Secure Big Podcast Guests: High-Profile Interviews With Targeted Podcast Guest Outreach

This is Feed you'd Brand with hosts Tom Hazard and Tracy Hazard.

Welcome to Feed you'd Brand. I'm Tom Hazard along with my co host Tracy Hazard. And today we're going to talk about how to land bigger podcast guests. And you know what? Securing really good guests that are high profile can be very, very important for your podcast in helping it grow. However, this is one of those things which I don't think it means what you think it means. I'm going to go back to Iningo. Montoya is always in my mind from the Princess Bride. Before we really talk about this, I think we need to define what a good podcast guest is. And sometimes I personally think less can be more. Traci, I know you've had some experiences because you've interviewed more people than anybody I know, honestly. And not just for podcast. I mean, many, many podcast interviews. But you also interviewed people just like a podcast for your INC column when you did that for four years. And you've also interviewed people like on the red carpet at events like, what was that, the Grammys or something? I forget. In la, when you interviewed John Truant.

The pre Grammy event.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But the thing is, is that bigger isn't always better. And I think that we have to really be careful about do we just think a celebrity is going to be the answer and we're going to go viral? Like, this is the. And it doesn't work like that. And the reason it doesn't work like that is because the bigger celebrity someone is typically the more team they have. And honestly, the more incompetent they are in the sharing process, the less personal it is. And so it actually fails 90% of the time. And so you think you're going to get this big bump and they never even see it. You have this great rapport and you maybe you do a great interview and it's really good, but there's no boost on the other side of it. And so if you were expecting that, that's the wrong way to go about it. So I want to say that bigger is also in stages. So when you're starting your show, it's a different level of big than it might be when you hit 100 episodes or a thousand episodes, because we got a client about to hit that. So when you do these things, it's a different level of bigness that you need. That's not a word.

But okay, because you made me laugh, I have to do it. So little joke, who is Bigger? Mr. Bigger, Mrs. Bigger or Mr. And Mrs. Bigger's baby.

I know this joke.

Go ahead. The baby is a little bigger. Sorry, couldn't resist. Dad joke. All right.

Terrible dad joke.

Terrible dad joke. That's why I had to let you.

Deliver it, because I'm so not delivering that.

No, no, no. But. But you. You just made me think about that. But no, seriously, though, perspective is really important here, and I think also to set realistic expectations for yourself and for your show. Because I have had all sorts of people come to me and evaluate their podcasts and a power podcast appraisal. And they say, hey, I had this really big guest, and this guest has 750,000 Instagram followers, and I got no bump in my listenership.

We hear it all the time. That's why we're telling you this. Right. This has nothing to do with getting listeners to your show. A big guest won't necessarily do that.

It's very true. And so, Traci, let's continue. I really want you to share your wisdom, and it truly is, I think, your wisdom. This is one of your areas of specialty. And while I've done many podcast interviews, it's not, I'm gonna admit, not my area of specialty.

So I wanna wrap up the story of what I was saying before about the celebrity guests. So a celebrity guest that means something to your niche is going to be much better. So Tom was referring to the red carpet. I interviewed John Travolta on the red carpet one time, and I wrote this article about him for Inc Magazine, and I thought the PR people asked me to do that red carpet interview. So I thought, this is going to be a boost for my column. Like, even though my column was about products and innovation and technology, like John Travolta, like, it's going to be a name. I can put it on the title. Like, it'll be good. And because his PR firm was the one that asked me to be one of three people selected from all the press that was there to do the interview, I thought, okay, they're going to do a good job of sharing it.

They'll push it out.

They'll push it out.

They'll promote it. Yeah, right?

And I write it. I send them the links. I do everything that I'm supposed to, and Crickets got nothing. So I finally got someone to answer me over in his team and said, hey, guys, why'd you choose me? That's the question I asked instead of why didn't you share it? Right. Which is what question most people ask. Right. I asked, why did you choose me? And they said because our job, the publicity firm's job was to get them less video and more written articles because.

They valued the written.

