PR For Podcasters: Mastering PR Strategy With Public Relations Review Host, Peter Woolfolk

Wish you were one of those influencers with raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority Magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazard shares strategies, tips and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor. Now let's join Tracy as she explores how to rise above all the digital noise with the Binge Factor.

Hey everyone, welcome back to the Binge Factor. I'm Tracy Hazzard and I have Peter Wolfolk on Today Public Relations Review podcast. I love that title because it really encompasses just everything that it's about in it and and it's hitting some valuable keywords in the key areas where he's an expert. So I always love that when it's self explanatory, it makes it easier for someone who's searching for help in a particular subject to find you. And that's what they've been doing with Peter's show for quite some time. It was launched in January 2019 with a single 10 minute monologue on SoundCloud, and he's been continuing to refine the strategies of the podcast, generate guests from across the nation, do ongoing promotional activities for the podcast, and he's now interviewed guests from 49 states, 10 foreign nations. HE listenership of 153 episodes, covers 149 countries across 3000 cities globally. HE covers things like promotional videos, social media posts, he uses them to produce visibility for each episode and he follows guidance from all over the place and synthesizes that into what he really knows, works for publicity and promotion. The podcast itself has won multiple PR awards and just received notice. It had won another award from the Nashville PR Society and a gold Stevie Award from American Business Awards. It just amazes me that Peter has been kept going with. Sometimes when you have a really niche podcast, especially something that's in your business, it gets dry. But it has not gotten that way. Peter still has the same energy he had in episode one and I completely love that. So I invited him on the show because I completely wanted to have a discussion with someone who's been in public relations for 30 years and shifted over time and then encompassed podcasting within it because too often I find that publicity experts are not so good at content generation themselves and they pod feed much faster than the general public. So it was really interesting to see how long he's been doing this and how amazingly well he's done it. And at the time that we recorded, he was well over 150 episodes. So just such an amazing show. So we did have a little bit of difficulty and my team's gonna do the very, very best, but please be a little forgiving. There was a little bit of weather issues and so the audio had a little bit of difficulty on Peter's end. I think my team has probably done a fantastic job to fix it. However, please be a little gracious about it. Hopefully you can hear everything that Peter had to say. Thanks so much, everyone. Let's go to the interview with Peter Woolfolk. Public Relations Review podcast. Peter, I am so glad to have you here. I love talking public relations because I've had a lot of really good experiences with public relations throughout my different businesses over the years. So I'm so glad you have a podcast on this and you have the Public Relations Review podcast. Now you have a little niche. That's what I want to talk about. Why you named the show what you did and is it really targeted at that niche of really talking to agencies and public relations people in the industry?

Well, process of putting together the podcast because even though I have some backstory, so before I did anything, I read as much as I could and one of those things is your title should reflect. So I decided on, you know, thought about a few things, the Public Relations Review. But then I discovered there's also new magazine. So that's why I added podcasts as a, as a part of that. And specifically what in developing this I said, well, if I'm going to listen to a podcast, what do I want to hear? And my answer to me was, I want to hear things about public relations that I can use in my daily practice. I'm working on somebody's project or helping somebody that makes sense to me. So that was the way I designed it so I could talk to other PR people about a lot of different things, whether it's crisis communications, media relations, anything that happens to be and VR platforms, the different platforms that you can use to help with pr. You know, I use a lot of them because it helps with my podcast, it produces my transcript for social media posts, you know, little things like that. So it really cuts down on the time it takes me to finish producing it. The little visual, audio, visual thing that you can put up on YouTube, the, you know, 60 minute thing that talks about what it is, all of that I use. So that's why I use the combination of public. But I wanted to talk about podcast because that's what I know something about. And the big Thing also, I learned about podcasting is sort of stay in your lane, you know, you want to talk about something, talk about something, you know. You know, I don't want to be all over the board.

So true. I love that, Peter. Stay in your lane, right? Stay in what you do. But it also really helps focus the show and focus the audience at who you really want to reach. And you're working to reach agency owners and public relations professionals, correct?

That's right. Students. I find out I have students as well. I've gotten some emails that some guy, I think he was working on master degree, saying, listen to the show quite a bit. It's helped me quite a bit. So I said, well, I love to be doing something right.

I love it. A podcast master's degree.

I've had people call, you know, I've had. Matter of fact, just the last week, I got a letter from a lady in Brazil. She wants to be on a pod. She has a pr, a company down there. She wants to be on a podcast. And I said, hey, wait a minute, that's a good idea. Let's find out what the differences are, how do you work down there, and so forth. So we're going to talk next week and hammer out the details and make.

