Pricing By Design: Formulas for How to Profitably Price your Products

Protect your brand, product or invention from the hazards of consumer product launching and go from idea to product to big brand. With guidance from retail product design and development experts, Tracy and Tom Hazard. Get the insider secrets to put the right things in the right order with the right resources so you can out design, outsource and out profit your way to retail success.

Hey everyone. Welcome to Product Launch Hazards. Pricing by design, the art of pricing. This is going to be one of those where you think that pricing is a science because it's based in math and you've got all of these data and pieces of information and it is so not. So for those of you who don't know me, I'm Tracy Hazard and I am the founder of Product Launch Hazards. And I have been struggling with this just like everybody else for decades. How do you price your products to get them to sell? It is a design, it's an art, it's a science, it's math, it's like all of those things put together. And so some of it is based in human psychology, so that's where science comes in. And some of it is based in just really good practices, things that have worked for decades. And some of it is based on history in that way, and some of it is based on just finessing things and trying it and that sort of design of experiment. And. And some of it is based in just seriously understanding your consumer and what drives them. So I want to talk about a little bit of all of those things, but I also want to really talk about this in terms of making sure that you can make some smart decisions about whether or not you're pricing your products to be profitable. And that really has to do a lot more with a business plan. And so at the end of the day, a price is great, but if that price is not sustainable, if it isn't going to become something that is profitable for your business, should you really be introducing that product? And so these are the questions that we ask all the time as we go into it. So I've got a form, little form that I did for a presentation that I did to some innovative entrepreneurs in la and I'm going to share this with you. This one works for both service businesses and product businesses. So it's a little more general, but it also gets you to start thinking about your prices and your structure and how things work for you so that you can make revenue so that you can be profitable. And so that's kind of why I like to go through this. So one of the things is that, look, I Like to have a really big clear revenue goal. I look at this every year. Sometimes I even look at it on a quarterly basis or a monthly basis, depending on how our business is growing. Because if you're in a fast growth, you need to adjust those numbers all the time. If you're in a seasonal business, you have to have different goals for fourth quarter than you do for first quarter, right? So thinking about that, if you have a seasonal product or seasonal line, these are important things to have. So you have to set that timing for your goal based on your type of business and where you are in that business. So if you're in the startup mode, if you're in fast growth mode, if you're in a mature mode of business. So looking at that, and that's one of the very big things to think about. But thinking about it from this perspective, when you have a clear, big revenue goal. I want to sell $10,000 a month on Amazon. I'm just picking 10,000. I think that's a little low for some of you, so it should be like $100,000. But let's just say I want to sell $10,000 on Amazon this month. Well, if you know your product's price and you can back that into the number of units, then you have a better indicator as like, is that even possible? Can I sell 1000 units a month? Is that possible? Because the top seller in my category only sells 100 a week, so that would be 400amonth and I'd be not even half of my goal. So that's not going to work for me. That's not a big enough business. Or that particular product in its isolation is not enough business. I have to grow my product line. So having measurement and indicators and really analyzing the viability of your product introductions based on what you're seeing going on in the marketplace, even though yours might have a lift because it's more innovative, that would be great, right? But you want to really look at it from the. Is this realistic? So starting with this big bold revenue goal, whatever that might be for you, a million dollars on Amazon, $10 million on Amazon, Shopify and mass retail. I would say if you want to be in mass retail, you got to be looking at it as $10 million minimum per product. And you want to be at $100 million company in relatively quick amount of time of being on the shelf somewhere because it's hard to stay there. So you got to get to a scale at which you can stay there. So those are just some metrics for you guys that I'm throwing out there really quickly here, welcome to have a Call With Me Call with Tim Bush. Timothy Bush is our expert in mass market retail clubs especially. So if you want to have a good metric on where you are and where you're going, I invite you to have a call with him, schedule some time to meet up with him, or have a discussion with me. You're always welcome to schedule time with me. If we really need to talk about the strategic plan for your business. Pricing is a good mix of that and important, but it also is going to dial back to the product itself. So clear revenue goal, bold. Yes. Because you want this to be a business that's worth doing, right? At $10,000 a month, the amount of time you have to put into maintaining your listing and doing those things that make it it and make it worthwhile and then be looking at the Profitability off that 10,000Am I making 10%? Am I making 50%? What am I making off of that? Those are also whether or not that is a lifestyle worth living, is that a business worth doing? These