Taking Advantage Of Podcast Expertise To Expand The Reach Of Your Show - On-Air Podcast Coaching With Patrick Veroneau Of The Learning From Leaders Podcast (Podfaded)

Wish you were one of those influencers with raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority Magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazzard shares strategies, tips and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor. Now let's join Tracy as she explores how to rise above all noise with the Binge Factor.

Hey everyone. Welcome to the Binge Factor. I'm Tracy Hazard and I am doing an on air strategic coaching session today with Patrick Farino and his podcast is called Learning from Leaders. He has over 115 episodes. He's been doing it since 2018. It's merged a couple times with a couple of different name changes, but its current one is Learning from Leaders and I really like the concept that he has going on there and the subtitle is about Because Leaders Our Learners, which I truly believe in espouse here. The whole purpose of my podcast is to learn, to learn from the community and to help you learn as well. What's going to work for me? What's going to be best for my show? What business model do I have that matches me the best? That this show might work for me or this tactic might work for me? That's my ultimate goal with bringing you these types of shows. And I'm so glad that I have such wonderful clients who are more than willing to do these live on air coaching sessions so that you get a sense of how does coaching work, what are they thinking about? Maybe those things are the same things and you just didn't verbalize them to anyone. Or maybe you don't have anyone to talk to about it. You don't have a coach, so wanted to give you a sense of what that looks like, what that sounds like, what it feels like to be a part of that. And they are so gracious that they are happy to share because they are such good shares to begin with as podcast hosts. I absolutely love that about the community here. Well, Patrick Vareno is the President of Emory Leadership Group and hosts a weekly podcast called Learning From Leaders. His graduate work is in organizational leadership and he has trained extensively in the areas of emotional intelligence, influence and personality. Many of the models he has developed are rooted in the research and real world experiences from these three disciplines. He's focused his career on helping individuals, teams and organizations reimagine what it means to lead and succeed on a more conscious level. He's a member of the Forbes Coaches Council, the Harvard Business Review Advisory Council, the National Speakers association, and is an adjunct instructor for smcc. He's got some great guests on there. You're going to have to check it out. John Lee Dumas was on. You know, if you're a podcast aficionado, you know who he is. He was on, I think it was early in January of 2020. He's got some really interesting conversations that he's bringing about in his show, and he's sitting there actively learning along with you as a listener. That's his binge factor. He may not realize it, but is that he's such a good listener and learner that he asked the right questions at the right time. So we as listeners aren't going. You just. You didn't follow up like, you know, that frustrating moment we all have as listeners when they just went on to the next prepared question. Patrick doesn't do that. He really does sit down, think this through. Actively listening to his guest and knows how he wants to guide the conversation because he truly understands the leaders he expects are in his audience, and that is really working for him. So let's find out how we can help make his show even more effective.

Patrick, thank you so much for joining me today. I'm excited to talk about your show and where you're going now. You've changed your show name a little bit over time, right? So your show has already shifted over the 115 episodes. Tell everybody about that journey.

It has. So the show started out as rise above your best. And then a lot of my work is in leadership, in team building, individual team, organizational leadership. And I was sort of really in this space of reimagining, what does it mean to lead? And even though I still do that now, really in terms of the models that I use and the approaches that I take, I thought, you know, maybe as a show I will change it up as well. In terms of what does it mean to lead? And I then went to lead like no other. And what I found with that was that people thought, well, that means there must only be one kind of leader. Right? Only one person can be the leader. And that's really not it at all. The whole idea behind that, in terms of leading like no other, was to say that we needed to do things differently.

You know, that's so interesting. Sometimes the names that we. How we hear them, how we hear our brands, how we hear our names isn't actually how they end up perceived by the audience we hope to have a conversation with.

Yeah, exactly. And I was Working with a coach myself at that point. And he said, that's how that comes across. And we really sort of brainstormed in terms of what am I doing, you know, between the interviews that I do. And a lot of the monologues that I do are around the research that I use in my own business and trying to put it in a format that people can apply. So it's not just research anymore. It's like, how do you apply this to the real world? So we went with where we are now, which is Learning from Leaders.

I actually really love this title because I'm in the right place, because this is what I want.

