Story-Based Podcast Descriptions That Make Your Listener The Hero

Hey, everyone. Welcome to Feed. You'd brand. I'm Tom Hazard along with my co host, Tracy. Today we are going to talk about story based podcast descriptions.

Yeah. We're talking about specifically making the listener the hero here. So when we think about story based storytelling, right, we always think, oh, there's a hero in our story. There's of course going to be trials and tribulations, right? There's going to be, you know, call to adventure, call to action, like all those things are going to occur. We always think about it, writing it, like in the third person, like it's about someone else. And a lot of times we think that it's always about us, right? Like we're the hero to our clients, we're the hero to our listeners. And that is not the case. No. We're the Yoda, right? We're the guide, we're the guru. And sometimes we're just a guide who's just a few steps in front of the people behind us, right. We're not necessarily this amazing expert guide, right? So that's our role in the process as a podcaster. We're a guide in the podcasting world. We're the guide in the story. So when we start to frame that, well, then who is the hero? Well, the hero is our listener. The hero is our subscriber. The heroes are potential clients, right? So we want them to follow the journey. We want this to be their story. It's really about them at the end of the day. And this is something you and I talk about all the time. Whether we're designing cover art, we're designing descriptions for our podcasts show, or our episodes, we're always working on focusing on that listener.

Absolutely. You really want the listener to feel when they read your description, when they see really most aspects of your podcast listing, your podcast identity, that this is for them. You want them to feel like, wow, that sounds just like me, or it's just what I need, or that's the journey that I wish that I were already on. And they feel like by listening they're going to get support.

So whenever we start a story now, I want you to think about this like mini episodes, mini stories, right? Mini adventures. You have an overarching big one that is the adventure of becoming my client. And then I'm going to take you to the big success point, right? So I've got this process that I want to. But everything. We want to look at it also in micro so you can apply these ideas that we're going to talk about to a Landing page. You can provide that. You can do them for an article. I follow this model all the time when I'm writing an article. You can do it when you structure your episodes. You can do it when you write the description for what your episode was about. You can do it when you write your show description, which is your overarching 4000 character description, which this is the model that I teach our team to write from what you say to us. So if you've ever watched one of our episodes, when we talk about creating a description, we have you record and answer multiple questions, right? Different questions. And the first section we always talk about is tell us about the problems, the issues, the aspirations of the listener. We make you start there because every good story starts there. The hero has a problem or they have a need. A need. They want to do something, they want to become something, they want to be something, right? The hero is in a quantity, right? Like that. We're always starting at that place. So we make you start there when we ask you to sort of talk your way through the description when we structure it, I'm going to talk a little bit about how we write it later, but we take it from there. And then our team, when we write it, we structure in a format. So I always write what I call the leading paragraph, which you might want to think about as your podcast episode description or the first paragraph of your show description is a leading paragraph. Paragraph. And a leading paragraph actually covers a little bit more of teasing the journey, right? We're teasing that hero's path. So we're going to start, though, always with the call to action of the want, the need. What is it you want to accomplish? Right? What is it you want to get done? Who do you want to become? Where is that want and need coming from? And that's where we're always going to start. So the hero has a problem, and then they meet the guide, they meet us, they meet the host of the show. So now I'm going to talk a little bit about you, right? We're going to mention something about us. Now, of course, if we're doing this in a show description or in the leading paragraph, it's a small part, it's a phrase.

It's not your resume, it's not your whole bio. It's really a glimpse. It's just enough to give the listener an idea that you're a credible messenger.