are some things that you have to consider. And granted, I know that it's different in a startup stage, but you really have to be thinking about that, is that can I achieve my ultimate bold revenue goal through everything that I need to do, and will that goal be profitable for me, make it worthwhile for me to take time away from my family and other ways of earning income and all of these other things that might happen to you? You really need to take a good look at that. And it's going to dial right back into the pricing, I promise you, because we're going to get deep down in it because you start to analyze that. So looking at that and saying, okay, if I've got my clear, bold revenue goal, and the next thing is if I had this current pricing or the same pricing as my competitors. So that's a way to do it. If you don't have a product on the market yet, you're going to divide that big goal, as I mentioned before, by the average and standard price of the number of the units that are out there. So if you've got a product that is a bath mat and it sells for 20 bucks a piece, you're going to divide your $10,000 a month by $20 and you're going to come up with a number of units. So you're going to do that math to figure out, okay, I have this number of units. Remember my measurement before, I'd have to sell a Thousand units. Okay, if I have to sell a thousand units now, I need to look at that and say, what's the average unit sales? What's the average dollar sales? Is my dollars in line? And take a look at it either from the dollars or from the unit side. Whatever makes sense for you and for your model of business and for your product. Because sometimes it'll make more sense in that the average product out there is less than what you are going to be selling yours for. So you kind of have to look at those two things, keeping in mind that there is a direct correlation between price and volume. Higher volume at lower prices exists across every product category. But that doesn't always mean they're profitable and it doesn't always mean they sell as well as they could. So that's a little bit of a mystery. And when you're already selling, you can say, okay, if I had more money to spend in marketing, I can boost this up because my conversion rate is working for me. So these are numbers at which you can forecast out and say, I can do better than this. But I caution you on that, at this stage of the game, I recommend you just look at what's average going on in the marketplace and can you at minimum do that? And if you do that, is it worth your time? That's what we're really looking at. Is it worth your investment in tooling and inventory and all of those things? That's what we're looking for. Can I make a living wage off of this? Can I make a business off of this? So after you do that, you're going to say, okay, 1,000 units a month is viable. I have to sell them at $100 a unit. Okay, great. Or I have to sell them at $10 a unit, whatever your pricing is, then you say, okay. Now let's look at that from my cost of goods perspective. So your cogs, right? If you've heard that term before and you want to dial into total cost of goods here, including your landing costs, and if you are not familiar with those terms, I invite you to go talk to and listen to some of our logistics experts. You can listen to Jimmy Tran, Paul d', Souza, you can go and talk with them. Abby Duffield is going to be on the platform really soon, if she's not already. You can talk to any one of those about what total costs mean for you. Landing costs and landing costs means I've got it here in the US I paid all the duty, all the taxes, all the logistics costs. I've calculated my warehouse Costs for the amount of turns that I anticipate. Remember, if you're turning, you're going to sell 1,000amonth. But you had to buy 5,000 units. It might sit there for five months, right? So I've got five months of warehouse costs built in, whatever that might be that you need. That's your total cost of goods. Do not make it just the cost the factory gave you. This is going to give you a huge mistake and give you a false sense of security that you have a good number here. So we were going to base that on total landed costs. What we are not going to include in here at this stage of it is anything that is marketing. So in other words, Amazon's fees, because you don't know which place you're going to sell it. You might sell it on Amazon, you might sell it on your own shop, you might do a direct response marketing campaign. Whatever those things are, it's going to have a difference based on the channel of what you're selling. Eventually, if you were selling into stores, it has its own variable cost factor. Okay, but we want to know exactly what the product is costing us, so we're going to start there. You don't want to forget that you have to amortize tooling, make sure you've got your equipment, all of those things that you need within that. The only thing that I'm going to say is take your marketing out and separate it. You want to look at it, but you want to look at it in the buckets of where it is because you will pay higher marketing fees on Amazon. They take high fees, as you may have heard from many of our Amazon experts. Right? Can sometimes be upwards to 35%. But you want to look at that and say, okay, I make this much money when I'm on Amazon, I make this much money when I sell direct and I make this much money when I'm on the shelf. And you look at the different costs. And remember too that landing costs may not be factored into your on the shelf. Many, many of our clients who sell into Costco, the products purchased straight from the shores, from the port in Asia and go straight to Costco. So Costco bears the landing cost, clients do not. That's why I want you to have these numbers separated. So understand the manufacturing costs, the factory cost and what your profit margin is. Added to that, if you're going to go straight from there and somebody else is