Yeah. And you know what it is, too, is it's that I myself am a learner. Right. Leaders are learners. And through this process, at first I was like, oh, can I change it again? And to me, it speaks to. Yeah, because I'm learning as I go as well. Like what works, what doesn't work. And it's the same thing with leading teams or organizations. You don't always have the right answer.

That's why I never want to get rid of my podcast here, because this is my chance to continually learn. Right. To keep up on the industry. So some of us have that as our. I'm going to call it our return on investment from time is actually an opportunity to learn. Right. It's this opportunity to do that. What are your return on investment expectations from the podcast now? It may have changed over time, but what is it right now? What do you expect to get from your show?

So more exposure to my website, really, in terms of having people get a greater understanding of what I do, the models that I've put together and how they work. And as I mentioned before we started the interview, when I started this, it was something that I had wanted to do two years prior. I mean, I literally had bought all of the equipment and it sat in a box, and I kept saying, I'm going to do it, I'm going to do it. And then I remember it was in August of 2018, and I said, this show is going to go live by Labor Day. And that's what I did. And I've run the show ever since then on a pretty much a weekly basis.

I love that. So you're really looking for exposure. Looking for who, though? Who's the ideal audience for you?

So obviously, if I'm looking for people that are going to be able to make the decision on. Yeah, this is somebody that we want to have in is first. Right. So it would be people at an executive level that can bring somebody like myself into their organization. That said, in terms of, if I think of my listener, it's also somebody that's on the front line of leading right now, and they're trying to figure this thing out as well. In terms of, I just got promoted from the team that I was on and now I'm taking it over. And that's a different skill set. How do I make sure that I don't mess this thing up?

So it's a little more corporate driven. So organizations of what size?

So it can be anywhere from probably 25 employees all the way up to, you know, I work with companies that are over a thousand employees at this point.

Okay. So it's a size of a company and a scope of the type of leadership experiences that they may have within that. Okay, so you're looking at exposure within that particular audience. So now you've been doing your show for quite some time. What do you do with your show once it goes live?

So in terms of what I do is I will put it out on LinkedIn, I will then tag it to Facebook. And that basically for me, is all that I do at this point, which I know is not enough for where I want to go.

We'll talk about that.

And I'm still in this mindset of I do the show because I love it and it's an extension of what I do. And that probably helps me to keep me doing it, but also hurts me in terms of looking and saying, you need to leverage this thing now. Because I've had some great interviews with some just unbelievable leaders, as well as provided some really strong research in regards to what it means to lead today. And leading today, especially in this year alone, it's not even what it was a year ago in terms of the skill set that we need. And that's what I'm finding is that there's a misalignment between leaders expectations and their behaviors and what the realities are of those people that they're asking to follow where they want to go. It's different.

Right. So you're there to support them as well. So thinking about it from this perspective is that you have a group of people who you've already helped. Right. Or are in the process of helping. Right. They're your current clients right now, so you have them within your community. Where have you prior to the podcast or for the general part of your business, where do you get your most referrals from? Where do you get most. Most of your business from?

I would Say, most of my business comes from really two sources. One is it's through LinkedIn, through me, reaching out to other organizations that are on there, connecting with people and reaching out that way. And then the other half is through organizations that I currently work with, is networking through them. And that's really, as you can imagine, is the easiest of the business because there's already a track record there.

That's right. There's already proof. So thinking about that is that why would we sit back and say, we've got this podcast, we've got this great, useful content, we've got lots of information that could service my existing network of people that I already have worked with before and already have that there's nuggets in there that they may not even know about. And it can make it easier for me to do outreach that doesn't seem too pushy and too salesy. Right? So we've got all this wonderful bucket of information, right? And tools and content that we can use. And yet you're not using it beyond. Here's my show.

That's right.

Okay, so it sounds like I'm picking on you, but this is common, right? So this is a common issue is that you have 115 shows worth of really great content that most people would. You could probably barely remember them all. I have trouble with mine. And so there's great things there that they could find and they could be, but they're not finding it. So we look at what we call an evergreen strategy, right? Is which bringing up things again and again. Because there are new people in your community that weren't there in 2018, right. That didn't get some of those early nuggets of information that you had. There are people who haven't heard your perspective yet. So how do we get these pieces and parts moving to be more useful in that model of business growth that you already know works. Right? So if we already know that LinkedIn is working through these two models of outreach and networking, then let's make LinkedIn outreach and networking work even more for you by being of service with your show. How's that sound?

