ShePodcasts Live with Jessica Kupferman of the She Podcasts

Wish you were one of those influencers with raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority Magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazzard shares strategies, tips and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor. Now let's join Tracy as she explores how to rise above all noise with the binge factor.

Hey everyone, welcome to the center of Influence on Feed. You'd brand and I have a really cool guest for you today. You are going to love her. Jessica Kupferman is the co host and co founder of she Podcast Brand, which I hope you've heard of by now because they have been stirring things up for quite some time and they have a great new event that we're going to talk about today. She Podcast Live and it is coming up in October. There's going to be links to that all throughout the blog post for this post and we're super excited to talk to her because she has over 12,000 female podcasters and a digital marketing reach of 50,000 content creators. The she Podcast community was funded spring of 2019 via Kickstarter. Double the goal. Which I love, because as you guys may have heard from me in the past, Kickstarter is not a place to raise products and interest in products for women like just doesn't normally work. So they broke the mold there and I love that they sold 200 tickets in 30 days. I think you've sold way more by now. So Jessica and I are going to talk about that. But she specializes in marketing and monetizing within the podcast industry and that is something we so badly need to talk about here because in order to become the center of influence and it's great to be an influencer, but if it's not making you money at the end of the day, what's it worth? So Jessica has been featured in magazines such as Entrepreneur, Forbes, Social Media Examiner, Yahoo. Finance, she's been guests on Entrepreneur on Fire, Faster Than Normal, the new media show, and she's spoken at the NAB Show Blog, Her Social Media Marketing World, Podcast Movement, and many more. Jessica, thank you so much for coming on the show today.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm super excited to be here.

So you have how many speakers on the she Podcast docket right now?

106.

And we 106 women.

I know we had 185 people apply, including some men. And I won't Lie. It gave me a little bit of delight to tell them no, not that they weren't qualified, because of course they were. But if there's a man that can talk to it, there's definitely a woman that can talk to it. And I just didn't want to. I mean, as good as they are speakers, you know, the point is to give women a chance who have never. Who maybe have never had a chance before, so.

Well, let's step back a little bit. When did you decide to podcast?

I decided to podcast in 2013. I started a show called Lady Business Radio. And actually, the reason I started it was because I wanted the publicity myself. And I looked at all the other entrepreneurial podcasts, and it was Entrepreneur on Fire, Smart, Passive Income, School of Greatness, Mixology. They were all white men interviewing other white men. You know, save Pat Flynn, who's, like, white ish, but obviously he's not white. But, yeah, no, they were all interviewing white dudes, which I understand, because when you. When you start an interview show, you end up interviewing people who you want to emanate. And of course, men want to emanate. Men because they're men. So it made sense to me, but I felt like, well, where the hell are all the women's? Why are there no women's shows? And I thought, you know what? I'll make the women's show. I'll be the one to amplify these voices because clearly no one else has thought of it. And then there were a couple that came right after me. Biz Women, Rock and Biz Chicks, which are still going now. I stopped Lady Business Radio to have a baby. And after 200 shows, I had a really hard time going back to it because it started to become a bit of the same conversation. Well, first of all, I change what I'm doing, like, every three years. So, like, there's that. But also, it started to become a very similar conversation over and over. And I. And I also, as I was out on maternity, I saw that, you know, Lady Business Radio in that community was stagnant. It hadn't really grown without me. But she podcasts, on the other hand, had, like, tripled in four months. Like, the women who were wanting to start a podcast, like, it had grown enormously in my absence, and it was not a very large amount of time. So I was like, maybe I should focus my time here, because clearly this is a group that needs, you know, support. So. Yeah, but. So I started my first podcast because of that. And then when we started she podcast Elsie Asked me to also do a podcast about it. I started the women's group just so that for the same reason, I started a show because I needed mentors that were women to give me answers about how to say no to interviewees or how to, you know, add time into my schedule. You know, I needed mentors that had spouses and children felt like they didn't understand what I was saying when I was just like, no, I can't do three shows a week, though. You know, like, I don't have the time, and I don't have.

My kids are going to be screaming in the background.

Yeah, I already had a cat that was screaming in the back. You know, like, I was already just doing it the way I was doing it. And doubling your shows isn't the answer to how to grow your audience. You don't just say double your shows. It's crazy. Yeah. But those are the kind of answers I got, you know?

You know, it's really interesting because, you know, I have a network here that has over 225 podcasters. And Tom asked me the question the other day, who's our top women in the group? And you know what? It was really hard to identify because I have some that have amazing shows, really, really great, but they're so inconsistent with what they put out. And I was like, what? You know, and so it started me thinking, really, about having this conversation with you. It's like, what can we do differently to support them? Because the men are not. Their shows are not better.

No, they're not better.

So why isn't it working and what's not happening there? And, you know, it's also an interesting thing is when I did what I did here, which is I put out a call to all of your speakers, or most of your speakers, I couldn't, because I couldn't physically fit them all in. Like, I wish I could. So I was kind of. I was like, oh, here's one. I haven't heard that title before. Like, it was kind of. I almost threw darts at. It was kind of that way. I was like, let's see who responds. And whoever responds, they must be the most eager. And that's wonderful.

Yeah, that's wonderful.

Right. And so that's what I did. And so I've already talked to a couple of them. They're amazing, and I absolutely love them.

And.

But why haven't I heard about them before? Like, what's going on there?

I mean, not to blow into the microphone in frustration, but, you know, I think part of it is that there are certain podcasters that get attention over and over and over again. And, like, for me, that exposure comes at podcast conferences, and I see speakers being recycled over and over again. And I know of women. Like, one of my speakers who has applied to be a podcast movement for four years, and she's never been chosen. And I saw her speak on an outlier festival, which is a podcast festival. Well, in Austin, and she was hilarious and amazing, and I was like. I think I had already. She had already applied, but I basically walked up to her after, and I was like, you're going to be a speaker because you're amazing. I can't believe you've never been chosen. It's crazy.