going to bear the landing costs, knowing your landing costs, your warehousing costs, your distribution costs, making sure that you have all of these buckets outlined and you understand the difference in the channels in which you're selling. So that's your. Where are we? What are our total costs to do business? What that doesn't include is like, overhead, right? My time, the time for all the people that might be processing orders or developing new products or all of those things. Okay, so this is going to get you to gross profit, not net profit eventually. So if you don't understand the difference, gross profit is before you take out all of those costs, right? So we're going to establish and we're going to make sure that we haven't, like, run out. Like, we totally are already out of money. We're not making any money here. But remember, this is still in isolation, right? Because we haven't sold a unit. We're forecasting, we're checking that out. So we definitely want to make sure that we have good margins here in a gross margin sense, gross profit sense, whichever way you want to look at it. And there's a difference. I'm not going to go into the details on the difference between margin and profit and looking at that because that's not what we're about here. We're about trying to decide do we have the right price for the product and should we be selling it. That's really where we're going with that. And so all of this factors into that. So bold revenue goal, figuring out how many we need to sell each month and dialing that into how much it costs us to make this and produce it and get it into our warehouse and then looking at that, marketing it on top of that. So what are those marketing costs on it and analyzing where we fall out, what's the end goal of that? Now here's where some art comes in. So you've got a lot of time, you put into things. When we look at it from a design perspective, when we're designing a 3D printed product, it costs very, very little to produce them. We don't have to hold inventory. We can make it to order. Right? So there's a lot of advantages. There's a lot of cost factors not considered in there. The plastics are cheap, the machines might be expensive, but they're already sunk in cost to our development and our design time anyway. So we might put a factor on that. But other than that, it really doesn't cost as much to produce it. But it certainly cost us a lot of design and engineering and development time. And so we have to take factors in for that because we have to recoup that. Right. Or we can't stay in business. So we like to develop that as part of our process. So innovation costs, development costs, time costs. Yes, we put in an overhead factor for that, but it's kind of a like, how do you develop it? So I created a complexity form. It's called my pricing complexity valuation. I don't know if you could see that. And so what we've got is time to design plus time to build or make it. Because there is machine time that happens in 3D printed. But I like to also have an X factor in there because an X factor is how cool is it that design? How cool is that innovation? And does it add a bonus amount for me? Because this is something that we mistakenly do and we fail on the art side of pricing. We fail to give it relative value. Right. Pricing isn't just about how much it costs to make something. Pricing isn't just about how much the market will bear. Sometimes it's based on emotion and perception. We pay a whole lot more for an iPhone because of all that development time and energy that's put into it. I personally don't think it's of value, which is why I've never owned an iPhone. And that's my opinion, that's my decision about it. But I think that it's overdone in wasted time in design and development. That doesn't matter. I disagree with the philosophy of the design staff at Apple. That's a philosophical designer thing. That's my way. So I don't buy it because I don't see a direct correlation between the time that they spend and the money that they charge that is valued to me as a consumer. And that's what you're thinking about, right? Because brand perception is simply that perception. It's how someone is seeing you, how they perceive you, the value that they think you have, not the value that you think you have. And that's where market research testing can come in. Side by side testing can come in if you've watched my Prosper show video or you've seen anytime that I talk about the lettuce example. So I have a slide about the lettuce example. I'll make sure that that image gets put into the blog post. But I have two heads of lettuce side by side and one of them is made from this amazing sustainable, low amount of water used aquaponic process. And it's very, very cool. Completely innovative early testing of it. And they wanted to go into a Trader Joe's, a local Trader Joe's and sell their as a test their aquaponic lettuce right next door to the organically grown lettuce. And on the tag it was going to say 50% less water used in the farming of this locally grown, like all of those great things, right? That sound like really great features to someone who might be looking for that. And shopping in Trader Joe's like you care about that. And so they did that, but then they wanted to sell it for a dollar less than the existing head of lettuce to make sure that they could get people to buy it. And I said that is a huge mistake. Why? Because immediately you're setting up this perception that it's cheaper than and in people's mind, when something is cheaper than, it must be substandard. So if you've got a value, if you put a lot of design time, a lot of energy and a lot of innovation, like technical resources that took you years to develop this farming technique, the last thing you want to do is sell it for less than to have it be perceived as cheaper than. Because also when you're talking about food, you get into this question of if it's cheaper than, it must taste worse. It