The Back End Of Creating A Corporate Podcast with Hailley Griffis of the MakeWorkWork Podcast

Wish you were one of those influencers with raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazzard shares strategies, tips, and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors, and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor. Now let's join Tracy as she explores how to rise above all noise with the binge factor.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to Feed you'd brand center of Influence podcast. And I have a new influencer I'm talking with. I have Haley Griffiths, and she is one of the many hosts of the Science of Social Media, which is Buffers, the Corporation Buffer. It's their podcast. And so we've been listening to that a long time because we're Buffer users here, as many of you may know, because I mention it multiple times in my social media strategy and my social media masterclass. So we're going to talk about how that got kicked off from a corporate standpoint. And then we're also going to shift to talk about Haley's new podcast, Make Work Work, which is a really cool new one. Very different podcast. So it's two different things, but Hailey Griffiths is the head of public relations at Buffer, and that's a suite of social media products that provide tools for visual marketing, audience engagement, analytics. And so she is one of the co hosts and one of the people who helped found that podcast, the Science of Social Media, and for two and a half years. And I think you guys just hit your 150th episode, something like that recently, right?

Yes, that's right. Yeah.

And you're co hosting a podcast called Make Work Work. And who's your co host there as well?

Yeah, her name is Habby, and we're two friends. And so that one's outside of Buffer.

I love it.

Okay, great.

Well, let's talk a little bit about how you got started, and you came up with the idea and decided that a podcast was going to make a great idea for a social media company.

Yeah. So we had someone else on our team that came up with the idea. We sort of have two different blogs at Buffer, and one of our blogs is about workplace culture and transparency. And that team thought they would do a podcast to kick it off and see what happened. They did try a couple of podcast interviews. I think they ran it for a few months, and it was a lot of fun for them, but it was ultimately a lot of work, which I think is something that a Lot of us who do podcasting long term learned very quickly is that it looks like a ton of fun to have a podcast, and it is, but there's also a lot going on in the background. And so they had kicked off that podcast and weren't able to keep it going. But it sort of validated the idea of podcasting for us at Buffer because we had so many really great comments from our users and community members and just people who started listening to that podcast. And they said, I love hearing from you all like that. I love having a Buffer voice that I can listen to via podcasting. So we decided as a marketing team, we were like, well, if we can't do the culture one anymore, let's do one about social media, which is a little bit more in line with what our customers look to us for.

There's some very distinct differences between your two podcasts. We're going to get to talk about your personal one. It's quite different, but there's a sense of. I don't want to say it's exactly this way, but it has a more sense of being more scripted in the podcast that you do for the science of social media. Is that right? Do you guys draw it out? Draft, outline, at least? Because you're working with other people, so you have multiple people who are. If you haven't listened to it yet, you guys should really listen to this because you flip back and forth and it sounds like you've got someone who might be an expert in LinkedIn who would talk about something about that and someone who might be an expert in Twitter and they'll talk about that.

Yeah. And so you're spot on. It is scripted for the science of social media. It's something that we've been very open about, because when we started, the podcast wasn't scripted. So almost three years ago now, when we started the podcast, it wasn't scripted. And you hear a lot more ums and ahs and people might be repeating the same thing. If you have a couple of co hosts on, people will say the same thing. It really didn't feel like a great experience for the listener. What we're known for with our blog posts at Buffer is giving people really clear guidelines for what to do and just actionable takeaways. And so we wanted to sort of take that feeling that people knew about us from the blog and move it over to the podcast. So we decided to go with scripted, just to give the audience the best that we could give them in 15 minutes. Yeah.

And, you know, you guys do it very well, because a lot of scripted ones can sound either too contrived or not personal enough. They get. Because when you write something, you write in this sort of more formal tone.

Yes. Writing for a podcast is a totally different kind of writing.

Yeah, it is. It's like TV scripting.

Right.

You know, you're scripting a story as well, but, you know, it's really interesting. So you've done something that some of our corporate clients have done, and we find that works very well with a corporate podcast or a company podcast. Right. In that you have many hosts, so you're rotating people, and that helps to brand the entire departments. Or we have a Popular Mechanics is one of our podcasts, and they use all the different editors at different times. So different editors contribute, and they're pieced together into a single podcast. And I think that that format that you guys have developed works for you. Was that in your early vision, or did that evolve over time?

