Passive Investing Podcast Lead Funnels: Capital Raising & Audience Conversions with Bronson Hill

Warning, this podcast contains brutally honest opinions. If you're easily offended by the truth about your favorite shows, you might want to skip this. If you crave a no-holds-barred journey into what makes a podcast unskippable, then listen in as we, Tracy and Tom Hazzard, put our expertise and relationship to the test here on The Binge Factor.

I've got another fun show for you here at The Binge Factor. I've got Bronson Hill, Mailbox Money Show. Doesn't that sound like really enticing? It certainly sounds— I'd like to get money in my mailbox, right? We have a lot of passive investing podcasts out in the industry. So when you're really looking at shows that are still doing it, that have been over 100 episodes or really building in and Bronson Hill is one of those people you really wanna take an understanding and listen to what they're really accomplishing. So that's why I've invited him on today. Bronson Hill is a general partner in 2,000 family multifamily units worth over $200 million, and he co-leads a large in-person multifamily meetup in Glendale, California called Investor to Investor. Bronson is the host of the Mailbox Money Show, and he understands the investor mindset. Having spoken individually over the phone with over 1,500 investors and having raised over $40 million for real estate and his ATM machine fund deals. Bronson is the author of the book Fire Yourself: Replace Your Working Income with Passive Income in 3 Years or Less, and is a regular contributor to YouTube and his blog in addition to his podcast. This is why I've had Bronson come on the show, because he's got a kind of a really well-rounded strategy here— email, podcast, website, things that he's working on and things that he's building up and building it up together. So that's why I wanted to chat with him. And everything's at a different stage in process, which is— it is for a lot of you as well. So you're going to hear that. So let's check out Mailbox Money Show with Bronson Hale. Bronson, so glad to have you here and talking about mailbox money. I love that— Mailbox Money Show. It's— it just rolls off your tongue.

It does. What we all want, right? We always want to like show up and now It should be direct deposit money probably because we just want it in our account.

Yeah, we don't really get checks in the mail anymore.

Yeah, yeah, the check— if the check's in the mail, it may not be coming, but if it's direct deposit, you know you got it.

Yeah, that's what I, I like. Every time I get a check in the mail nowadays, it's like, oh, it must be fake, right? So yeah, but it still implies I would like it to come in my email letting me know I received a deposit. That's still a mailbox, right?

Yeah, yeah, totally.

Absolutely. Well, I love that. So the idea of passive invested investing podcasts. It's not new. There's a lot of them out there. And that's really your differentiator though, is focusing on this idea that it really does need to generate regular money. How did you decide that that was the area you wanted to focus on with your podcast?

Yeah, so it really— this— our business is tied up in this as well. So just for me as an individual, I was a high earner. I was making over $200K a year. I was doing medical device sales. And so I was working with mostly heart surgeons and working with their specialized equipment. So I'd wear scrubs and I'd go in and work with them and I got paid well and I was doing it about 30 hours a week. But the thing that I didn't have, Tracy, was really control over my time because a lot of people say, I want financial freedom. What we really want is we really want time freedom. We want to have control over our time so we can travel when we want and be able to— my book, the title of my book is Fire Yourself, right? Replacing your working income with passive income in 3 years or less. So the idea is how do you start developing this mailbox money or direct deposit? How do you start getting cash flow that you didn't have to work for? So a lot of us think, hey, you know, I should do real estate or I should invest, or as I'm making money in my business, I should do these things. But Wall Street typically doesn't provide a lot of cash flow. It's a lot of volatility. Owning a rental house or 2 or 5 can kind of become another job, even with a property manager. And so I started to really study and dissect what are the ways that people actually get passive cash flow. And as Warren Buffett says, make money while they sleep. And so that's really what our business is dedicated to, to helping individuals to learn how to invest in passive cash flow strategies outside of Wall Street.

So when you started the podcast, you're now like 135 episodes in or more, right? As we air this, it'll probably be more than that.

Yeah.

But did you follow the journey? Were you still on it? Had you already achieved it when you started the podcast? What stage were you at when you began it?