must having no water mean maybe it's a dry, right? Maybe it doesn't taste good. So these are things that you have to be thinking about in terms of can I raise my price or can I be equal to the highest price item on the market or above the median, above the average? Can I be looking at that? Because I can command value because the market perceives it as valuable, not because I say that I am, not because I put hours and hours of design time in, but because they see that that time and energy sets me apart from all of the other people in the market or the feature that I've added, the patent that I hold, all of those things sets me apart in the marketplace. It's obvious, it's visible and it's valuable to them. And if you don't know that, this is a good time for you to go see Lara Hazard, our market research expert, and do a side by side test of your product and make sure that you understand what people think, not what you think, what they think. What if someone who's willing to pay money plunk down their hard earned cash on your product, find out why, what do they think? Is it valuable? What's the value point? Do they see the value that you put into it? And so time and energy is where that value is defined, right? Time, energy, innovation, some of its brain power it's intangible the amount of time and energy we put in our inventions and our innovations. And so you want to see if you can command that. You cannot go into it saying, I am going to command that without checking this, because the only thing that you will be able to do later is if your assumption is wrong. The market doesn't see that perception like you do. The only thing you can do is spend more money to educate them, and that is a costly venture. That is the way people run out of money before their business takes off. It takes a lot longer. It's where someone else comes in and says, wow, they overbuilt this thing. I'm just going to do this one thing that people care about. And yes, theirs is not as good as yours, but they make it and you don't. And so we don't want that to happen here. So we want to spend a little time and a little energy and not a ton of money either, market testing it and checking that number, because that matters. And also because if you just say, I'm just going to go in as the same price as everyone else, because the metrics show that on Amazon and all of the data says it. And if I sell exactly the same price, if I sell this lettuce the same that it is in Trader Joe's, then I'm going to be fine and it'll be okay. But then you left money on the table, you left profit on the table, and you didn't set your brand apart as being more innovative and more valuable. You could have had that added profit to really help you grow your business faster. So that's something. A mistake we don't want to make either. We don't want to undersell ourselves. So this is really a factor. This X factor is so critically important to assess in your business, and it cannot be your decision on that. I hope I've made that really clear because I'm like, hammering this one home because it's the biggest mistake I see. So now the next thing we want to do is check market competition. So we've got our bold goal, we've got the number of units, and we haven't killed it yet. Right? We said, okay, we have this bold goal, we can do this number of units, we believe it's viable. Our cost of goods are in line that this is profitable enough that we should go forward. Our marketing costs means, yeah, it's not as high a profit as we will, but the more we scale, the better this will be. Okay, great. We're still in line, we're able to be profitable. We've now assessed that we can charge 10% more because we have added innovation value and the market agrees with us. Okay, great. That's going to help our margin growth and it's going to help give us a little more breathing room to market. Well, okay, great. Now let's double check this against the market competition. And that isn't just the market competition on Amazon, in Walmart, or the one place you are selling right now or will be selling. This is market competition that may not even be direct or head to head. In other words, I am going to be spending money in a store. I can spend my money anywhere. So even if your product doesn't exist, there are other options for me to spend my money. So thinking about juvenile products, baby products, okay, I can go in and I can say, okay, new parents, they just had a baby. New parents have priorities in terms of how they're going to spend their money and I have competition. So if I've got where I'm going to bathe my child, I've got this new bathing thing. I think there was a group that came out with this whole new bath thing that you stick in your sink and it keeps the babies from slipping and all of that. Okay, But I've got priorities of money and I need a crib. So I've only got so much funds. I'm going to either buy a crib that's safe, that does all of the things that I need to do that the baby's going to use every single night. Because I got a sink, I got a tub. I could buy one of these cheesy little seats. I don't need to buy the expensive bath thing. I'll put it on my registry and maybe I'll get it. These are the things about where people are going to spend their money and the prioritization of that and that we need to look at in terms of flooding, the market competition and comparing yourself through the market competition. So it's not only just your product head against all of the other products that are exactly like yours or similar to yours. It's also what else in the category is their dollars being competed for and how good and how aggressive are those and how much are those things selling? So you want to really look at that. If you're going on a shelf, you want to think of it this way. If you're looking at the shelf at Target and you've got all these things laid out on the shelf, how much of the space are you going to Be able to command, like where is your little