Staying Enthusiastic: How To Keep And Improve Your Podcasting Energy?

Want your podcast and videocast to be seen, heard, found and rewarded in this noisy digital world, you are not alone. Join the nonprofit community at Podcasters United and podcast industry experts Tom Hazard and Tracy Hazard as they debunk all that outdated and bad advice you've been getting from the podcast gurus and find out what actually works. Today, get ready to finish feed your brand with smart cut tactics proven to cast your original voice to the world.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to Feed you'd brand. I'm Tom Hazard along with my co host Tracy, and today we're going to talk about energy, the energy of podcasting.

More than just energy. We're talking about staying enthusiastic and how to keep and improve your podcasting energy. Because it comes through the microphone. I don't know how to get this across enough. It's like I'm not faking this personality that's coming through the microphone, right? It just, it comes from your place and the intentions and the energy that you start from. And so whether you have a binge able show and I care about this all the time and I talk about this, I can completely tell the difference between someone who has the right energy and mindset just from listening to their episode.

And I would argue that listeners can tell if you're smiling or if you're not just by listening to you. I believe that. Personally, I can tell with an awful lot of podcasters or certainly I have a belief, depending on their energy, that, oh my gosh, they are absolutely not happy doing this.

You know, well, look, everybody has a bad day. I can remember a couple of times where Tom and I had an interview for wtff and because we were doing like five days a week, we had a lot of episodes to record and it was really stressful and it was taking up a lot of time within the week that we already had client work and other things that we were doing. So it's like podcasting was sometimes an interruption. So we'd be having a design argument, debate, which is kind of how we design. We'd be having that and then we'd have to switch our energy and have an interview with someone and not have this just like literally who Argument. Pop up. Zoom. Although in those days it was Skype, right? Pop up Skype. And not have that hostility or stress. Come across the microphone and come across the episode. Right. Come across it completely, but come across to the guest as well. They don't need to feel that you don't want them there.

You know the expression phoning it in, right? Yeah, boy, you can Tell when a podcast host who's interviewing guests has not done their homework, has not really researched the guest, wasn't very prepared, and they're literally just phoning it in. Or even those podcasts that are very formulaic and they always ask the same question every single time.

I have a no list of shows I won't appear on. And the three top things on the no list is if they ask the same questions every time. The second one is they're the host, but they really only just do the introduction and somebody else actually executes the interview. I refuse to go on those shows. My third one is that if they make you pay, I just think they're bad shows. I don't accept that. I think it comes across badly to the audience when you have all paid guests. And that's what I don't want to be. I just don't want to be the guest on one of those. That's like your business to do that. It's just not how I want to guest and show up. I want to.

I think that could be a whole nother subject.

For a whole nother subject. Yeah. Those are my three absolute nos on. It is just that. But the other thing is that sometimes you can't tell when someone invites you on the show. You have to actually listen and check it out to find out that it's on that no list. Like, I can't always tell. I have to check that out so somebody will reach out to me. Maybe I got them on Pod Match, but I will go and just listen to a couple of shows. Because you can't always tell formulaic shows from one episode. You have to listen to a couple to note that's what they're doing.

That's true.

And then I do have kind of like a minor rule that I will rarely, if ever, come on a Show that's under 10 minutes.

Yeah.

That's my awesome.

Personal Enough time to take any decent dive into a topic. 10 minutes is too short.

It is. It's just too short for the way that I work that in my message. How I connect with an audience. That might be perfectly fine for you, but it's just. That's kind of my own. It's not a real rule. It's not worth it.

Let's talk about an example. Can we do that, Tracy?

Yeah.

An example of a show that has this energy that is infectious, I think, and just keeps you involved.

Are you going to talk about the clip out?

No.

Oh. Because that would be my choice.

Well, let's cover that next but no, no, I was thinking of a solo host. You're talking about co hosts, which coasts have a different energy. So let's cover that in a minute. But I'm talking about a solo host. He does some of his own episodes and he has interviews. But this guy, he is passionate about his topic. It comes through in his energy, and he is amped up. I almost am like, oh, my goodness, sometimes. What are you on? But it's really just his personality, and it's Meryl Chandler of Get.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah. Okay.

