Stop Limiting Your Potential Podcast Power And Actually Take The Plunge Like Diann Wingert, Host Of The Driven Woman Podcast

Wish you were one of those influencers with raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority Magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazzard shares strategies, tips and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor.

Now let's join Tracy as she explores.

How to rise above all the digital noise with the Binge Factor.

Hey everyone.

Welcome to the Binge Factor. I'm Tracy Hazzard and today I'm bringing you a totally driven podcaster as I'm bringing you Diane Wingert. She is the Driven Woman, the Driven Woman Podcast and she has got a show that she has really committed to over the last year and she should be celebrating all of the commitments she's made and living up to the delivery of those episodes week after week after week. And it was a long haul for her. And I can't wait for her to tell you the story of how hard it was for her to get her podcast started because it might resonate with so many of you out there. Diane Wingert is a mindset and productivity coach for female entrepreneurs. During her 20 year career as a licensed psychotherapist, she works with hundreds of ambitious women who struggle with habits and mindsets that help them back after realizing that psychotherapy was not the answer. Diane trained and certified as a coach in order to shift the conversation from problems to possibilities. Her jam is helping with the driven but distracted woman eliminate procrastination, perfectionists and people pleasing so she can level up her business and her life. She is an expert in ADHD and adult women and the mental health challenges of entrepreneurship. And wow, do I want to clap when I hear someone say mental health challenges from entrepreneurship. It is not for the faint of heart. It is not for those without the right mindset. It is not as easy as you think to be an entrepreneur and it is not as easy as you think to be a podcaster. Which is why I'm so glad that we're having this conversation with Diane today. So, the Driven Woman Podcast. Let's hear it from Diane Wingert.

Diane, thanks so much for joining me. You know, I love the model of your show, so I'm really excited for us to dive into how it works and how you developed it and what I learned today from listening to your podversary episode. And I love that title, podiversary. I love to make up words, I love that. But listening to that was I got to hear how much training and podcasting you actually took before you got your show started, would you tell the listeners out there? Because a lot of them are in that same place, that first off, because of who you are, reassure them that that's okay, but also tell them some of the trainings you took and what finally got you to start it.

I think this is a really interesting story. It's not what I'm necessarily proud of. In fact, it has some real cringeworthy moments. But the more podcasters I come in contact with, the more I realize this is actually not at all unusual. So my husband and I were going to move out of the country. In fact, we were going to move to the Middle east for a period of three years. So all of the things that I had been thinking about doing and not quite getting around to doing, like writing a book, launching a podcast, launching a course, and so forth, I decided, well, I just need to get all those trainings done while I'm here in the US And I have exposure to all the best people. Then I'll go to Abu Dhabi and I'll just crank, crank, crank, crank. So I took Pat Flynn's Power up podcasting course and I decided to do the fast track where it's high level VIP experience. You go to San Diego for a weekend, you're in a hotel, he gives you all the equipment. It's two full days with this team. They produce your show art. I mean, it's really, really a nice experience. And I didn't launch after that. Now, we did not go to the Middle east, so that was part of it. But months went by. I was still here in the US I still hadn't launched. So I took another podcast preparation course from a friend of mine, Jackie McDougall, called find you'd Voice. This was a very different kind of course, but I already had the equipment, I already had the show art, I had the name and everything, and I went through that. I was extremely helpful to all the other people taking that course because I was kind of a half a pro by that time. I knew more than the others, let's put it that way. So here I was being really helpful, giving other people feedback, taking action of my own, not so much. So here I was two years after. And in the meantime, Tracy, we're talking two courses now and probably no less than 10 books on Kindle about podcasting, about interviewing, about media and so on and so forth. And let's just say I had many thousands of dollars and many hundreds of hours, not to mention Listening to countless podcasts and taking notes on what I liked and what I didn't like. So I think in terms of my preparation for launching, you would have to give me an A. I do.

We have so many people who wing it, and you are the opposite of that.

And you know what? The thing is, is that my last name is Wingert, and I have been known for winging almost everything all life. So when it actually came to launching my podcast, it was uncharacteristic for me, Tracy, to be so bunched up, so overthinking, so over preparing. And I can't honestly say fully all the reasons why, other than I think I was just scared. I was just scared to put myself out there. And I don't know if I was more afraid of failure, success, criticism, nothing. I didn't even know. I don't even think I got that far in my mind. I was just getting ready, getting ready, getting ready. And what I can tell you now, anyone who's listening, who is in this place or going through this place and thinking, there will be a magic point where you will feel prepared enough, ready enough, learned enough, and then you'll pull the trigger. It's not true. It's simply not true. You could actually start tomorrow, and your show wouldn't be any worse than mine was when I first started.

But in yours was pretty good. So let's give yourself a lot of credit. That prep is evident. And I say this because I listen to thousands of podcasts over the time, so your prep has evidence. So it's actually very good. So you really didn't have a reason to be holding yourself back there. So glad you got over that. What did you do that sort of broke through for yourself? What was that thing that kind of helped you do that?

I got sick of myself. I honestly thought. I guess you could say it was my ego being completely honest. I was watching all these other people launch in the meantime, and I'm listening to their shows, and I'm thinking, I mean, that's okay. It's good. It'll get better. But there isn't anything that anybody else had, in my opinion, that made them any more qualified or deserving of having a podcast than me. And I realized I was just. Can I swear, by the way?

You can. We'll beep it, but you can swear.

I think I was just full of poop. I was full of excuses, and I got sick of myself. I just decided, okay, this is nonsense. You know, you are just making up excuses and believing them. And at some point, you're just going to talk yourself out of it altogether because you're going to think, well, now I've waited too long. And that was the moment when I thought, I just need to name it and claim it. I just need to set a date on it, tell somebody and just do it. And so really, it was nothing more than that. And I think I've gone through different periods of my life where I said I was going to do something and I didn't do it, and I said I was going to do something and I didn't do it. And then you realize you're kind of like the boy that cried wolf and people don't take you seriously. And I have big dreams, big goals and big plans, so if I can't take myself seriously, that's a problem. And then I said, I'm doing this. No turning back, no looking back. It doesn't even have to be good, it just has to be now and.

