The Essential (And Really Effective) Podcast Guest Skills No One Taught You With Best-Selling Author Of The Career Toolkit, Mark Herschberg

Wish you were one of those influencers with raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazzard shares strategies, tips, and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors, and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor. Now let's join Tracy as she explores how to rise above all the digital noise with the binge Factor.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Binge Factor. I'm Tracy Hazzard, and I am going to talk to someone who's not a podcaster today, but I kind of think he's an honorary podcaster. I have the privilege of being his 99th guest interview spot. So he's guesting on our show. He's done 98 shows before us, and I thought I would have him come and share with us all the different lessons he's learned because he is the author of the essential Skills for Success that no one taught you, the Career Toolkit. And so I thought this would be great. I met him on Clubhouse. He goes under the name Hershey on Clubhouse, but his name's Mark Hershberg, and he's the author of the Career Toolkit, the Essential Skills for Success that no one taught you. And today we're going to talk about the essential and really effective podcast guest skills no one taught you yet until now. Right. So anyway, I'm excited to have him on because I think, well, I know he's going to reinforce some of the things we keep talking about here, which is how to be a better podcast host. Right. The things that we can do to be more successful. But remembering that our guesting strategies are what can really be our biggest strength in building our listener base. And I hear again and again from all of our guests that are on the Binge Factor, I hear that they're struggling with encouraging engagement and increasing listenership and monetizing their show. Those are the three ones we ask those questions again and again. And those are the ones that I hear that I wish I was doing better. I don't feel as successful in this particular place. Let me think of what I do do that works, but I really should do more of it. I hear it again and again. And you do, too, every time you listen to a successful podcast interviewer. So we know that's not working for the host of you out there. So let's take it from Mark's perspective and take a look at what might work best if he's going to be a more effective guest for you and more effective at sharing and getting the audience that he's working so hard to build to share and come and listen to your show. So I'm going to introduce Mark. He's from tracking criminals and terrorists on the dark web to creating marketplaces and new authentication systems, Mark has spent his career launching and developing new ventures at startups and Fortune 500s and in academia, he helped to start the Undergraduate Practice opportunities program dubbed MIT's Career Success Accelerator, where he teaches annually. At MIT. He received a BS in physics, a BS in electrical engineering and Computer Science, and a Master's in Engineering in Electrical engineering and Computer science, focusing on cryptography. At Harvard Business School, Mark helped create a platform used to teach finance at prominent business schools. He also works with many nonprofits including Techie Youth and Plant Million Corals. He was one of the top ranked ballroom dancers in the country and now lives in New York City where he's known for his social gatherings, including his annual Halloween party as well his diverse cufflink collection. Don't you just love that introduction? It's really great. It's nice and short, but it's got some really great little features that make you wonder about it. And now I don't like to completely read through and do these ahead of time. You know that I record them after my interview with them. And now I'm sorry, we never got a chance to work in the whole cufflink thing or the ballroom dancing, which is why you're going to have to go to Mark's website to go check out his other interviews where he does talk about those things. So that's also a kind of a key thing is to tie some things and it gives you some diversity that you may or may not cover, but it makes people want to come back and check you out. So there we go. We have one of our first lesson from Mark right there and we'll get onto it. Let's hear from Mark Hirschberg and let's get some 99 lessons going. 99 interviews later. Here's what we've learned. Mark, thanks so much for joining me. I'm proud and excited to be your 99th podcast guest interview.

I am super excited that number 99 is with you.

Well, and we're going to talk all about podcast guesting today. So. And you just got. I wanted to start at the beginning here. So what made you decide that podcasting because 99 interviews, I mean this is obviously you've been on the path. What made you decide this was going to be Such a critical part of launching the career Toolkit book.

My friend and successful business author Dorie Clark, she is the first person I went to when I realized I was writing a book. And she said podcasting is the way to go. Just like celebrities, when they have a new project, they go on the late night talk shows. Sadly, Trevor Noah is not returning my calls, but podcasts are where I can go. And that's how a lot of authors and a lot of people with new content can reach a wide audience. So it creates a great partnership where we get our message out to an audience and we bring new ideas to the audience that you have.

So is this your first book?

This is my first book, yes.