I love it.

Okay, so what does that look like? So when I listen to your show, you have shows that are solo cast where you're talking about topics and you've got things that you want to discuss which are really valuable. One of the ones that I loved the most that you put out this year was really discussing the idea of, we're not just in unprecedented times because of a pandemic. We're in unprecedented times, because this is a financial crisis, a health crisis and a social crisis. And who knows how to lead in that? Right? And you know, none of us have had to go through it quite the same way before. I think 911 is the time that comes the closest to it because we did have financial crisis in a way. It was a social crisis, a crisis of security and. And we undoubtedly had a physical crisis for some of us who were living on the east coast and couldn't move around the country at that moment in time. Luckily that was short lived. That part didn't last a whole year, but that was the closest to it. So very few people have experience leading like that. So being able to put that perspective in place is a wonderful viewpoint. Articulating that way was wonderful way to say it to people and not in an alarmist way. It was just like, hey, cut yourself some slack, this is hard. We all are figuring this out. Let's figure it out together. And here's some of my favorite episodes of some people who gave me some tips. And you refer to some of your other shows, some of your other interviews when you're in that episode, right? So you're doing that cross referencing there. Let's do the cross referencing in LinkedIn. Let's do the cross referencing in your networking groups. So whether it's sending out an email to the head of the networking group and saying, hey, I know that all of your members are dealing with this right at this moment, I wanted to offer up some, a special curated group of shows that I think might be valuable to them for these reasons. And you just give them the short list of shows. Who doesn't want to put that list in their newsletter for you? You just gave him topics, you gave him something that he or she didn't have before. And it didn't say highlight me. It said, here's some things that are of service to your community.

Yeah, I think that's a great idea. And I think I heard you guys talking the other day about getting a top five list or a top ten.

List of a favorites list.

Yeah, favorites list, yeah. Which I think is a great idea too, you know, to be able to do that.

Right. And you don't have to call it favorites, you can talk about it. It's like the most critical episodes to listen to today. Right. Like they could be something that is really dealing with, you know, at any time when the world shifts. And now we're having a crisis of privacy. You know, we could have a data privacy. You've got these five Episodes that are perfect for us to listen to one of your data privacy experts who came on the show and was interviewed. A way that you're talking about how to create sense of security, whatever it might be. Right. You create a list that's curated for those purposes. You can put them into. If you've got yours on video and I don't remember, are you doing video?

I have video. I generally only leverage the audio at this point, though. But I do have a video library room.

Okay, great. So if you've got a video library, you can always put them in the short playlist, which makes it really easy to add them to your website. If not, you just make categories in your blogs for those episodes. So you just give them category tag and then you only serve those up in the section or on that page of it. And so it's a simple blogging strategy that you can get any web developer to help you with. Super easy. Retag the episodes you want the blogs from them, and then they only display in that area. So you don't have to make this complex. You certainly don't have to create anything new, which we don't want to do. Right. But now that we've got maybe some of these episodes that we've started to categorize them and we started to realize they're going to help these networking communities. How can I make sure and circulate them out and share them into those communities. Now we might want to go back to those episodes and pull out clips so we can pull out make audiograms. So make video from the clip, which is just a static image with an audio file and the captioning running underneath. It doesn't have to be that you could do. Just get on zoom here. Create a quick short clip that introduces why you're sharing this episode today. And so you're actually creating a video to go with the share of the show and not just leaving it to being the show. Only because one of the things that we do here is remember that not everyone is a podcast listener who's savvy to podcasting, and they don't. And the number one place most people find new shows is from friends and from Google. So we want to make sure that out there we're sharing the show in other ways and so that in other formats, they get better visibility. And on social media, video gets better visibility. So how can we just create a little bit of video help to get our podcast noticed? Couple simple ways. Audiograms are perfect. A minute long ones. They don't have to Be super long. We can help you create them. But in Headliner is one of the apps that lots of people use to create audiograms for social media. You can have a virtual assistant or someone who's working for you do that for you as well. But choosing the clip, that's where you come into play. This is not something you should stub out. You should choose the clip because you understand your audience. It shouldn't just be sound bitey, it should be useful. And I know sound bitey isn't a word, but I just used it that way. But you know what I mean, right?