They wanted to add it to his website or his IMDb or they had an internal reason for wanting. All they wanted was the link. They didn't care about what that was going to do for me. So that's what you have to understand. The bigger team, they have, they have a purpose that that team, something that team is trying to achieve. And you're a means to an end. That doesn't mean that they're going to reciprocate. So that's why we're really cautious about these bigger guests, right? We want to make sure that they're actually going to do what we want them to do. So when say bigger, we need to be in the early stages looking for bigger authority. That's how I always say it. So if you're in your first 25 episodes, we want bigger authority in our niche.

So, Tracy, with that, what you would, what I'm hearing you say, and I want to make sure we, we're clear on this for our listeners and our viewers, is that bigger authority than you, that you're stretching and help, that person is helping lift your authority higher. Is that correct?

That's exactly it. We want to have it so that. Imagine if you were doing lots of. You are stage speakers, right? And so you're on stage and the keynote, the person who anchors it, who opens up or closes the event, right? That's the people you want. So the event is focused in your topic, whether it's health and wellness or finance or whatever. Bitcoin doesn't matter what it's about, right? But they're focused on your topic and the people they choose for the keynotes, those people are bigger than you and those are the people you want on your. Because when you're then seen as the host, you're actually have a slightly higher authority to your audience there. But out when you publicize the episodes, you're seen side by side and it raises your authority in your niche and brings you up to their level.

That makes a lot of sense. It's kind of like what they hear about, you know, what is that old Napoleon Hill thing that, you know, you, you tend to be achieve the average of the five people that you associate with the most. So if you're associating with people with low authority than you, that's really going to help you increase your level of authority, right? And with your podcast, there's a little bit of the same thing that goes on here, Right?

And so if your goal is to get more listeners, then you have to raise your authority, your value. So if I'm searching for a health and wellness podcast and I see that you're at the same level as JJ Virgin, I'm thinking, oh, that sounds great. I definitely want to listen to this show. I'll check this out. So that's one thing we too many times associate, that I just want my name associated with that person, and that's great. But if they're always beating us on the first page of Google because they have higher authority than us, our name's not going to get where it needs to go. So we want to build them up together, and we want to have many, many people in that niche that we cover that help raise our authority so that we will get higher in the placement as an authority in health and wellness or finance or whatever our niche is. Right? So that's why we want to cover more than one. Right? We want to cover as many guests as we can in a higher authority. That's our goal with our first 25 episodes. Now, I know many of you have podcasts that are there to serve an audience. Like you interview all of your book authors, or you interview all of your podcasters. Like, you know, we could do that. We don't do a show that way for a reason, because I have higher authority than all of our other podcasters. So it wouldn't serve us to do what we needed to do by helping them. That doesn't mean that we don't want to help those podcasters. So we have to find other ways to do that. So if your show is geared towards that, then your show is geared towards that. You don't need to bring in a higher authority. But what you do want to do is bringing the best of your client base, the best in your potential funnel, the best book authors, the best speakers, whatever it is that your funnel is. You want to bring the highest case studies. Think of it like that, the highest value, stories of success. So you do want to vet them, and you want to front load your show with them. That's what your 25 episodes are for. So when I did the Binge factor, I would do people who had 100 episodes or more, because that was a sign of success, right? I stuck it out. I must have achieved something. And the belief from the listener was, you must have gotten value from your podcast. So there's value there. There's value in podcasting, and that's the message I wanted them to do. Because I wanted to inspire them to keep going. Right. So I only took someone who had a hundred episodes or more. Eventually what I discovered is that I needed people who had 500 or more because otherwise we weren't getting news stories. And so that's when you look at it and you say, oh, my next hundred episodes or my next 50 episodes, I need to shift this to make it even more elite or I need to cover more topics so you think about who you might invite for those reasons. So bigger may change as you go forward.

That's a great perspective. I like that.

What's your thought on that, Tom?