slot of that? And look at that side by side compared to all the others. And how competitive a space is that? And so that's something that you really want to consider and check out because you really do have to have a competitiveness sort of assessment. Is it going to be hard for me to gain attention as a new brand among these very, very established brands? And with that, that may mean that you have to slow your growth projection, that you have to slow your brand perception growth, the money you have to spend on brand growth, your overall brand and your reliability and all of these things, and not just on the innovation of the product. So for some of you this is a factor, for others it's not. But those of you who are with a big brand growth path, you want to be the player in juvenile products. You want to compete against other toy companies. Melissa and Doug, right, really classic, done a lot of wood toys. They started with a couple of small, small items and managed to like take over that sort of more natural, I'm going to call it wood based products that are all throughout Target right now. And they did that and it didn't happen overnight. It was slow growth. So they spent a lot of money and time growing their brand and not just their products. So this is where you have to kind of look at that factor for yourself. Because brand perception growth and product growth are actually two different marketing spends. And so you need to be thinking about that here as well. Do I need to spend a bit of money growing my brand to be competitive or can I do this through complete direct response marketing completely on Amazon? Can I grow there? Can I finally get in with a buyer through the natural path of things and that they're going to spend money to grow me? Doesn't really happen like that, but it would be nice if it did. But maybe it will if it's in line with where that buyer and the company direction is going. So that's another factor as well. But not looking at your competitive landscape for where the dollars are being spent is a mistake at this stage, right? Because you, you do have to assess a timeline to things, right? Because you're timed to being profitable, you're timed to getting to your bold goal, right? Is a factor based on competitiveness and about marketing dollars, how much money you're going to be willing to spend there. So stacking up, are you low, Are you high? What's the difference and what might be the way that we can bridge that difference through marketing through other ways or what might be Our stepping stone. So we lower our goal, but we make sure we're converting and then we raise it up, and then we raise it up and then we move into different channels as we go through. So thinking about all of these things, if you already have a product, already have a service, or already have any of these things and you're thinking about raising prices, this is a very scary thing for most people. But you're about to launch, maybe you haven't launched yet, and you're looking at all of these numbers and you're looking at all of these factors and you're thinking price too low to really make enough money here. Where are you going to go with that? Like, how are you going to do that? So I think you want to list out, and that's the bottom of this form here that I have is that you want to list out the risk factors of being too high. Because I would say being too low has a whole bunch of business killing factors. Right? You'd just be out of business in no time. But being too high, it can slow your business. So we really want to make sure we react, that we look at that we see what the factors might be. You do tests, lower and raise. So some of the things that I've seen go on behind the scenes and without outing any of my clients or anything like that, because I can't and I won't. But there's been some factors in times where, you know, you have some leftover product, like colors that didn't sell or just items that maybe were sized a little off and they don't sell. It happens. Right? And what they usually typically do is think of them like closeouts, like these things are the dogs. I'm going to sell them super, super cheap and I'm going to get rid of them. And I'd like you to consider doing a test for selling them for more. They're limited edition. The unique colors, they don't have to know that they're what's left over. You made a special run. Try that. Because what happens is when you lower prices on some, you down the value of your current. And so that in a line mix can be a mistake. So thinking about these things as like, you want to get rid of them, you want to get them out of your warehouse. And if you've got an expiration date on something that's totally valid, but keep in mind it could down your brand altogether. And so if you have an opportunity, raise the prices on those small amounts incremental. A buck more, 50 cents more, whatever that might be because people who want the special color, they see it as a perceived value of higher, and they may go into that. So this is our perception in raising prices, right? Our perception in raising prices. Small amounts, not gigantic amounts. You go over 10%, 15%, depending on the original price of the item, and you sort of make people question, is it as valuable as that? But just a small amount more makes them go, hmm, there must be something better here. I don't really have time to investigate it, but a buck's not going to kill me, and I like the color better. I'm just going to buy this one. And so you tap into something that gives them just this little inkling that it may be more valuable. So raising prices can always be a good thing. They can also be too high too fast. We've seen that happen in, like, drug markets, right? So EpiPens and all of those things that came into the market and what did they do? They raised the prices too much, too fast, too often. And it got to this point where the thing's like 400 times what it used to cost. And it all happened in