Well, so this is the same thing for me. So, like, I speak all over the world at entrepreneur events that I. I do keynotes.

Yeah.

They don't call me back. Like, they don't. And I was like, what is with that?

It's like, have you. What is with that?

Yeah, what is with that? Because, you know, are you afraid? Like, I don't know. Are you afraid?

Last year, we had gone on a crusade with. Specifically with podcast movement to get them to increase their amount of diverse voices, and they did pretty good. In their defense, I mean, it was up to 25, 30%, which is okay. But Elsie was like, you know, and then when we. Oh, Elsie probably questioned them about it, and he said, you know, we did the best we could, but there's not that many that apply. And I can actually vouch for that. Like, I know for a fact that if. If. Even if I had said yes to every woman of color, I might have half. I mean, I'm at 40%, which is amazing, though.

That is completely amazing. But that is. Why aren't they applying? And so part of it is that I stopped applying. So, like, I just gave up on it. I was like, why bother?

You know what?

I'm not going to bother to do that anymore. Because first off, all the events that I get asked to speak at, I'm asked to speak. I don't.

Yeah, I'm paid, even.

Yeah, exactly. I don't apply. That's not how it works.

Right. Yeah. Yeah.

So part of it is, like, you get beyond that, but you're right. When you put out a call. I put out a call for guests or we put out a call for speakers, and they don't apply as often or as frequently as the men do. And why is that? And it's a fundamental. I don't think my show is good enough.

I think that women in general. I mean, part of the reason I wanted to do this conference is that I do think women in general either are afraid of being heard, afraid of putting themselves out there, afraid they'll be told they're not good enough, or just plain old don't think they are good enough. Like, they wouldn't even consider applying or putting themselves up because they already assume it's too hard, it takes too much time, it's too technical. They can't do it. They don't. You know, it's all these barriers that I think are. I mean, some are definitely, you know, of value. Like, not enough time. I don't know any tech. I mean, that stuff's. That's just legit. It's just that those aren't barriers that need to stop you if you want to do this. And I don't think people necessarily realize that. But I do think as far as, like, applying to speak, I think they just assume they won't get it interesting.

So you just don't want to put yourself out there for the reject, which is so interesting. Maybe not my style, maybe that's part of it, but, you know, I mean.

I guess totally comfortable with rejection on every level.

I got to speak this summer on a stage to 200 investing women. Women in finance.

Whoa.

And I looked at this audience and I said, I'm, like, speechless right now, which never happens to me, but I've never gotten an opportunity to speak to this many women.

So I'm really looking forward to your.

Conference because it just dawned on me that 90% of my audiences are mostly men. And because of the industries I speak in. And so I was like, this is a trait.

Yeah.

You know, and to be able to inspire and push through and to get this content heard by them, that was just an honor. So I'm looking forward to your event. I can't wait to hear some of the great speakers. But let's talk a little bit more about your podcast and what you're doing, because, you know, it affords some things that I think people don't realize. Some interesting things that may have happened to you, some invites, things that may have occurred for you, or maybe even something kind of funny that went on. Whatever it might be. I'd love to hear some stories about how it's moved you forward in your industry and in your business.

So the first show that I did, Lady Business Radio, I did that because I wanted to start a speaking career, and I knew I was going to try and have a baby, and I Didn't think it would be smart to start a career where I'm traveling even locally all the time. Like, I live in Delaware, which is 20 minutes from Philly, an hour from Baltimore, two hours from D.C. i have lots of speaking opportunities within a driving distance. And I was a little bit afraid that I would get some momentum and then get pregnant and then not want to do any of it. So. So, I mean, you know, I've been pregnant before and I know that it's exhausting. So I was like, I don't think it's a good idea. But so I was asked to speak on a podcast and I loved how it worked. And I thought, like I said, I'm going to be the one to start this. But I also saw it immediately as an opportunity to get to know some women that I saw as influencers and influential in a more personal way, because I'm charming. And I thought that, you know, like, that being interviewed by me would be fun and then we would get to know each other and then they would like me. And it did kind of work out that way. Like, there were women that I've always wanted to have a one on one conversation with and I never had a good excuse. You know, I'm not like a let me pick your brain kind of chick. Then I don't like that when people do that to me. So I didn't want to do that. But all of a sudden I could call or email Mari Smith, Leonie Dawson, Pam Slim, and Tori Johnson and say, like, I would love to have you on my show. It's a women's entrepreneurial show and it's very relaxed and I'll probably bring up all kinds of weird stuff. But because I also did want to be a little bit of like a Howard Stern in that I like to dig for the story. There's a story with everyone and I didn't want it to be. Tell me about your journey to success. I really wanted to hear, like, Pamela Slim goes on a book tour for like six months out of the year. Like, does her husband approve of this? Like, do her children remember what she looks like at the end of it? Like, I wanted to know.

Glad you asked those questions.

Like, yeah, it was important to me to know and also to sort of make entrepreneurship feel a little less lonely. Because it does kind of feel lonely, don't you think?

You know? Yeah, it does feel a little bit lonely. And there's like different questions. So, you know, I like to up my game all the time, so I know that I'm a good speaker on stage. But hey, you know, why shouldn't I go and get trained and learn how to maybe convert into more sales or do those things? So I step up, but there's only, like, men to learn from. And so I go out there and I go to learn, and I'm really, I'm sitting back going, gosh, you know, no one's ever talked about the jewelry we have to wear, as stupid as that sounds. Or, like, where to put the microphone when you've got a dress on. And like, you know what's going to happen with all and how that big old bulky thing looks behind your neck. And, you know, like, no one ever talks about that. And so. And that when you wear spiky heels, it scares the crap out of everybody in the audience. Like, seriously scares them. I had that feedback before, and so now I only wear wedges when I'm on stage because they're so afraid you're gonna fall on your nose.

Well. And they teeter. If you're in the audience and you see that stuff teetering, it's scary.