Right? Now, if you're doing an episode description, that's your guest. This is the point where you bring in your guest, where you're talking about? What aspect of that journey are they going to talk about? What are they an expert in? What are they an example of? Why are they someone that's five steps in front of me of where I want to go in my journey? Even if they're not the expert, you're still sitting back as the host of the main experts. So thinking about this being a health journey, for instance, that maybe your podcast is about the journey to good health. So if your podcast is about this, obviously, I am in want and need as a listener of good health, and you, as the host of the show, are providing me good stories, good people, good products, detailed information that's going to help me achieve my goal of good health. Right. Achieve the summit that I want to climb. Right. And there might be some specialists along the way you're introducing us to. So you want to make sure to highlight why they're special, why are they a specific guide on something? Because it's okay to bring in a supplementary expert. That's an okay thing. So. But we want to highlight that. So that's our. Who's our helper along the way. Right? Like, that's sort of the part. Who's our guide? Who's our helper? Who's going to give us that? You are providing this overarching plan and idea of the path to success, the path to the summit, the path to whatever it is that they want to achieve. The solution to the problem. You're not giving them the solution, you're giving them the path. That's really careful. So when we're a guide, when we're a coach, we don't give them the answers. They need to discover the answers for themselves. This is the hero's journey. Right. If you don't discover the answer for yourself, you're not really going to learn it. Right. Dorothy doesn't get to go home by clicking her heels in, you know, the beginning of the show. She had to discover it for herself.

Okay.

That's right.

1939 reference podcasting. We'll take it.

Right? So, well, you know, hey, we can't all be, you know, Luke. So. Right. We might beat Dorothy. So, yeah. So that's what we're gonna go. Now, remember that all along the way, as we're on our path, there's gonna be trials, tribulations, tests, things that define where we're going. Right. That choices that we get to make along the way. Right. You know, I want to think of them like tests, but also because there are failures, pitfalls, things that go wrong. Right, yeah.

Usually in the hero's journey, there's always a crash at some point, which actually makes the hero's journey more meaningful. When somebody has that crash and then they overcome that, they succeed despite that.

Right. So the hero has a problem. We've met you, the guide, you've given them a plan. You've also called them to action. So don't forget that you got to make them start on the journey. Right? So by listening, you're getting them to start on the journey. So we're inviting them to do that. That's why you can use this in a landing page, because right there is where your call to action is. That's for your first small think of a micro actions. Right. All I got to do is get them to listen. Right, so we're doing our micro action at this stage then. Or helps our guides along the way, providing that those crashes might happen. And that's where the great stories come in. Right. We want to tell them about people who crashed, but our job is to make them feel that working with us, being with us, listening to our podcast, we're going to help them avoid the dumb ones. Right? We used to call them the rookie errors. Right? We're going to help you avoid the rookie errors along the way. We're going to help you avoid these things that should should be obvious, but they're really not. And so we're going to make that happen for you by bringing you great people, by bringing you great products, by bringing you great concepts, by topics right along the way. That's our job as the guide. And some of those might be other helpers, other people who can give you guidance, who can give you help, who can help you with little bits and pieces along the way so that you can highlight what it looks like to crash without actually having them crash. Because we don't want our listeners to crash. We want them to keep going. Right. So we're going to help them along the way. But remember, you're also there to provide warnings. Right, Warnings. So I was talking about this earlier today, is that sometimes telling people what not to do, what they should be aware of, what the pitfalls are, are almost more powerful than what they should do.

I think it's incredibly valuable because people don't know what they don't know, and a lot of times they don't know it until they hear what it is you're sharing with them that they didn't know. They're like, oh, I didn't know that. Wow, that'll save me.

Right? And this is an easy way for you to bring in success without having them take action because they heard something that they now won't do. They believe they got something from you, they got a nugget, so they achieve some success working through this journey with you. But they didn't actually have to take action to lose five pounds, right? They just avoided something that could have cost them more, right? So that's actually an easy way to create success for your audience and build that up. So keep in mind that some of these warnings are great. They're also really great to highlight not what it is, but that I'm going to warn you about that. So I do a lot of articles titled the best and the worst, right?

Those are always so popular.

