers, my developer would say is it's not possible. No, I was like now I was there and I know it's possible. Right?

That's right.

And you know it's possible. Right. So. And you know that they're just in resistance. So how do you go about. Because I do believe that resistance is one of the biggest what's in our way and the obstacle is the most important thing to get through when you want to be more productive. Right. Whether it's your own resistance and procrastination or someone else's. So how do you go about getting that buy in?

Like you said, you're right, self resistance is sometimes the worst in the process. Right. I mean, because that's harder to. You don't always look at that introspectively and you don't always think about that. So that's one's harder in the process. And that's really where you get to this place of you keep doing these things day in and day out, and they're stressing you out, but you're not looking at them going, oh, we could do this differently. So sometimes I have to step in. And so my oldest daughter is my operations manager and she's fantastic and a great systems person. She builds fantastic systems, but she doesn't have quite that creative mindset. So sometimes I'll have to say, why are we doing this? And isn't there a way? And she'll say, oh, the software doesn't let us do that. Or there's this restriction here. And I would say, could we hack that and could we do this instead? And she'd be like, how did you think that up? Yes, I can do that. And then she's off and running and things are moving again. Sometimes we need to have that, like, discussion between two people and discussion between a group. Imagine that.

Can I chat with them and text them?

No, it has to be live, right? It has to be dialogue. And so that's really how Buy in happens. And so we did a lot of FaceTime when we went over to China. Like, we would be in with the factory, be on the floor, they'd have to talk to us about the problem, they'd have to show it to us. So there's not a lot of hiding they can do. The resistance starts to fall away. But in the process, our excitement about something, or if we're expressing what the end goal is and the result of how much better their daily process, their daily workload, all of these things are going to be, that's how Buy in happens. The other thing that I think, people just want to be heard. So one of the things that you have to do in that process, and that is the one thing that I do at the beginning, before I start telling them what we're going to do, at some point, you will have to go in and tell them what they're going to do. But before that is that you have to listen to their issues. So I usually ask them a lot of questions about what's not working, what is working, why do you want to keep making the same product, or why do you want to keep doing this the same way? And what would it look like? It was ideal for you. And so kind of walking through those with them, they feel like they've had input into the process. And a lot of times for me, like, I don't know how to make everything right. I have a lot of experience making products we've done 250 products. There probably isn't a material or machine I haven't touched, but I don't know it like someone who's on the line running it and they may have great ideas that actually might make it easier for me to design or make something that I'm doing. So my ability to listen there and us ability to collaborate will really make a better product. And so at the end of the day, what I found is this makes products that are more efficient, more profitable, more buy in happens, more excitement happens in the process. And when people are excited, products sell, services sell.

Right.

When you're excited about them, right. You're proud of them.

You tell everybody you made it as a team. Right. I like the fact a lot of the things that you're talking about and overcoming these obstacles and getting buy in is really how much you're creating that collaboration with the team. Because if you just told them what to do, you're going to bump up against that resistance. Which is what happens in a lot of organizations is there's not a lot of inclusion.

Oh God. We're going to have a meeting. Like it's going to like drag the timeline down, it's going to be unproductive and everything. Now your job as the leader of that is to make sure that it is a very productive meeting. People are listening and having input and it's moving forward. So that's a skill in and of itself. And I'm not a big fan of lots of meetings, but I do have them because at times they're so critically important to this buy in process. And if you don't get that, that will bog down your systems and you will have no ability to move your company forward, to move your product design forward or any of those things that you might be working on your app. Right. Like all of those things can happen in the process. Right. They get bogged down and they don't happen and then they turn out with a poor result. And that is a part of not communicating.

Absolutely.

Let's switch gears a little bit and let's hear about some of your personal. Like that's the business right side of things. But personally, what are your hacks and your shortcuts and tools? If your machine was wiped, what would be the first things that you would install?

Yeah, you know, that's a great way to put it. I love that. So the thing is that I have a really busy personal life too. So I've got two young kids, a puppy who's a year old. Like I got A whole family to take care of. We work out of our home office, even though we have this many employees, because we have offices that are remote. So I have to, like, be at different time zones too. So my ability to be efficient for my personal life is essential to my sanity. Like, otherwise, I don't get downtime, I don't get to read a book, I don't get to do the things I love. Right.