It sounded like a word.

Yeah, it sounded like a word, right? So we'll make it one. But it shouldn't just be that. It should be something that, you know, that they're going to engage with, they're going to respond to, they're going to find useful because your target audience is out there looking for it, right? Because they're learners and learners like to ask questions. So when they see it, when they hear it, they're going to either want to go through and explore it, listen to the whole episode, check out the blog, whatever it might be that you shared, they're going to check that out, maybe an article that you wrote as well. So all of those things are going to be there, but they're also probably going to reach back and ask you a question now you're going to start engagement. So the other strategy which I really love to use in LinkedIn, is a strategy of once you share maybe a short video, maybe a question that you might be asking, or a reason, giving, setting up a context to why you're sharing this episode right now. You don't have to call it an old episode. They have no idea in your blog posts, like, they don't air. It's just a page with a, with an audio file, right? They don't know, so just share it in a new way. Just saying, hey, this is content worth sharing. And here's why I'm sharing this with you now, because you can utilize this to help you move forward, to help you learn how to do this, to help you succeed in your new leadership role, whatever that might be. You're giving that context for it after you've posted it in the comments, actually tag and comment to one of your great past clients or current clients and say, I was especially thinking of you at so and so because of your new promotion. Or I was especially thinking of you because you have a team that's this big, you know, whatever it might be, you're framing it in context, and then invite them, ask them a question as if they're the expert, especially if they're your former clients. So they've gone through your program. Right. You want to highlight them as, like, being good at what they're doing. So you then say, do you have any additional tips you could share? And then they won't pass up. You ask them a pointed question and you tagged them. Now you're going to create engagement in your post, and their friends, their followers, their colleagues are going to see that that creates a more robust community knowledge of you. You are the facilitator of that.

Yeah. And you know what I like about that is that there's interaction because I've been tagged on things that, you know, I'm one of five people that are tagged on it, or 20.

Right. Like, they're like.

And I don't do anything with it because it's like, for that reason, it's like spam. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. You're not going to do it for five people. You're going to pick one person. You're going to pick one person that, you know. You're showing that you acknowledging them that you care about them, that you've been following them, you know they got a promotion or you know that they've been doing something new, and you're acknowledging their skill in that process. That says a lot to other people is that it's not just about what you have to say, it's about how the community can benefit.

Yeah.

Yeah. So I love that strategy for you to be able to create this kind of. You're creating conversations, you're not just pushing information.

Right.

Yeah.

Yeah. And that's it. And that's what it feels like at times.

Yeah. Sometimes it feels like push. Right?

Yeah. Yeah.

That's why you don't love it. That's why you don't love sharing your show.

Right.

Like, you're like, I shared my show because it feels pushy.

Next.

Right. That is the hard part about being a podcaster is that we're here on the other side of the mic. It's not like being at an event. It's not like everybody raises their hand, everybody's nodding. You don't get to see that. So where can we create that happening? We sometimes have to just work with the tools we have and tagging and commenting, and these are the tools that we got to work with. So let's use them.

Yeah. Tracy, you know what else? At times, it's kind of like a lonely world being on Just this side of it, because you don't get a lot of interaction, a lot of feedback. I mean, I will run into people who'd be like, oh, I listened to that show. I love that show. And I would never know that they had listened to it or they loved it because they didn't comment on it, they didn't like it, they didn't do anything. Right. So I'm just wondering, like, wow.

But you know what my favorite part was when we did our very first show and we did 600 episodes and we did, you know, one a week, one a day, and then we moved down as we slowly ratcheted down to one a week. But we took time off and we told people we're going to take time off. We were always like, we're going to take time off. Our daughter's getting married. Like, we're going to take the summer off. When we didn't come back in September, they messaged us. So, like, when you're not there, they do miss you. So, like that. That is something that will happen.