Well, more than a year later. Right? So you've been doing this how long?

I think we just published episode 61 this week.

61. So you've really made it. This is the thing. You celebrate your podiversary episode and you share about the podcast story, which I really love that you did that for your audience, because people are curious about that. There's lots of people who think, in the back of the mind, I could be a podcaster. They don't take action any. It comes with a behind the scenes reveal, which you do, and I love that about what you're doing. But you also took a moment to celebrate. And this is something that I feel that we don't do enough as humans, we don't do it enough as women, we don't do it enough.

Agree?

Yeah. And as podcasters, we don't. And that's why, for the first time ever, I'm working on my 100th episode. Your episode is going to come right before that. And I'm working on my 100th episode, trying to work on a very big celebration of not just me, but all the people who've participated who are still podcasting. Right. Because some of them are not. And I want to have a big shout out and celebration about that because as you point out in your podversity episode, there's a lot of pod fitting going on in there. So there's a lot of people who quit. And you didn't quit. You showed up week after week after week. And you should be so proud of that. And you should get to celebrate that. So kudos. To you.

But what I realized is there must be a critical mass when you've gone past that point that you're no longer at risk for pod fading. So at almost 25,000 episodes, I am past the point where they think I need those little pats on the head. So my team gives them to me and my listeners give them to me, but I need to give them to me because it is no small thing to be consistent at anything, even something you love, and to keep on going. I don't want it to get to the point, Tracy, where I'm just thinking, well, yeah, you have a podcast. It's one of the things that you do. And I'm like, no, girl, you're going to celebrate that 25,000. You're going to celebrate that 50,000. You're going to make a big deal. I say, I'm learning how to play a musical instrument, which is tooting my own horn, because that was always considered unprofessional before. And now I'm like, no, girl, you celebrate.

You have to celebrate this because it seems effortless on the other side. And your show does really have an effortlessly feel to it, which I'm sure is something you've learned from all the research you did. But that is not true. It's absolutely not true. As you have to really think these things through. You have to come up with great topics, you have to find the right guests that are going to be really good and add new value to your listener base. So these are not easy things to do. And yet you do that and you show up and you're not really being paid to do that. You're paying to do that.

That's the part that my husband still doesn't quite understand. Like, wait a minute, you're paying people to produce your podcasts, which. How many clients did you get from this? I'm like, it's a little more complicated than that. But, you know, my first career choice, I wanted to be in broadcasting and journalism. I have a communications degree from ucla and I got some really bad advice from a guidance counselor that talked me out of it. So I like to think that my podcast is finding my way all the way back to what I wanted to do many years ago and didn't. And I'm doing it now. And that's work, but it's also very satisfying.

So what made you decide, though, in the process? You did some podcasts. You were guest hosting, right? You were showing up as a regular on a. More of a radio style show, but still a podcast at the end of the day. So you've done that for a little while and then what made you say, I would like my own show? Besides the idea that you were going to go overseas and you know, you had some time, was there something about being in control of that show that interests you?

Yes, it was several things, Tracy. I was a regular guest expert on a radio style show and I think I did 10 or 12 episodes with them. And I also been a guest on about a dozen other podcasts over a couple of year period. And what I realized is that I never thought of myself as a creative, but I actually am very creative. I'm creative with words and ideas and I always had a limited idea of creativity being art. There's lots of ways to make art now, now more than ever. And if you are a wordsmith and you like people and you like storytelling, you are just as much a creative as anybody. But I didn't feel like I would have the same opportunity to express myself creatively as a guest because it's the other person's show and it has to fit their needs and their business plan and their priorities and so forth. I don't think I have fully explored all the ways that I can bring my creativity and my personality into the driven woman. But that is really, I think, what drives me most of all. Because there are no rules in podcasting. You can have a three minute podcast, you can have a three hour podcast, it's up to you.

And you don't have a radio station and advertisers to be beholden to. So there you go. There is a benefit to paying. That's what you're going to tell your husband. It's creative control.

Yes, I'm paying for my freedom.

That's right. We'll use whatever excuse we have to get that through. But there has to have been some authority that has come out of it, some benefit to you actually getting clients or getting speaking engagements or other things. What kind of authority has podcasting brought you in your business?

I think it has brought me all the things that I expected it to and more. And I'll explain specifically, I wanted to have an opportunity for creative self expression. I made the choice to have an explicit rating because I was a psychotherapist for 25 years. And in my private life I like to drop a lot of f bombs and a few other colorful words. But in my professional life, that was not something possible. So among other things, I saw the podcast as an opportunity for me to really be who I am, which is fully professional. And I also swear like a sailor sometimes, not all the time. So I think it's been allowing me to bring together different attributes. It has allowed me to, in fact, not only get new leads and new clients. 100% of the new clients I have worked with in the last year have come from hearing me on a podcast, mine or someone else's. And the way, if you want to call it a funnel, Tracy, the way it usually works is they will hear me on another show. They will say, oh, she has her own show, hop on over, binge through some of my show, get on my calendar for free, consult and become a client. And it has worked so consistently as a coach and consultant that I consider podcasting to be my primary marketing vehicle.

So then you have to tell your husband 100% of your client base.

It's absolutely true. Also, I love other podcasters and I love connecting, particularly with other female podcasters, because we are in the minority in the industry. And it just feels like it accelerates the know like and trust factor. I mean, I meet people on social media. I meet people on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, and so forth. I meet people in different groups, part of. And I'm a member of several online membership communities. I meet people in all those places. But when you have spent an hour with someone, like we're doing right now, it accelerates the relationship in a beautiful way. And it has led to a number of collaborations, writing, podcasting, content collaboration, me coming and giving a masterclass to people's communities. I love that. And I don't even have to leave the house, which is, even if it wasn't for Covid, like, this is just so great. That's right.

It totally is. Well, you know, as I was thinking as you're talking there, you mentioned binge listening to your show, and so you were a listener before you started taking the classes. So what I want to say is, to most people out there, the listeners are a rarity. So there are a lot of podcasters, a lot more than the majority, who do not listen to podcasts. Now there's an exception where there might be one who listens to all crime serials or something like that. So they do do that, but they aren't a. I'm going to call it a research style listener. One who's out there checking out other shows, modeling them, doing that. You've done that. Do you think that it has made you a better podcaster?