Five do's and two don'ts. And it's the don'ts that people comment on, right, over time. So, you know, you kind of keeping that in mind that you're going to tease that those things are in your episode, are going to be a part of your show and that's going to help you build that anticipation and build that interest of people who want to come forward and check it out, right? So those are all different things. So, Nen, we gotta give them some tasks, right? We gotta assign them some things that they have to do. An adventure, right? It wouldn't be an adventure if we didn't go make you go do something, right? You've gotta go experience something. You've got to go try that. And in that your assignments to them are mini calls to action, right? Various things that they need to take action to do. These are not come by from me calls to action. Let me be very clear about that. They, this is calling them to take action on this thing that they believe they need, they want, they need to become the way they want to transform. And transformation can't happen without action. So you've got to inspire them to do something active for themselves of which they can achieve some amount of success. So this is where I love the little nuggets that we leave. So remember, some of them can be don'ts, but some of them can be dues. And by them taking action now, they become faster believers in you as their guide because you help them achieve micro success along the way. So navigating them to that small success is a way to get them off the podcast eventually, right? That's a way to get them to subscribe to your channel, to get them to then go from the subscription, going into your website, downloading something you're providing for them. Maybe that's a further guide on so you want them and you're inviting them to take this challenge or take this action. Now you're going to download that with more detail on what it entails, right? So you're going to give them that next step. Minor things, small things, but the things that create great success. You know, Meryl is a great example of that. Meryl Chandler, get Fundable podcast. Really great show. You know, tell everybody some about some of the kinds of micro things that Meryl will talk about on the show. And when you try them, you go, wow, that was great success.

That is a great point, Tracy, because Meryl's topic is really large. You know, the overall subject matter he talks about on getting fundable and making your business really be fundable, which is really all about knowing the rules of the game in order to be able to take certain actions, exhibit certain behaviors that are going to put you and your business in the right position to be fundable, knowing it going in. But he'll give you an example, for instance. Well, first of all, he'll share with you that 80% of the decision points for your business to be granted credit alone, a line of credit, a business credit card, are actually things that are in your personal credit history whether you're personally guaranteeing something or not, right?

And it can be percent small little things where he can tell you that paying on your exact due date, not paying early, makes a tremendous difference in performance and in your score. Something so simple of you think, oh, I'm doing the right thing, I'm paying five days early, I'm making sure that that check gets in. But instead, if you register on their website and pay exactly on the due date, even though you could pay five days early, you're going to get bonus points for it essentially in your credit score at the end of the day. That can make a tremendous amount of difference very quickly in your credit score.

And the thing is, the reason these things make a difference is because the algorithm for the automatic underwriting software that everybody is being evaluated by when you apply for credit these days has certain criteria. I mean, many, many data points of criteria that you don't know what they are. And so he'll peel back the curtain a little bit, show you some specific things you can do to take action. But it's just a nugget. And it really shows the example of, wow, I didn't know if I'd do that.

Right. He provided you a context and a little nugget. You do it, you achieve success, and you want to come Back for more because you realize he's truly the guide and the expert and I am a novice in this and I am subject to hundreds and hundreds of pitfalls. Right. Of things that failure points. There's a lot of conflict here, right? But there's also a lot at stake because my fundability is my home, my future, right? So this is where doing those things and providing those micro actions that can achieve success are extremely important along the way to build them in. So we so often look at calls to action on our show as come and come to my website and not go and do something positive to achieve your goal here for over auction, remember to call them to action and adventure.

And you can actually do both. Call them to action, give them something they can do that will make a difference and at the same time invite them to go to your website to get a little checklist of some of these things so you remember what you're supposed to do. Or maybe you don't have to write it down as you're listening. You can go get to a reference there and get what you need. The great.

So you'll say I have, I have these details, I just talked about them on the show, but I have them written down for you in the blog post for this episode. Right? So remember we always sing that here on the show that you should send people to the blog post for this episode because it's the easiest way to do that. So you're not inviting them to subscribe to anything. They don't feel like they're email downloading. They're going to the place where they can get the fastest path to the details and then achieve the success. Because when they achieve the success they're coming back to. You don't think this is lost, right? Plus there's a million ways in one to track anyone who comes to your website anyway. So you do have them. No matter what happens, we get too caught up in this call to action salesy model, forgetting that we really do have to also nurture them to get them to do to be successful and want this for themselves or sometimes to.