I like that a lot. I like how perspective over time, as our show evolves, that you. There are steps and stages. Right. And maybe it's once a year, maybe it's at a. As you're approaching a milestone of a hundred episodes or a thousand, whatever that ends up being that it's time to really think about what kind of guests you're going to have and even what kind of value you're going to provide the listeners and what kind of value you're going to get selflessly for you out of continuing this podcast. Right. And so I think that makes a lot of sense. And I would think, Tracy, as you achieve some of those milestones, 100 episodes, 200 episodes, whatever it is, you have more credibility as a podcaster and have an easier time attracting better guests. Is that true?

Yeah, you do over time. And so I know that's why it's difficult when you're doing your first 25 episodes, for you to. You think you need really big names because that'll tip the scale. So that's the second kind of big you need. So if you need a certain level of name in order to get the guests you eventually want to interview on a regular basis, then get the best anchor you can. And you really only need like two or three of them total in your first 25 episodes. You don't need a ton because you can keep name dropping those same two, three people, and it will work. Right. So come on my show and come alongside so and so. Right. And so, you know, think about, again, that speaking model. That speaking model is allure. How many times. And it's happened to me where people come to me and go, oh, I didn't know you were still speaking. You were good at. I'm going to this event and you're speaking there. And I was like, no, I spoke there three years ago. And I go to the website and they're still using my picture on it and really in fine print, it says past speakers were, past guests were. And come alongside with that. And that is that model of you get some really good guests and that's how you attract the, the funnel people, right? The people who want to be like them. That's where your funnel grows. So if you're looking at that funnel model, you do want some high value guests, but you only need two or three to name drop.

So, Tracy, that's a really good point. And I remembered one of our longtime customers, Dr. Diane Hamilton, on her website for her podcast, which is called Take the Lead, features three episodes of really big name guests, right. Even before you see the player for her show on the page and it's Interview with Guy Kawasaki, Daniel Goleman and Steve Forbes. And in her niche, those are really big names and that helps her get other really big names when she goes to ask others to be on the show.

Right? And you could get a lot of mileage out of that because, I mean, she's like what, hundreds of episodes in.

Oh yeah, 6, 700.

Yeah, 6, 700 episodes. And she still highlights those three. Right. Like, so this is where you, that's the only thing you need to achieve is to get a few of those. And you don't care that they don't share because it's your sharing that matters. So this is why we choose them. This is why you have to be very targeted about the value that they add. And so that's the second piece that I want to share with everyone is this idea of how you determine the value. So in this AI world, you can go ask ChatGPT, Google, Gemini, you can go ask them. I have a podcast in this niche. Here are some competitive shows here. Who should I have on as a guest? What are the biggest names in my industry? You can ask it and it'll put a list together. Most often, though, I find that the list is kind of typical and maybe not as useful and maybe a little too generic. Like if you say you're in entrepreneurship, you'll get Tony Robbins. Is Tony Robbins going to resonate with your female audience? Probably not. So, like, you have to be really specific about what you're asking for if you want to use that model, be specific about the kind of person you want that guest to resonate with. So I just did this with one of our podcasters in the chiropractic space. She was like, her coach is one of these big name entrepreneurs guys. And so he used this sort of generic model of trying to pull a list together for her Think big on your show. And I said, well, what's the goal of your show? And she said, well, to get more patients. Then this is not the way to go. Your patients don't know who those people are. They are big name entrepreneurs, but they're not big names in Orange County, California.

Or big names in chiropractic. Right.

Who's going to influence them to come and be patients?

Right.