So when did you launch it?

It came out in January of 2021. The start of this year.

The start of this year. So it's relatively new. So how long have you been doing this? Is because I think people don't realize how long sometimes shows are out in terms of their publication schedule. But how long before the launch did you start the podcast interviews?

That's a really good question. Dory warned me. Some podcasts book out six months, even more in advance. So I knew I had to start early. And I originally thought I was going to launch last summer. So I started doing some outreach in the spring. In fact, I didn't even have my website up, which was a mistake because I think you need the website to look legitimate.

I agree. I think that's a good plan.

And then there. There was one delay after another. And then as we got into the fall, I said, I don't want to launch in the fall. So I kept getting pushed back and back. I think I really started doing my outreach in earnest, probably, I'd say in the fall of 2020. And so probably September, October, I started doing outreach. I started getting the first couple podcasts recorded, I'd say around November or so.

So really only a few months in advance of your real launch. So that's not too bad.

Yeah. And I think for the bulk of it, certainly as you go for the bigger shows as a guest, they're going to book out earlier. And one thing that's always helpful to see as a guest is to get a sense of that timeline to know on your podcast, how far in advance are you booking? Because that will help me reach out at an appropriate time for you.

That's great. You know, this is something I was just making a note on. And as always, here, listeners out there, binge factors, listeners. This is a great ad to your page. So if You've got one of those guest booking pages or those guest application pages like we do on ours, or if you're working with a handful of publicists and other things, setting those expectations about where you are in your show is a really good thing to put right up front there. So that's great. Thanks, Mark, for that. Great tip already. And we just got started here, so. 99, that's a lot. Did it feel like you're constantly on your computer? That you're constantly in front of the microphone? How did it feel as you were doing them? Did it feel like it was that many?

It really didn't feel like it was that many. There were a couple weeks where I was doing probably about 10, 12 a week, and that was a little grinding. But even then, we're all on our computer all day now anyway, so this was a nice break. Even though I was doing 10 or 12 a week, it was a good break from all my other meetings because I'm talking about something that gets me excited.

Okay, well, let's start at the beginning of how your process works. So did you use another company to help you build a list and figure out who you wanted to guest on?

I did.

You did it all yourself. And this is why I invited Mark on, because I had a feeling that was going to be the case. So you did it all yourself. So how'd you pick the shows?

Yeah. Now, I should note, in fairness, I have been building startup companies for the past 20 some years. I've done marketing companies, so I do have some background in this.

You're not a newbie through the whole thing. Got it.

I picked my shows using a couple different techniques. So first I just looked for podcasts that kind of met the criteria. So for me, it's careers, it's business, entrepreneurship, people looking to just improve in some area so I could just search on that. And I first started with top career podcasts, top business podcasts. I'd look at lists like Apple under business. I could also see suggested podcasts. When you look at some, some suggest others. I signed up for sites like Potted and Podmatch and Matchmaker FM and some of the Facebook groups. There's lots of groups. I also look for people who I liked, other authors I respected, and said, oh, what podcasts have they been on?

That's my favorite one that you mentioned in the remark. I call it trolling your competitors or trolling who you want to be like.

Exactly. This is what generated the starting set. Now, just because I found the podcast didn't mean I'm going to reach out to them each time. I'd have to look and figure out first, do they take guests? Are they still active? I can't tell you the number of podcasts, especially last year, that began last April, right as the pandemic started. And by June, no more episodes because they discovered, wow. It's not simply, I turn on record for an hour and I'm done. It actually takes work. So I want to make sure the podcast had been around a bit, that they took guests and then seeing, can I add actual value? And that's something I think, unfortunately, a lot of guests don't do well, as they think, oh, I've got my message. Let me just cram it down the.

Throats of whoever will listen.

Yeah. And really, to be a good guest, we need to think, what value can I add to your audience?

So did you listen to a lot of the shows?