It's scary, right? Exactly. But I'm five two and there's no way I'm gonna go flat two. You know, you got to have some wedges there. So, you know, I have my favorite pair of shoes, which I've actually picked up and shown off on a Facebook Live. It's my most popular Facebook Live I ever did. But you don't realize how important. So I'm so glad you're asking those questions.

Yeah. So I did that for about a year and a half, and through that, I did get a bunch of speaking gigs and people started asking me to talk about branding and marketing, which is what I was doing. And then I also started noticing people were asking me about how to podcast. So I did a little course on that and that went very well. And then I started being asked to speak about podcasting entrepreneurial things like blog her. That's. Well, that's more of a blogging conference. But that worked out pretty well. And then as all that was happening, the she podcast group was growing and growing and growing and growing. We weren't monetizing it really very consciously because Elsie has a full time job. She works for Libsyn, and I was doing coaching and consultant and web design. And I've sort of had to hone in on what I've wanted to do over this time period. I had an ad agency for a little while where I was helping podcasters sell ads on their show. And then I sold the agency because I couldn't only make money selling ads on big shows, and they don't really need my help. It was the smaller shows that needed help.

So, yeah, it's the 98% that don't qualify for advertisements.

Yeah, that's who I really wanted to help, and I couldn't make money doing that. So I was like, what is this all for? I don't want to. You know, it's just silly. So I sold that. And then I was in the process of trying to pick a new project to work on. I thought maybe it would be like a sponsorship course. And I was like, wait, now is the perfect time to do an event? It's something I've always wanted to do, is plan an event and a big party and make sure everyone's having a good time and learning and feeling uplifted and encouraged. And it all has sort of led me to this path. It wasn't a path I always knew I was on, but I do remember when I started she podcast, I talked about doing live events because I just been to one of Tori Johnson's Spark and Hustle, and she had this thing where she would plan six events, one per month in different cities. And then in every city that she would choose speakers based on whoever was. Whoever wanted to sponsor would get a booth and a speaking spot for, like, three to five grand. So she made money, they made money, tickets sold, everybody was happy, and she got to travel the country. And I was like, she's a genius. Because I had, like, kids really early and I've never been anywhere, so I was like, I gotta figure out how to do that. It isn't exactly working out the way that she did it. But, you know, I'm doing the first show in Atlanta, and that's really exciting. And I'm planning events, which I love to do. You know, it's funny, I've been encouraging one of my friends who hates her job to be an event planner for, like, three years, and now I think I know why. I think it's because I'm the one that I'm like, you love this stuff.

You were trying to live vicariously through someone else, but really, you should have been doing it.

You are. And I'm like, you do. You're great at this. But I think, yeah, it was me. I was like, trying to figure out how to live vicariously, but I love doing it, so I love that.

I'm super excited about your event, so. Because there's some, you know, it's got a fun Vibe already. Yeah, because it has this grassroots thing that happened from starting in Kickstarter. What made you guys decide to go Kickstarter? Because as I mentioned, like, I've done a ton of research on it, women's products do not succeed.

Yeah. So five years ago, podcast movement, five or six years ago, they started on Kickstarter. They went to the podcast community and said, we'd like to try this little event. Tickets were like $30, $50 or $100, or you could be like a bigger sponsor for like, you know, my husband and I gave them $500, and I got to speak on the stage for the very first one. And it was very small. It was in Dallas for the first three years. But they did very well making sure that it was something the community wanted. And that's the lesson I took from. It wasn't necessarily like, I want podcast movement cred, but, like, I wanted to make sure, even though women here and there have been asking for it for a couple years, that they really meant it. Because in the ways I've tried to monetize she podcasts in the past, they tell me they want something and then I give it to them, and then they don't want to pay for it. So. And that's not everything, but it's just, you know, I wasn't willing to do that with a hundred thousand dollar event. I wanted to know that they would buy tickets, that they would show up, that they would sponsor it, that they would speak at it. And I kind of wanted to guarantee, or I was just going to work on the other project I had. So I just asked for 25 grand because I felt like, I mean, that's enough of a boost to at least put a down payment on a hotel and then figure it all out the rest of the way. And instead, we doubled it and we sold 200 tickets during the Kickstarter and we got $50,000. And so I had a really good sense of, okay, this is something that people want.

Yes, absolutely. And, you know, and the more women I've told about it, the more excited they were. They were like, finally started giving up on the other events because it didn't feel like it was for them.

Yeah, I mean, do you feel that way? I don't know that I necessarily feel like it's not for me. I just feel like, you know, it's like radio. If radio is for everyone, is it really for anyone?

So I have a confession to make, Jess. I've never been to a podcast event.

Guys, are you serious?

I've never been.

No podcast.

No podcast, no podcast movement. My team has, but I've not.

This will be your first one.

Well, I don't invite me to speak. I don't come. I don't have time for that. I'm speaking somewhere else likely, Nancy. I know I am. I'm a little conceited here. No, it's just that I'm usually then someplace else because you didn't book me. And so that way I don't attend events. I don't have time for that. I try to take the extra time to attend the ones I go to. Like, I would never come to your event and not stay for as much of it as I could. I mean, yeah, try to stay for the absolute whole thing. And in your case, I will, but, you know, it's just. I believe that that's the commitment to an event that I make. And so because of that, I have three kids. So, you know, I know what you mean. You know, I can't do too many a month. I don't do more than two events a month. So for me to travel all the way, if they were in my backyard, it'd be different. You know, I. Sure, I'd show up for a day or two, but when they're not in my backyard, I can't commit to attending an event. Isn't that funny? So you're going to be my first podcast event.