The purpose of your show also matters. The ultimate goal of the action you want taken for it. That means the most. And we in AI prompting the biggest mistake is that people don't put the purpose up front. I'm just going to. I'm straight out telling you my number one secret to getting good answers from AI is put your purpose up front. And that needs to be front and center when you're thinking about this. The biggest model purpose matters. So put that up front. Do that. The second thing is then take that list if you want to, if you liked it, if it had some resonance to you, and then go and Google and YouTube them and use the search engines. Use them, separate both of them, Google and YouTube. Treat them separately. And what you're doing is checking how they show up there on other people's shows. So how big are those other shows? If they will pimp themselves out and be on every single show, they've devalued themselves as a big guest to you. So you want the ones that aren't on every show. They're only on the shows that are maybe bigger than yours, the ones you aspire to be on. Those are what we are going to consider our bigger guests, the other people. Yeah, you should have them because everybody had them on. And you got to make sure you check the box saying that person in my niche was on my show. Right. And they'll willingly go on. There will be no problem, no hard time asking them because they go on every show. And so that those are easy. We want the harder ones, we want the bigger ones, the ones that are going to add value to us and to them. Right. So we're looking for those that have kept their podcast interviews to a minimum to the ones that they really think are important, because those are going to be a little bit harder to ask. But when you get them, they're going to have higher value. So that's what we're looking for when we do that, when we both Google them and we look for them in YouTube. And then really when you do it, check the dates because someone may have had a. They hired someone. I did this in 2017. I hired someone to put me on a dozen shows. And so I was on a dozen shows about product innovation. It's how I got my ink column. But that's what its purpose was, to do something. So it's like kind of going on a book tour. You might see a whole flood of it because of the year they launched their book. Let's say they launched the book in 2021 and they had a whole bunch of book tour, podcast interviews. That's great. But they haven't done anything since then. That's good. Now's the time. Catch up with them. Be that one that has recapping what's happened in the last four or five years. So that's a good place to be. So do pay attention to the. How old those dates are. So you're doing YouTube separate, because what plays on YouTube is very, very different than what plays in normal Google search. And so then the next qualifier, you don't just put their name, but you also put their name and the niche. So you want to put your name and health and wellness, that person's name and finance. And then type in one more thing, and that is health and wellness experts. Top health and wellness experts. And then by podcast guest or podcast, add that in there and see who shows up. There might be some names you never thought of. So that's the first way you're gonna vet them. The second way you're gonna vet them is then once you've narrowed down your list. Cause, and I wait to do this because, like, let's say you get a dozen people now, the dozen that you thought, okay, they showed up really well, I've got a dozen now. Now go check their socials. And I only go. And I only care about either the social media I want to grow in or the social media I already dominate in. So I won't. I won't check them all. I'm only going to check two. So if I dominate in LinkedIn, but I want to grow in Instagram, I'm going to check those too. And what I'm looking for is that they share other people. That's all I care about. I don't care about how many followers they have. I don't care about how many messages they have I care about. And I will flip through all their posts and look for posts where they're sharing something they did with someone else. If they only share their own stuff, then they're honestly too selfish to be a guest on your show. And so that's the choices. That's all I'm looking for is to say, if I give them the gift of being a guest on my show, and it is a gift, it is promotion, it is publicity for them, are they going to reciprocate by sharing me in a place where I need to be shared? Are they going to return the favor? And if they don't cross them off my list, I'm just not going to bother. It's not worth the time for what I need to do for the bigger guests. So that's it. That's, it's like super simple process of vetting them and getting that. Now the big problem is ask.

It's really not, I don't think it's that hard to ask. You know, I always.

No, no. I mean, it's a mindset issue of asking.

I agree. It is a mindset issue. I come across a lot of newbie podcasters have never launched a show and they are all, what's the best way to describe it? I guess nervous or apprehensive and really selling themselves short. Well, I can't ask that person because I, I, my show is nothing yet. Why are they going to want to come on my show? And that's really naive thinking, quite honestly, because I try to get every new podcaster to realize, hey, you are giving this person a premiere opportunity to be one of the first guests on your show. Now, why is that good for them when your show has no audience yet? I'll tell you why. Because that those early episodes are going to be heard and played more than any other episode you will ever record. Statistically, I can tell you without hesitation, without a doubt, this is universally true of all podcasts. No matter how long you go even. I bet you Scott Carson, one of our customers, is about to hit a thousand episodes. As long as his first ones are still out there, he'd probably tell you they have more plays than the more recent ones. Why? Because they've been out there for so many years and people who find his show want to go back and hear how it started. Now, sometimes you get to the point you have so many episodes you have volumes and you put them in volume feeds and they may end up being your main feedback feed. That would be the only exception. But don't give away those spots to just anybody. You want to definitely try to get the best guests. And it's interesting because the title of this, I think to get people's attention, is Landing Bigger podcast Guests. But again, Tracy, I think you've put a little perspective on what does bigger mean? Does that just mean a bigger star, like an A list celebrity? Or does that mean bigger is somebody that's gonna benefit you the most and get you help, get you where you need to go, that's a big guest. Even if on their face they may not appear to be as big as someone else you thought you might wanna have, but really it's vanity for you. It's not gonna get you anything.