Oh, so that's a pet peeve. I would look at what the episodes are. Right. Read the summaries. I'd read, what is it? I'd read what they say their mission is, look at the website. I'd listen to a few minutes of some episodes just to get a feel for what their style is. There have been a couple podcasters who say, oh, what was your favorite episode? And I'd write and say, look, I'll be honest, I don't sit there and listen to all your episodes. I don't expect you to read my book. If you do, great. But you probably don't read the books of all your authors. I know many don't. And let's be honest about what we're here for now. I paid some attention to you. I didn't just randomly pick you, but I didn't spend a lot of time, just like you probably didn't spend a lot of time on me. So that's been one of my pet peeves.

Yeah, well, actually I do, but that's because, you know, of the way that we vet here, you are different than the way that I normally vet people. So what I did for you. So normally when I vet a guest here, I will. Because they're already podcasters. I go to their show, I listen to their show, I check out their website. I have a whole thing that's just like you just did, that you just outlined that I do to decide if they're a right fit for the show to begin with. And then. But then when I'm prepping for the interview, I listen to three episodes minimum. And so that's kind of the way that I do it and I'll go through three episodes minimum. So what I did for you was I jumped around and I checked out some of the places where you guested already to listen to, you know, how you spoke, how articulate were you. What, you know, because that's what I want. I want to make sure that we're going to have a good rapport here and then we're going to have this good back and forth going on. If we don't do that, if someone is like really stuck in their sound bites and it's not right fit for me. And so that's how I knew you were going to be right for the show. Was able to have Jen extend. Jen Orvis on our team here, extend the invitation to you to do that because I thought, oh, this will work. So it is important that you check that out and make sure that's a match for you. So I love that. So you did all this work yourself, which is a lot of work, and you still had to launch your book. That seems really daunting to a lot of people. And. But I have to say that I haven't seen very many successful publicist or placement agencies do better, that they don't do better than that. And you spend a lot of money. I think the way you've done it is at least you made it a better fit for you. As you were about going out and doing it, did you find out at any of the 99 that you had a misfit? That you were like, wow, I was really wrong about this show. Now you don't have to out them on me, but you know, out them to me. But, you know, and you were like, I should have listened more.

No, I don't think any was a misfit. In fact, sometimes actually even record one. Earlier today where I started to feel, how's this going to work? But I have the advantage. I've been teaching this for about 20 some years, so I know my content well. And that makes it really easy for me to figure out whether it's directly for my book or other related content. I can find something that fits. The other thing that I'm able to do. There's a second tip I want to give to your listeners. Be clear about who your audience is. You might think it's obvious, oh, it's women in the workforce. It's new moms, it's people into rock and roll. Okay, great. And I could guess that from the title or some other background, but is it when you say women in the workforce? Is it young women? Is it women of all ranges? Is it primarily us? Are you also overseas? Do you focus on certain types of women in the workforce? Blue collar, white collar, pink collar? What can you tell me about the audience? And the more you can tell me, the more I can make sure as a guest, I can tailor my message to give them value. And so I'm always able to. This is the question I asked before every interview, tell me about your audience so I make sure I can deliver value. And that gives me confidence as a guest that, okay, this is going to be useful to the audience. So please make sure that is somewhere in what you send out to your guests or somewhere on your website you might not want to be public because you might not want to scare people off. Like, oh, our group is 30 to 50. You might think it's going to scare away the younger listeners. Okay, don't make it public, but share that with your upcoming guests so they know. I don't want to use references to Spongebob if my target audience is 40 plus.

Actually, you might. You might still. Spongebob is ancient now.

That's true. Right.

But no, that's a really great tip there and I'm so glad you say that because, yeah, sometimes we don't want to make those things public. We certainly don't necessarily want to put them in our description unless that's really what we're going for and trying to. But putting that in our guest back and forth so the response emails, the things that prep you, that's a great place to put that. So it gets that in your head ahead of time so you're able to really focus and think about which story do I want to tell, which chapter do I want to highlight? So let's talk about the results that you've received. I want to jump there before we start talking about what good things and what bad things did you experience over across the 99? But what kind of results have you started to see? So it's been since January the book has launched. Have you seen lifts in book sales?