Yeah, we've each been on his show and.

But if you've heard him speak live or taken his boot camp, it's the same.

It is he, right? He is energy. Yeah. And it just comes through. It's.

So that's the Get Fundable podcast. Right. And Merrill Chandler, and he's got well over 100 episodes. Like well over.

Maybe approaching 200.

200. Yeah, exactly. And his energy from early episodes all the way through to current, it's very similar. And I think that makes a difference. And I think it's harder for hosts to do solo shows and have the same energy that they have in an interview because there's an interplay of I'm showing up for you and I'm interviewing you, so I'm engaged and I'm talking with you. Right. And that is an easier place to have more enthusiasm, to have the right energy level. Because we do. It's just human nature that we show up for other people. Right. And we pay attention and we listen and we do that. But when we're doing a solo show, we can get so in our own head that we don't have that energy. But Meryl is brilliant at picturing the audience. He knows who his ideal audience is. He knows he's talking to them. And when I listen, I feel like he's talking to me. And that's the brilliant part, if you get the energy right.

And his topic has so many details to it that are un. Understood, unknown or unseen concerns to the listener, who's often uninformed, formed, or a newbie in his topic. But he has.

They're complex.

They're complex. He has this way of highlighting something and emphasizing it and making sure that you don't miss an important point or a key takeaway. And that's part of his energy that does that anyway, even if you're not the slightest bit interested in his topic. But as a podcaster, if you just want to hear an example of a very high energy level, just check out Get Fundable podcast for five minutes of an episode and you'll hear quickly what we're talking about.

Early on, Tom and I were offered to be on a podcast. When we started our 3D print one, we were got asked for one and I used it as an example from stage so often. And I would play the audio for people so that they could hear the difference in energy level from our show to the sky show. And he was like, asleep and you could hear all this background noise and this crackling. And it was unprofessional. It had no enthusiasm and energy, nothing in it that would make you want to listen to the show. And he wanted us to come on the show. And I made a bunch of excuses because I didn't want to dampen the, you know, a new podcaster. But at the same time, I was like, this isn't going to get better. Like, it's not. You know, sometimes people are nervous in the early days. Right.

I didn't want to be associated with that. I mean, poor quality of a show and something that it just wasn't going to represent us well. And the person didn't really have self awareness, I think, anyway. I don't know. I feel like looking back on it, we maybe should have been a little more candid with him as to why we wouldn't be on the show.

But now we would. But back then we didn't have a podcasting business. Right.

Right. No, that's true. I guess I'm seeing things through a different lens today of trying to help me.

We weren't coaches and trainers on this.

Fair point.

Yeah. So there is this solo energy that you have and you bring to it. And so I do this this way. This is how I. You can have tactics and methods for how you do this. There's lots of. I'm going to call it. Look, actors have a different model. There's a reason Tom and I don't recommend that you write a script. Read a script, read your questions. And it's because you're not experienced at this. And even still, like, look, I think Jason Bateman is hilarious. I think he's so funny. In any movie, I will watch him read a script. Right. Or like, perform a script, if you want to call it that, in any movie, because he's hilarious and great at it. But if you've ever listened to his podcast, you're going to know that he can do it just as well without a script. You don't have to rely on it. And I think he's actually even funnier. And I think that's a major skill. Right. So this is why we don't recommend this for those of you who don't have years and years of experience doing what you would call table reads in the Hollywood industry and in entertainment. Right. You're actually reading through something with energy at a table read while you're reading the script, because there's no way you're going to memorize the script, execute it, and act it. That's not going to happen in the time of producing a podcast. Not even the podcasters I know that do scripted shows have enough time to, like, really rehearse it and memorize it. They just don't. So they're always going to be reading it. And there's a different energy level with reading it that is lower unless you are so experienced in this. So we just don't recommend it because we're trying to make sure that you don't have a false energy. I'm going to call it a suppressed energy because of the action of reading. So that's why we just don't recommend that there. But in order to get an energy level, you might need a process for yourself. So I've heard of podcasters who do a breathing exercise. Sometimes they do it right on air with their guests. I've done it with people before. They do a breathing exercise and they set an intention and put themselves in the moment. That might be something for you. A second option that I've heard from lots of radio people is to stand. Now, I have a standing desk. I never use it, but I could do it that way. I have plenty of energy sitting. So, like, I don't think maybe don't want me standing. Like, it might be worse. Like, Tracy, you're gonna be off the chart. But Meryl stands. I've seen him. He stands.