Yeah. I was just like, well, put something on there then. If you like it, you know, help me out.

Yeah, that's right. So now I did notice that you have some gaps in time periods, and so you have some gaps in the. In the dates of time periods in your show. There's no reason for you not to do some reshuffling. There's no magic to having started your show in 2018. If you want to reshuffle some shows, they're not going to get reserved up because they were already listened to to your existing subscribers, but to someone new who finds them. If you've got some of those early shows and then you've got time gaps, you might want to just redate them and republish them and move them into those spaces so that you aren't really holding out. Double check the episodes, make sure you didn't say, hey, it's 2017, or something like that. Right. You know, you can always edit that out or do something about it. But moving a show into a more relevant date so that new listeners who might come backwards through your show doesn't miss some of these wonderful episodes is really valuable. So just thinking about that listener experience.

That'S something I wouldn't have really thought of doing either, just because I know that there have been a couple spots where either. The week got away from me. I got busy. I'm in one of those right now that I missed.

Yeah, I noticed. That's why I mentioned it right now. I was not trying to out you and give you a hard time. But yeah, I noticed that you hadn't posted for most of November, so that's an issue. And that happens to everybody. But especially in. I'm gonna call it. There's a lot of shows with pandemic gaps. And I actually got into a huge argument with a podcaster who was PR person, put her on my calendar. And I was going to. I thought the show was really relevant and everything, but in the time between the time I saw her show initially and said, okay, you can come on my show, and the pandemic started and all of this happened in two months until she actually was on my show and she didn't post a single episode. And her show was to help college students learn remotely, like it was a show about that. And so I thought you just dropped all those college students who don't even know what to do for this two months right now, and you didn't provide them any help and you want me to give you promotion by putting you on my show. That gap, especially when you are there for a particular demographic and a particular purpose and you didn't show up for them during that pandemic gap time because you were dealing with your own stuff, which is totally valid, but there's no reason for you not to move stuff around later. Now, I don't recommend what I call like reruns. So if you. You didn't have a show this week and you choose an old episode and you rerun it, don't do that. Your subscribers will get pissed at you and they will send you nasty messages because it will look like it's brand new and they will see it if you're just filling in open times that have already passed. They won't see it if they listen to the episode completely. So don't do a rerun strategy. I can tell you it fails.

Yeah, right. Right. So I will let you know that I have. I had an interview before our interview with somebody for a new book, so. And I've got two others in the queue right now, so I'm back.

So. Good, you're back on. Back on schedule. But, you know, this is a good strategy for you, Patrick. They don't need to be long episodes. Right. When you have time, you should always have a set of maybe half a dozen short episodes that you just have that you could easily publish. And I do a lot of live stream coaching, so I've got a stack of them like that are just sitting there and I can go and pick one and go, I'm going to air that one next week. Because I didn't. My interview fell through. And so it gives me an opportunity to drop something in that's maybe under 10 minutes long, but it gives me something to serve the community and keep that consistency. Because one of the things that us leaders have to do is we have to show up day after day, whether we, whether we feel like it or not. Right. We suck it up when we're sick. You know how that is. Right. And so we definitely have to demonstrate that as coaches, as consultants, it's harder for us. You know, we have a lot of business that we juggle, but we have to try to put that in. So having a system for yourself to back yourself up is always a good plan.

Yeah. And I will tell you what I noticed out of this, Tracy, is that momentum takes over either way. You know, I went. This is the longest I've. I'm on week three without a show. I've never done that before, ever. And it was like, no, I'm going to post that one tomorrow. And then my day got blocked.

Your day gets away from you. Yeah, yeah.

With that. So you're right. And I caught that of like, I can't go to week four.