I love that. So now we met on pod bench, if I'm not wrong. Right?

I think that was it. Yes.

So that must be one of those tools you like.

Well, I'm always looking for information because I have to have a part that I produce my product roughly every other week. It's not something I do full time, and I have to decide, okay, oh my goodness, who am I going to have as a guest now? So I'm looking everywhere for a guest. I'm looking everywhere for issues. If I read an article in a tweed or magazine and I like it, I'll call the office, see if I can get them online. And done that quite a few times. Matter of fact, where artificial intelligence comes in, I read a couple of them. I couldn't get in touch with the author, so I used the text to audio format so I could actually have what was actually written strapped into a podcast that I gave them from. But it saved time and I got what I needed and it works. So, you know, a lot of different ways to use this and get the information. Now with the new website, because it is SEO optimized, I'm getting letters and emails from people who want to be on. You know, a lot of them don't get on because you got a lot of people promoting Folks to get on podcasts and seeing if they just have mail that goes out, anybody that'll open it up, fine, that's okay. But if you're not able to talk about what we talk about, I can't have you on the program. And it doesn't make sense. I'm talking about public relations. You want to sell those two things just.

Yeah, absolutely. Now you are producing, I'm going to call them like short blogs. Right. From your podcast episodes in your website, is that. Have you seen a boost in the SEO from doing that?

Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. I'm now getting emails because people can leave emails on the website. You can also leave a voicemail on there. So, I mean, it is. I am seeing a lot of benefit coming from it. I think it's called Pod Page. That's the one that I use. I mean, I really, really appreciate what it has done. It tell me, you know, for a little description that. That you have, you need how many characters should be in that and so forth and so on. So I really am enjoying.

Well, that's good. I'm so glad to hear that. And I love it when people revamp their website and they, you know, they really give it. What I love about your site is it's really focused on the show, but it's also really focused on the audience. So you're clearly speaking to the right audience throughout the whole sections, the about page and all the other areas of it. You. And that reflects in your podcast as well. So I love that niche focus that you have on everything that you're doing and how you're creating that. And, you know, when you're doing public relations, there is a. I'm going to call it a branding consistency that I think we probably try to get your clients to do better at. And you're doing that. You're modeling it really well. But, you know, I think sometimes we Podcasting and the public relations branding side of things. Right. The branding side of it can sometimes not always work so well in that podcasting can be really intimate. And so there might be this difference between like, I'm going to call it over branding that can happen sometimes in that and that doesn't blend well with the podcast. So you seem to do both really well. You have the branding consistency that you do on your website and in the style of your podcast, but the episodes themselves are really intimate feeling.

Well, that was the whole idea, you know, that I wanted to talk specifically to PR people and folks who might have an interest in PR and maybe some marketing because they're some overlap there, but I didn't, because if I go outside of that, that's not where I have my experience or know what I'm doing or have done. I've been in public relations probably close to 30 years, and at some very high levels, I was in the Clinton administration. And, you know, at that level, you need to know what you do. I don't know what you're doing. But even though to do it and do it the right way, so bring those kind of experiences to the audience. And I also find out there's still room for me to learn some of my very big, I would say my biggest downfalls to date. I got an email from a lady, she was a professor at a college and somewhere on the West Coast, I think it was George Fox University, if I'm not mistaken. And her simple question was, why don't you have a episode on Christian public relations? I started scratching my head, and whenever I have an issue like that, I Google it. Christian public relations. Sure enough, Forbes have written an article on it. Oh, my heavens. So I call, I tracked her down, called her up, and that to this day, that is still the largest download I've had in my five years.

Well, you know, this is interesting because I'm going to call it spiritual and religious podcasts are some of the largest segments of the number of podcasts that regularly produce. They're the most active segment. And that's because obviously they have, you know, services every week and, you know, so they're. They're a lot better and more consistent than the rest of us podcasters at publishing, but it's the biggest segment. So you having your show on that, you've got listeners out there who are producing podcasts who want that.

All right, here's how this goes full circle. Not only did I have the late George Fox on there, but I said, well, let me have someone else on. So I have a minister here in Nashville. I asked him, would you be willing to join and talk about it as well? He said, fine. So he's on there as well. Michael Hart also belonged to something called, I believe it's called the Religious Communications Council. So he has asked me, to make a long story short, I am now a judge for some of the podcasters, for those people who produce podcasts. And quite honestly, some of them are very, very good. I was taking notes on a couple, so I've been, well, you will have.