You move your hands so much when you talk because it's just who you are. I can't imagine what you do if you stood while you talk.

I feel like moving my fe.

Well, we'd have trouble keeping you in range of the microphone, I think. I don't know. Hey, just to add one point when you're talking about reading a script, the way that I often hear that it comes across when people read a script, and the way I describe it is that it ends up sounding very mechanical. It sounds not natural and authentic, which is really, I think, a killer quality of a podcast. A killer meaning bad, not a good quality of a podcast. I know some people use, hey, that was killer as a good thing, and that wasn't really what I meant there. It comes across very mechanical and it doesn't flow well.

Right.

It's not gonna work.

Yeah. And I think there's an exception that, like, sometimes I read people's bios because I want to make sure I don't get it wrong. But it's going to be like a minute of it and the audience knows it because I'm going to be like, let me read this for you. And so, like they're tuned into it. I'm being honest about it. That can happen fluctuating throughout a show. Your energy level could change because you're doing that. You want to get it right. That's okay.

And it has happened sometimes where I'm referencing an article and I'm quoting something from it, I will just be really upfront about it. Says, hey, everybody, you know what? There's this article I read and it makes a great point. And here I want to read you this little portion here. And I'm just being really in context. It's obvious. Okay, I am reading something. So for that paragraph I'm reading, if I sound different, I mean, it's understandable. At the end of the day, that's fine. That's still authentic. You're just not reading a script.

Right. And that's where a show that is all that can have a problem.

I belong to this organization that has these lessons and principles and they're about five minutes long. And each week they put them out to you. And there's like, I don't know, 50 plus of them. I forget how many there are. There's a lot. And they put them out to us in a weekly email. And when you go to them and you listen to them, they decided that they thought it would be better for them to use one of these AI voices. So they wrote these lessons out and they're in because they were from a book. And they took that and they put it into this AI voice, which then reads it. And now they have this audio recording of this just computer voice reading this lesson. And I.

How did that go?

I thought it was awful. And part of it was that not only was it just awful to listen to, it was a horrible sounding voice. I mean, it was obvious that it was fake, but I could not concentrate on the lesson that the voice was.

So distracting because of how the AI delivered it.

No, the voice was so flat and there's no emphasis. There's no enthusiasm at the right points. There's none of that that happens in the voice. So what happens is that you have to listen so hard and concentrate so hard to retain and absorb that that it doesn't work. That's what happens when you read a script and your voice ends up flat from it and it's not as effective a result. And so it's making me work harder to listen to you. And if I'm in my head working harder, I'm not emotionally receiving the results of it. I'm not feeling your episode, which is the point of podcast, because you feel with your ears. We've said this so many times. Malcolm Gladwell says you think with your eyes and you feel with your ears, but if emotion and feeling are not coming across, it's no better than the written word. And I have to be in my head to read it, to understand it, to interpret that into a feeling for myself. And that's where you're not going to hit home, especially if you're doing a business podcast, especially if your purpose is to transact something, to get them to subscribe to your audience, to become members of your group, to sell them a book. It's not going to happen if you're not in the right energy level that is hitting them emotionally, getting them to feel. That's why this topic that we're talking about, a podcasting energy, is so critical.

It is critical. And I love that Malcolm Gladwell quote. It is one of my favorites, too, because it is so on point. I think he's a brilliant author anyway.

He's a brilliant author and you do feel what he reads because he writes like he thinks thinks he writes like he feels, right? And it comes across the written word, but it comes even across more in an interview with him, in a podcast with him, right? There's an energy level that is even better, right?