Well, I will say there is something very special about being in a room full of. So, like, I was just at NS Speakers association conference, and they are very different than podcasters. Both are a chatty bunch, but speakers are extremely extroverted. And I'm just going to say it. Glory hogs. Like, they love to be the center of attention. They want to be on stage. The bigger, the better. Podcasters are not exactly that way. They want to get their message out, but they are really passionate. Sometimes a little shy, sometimes a little introverted, sometimes a little bit of, you know, introvert, extrovert. But for the most part, like, they might be a little more socially awkward. Like, when I was at the speaker convention, I'm like, this is a lot of bodycon dresses and a whole lot of hairspray. Like, I was impressed that, like, how made up and glittery everyone was. But it's so different than a podcast conference in that they are ready for action. Podcasters are like, is this okay? Am I doing it right? Like, they. I feel like they need. I almost feel like they need, like, whether it's mental or physical, like a makeover And a push out the door. Do you know what I'm saying? That's why I want to just be like, y' all are awesome. I don't know why you don't think so or who told you otherwise, but get your bodycon dress on and get up on that.

I love that. No, you know what? You're right. There's a very big difference between the speakers and the podcasters. And you know what the thing is, though? Is that what I've discovered underneath is they're both completely insecure about how they're doing.

That's interesting that they both are.

Like, am I good enough? Like, who's doing better than me? Like, there's still that underlying. Because when I put out a post, I just did a post in a webinar recently about the 12 things you did wrong when launching your podcast that's killing your growth.

Ooh, ouch.

Yeah, it's ouch. But you know what my biggest fear is that a couple of the slides have pictures of, like. Like, what you did wrong on your cover art. Like, those people are going to show up and be all upset. Like, they're going to accidentally show up on my thing. I'm like, sorry, I've been sharing your photos, your cover art for about three years now.

I find that most people know their cover art's messed up. They do, because they did it by themselves in a hurry just to get it out there. Because they were being told, just get it out there, get it out there. And then actually, I did that. My cover art was horrible for people. Two months, three months. And I couldn't get. I fixed it eventually because I didn't realize it was inverted in Apple podcasts. It was like, black was white and what was just kind of scary and creepy. But, like, yeah, it was. I fixed it. I made it so that it was a little more appealing. I mean.

But, yeah, those are the kind of things, like, they show up for that. That they. They don't say anything, though. They won't say anything until, like, behind the scenes, the only offer that I ever make is, let us evaluate your show for you and let tell you where you are, because we have other shows so we can see where you're fitting in. And so they. Then they'll take you up on that.

But they're like.

But they don't want anyone to know they're on there. Like, it's the funniest thing. They're worried, but they're competitive, too.

One thing I've noticed at podcast, this is something first of all, I love podcasters. They're definitely my people. And I am an outgoing introvert, so I do fit in. But, like, sometimes I hear like, if I'm sitting somewhere with, like, somebody else, well known podcasters is the only place I've been since high school. Well, people will come up and be like, can I sit at the cool kids table? And I'm like, that does not exist here. You just sit down. Like, it is the silliest concept to me that as an adult, we're like, oh, this is the cool kids table. And I'm like, don't ever say that about me. I don't like that. I don't want to think like that. I don't think like that. But I know that that's like a. Am I good enough to sit here? Yeah, I just think that's so cute, kind of. And like, I mean, I think it makes them generous, supportive, inclusive. That's all the things that I love about this group, and especially women. It makes them even more like, you know, as long as we all respect each other, you can be anything from anywhere. And we include you and we support you and we encourage you. I love that about this group. So I'm excited to have them all in one place.

Yes, me too. So let's talk about some nitty gritty stuff. So how has podcasting really moved your authority, gotten you more stages, done more of these things? Like, how has it done that?

So what's funny is that the she Podcast group started as like five people, and now it's 13,000 women. And I don't know that she and I have ever really pushed people to join. I think that because it's growing on its own, it shows up in a lot of people's like, you should join this. And then I think people appreciate the vibe in there and they encourage other people to join. But for whatever reason, I was just telling this to my husband last night. I'm like, I don't. I know it's an accomplishment, like, logically, but I'm not sure what I did, though. Like, what did I. Could I do it again? Could anyone do it? And he was like, no, I don't think anyone could do it, but it's okay if you can't. So I'm not sure. But I do know that as it's grown, my credibility has grown. It has given me the opportunity to talk about the stuff that I am good at, which, by the way, is not voice or tech or mics or podcasting. I don't know. Diddles about any of that. I can clearly grow a community. I can clearly market to a community. And for a community, I definitely know how to sell advertising and how to. I know how to sell, and I know how to market, and I know how to make stuff look fun and funny. That's my forte. And because of podcasting and because of this group, I've been invited to talk about the things that I am actually good at, which does apply to podcasting, but technically it applies to anything. Like, if you have a show, if you have a blog, I can look at your stuff and say, you're not bragging about yourself enough here, or you're saying too many words and nobody knows what the hell you're talking about here. I can see where the sales messages are going awry and fix that. And I've had an opportunity to teach that, which I'm very grateful for. So I know that I have a lot of credibility and influence in the podcasting industry. I know people know me a lot because I'm the founder of this group. But when people say I'm a podcasting guru, I do still cringe a little bit. Don't ask me about mics and stuff. Like, I don't know what Mike's the best. I have no idea what my mixer is set on right now. Like, I don't know.

So I do know that, and I wish people wouldn't ask me about it because it's not the point. Like, that's.

No, it's not always the point. But, like, I want them to ask El. You know, Elsie's my partner, and she knows all that stuff, and she's really into that stuff. I've edited my own show, but I. I didn't know what the hell I was like. I was just like, there's an, um. I'll just take it out. But I didn't know how to mix it. Or I'm a video person, and I don't know why, but it seems so different video, because you can clearly see when it's too green or too purple. But audio, I don't know what to listen for, so I don't know when it's right or wrong. So I just am like, well, here's where your sales message. I don't know what else to talk about, but we all have our skills, right? But, yeah, I'm very grateful that people hopefully think of marketing and monetization and they think of me as someone to learn from in that area, because I do think I've helped a lot of people like get some sponsors and keep sponsors and reach out to sponsors and know which sponsors to reach out to. Like, I'm very good at that stuff. So.

And this is something that I think people have a mistake on is thinking about monetization of their show as only sponsors and only advertisers.

So true.