Right? So asking, having the mindset to just go out there and ask and then where to ask matters. So I interviewed these great.

Really early on in the Binge Factor. Interviewed these two guests who don't have two co hosts who don't have a show anymore that was about weddings and it was about like the behind the scenes to weddings, like the wedding frustrations. Like, and it was funny and it was really good. And they wanted Kevin James. They had heard him on a late night show where he was talking about his daughter getting married and like all of these funny stories and hassles and he's so funny and, and they were Canadians, so they were big fans. And so they were like, you know, we gotta get them in. And so they trolled him on Twitter because that was when Twitter was called Twitter. It's not anymore, but it was still called Twitter back then. They trolled him there and they knew that that's the only place on social media that he actually posted himself or sounded like he posted himself. And it was true. And when they DMed him there and told him why they wanted him, he did it. He just like, it was an instant agreement. He's like, here's my team. Schedule it. And like it was done and they had him on and he was just, I mean, and it wasn't about the name, it was for them. It was about this fabulous story of like stuff that goes wrong at a wedding and it happened to a celebrity who has money, right? Like, you know, and so it actually added such tremendous value to the show. And people were like, oh, you know, if they want to give the show a try, they're like, oh, I heard of Kevin James. I'm going to try that. And so they'd listen to the episode, right? And so that, and then he's so funny, he engaging. It makes a great story and it pulls them into the rest to binge on the rest of the show, right? That's what you want if you're gonna land a big guest is to do that. So the key is to find out where they really hang out if you're gonna reach out to them in social media. So if you don't know them, you don't have something. Obviously. The first thing is tap into your network. Who do you know who knows them?

Right?

Ask, ask. And very often someone knows someone. The second thing is to actually go through and fill out web forms, book page forms, fill those out. Because someone on the other end of those is PR at whatever publicity at. It's their job to find something good. So if you set a very good custom pitch through there, you're actually likely to get to somebody who can make the schedule. And if they like what you have to say and like the reasons for it, there's no way they're not going to do that. And so go for that, that those forms actually work. So don't skip them. And then if you're not getting a response, I'm going to show you what you do. Because I'm trying to get someone on the Emerging Managers podcast right now. So I was watching an author speak on one of the late night shows. I honestly can't remember which one. I think it might have been the Daily show, but I'm not 100% sure because Tom watches them all the time. And then he falls asleep while we're watching them. And then I am like, oh, that's a really interesting guest. And like I listen to what they have to say. Well, there was this author who came out, her name is Megan Greenwell. I bought her book to attract her and I am doing this. And so what I'm gonna show you right now is I bought her book and I'm gonna do a little clip. I'm gonna send her the clip. So I'm gonna take a clip from what I'm doing right now. So Megan Greenwell has written this book about called Bad Company, about how private equity has killed the American dream. And of course, Emerging Managers podcast is all about equity, all about the emerging equity managers and the emerging managers in the venture capital space. And so this would be a really controversial, wonderful conversation for us to have on the show to talk about why more emerging managers might not be a great idea. And because it's so controversial, Megan, I think this would be a really worthwhile audience because the audience of listeners are other emerging managers. So people in private equity are more likely to buy your book coming out of our interview because they're gonna be like, well, what did she say? Because when you have controversy, they wanna listen. So, Megan, reach out to me. I've already sent you a message on LinkedIn. I've sent you a message through your book page. Reach out to me because I'd love to have you on the show. See, you could do a video clip.

A really good example of really a technique that any podcaster can do. And you planned it, you had this pitch thought out. You delivered it on the podcast. You're going to clip that and send that video to her. Brilliant. I'll be shocked if it doesn't work.

Right. I'll let you know. But also the other thing is that read the book and write a review on Amazon or on wherever they would like to have their reviews submitted to. Sometimes they'll tell you Goodreads or other places like that. Do that as well. Give.