And you know, Tracy, I can't even imagine the energy level of that AI. I mean, they're not even trying to program that with AI. And it's kind of like, do we want to listen to Siri or Alexa or your car GPS telling you a podcast story? I mean, we've all heard how awkward even some of the pronunciation is, especially with your car gps, right? Or even Alexa screws up sometimes and how they're doing things. And it would be flat.

It would be flat. Now, that's why they have to inject humor into Alexa, right? That's why she has to have a little bit of sarcasm now and again, because your words, the way you say your words is not coming across. So what? The words are matter more. And so that means you have to be A better writer and programmer, and that's the only way to make a script work, is to be a better writer and a better programmer.

I'm sure you're right, Tracy. And, oh, my goodness, just thinking about Alexa and some of her jokes, it ends up sort of sounding kind of.

Deadpan, but that's what they had to play to. So they have to write the Drakes for a deadpan model, otherwise it doesn't work. Right.

Yeah.

So let's talk about co hosts, because co hosting energy is actually easier, but it's also. Execution is harder. Right. There's coordination between your co hosts, there's matching you up and doing some of that. But when you get it right, the energy differentials between the two of you, the way you play off of each other, actually engages the audience. It's what we actually have found very successful for us. It's why I mentioned the clip out before.

And Tom and Crystal o', Keefe, who are the co hosts of the clip out, are excellent at this. They're, I think, about 300 episodes into their show. They've got a great dynamic between the two of them. I think it's why their show is so popular and likable, because they're very genuine, real people, but they're playful. Their banter between the two of them is part of what is entirely.

Tom is funny. Like, he's funny. And you can almost hear Crystal roller eyes. That's like. I feel like I can hear that over the microphone because they're married. And there's that sense of that that actually comes across from this really good relationship that they have. But also this kind of like, oh, you're going there again. And she rolls her eyes. I can hear it. And I think that's really what makes it so energetic and engaging.

I agree with you. And as a podcast host and you and I, I think each do this. We have podcasts, we do separately. We have podcasts, we do together. The energy of us being co hosts, whether we're interviewing somebody or it's just the two of us talking, it's different than each of us independently doing our own shows. To me, it's more enjoyable to do the co hosting part, even though sometimes it's hard to interject or get a word in edgewise.

You know that can't be my fault, right?

Oh, yeah.

Never, never.

When you're in the same room. And honestly, back in the early days of our podcasting, we were in the same room all the time and recording. And I think every episode of wtff you and I recorded, we're in the same room. That's 650 episodes. And you and I can have these hand signals that are off camera if. Because some of them were video at that time, not all of them, but we have these hand signals that no one can see that you and I, you know, it's not as easy in this modern age of zoom. And you're in a different room of our building right now than I am. And when I want to try to interject, it's pretty hard without me making that obvious on the video, which is going to be used that I'm trying to do that. So it's a little more difficult to have a smooth dynamic to us, but it's still a lot more fun. And the energy is different. And boy, I remember this one episode of WTFF where there was a special industry term and you were less technical than me. You were more strategic in a lot of our discussions and interviews, and you used this term describing something that was just wrong. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And then I finally realized what you were talking about. It was kind of funny. And I did a face palm. And I'm like, I'm sorry, listeners. She meant this, you know, so it became a funny moment between the two of us. But it was fun for the listeners too. And actually I remember we got a lot of comments from listeners about that banter.

They liked it.

That they really liked it.

And this is kind of what I want to say also is like, look, this interplay between you having different energy levels, I mean, Tom and I could not get more different in energy.

We're very different. Oh, you speak like 200 words a minute and I'm more slow and deliberate. There's big differences.

Right, right. But that works, right? It works for us. So thinking about that, you don't have to be the same. And in fact, I think shows where the voices and energy of the. We tap into the energy level of the co host. We tap into it to differentiate between the two. So like when we have two female voices on a show as co hosts, it's not the sound of the voice, it's the energy of the voice that helps me go, oh, it's host one versus host two. It helps me differentiating. So having different energy levels is actually more valuable than having a different sounding voice. So that can really work for you. Of course, it's really easy when you have like male voice and female voice, you know, and you're doing both of that. Like that's easier or just extreme difference in voice sounding. But then you also have a different level of energy. That works too.