such a short period of time that they did not establish a value difference over that amount of time. So that's definitely a wrong way to raise prices. But there is a right way too. And the small incremental raises with added value. Understanding that limited editions, added features, new information, you don't have to add stuff to your product. You can add information like a bonus video on how to use it, an instructable on what to do with it, how to clean it, whatever that might be, adding that bonus in there, that also helps. So these are things to think about. So if you're finding that you're not as profitable as you thought you would be, and you're thinking, I gotta raise the price, I'm concerned about whether or not the market will bear that. Let's talk about what we've got in terms of perceived value, where the value is, and where can you add some value there for them? I know this is a lot to go over, and I'm going to have this in our resource section. So you'll be able to download it. You can fill it out. It's like a form once a year. We do this for ourselves. We do it as an overall business. Now, granted, we're a service business who also has products, right? So it's a little combination of things. But we look at it in terms of our services we provide, and we make sure that this is in our overall planning cycle. Of our business and are we meeting our goals and are we achieving these things and are we achieving the profitability we've set for ourselves? You know, businesses as small as you are, you can't afford to come to the end of the year and have your accountant look at everything and say you made 1% profit this year. Because that's a whole lot of work you just put in over the course of the year. A lot of time away from your kids and your family and events that you've given up. Because I know you entrepreneurs, you work day and night and so you're constantly working, you're always on, you're always in your business. It's a firefight and it's got to be worth it. 1% is not worth it. I question 10%, to be honest with you. And I see a lot of seller businesses, Amazon seller businesses and product businesses and inventor businesses that barely eke out 10% a year in profit. I question that. Especially if you're only making a million dollars a year, you could do better at a day job and do this on the side. I mean, it's really, really hard to be having that as your full time gig and not making enough money. So figuring out this pricing strategy and making sure you've got this right from the beginning, rather than just diving in and sort of throwing a dart at the board and saying, that's the price, I'm going to make it, or relying completely only on the average selling price on Amazon, these are the wrong ways to go about it for long term profitability and you may find yourself in exactly that situation at the end of the year. My metric is you should be making around 20 to 30%. If you're not making 20 to 30% now, some products in a product line mix may be less or more because they're driving people in. So lead generation and draw loss leaders, we call them at mass market, retail and other places. So things that draw customers into you might be making 0%, but the upsell onto the others, all the other items, they're sticking in their cart. All of the other items you're working on and selling, your average across them should end you up around 20 to 30%. That's your net. If you're netting out there, you're doing really well, you've got a viable, sustainable business. And if you're getting towards the 30%, you've got enough money for growth. And that's a factor too because the more items you add, the more product, the more development, the more in that design world you stay in the innovation world. That's where the apples of the world, right, they make most of their money because they add this tremendous value and they reinvest into innovative new products. They don't rest on their one. And so you've got to be in that world as well. And having that extra cash, having that extra 10% of profit, being able to be reinvested and giving you 20% at the end of the day for you and your family and the business as a whole to stay in good cash flow for the next year. This is essential to creating a business. If you're here to create an inventor business, that you employ people in your local neighborhood and you have a great growing business, this is the number that it takes to make it sustainable. 1% is definitely not. It makes it not worth it at the end of the day. So this is why I urge you to really rethink your pricing. Because your pricing is such a critical part of that strategy and your pricing is a really big indicator as to whether or not you should do a product, should this fly, should it go? And so that also at the end of the day, this is a gate for you, a measurement gate, something tangible. Because we get so caught up into we love this product and we want to make it fly. We want it to go against all odds, but we have to be paying attention. Some of the indicators and pricing not being able to hit your target pricing, not being able to make competitive pricing and not being able to make profit on that pricing, these are indicators that you really should go back to the drawing board and or trash it and start on the next one. I'm going to say recycle it, put it on the drawing board, don't get rid of it altogether. Maybe now is not the right time, but in the future you find a better factory, you are able to make it market dynamic changes and you can make more money. So be thinking about all of those things. And thank you guys so much for joining us here at Product Launch Hazards. We're really excited about all of the new members that are coming in. We're going to have a lot more experts joining every single week, so make sure you're checking the office hours tab. And thanks again for joining me. This has been Tracy Hazard on Pricing by Design.

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