To send some of your winners out my way so I can interview them on my show. So we'll do A real cycle of referrals here. I love it.

I'm always open to it too. That's what I'm saying. And how it has helped me grow in that. I've also been a judge for PR News Podcast. So, I mean, they just called and asked me what I was doing. I said, fine. I'm a little worried because I didn't know how much, you know, how involved it was going to be. But when I got it, I said, wow, this is not as difficult as I thought it was going to be. So two or three days I had it done.

Oh, that's great. Well, I love that. I think that's so great that it's like leading to other things for you. So podcasting has really led to other things. What other. I'm going to call it like hidden return on investment. Kind of things have happened to you and things that have occurred that you didn't expect from your podcast.

I guess the biggest thing is to be a speaker. I have been invited to speak to some actual. Some PR chapters around the country. Probably spoken to more public relations students and universities. Temple University, Eastern Michigan University, American University. I even spoke, I actually recorded once for the University of Argentina down there. So, I mean, I really like that idea. On occasions locally, I've actually gone into classrooms to talk to PR students. So I'm thinking now, because I'm the one now becoming a public speaker about public racist, particularly to PR people. So that has opened the door. I actually had an article written, I forgot what it was. One of the PR newspapers about me and public relations. So that happened probably about two years ago. The podcast has won a number of awards. Matter of fact, I'm up there last week that I won an award for the national chapter. I made two separate nominations on things, but so I don't know if I got two awards or just one. So we'll find out later on.

Well, congratulations. You'll have to let me know so I can update it in the blog post when this episode publishes. Because you'll probably know by the time it publishes here from the time we're recording. I love that. That's. Congratulations. Great. I'm so glad to hear there is that residual value still going on. Because it's the first thing that I found for my podcast is, as we talked about before the show, it got me writing a column and for Inc. Magazine. And so. And then my speaking engagements were off the chart. So it was one of a couple of the first things that I discovered from podcasting as well. Well, I don't want to miss out on asking you this question because I know our audience, especially you know, our audience, is full of podcasters and they're gonna wanna know what you did specifically to promote your show that you feel was the most valuable. So how did you generate some PR buzz about your show that you felt was really valuable? What do you think is working on that side of things?

Well, I'll tell you, I know it is working because one of the other questions that I ask myself is, once I record a podcast, how is somebody going to know that it's out there? You know, because I said I was brand new. My very first podcast, I know what it was. They also said, set a date. If you're going to launch it, set a date, do it. So sometime in January 2019, it was, I think I did a five minute monologue just so I could meet the deadline.

Everybody does that. You're not alone. So I'm so glad to hear you. At least you kept up with your commitment to yourself. Good job.

So I put it up on SoundCloud and I said, okay, now what? So I started asking myself, you know, one of the, how is somebody in New York or California, how are they going to know I'm here? So what I decided to do, I actually went online. I started going to some of the PR chapters around the country and asking, is anybody interested in being on a public relations podcast? I got a couple of takers. So I said, well, maybe that make it interesting. I said, well, if you come on, I'll give you a copy of your episode so you can share with your neighbors and let them know, you know, by way of your social media that you've been on this podcast thus far. In my 150 episodes, the only state that I do not have, Indiana.

Okay, anyone out there in Indiana in public relations, in any kind of chapter association, you better reach out to Peter.

I've gotten nine, I've done interviews with people in nine different countries. Obviously I had. With 150 some, I've had some duplicate states, but, you know, that's okay. But that one city, right, the one state, I'm still looking for that, but I'm still moving on. But just. Oh, and the other thing I did, I also give them a logo, podcast logo, so that you stick it up on your website or whatever social media that you've been on the podcast. And as I said, right now I see them when I see on social media, I took them out because in some of these podcasts they want to know what have you done? How do you know it's working? So I clip them out and say, well, here's what so and so said about their episode and include that in my validation for.

Well, you know. And I think that's really a strategic choice. Like sometimes, too often, I wouldn't always recommend the style of logo that you have, but yours looks like it. Almost like an. I'm going to say it looks like a word like you, you know, like a publication and an award. So why wouldn't a PR firm want to put that, or an individual who is a publicist want to put that on their website? It really does tie to being used like that. So. So I think that was strategic and smart of you.