So sanity must be important to you because you're doing something about it where some people not so much.

Right, Exactly. And it is important to me because if I don't operate a top level, my team will not have the resources that they need. Like, I won't be able to bring the in capital. I won't be able to do the things that are necessary to keep my company floating. So nothing sustainable in the process if I'm not so that I look at that. It's a job, it's important. It's really critical for me to separate my personal stuff in place. And a lot of times we let them go. We just were like, oh, I'll just skip it. I won't read that. I won't do this. We skip those things. And what I found over time is that if I don't read a lot of resources, if I don't listen to a bunch of podcasts, if I don't go through all these things or check social media periodically myself instead of, yes, I have a team for that, but if I don't check it myself, I don't understand what's going on in the world. I don't understand what's happening around me, how my families are doing, that I should check in with my mom today. Like, I don't see what's going on. So, like, I mean, this just happened. I got a phone call out of the blue from my aunt and I had been checking all over the place for her. And I knew her husband was going into extended care. And with everything that's going on, she just found out that day that she couldn't visit him. And so no outside visitors were going to be allowed in the care facility. And she was very worried and I was so grateful she picked up the phone to call me because I couldn't see that from what was going on on social because she was just posting nice little sweet quiz, right? And so, like, sometimes we have to read between the lines and check in on people and do things. And so I have a process by which I do that periodically. So I'm always checking in with family members over the course of a week. And I rotated, and it was. My grandmother did this. So my nan, she used to call once a week. She always called. She would say, hi, it's Nan. How you doing? Okay, good. And she'd hang up, and I'd be like, wait a second, Nan. You know, this phone call doesn't cost like it used to anymore. Like, I can talk to you for longer, you know. But it was her efficient way of, like, just touch base, make sure you were okay. And so I got me to this place of where I felt like if I didn't touch base with those types of family members, my mom and my dad and my sister and all those people every single week, then I wasn't really getting a real sense of what's going on in my family and my community. So that's essential. And that requires. Sometimes I text, sometimes I pick up the phone. It just depends on what I'm getting back. I try to respond with the way that they want to be connected to. My sister's a really busy executive, but if I text her and touch base with her and she doesn't send back a funny gif or a video or something like that, and like, pictures of her, the dog or something like that, I know something sucks. A day later, I'll pick up the phone. So, like, I know something's not going right. She's stressed. Something's going on. So, like, that's a process, like, of connection that I've put into my day. Even though it sounds like, why would you do that? That takes so much extra time. If people don't need you, wait till they call you.

Right.

Like, that's a. That's intentional what I'm hearing, but it's intentional.

Theme of being intentional. Being intentional in your relationships, Being intentional in the way that you plan and run your business. It sounds like that's just the theme. Right?

And my girls are the same way.

Recipe for success. So go figure. When you're intentional, then you're directing the result that you're getting versus absolutely.

Well, I learned from my dad really early on, and he would travel a lot, and he was in, you know, built oil pipelines around the world and things like that. So he's a big oil and gas executive, but when he was home, he was with us, and so that we were the most important thing in the world. So I do that with my young girls, too. So, like, when they come home from school, you know, as soon as I'm off calls or whatever it is, I'm like, how Was your day. What happened? What'd you learn today? What's going on in it? Okay, great. Touch base. Go do your homework. Go. And we'll talk later. And then we get back into it. Later in the evening, we have dinner and we'll talk through that and then at bedtime. And that's my favorite time because I'm a night person. So, like, it's my best time. So we have funny discussions at night. And, like, that time will drag out for like 20 minutes sometimes. And it frustrates Tom to no end. Like, he can't stay. He wants them in bed, efficient, done, gone. Because he doesn't function well at night. He's not a night person. But I'm like, this is my time. Like, this is my time to really hear what's going on in the world and what cool and interesting and funny things do they say that pop out of their mouth. It's like, it makes my next day, like, just even still thinking about it. Like last night, my youngest and I, because she's just losing teeth, read a tooth fairy book and her big question was, how does the tooth fairy know which house to go to and who's lost their teeth? And then she thought about it a little bit more. We talked about some ideas about how that might work. Like, maybe the teeth had, like a sensor in it. Like, there was, like, very creative thought process here. So we ended up with a list was probably the most efficient thing. A list was made and she receives a list and the tooth fairy goes out to the home. Like, I was like, well, she came to a result. Like, this is the most efficient system. But it's great because you start to see how their brains are working. But if you don't concentrate on that, if you just like, this is bedtime, there's a routine. If you don't let that sort of freedom happen to the process in it, within constraints. Right. You do want to get a. Get them to bed before they're too overtired. But then that's sort of how I approach everything that I do. I do meditate, I do listen to my podcast in the morning when I'm putting my makeup on and getting my hair done, you know, cleaning up and doing my hair. Like, that's a process for me. But a lot of it is work related. But it is also personal growth related. Like, it's my way of kind of keeping that in touch.