Other ways. What other ways have you been able to monetize your. She podcast and Lady Biz?

So Lady Business Radio had advertising, but that's just because it was an entrepreneurial show when there really wasn't a lot and anybody with like a mailchimp course would ask me to put it on there. Well, I talk about it and I talked about it for like fifty hundred, two hundred bucks. So that was mostly sponsorship. She podcasts. We've done live events, live tapings of our shows. We've done an online course, we've done in person workshops, VIP days. We now have Patreon. It doesn't make us a lie. It's like 700 something a month that we split, but it's not nothing, which is what we used to get. So for us specifically, there's been all, you know, Elsie does a group coaching workshop like every, I think, spring and fall, and she's been able to monetize that very well through the group. I don't think she goes outside of she podcasts at all to market that, because she wants the people that we already work with that know us to teach them more deeply, one on one. For me, you know, I would love to be able to just pull event resources from the group, but I know that, I mean, with Facebook, groups are just hard. Like, if I could find a way to pinpoint every single One of those 13,000 people, I don't think I would have to. But Facebook makes it a little like, I can't. I haven't been gathering email addresses the whole time, and I probably have like a third of email addresses of the people that are in there. So I do kind of have to market outside of it a little bit. But for other podcasters, you know, for me, I was very clear that I wanted to do a speaking gig. I was very clear that I wanted to do live events somewhere at the beginning, and subconsciously or not, I've sort of driven my career in that way. I knew I wanted to speak. I started speaking at every podcasting. It wasn't exactly what I put out into the universe, but I mean, like, it's. I've yet to be paid properly for like, you know, a speaking gig or a keynote, and I've Never been a keynote. I'll be the. For My first keynote will probably be for my own event, but whatevs. It's a keynote, and it'll be six months.

It's a keynote, right? If you have to create your own bed to do it, actually, it's harder. What you're doing is harder than speaking a keynote at somebody else's event. So let me tell you what you're doing.

I think I'd be more nervous at someone. I mean, at least I know these women like me. For me, it's not being liked. Like, do that. Are they gonna hate me if I say something silly? Yeah. I mean, I think when a podcaster starts, if they know they want to be like, Elsie was very clear, like, for speaking. When it comes to her, she just wants to be the talent. She does not want to create an event. She does not want to plan a wedding. You know, that's kind of what it's like. She wants to show up, be paid a speaking fee, and go the hell back to her room. She doesn't. That's it. And she has kind of manifested that in our relationship and us talking about it. She works the exact way she wants to work. She is. Gets everything out of this podcast that she wants. She wanted a small group to coach. She has that. She wants show up and do the speaker. She has that. If you're a podcaster just starting and, you know, you want a membership or, you know, you want to evoke social change, or, you know, you want to eventually teach people a course on the topic that you have a podcast on, you just make sure you know that at least you know the direction you want to go in ahead of time, and then you can kind of steer your show in that direction, but it can be monetized all kinds of different ways. Like, there's so many speakers that are going to show that at the event. Just every which way to monetize.

Well, I look forward to that.

Well, let's touch on some of our five things that I do with everyone here.

Okay, great. Am I talking too much? You can just tell me to shut.

Gosh, no. That's what you're here for.

I know, but I know podcasters are wordy.

You know what? We like wordy because that's why we're brandcasters. So the wordiness benefits us at the end.

Right.

And that's how we drive all our traffic.

So we.

We care about the wordiness.

So. Right on.

Gonna be right in the blog.

Yes.

Yeah. So share some lessons, some experiences. On the best ways to book great guests.

I think you have to do research. I think that, you know, there was a little while there where I was picking all the people and then they started pitching me. And at first I started just saying yes to everyone because I'm a people pleaser and it's such a bad thing to be. And so I was getting guests that like, they were not good guests. They just wanted the audience and the attention. And I wasn't doing enough research. So I started really researching how have they are. You don't want to be the source of someone else's audience. You want to make sure that their audience listens to the show. So you just want it to be like a this isn't date. I actually find this to be a lot like dating as well, where like, you don't want to be the one giving in the relationship. You want it to be a give and take in the relationship. So you have to research your guests to find out are they bringing something of value to your show. Will your listeners be grateful that you've interviewed them? So if you are being pitched, you really have to do your homework to find out how interesting are they. And even if they're fascinating, if you can't see that in their web copy, and this is the salesperson in me and the marketer in me, if I couldn't tell they had a decent website or decent marketing copy, no way. Because what are they going to say in person? I mean, this is your sales tool. If you can't make that sparkly and shiny, forget it, you're not coming.

Perfect. So you know what actually though, what Jess is alluding to is actually going to be a core part of my talk that I'm going to give at the event.

It's important.

It's about what you look for when you research it. Because I learned this by being a columnist. I didn't learn it from interviewing guests myself. But, you know, like you, we got burned a few times and said this isn't going well. And lucky for me, my first podcast was in a tech industry, so it really didn't matter. Like, nobody was anybody. So there wasn't a lot of that audience share thing. It was a content share. So unless it was just really bad content and they weren't interesting, you know, and if they were that bad, we did kill the show. Like, we wouldn't air, we'd say, oh, I'm so sorry, the audio was bad, I got better at preschedule and we never reschedule. Like, that was It.

That's subtle, but it gets the job done.

That's right. So I'll be talking about that. So you're alluding to that. So I'm so glad, because that research, I think you're right on doing that research is essential. And those that do it and spend that time to prep, I see better shows because of it. So good for you.

So there's 20 women who will say that they now help women step into their greatness and be their authentic selves, but only one of them has slept in a van for two years. That's the girl I want. I want the one that's, like, done something crazy or gone out of the box. Like, I learned to pick that out as, like, something I've never heard before. They always make great guests.

Awesome. I love that. So how about increasing listeners? What are some of the best ways to increase listeners?