That evolved over time a little bit. So what wound up happening is it was myself and one other colleague who started the podcast. We actually started by doing interviews. So way back, if you listened to earlier episodes of the Science of Social Media, you'll hear us interviewing a lot of really wonderful marketing experts. We did move away from that into just two of us being co hosts, and we did decide to expand it because, again, podcasting is a really big job, and it was taking up a lot of both of our times. And then the other thing is, it's just so personal, and it really is nice to be able to hear the voice behind the company. And so we have all these other wonderful voices at Buffer that we really wanted to highlight. And just to give people this idea that there are a lot of people at Buffer that are experts on social media that can keep talking about this with you. So even letting our audience meet more people at Buffer has been really wonderful.

You know, and it is interesting. So, you know, this is what we're hoping that we're doing here at the center of influence, is we're providing other podcasters with podcasters that they might want to listen to, that they might want to aspire to be or model themselves after. And you guys do something a little bit unusual, and I just want to point them out, and then maybe you can comment on how well they're working for you. But you're on the shorter format side. So they're 15 minutes or so, and they're to the point. They're a lot like your blog post. You're right there. You have this rotating host and you have the scripting going on, but you also have a different intro. So like one of you does the intro and the next one speaks. And so it's kind of a, you know, you're actually also going back and forth. And so you're using each of your own editors and your own posts within it as sort of voices of authority at time.

Yes, yes. So we are rotating people in the intro as well, just to give people sort of that different voice. So ideally, the podcast doesn't start with the same voice twice in a row.

And sometimes it has different music too, right?

Yeah, we do change up the music a little bit too. It's always funny to see if our listeners notice or if they don't notice. But, you know, we just like to spice things up a little bit.

I like it. But you create a lot more work for yourselves on that on the back end. Are you guys doing this all internally?

We are doing this all internally, which is definitely a struggle, but it's been a lot of fun to experiment with. We are naturally a group of people that really love running experiments and seeing what resonates with people, which is ultimately how we wound up with the format that we have now. Cause like I mentioned, we had a very different format when we first started. We were looking more at maybe half hour interviews with only one host. So that 30 minute wasn't quite working. But that 15 minute that we've landed at, that's been working for us is all because we figured out who is listening to us. And it is really busy social media marketers or marketers that are interested in social media that are on the go and they just need quick tips really, really fast.

And sometimes I don't have time to read, so I just gotta listen to it.

Right, exactly. And that's one of the big things for market. Just like, don't ask me to watch a video, don't ask me to read a blog post, just like, tell me what it is quickly. I want the high level.

There you go. I want the quick tour. I love it.

And so is there anything funny or interesting or have you discovered that it's really added to the bottom line of the business? How has it worked for you?

Yeah, so what was really interesting in the beginning is that all of our listeners were existing buffer customers and community members. So they already knew about us, which isn't exactly who we were targeting. But it was kind of a nice bonus for these people to get to know us even better. And so from a marketing perspective, it was kind of very internal people that already knew about us. As we grew and we started getting featured on more podcast lists, we started getting featured on itunes lists. Then we had people coming to our podcast who were like, oh, I had no idea what Buffer was until I listened to the podcast a couple of times. And we don't even promote Buffer. It's not a very hard sell in the podcast often at all. It's really value first. And then if you happen to check out Buffer, you'll see that this is a really supportive tool for what you're trying to do.

Yeah. Occasionally you guys will mention something like a deeper blog post or something else that's there, but you. You're not pushy about it at all. And I think that's greatly appreciate because many of us are customers already, so we don't want to be sold to you again.

Right. And also, I want to say that it takes away from credibility a little bit in the audience's eye if you're always pushing your product on them while you're giving them value. So I think we definitely lean to be way more heavy towards the value side of things, to just build that trust and relationship, because you never know how many episodes someone has listened to. I met someone last week who said she'd been listening since the very beginning, which was incredible.

Yeah, I think I'm one of those people. I mean, I don't listen to every single episode, I have to admit that. But I spot listen when the topic attracts me.