Get them out of their own way. Right? And the great thing about most of our topics is we don't realize how many pitfalls there really are, how many opportunities for that crash there is. And that's where stories from our guests can help illuminate that. And Meryl's podcast Get Fundable is a great example because just about every guest has a different story of a crash they went through, a pitfall they experienced, and there's a lesson there in how to prevent yourself from falling into that same trap.

So let's recap again just to make sure we're clear on the hero's journey. And we're also crystal clear that our listener and our subscriber as podcasters are our hero in that process. They have a want, need, desire. They want to go from here to there, right? They want some kind of transformation. That's the key, right? Or they wouldn't pick your show to begin with, right? They have something in mind. That's why they've sought you out. You are calling them to the path, the adventure of what's going to happen here. Yes, absolutely. You're doing that. But they want it to begin with. You're their guide, you're their Yoda, you're their Sherpa, whatever it might be, right? You're their guide on the path. You're going to give them a plan and a path, but you're not giving them all the details and you're not giving it to them at once. You're overwhelming them. If you do, right, it's going to come over time, over the show, but you're clearly defining where you know they're starting, where they are. But you know what that destination looks like, what defining what that success is, right? And along the way, there's a bunch of tests. Conflict, right? That's what we call it when we read this. Conflict, failures, pitfalls, things that are going to happen to us, things that are going to be in our way, barriers, obstacles that we have to overcome. And that's your content. That's the whole content piece is there. And there are going to be other helpers, other guests, other guides, other people along the way that you're going to case studies, our helpers, you know, anything along that wide. Success stories, those are going to come as well. Because not only do we have conflict, but we also need to see people who've trod this path before, right? Who made it. And then at the end of the day, right, like we want to get the Ring and Lord of the Rings, right? We want to get. We want to achieve the goal, right? We want to get our lightsaber, whatever it is that you want to get that is putting you at that level of Jedi or expert of where I came from, right? That's the transformation, right? I've transformed. That's the solution. That's what you can provide them, is a faster path to do that. You can provide them hands on guidance along the way. This is why working with you is so great. But that transformation is still possible if they are taking action, if they are listening, if they are creating the model, they can create this for themselves over time. It'd be incredibly difficult. And because you're also revealing little bits and pieces all the time, possibly not in the right order, because that's not how we typically podcast here, it'd be incredibly hard for them to do this. This is not a course. Your podcast is not that. It's little glimpses into that part of the hero's journey. And when we create that, we navigate them to small successes along the way, navigating them to that big transformation in the end so that they know that they're with the right guide and the right path. Because whether or not they can afford you is not the important part. Because if they believe that you are the guide, they will tell people who can afford you about you as well, because you help them with that small success along the way. So that's our hero's journey, where we're involving the listener. You know, do you have anything you want to add to that, Tom? It's like, you know, well, I mean.

You'Re the expert here as the writer in our duo here, and have more experience with the hero's journey. But I certainly know it and believe it and experience it all the time, not only as a podcaster, but even in part of my function as our company in a sales capacity. When I speak with a customer, I take them through a bit of a hero's journey as we talk about, you know, what it is that, you know, they need support with to make their podcast more effective. This is only one aspect of it, right?

When we build strategies we're building based on this model as well, is writing articles. So let's talk a little bit about what some of those things look like. When we write a description for a show, we take that pain point, that aspiration, that need and that want. We put it first and foremost into the first line of the opening paragraph. Then we put who you are, like, why you're the guide, why you're the expert. And then we put on some of the things that they might get tested on. In other words, some of the problems, some of the issues, some of the do's and the don'ts, right, that are going to happen along the way. We're highlighting them, not in detail, but highlighting the concept of them, right?

As my coach, Bill Sterle would say, we're not giving them the full meal, we're giving them an appetizer. We're just Giving them a little taste.