So yeah, I didn't start it right away. I started my business first and actually started with webinars first. I would do a kind of an expert-style panel webinar, and that was really effective initially to grow my list. I would invite 3 industry experts that had much bigger brands than I did, and I'd say, just show up and invite your people and I'll make you look great as an expert. And then I'd share the list if they would promote it as well. And so that was a great way to kind of grow my list initially. And then I realized in business, I mean, with this idea of a podcast or a lot of things we have in our business, if you use something called EOS or there's a book called Traction, which talks about creating repeatable processes, right? So once you have done a podcast for 5 episodes or 10 episodes, you kind of know how to do it. And once you know how to do it, you can teach it to someone else. You can create a process document, do this, click here, send this over here, upload it to these guys, or this team does it or whatever. And so you can create that process. So once we created a process for the monthly webinar, then we started creating a process around doing the, uh, we kind of actually incorporated a third-party team to do it. But to me, I didn't start right away, but I, I really was a way that I was able to reach a broader audience as well as just honestly having really high-level conversations with people that I couldn't just pick up the phone and call and other experts in my field as well.

Yeah, I think it, by starting with those webinars though, you were making that connection to community and what you said was key there, people with more influence than you, right?

Yeah.

People who had bigger audiences than you. So you were already tapping into that. And I sometimes think when people start their podcast, hosts start without really considering how valuable it is. They're like, I'm a little nervous about my podcast. So they just reach out to people they know instead of those people that are going to be that step up for them.

Yeah, it's a big deal. I mean, really, and in my business and whatever business you're in, people associate you. And if you have any sort of thing where you're part of your brand, they associate your business or your brand with who you're associated with. So if I'm leading a panel of experts, and this has literally happened, I'll have a call with an investor. I've had now over 2,000 one-on-one phone calls with investors, and the podcast is a great way that helps that, and YouTube as well. And they'll say, hey, I knew this guy and I knew this guy and I knew this guy, but I didn't know you, so I thought I'd get in touch with you, right? So it's just the association. So the more you associate, I mean, there's even a saying in personal development that you're the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with. And I think that's true when it comes to your wealth and your Health and different areas of life and just your personal development. But it's also true how people perceive you. Show 'em who your friends are, I'll show you who you are, right? So it's that idea of if you can, and I think some people ask me, especially in the beginning, like, oh my gosh, how did you get this person on your podcast? How did you get 'em on your panel? And I said, well, I asked, you know, so there you go.

Right. In the early days, it was not as hard. I mean, you just had to ask. I love that. And I think that's really true, especially in your industry, in your niche. There's so many unscrupulous people in investment areas and other regions, real estate, crypto, like all of those different things. And they're all touting something. And that trust factor is so essential to hit too. And how do you build that? Do you actually think about that as you're, who you're inviting on and you vetting them? How are you considering that trust factor that you need to build with your audience?

Well, it's tough. We've had, like you said, over 130 shows now. We've had one guy who, well, I mean, everybody's been pretty good. We had one guy who was, ended up There was a big lawsuit thing and there was like, I don't know that he was necessarily involved with fraud. I think one of his partners was. So that, you know, that's kind of a nightmare thing. What happens if you invite somebody and they're not a good character or something happens? And it's just something that you have to realize, like the podcast space, it's an education space. YouTube, podcasts, social media, you're doing your best to educate people. And so for us, we have people invest in our company or invest with us in these private deals we do. They have to know, like, and trust who we are. And so I remember when I first was getting in this space, I listened to a lot of podcasts. And I remember when I went to an event and I, there was a guy that was well known in the space and I came up, hey man, how's it going? I'm a little bit gregarious when I get to know people, you know, I'm just meeting somebody. And so I was like, I feel like I knew this guy, right? And he like, he was a little standoffish and like, and I realized I had to remind myself like, this person doesn't know me, right? So it's a way that—

I've been listening to him, but he hasn't been listening to me.

Exactly. Yeah. So it's kind of a weird thing. So, but as somebody who's promoting a service or your business or your mission or all 3, It's going from one-to-one to one-to-many. So if I can have hundreds or thousands of people listen to a podcast or a YouTube video, then that's a great way that people get to know me. And so, but it is kind of an adjustment, but I think just the idea of you, what's the reason you're doing what you're doing? Are you really doing it to help people? Are you doing it just to simply make yourself, your own life better? Because I think that comes through. And I think people that get to the next level or way super high levels in their business or their career or other podcasts is they're really doing it because they love it and they're doing it because they love people and they're really trying to serve their audience. And I think if you do those things, I think you'll go a long way for sure.