I love it.

Or when it's, you know, like, for a while there, we were not doing anything on Instagram in the early days. And so it didn't interest me whenever you would talk about it. But then now I'm like, okay, let me go back and listen to all the Instagram ones. Cause we're trying to get this right and get this set up. So, yeah, you do find it is a useful resource.

Right. And that's the idea, too. A little bit more of that evergreen content and less sort of the news focus where it will expire week after week. And if you hadn't listened to those old ones, they wouldn't be relevant to you now. But a lot of those Instagram ones, I mean, unless Instagram has changed their algorithm, they're still relevant.

Right. And, you know, so that is a common problem, actually, that you raised, is that, you know, there are the issues of sometimes you think you're making a timeless episode, but then the algorithm shifts or something changes. Have you actually delisted any episodes or done anything like that where you just take them down.

We haven't done that with any of our episodes. I'm not sure it's something we will do because I don't think we expect everyone to listen to every episode. But we like having them there as a resource if they want to go back. I think something that we have done instead is we've actually pulled episodes and published them again. So some of our evergreen content that is still relevant, that has done really well, we'll republish it with a new intro and we'll be like, hey, this is a. We called them Science of Social Media. Select SSN selects. And we were like, oh, this is a select episode. And this was your favorite episode from 2018. So here you go. And that's something that we did over the holidays last year, actually, just so we could take a break from podcasting.

Well, and, you know, a lot of times that doesn't work. I have actually a whole entire podcast about how replays, the nastiness you can get from replays. But if you're really specific about them and if you are really putting a new intro on them and giving a new reason for people to re listen to it, I think that works. And so you've been able to do that by giving it a new intro and highlighting it.

Yeah, and we also do that very lightly as well. Maybe, you know, a very, very small number. So we're a weekly podcast, and a very small number every year would be replays, and they would always, you know, usually be around the holidays when it's like, okay, we're trying to give our team a vacation.

Everybody needs some time off, even podcasters.

Yes. Weekly podcasters. It's still coming out on Monday, but we're not working well.

Great. Well, before we get to the Make Work Work and your new podcast, which I really want to talk about, I was hoping maybe we could touch on my top on my five best ways, because we do this with every podcaster and we're compilating it into sort of seeing what the patterns are and seeing what the differences are. So I'd love your take on these things. So sharing some lessons or experiences of the best ways to book great guests. And I know you only did that in the beginning, but we did only.

Do that in the beginning, but I was the one that booked all our guests. So I have plenty of thoughts about this.

Good.

I think one of the things for booking great guests is I do not look to other podcasts. That's something that is definitely a struggle with the marketing world. People kind of go on a podcasting circuit tour and you suddenly see the same person talking about the same thing on, like, 10 different podcasts. We were looking for people that weren't on podcasts.

I'm so glad you said this, because no one said this yet, but it's exactly what I think, too. Like, I reject guests who come to me and they're on a speaking tour because they tend to say the same thing again and again.

And it's kind of like if you are one of the people that listen to these marketing podcasts, you probably already follow that person. You've probably seen their announcement in their newslet, on their Twitter, because you follow them in all of these places, you know, so that was a big one for me, was not just doing what all the other podcasters was doing when it came to guests. So for us, we were like, okay, well, who really manages social media for some of these really cool companies? It's like Merriam Webster. We reached out to their social media manager, and I don't think she had done very many interviews or podcasts at all. But she's one of those people that she's just an expert. She's in a very cool place, and she's come up with an incredible company voice. So it wound up being a wonderful interview. So it takes a little bit more work. But I would say when it comes to guests, don't do what everyone else is doing, but really do what you think will be interesting.

Oh, I love that. Thank you for that one.

Yeah.

Okay, so how about increasing listeners? How have you guys gone about approaching that?

Yeah, that is such a tough one. We promote on all of our own channels. So anywhere we currently have an audience, whether that's social media, newsletters, our blog, anywhere that we can promote the podcast, we promote the podcast. Because if people already like us in one place, maybe they'll like us in the podcast and then maybe they'll share it with friends. One of the other things that we did end up doing was doing Facebook ads pointing people to the podcast just to see if it worked. And it did work. So we did end up getting a bunch of listeners that way. We don't currently run Facebook ads, but we sort of didn't as an experiment. We were really surprised with how well it worked.