The last thing I want to talk about, Tom, before we go is this idea of over editing and scrubbing and using some of these automated AI tools.

Oh, okay. Don't get me started, Trish.

Yeah, I mean look, there's some amount of efficiency level and we struggle with this, I mean, across the our thousand clients and like checking all of their episodes. But I'm really hesitant to over filter and over scrub it unless it needs repair because it does diminish the energy level of a show and remove some of the authenticity. So some people want to remove empty spaces. The listening app lets you check a box and remove all the empty air and like compress it already. So like even listening at that, listeners get to choose to do that already. So even if you're not editing to do it, they can do it it on their end. It does kind of hurt the listening experience. Right?

Dramatic pause. Ever hear of that? I mean, sometimes there's a point to it and you lose that whether you edit it out permanently or use one of these listening apps. I'm not a fan.

Yeah. And so this is where when we test out some new AI, when we test out something like that, we're always really careful about whether or not it's taking it too far and reducing the authenticity and the energy of something. There's some things where sound leveling that's important. There are some things where these filters can be useful and there are others where it really hurts the process. And so look, I get it. You all want to speed up the editing process, especially if you're doing it yourself. And these tools can be really valuable to helping you on that. But also thinking about editing less, just don't do it as much. I think it's a better experience for your audience and really clearly listen to your own show. Get a experienced pair of ears. And I differentiate this. I do not like to get experienced audio editors to listen to my show. I want a layperson. I want an audience member to listen to the show and I want them to tell me what they think. Because audio editors are so over sensitive to all the different nuances and their ears are attuned differently. It's like someone with perfect pitch, right. They cringe. Tom does this. He cringes like I can't really hear.

The difference in singing notes where they. Yeah, like a theatrical performance, especially if it's high school or something and somebody sings a note that's really off pitch, I can't help but react to it. I try not to. Because you don't want to make the kids feel bad, especially hopefully most of the time they can't see you in the audience. It's dark, but it's like, boy, it's kind of like fingernails on a blackboard for me if it's.

Yeah. And I usually kick them because I don't. He's like, you don't know if you're sitting next to their parent, you know, But I don't have the ear that could hear that. I personally, personally. And this is where most of your audience, they don't have the ear. Who's attuned to that? They don't care about that. I mean, look, if your podcast is for audio editors, then you better be attuned to that. But if that's not who your audience is, it doesn't really matter because you also have to remember that I'm listening through the conversions. I'm listening through my phone. The listening experience is already dumbed down. It's already deteriorated on that side, compressed. Like all those things are happening so that it's really not coming through anyway. To me at a super great headphones and like the perfect environment, it's great if you can afford to do it. If you do that. And an experienced audio editor knows not to over edit, but these filters don't. So you have to be better at making sure that it has not detracted and ruined your energetic experience.

We routinely test some different AI tools and in fact, we're testing one, a new one right now, as around the time we're recording this. And AI tools have good intentions and pretty lofty goals, but we've been finding a lot of them don't really deliver the promise of what AI aspires to do or those that are putting AI products out there aspire for their products to do, maybe is a better way to say just there's not a shortcut, in my opinion, to do some of these things with AI.

So as we end here, I want to reiterate. The goal is not to have a perfect show. Everything you say to be perfectly worded and articulate and amazing. But if you compensate that with making sure that you're in the moment, you are enthusiastic and passionate about what you're talking about, and you have the right energy, it is going to compensate for everything else and you are going to create a great show that is bingeable, that people rave about, share with others. That's where you're going to get more if you're phoning it in. If you don't care about this, it's going to come across. So there's nothing you can do that is more powerful than making sure that you show up on this mic as you want to be heard on the other end.

I think it's great, Tracy. Let's drop the mic there. I couldn't say it better. So thank you for listening everyone, and I hope you've gotten some value out of this. That's our intention. You can find the blog post for this episode along with the video@potatize.com and we hope you come back for the next episode. Thanks for listening everybody.

Thanks everyone. This is Tom and Tracy on feed.

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