That's right, I can't. Well, and we don't want to go to week four because when we go to week four, some of the podcast players have an algorithm that kicks in and stops pushing us to our subscriber base. So the subscriber has to notice they missed your show and go redownload it. So it doesn't automatically go into their favorites list or automatically download if they have it set for that. So some of them, they may have to retrigger your show. So when you come back after a break, you can see this dip that happens in your stats. So we want to avoid that. So that's why what I definitely do recommend is if you're going to be gone and you know, you need to take time off, like I did for my daughter's wedding, is you plan a show every three weeks that you've already pre recorded, and you just drop it in and say, hey, everything's going really well. I'll be back. You know, like, whatever that is, I'll be back. But I thought I would, you know, I thought I would share this idea with you, you know, and you give them 5, 10 minutes of something really interesting, and that way you hit that three week mark and you don't lose that gap time and you keep everybody going. Okay, where Are you okay? That's where you are. Okay, so you're still going. The show is going to come back and we'll wait for you. Right. We acknowledge that you're a human. Right. And you've got a life and we acknowledge that and that's okay. But you're dropping in something. So that's what I actually recommend to even people who do seasons, drop seasons is that you do some things to touch base with them once a month in between your seasons. That's just having some of those pre recorded and ready for you that you could just add a little intro on. Makes it super easy for you not to miss those time periods, not to go a whole month. But you know, our life gets away from all of us. This is a busy time of year.

It sure does.

Yeah, that's right. Well, you said to me earlier that you want to expand your reach and extend your business. So you want to do that smartly within the community that's going to become your best customers. Right. You don't want to just do that just to have a lot of followers and a lot of friends and you want to do it in a smart way that is building upon itself so that it has a compounding effect over time where their community becomes your community. And now you have a much richer, larger community of the, of the people you want to have conversations with that you want to be networking in that are going to help you learn so that you can learn from them just as much as they learn from you. Right. That's our ultimate goal.

Yeah.

Yeah. So making sure that we're being discerning about that is the next thing that I say is that, that's why I want you to pick your own clips. I want you to be specific about what goes into an audiogram. I want you to be specific about who you tag and who you share. We don't have to have this be a complex system. You can have a team, an assistant help you execute it, but there are three things they have to get from you. What's the clip I'm sharing? What's the main question or message? Part of the message I'm going to share and who am I tagging in it? And what's the little question I asked them like that's it. And it can be really simple that you just hand you, you put in your episode, you hand that off to the team so they know when it's ready, they're going to be able to say, is this what you want? I'll post it on the day for you or you post it on the day. It's all prepped for you. Right? It doesn't matter how you want to do that, but there can be systems and organizations set ahead of time to be doing this from the beginning because we don't want to overwhelm ourselves with more work.

Right? Yeah, I do love that idea. I think that could work really well for me for what I'm doing.

So one of the things that I do is on Zoom, I put the timer on from the time we start talking. Now, keep in mind that it is. I didn't hit record from the beginning, right? So we've been on a call 32 minutes, but we didn't start recording until we were at minute 10. So I have my. My little edit notes here. On the top corner of my edit notes, I will put the time I hit record so I could do the math later. Right? And so when you say something that I'm like, oh, that's brilliant, I want to note that. I'll look at the time in the corner and I write it down. The time is not time recording for, like, so people can't see it on the video. Like, they won't ever see it. It's time for me of the time and session, right? And so I make a note of there. Then I'll subtract out the time I started the recording.

And.

And all I do is say, the clip I want is at 20 minutes and 10 seconds. I don't have to tell them what it is. I just tell them where to find it. My team knows me well enough to cut, like, what I say properly. Like, make sure it's a full sentence. None of that. It's a full thought, right? They know me well enough, and they've done the show, right? But I give them a space for it. And so you can make it really super simple for yourself. Find a system. Like, what is your keyword? Oh, I was halfway through and I said this word or said this phrase. And you just make a note for yourself while you're doing it. You can save yourself a ton of time later, too. Not everybody's that organized. Not everybody thinks in that way. But if you do, that might help you.

I will tell you, because I've done that. I'm like, no, I think it was around 15 minutes, but I didn't mark it. So I'm, like, fishing all over the place for it, right?

And one of the things that I always do is I leave extra time after a call. So I always plan an hour for a Call. It doesn't always go an hour. It usually goes 45 minutes or less. Because I plan to record about 30 minutes of content. Is that at the very end of it? I've left room for myself to record the intro and for me to go back and go, double check. Did I. You know, I said I thought it was at 15 minutes. Let me just double check. And I will run through that audio file and check it and just say, oh, yeah, it is at 15 minutes and 30 seconds. I've got it now. So that's. If you do it right, then it will save you a ton of time later because a lot of it is fresh in your mind. You'll remember. Oh, I said that before. Okay. It must be right after this. And you will take a lot less time reviewing things. I hate to re. Listen.