Yeah, absolutely. So you said you listened to podcasts in the morning. I know that you've got a hack about how you listen to more podcasts. I've heard this a bunch lately. So when you listen to your podcast, how do you productively listen to your podcast?

Okay, so I told you I have no patience, right? So that means I can't take. I can't stand the people who talk too slow on podcasts. So I learned really early on to use a player that allowed me to do double speed. So now if you listen to me on double speed, you'd be really hard pressed to understand me. Yeah, I'm not a chipmunk, but it's. It's still hard to understand me. So you probably can only do about one and a half times. But what I would do is I would speed up the podcast and that way you get through and you have some of the podcast players. I know that Google Podcast is one of them where you can take out the empty space so you can take out pauses. And we're like, on our end in our company, we edit those. But many people don't edit their show. And so there's a lot of this dead space in there. And so their podcast player can automatically take out when there's zero sound. And so it just compresses it. So now what was a 30 minute show is 15 minutes. Like, I can get a lot of time.

It means you can listen to two shows.

Imagine that. Yeah. And so there are a lot of people. We call them pod fasters. There's a term in the industry for the people who do that. And pod fasters also tend to be binge listeners, meaning that they will listen to multiple shows from the same podcast in a row. And so sometimes they'll go through an entire series. So they purposefully pick a show that has 25 episodes or more, and then they'll binge listen to that entire show over the course of a weekend or a week. The average listeners listen to six different shows. So if you're picking up six different shows all the time and you're picking up new ones, they want to catch up. And so typically a binge listen podfasting way is a way to catch up on a show and then add it to your repertoire if it was worth it.

I love that. Like, I just recently heard that, hey, my philosophy is, and that's why I have to interview so many different people, is we all have different tips, we all have different things that we do. And so I started to do that and to listen to it at 1.5 and 2.

I don't recommend it if you're like, seriously trying to learn something specific, like Something detail oriented, like don't, don't do it on fat. But the other thing is don't do it and multitask with something that's not mindless. So I can do that wash dishes or I can do that like I said, and fix my hair and my makeup because it's the same every day. Right. Like, it's not something I have to think about what I'm doing at the same time. But don't try to like work and listen.

Right. Well, that's some multitasking you shouldn't really do anyway because you're not going to retain anything.

Yeah, driving people like drive and listen on faster speeds and they also jog, run on the treadmill, whatever it is that bike, that's a perfect time because you can get the speed up for yourself too. Right.

It's context specific. Right. What it is you're listening to and what it is you want to take away from it and where you are and what you're doing. So what other kinds of productivity hacks do you have that you can share?

So I am an email zero inbox person and.

No, you believe in the zero inbox.

I should have said, well, temporarily zero inbox. Right. The minute I shut it down, it's down, it's shut, whatever that was at. So I believe in that. So what I do though, I mean, don't get me wrong, like, there's still emails to respond to, there's still stuff to do. I get hundreds a day. So. But what I do is everything's flagged, everything's noted as to if I've got to respond to them when I'm going to respond to them, or they were immediately addressed or they were filed and just put away. Or my favorite is Unroll me, which is my favorite tool. I love it. I would do anything like that is absolutely worth every minute it took to set that thing up. It's amazing. So I'm constantly doing that and I'm putting things in and out of the roll up. And so it's like a newsletter at the end of the week. And so it allows me to catch up on the things. That also allows me to like the people who I don't want to offend, but I don't really want to read their stuff either. It allows me to put them into a place. So some of my clients, they think that the world revolves around them. And I do love that I've set that tone. But the reality is, Since I have 320 clients, there's no way I could read everyone's newsletter. So of course.