That's a really good question. Yes. I'll tell you why. About a third of my shows are guest Interviews. And I think we'll get into the different types of episodes that I do. And what I noticed is because I work with female entrepreneurs, there are a lot of podcasts by and for female entrepreneurs. This is a fast growing industry, if you will, coaching and consulting. And a lot of female entrepreneurs have podcasts to promote their business. A lot of them are interview style. And I have noticed there are particular things that almost all of them say in the intro in particular styles of interviewing. And I think because I'm a trained therapist, I know how to get people to talk, even people that don't want to talk about things they don't want to talk about. And I'm just a really nosy, curious person who really loves people and really loves helping people. So I think I brought a lot of skill to it, but I didn't know the media aspect. And having someone in a therapy room or even in a coaching call, it's different than an interview where you're really hoping to not only bring out the best in your guests so that you make them look good, but you're also demonstrating your own skill and expertise and relationship skills. Because the people that are listening might want to collaborate with you, might want to have you on their show, might want to be a client. So I think learning it started with what I noticed I didn't like. And maybe it's the process of elimination. Like, well, I'm not going to do this and I'm not going to do that, and I'm not going to do that. I don't think I've modeled myself after anyone, but I know right away what I like and what I don't like. And I think I've just instinctively moved away from that. Like, I love doing the client success story episodes, and they have turned out to be among my most popular. I don't think I thought it through strategically, like, well, this gives people the opportunity to hear what it would be like to be one of my clients and to see what kind of results I help my clients get. I first started doing it because I wanted to reconnect with some of my favorite people after they stopped working with me. I'm like, you got to come back and we need to have a chat. But then I realized, no, this is really very skillful and strategic, and people love them. And oftentimes those clients come back and work with me again or refer people to me. So there's nothing I don't like about it.

So you're a therapist, so I'm going to do my little bit of psychoanalysis here on your show. And right there is the tipping point to what is so great about your show. So you have clearly done interviewing study. You're great at asking questions and having curiosity. I can tell that you're curious deep about a topic. So when you do a topic episode, you've got stories and you've got books that you mentioned. So you've got a lot of details and information that is built in to what you're going to talk about and how you're going to talk about it. So your grasp of a concept, grasp of the person that you're going to interview, it's all there. But so often that's a media type model of where you're doing great interviews, you've got great prep, you've got the research, but if you leave it there and you fail to bring in the business side, and that's what I think you've done really well, is you've blended a model of podcasting where you've taken the best of the business ideas, the digital marketing ideas, the things that perhaps Pat Flynn taught you, right, some of those wonderful digital marketing ideas of how to grow your business, how to use your podcast as a funnel. You've taken the things that you liked about it that felt authentic to you and blended them with some wonderful media and attention to what the listener experience is, put them together into a show that is truly creatively and uniquely you. That's really where your binge factor lies, is that you've modeled it into that way instead of following a formula in one or the other place.

That's such fantastic feedback. It makes me very happy to hear because I think one of the reasons why I can be difficult to coach is that I'm not very good at following formulas. In fact, the idea that I need to kind of conform to the norm and be squished into any box, however delightful and successful the boxes, and however many people maybe avid fans, I just don't do that personally very well. There's always some part of me that's sticking out of the box. So I really just kind of made the show that would hit all the things that I needed. As an extrovert who is accustomed to working with people face to face, I've made the decision to go online, but I need it to be satisfying and I love getting to know people. I love going deep, I love storytelling and anecdotes and all that. So I really tried to craft the show that would be satisfying for me and would grow my business. It's working it is working. It sounds like it was so much more strategic than it was. And so I think you're helping me understand something, that all of that agonizing for those two years, I wasn't just piddling around and going in circles and doing nothing. I was working really hard processing what did I need to do to make this work for me? Because I knew I wanted a podcast, and I don't think I answered you directly. Why did I decide to have a podcast? Why didn't I just keep being a guest? And it was not just the creative freedom. It was, I'm an extrovert, Tracy. And I now work from home online. And even if it wasn't for Covid, the number of people I interact with face to face, compared to my former life, it's not even 2%. So it needed to be satisfying enough to meet my needs as a people person. And I think you're the same kind of person. So you know what I'm talking about.

I completely am. And people are as like, oh, wasn't the whole last year just so difficult for you? And I'd be like, no, it was great, actually. I got all the great benefits of connecting with people and doing the things that I love and getting curious about things and learning new things, and I got all of that without getting on an airplane and having the agonizing travel part that I don't love. So I got everything I wanted because I already had that system built in and I could just amp it up. So, yeah, I'm just like you, but I am eager to see people in person. Yeah, I am, too. I'm eager to shake hands and hug again and do all of those things. So.

You mentioned this briefly, and I want to tap into it before we head into our five things. You have different types of shows. Yes, and this is something that I've talked about again and again. There's another coach who does this, Kim Seltzer, who does the charisma quotient. And she has three different types of shows that she does, and I use them as examples for models. And I've really discovered that your case study show is one of my favorite now. New examples that I know I will be telling people about again and again and again. But tell us about the three types of shows you have and how you decide which one that's going to be, which week, and how you're going to rotate that.

I'd love to. It's really been an organic process that I have figured out over the last year. And one more thing I mentioned I wanted to say is that I know that Covid has been disastrous for millions of people the world over. For me, an ADHD fuels entrepreneur who has lots of ideas and lots of plans and tends to be running in 10 different directions at the same time. I don't know that the Driven Woman podcast would have gotten launched if it hadn't been for Covid. Because what Covid did for me, at least in the beginning, was to create a distraction free environment where I could focus, make choices and get moving. Now I've learned how I don't need to just be in a cave and get things done, because now I have a process.

You got it all under your belt there.