Yeah. And it takes a lot of time.

It does. I don't love to review my show. So I noticed you did something really interesting early on. And I. And I can see why you dropped it because it was a lot more work. So you would set up your intro. That would be like a specialized intro for each show. And you didn't have a formal intro. And then you would run in and your music would, you know, and then you would transition to your interview with someone. And that was probably a lot more work. Cause it took more planning, I suspect. So the new style that you're doing doesn't have any detriment to the quality of the show in any way. But you've made it easier for yourself to keep going. Those are okay choices to make.

Yeah. That was so much easier doing that.

Yeah. Let's not complicate it for ourselves. So sometimes we go in and we get a coach or we get a producer who says, you should do it this way because this is how this pro does it. But that pro has a team and we are one. Right. Maybe one and a half, like some of us. Right. Be realistic about what you can do and serve the way that you can.

Yeah. I do like the idea. And I need to do better at this is just making sure that. Do the intro that I'm going to do right after the show. Right. Because it's. I'm already there as opposed to come back and then try and do it again.

Yeah. Now, how are your guests sharing? Are they doing a good job of sharing for you?

I think some do a better job of others. And I think the ones that I've had that haven't. They're just not as good on social media, period, you know, I've, I've had some researchers on here that it's just not their space to be sharing it with other. But the content, what they've provided has been valuable.

Well, a strategy might be to reach out to their organization. When they're a researcher within another organization, there's probably a publicist or someone else within the organization, someone who runs the company or the college's social media accounts. And so if you can find them and you can do a corporate search in LinkedIn to find all the other people work for the corporation or work for the organization. And if you can do that and tag those people, like, don't tag them up in the post, but if you tag them in the comments saying, hey, your boss was featured here or something like that. Right. Or the head of your company was featured here, they may not notice it and they may not have seen it because their boss wasn't so good at sharing. Right. Or talking about themselves doing something. So that might be a way around that to help because you want those people that even if they're not for your purposes, you're going to learn a lot more. Your audience is going to learn a lot more from someone who's the perfect fit for the topic or the show or what you want and not necessarily by just the people who are good at social media. Right. You need the variety. Now, if you find someone who's great at LinkedIn, then take them. Right. Because they're going to be really good at making sure that you get shared. And that's valuable too.

Yeah. So that's the one area that I found that just because they're. It's not a platform that they use much and I've reached out to them through actually either the study that they published or something else, not through social media.

Have you done a lot of podcast swaps?

No.

For those of you who are listening out there, don't know what that is, that's where you would go on a podcast show and they would come on your show. So you offer them a guest appearance and you know you want it needs to be a fit. Like they need to have the same audience match. Like that's what is ideal. Doesn't matter how big their audience is. But if there's an audience match between the two of you, you should do it. Doing it for publicity purposes, just to have a lot of podcasts that you've been on, that's a different strategy. I'm talking about a listener swap that you eventually want. So by exposing yourself to their listeners and their listeners Getting exposed to you, like the crossing of your listenership is valuable for both of you because podcast listeners listen to seven plus shows in their area that they want to learn in, in the area that they're trying to grow in. They don't just listen to one show. So you're not going to lose audience by doing that. You're going to be the guy who brought them this wonderful guest. They're not going to want to give up on your show because they thought they heard somebody they liked. They're going to try their show too. That's what you want from a guest swapping situation. So that's a good way for you to go about doing that.

I like that idea.

Yeah. So find some shows that you would personally listen to. Ask that networking community of yours. Ask your former clients, what podcasts do you listen to? Who do you follow? Ask them.

Yeah, I can think of a few right now that would be a good, could be a good fit.

Yeah. And they're looking for the same thing you are. That swapping is not a hard ask.

And I will tell you, I think that's one thing that I've recognized too, is that I've had some people reach out to me, publicists that want to have somebody on the show, but it's. It's just not a fit.

It's just not a fit.