Well, I'm sure you found in your early days of the webinars that your list was the most valuable thing you were building all along the way. And with listeners, if they're not listening all the way through, they're not actually valuable listeners. So listener growth strategies in podcasting can be really difficult. There's a lot of things that don't work out there. I'd love to know some of the things that you tried that you just thought, mm, that's a complete like waste of time. It didn't do anything to bump the needle on lead growth and the things that you do that you feel work.

Yeah. So I think there's a lot of things. I think maybe having a podcast or again, most people I think have a podcast or they have a business, they have some sort of cause they're doing. It's not just 'cause they wanna talk, there's something they're promoting. And I think as an entrepreneur, which is what you are if you're doing that, is that you're constantly in a place where you're having to put yourself out there and try new things. And you gotta be willing to fail. You gotta be willing to keep trying things. I could tell you many things. We've tried this, we tried this, it didn't work. It didn't work. It didn't work. And then we, oh, this kind of worked over here. And so we started doing that. So it's the idea of having your end goal in mind and continually changing your approach. And so I think it's just getting past the idea that, okay, people are gonna be critical of me at times. They're not always gonna be the nicest. They're not gonna have my best interests in mind, but And I'm actually out here doing it. I'm actually trying. See, these days there's a lot of cheap seats where people can be in an online forum or write comments and be mean and whatever, but that shows you're making a difference. Because if people, if they didn't care or they didn't see you making a difference, they wouldn't be making those comments, right? So I think in a way, I don't know if that really specifically answers your question, but I think we've pretty much stuck to, at least with the podcast, to do a weekly. We have interview guest podcasts. People come in. Some guests are better than others. I try to come in with some preparation, a little bit of research on who the person is and really what they're passionate about, and then to try to get to some of the things that are a little less known because that stuff to me is much more interesting. Or, you know, what's the reason behind it, right? Maybe this is what they're known for, this is what they do, but what are the childhood experiences that shape that? Or what's the story behind that? Or what's the value that they have and why? And I think those are very interesting ideas.

So it sounds like you're putting a bit more of the weight, which I find from a lot of podcasts, which is not unusual, on the guest to do a good job of promoting for you. Do you search for that when you vet them?

It's a variety. I actually heard— I have somebody I know that I was talking with this about who's got a successful podcast, and he said if you invite this top-level person, he's like, they won't promote it. And I've had live events too. It's true, the bigger the name, the less, or they will do nothing to promote it for you. I mean, it still may get a lot of views if you do the right kind of promotion for it, but They typically don't, but there's some people that are maybe less well-known than me or my space, they'll promote it because they are in the same space. And so I think it's something we do consider. I more think about, hey, well, what would benefit this avatar? My avatar is typically 40 to 70 years old, typically a business owner or a professional. They have these type of questions, these type of issues. They're interested in learning about different types of assets. So we've had people talk about land flipping and car washes and oil and gas and all kinds of, and just all different things. That's stuff I'm really interested in. And I think if somebody's an investor and they're looking to grow wealth, those are topics that would be interesting to them as well. And so that's kind of how we've really geared our show. But I think it's whatever you create, whatever kind of content you create, you've got to really keep your avatar in mind because you may think it's great, but if it doesn't serve the people that you want to serve, it's not really going to be good for anybody, I think, or very few people.

Well, and I think that's so often the case because we're farther ahead than our audience and we don't always think How do I make sure that I'm bringing this back in and making— reeling this back to at the stage at which they're at right now?

Yeah, exactly.

Yes.

And sometimes that's a balance too. I run a local meetup as well, a real estate meetup, about 50 people here in Los Angeles area. And in the beginning, I would kind of like break everything down, like to like, oh, here's exactly what this means, whatever. But the challenge, if you do that, then sometimes you lose the people that are further along. So there's a balance of doing it. And I tell people, hey, you know, if you're here, here's something you don't understand, we'll explain a couple of things. But Write it down. And it's always better, I think, in general, when you're listening to a podcast, you're going to a meetup, you're going to a conference, when things are a little bit over your head, I think that's a great place to be because that means you're growing. So I think having something that is a little bit, maybe your audience is here, but just slightly above is good at times because I think that it will give a chance for people to grow and they'll continue to tune in.