It's all working. But I developed the three different shows over time. Initially, you'll notice that the first 25 podcast episodes are short. Many of them are around 10 minutes, all solo shows. And I basically had written. I wrote and wrote and wrote. I lived in LA all my life. And we moved two years ago, not to Abu Dhabi, but to Portland, Oregon, which has been in the news quite a bit lately. But we moved and I don't know a single person. And thanks to Covid, I kind of still don't. So the first year we were here, I did a ton of writing. I probably wrote a hundred blog posts, and many of them turned into my first 25 episodes because I already had the content. I knew I liked podcasting and I decided I'm just going to launch with a solo show. I decided not to interview guests at first for two reasons. One, I wasn't really happy with a lot of the interview show formats that I was hearing. They all sounded the same. And I noticed that many of the interview style podcasts, people don't really feel that confident interviewing. And so they'll ask a question and then they'll go right on to the next question. I'm that person who wants to go to the next level down and the next level down and the next level down. Forget the whole rest of the questions I have on the paper. I'm going to follow my curiosity and my interest to bring out a story from this person that maybe they haven't even shared on another podcast. That's what drives me. So I didn't want to start doing interviews until I was certain that I liked being a podcast host. I didn't know if I could create the systems, if I could create the consistency, if I liked talking to myself enough to not just be a guest. So I thought 25 episodes, that ought to do it. By then I had the systems and I was starting to get a little bored talking to myself in the closet. So I started doing the guest interviews. And I think I'm trying to remember exactly when I did the first client success story. I didn't even plan that. By that time I thought, okay, I'm just going to alternate solo guest. Solo guest, solo guest. That's a nice cadence. That works for me. I'm not always talking to myself and I don't have to do quite as much outreach to line up guests and all that, but I ended up having such a fantastic relationship with one of my clients and I just wanted to tell the whole world about the results that we created together. So I said, hey, what if you come on my podcast and we just talk about what we did and I just share that. I think it'll give your business a boost and I think it's an interesting story and people loved it. So it was, I guess, in a way, kind of an experiment or even just an impulse. Maybe it could have been a one time thing, but I thought, oh, I like this. And then I started, as a result of podcasting and being a guest on other shows, I started attracting more ideal clients. So naturally that led to more client success stories. And now I have a whole bunch of them lined up to record because I love doing them and people love to be able to say, this is where I was and here's where I am now. And it's thanks to you. I mean, they want to do it right.

And that's the thing that you're allowing them, that little bit of celebration that they maybe didn't get in their regular life and what's going on the business, because it maybe happened slower there, but here you get to talk about it and it's like the sped up model of, wow, look where I was and where I am now, Yay. So that's also important too in your process.

I agree with you though completely, Tracy, that women in particular don't stop and celebrate. All the women I know are ability, high achieving, very driven, very type A, very success minded, and we kind of take all of our accomplishments for granted. It's like, yeah, of course I got an A, I'm an A student. Next. And it's like, no. Like one day you will burn out, I promise you. So let's celebrate, celebrate, celebrate. Even if you don't think you need it, even if you don't think it's a big deal. It's a big deal. Just do it anyway.

I had a coach who once Said to me, tracy, when have you ever celebrated. When have you celebrated a birthday? When have you done any of those things? And I was like, I don't know. Celebration usually means, like, okay, I did it. Now where's the next goalpost, right? You know, it's like, that's not a celebration. And the ironic part is that I actually never had a lot of birthdays. And I'm not blaming my parents or anything. I love my parents. They always made me feel special. But I never had a lot of birthdays. My birthday is right before Christmas, like, literally right before Christmas. And my sister's birthday's five days apart from mine. So bad timing. It's the worst time of year to have a party. So we just never had a lot of parties. So I went into, as an adult, one of my businesses that I had quite a while ago, but I threw birthday parties for tween girls. And I used to throw, like, nine birthday parties a week in this store that I had. And so my husband goes, haven't you celebrated enough? So, like, there was like, yeah, but again, I celebrated everybody else. It's still not me at the end of the day. So, yeah, this is one of my things that I'm focusing on and working on.

Personally, I think you like extremes. I think we could be very good friends.

I think we could be absolutely. Well, let's talk a little bit about the five things, because I want to make sure that we touch on them, because you're doing some things that are interesting in the way that you've structured your business. So let's talk of the business of podcasting. You structured the business of podcasting. So let's talk about this. Have you really put a specific effort into finding the right type of guests that are not your case studies? Because obviously you know who those people are. But getting other types of guests, what do you do to get ones that you think are going to be valuable to your audience?

I think this is where I am right now, Tracy. To go to the next level with my podcast, I've already identified one of the things I need to do. When you have an interview style show and you are listed on any of the directories, audrey.com, matchmaker FM, Podchaser and so forth, you will start getting pitched, like, a lot. And some of them are real randos. I'm like, did you read the description of my show before you sent me this email? And some of them are like, oh. And I think you have to be careful and strategic because at first it may seem very flattering that all these things me want to come in my show, that's cool. And you might be inclined to say yes to a bunch of the wrong people. So I think I do a very good job of screening the pitches with my team of who is actually a good fit. I've gotten really good at saying no without feeling guilty or being overly apologetic. I think I'm getting better at the outreach and identifying. But I think it's a totally different skill set to go searching than it is to sift through those that come to your doorstep. And in my experience, and I'm sure you have a lot to say about this, those that pitch me are usually not as desirable as the ones that I will pitch. So it's getting out there. And my very first career was in medical sales. So I know how to market and sell. I just need a good strategy for doing that so that I'm not wasting time and so that I can increase my close rate. I think I've been doing this long enough now and skillfully enough that I'm ready to learn the skill of being more strategic about finding those just right guests. So I think that's a need I've identified.

That's a really good one. And well, I'm going to talk a little bit about that in a totally separate episode because I think you could benefit from that and so could some others. So I'm going to talk about how I do it for this show and I'll definitely share that with you, Diane, because I think now that I'm hearing that that's a specific niche within it that is kind of special. So how do you really go about to really up that level for yourself? So wonderful. That's a great find though for yourself. After doing some guesting and having guests, you've gotten it from both sides and you realize this is the next step of how I want to next level my podcast and show. So increasing listeners. Have you thought about your listener base? How do you go and outreach them? What do you do to promote and get more listeners?