I absolutely have. Now the only marketing I've done was a single press release the day it came out. And I happened again article in Forbes right before it came out. But other than that, it has been nothing but podcasts. And I sold out my entire first print run in two weeks. Wow. And we've had great sales ever since, with the second print run all due to podcasting. I haven't even run a single ad yet. That's fantastic podcasting. I have seen because I sell primarily through Amazon. It's everywhere. But Amazon's the big one. I don't see the immediate sales on Amazon because I don't directly sell there. But I do see my author rank and what I would notice because it updates hourly. Sometimes I check and I'd see, ooh, I just jumped up 200,000 places. Okay, some podcasts must have came out. They didn't even alert me yet.

I haven't gotten the email that says I was live and I've already seen the jump. That's great that you can see that. So you're watching the author ranking. That's an interesting way to look at that. And it's more timely than the other results.

It's not great. Look every once in a while because hourly by hourly sales rankings, literally, it's changing overnight. All of a sudden, people are buying books overseas that aren't mine, and my ranking drops way down. So, yeah, too much stock in that. It was a useful sign to know when a new podcast was coming out.

That's great. Now, did you find any problems with, like, where to send people and how to, you know, like that? I think that gets confusing when you make a call to action or the host says, where can they find you, Mark?

It's particularly difficult for me because I have multiple calls to action, so I can send them to the website and always, okay, here's the website. I've got my pitch for that. But then, okay, buy the book. That's an obvious call to action. It's almost implied. I also have a free app. I got to tell them, download the free app. I have other resources. I have certain resources for HR people to use so they can employ some of these techniques to tramp the organization. Well, that's a different call to action. I have to try and fit them all in, but not overwhelm people. At least I house them all under one single website.

Yeah, that's right. I'm a big fan of the single website. Then sends them to all the different things that you. You can find my app there. You can find resources for HR professionals. I love that because one thing to get them to remember is so much easier.

Exactly.

Well, let's talk about what some of the really good things. Some of the really good things that happened that you were like, wow, they did something fantastic on this show. And you're welcome in the good things to out anyone you would like who did something successful out any of those great podcasters.

I had a really great podcast last week. This guy listened to About a dozen of my podcasts ahead of time, which he read the book cover to cover, listened to a dozen podcasts. So he was pulling out little snippets because obviously they're the standard things that get repeated fairly often in podcasts. But he was picking up on little things. He did some other research. He knew about my parents. He said, oh, I saw you dedicated the book to your parents. So I wanted to drill into that look up. And I mentioned one of my parents in the book. I talked about my father's career. So he asked, what does your mother do? And I was impressed with his level of research. I wouldn't expect that from everyone, but it was impressive.

It's kind of flattering, isn't it?

It's flattering. I got us into some interesting topics beyond just the standard, oh, you know, tell us what you say in chapter two. So it really created a unique experience.

I think that's really great. So deep research that impressed you. What other things?

There are a lot of folks who, I shouldn't say a lot. There are a handful of ones I've done that were playful. I do a lot of business podcasts and I'll even, I'll change my tone from podcast to podcast. Okay, let's talk about business podcast and how this can impact your customers. But then there are just the playful ones and we'll talk about one of them. We talked about the pirate degree at mit, you can actually get a pirate certificate and it's fun to bring those in because I think even in the business podcast, okay, let's talk about adding value to your customers or whatever your bottom line is. But bringing in those personal anecdotes, it livens it up. It makes it a little more fun, makes it more interesting and engaging. I always like to have a little bit of that. And for the non business ones, I do things like the 500 Lounge podcast. I was on the Deciding Factor podcast. Those were a little more playful and made it interesting.

Was there anything that really went not great in the process of trying to book them or trying to follow up and get on? Did any of those happen?

Some of the processes can be a little frustrating. Many people have, here's the automated form, here's calendarly and that's great. The ones who don't where you're manually emailing back and forth times you're available, little bit of a pain or okay, I have to put all the stuff in. So having a form makes it so much easier for the guest and I suspect for you because everything's in one place. Now, sometimes it doesn't always align. One of the things I get is, okay, name three points that our audience can walk away with. I think that's a very good question to ask. Right. It really gets what's the bottom line of the value going to be delivered in this episode? Now I have a book. The nature of my book is I have 10 chapters each on a different topic and so I can speak about a lot of different things. I say, okay, well look, I'm going to send you a packet with all this information because I can't give you these three. Recognize that there might always be some kind of outside guest. Having just a box with any other notes, kind of a catch all is really going to be useful in case it is an outside the norm guest. But they might have something interesting to say right now when I reach out, I do have a packet. I've got my interview kit. Here are the different angles. I have angles by topic, angles by audience type. Here are questions for each of the angles. I always say, this is optional. I'm just giving you background. You can use it or not. I've had a few people where they would just read off one question after another and it wasn't that conversation. It was just, okay, let's talk about this, let's talk about that. Even if they didn't say, okay, question three even said, oh, you know what I was thinking about turns out to be question three. It still didn't have a great flow. It felt very point, point, point. I think having that conversational flow makes the podcast just so much more engaging.