Yeah, you prove yourself as a valuable host of having that guest on when you do these things. Another one of our podcasters, Irene Weinberg, truly can only interview so many people, one a week on her show now she's retired, she has the time, but it's still a lot of prep work. She reads the book of every guest she has on that has a book. So she asks more intelligent questions, and I think different questions than most because when somebody goes on like the book tour circuit, usually they're prepped by a PR team to always say the same thing on every show. And if you can be a good host and ask questions that are not going to be so easy for them to just give the pre rehearsed response, you're going to have a better interview. Stand up above the others. But one other thing, Tracy, I want to say about, you know, not being afraid to ask. It's a bit of a cliche, but it's true. You're going to get a no from 100% of the people you don't ask just by not asking. I actually remember this advice my whole life because one of my best friend's mothers gave me that advice when I was wanting to ask a girl out and I was nervous about it. She's like, well, if you don't ask her, it's definitely a no. And so it's true.

Yeah, Tom's never been afraid to ask. I remember in college you used to ask for stuff and people would give.

You it for free.

Free. He got me a knitting machine for free.

No, this is really true, guys. This is something I've always experienced in life. I've never been shy about asking for something. And in college we had no money doing, and we're in art school, so we do projects, right. And reach out to a company. You got, you know, older piece of equipment collecting dust. We could really use it in this project. Would you be willing to donate it and write it off? I mean, you'd be surprised all the things you can get for free in that kind of context. But even it's. It's been true in life. I mean, people that are afraid to pick up the phone, which, by the way, in this day and age, picking up the phone, if you can get someone's phone number and reach out to them to ask something, it's going to resonate a whole lot more than the 10,000th really badly worded mass email. I mean, I can't tell you how many guest pitches I get in email from PR people that truly have not done any homework and they've not done what you just did. Tracy, in recording that video pitch, doing something that really shows you care that. And you've actually given us some thought. This isn't random. This is intentional. And you're going to show them the good reason why they should say yes to you instead of the thousand other people that have pitched them in the last month.

Right? Exactly. So now if you are getting crickets, you're not getting answers, you're getting. You're not getting response, but they're not saying no. One other way to up the game besides giving, which is what I just suggested here, you give them a book review, you give them a video, you give them a shout out, you do things like that and interact with them and engage with them to show that you're going to be a valuable partner, the next thing you could do is show them how they could compete. Sometimes people are more competitive. They don't want to lose out on something than they are about gaining. Right. And so if you were like, I had so and so on my show, like emerging managers podcast, the venture capital managers are all have giant egos, biggest egos.

I agree.

So when I say to them, so and so has already been on the show and you're really missing out on that. It's like you're not represented. Right. That starts to hit them right where it hurts in that ego spot and gets them to jump on and book, you know.

I agree. The fear of missing out. You could also play that other person's appearance against them, so to speak, and say, you know, I had so and so on the show and he or she was really talking about this. And I'm curious if you have a different perspective to share. I mean, that would probably get to the. Oh, hell yeah. I have a much better perspective than that loser. Let me get on there. Right. I mean, I could hear them thinking that in their mind. Yeah, exactly.

And they said this. And I think your opinion differs. Right. But the last way I do it is to take it away. And, Tom, you know that I've done this so successfully in our consulting business before. It would get us hundreds of thousands of dollars in deals. And so I would say, you know what? I think you're not ready for us yet. And maybe this is. And pull my offer to have them on is what you're doing. So I'd say, like, you know, I had so and so on, so I guess I don't really need to cover this topic anymore. So thank you. I'm sorry that, you know, we didn't get. We didn't make it happen. Maybe in the future this will be a better fit for you. For us, rather.

So you've made a pitch to someone, they haven't replied, and then you send a retraction of that offer, you pull it away even though they didn't accept it. You pull it away, and then that can.

But you pull it away because somebody else came on and took their spot.

Yeah, Gotta be done very tactfully. But I can see that working with some people.

Yeah.

Back to that, you know, dating advice, being aloof does help. Like, being disinterested does help. Right?