That's another area that I think I can be more skillful at. I think the show has, from what I understand compared to the statistics, I think is having a decent amount of growth. But to say, okay, I want to have more listeners in Canada, for example, or I want to reach out more to the UK or I think I can get a lot more listeners in Australia, basically just talking about all the English speaking countries. I don't have a strategy for that. I wouldn't know the first thing about that, what I've been thinking about is I understand, and you can correct me if I'm wrong on this, that podcasting, even though it's been around for 20 years, it's still young enough that most people hear about a podcast from word of mouth. So I think it would be really terrific to have a campaign, this is on our marketing list for Q3, to make some sort of a incentive or a campaign for current listeners to make it super easy and rewarded to share this podcast with one woman. You know the one. I don't know exactly what the details will be, but I think that would be a not too difficult and not too expensive strategy. Each listener tells one person. Now, I'm at 50k, like, boom. So that's all I've come up with so far. And I do intend to do that.

But I like that because your audience is comprised of women who are great sharers, right? I mean, it's kind of inherent in who we are, that we're out there. We have a great product, we found a great podcast, we like to share it. And now you're reminding them that that's the best thing they can do to reward you for bringing them a great show. That's an easy ask, and I think.

It'S much better at this point. I have been asking and you've heard the podcast. So, you know, every episode I share a review, and if the woman isn't a business owner, I will tag her and shout out her and her business in the show, notes on the episode in social media and so forth. But I think at this point, I know that reviews don't really do anything for your ratings or how many people you get seen by. But if each listener shares it with one person, I think that's probably a much better call to action. Then, hey, don't forget to send me your review at this point.

Well, you know, and I don't know necessarily that reading review is going to get you more reviews, because reviewing is an extremely difficult thing in the podcasting ecosystem in general. It really is only an Apple thing. You can do liking and following on Spotify. And there are some apps like GoodPods, where you can do star reviews and things like that, but they're really just. It's not simple. But what it does do is say someone took the time to reach out to you, Diane, and tell you what a great show you are that helps other people. It has that social proof reinforcement to them, first off that they're in the right place, they're listening to a good show. And secondly, they can reach out to and you're going to personally respond to that. So I actually think it's a really good thing that you do that. And I do like that feature of your show.

Hmm. Okay. Well then I can incorporate and alternate.

Yeah. And don't just do it like a review on your podcast. Maybe it's somebody left you a message on Instagram or you could be a little broader in your response from it. So it's just more of a here's feedback people have left me instead of straight reviews. And that way you could just broaden it up for yourself.

This is really great. I will do that because I created a feature on Instagram called Driven Women of Instagram because it's the Driven Woman podcast. So when I meet a like minded woman on Instagram, I grab a photo of her and I make a post and I tag her and I talk about her business and so forth. And so I can just incorporate the podcast reviews in that as well. I also have speak pipe on my website and I think only a couple people have used it.

That's a Pat Flynn thing. I recognize that because I learned from the great too. And so we incorporated in our first podcast and I think one person left us a message before we eventually said, this just isn't the way. It's not simple enough. People would rather just send you a DM or send you a text message, send you an email, whatever their preferred modality of communication is. I don't want to mess with that. So we just make it easy for everyone.

Now making it easy is at this point in time, DM me on Instagram. There you go.

Easy. We'll do that. So producing like a pro. You obviously have production team and other things, but what do you do specifically to prepare for your show?

I am the one who selects the guests. I am the one who chooses the topics. I have started working in themes where I'm doing this theme for this month. So I'm trying to line up guests that are speak on that theme and so forth. I do the strategic planning around it and I record. I do not do my own editing, I do not create my graphics or any of that. But I obviously approve everything that the team does. But we record a podcast, video and audio, we run it through a transcribing software. It gets made into blog posts, it gets made into social media posts. I create the graphics for my team and also to share with the guest, I send it out an email. So I would say the pieces that I am exclusively responsible for, I Do choose my own guess I wouldn't mind handing that over. I just feel like I don't like to hand anything off that I don't really understand yet. I don't want to be that hands off. So once I understand it and I can give the proper level of oversight, then I'm more than happy to let someone take it away. But I've been in this situation in the past, Tracy, where someone on my team knew more about something than I did by a long shot. And then they left and I really felt like I was up the creek without a paddle. So I don't want to be in that situation again. So choosing the guest, setting the strategy and recording and those are my pieces exclusively.

I love that. You know, I've done thousands of interviews of people and I have never had someone choose my guests for me. Although I have been testing out and you came through the process. So I'm really proud that that part's working. I do get so many sort of requesting and people who nominate others and other things like that that I have had a team do a quick screen through it and will like say, I don't think this person's right because of that. But my person who's been doing it, my assistant Marianne, she's been doing this fabulous job where she mentioned something she really loves about your show and she'll just say that as like, I think this would make a good guess and I really like this about her show. And it was your reviews that you do at the beginning. That feature that she mentioned was unique. And because she helps me process all of the post production side of everything, she's making sure it flows for me. She knows what I like to highlight. So she has learned me well enough to highlight something that would attract my attention. And then of course I check out all the other information and say, oh, Diane is perfect for my show. And so you made it to the top of the list faster because she happened to highlight something that was a great feature. But if you can have someone reliable to kind of do that early screening for you, then at least you've got a filter. If you have too much volume coming.

Through, I would appropriate that. I mean, because it's too time consuming, it doesn't make sense for me to send someone a thanks but no thanks email, even if it's a copy and paste. That's not the best use of my time.

Exactly. And that's what they do for me is like they'll screen out that because, you know, if they don't even have close to 50 episodes. They're really probably not right for my show yet. And so it helps me just not even have to waste my time reviewing that. But then there's a gem in there. You never know. There's a gem in there where someone had only 20 episodes, but it's their third show and they'll find that for me where if we had just made it a hard and fast rule, then they wouldn't qualify. So that's where the team does help a little bit. But I love that this goes back to that creative control. That's what you're doing really well, is you're keeping that creative curation and control. You're saying that is core to what's great about my show and I don't want to lose that in this process. So I built these specific things that I do need to be responsible for and you're keeping control of that. That's what makes the show a high level production.