And in this case, in our opening paragraph, we're really only giving them the name of the appetizer, which sounds enticing, but it's not really giving them much more than that. And then we're going to do an immediate call to adventure, right? And I'm going to say adventure, because your story, your whole podcast should be edutaining, right? So we want it to be a call to adventure, not a call to action. So we're going to have a call to adventure right at that moment, which is hit subscribe and join the show, right? Go check it out. Because most people don't go beyond the first paragraph. That's why it's written that way. Now we're going to break it down into three paragraphs that are all those separate things more detailed out. So more discussion of the why and the want and the need and why you want this and, you know, what that path is going to be. And then more along why I trod that path, or my guest or my expert or, you know, whatever it is, why that path is so critical that you understand it and you highlight it. So even if I'm not the expert, right, But I'm the curiosity guide, because you can be a curiosity host. Meaning, like, so when we started out with 3D printing, right, in our podcast on 3D printing, we were not the experts, the technical experts on 3D printing. We were experts in product design and development and wanted to use 3D printing as a tool and had already had a lot of experience trying to apply decades of design experience to it. That's our expertise that we brought into that model. So we brought our viewpoint, our perspective, our expertise, and then added that to the journey of learning about something.

Right. In that case, Tracy, your example really holds true. We were the Sherpa in that we were, you know, leading people down a path, even though we weren't the expert. We learned over 600 plus episodes and became experts in many aspects of it.

Right. Remember, every Sherpa has to start with their first route, right? So, yeah, so that's it. You know, you're going on that guide, and so, you know, and so that's where that. That section comes in. And then we talk more about, you know, that kind of, like, struggles that people have, right? Because the tests, the things that they're going to come up against, that's. People want to know that those things are covered here. They don't want to know that you're just glossing this stuff over with a bunch of, you Know, interviews that just hit the surface. They want to know you're going to deep dive into the topic. So we want to reference that there. And then our last paragraph is always yet another call to adventure of really like join the show. And this is why you should, you know, why you should be so excited. And here's what you're going to get, you know, by being, by listening to the show. So teasing them for that transformation, that elixir that, that result that they're going to get by listening to the show over time. And so, you know, we need to do that again. And that's when we're writing a full description. When I write an article, it's very similar. I write my leading paragraph last. I usually write the rest of the article first. And I'll pain problem bullet points because everybody likes listicles, right? Do's and don'ts about what you should do and some whys in there, right? And then a summary that is like inviting them to try it for themselves, right? And some summary of like how you're going to apply this, think this through, you know, take this nugget away, like figure this out for yourself, right? My articles are a little more. You're just hitting that top level. There's no actual actionable result because I'm not selling through an article. But I am inviting them to try something, right? Try. The perspective I just provided you today is the net result of almost all of them. I'll go back and I'll write that teasing paragraph at the beginning where I'm incorporating little bits and pieces that, you know, but in a like, you know, in a trailer teaser style, right? To get you excited to read more. Right? And that's the point. Same thing with our episode descriptions. They should be just like that model is that we have that teaser paragraph that has got the little bits of highlights of the journey along the way that what they're going to get but not giving them the farm. Like the worst episode descriptions to me are the ones that go yeah, so and so is going to talk on success, on how they did this exactly. And they say what it is. That's like giving it away, right?

Or even I don't like the blog post, the old school show notes that people create that gives everybody all the key points, all the key highlights and takeaways right at the top. Right at the top that occur within the episode. Because somebody who doesn't maybe would prefer not to spend all that time listening. Just goes looks at all those points. Okay, great. I got what I need from it.

I don't have to listen, I don't need to listen.

The lesson will be much more effective if they do listen. So you want to build anticipation, which builds up dopamine in their brain and gets them like, oh, I got to listen to this.

Right.

But then make them listen to get the goods.

So we always put our summary bullet points, which might be our calls to action or the most important things that they reference, always act as. So they have to actually have listened, read, watched whatever it is, go through the whole thing before they get to that point. So while we do have it, it's so far down because there's usually like 6,000 words. Right. That there it's not up at the top. And that's the key because we do want to invite them through, we want to tease them into it and because this is going to have a transformative result for them.