And let me say that I did see a tape. You did. And I did make a change. Now I modified it. I did put my picture on that. Because when I heard you say, well, yeah, I have a picture on that, I started looking around. As a matter of fact, I stopped to look around, look, like every time I saw a podcast logo or something, it had somebody's picture on it. I said, okay, fair enough. Boom. So I got it on there.

Well, and see, here's the thing is, like, look, when you are in a particular industry where they're trying to promote individuals and corporations, right? Like they have both, you need to then make sure that everything that you do is about that sort of brand authority promoting. Right? Like I'm the self brand. So if you're not promoting yourself that way, then that's not good. But for the most part, I generally recommend most podcasters do not put their picture on their cover art. But yours is such an exception because of the industry and niche. It makes sense for you to have your picture on your cover art, I believe.

I think it was probably about, oh, about a month ago, I, you know, a short time ago, I decided, hey, that doesn't make sense. All right, So, I mean, yeah, it.

Makes sense for you, but it's a rarity that I say that. Like I. Everyone here will be like, Tracy, you would say never to put your picture on the COVID art. But in your particular case, I think because the audience that you have, they're at promoting their clients, so they want to see how you're promoting yourself. And if you're doing that through the podcast, it's going to resonate with them.

Well, you know, and I'm always looking for new things. You know, I've had students on because I was reading a PR newspaper one day, I happened to be in Nebraska and I Said, looking for story ideas. So I just put in Nebraska Public Relations. I see what pops up. And one of the stories that popped up was, says Nebraska PR students win more awards than the professionals did. I said, what? What's going on down there?

They're doing a better job. They better find out what's going on down there. I love that.

When I got to track them down at the University of Nebraska, I must call the president's office. How can I get to the PR people? Blah, blah, blah. That sort of good stuff finally got to the instructor and she told me what they did. I said, would you guys be willing to be on the podcast? I said, oh, well, we love it. We love it. And we did that. The school newspaper did a huge piece on it. So I got a copy that out of there because, you know, I could use that in some other award submission or whatever. But it works. You know, people like the idea of the fact that they are being recognized. Oh, I can help them tell this or that they were on the podcast and helped them do what they do well.

And I think there's an interesting thing because you have sort of that, I'm going to call it the older school model of pr where you come from, you have this base in it. You understand where we were coming from when we were pitching magazines and newspapers and local press. It was hard and it was a different model. But when you carry some of those same, I'm going to call it basics, the skills that are underlying there. And then you apply that to the new technology of a podcast and you don't forget about those things. And my partner and I did a coaching call about some of the underutilized, low cost ways to promote your podcast. And some of them were these basics in pr, like go to your college and put it in your college newspaper and go to your local papers and tell them about your show and go to your local chapters like you were talking about of your associations. One of the podcasters I interviewed very early on in the show, in fact, the show was called something different. It wasn't called the Binge Factor back then, it was called center of Influence. It changed names and he was on it and he had a podcast. He no longer does it, but it was called the Not Old Better Show. And so it was geared towards people over 50, but mostly people who are retired, but who, you know, were looking at life from a different way at over 50. And so he got featured in the AARP magazine as one of the podcasts for retired persons to listen to. And it Got him such a boost because that is such a big publication, actually. And it was this little article with just a list of podcasts. Like, it was like not even a really big, you know, feature, just had a list of podcasts, what the name of the show was and what it was about. And he got jumped overnight to starting to get to 50,000 downloads on his show. Right. An episode on his show because of that magazine pickup. He saw the bump. And I mean, I think that's the part of it, that too many podcasters treat it like this is all digital, but it has its roots in traditional media as well.

Well, you know, I was glad you said that you mentioned the magazine, because this is probably, I'm going to say, maybe about three years ago, I was looking at the public relations open forum that they had been different things, and I saw this lady saying that she wants you start a new communications magazine, and she's looking for people who would like to maybe write articles about it. So I said, wow, maybe I should talk to her on the podcast to find out what the magazine is going to be about, blah, blah, blah. So I sent her an email because the email address in there, and she said, fine, I might. I can do that. Oh, by the way, I'm in Ireland. Oh, my goodness. Get back to you. But I checked because I do a lot of things on Google Voice. Said Google voice is only 10 minutes. That's fine. Let's talk about this. We got it done. So I think, well, I think probably about four or five months later, she said, hey, look, can I come to podcast again and talk? I said, okay, well, fine, here's the deal. I'll have you on the show, but can I get an ad in your magazine now? She said, okay, fine. She said, do you want a full page or several quarter pages?