And maybe once in a while you want to. So you. Right.

So once in a while a headline catches my eye through the newsletter and I'll stop and I'll check it out or I'll periodically do that and so that helps me keep up but not have to be inundated.

Absolutely. Do you use another type of tool within your email like sorted or any of those others that help you to determine there's follow up CC that'll send it away and send it back to you when you're gonna work on it. Like what are they?

Yeah, I'm a fierce filer. So like I mean I address something and I file it or I move it and I file it or I flag it and I still file it so it's not in my inbox. Like that's the key for me. So I'm fierce about that. But I don't want to over complicate like the whole way that it works. And so all my sent mail like it's always there. I mean the sort and find on your email is super useful. Like I don't understand the methodology of the people who like oh no, I have to keep all them. I save my saved and I move them. I just keep my saved and I archive them with everything else so that they're always there. So that when I need to search for something my follow up is going to be there so it's automatically going in the saved folder. So my responses are always there. Everything's always there when I do it from my phone though, which I rarely respond to emails from my phone unless they're urgent. Then I see myself or BCC myself. That's the only time that I do it because I try to keep all my email in one place because for me that's a productivity. If you're constantly interrupting me on my phone then that's not doing me any good. So my phone, I don't even love text messages but people will text me, but I don't even love them because I have a hard time tracking them and following up on them. With email I know I can do it and things won't slip through the cracks for me.

Right, Right. Well and that's an important thing for people to think about is how are they using each of the tools. Right. I'm talking about that to a lot of corporates. Right. With people working from home with the coronavirus it's like when do you use chat and does that make sense? And it's less structured.

Right.

And if you really do need to follow up and you need a more structured environment to be able to handle those as requests or to dos and things like that. So that might go into different type of platform like email.

That's a huge thing. When we have our big team and Our team works 24 hours a day, there's rolling going on, it is really hard to keep up with. So I do have a rule that if they need me to do something that's not an immediate, like they need an immediate answer, then they cannot chat me, they have to email me because otherwise I won't remember that it's in the chat because there's hundreds of little chat messages that go through and you lose it. Same things with texting me. Unless you really need an immediate answer, don't text me requesting something because I'll forget about it, you know. And so that's kind of our rule about it. So chat is for something immediate for getting immediate answers. Email is for something more long term or a more report like type follow up. So we use work chat from Facebook actually.

Okay.

As a part of our team. And we chose that because it was just easier with the team because so many people were on Facebook already and it just made an easier interplay. We had been using a bunch of different programs over time, but the problems were is that files were in different places so everything was consolidating. This works directly, it links to our Dropbox. So when there are files to look at, it's very easily follow through on that. We do utilize it as a team, but it is our sole place is for immediate response. And then we have a feed just like you do in Facebook. We have a feed and the feed is used for us being able to acknowledge people. So do more of the oh so and so reached their anniversary or it's their birthday today or so and so became employee of the month. Right. Like and so it's acknowledgement placement or a mass announcement. So like we made announcements that we were sending out masks and gloves and things to our teams around the world. So they were all getting care packages essentially.

Right.

And so they all knew that was coming. They all needed to update their address and with the system make sure we had it right. And so like those kinds of announcements, that's how we utilize it. So everybody understands how properly to use the different places. When they don't, that's when it gets messy for all of us.

Absolutely. Well and for a lot of companies, they don't have those definitions, they don't have those systems and Structures. Right. It comes back to that. And I don't even care whether you're a big team or even a small team. And I think that sometimes I remember when I was just starting out in my technology business and you know, we were only three people to start out with. Right. You'd think that it was so easy because you're all right there. And there were so many communication issues because we just assumed that each other knew and you heard me on the phones. But no, they didn't. They were working in their attention somewhere else.