Increasing listeners, I think, is a little bit more mathy than people like to hear. So I'm all about the math. When you're on the show, you talk about going to Facebook and Twitter and LinkedIn and Instagram, wherever you are. And then when you're on there, you drive people to the show, and then when you have an email and you drive people to the show and the social. So that, I mean, it's this sort of concept of being everywhere, which I don't necessarily agree with, but I do think everyone is somewhere. And, like, if you have people that just use Facebook, you've got to make sure that they see that you have a new episode out. And if you have people that just listen, you have to make sure that they follow you on Facebook or Twitter so they can know when the next episode is out. Like, you want them to come back. And they're not going to be listening to podcasts 24 7. I mean, some psychos do, but for the most part, we have things to do. Right. So we only know when you change listeners as psychos. No, but just, you know, I know that people aren't just like, when's Jessica gonna do.

Do another episode?

You know, like, that's like, I'm assuming they're on Facebook. They're looking at a feed somewhere. And if they don't see that I have a new episode, they're going to miss it. So I want to capture that every single time, which means I want to make sure that I'm posting when I have new stuff happening wherever they are, you know, so I want to make sure they're following me on the thing that they use. And then they can see me to listen and it's just like a constant re bringing back of people over and over and then that's not enough. If you only have 100 followers, you're. Yeah, you'll keep having the same hundred people, but then you have to start growing those channels because you can't. You really cannot control listeners of podcasts. They are either going to find your show and listen or not. But you can control your community growth and how many people you follow on Facebook and how many people follow you and who you're talking to on Twitter and how many people you follow there and LinkedIn and advertising. That's all stuff that you have full control over. And I'm all about having control and being a control freak. That's my mouth. So I would love to be able to tell people that if they don't listen to my show, all bad things will happen to them. But I don't think they believe me. So instead I'm just going to like spend money to control what I can. And I think that's the best way. So it's like keep sending people back to the show and the social and then grow the social as much as you can so that you can put them in that rotating cycle. I'm using my hands like a nut job right now.

But like, so if you're listening, you're not seeing.

Yeah, you're not seeing my crazy circle hands. But yeah, I mean, it's a.

It's right, it does. I mean, because if they listen enough, then they come to love you and then they come to trust you and then they come to want more from you. And so then you get them into whatever it is that's working for you, monetization wise.

I think now the growth for social is also around advertising. It used to be Twitter had these like auto follow and unfollowing tools, but they don't really have those anymore. So just doing a cheap ad to try and get a thousand people in your direction, like a week or a month is perfect.

Yeah. And I'm hearing that more and more paid ads for listeners. Yeah, it's becoming more and more common. So, yeah, now you don't like to talk tech.

I don't mind. I just don't know a lot about.

But you do think that a show needs to be produced in a professional way. And what does that involve for you? What makes it more professional?

I mean, it used to involve nothing. My first show was like, I didn't even edit it because I couldn't be bothered. I Felt like I was obsessing. And so I stopped obsessing and I was just like, whatever happens on the show, it's just gonna happen. Hopefully it sounds good the end. And then we got an editor for she podcasts that I guess loved the show but hated listening to it. So he was like, he tricked us. And he was like, let me just do an experiment with your audio. We'll record. You send me the audio and I'll send it back. You tell me what you think. Well, I don't listen to my own show, so I have no idea the difference. But he was just like, I'd love to keep doing it for you if you'd like. You know, just so he could listen because he couldn't stand the way it listened, like, sounded. And then, you know, the few times I've listened since then, I was like, wow, he really is a genius. Like, it sounds great. And then I upgraded my microphone from like a snowball, which is embarrassing, to like an ATR 2100, which is not, you know, it's under $100, but it makes you sound really good. And then since then, I've gotten a couple gift mics from people who wanted me to review them on the show. So right now I'm using a high LPR 30, which actually enhances women's. The tones and women's voices to be a little bit richer and deeper, which is nice. Yeah, so that's why I count on.

My editors to do that part, to make me sound deep and rich. But I also have a deep, I have a deeper voice than most women, so that works on my favor.

But yeah, it totally does. And like, so now I think if you're not going to take the time to understand how to edit your own show, at least having. So like my editor will do like a one stop shop where for an hour he'll listen to your show live with you, make adjustments, show you what to do on his screen, and then you're set. You can go edit your own show. At least have someone listen, I don't want to do it either, but I'm saying if you can't afford it, someone to do it for you, which you and I are very lucky. Like, we've had people do it for us. I mean, John was doing it for free until we could afford to pay him, but I know that he will at least listen and be like, if you just make these adjustments, you'll be all set. And then you'll be all set. You don't have to worry, does it? Sound like this or that. So I think that's important, at least to know what the levels are and then just never touch them again, you know?

Yeah, no, no, that's so important. So. Okay, good. Yeah. Because how people experience it, you should at least listen to your show once. Right. And make sure that it's not bad.

Right. I used to, but I found that I sounded. I. To me, I sound like a maniac. Like, I sounded. I'm very enthusiastic, and I felt like I sounded like a psycho. And I was just like, I know, but it made me really cry out of myself. Skin. Listening to myself.

I don't listen. I have to tell you. Like, that occurred to me the other day that I have not listened to my show in probably three years.

It's hard. It is.

It's really hard. I was like, I listen when we first do it, make sure it's like, the quality that I want, the setups the way that I want, and then that's it. Then I let it go because I trust my team to do it. But I don't listen to it. I don't have time to listen to it. It's not even like a. I don't want to. I just don't have time.

I work from home. I never drive anywhere. When am I going to listen to it? I can't listen when I'm working because I can't think. Listening to myself. And, like, even I can just hear myself right now. Like, I can just hear myself right now thinking, like, why are you talking so much? Shut up and let her talk for five minutes. You know, like, I'm just incredible. I can't.

It's my job to let you talk. So it inhibits me, the host this time. I am.

I'm one of the few people I know you're supposed to listen to yourself, and I don't do it. And I always get made fun of for it, but it inhibits me, and that's why I don't do it.

So now you guys have a great community. How do you encourage engagement in that community?