That's awesome.

I said, well, quarter pages have been separate edition. I said, yeah, I want the quarter page.

Love it. That's so great. Like the trade, like if we don't ask, we don't receive, Right? Such an important thing. Well, here's the thing. So before we, like wrap up here and get to a few things that I normally do on every show. So I want to get to your binge factor. But before we do that, I want to ask you. You know, I have to say that I think that the PR industry in general has unfortunately been inundated with some bad models of business. Right? Bad digital marketing has, like messed up the reputation of the public relations. So we get pitches that are not coming from real publicists that are coming from hired farms that are out there just producing like guest requests and guest submissions. And it's not really that high touch public relations, where you've checked out my publication or you've checked out my show and you know that you have a guest that's going to be a right fit for me, it's not like that at all. And so because of it, I'm going to ignore a lot of public relations submissions.

Right.

And that's unfortunate. What do you think people need to do better when they want to submit a pitch to be on a podcast? What do you think they should do?

Well, having been in radio as well, one of the things is you need to listen to what the podcast is about.

Thank you for saying that. Listen, I mean, really.

Because I'm telling you, the latest one that I got when the lady wanted to call to talk about college tuition finance, I'm saying, hold on a second, let me just process. And maybe in some indirect way there might be a relationship with all practical purposes, it was not so. I learned that earlier on the radio that if you want to get on a show, talk about something the show covers. Public relations has a wide range of things that you can talk about. I've talked to people under the government public relations and police officers who have public relations programs for their office. It's a wide range of things. So don't come to the show. Ask me you want to be on the show. I've had PR people that say, I'd like to be on your show. I said, okay, well, fine. What do you want to talk about? I said, well, public relations. Okay, well, what specific you have? So, you know, come up with something that you've done this in our program. I like it when people have solved problems or overcame some sort of hurdles or maybe you've developed a program. I have one lady who's, I think she helped people find newspaper reporters in different cities. So if you've got an article you want to separate a or publishing Wisconsin or whatever, she can help you do that. It's a business for PR people. So be able to talk about the subject matter that the podcast covers. I mean, that's the basic part of it.

Yeah. Have a right fit match. I think it's the number one thing because those that are using these tools that just blanket send emails out to every single podcaster is ruining it for everyone. Because I hear from a lot of podcasters lately that they are taking less and less guest pitches and only going to the people they reach out to. They're not even reading their email. They're not even accepting submissions anymore because so much of it is just a lot of noise. And so it's hard to shift to and find the good stuff.

It wastes my time. I mean, some of them I just don't respond to. But there are a couple of minutes just didn't make any sense at all. I just said, you know, specifically, this is bunk pr. If you can tie it in some sort of way, come back to me, let me know. But, you know, I don't hear from them anymore. But you're right, they just want to send them out and do what their class know that they're sending stuff out. But the waste of time in some cases.

Well, I want to mention your binge factor before we go today because, you know, that's what I do. So I'm here to. I always call it. Sometimes I'm psychoanalyzing your show, but in this particular case, it's more like a review of your show, just like you do. And so in listening to the Public Relations Review podcast, what I really do love is that you don't overcrowd your episodes. And that is something that people with a niche topic tend to like. They meander too much and they try to cover too much. You really are focused. You've got your guest on for a reason, and you stay focused on that. That is a really good gift. And I think it really shows your public relations expertise in that when you're out there pitching things in the public relations and media space, you really gotta focus on one thing, right?

You know, clients expect results. You know, the fact that. And you gotta be careful about it. I've done a lot of things. I mean, I learned a lot. You know, I learned the radio because I was able to go to a station and they trained me and they didn't pay me while I was trained, but I learned how to do radio. I can. I can do the recording, I can do the editing, all that other sort of good stuff. I had another job. They hired me because I had radio, but by the way, we gonna start a satellite system. And I learned how to uplink it and downlink satellite programs. I mean, this sort of stuff has helped me along the way. I didn't know anything about Congress. I knew how to reach out to newspaper reporters, a TV reporter. But what I also found out is I didn't have to know everything about every piece of legislation. I knew the major pieces of it. But if a reporter wanted to know, I could just go down and bring up the person who wrote the legislation. No problem there. They talk to you and give you all the information you want. So I learned a lot of different things. The bottom line is, how do you solve problems for your client? How do you help them achieve the goal they want to achieve? And that's. That's always been my driving factor that, you know, I'm going to listen. I'm working with the health department here in the Oak region. I mean, I had to have the script of a video we produced translated into Spanish so the guy could put it in Spanish on the bottom of the screen. Well, I didn't know how to do that, but I found somebody who did, and they're as happy as they can be. They didn't ask you, did you do this? No, but I got it.