Great. Oh, some great new tips I haven't heard yet. And so you guys are doing the production in house. So how do you produce it in a professional way?

Yeah, that has been a struggle. I think if you went back to the beginning episodes, maybe they wouldn't sound as professional. So it was a lot of trial and error, a lot of learning. We made sure to invest in really good equipment. We made sure to be honest with each other and with our team. So we asked for a lot of feedback if we got on there and our audio levels were terrible. We want to know about it. We don't want our team to be like, no, it was fine, it was great. It doesn't matter that your audio spiked. So for us, it was sort of about learning. And, you know, it was my other co host that did all of the editing and mixing the podcast to make sure that it sounded really good. So on his end, it was a lot of education and just really investing and make sure. Making sure he could do this well.

Yeah. Well, I feel for you. That's why we don't. That's why we have a company.

Right.

Because a lot of people don't want to produce it themselves because it is a lot of work.

It is.

So then how do you encourage engagement with your audience?

Yeah, so we ask a lot of questions. We ask our audience a lot of questions. And ideally not just, oh, you know, do you like cake or do you not like cake? You know, kind of like questions that are relevant ones. Yeah, more relevant questions. Maybe even questions that spark debate or questions that people will be really highly opinionated about. And we have found that Twitter has been great for our podcast listeners. And it's probably because there are a lot of marketers on Twitter. So it might just be because we.

Don'T have attention spans and we need stuff fast and in sound bites.

Exactly.

Marketers are not, I mean, are opinionated people. So it does not surprise me that you can get engagement with them.

Yeah. So that's worked really well for us. So we have a hashtag called Buffer Podcast and we would shout out the hashtag at the end of every single episode. And then not only that, if we did have a question we were going to ask people, we would put the hashtag in the beginning or in the middle of the episode, wherever that question would pop up as well. So just sort of really inviting our audience to reach out for a while. We were also always saying our Twitter handles so people could find us, but now we just tell them to tag Buffer because it's easier for the team internally to tag us.

Yeah. Then remember all of that. I love that. That's a great way.

Wonderful.

Well then in the sense you guys are not monetizing it, but it probably does have a bottom line result for you. So do you have best way to monetize it? Is normally my question here, but I think maybe the question is, is it monetizing for you?

Yeah. So what we've done now instead of monetizing is we will place plugs for our own products and features sometimes. So instead of letting others monetize our audience, since we're already the company and we have this great reputation with our podcast listeners of providing a lot of value, what we do now is when we have a marketing launch, one of our product marketers will come on and do a really quick like 15 or 30 second, like, hey, here's this new buffer feature. And again, that's few and far between. So it's not like that's something you're going to see every episode, but every couple of episodes, something like that might pop up where we're giving a little bit more of a pitch towards our products.

Interesting. Well, good. Well, let's talk about how you did you. I mean, you want to take on another podcast. That sounds crazy to some people, right? But you decided to. And the contrast is. So what people don't know yet is your Make Work work is a lot longer show.

It's totally different. It's totally different. And Tracy, when you told me that you'd listen to both of my podcasts, I was like, wow, that's a big commitment on Make Work Work.

It is. And I have to tell you that I tried to listen to you on double speed, but it's a little too fast. So it was one and a half times because I can trim the silence on my app that I use.

So I trim the silence and listen.

To you on one and a half times. So it only took me half the time.

I admit I can never do that. And I feel like I've done that before on my own podcast. I've been like, wow, I sound kind of like a chipmunk on high speeds. I don't, I don't want other people to listen to me like this.

Yeah, I talk really fast, too, so I know I sound like a chipmunk. But your other show for the Science of Social Media, if you did it because you're scripted so you're have a little more slower pace to it, but you're packing in so much detail. If you, if I listen to that one at that speed, I don't listen to that one that fast because 15 minutes isn't too long, but I would miss some content. But because your other show has more of a chat style to it, where you're talking and you're chatting and you're going back and forth with your co host. I'm not missing as much of the great details, so.