Okay, so I actually have tricks for this that I think will work in any community as long as you remember that people love to talk about themselves. So there are two tricks to this. Number one, ask for advice. You don't even have to need advice. Just ask for it. Just say, I'm buying a new mic. Which one should I get? You could have already purchased it. It doesn't matter. People will talk all day about what they think, and they. Besides loving to talk about Themselves, they love to help. People are inherently in need of feeling smart and accepted and helping other people as part of this. So if you ask their advice about literally anything, you will get the longest amount of comments on a post in your life. So that is number one. Number two is icebreakers. I learned that if you just ask. I mean, we don't do this in she podcasts anymore, but sometimes, just for funsies, I'll throw it in there. Like, if you were an ice cream flavor, what ice cream flavor would you be? And, like, the answers don't matter, but people love to pontificate, I'm vanilla because I'm super boring, or I'm rocky road because my life's all drama, just whatever, you know? But, I mean, that's a terrible example because that's probably the worst icebreaker known to man. Like, another one would be like, what was your first car? Or where was your first kiss? Or, you know, whatever. But people, I think they can't resist questions like that. It's irresistible. Plus, if you do it on a Monday or a Friday, that's prime procrastination time, because nobody wants to be working on Fridays or Mondays, and so they will take all the time in the world to answer those questions. And then what you have is a post with lots of engagement, which then rises to the top. And then your other posts will be ripe with engagement as well. And so that's kind of how it's not just how you build engagement, but it's how you build a community of engaged people, is to get them to talk to you, you and themselves and one another. And then before you know it, every post is at the top of their feed because you have so much, you know. And then also, I think that my promotion, if you have one post that you allow people to promote one time a week, that's another post that rises right to the top because it's got 200 comments, which I actually hate that post in my group, I hate that we allow people to do because it's like the one post everyone posts on. It's like, do you really think you're getting your listeners by telling podcasters your podcast? That's silly. But they do it. And I think that the post rises to the top, and then I think the other stuff comes in right after it.

Yeah, so we talked a little bit about monetization, so this is the last of our best ways, too. But, you know, you have a bit of experience in the sponsorship side to it, so I'd love for you to comment on what are some of the best ways to make your show monetization, you know, Worthy.

Worthy? Yeah.

For sponsors and advertisers.

The one thing sponsors and advertisers are looking for, there's literally one thing, your audience. But it doesn't necessarily have to be on your podcast. If you have an audience anywhere, a healthy audience or even the exact right audience, that's what they want. They will. If it's 200 lawyers and they have some kind of lawyer product, it does not matter how many lawyers there are. You doesn't have to be 10,000 lawyers. That would be a miracle. But most likely it's going to be 400. But if that's the exact right thing, they'll go right after it. So if you sell Chicago Cubs hats, you gotta find those Cubs podcasts. Even if there's 300 people, it's worth advertising that hundred bucks a month. It's gonna be cheap. Right. And you'll get in front of the exact people that want your thing. So I think as a podcaster, just growing your community as much as possible everywhere that you can. Like, Elsie and I have 750 to 1,000 listeners a week. We have 13,000 people in that Facebook group. We have, like you said, a Twitter following. Combined like 50,000. And it's because we're engaging on all these places, because I can sell advertising in the group and on the show. People want to buy $250 a spot on the show. What they really want is a tweet or a post somewhere else, and we just kind of add it all together. And you can do that, too, as long as you have an audience. But people who start a show thinking they have a brilliant idea. Where are my sponsors? Well, they don't give a shit about your idea, no offense. They want the people to listen to it. Right?

Right.

Your idea could be you could be Einstein. It won't matter if Einstein was standing alone with no lecture. Who would know? He's brilliant. Who cares? Right?

Absolutely.

So.

So, you know, do you think that, you know, from a sponsorship and advertiser standpoint, it's really underestimated podcast advertising?

Really underestimated? Yes. I think they are missing the boat on so many levels because they are looking for, like, the broadest reach. And I mean, Home Depot can have the broadest reach. That's fine. But I also think that podcasters are waiting for those big sponsors. They want caster mattress and hellofresh. And they're missing the boat too, because, like, the guy who does a fishing podcast, he doesn't need those sponsors. He needs the guy who's selling tackle boxes. That's the guy. You know, But I think we want what the networks have, and we're not. That's not even a similar product even, you know.

No, I mean, we see upwards of. I mean, that's why we built the productized platform the way that we did, so that we could help those 98% monetize their show through their own stuff. Right. And so. Yeah, and so, you know, we built it that way because we saw, like, upwards of 30 to 37% conversion rates on the shows that we were already managing for other people. And we were like, this is ridiculous. Why aren't you doing more of this? Right. You know, we. We didn't just make a few hundred bucks. We used to make Thousands on our 3D print show because the audience was so valuable. And so, you know, you can do that deep in a niche.

Yes. In fact, that's the best place to be. You just have to be smart about who you pitch and how you pitch yourself.

Yeah, absolutely. So what are some things that, you know, really people shouldn't podcast? Like, maybe there's advice like, how do I know if I should podcast or I shouldn't? Am I not right for this?

I think you're not right for it if the whole point of doing it is because you think it's going to either make you famous or make you money in the next couple of months. And you're not really into the topic. But you know that business podcasts are popular or true crime is popular. If you don't give a crap about either business or true crime, that is going to go south in the worst way possible. And I think anytime you're chasing money or fame, it's never a good way to make either one of those things. Like, you can't want fame and have it. You either have to, like, subtly. You just have to be great at what you're doing and love what you're doing. And I think those are the people that are successful and really any genre. But it's never more true than in podcasting. The law of attraction is strong with this field because if you are after money and you are desperate, your listeners will smell it and they will run. It's only when you really care about your topic and you're really interested or you're having a good time that makes the best audio, that makes advertisers flock to you, that makes listeners flock to you, then you're successful. But if you. If you're Doing it for the wrong reasons. It's gonna. You just may as well give up now. Just go do something else that makes you happy as a hobby or a career. Because this is not really a career. It's like a. It's like something fun that turns into a career when you're good.