That's wonderful, Peter. I'm so glad that, you know, I think that when you're doing and servicing, like, that's a really big thing. So, like, your clients benefit better from getting on the right shows and doing the right things because you're also a doer. Right? You're also in it. And I think that that's a real gift to your client base. So I'm so glad you're podcasting. Really glad. The Public Relations Review Podcast. What's next for you and the show?

Well, one of the things I've started doing in terms of using artificial intelligence, I produce short videos. And when I say video, they could be 30 seconds up to a minute that talks about what's in this forthcoming episode. And then what I do is I send it out to LinkedIn has a big PR section, Facebook has two PR sections, and I'm talking about reaching, you know, half a million people or more to say, look, here's this podcast. It's coming out on July 5, or whatever it is. And in some cases, I might even include the link to it so they don't have to go searching for it. But the visual part of it attracts people's attention. I like doing that. As I said, I couldn't get a guest in town, so I had to come up with something. That's why I read an article. I do the textual voice thing, and I said, well, fine, I give an overview of what it's about and put it on in there, let it run and say, okay, fine, thank you. Put my clothes onto it. So I'm going to find ways of getting it done. Because, again, this job is like any other, that you have to get things done. You have to solve people's problems, and that's what I have to do. And I've done a lot of things over many years at a certain level. You know, when I was in the US Department of Education, that's where I used my satellite experience, because I said, we want to get this program to all junior colleges around the country. Peter, make that happen.

Figure out how to broadcast and how to get it out there. I love that. Well, I am so glad you are getting the Public Relations Review podcast out there. Peter Woolfolk, thank you so much for being on my show today.

I really enjoyed this. Maybe I should go into the video too. Maybe I will a little bit later on. Tracy, thank you so much. I've enjoyed it and perhaps we can do this again.

Wonderful.

One of the most valuable things that I think Peter brought to me in this conversation that we had was really about the power of chapters, of using associations and PR chapters from a national organization. So not only using the national organization, but using the local chapters as a part of your strategy. We've done a couple of coaching calls on publicity, and one of the strategies that we brought to you again and again is this idea that in the publicity strategies of having something like your local community, like the college you graduated from, your alumni associations, those kinds of things, even though they're small and localized, you'd be surprised at the reach that they have out there or the high conversion rate that they have. And that's what Peter really brought to mind when he was talking about how he utilized that as a strategy. But it's not just a strategy of where you share stuff. It's also a strategy of where you interview people. Right. There's that exchange, that give back, that I need to give something to get something right. And Peter just understands that intimately that that's what part of great promotion strategies are. Great publicity comes from a give and take. And I love that he also really looks at it as like, the magazine side of things, print side of things, that he looks at it as doing more than just being the podcast itself. And I think that that's so critically important because sometimes the people that you want to publicize, it's just not in the format that they want it in. And this is something that has happened to us. We have a newsletter, an AI newsletter at Podcasters United, that the binge factor is a part of. Right. And we have some partners that all they do are videos. And while we can plug them into the newsletter, they don't do as well. They don't have as high attraction as our written articles do. And that's logical because if you're receiving a newsletter and you're checking it out, you're obviously a reader. Same thing if you're a podcast listener. You're obviously going to hear for, oh, somebody has a podcast. I'm going to select that first before I'm going to select their YouTube. Right? So there's got to be synergies in all of the different multimedia choices that you've made, and Peter understands that. So even if your interest is solely in short, short form, video, is that enough for you to get everything out there? And that's really where this sort of multimedia strategy and then figuring out different promotions that work and different publicity that work. So public relations review, podcast, go listen to Peter, listen to some of the great ideas he has, and understand from him how to create a great publicity strategy for your show. Thanks, everyone, for listening. I'm Tracy Hazard and I'll be back next week with another podcaster. And this podcaster I'm super excited about because I've been trying to get her on the show for four years. Finally got it. So stay tuned for next week.

You've been listening to the Binge Factor Podcast.

For more information on podcasting and videocasting.

Success tips and tactics, please go to thebingefactor.com and be sure to listen to.

Our other show for podcasters called Feed you'd brand. If you'd like to be interviewed on.

This show as well as featured in Tracy's column, please go to thebingefactor.com guest and apply.

Sam.