Great. Well, I'm happy to hear that. Yeah, it is a very different show from the Science of Social Media, but for me it was. The Science of Social Media was the first podcast that I'd ever done. We really built it from the ground up. It was very much a side project internally at Buffer, in addition to our existing roles. And I just loved it. I loved podcasting and I was like, this is the medium for me personally that I prefer when I'm walking around my house or when I'm driving, I'm listening to podcasts and audiobooks. Very, very audio focused person. So yes, I decided to start a second podcast with a friend of mine and it absolutely is a very different setup, but usually an hour or more episodes.

Well, tell the audience what the purpose is and what it's about.

Yeah, so it's a really good friend of mine. We've actually never lived in the same city. She's Icelandic and lives in London and I am Canadian and I live in Colorado. And we became really good friends and started having these really in depth conversations about tech, travel and books, which wound up being what the podcast is about. And it's been incredible to find this community, this other community of people that are interested in all the same things as us, whether it's productivity or reading fiction, all of those sorts of things. So we've started a podcast just with the goal of sort of sharing a little bit more about our processes and our systems because they are a little bit more unique and connecting with other people who are doing the same thing.

I think the marketers in you both are showing in how you named your show. So Make Work Work is actually one word.

It is, Yeah, I know, it's like a hashtag. Right.

In and of itself because I typed it in the search engine wrong the first time and then typed it in. I said, maybe it's one word. Maybe it really is one word.

Yeah, that's the other fun thing is we are both marketers and creative people and so it's just been a blast to work on this kind of side project together. And I think it's also nice. I enjoy listening to a lot of shows just like this where you have two people talking. That's one of my favorite formats for podcasts. So the Science of Social Media was really fun. That's not usually what I would listen to personally. So I think it was nice to kind of transition to a podcast with more of a creative outlet for me.

I love it. Has it been harder to. I mean, you're only like, I don't know, under 20 episodes in, right? And so. Yeah. So has it been harder to drive an audience because of the different format and because you're obviously not promoting it on your other podcast?

Yes. So it's been much more difficult. It's much smaller than the science of social media, of course, because we're driving it based on our own personal networks, which, surprisingly, we're still able to get quite a few listeners, but it's just not to that level. So it has been a little bit more difficult. And it's also been. We've run up on a lot more problems around resources than I do at Buffer, where, okay, we're both working full time, and Habby, who's my co host, has to edit two and a half hours down to one hour and make it sound good. And it's going to take her a really long time to do that while working full time and ideally having a social life and being able to sleep at the same time. So we've just run into sort of like, time, resources, a little bit more with that podcast.

Absolutely. Oh, I can see that and understand that completely. I have four shows myself, and so. Wow. Yeah. So my oldest show is WTFF 3D Printing Podcast, and we hardly ever post new ones, but we did over 550 episodes, so there's plenty there for people who want to listen. And we do do an occasional one when something new happens that interests us. And so. But my newest podcast is the New Trust Economy, and that's about blockchain and innovation and cryptocurrency and stuff like that. And my co host is in New York and we're friends, but we've really only known each other about a year, and so finding time in our two schedules with the time difference is difficult. So I'm sure you're struggling with that, too.

I am. I used to live in Toronto, so I was two time zones closer to her in London, which was much easier, But Colorado is mountain time, so it's beautiful here. But there's a lot of 5am, 6am mornings for me. Oh, no. Yeah. And luckily I'm a morning person and she's an evening person, so this works out really well with the show. We always joke that if I had been the one in London, she had been the one in Colorado, this wouldn't work.

It would never work. Yeah, well, see, I'm not a morning person. And so that's always a difficulty for us for time to get it accomplished. So I know I'm like, I'm not as coherent early in the morning as.

I should be, Right? Yes. No matter how much coffee schedules are such a challenge, especially with podcasting. And I think a lot of people are surprised, too, that we are able to record from our own homes and sort of record together that way, instead of recording together in the same place. I was surprised at how many people thought we had to be in the same place to record.