Right, Right. Oh, wonderful. Thank you for that advice.

The last thing I wanna know is you mentioned your kids.

I have.

Have they listened to the show? Do they like that you're a podcast or are they proud of you for that? Or they're like, I don't want to know anything about it. What my mom does is weird.

So my five year old doesn't. I mean, he doesn't even know anything exists other than himself. I have a 5 year old and a 21 year old. My 21 year old I know has never listened to. I have two shows, almost three. He's never listened to any of them. But he did come with me to the NSA conference and he was actually like, he hung out with not just me, but other podcasters too. And they were talking about it. And like, first of all, he's a good public speaker and he's very passionate about certain things. Like, I think he would make a very good podcaster. And he's kind of been like humming and hawing about college and, you know, travel and like, he doesn't know what he wants to do with himself. And I was like, well, but you never shut up about Pokemon. Like, I don't see a lot of Pokemon podcasts. Like, maybe you should just talk about that and see where it takes you. Like, at the very least, he'll have somewhat of a built in audience in the sense that, like, a lot of podcasters know me and they'll support him or tell people about it if I say so, which is, you know, lucky enough. Like, and really that's anybody with a podcast, if you have a kid who's doing something, you can just tell your audience, hey, check this out. My kid's doing it. So I think he might be getting into it, but it's certainly not from listening to me. I doubt he will ever listen to my show. I really do.

So I have daughters, my 24 year old runs our business, so most of our clients know her better than they know me.

That's amazing.

And so, yeah, so obviously she does listen. She does know what goes on there. But my 10 and my 5 year old, they all want to get on the mic. Like, it's fascinating to them that we have microphones in the office. And they want to get on and hear their own voice. And I think I can't be prouder of. I mean, that's like the idea that those girls will never know what it's like to not vocalize.

Like, to me too.

Yeah, like, to me, I was like, I'm done. I did a great job as a mom. Good. You know, I could slack off for the rest of the years. No, no.

Very much a ham as well. And I do love when he loves to talk on the microphone. He loves the sound of his own voice. He sings a lot. Like, I do love that. Like, I don't know that I could instill that in Nate because he's just like, he's just a little goofy anyway. But yeah, I do love that Isaac likes to play with the mic and he likes hearing himself. And I think he's a natural podcaster. I just don't know how to. I can't always capture when he's being hilarious, you know, it's so spontaneous.

I know. It's like if I sat you down to speak, you wouldn't do it.

Right. To follow my footsteps in the next.

Five years, I just like attach a microphone to you. We'll walk, we'll follow you around. It'll be a different model.

Your 10 year old could do her own show already. Yeah.

She's still trying to figure out what she wants to do, but she wants to be on video, so she.

Oh, got it.

A YouTuber. Like that's her goal.

All right.

I was like, look, you just got to figure this out. We're here to support you. We got lots of tech. You're, you know, my son in law is a video guy. I'm like, you've got support here. You can do this. But you got to figure out what you're going to talk about because I'm not going to let you just go into it and go like, I'm going to talk unicorns and then you talk three shows and you've got nothing else to talk about.

Yeah, you do kind of have to put some thought into that, don't you?

And so that's it. Yeah, so that's the part that's hung her up. And I'm so glad because I wish more podcasters would have that kind of processing.

Yeah, totally.

Think about what we can we talk about this for a long time. Do people really want to hear this?

And you know, she's really lucky she has you.

Thank you. I appreciate that. So yours are too. So I am so excited about our community. So let's just do a final, like, tell everyone about when the event is, all the details about it and we will make sure that this is fully in the blog post. There's a blog post for every single episode we create and so all the details will be there. So you, if you're listening in your car or at the gym, you don't have to write this down. But I want Jessica to tell it to you so you can hear it, how excited she is about it. Because I'm excited.

I am excited. So you can find out about the event@shepodcastlive.com it's going to be in Atlanta at the Marriott Marquee, which is a gorgeous hotel, beautiful hotel. Excited. It's October 11th through the 13th. The kickoff party is on the 10th. It's going to have amazing podcasters and speakers, like I said, 107 beautiful women to teach you every aspect of podcasting, including how to start if you've never started before. If you want to learn more about she Podcasts, the free group, you can go to she Podcast. Com. All of our handles are she Podcasts, Instagram, Facebook and Twitter at she Podcasts. Our group is groups facebook.com forward/groups forward/sheepodcast. So please join if you want to find out what it's all about. It's just going to be an in person version of the online version and it's like I said, really encouraging and supportive and loving and I can't wait to meet you in person since you've never been to another podcast. I know. I hope we live up to the hype.

I am absolutely sure you will.

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me today too. It's been really fun talking.

Oh, absolutely. It's my pleasure. And all of you out there, you know, I'm doing center of influence interviews with top podcasters all over and I'm bringing you many more from the event. So the she Podcast Live event, I've got more speakers coming up in probably the next three weeks. So we'll all leading up to the event. I've got probably at least one a week. Who will be coming out, who's going to be a speaker. So we're doing a whole bunch of that's so awesome highlights for the next couple of months and I'm send me.

Those so I can help put them out there.

Absolutely. We'll be sure to tag you when we post them. So. And if you didn't catch it because Erica Corday went ahead of Jessica here, so Erica Cordes went alive. So she's also going to be a speaker at the event, and we're super excited about her, so don't miss that episode. So we'll be sure to make a throwback to that. So, Jessica Kupferman, thank you so much for being on the show. Really appreciate it. She Podcast live coming up. Thank you all for listening to Feed you'd Brand center of Influence I'm Tracy Hazzard, and we'll be back next time with a top influencer.

You'Ve been listening to, the Binge Factor Podcast. For more information on podcasting and videocasting success tips and tactics, please go to thebingefactor.com and be sure to listen to our other show for podcasters called Feed you'd Brand. If you'd like to be interviewed on this show as well as featured in Tracy's column, please go to thebingefactor.com guest and apply.