I agree. I recommend to my podcasters that they don't formulate in the terms of a question that they use a bullet point system. So that is like, if I want to ask you about, like, I've got notes over here and I might be. I ask them about, like, I've got a note that I'm going to ask you about MIT in a minute. And so like I've got a little note over here on the side to that, but I don't have it formulated in a question. So it forces me to listen better to our conversation so that I can formulate that next question into a question format. And I think that at least preserves the conversation.

Yeah, I've noticed there's a range of prep as well. Now some people have said, just literally send me the questions ahead of time, which is not fun. Some have said, okay, we're just going to jump into it. And with experienced people, that can work. Many do A pre interview and in that range. And by the way, it's helpful to note ahead of time, will there be a pre interview or not? But there's a range of, okay, I just want to talk and figure out that chemistry between us versus really explore the topic. And I think the right balance that I found is we're going to talk, we're going to feel the chemistry, we're going to settle on what the topic is. And. But let's not get to those questions. I really don't want to dig into it because they want that spontaneity.

You don't want to ruin the fun part. Right. You don't want to ruin that sort of uniqueness. Because if I already know the answer, that's not fun.

Yeah. So you want. Okay, we're going to cover. Oh, we'll cover mit. We'll cover how you started getting on podcasts. But we weren't going to do what those answers are, and that makes it more spontaneous and real.

Yeah, well, you mentioned mit, so I'm going to ask that question right now. So I was thinking about the fact that there are MIT podcasts out there. There's MIT Press, there's MIT Student Life. Did you tap into your MIT community to help you get on shows?

Not as much as I probably should have. I did reach out to a couple MIT groups. I actually recently reached out to a new Sloan one I found out about, said, hey, put me on this. But some of the outreach, they said. When I reached out to Technology Review, our alumni magazine, they said, yeah, not really a fit. They put a little blurb in of, oh, Mark just released a book. That was it. I couldn't get an article there. But certainly when I get on podcasts, sometimes the way I get on is through my personal network, which sometimes through MIT and some elsewhere. And by the way, another great tip, at the end of every podcast, after you've turned off the recording, two really good questions the guest should ask, what other guests would be helpful for you on your show? Are there other people I know who would be helpful? And likewise, a podcaster should offer, hey, are there any other podcasts that you're looking at? Or here are some podcasts that might be a fit for you. Help each other. Assuming you like each other and had a good session. Help each other get more.

That's right. Absolutely. I love that. And you know what, that's a great serve too. So sometimes I'll do it in the follow up and not unnecessarily right there on the call, because Sometimes it feels weird in the moment. So we'll do it in a follow up. Say, hey, had a great time on your show. Is there anyone I can suggest for you? And so I'll do it that way in a LinkedIn follow up or an email, depending on how I contacted them originally. So that's a great suggestion. I love that, you know, you're full of essential skills for success, as the subtitle says, that no one taught you. And I love that. I love that subtitle. There's all this stuff about podcasting that no one has taught us. We've, you know, learned on the fly. I spend a lot of time teaching people, but beyond that, there isn't a real school here going on. Are there some essential skills that you think make certain podcasters better than others?