Thank you for that. I think what you said a moment ago, Tracy, about having someone really well trained to know what you're looking for, they kind of need to work with you for a little while and know how you think and be motivated to please you. Like, look what I found, you know, and there are people like a personal shopper. Like, I don't like shopping. Never like shopping. If I had someone who literally knew me, knew my body, knew my style, knew my taste, knew my preferences as well as I did, and loves to go out in the wild and find something and bring it back and go look and they're super excited. I was like, you are going to be with me forever.

That's.

I could find that person for the podcast like you. You go find me those perfect guests and then lure them in here and then I'll chat them up and we'll love each other forever.

We'll get this. We're going to have a great relationship going on.

Right?

Exactly.

I love it.

Well, good. Now, encouraging engagement. So you've been working on your Instagram and other things. How are you encouraging conversation with your audience and with your guests as well? Because some of them are former and current clients. So you want to encourage engagement with them because then they come back and they do some more work with you or they refer someone.

You're hitting all the areas where I need help, to be quite honest, because I would say that the only thing I don't like about podcasting and you're going to know exactly where I'm headed, it's a one way conversation. Unless you know the right answers to these five questions, because it does feel like I kind of thought, well, once I stop the solo shows where I'm just literally talking to myself in the closet and I start having interviews, I will be completely satisfied. No, I'm coming back to the point that I'm a really curious human, and I love that the numbers keep going up and I love that I keep getting these terrific reviews, but there are hundreds of people out there who are listening regularly, and I don't have any idea why or who they are. That drives me a little crazy because I literally want to call every one of them up and go, what do you like? What don't you like? What can I improve? And of course, I asked for that feedback, but that's just. It's too cumbersome and probably scary. But the ones who would like to do that, I want to create avenues that are exciting and fun and where they feel really, really appreciated. I had one listener who heard me on another show where I mentioned that I'm kind of obsessed with Ren and Stimpy. And if you don't know what Ren and Stimpy are, you might be like, really? Wow. I wouldn't have guessed that. But I even sang the long song with the host of the other show because I know it by words. This. This during the years that I was raising my kids and we watched it faithfully, and I wear Ren and Stimpy T shirts out in Portland and people shout me out with them all the time. So I was talking about Ren and Stimpy, and this woman heard me on the podcast, and then she started listening to my podcast and then started following me on Instagram and then started doing. And one day she said, would you mind giving me your mailing address? I made something for you. And she literally made a travel bag for my podcast. Well, that's what I'm using it for. She didn't tell me what to use it for, but I use it as a travel bag for my mic, for my headphones and all that when I need to take them somewhere else. And a little warmer for my coffee mug and a sticker. She's a creative, super creative person, Just keeps making tons of stuff, loves my show, and literally made me several personalized items just for me. So I'm like, so fabulous, super, super satisfying. And obviously I'm not trolling for people to send me gifts. But. But if we could have more of a back and forth conversation, I would love to have listeners come on the show. In fact, I've been Thinking about whether that will be my 100th episode, but I don't know. You can tell me. Will most people take you up on that or will they be like, see, that's.

It's hard, especially in certain areas. Right. And your particular topic area might be more difficult than others.

Yes.

Because if I am a woman with ADHD and I'm a driven woman, do I want other people to know? Do I want to voice that out? Or is this a hidden gem of help that I'm. I'm kind of hiding it. Right. And we all have those Kindle books that we don't want anyone to know that we're reading. We all have the podcasts that we don't actually put in our playlist, but we've subscribed. You know, those are the things that are personal to us. And some of our shows are like that. And that doesn't bode well for engagement, but it does bode well for someone reaching out when they're ready for help. So it does lead to clients, and we have to remember that, but it.

Does lead to clients. However, you are speaking to my pain point, not only for my podcast, for my business, is that I am that best kept secret. And in order to grow and reach and help more people and have more impact in the world, you need to be shareable and you need to be something that people don't feel reluctant to talk about and to say, yeah, I listen to this. I had a gentleman send me a review, and he actually DM'd me and said, is it okay that I'm one of your regular listeners? I love your podcast, but I have to confess, I'm a man. I laugh so hard, almost peed my pants. I'm like, of course, you're welcome. Some of my favorite clients are men. They've always been men. I have two sons. I have a husband. I have a male daughter. But I market to women because I find the things that I talk about tend to cause more pain for women. But I don't exclude men. I just don't shout them out. So I thought that was funny, too. But I would love to have more back and forth. I'd love to have more engagement. Obviously, Speak Pipe is not the way to go.

Yeah. I mean, because again, it's still them leaving a message. So it's still one way. Right? We need that dialogue going. Well, there's some new things, and this is why I asked this question, because some people are onto something that's working and some people aren't. And what are Some ways that these things can start working for us. And there's group ideas. Some people are using Clubhouse. Facebook is starting their version of it. Twitter has theirs. LinkedIn is coming with one that I hear could be really great, and that might be ideal for the type of woman you're inviting in. But then again, it might not, because what if it exposes to her LinkedIn audience that she's participating in this? Like, you know, maybe she doesn't want that. So, you know, this is where we just don't know till we research, test them, see who's doing something well there. And that's part of why I keep asking this question, because maybe we'll hit on something that is like, oh, that one would work for me, even though it didn't work for you.

I love that.

Yeah. So the last question I usually ask of our five questions is about monetizing your show. And clearly you've already said that money's going out, not necessarily coming in, although clients are. But have you thought about that? Is it even important to you to monetize your show in any way?

Well, that's the M word that at some point everybody talks about. I think of monetizing my show as it's my lead marketing platform and I attract content collaboration partners. I attract speaking opportunities. I was just interviewed for a guest expert for a book as a result of my podcast. So I see myself monetizing my show. I just was pitched by my very first potential sponsor. And so I'm needing to make a decision about that philosophically. Do I want to have any advertising? Do I want to have any sponsors? I've been thinking up until now, no, because I'm. You said the C word, and I admit it, I do like control. But when I think about monetizing, I think I understand there's now the paid subscription podcast, and that is something I'm interested in, because not everyone who would benefit from learning from me is going to become a coaching client. Might they purchase a subscription to a special RSS feed, special podcast that does a deeper dive? And I don't just inform you about something, but I give you action steps and some kind of accountability. I'm open to that. I love being relatively new in the development of this new media because of all the places it might go, and I just have to slow my roll and not try to jump on every bus that's coming through town and just say, okay, which ones are the right fit for where I want to go?