Oh, no, not at all. We're not in the same place right now and we're. No, yeah, absolutely. No, you don't need to be. I love that. Well, I want to end with, you know, really talking about how you then share the podcast on social media because you're a social media expert. So, you know, how has it been? Have you found some ways that work better than others for sharing podcasts on social.

Yeah, so I would say definitely sharing them from a really genuine place. This one's a little hard to explain, but I think a lot of people, when they market a show on social media, it will be episode 53. This one is about LinkedIn. And then there's just like.

It's really impersonal. It sounds like a commercial.

Right, right. It's probably. If you're using Buffer to promote your show, that's probably what we pulled in. Just from the information on your website. That's not necessarily what you want to go with. So I found that it's been really helpful to just add that level of, like, why are you excited as a co host? What is exciting about this show? What is interesting to people? What are they going to learn? Sort of asking yourself those questions. I always tell people when they're planning their social media content, would you click on that? Like, would you like that? Would you engage with that? Because if the answer is no, then you probably need to keep working on it. And so that's something that we do a lot with, make work work, where we really try to spice it up, add a lot of our own voice and tone. It's not super professional. We'll make it, you know, sort of a little bit more edgy, or we'll add a little bit more. Just a little bit more personality into it so it doesn't sound like, you know, it's being dictated and it's a corporate decision what this is going to look like. And I think people can sense that.

Yeah. And it makes them want to say, well, hey, what am I Missing out on.

Right. And we were. We were blown away again. We just used our own networks to connect with people. We were blown away by the audience that we have amassed again through Twitter and the engagement that we get there. When we put an episode out, we have people tweeting us, oh, my gosh, I can't wait to listen to this. I was supposed to do something else, but now I'm going to listen to this. And it's just like, wow, that's huge for us. So we're really impressed with the community and I think that it comes from us being very genuine with who we are and our personalities. We're not trying to be like anyone else. We're being ourselves and we're sharing this in our own words. And I think that people like that, especially in an age when everyone knows they're being marketed to all the time.

You know, it's so interesting. So I have a corporation here that we do all of the production, post production on podcasts and everything. And we have. Our clients have begged us to do their social posting for us. And I refuse for exactly that reason. I was like, look, you have tools like buffer. You have all of these things out there, right?

Yeah.

But I can't write the post for you because it won't work. And so why should you? I'll give you all the assets. That's what we do. You know, we give them visuals. There's lots of COVID art. Like, our team does all of that for them. But you still have to share it actually yourself, because when you do it yourself, you get more power in it. That's what you're pointing to. And I love that.

Right. You get the voice and tone. Right. So do you do audiograms as well? This is something I'm recently obsessed with.

Yes, we do. We're finding audiograms tracking really high.

Yes.

And it's the captioning, we think. That's what we think it is. We actually. I don't think people really care to see, like, the sound wave go up and down. It's kind of fun to put it in and it looks cool, but I don't think they really care. What they're looking for is the captioning because they don't want to watch a video and maybe they can't always hear where they are, but they can look at it on their phone in the middle of their commute or, you know, and they can read the words. And so that's what I think is why it's tracking so well.

That's Absolutely. My understanding, too. This is something I talk to people about all the time. When they're putting videos on Facebook or Instagram, I'm like, well, the default is audio off. So unless people know what you're talking about, if you're going to put words in there, make sure that they can read them, because that's going to go much better. So we have seen higher engagement just from the studies we've done at Buffer with posts that do have captions on them. So that's something I love about Audiogram as well.

Well, you know, the other thing about Audiogram, and you guys mentioned this in your show about social media, about some of the social media things that are working this year. And I think it was in the segment on LinkedIn that. And I don't know if you personally did that segment. I don't remember which one of your co hosts did that, but there was a segment on LinkedIn and you were talking about how more personal is ranking higher in the algorithm. More personal type posts. And what I find is when I post the audiogram, it tends to get a more personal reaction. It tends to get that higher boost in it because it has the captioning on it. And also because I'm very careful with how I write the post that goes with it, because I treat my LinkedIn with utter reverence. It's my number one social platform and so I never allow any posting on that platform that doesn't come from my voice.

I love that.

But I think it's working there.