Well, I think networking, absolutely. What people forget in podcasting, people early to it think it is just turn on record, maybe do some editing. Everyone talks about, oh, your microphone and your editing. And those are important because if you don't do a good job, no one's going to want to listen. But even if you do a good job, it doesn't mean people will listen. In my world of technology, we know great marketing beats a great product every time. And so you have to know how to market, market, market. Now, having a good network helps. It helps get the word out. It helps get resources, gets good guests, gets good partnerships, gets good promotions. So use an extensive network, but also work with other people. So I mentioned about sending other guests or podcasters. One thing I happen to have. So I've been doing all this work finding shows. I know some other good authors. I said, you know what, if we're doing this work, let's do it together. So I've given them my list, right? I've said, look, you guys, take this list. It doesn't cost me anything to share it with you. And they were similar books. So my friend Jeff Wald, for example, he has another business book that came out before mine. I'm happy to put them on any show. Likewise, he's going to say, hey, Mark, here are some shows I've been on. Want me to get you on these shows?

You know, that's a great idea. You're like doing a little author pod. Like, you know, we talk about these Instagram pods, LinkedIn pods, where you're co promoting each other. You're doing an author pod. I love that.

And you can do that as podcasters as well. Just when someone finds a guest, make sure you share in that little group and help each other. If someone finds here's a good channel to promote, share and help each other, you're going to get a better lift per effort spent.

Love that. Okay, so you're about to hit 100 interviews. Done. What's next? Are you going to keep going? Are you changing your strategy up? Going to do a few less but adopt a different vetting model?

Maybe I'm going to keep going because I love it. I really enjoy podcasting, especially at this time. I have not been able to go out and do live events. So this is a good way to feel connected to the audience in general. Just talk to other people. As we've been stuck at home, I suspect I'll start doing some real in person events now that I've been vaccinated and we're going to start getting out and about.

Yeah, I'm starting to in a month.

Yeah, I'll probably add in a mix of marketing spend, but I see podcasting as essential to just keep going as long as people will keep having me on.

I love that now you've been on Clubhouse too. Well, you know, before I get into that, you know, do you think that there might be some diminishing returns though, if you're on too many?

I don't think that's the case. And if you think about again, the actors going on late night talk shows, do we say, oh, you know, you've already been on Kimmel and you've been on Colbert. Does it really make sense to go on Trevor Noah? Because let's face it, like Colbert and Trevor Noah, they really have a very similar audience. Right. So does it get redundant? Well, worst case, if someone says, I heard them already, you know, not going to listen to this. But what percentage of your audience is that? Probably pretty small.

When there's nothing on, you're gonna listen to it anyway. Right?

Especially you're already on the treadmill. You've got play going on. Okay. You'll just listen to it. Maybe it's a different angle. And that's one good thing about my book because I have 10 separate chapters. It's not. Here are my three points over and over.

Well, you know, that's something I so appreciate as I was skimming through some of the shows that you were on and taking a listen, there is that you're not a repetitive. There's a lot of authors I've had and they will come on and they'll be like, well, it's in my book. And that is not the way to get the people to buy your book. That is not the way to get them to go to your website. And that so generously sharing and telling deeper stories that maybe didn't quite make the book. Those are great ways. And touching on all different points. You just never know what's going to resonate.

That was something I thought about for all five seconds before going on. Am I going to give away too much? Are they not going to buy the book? Thought, you know what, there's value here and I'd rather offer it up. If you want to listen to all 100 episodes, you'll probably get 60, 70% of the book. If you're going to put in that time to save the money to buy the book, enjoy. Right? You're not the extra dollar I'm chasing there. And in fact, I created an app to do the same thing. And let's talk about the app for the moment.

Yeah, I want to hear about that with the book.

One thing I know as an instructor, okay, you learn something, you forget it. A few weeks later, you read in the. You learn in class. So I create an app where I put. If you took a highlighter, a highlighter to the book, and here's a good quote, here's a good tip. It's all in the app. And then what happens? It's in your pocket. Now, this does two things each day. It pops up like a daily affirmation. So it helps reinforce what you've read. And again, someone might say, I'm going to just download the app then and not buy the book. And that's what you want to do. That's fine.

We got the Cliff Notes download.

You can open it up. It's like, oh, I've got a negotiation coming up, so let me just get the negotiation tips and do that crash course. And so what I'm doing is taking the content, and I am taking it from out of the pages that's printed on and making it available when and where people want it. Now, podcasters aren't that different from authors. We are creating content. You have show notes, right? Here's the key points. Here are the takeaways. But they're still only getting that, perhaps in the podcast app or on the website, and they have to go searching for making that available in other formats. This is the future of content. It's taking our content nonlinear and making it available when and where people will want it.