Yeah, it's good. I love that when people are Taking a pace, taking the time to decide whether monetization is right for them, because you can take in a sponsor and then realize that you exchanged hundreds of dollars for pennies at the end of the day because it actually turned out to be a detriment to your show. And you just don't know if that's going to be the case or not. And then there are other sponsors where it's extremely valuable to you and your show and it creates a great joint venture partnership and other things. We just had Crystal o' Keefe, who has a great partnership with Peloton for her show. The clip out makes complete sense that she's doing that right. The show is all about them and they don't compromise her ability to criticize them and talk about what they're not doing. Right. It doesn't compromise that at all. It's just encouraging more conversation in the community and they're good with that. So she also set up the structure of the monetization right for her as well. So, you know, there's always a way to get around that. So take it slow. I especially take it slow if the show is really doing so much great lead generation for you. It can be so difficult to start in certain monetization in and have it derail all of that. And months and months go by and you realize, wow, I didn't get as many speaking engagements and I didn't get as many clients and how did this happen? And it's not always then a direct path back to that monetization choice you made.

Yeah. I've also thought another thing I'd like to get your feedback on this, Tracy, is that podcast collectives are kind of a thing and I've sort of looked at them with a little bit of a side eye because I'm not really sure about the benefits. I like having the creative control and the freedom, but as a sole operator, you're a little bit lonely and not as well connected. So where I see monetization being most beneficial to my personality, my stage of life and my show and business is more collaborating with other content creators who are serving adjacent audiences where we create things together that have been are benefit to both of us.

I'm a fan of a collective, or sometimes we call them pods. If you're an Instagram, that might be an Instagram pod or a LinkedIn pod. When there's a lot of similarities in audience, when you have too much diversity there, we tend to have it not work out for us.

It gets watered down.

Yeah. Just being in A women's collective could actually be detrimental to you, but being in a women's CEO collective could be extremely beneficial to you. Right. So picking and choosing. And I'm a fan of, like, going in and participating and finding out how it feels before you really dive all the way in. So any that can allow you to sort of test it out is always a good plan for me. I've been testing out a few LinkedIn collectives, and some of them just are not working out.

It's kind of like all entrepreneurship, Tracy. I think being willing to try something and know that you can always say, you know what? It wasn't for me.

It was an experiment. Right. We learn a lot from our research and experimentation. So I am a fan of always being curious, trying something, experimenting, but also being able to say, yeah, that didn't meet the expectations I had. But I always go in with the screener of, I'm not just going to try anything and everything. I need it to be an audience match. And if there's not a clarity of that, then I'm going to say, let's wait a little bit longer so you can answer some more of my questions about this. And then maybe then it would be the right time for me.

Agreed? 100%.

Well, good. Well, before we go, I want to make sure, Diane, that you give our. You're a therapist here, so, you know, not anymore. Yeah, an ex therapist.

Former therapist.

Former therapist. But you can't leave that behind. There's got to be some things that you've, like, noticed from some people that are podcasting or thinking about podcasting that's been hanging them up. What advice do you have for our audience who might be in those lists? Sort of like on the cusp. Am I going to keep my show? Do I keep going, or do I even start my show?

I think the questions that a person who's thinking about podcasting are a little bit different than the person who's thinking about, should I continue? So the person who's thinking, should I do it? Is they're dealing with fears about visibility. They're dealing with fears about, who am I? What do I have to say? Imposter issues, who am I? Do I know enough? Can I do this? Will I like it? Will anyone care? And so forth. So those are those anticipatory kind of questions that hold us back from all kinds of things. Having kids, changing careers, getting married, moving, all of those things. And so I think, give yourself a deadline for how long you are going to think about it and then decide I like the notion of put it in your calendar and make yourself accountable to someone else and tell them not to let you wiggle out of it. Like, okay, I'm going to make a decision, and I'm going to decide by this day. And whatever the decision is, I'm going to live with that decision for three months. I can reconsider after three months. Sometimes we will put off making a decision, and then when we are told, well, since I can't commit to it right now, it's a no, and then we find ourselves wanting to do it twice as much, and then you're actually ready. Just a little bit of a trick, but I think it can work for people who have difficulty just pulling the trigger. For the person who's already podcasting and is maybe, let's say, 10 episodes in, so they're not in that trying to figure out what goes where and what's an RSS feed, they're past that point, but they're realizing the novelty is worn off, the shiny object syndrome has worn off, and they're realizing, oh, this is actually a practice, it's a commitment, and it's a routine, and it needs to be a part of my life that has dedicated focus and effort and consistency. I think it's really important to ask yourself what your why is at that point. Why am I doing this? Am I doing this because I'm a solopreneur and everyone else in my online community said, oh, I'm starting a podcast, and I just hopped on the bandwagon, but I actually don't know what I'm doing here? That might be a really good opportunity to pause and reconsider. But I think fundamentally, being able to stick with something once the novelty wears off, especially as a person with adhd, you kind of have to give yourself a chance to say, okay, you know what? It was an impulse. I followed it. I jumped on the bus. I didn't even ask where the destination was, and I really don't want to go there anymore. It's okay. You can just tell your audience, you know, how many things I've walked away from in my life. And the only change I would make is I would probably walk away from just as many things, but I would let go of the guilt and shame I felt for doing so. Because if you are taking chances, they're not all going to work out. And if this is one of the chances you took and it's not working out, be honest with yourself and let it go. But if you're just realizing, oh, crap, this is work, and I'm not feeling the passion that I was when I first started, when it was new and shiny. Of course you're not. You're not getting the same dopamine. You have to connect with something bigger, big enough to keep you going. And you probably need to be part of a support network.

I'm going to say I'm so glad you said that, because I do think that's key.