So. Yeah, I like that. When we used to do our 3D Print Podcast, we would just sometimes like go, wait, wait, wait, people probably don't understand that term completely. Let's define that. But we didn't dumb it down because if you do, you do lose your audience who's coming along with you and who's been with you for a while. And we don't want to lose them because they're the ones who are probably referring the most people to listen.

Yeah, exactly. And that's a challenge too, I find, to like, as you change and as you grow as a leader to— and sometimes it is a time to make a shift. Like one of the things we've been considering is we have a lot of passive investors that listen to our show that have money that are looking to invest. And then, but I've raised $40 million from retail investors, these type of investors. So There's also someone who's, hey, I want to learn how to raise money too, right? So do I create stuff around them? It sometimes is a similar avatar. Sometimes it's very different. So I've got to debate and see, do I want to do that? And then you got to think about, and so I haven't really fully figured that out, but I just know again, trying different things and being willing to say, okay, let's try this. And does this work? Okay. If not, we can always shift it this way. But you'd also don't want to alienate the people that have been so loyal to you for a long time, for sure.

Well, that's my favorite part about podcasting, the being able to like flexibly test something and see how it does. And if you get a really great response or you don't, then you just don't continue on and it's not set in stone, right? Like it just kind of, you could always delete that episode, right? If it was that bad, right? Yeah, that's no big deal. But I do love that about it. What do you do to get feedback from your audience? How do you get them kind of off the podcast and back to giving you feedback and letting them know how you're doing?

Yeah, so we always really, we think of it like a sales funnel. So a podcast is just simply part of our marketing strategy. We think of top of funnel, just meaning the highest, furthest out there, is social media. People are on social media, they're seeing a post, even on podcasts, but we're always calling them to download this ebook, check out my book, which has a lead magnet in there as well, where people can get some free resources. And so we're trying to get them from just listening somewhere or seeing, or a follower on some sort of social media, to always get them to opt in. Because if they opt into something, then we can basically provide value to them. And then we have them on our email list. And somebody on your email list, is 20 times more valuable than somebody who just listens to your podcast or is someone who is on social media. Because what you're doing is you're really kind of having that nurture relationship with them. You're hopefully trying to nurture them even on a deeper level. And this podcasting is great because it gives you the chance to really have someone get to hear your voice, get to hear what's important to you, get to hear, especially if you're vulnerable and you talk about the struggles and the ways you've just, just personal struggles or struggles in your business. But we're always trying to call people further down so that And once they opt in, and then for our business, we try to schedule a call with someone so they might invest in a deal with us. And then the kind of the bottom is actually when they do invest or they buy a, a course or something from us.

So tell our listeners a little bit about how you do those calls to action, 'cause they don't sound very, I mean, sometimes I listen to shows and they sound very webinar-ish.

Yeah.

Like they haven't changed their call to action, but I can tell that you've gotten some, you must have over time kind of developed them. I didn't listen to like some of your really early episodes, so I don't know how different they are, but they don't sound so like, oh, take action and make sure you do that. They don't have that webinar quality to them. You must have developed that over time, realizing that something different worked on the podcast. What is that? And tell our audience about how you do that.

Yeah, I think you bring up different things at different times. It's great if you have multiple lead magnets. So you have a lead magnet, but it's just something that is a free giveaway. It's a landing page where somebody goes to get a resource. So we have a couple, 2 or 3 different ebooks. We've just came out with a capital raising guide. We have my book, which is for sale on Amazon, but I give the first couple chapters for free on my website so people can go to bronson-equity.com and download that. So I can drop that lead magnet right here on your show. But you know, things like that where it's like, hey, I want to get a taste of this. I want to get a feel for it. But there's lots of things you can create quizzes. You can create 21 questions you should ask before you invest in a deal. You can create lots of different things that people can find value for. And so I think just trying to find a way that's not like, go download my newsletter or whatever, like it's like something that actually people want. And so it's like if I were hearing that, I'd be like, I'd be real— what if they have something cool to say about that specific topic? And if somebody's niched out on your topic, they're going to want it. Like, I have to download it. It's just like, how could I not? At least just to see what it is.