Yes, I can totally see that working. I think a lot of people misunderstand LinkedIn. I am a huge fan of LinkedIn, so I wasn't one of the co hosts on that episode. But interestingly, that episode was written based off of a bunch of blog posts on my personal blog. I'm just such a fan of LinkedIn and I totally agree. But I think that personal side of things works on LinkedIn. That personal voice.

Yes.

I think people don't expect that to work, so they use a different voice or they use a business voice instead. But you can have so much success on LinkedIn by just being yourself and sharing some really great things about your business or the work that you're doing. So I think you're definitely onto something there. Yeah.

So I have this. We have this great friend, Brandon Leopoldis, who is an attorney in la, and you think, oh, attorneys, they're going to do a video. He does these video posts that are kind of quirky and funny and about 10 minutes long or less. And he just kind of like, it is about contract law and specifically sports entertainment, contract loss. So it's really niche. But I can't tell you the amount of comments on it, the likes on it. Like, I was like, you're killing it, Brandon. And you don't only have friends who are attorneys. So everybody's getting value from this somehow. And I think it's getting a boost in LinkedIn, which is really helping him.

I love that. Okay, so one of our very early Buffer podcast episodes that I still reference for people was an interview that we did with the CEO of Bikini Lux. Her name is Candace Gaelic. Phenomenal LinkedIn power user, sells bikinis via LinkedIn. That is her best social network for selling bikinis. People never work.

You think that's selling at all, right? Oh, my gosh.

That's amazing. Yeah. And it's because, I mean, if you think of the audience on LinkedIn, the audience is usually educated, and they're a little bit higher income and earning. And so if she's selling luxury bikinis, you know, that's an audience that has. I think I learned recently, too, that LinkedIn, it's like 41% of millionaires are on LinkedIn as well.

Oh, wow. Well, that's good to know. There you go. Well, so what are your biggest challenges besides time crunch going forward? And, you know, is there anything that you want the audience to know that.

You wish you knew when you started? Oh, gosh. I think paying for someone to mix the podcast has been the best investment for us. So in terms of maybe we'll do the editing ourselves, but we'll pass it off to someone else to make sure that the audio levels are good. And that comes from me being someone that tends to talk really loudly or laugh really loudly.

I might resemble that.

Yeah. Which is a podcast editor's worst nightmare. So it turns out that mixing your podcast, there is a noticeable difference. So it might be something that you feel like you don't need to invest in, but I promise that your audience will hear a difference. And I've been that person sitting in my car listening to a podcast where one co host, I have to turn them up, and the other co host, I have to turn them down, and it's just not worth it to me. I stop listening because that's just too much work. So I think pay attention to audio quality. It goes a really long way. One of the other things that I like to talk to people about is be open to receiving criticism and feedback on your audio cues. And this is really difficult. But I have stopped listening to podcasts again because of the way that people say things, because it's not correct or they say too much or, you know, just the way that their voice is, because people really listen to you. They have to enjoy your voice if they're going to be listening to you for that long, for that many episodes. So I would say be open to criticism on how to improve.

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. Well, Haley, I'm so excited to have had you on. I was so excited when I saw you come through the solicitation that we have going on with Authority magazine and I was like, I definitely want to invite this person on. I'm really glad you came on and I'm glad we had a chance to talk and I hope we'll stay in touch and maybe you'll give us an update in the future on how Make Work Work is going.

Thank you. Yes, thank you so much for having me on, Tracy. This has been such a pleasure. It's always so fun to talk to other podcasters and I am looking forward to following along with how all four of your podcasts are doing, because that's a lot of podcasts.

Thank you. Thank you so much.

I appreciate it.

Everyone. This has been Tracie Hazzard on Feed you'd brand center of Influence. Don't forget that you can find the blog posts for these not only on FeedYourBrand Co, but you can also find them on Medium under the Authority magazine section. And you will find some of these top five best ways showing up in buzzfeed in the near future. So thanks everyone for listening.

You've been listening to the Binge Factor Podcast from. For more information on podcasting and videocasting success tips and tactics, please go to thebingefactor.com and be sure to listen to our other show for podcasters called Feed you'd brand. If you'd like to be interviewed on this show as well as featured in Tracy's column, please go to thebingefactor.com guest and apply.