Yeah. It's not a fit for what I'm talking about.

Yeah. And that's where I do think like the agencies that are not doing a good job, where they're just buying a list and then they're sending a mass email out to everyone, is kind of hurting the podcast guesting community. We need to be very discerning as hosts about who we invite on. And I believe that over time what I've discovered, and I've done a lot of interviews, what I've discovered over time is that when there's an audience match, everyone benefits and it has a long term residual value.

Yeah, that makes sense.

You got a return on investment for your time. Even if you're going to go on somebody else's show. Right. It's got to be valuable for you.

Yeah, exactly.

And then be a very good sharer on the other side. Right. If you share better than they do, then they feel bad about it. So that's my goal. I always am like a. One of the best repurposers and resharers of having been a guest on their show, showing them how it should be done. Right now, of course, that's my career and my company and My job. So I should be good at it, right? I should be able to demonstrate that. But when you do that, there's a law of reciprocity that kicks in there. And then they were like, well, I better share this show now.

Which is kind of your subtle way of telling me that when this comes out, you better be.

You're on the hook for this, Patrick.

I'm on to you.

No, don't worry about it. We got you covered. Right? Because our job on our end is to give you all the assets to do that. That's what we do. Right. That's what this show is particularly about. The binge factor is what we give to our guests are all the tools that they need so they don't have to work so hard to figure out what those social posts should be. I get it back from people, corporations and the social media teams there going, like, thank you, you just saved me hours of work. And by the mere fact that they share it the way that I gave it to them helps my branding, helps my exposure. So when you do it in that way, if you get a system going for that, then you're helping your guest be better at sharing. And my daughters, my daughter, my young daughters, they go, sharing is caring. That's what we say here. Right? And when we care, though, that benevolence turns into trust factor building Right. Within your network and your community. So being a really good sharer is a great way to make sure that you're building that trust in your community.

On the leadership work that I do, that's one of the behaviors that I talk about.

Right. Benevolence and trust building is key to being a good leader. Right. So, Patrick, is there anything else you want to cover today?

No. I tell you, my head is like spinning right now with so many ideas that I can implement.

Well, that's why we have a video and a recording of this.

Right?

And you're so graciously sharing that with our live audience so that they're out there and they get to hear it and they get to learn from you as well and take some ideas back for themselves. I look forward to you checking back with us and letting us know what you're doing on this as well. So that's one of the things that I've got to figure out the mechanism by how we're going to do it, because I haven't figured that out yet. But after these episode airs, I want to make sure that we touch base in like 30 in 90 days, touch base in a year and see how this shift has occurred and what it's done for you.

Yeah. And you know, Tracy, not that there aren't always times to make changes, but coming into a new year, especially, I think people wanting to see 2020 leave and 2021 come in, I think this is a perfect opportunity to do some of those things, to really set myself up for the new year.

Absolutely. And if you're listening to the show and you're like, it's the middle of the year, because I waited too long, I didn't catch up to this show. And you're just catching this episode, 100 episodes, 50 episodes, like picking a mark where you're saying, you know what, I did this for a while and it's time to have a shift. You can do that at any time. But I agree with you. Shifting at the beginning of a year is a great, is a great plan because people expect change at that time. So you didn't just, like, change it out from underneath them and they didn't need more change right now. So it's a good time to do that as well. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. Thank you for sharing so openly about the progress of your show. And I'm going to have all the links to your show. Some of our thoughts about which of the episodes I liked as well will all be in the blog post for this episode@thebingefactor.com so, Patrick, thank you so much. Learning from leaders. Got to check out his podcast.

I love working with you guys have been awesome for me to help. So thank you.

Thank you so much. So everyone, you'd like to learn and be coached on air, Reach out to me@thebingefactor.com and you could be the next show that comes up for review and we have a strategic discussion. Looking forward to that. I'll be with you again next time on the Binge Factor.

You've been listening to the Binge Factor podcast. For more information on podcasting and videocasting success tips and tactics, please go to thebingefactor.com and be sure to listen to our other show for podcasters called Feed you'd brand. If you'd like to be interviewed on this show as well as featured in training Tracy's column, please go to thebingefactor. Com guest and apply.