So this is where I'm going to talk about your binge factor right now. And this is what I found was pretty unique because Most of the people in your space, in the real estate space, the finance space, in that investing space, tend to be very programmatic about their offers. But that's not the way that you handle Mailbox Money Show. Like, you have this organic drop-in of this download that they might want to take, this tip, this resource that they might want to consume, the book that— the chapter in the book that they might want to listen to next, right?

Yeah.

Thinking about that, you're going through it and doing it in a way, as a listener, I'm accepting this as you're giving me advice.

Yeah.

You're giving me something special. It doesn't feel like I'm a part of a funnel.

Yeah, exactly. And I think there's a difference to say, buy my stuff or download my whatever. But if you're on a topic and a guest is in there and they say, oh yeah, and we do this, this, this in our business. And I say, well, hold on, that reminds me of this chapter in my book where I talk about this specifically, this, this, and this. And I love how you do this. Right? So I'm doing that. I'm saying, or in my business, when we've talked with 2,000 investors or raised $40 million, we're doing this and this, and this is what I recommend. Like, you're right, I'm giving advice, but I'm also, it's like part of the conversation. So it's a way that like as a podcaster or as an influencer, you can build authority and credibility for yourself if you create resources and then you say, oh, and by the way, this would really help you if you're trying to solve this problem. Right. And so it's a way to be— there's a saying that everyone wants to buy, but nobody wants to be sold to. So it's the idea that like, how do I— and I had a lot of sales experience, but I had to learn over time is this like, people don't want to be sold. They want their problems solved. They want to be helped. So if I can just simply be a helper and, hey, this might help you along your path. And we've got to— and this is one thing I tell people in my book, I hope everybody reads the book because it helps people to get a guide on how to start investing. And some of those people will read the book and they will invest with us. But if they invest with someone else, like, that's great too because they've gotten the message, right? And I think as someone who's in the space, you've got to get to the point where you, your mission is above your profit or if it benefits you or not, right? You've gotta put this other person first and people sense that. And so I think lead magnets play into that of just, hey, I wanna help you. Let me send this to you. And if it's a really compelling offer, you'll get tons of interest on really compelling things.

One of my favorite guests and authors, Shane Snow, said this in his book Dream Teams, which he was talking about, is that When you have that benevolence factor, this idea that I'm in it for whatever, I care about you more than I care about myself, it comes through everything that you do. And it makes me much more likely to download something from you and not feel like this is spam and not going to be useful.

Right, exactly. It is. It's just, it's a way, and this is kind of what has changed. I don't know if this is You know, the case 20 years ago, but it's before it seemed like you had to kind of buy stuff and it would be small ticket, whatever. Now it's like everybody gives stuff away for free and then you pay what you pay for in your business. People pay for the implementation, they pay for your coaching, they pay for your book, they pay for investing or a course or something like that. But you give away your best stuff for free just because it's the right thing to do and you want to help people. But you know, we say we live in the information age, but now it's just like the information overload age, right? So it's like, I'm going to give you all this information, And then if you really want it distilled, then you can get this thing for free or buy this. But again, it's just thinking about the path of if I want to get, what do I want someone to do? Well, for me, I want somebody to invest with me. So if I want that, there's gotta be a process where they get to know, like, and trust me. And I think that goes across not just if somebody's an investor, but if somebody's gonna buy your stuff, they've gotta know, like, and trust you.

Do you do something special with your podcast and how you organize it now that you've got 130+ episodes? It's a little harder for somebody new to come into your show. We're going to hope they binge on the entire series because that's usually likely. But do you have like a short guide? Do you have a resource? Do you have a way at which you recommend, hey, start here?

It's a good question. I really don't. I mean, the way I look at it, there's over 3 or 4 million podcasts out there. There's a lot, a lot of content. We basically, when people join our email list, we do have kind of a sequence of here's what we do, here's where you're at, here's some things you can do as an individual and kind of walk them through that. And then we'll highlight—

do you suggest episodes in that?

Sometimes. Yeah, we will. We'll suggest certain episodes. And to me, I think of, we do video and audio for our podcast. So, and then I do 4 kind of explainer videos a month, just me talking, which are YouTube videos. And so we have about 9 or 10 videos a month, including the podcast on our YouTube, right? So we have people that listen on a podcast platform. There's people that watch and there's kind of a variety of ways people are putting these out there. But yeah, I think it's, we probably, that's one thing we're working on is getting a real, hey, if somebody's new to our stuff, Like, what's step number 1, 2, 3 that they can do?