And of course, anybody who's a longtime listener or customer knows we do create a long form blog post that really does have all the information in written form from the podcast. And that's true. But as Tracy said, it can be a 4 or 6,000 word blog post. The vast majority of people are not going to read that or not going to want to read through it. It's a way to get them to come from Google search, but the reality is they far prefer to listen to it or watch it. If there's a video version, then read it. The text is there. Sort of as a wide net that we've cast out there for people looking for support who have those needs.

Yeah. So this is kind of just the way to take what is that hero's journey and do it now. I want to just kind of briefly mention what a landing page looks like when you do this, because a lot of you want to create those landing pages. And so thinking about the landing page is that there are a lot of people who are farther along in their search.

Right.

So they know they have a wanted need. You're not the first website they've come across. You're not the first guru they've tried. Right. So keeping in mind that I always build my landing pages with three sort of sections for the calls to action, which they highly recommend in building a landing page is that you have your call to action a minimum of three times throughout it. But it's not that it's a different call to action, it's just the way that call to action is framed up at the top is for our fast action takers. So I will frame that. You have this problem. Here's some of the pitfalls. You've been there, done this before. Here's why we're different. If you want to find out more, call to action now, right? So we're, we're inviting them to that fast call to action. So what that looks like from a podcasting landing page standpoint for us is that we're here saying to you, okay, you're out there, you've been struggling for months to try to start your podcast and you haven't done it yet. Here's probably why you haven't done it yet, right? Because we know what they are, because we've seen it, done it, been there, you know, and who we are on the way to that. We've helped set up over 575 shows, right? And they all have this issue. But here's what it's going to take. If you want what it's going to take to be successful and want to guide along the way and don't want to do stuff yourself, click this button, right, and make an appointment. So you see, we've kind of, we set that up for the action takers to take who've been looking for a while, who failed enough and are just like done with that to find us, right. It's also set for the personality of person, right? The quick action takers are our best clients. So we set that up. The second part is going to go into a lot more detail. Like you see that in those long tail, you know, landing pages, the ones that have the, the long sales form model and you've got the bullet points.

And the direct response marketing.

Yeah, exactly. And you've got those long tail whys, why nots, you've got the details in them. You're basically removing barriers along the way, but you know, or highlighting the barriers along the way. Right? And that's what you're doing in the saying, you're the antidote to this, right? And so then your next call to action happens and then the last section of it is usually like the sales details and information and what they're going to get if they join your program or what's there and you'll have another call to action. There's. So you see, we're following that very same format we did, but if you follow it in a more story based and less salesy way, you might find more success. Because I'm not as put off by the way that it reads.

Or I'll give you an example in that landing page, you know, it's always much more interesting if there are things that are visually engaging people as well as what they're reading, people actually respond to images faster than they do text. So we do that in our landing pages. We'll have relevant images to the subject. But there's always a caption under that image and that caption is always repeating that call to action or that main message. And people see the image, read the caption they had read at the top, they had the call to action, then they see it multiple places throughout.

Seems a reinforcement edit. Yeah, but the other thing that, you know, thinking about this sort of landing page model of it being story based is it gets you out of the me, me, me, me, me thing, which so many of those salesy landing pages. I'm the solution, I'm this, I'm that, believe me, trust me. But a landing page is an untrustworthy place. So when I push it in and let you see yourself in my landing page, see your path, see your journey, envision it like you want it to go. I'm less put off by the sales language. It feels like an invitation, like a call to adventure. And it doesn't feel like a pushy sales message. So that's really another reason why we want to try to do this. So the model need, want, desire. Your hero is your listener. You're going to call them to adventure. You're going to guide them along the way. You're going to define all the tests, the pitfalls, all those things in micro content. In your podcast, you're going to introduce them to great helpers who can help them visualize the path, the journey, the success, the pitfall, whatever it might be along the way. And then you're going to give them this view that transformation, solution, success lies with you in its simple nutshell, story based podcasting.

All right, I like it. All right, Tracy, thank you so much for sharing that. Remember, you can find the blog post for this episode@poditize.com and you know there are many ways you can contact us, reach out to us there. Hope you enjoyed this. We'll be back next time with another great episode of Feed you'd brand.