So they were. Yeah, my team knows that, like I do not hear anything in the office. Like I have a great ability to shut out everything. So you could even talk to me. And if I didn't look up and acknowledge you, then you are not talking to me. So they know that. So we always operate in that mode. And because I'm married to my partner, my business partner, like if we did that, we'd spend, spend the entire free time we had talking about work. So what we got to is this comfort zone of if I need to know about it, you're going to tell me about it here I need to do something for. You're going to email me and ask me to do a task for you. And otherwise we're just trusting that the other person does it and is on top of the things. And when we need to have a meeting or discussion, we will have it, but not on our free time. Not that we don't talk work. We don't have a restrictive. We learned over the years because we've worked together for, well, we've been worked and married 28 years together on and off, over the 28 years we've worked together. And we learned over time that to be restrictive and say after 5pm we can't talk about work anymore or we're going to go on a date. It's too restrictive for creative people because the creative process, the innovation, innovative thinking happens at any time. And so we do have a sensitivity and understanding between the two of us that when I'm not in the mood or he cannot handle one more word, like I said after 9pm, not good. Right. Like we know not to talk to each other at those times, then we know to bring it up again at a different time. But other than that we just don't have that kind of restrictive level, which gives us actually a freedom to not talk about work a lot because we don't feel like we gotta cram it in.

Absolutely. And that's a key thing for people that Work together is setting some rules and boundaries. And I wanna bring this full circle to what we started talking about was you said that you talk to people about what's working and what's not working. Some very basic, simple things to do is to step back. Right. And ask those simple questions so that you can use that to come up with rules and boundaries and guidelines and systems that are going to support you and your organization.

Yeah, absolutely. I think those are the two critical questions you have to ask yourself all the time, too.

I know. I ask myself all the time. Like, that's. And that's why I asked you. Like, what question do you typically ask yourself? Because that in itself, for people to realize what question they're asking and whether that's productive for them or unproductive can also be a huge shift in their productivity. Right.

And I have a life coach, Michelle Young, who's amazing. And Michelle always says, and how's that serving you? Like, how's that working out for you? Right? So, like, when you use that excuse side of things, like, yeah, this is, like, really stressful, but the minute you say that in there, the response would be, and how's that working out for you?

Right.

And so, like, that's what you need to keep reminding yourself is to, like, push those multi layers of questions on yourself. It's like. And is that acceptable?

Right. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much. Is there anything else that you wanted to share before we end today's show?

I think that people don't realize sometimes there is a comfort. Like, they think of organization as restrictive. Productivity is like, this thing I have to do, but the freedom that you get on the other side of being able to just think about things, of having all this weight off of your mind, to be able to do the things that you love and not be burdened with this stress all the time, that is ultimately valuable. I pack more into my day than most people do in a month, and I'm okay with that because the systems that I have in place don't make me feel like it's a burden on my brain, on my heart, on my soul.

Right.

So finding those for yourself, don't be afraid of that. Don't be afraid of those organizational things. And also don't be afraid to say that one's not working for me. Like, do ones that feel right for you.

Right. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. So where can people find out more about you, your podcast, and the other avenues of what you're working on?

Well, you can find out a ton about us on potatoes.com. our podcasts are big ones are feed you'd brand and the binge factor. I also have podcasts for product designers called Product launch Hazards. So there's a bunch out there. I think the best way to do it is just Google my name and remember that there are two z's in Hazard. So Tracy with no E. Tracy T, R, A, C, Y. Hazard with two z's. And you'll find a ton of content.

She's out there. Awesome. Thank you, Tracy.

You're welcome. There you go.

And thank you all for being here. Yeah, thank you all for being here. Because what your goal and your aim is, how can you take back time? That's the name of the show. And today you're going to take back time through systems and organization. Now the next step is yours. My name is Penny Zanker and this is Take Back Time. We'll see you in the next episode.

Thank you for listening. Today's topic is another opportunity for you to put the knowledge you learned into practice. Tune in again next week for more strategies that will help you have more energy and focus to get more done in less time so you can continue to take back time.