It's really key. Because you know what? Anything hard done over time, you're going to wane in your motivation and your desire. That's life, people. But if you are part of a support group, not a support group. You know what I mean? A supportive community of people that have all declared, we're doing this, they will keep you in the game. And I belong to one for peloton. I belong to. I mean, I belong to auxiliary. Because you know what? It doesn't matter how motivated you are at the beginning. What will make it worth your while is sticking with it over time because results do accumulate. Podcasting is a long game, and if anybody told you there's going to be overnight success, don't listen to that person anymore. It's sticking with it and trying new things and getting whatever level of support and camaraderie you need to staying with it. I think that's what makes all the difference, at least for me.

Diane, truly a driven woman yourself. I see that. And I so appreciate that you are bringing the Driven Woman podcast into the world and that you have committed to it and that you're keeping going and keeping the excitement going and making tweaks and adjustments and growing along the way. You deserve so much credit for all that you've accomplished and for all you keep going on, and that in and of itself is accomplishment.

Thank you. And like you, I'm not one who necessarily stops for the Echolod, so I received that from you. You've given me so many great ideas today for all the things that I can follow up on and will do, and I really, really appreciate it.

Oh, you're very welcome. Diane Winger, the driven woman. You're going to want to check out her podcast.

I just love how Diane is so honest about, like, where she is at her show and that this is a work in progress and that it is a combination of working the business aspects of it and working the personal aspects of it. This is just great. I love this kind of honesty and authenticity in having this conversation because so often we get some people in here and they posture about how great their show is and how successful they are. And when we can have that really conversation about, yeah, I think I'm doing some things right, but there are other things that I'm just really looking for, what that next thing is, then we can start to have a collaborative conversation around how to move podcasting to deliver those things. Because you're not alone, Diane's not alone in the same issues that she's having with trying to increase her listeners and trying to get engagement. And you're not alone. Diane was there for you when you were trying to figure out how to get your voice and message out to the world. And you're sitting there maybe with some of those things that are holding you back. And listening to someone like Diane be able to tell you what it took for her to make that decision, what it took for her to bring that accountability to herself, to be able to bring her show out, and now how rewarding that show is for her and for her business, that's going to really help you move forward as well. So these are the kinds of conversations I was hoping that the binge factor would be bringing out in all of us and bringing out for you. Because as Diane mentioned, this is a one way conversation. And while Diane and I were having a nice two way collaborative conversation, I don't get to hear from you enough and I don't get to have that conversation from you. So I have to go off of what I hear from my clients day in and day out, what I hear from Diane and the other great guests that I bring on this show, and when I hear from them again and again, and I have to interpret that and say, if they're having these problems and they're successful, then someone who's just getting started or who maybe doesn't have the support system or the bandwidth or the team that someone like Diane Wingert has, then they might need answers to these questions, or they might need some of these tips and tactics and ideas to help them move forward as well. So that's where you all fall out there. But as with Diane, you can reach out to us. You can reach out to Diane at the Driven Woman. You could check out her show, she said DM her on Instagram. So she gave you direct access to that. As always, for every expert that we have in here, you can go right into the blog post for this episode@the bingefactor.com and you'll be able to connect up through all of that. And as I mentioned it briefly on the show, GoodPods. GoodPods is one of these great new apps that are out there. And I say it's not new because it's been out for a while, but it's got some new features on it that are really going to serve you well if you're an indie podcaster. So you're going to want to check that out and you're going to want to see what Diane is doing with it and how she's getting highlighted. Because I took the time to listen to her show on Good Pods, I actually got her a listener right then and there while I was doing my research. And so I was able to highlight her and get her seen as what I was listening to. So it made other people want to listen to her. Isn't that kind of a cool environment? So we're going to do some more with good pods. I'm going to get J.J. ramberg on because she's one of the co founders of it. I'm going to get her on the show. We're going to talk some more about how we can start this more collaborative conversation with our listeners. With our audience and how we can maybe push them into some apps that are serving them better than the general podcast apps that are out there that while they're great, they're getting us listeners, but maybe they're not serving that conversational mode, that engagement mode that we're all seeking and maybe there's some other tools out there. So we're going to start looking for them and we're going to start talking about them. So be looking for that. Go check out Diane Wingert show the Driven Woman. There's a couple of things I want to point out to you that you should really take a look at. Take a listen to how she reads the review. Remember we talked about that. It's a really excellent way she could expand that. Talk about how somebody mentioned her on Instagram. Talk about somebody who might have DMed her like, so she can broaden it not just to be rating and reviews. That way you're covering a broader audience, but you're giving that social proof right at the beginning of your show and. And you're giving a shout out. So you're kind of moving that engagement up. So that's going to be really good. Really. Take a listen to the different types of episodes she has. Take a listen to those solo episodes. Take a listen to how she does the case studies. I especially want you to take a listen to those because the case studies don't sound like this glorified testimonial for her. They're actually really a story based conversation, a deep dive into where that client of hers was at the beginning, where they're moving to, where they achieve some level of success, where they're moving to next. And it gives Diane the opportunity to create a further conversation with someone so she can nurture her clients into being returning clients or getting the next step clients. She can also remind them that she was a part of that success with them and gain a referral from that. So you don't need someone to rave about you on the air as much as you need to have be in that conversation with them. And she does it beautifully in those episodes. So take a look at the case study episodes. Those are some really great ones as well. So these are just some things I wanted to mention. The one thing I really loved her advice for and I really want you to take home is that waiting too long. Right? Don't wait too long to get this started. Name it, claim it, do it. Just like she's urging you to be driven women and men out there to start her podcast. So Diane Wingert, thank you for inspiring us today with the Driven Woman podcast, the Binge Factor. We'll be back next week with another podcaster to give you some new tips, tactics, strategies and ideas for how to make your show successful too.

You've been listening to the Binge Factor Podcast. For more information on podcasting and videocasting success tips and tactics, please go to thebingefactor.com and be sure to listen to our other show for podcasters called Feed you'd brand. If you'd like to be interviewed on this show as well as featured in Tracy's column, please go to thebingefactor.com guest and apply.

SA.