Yeah, I think that's so essential. The more and more content we get, we've got to help them navigate it, right?

Yeah, exactly.

So you were talking before about making some shifts in it. Besides maybe that, what other shifts are you thinking about your show in the future?

I think what we're doing is working. One thing I'm working on— this is— I haven't really shared this with anybody, but with AI, with using ChatGPT, there's something called a custom GPT where you upload source documents. And what I want to create is I want to create a document that, hey, I'm looking for these 5 things, such as specific stories that they have, specific takeaways, some of their core message relationships that are key to them, things like that. Right. And so finding a way to like upload transcripts from prior podcasts, which you can do through Listen Notes and a site like Transcript— transcription website and upload those in there. And then what it will allow is it will allow you to just basically distill in a document, these are some really core takeaways without you having to listen to all these podcasts and figure, do all the research yourself or have one of your team do it is you can very quickly be able to source that. So I'm still sorting that one out. I'm hoping to try to sort that out this week, but it's ended up being kind of a bigger project.

Have you made a custom GPT yet? I have. It's fun. Yeah. Isn't it?

Yeah. Yeah, it is. It is. Yeah. So I think there's a lot there that especially now that ChatGPT is, it takes real-time stuff. It doesn't just take stuff from a year ago. It's actually real-time. And then, yeah, you can create. I actually did a personal custom GPT where I put in all my core values, my affirmations, my things I wanna accomplish, the ideal, my book in there, but all different, just like to have an answer. And when I go through with somebody, I can kind of like dialogue with me about stuff I'm going through and decisions I should make. So it's kind of cool.

I'm glad you're having some fun with that. I really do personally believe that the amount of wonderful content that we have as podcasters is way more valuable to the AI system than they even recognize right at that moment. And so it is kind of my personal mission, and I'm working on that behind the scenes in everything that I do, to make sure that they understand that, realize that, recognize that, and more importantly, give you credit for that. Yeah. Because it's a shame if all that information just gets muddied into the 3 million, which is mostly junk podcasts out there, because there's only 300,000 that are active and any good at any time.

Right.

So when you really think about that is we wanna make sure those 300,000 are getting noticed for the podcast that they're creating. So that's kind of my personal mission on the AI side of things. But I love the idea of you creating that sort of navigation process that could be personalized for someone to find the answers for what they're looking for. So if I'm a retired teacher in the Midwest, what would be the ideal path? Which episode should I listen to?

Yeah.

That could be really cool.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. There's stuff we're just figuring out now too that said if you take ChatGPT and you were to put it through an IQ test, it'd have 155 IQ, which is a 1 in 10,000 person IQ. And so if you had an extra brain, what would you do with it? Right. And so this idea that we could, and I had actually was at a workshop and I was talking about this, like, what are the biggest problems or challenges in my life when it comes to, or the things I want to accomplish in personal, in health, in family and different things. And then, well, I should be spending 30 minutes a day just kind of going through and spending time with ChatGPT talking about this stuff. So, you know, eventually you won't be chatting with me.

New perspectives you didn't know.

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah, for sure.

So exciting. Well, I'm sure that when you're doing your podcast as long as you have and being financially minded and investment minded, you're always thinking of the return on investment. Do you actually measure the monetary return on investment or the intangible return on investment from your podcast? And if so, what is it?

Yeah, I mean, I think about it. I think there's a few things it does, like for sure. I think when you're starting out, even now, like if there's someone that I respect or I want to connect with, I can use it. Hey, come on my podcast, whatever. And I get to ask them a bunch of questions. And then sometimes, like I was a guy that I respect a lot that I heard from a couple of my investors. I said, I'm gonna invite this guy on. He's a young guy, but he's done some amazing stuff. And so I had him on my podcast and then he said, oh, I'm gonna have you on mine. I said, can I, you know, would it be benefit to come on yours? He said, yeah, that'd be great. So, Again, it's kind of a way that we can use. I found the podcast swap kind of idea is a great way to get on other podcasts, or if you have a really good connection with somebody to be able to say, hey, let's create another brainstorm session either here or after the session of how, who I can introduce you to that'd be helpful, right? And then you get on other shows and it's helpful to be able to grow both your brands, which I think is really fun.