It can. It can, yes. It can make you more attractive.

That's right. So anyway, these are just some ideas for how you might land bigger guests. But the real message here is that thinking carefully about the guests that you have on your show, the value they add to your audience, the value they add to your authority, the value they add to your exposure out to more listeners really matters at the end of the day. And so one of the things that I want to remind you is that don't devalue other podcast hosts. They actually have some of the highest value they can bring because they already have guaranteed listeners. A big author doesn't necessarily have listeners. A big celebrity doesn't necessarily have people who listen to podcasts. They have people who watch them on a movie. Right. They have movie, you know, moviegoers. They don't have podcast listeners as 100% of their arsenal. And so do not devalue them. Raise their value in what and how. You think of them as being bigger guests. So doing a podcast swap may have the biggest value you could bring to your show. So raise their value, not devalue them, because you're like, oh, all these podcast hosts are like me. They're independent. And they're like, no value. You know, they're not all like, you they already have established their show and they already have listeners.

Fantastic advice, Tracy. Very well informed from. I don't even know how many interviews now. Probably around 3,000 or more. I forget. But you're really good at this and I think that everybody should go to school a lot of these tactics and whatever will be the best fit for them and work for them. And then you'll get those bigger guests, whether they are really the big, big, big, big guess or just the bigger guest that the one that makes sense for you now or at the time. And it's different context for everybody. So much great perspective. Thanks so much for sharing that.

Happy. That's what we're here for, right? That's what we're here week over week over week, is to help raise your game, right? Help amp up whatever it is you need to grow in your show. And there are so many episodes. So I am really excited, Tom, about some of the cool new things. I've got these two young summer interns. One of them might be related to us, and they are so excited about getting their hands on our YouTube channel and on our TikTok. It's not even funny. And our, I think our Instagram too, like, they're sort of coming around to like, they, they aren't giving up on Instagram. I guess Gen Z has like kind of a. They think their moms took over Instagram or something. So I personally haven't. So, like, it's not me. But they're gonna take it over and they're gonna do some fantastic things. And one of the things I charge them with is we've done so many amazing, great episodes, it's hard to navigate. There's too much information. How can they help someone who is starting out, who really needs that next thing? How can we help them find things better in this consumption market we have in our YouTube channel and in our socials. And that is what they're taking on and they are embracing it. So we're going to see some really cool things coming out.

And so we're going to be talking about those things and sharing the results, isn't that right?

And so when we have the results sometime in the fall here, because so a few months from now, because we're recording this in the summer, sometime in the fall, we're going to have them on to talk about it.

And they actually asked to be on the podcast.

They did, they did, yeah. They've actually asked if they could come on and talk about it. And it's not because they need publicity. They Want to share? They're excited about the process.

Well, that's good. I think being excited about it is going to make sure that they do, you know, a really good job of it. Obviously, we don't know what's going to work yet. Right. But they have a plan and going to experiment. And I have to tell you, Tracy, I didn't even know we had a TikTok because you. You and I don't do it, you know?

Yeah, it's. It's not good. Please don't go looking for a TikTok. Like, there's some horrible, like, holiday dance thing in there and that's it. It's like me and me looking fat in a red sweater, I think. So let's not go there. I told them to get rid and start again.

But the thing is, I heard some of the conversations about TikTok and some of the plans. Like, wow, I don't know how it's going to benefit us or who's going to see it, but we're going to find out. All right, I'm looking.

That's it. We're here. We're always putting ourselves out there to try these things. I did 3,000 interviews for you, and I could tell you who makes a good guest and who doesn't like that's is. This is what we're here for. We're here to be in front of where you are so that we can be your guide and tell you what works and what doesn't work.

Fantastic. I love it. All right, well, hey, we have the information, the links and details to everything we talked about today in this episode in the blog post@podcastersunited.org so check that out. And don't forget, while there, you can sign up for our weekly AI Driven newsletter. That'll serve you more of what you need and what you're interested in, as long as you actually interact with it a bit. It's very important, so make sure to do that and then we will see you all next time on feed.

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