That's really great. I do think that that's my personal favorite part is the creating this bigger network and being able to Satisfying my curiosity and getting someone interesting that I wouldn't get to talk to otherwise. That is my personal intangible.

But yeah, that's fun.

Well, what's next for you and your business? You've got your book launched, but what's coming up for the rest of this year besides ChatGPT and maybe a custom one?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're just continuing to do more deals. We're finding things that are really exciting in real estate, outside of real estate, just business, helping people to generate cash flow. Passively. And then we did our first conference. We have a monthly meetup. We did our first conference this fall with about 170 investors. We're planning for next, probably next February with 1,000 people. So we're starting to plan that. And of course, that's a big—

scale that up.

And then one of the parts of firing myself is I've been able to try to take more time off. So I'm going next month to Everest Base Camp and in Nepal as well as in India. On the way back. So I'm excited for just doing a little travel and continuing to work hard and play hard. And so, that's exciting.

Well, Bronson, I'm so glad you have your podcast, Mailbox Money Show, Passive Investing Podcast. So fantastic. Thank you, Bronson Hill, for being a podcaster.

Thanks, Tracy. This is a lot of fun. Thanks for having me.

I'm so glad we talked about the idea of listener growth being lead growth, because too often we forget that when we're here podcasters, we're all concerned about our stats. And we're thinking about our listeners and Ola's like, oh, this show has 100,000 listeners, but does it have 100,000 leads? Like when we've got 100 really valuable listeners listening every single week, they're doing more than passive listening. They're reaching out to us, they're investing with us, they're joining our mail list, they're asking us for more. That's our ultimate goal here is really lead growth, not just listener growth, for most of us with business-style podcasts. So be thinking about this as you're working through things, because unless your model is making passive money in advertisement and sponsorships, then we just need big listener numbers. And it honestly doesn't matter whether they convert for us. They— we want them to convert for our sponsors, right? So that is its own model, very, very different from the lead growth model, which Bronson Hill has kind of magnified here. Because I mean, He's very specific about his model, about the investor types, about the listener types, about where he's going with it, because it has a direct correlation to the investment deals he wants to do and the education in the space that he wants to do. So really thinking about that and then understanding that things may shift over time for you, just like they have for Bronson, right? And your return on investment might be different in your first 50 episodes than it is in your second 50 episodes. It may be different in your third year of podcasting. It may be different when you discover that your audience isn't quite the audience that you expected, the ones that are reaching out to you, those ones that are turning into leads, and you want to change your show and grow with them. And that's really, I think, the key to making it continuously work for you is remember that it needs to be sustainable over time and it can't just be the same thing it was when you started it. To where it is now. That's just not a sustainable model in podcasting because the podcasting ecosystem changes. Your listeners have different needs as they grow with you, especially the ones that are continually listening. And your new listeners have a lot of things that are happening to them. There's a lot of noise in the world. And when Bronson was starting with mailboxes, right, mail was easy. I mean, how often— I don't even think I look at most of the stuff that comes in my mailbox. I just throw most of it away. Never even reading it. Isn't that the same thing with our email now and with our chat? So when the world is changing around you, your podcast does too. And that's one of the things that I appreciate about Bronson Hill and having him on the show here is that he's willing to talk about how those shifts happen. So take a listen to Mailbox Money Show, check out Bronson Hill, and be sure to go to podcastersunited.org where we have links to everything. So it makes it really convenient to all of the guests on The Binge Factor. And all of the topics that I cover every single week— well, we cover— my partner and husband Tom Hazard and I cover in Feed Your Brand. So if you didn't know about Feed Your Brand, make sure to go check that out. Both of them are at podcastersunited.org. Thanks everyone for listening. I'll be back next week with another podcaster here on The Binge Factor.

Get ready to binge on our next podcast deconstruction as we uncover the hidden mistakes that can make or break a show. Want your podcast to have that irresistible binge factor too? Go to podcastersunited.org for a treasure trove of free resources and live expert coaching. Don't let your podcasting voice fade out. Renovate your show today before your podcast becomes a money pit and not a money maker.