Mark, you've just done such a great job of going out there, blanketing and really thinking through the process on how you wanted to do it. And by doing it personally, from that marketer's perspective that you have, I think you've really dialed it in to make it so much more effective for you than other people have found. So let's talk Clubhouse, because that's kind of a new thing. You were out there exploring. That's how we bumped into each other. Your name is Hershey on there, which caught my eye. And we brought you up in a group. And the next thing you know, I'm inviting you to be on my show. And you're not even actually the normal guest that I have on here because you're not a podcaster yet. You might be in the future. I think that might be in your future there. And so, you know, how have you been finding Clubhouse? What do you think of it?

I think it's the current shiny object. I've been through, I think seven different social networks going way back to 6 degrees in the mid-90s. So I've seen these come and go. This is a current one. A few thoughts. I think they're about to hit some headwinds because as we all go outside, we're not going to want to be online at all. They've had some tailwinds from the pandemic. They're going to hit some headwinds now. They certainly need to change the discovery method because as more people get on, the search isn't great. They know they need some functionality changes like the side channel chat. I think there's still opportunity. You get that serendipity. You get, ooh, we're in a room together. And especially, ooh, I'm in a room with a celebrity that people seem to like. And so it gives that personal connection. The downside, everyone on Clubhouse has something to sell. And look, it's true for you and I, right? Everyone's an expert in. I'll help you reorganize your closets and change your life. I'll help you revitalize your personal errands. Everyone has something, everyone's there selling. And that's a little tiring at times. I'm normally an egalitarian person. I don't like elitist groups, but there are a few I've joined where having that level of gatekeeping means the signal to noise ratio is really high. I know the other people here are very qualified. On Clubhouse, you meet someone claiming to.

Be an expert, you have no idea. Yeah, exactly. Well, you know, I agree. I'm always a fan of trying something, so I'm always out there trying to research it. That's kind of what we're doing, we're experimenting on Clubhouse, see what works. Then the next week we'll shift it and try it again. And so that's what you're popping in and checking out is what's working and what's not. And I'm always looking at a place where we can do something that's of great service because I cannot reach as many people, I cannot interview them on my show. So if I can reach 10 of them at once, then I want to do that and help them move forward. And so that's always what we're looking for. But, you know, and I think that's the same thing for whether you're an author and you have all this data knowledge, like you've got stuff no one taught you, right? You want to get that out there. So, you know, what is it that you hope is going on by doing all of these podcasts, by selling the book? What is your ultimate goal with where you want to move the reader?

I want to help them with their professional efficacy. As I say at the start of the book, I have seen people struggle to get that promotion, get stuck in a job they don't like, have some long term goal they just don't know how to achieve. And they've got some raw sets of skills. They might be really good in their discipline, but they don't understand the corporate politics in which they work. They don't know how to network, they don't know how to negotiate for that raise. And they get stuck and it's wasted potential for themselves, the company and society in general. And I want to help people reach. This is going to sound like one of those people on Clubhouse selling. I want to help people reach their maximum potential. I want people to feel I got the most out of my career.

Well, you know, I think you couldn't do better with a career toolkit. I love that idea of the title there because I mean, a toolkit, it's giving you the tools that we're missing, the things that we weren't taught. And you know, some of us just are better at it than others. Like obviously as you've gone about this and I've been listening to how you went about your methodical about and focused in your goal for guesting and in how you went about finding all the podcasts and doing all that, that's a sign of who you are. I don't think you just learned that from someone said, oh, here's how you do it. I mean, I'm sure Dori gave you some indicators and you added all of the details of what you bring to the table and learn. Work in marketing again and again and again over the years. Right. So, you know, but there's so many people who just don't have that access to the information.

I'll share. When I came to writing a book, I had not done that either. And so I read about 1500 articles on every aspect of publishing to learn, you know, what do I want to self publish? Do I go through a publishing company? If I do each, what do I have to know? What are the questions? I actually put some of those up the Cognosco Media website, that's the publisher to share with other people. Because, like, you. Right. Reaching as many people as possible to help them. But you're right, I'm methodical in what I do. I really want to understand it and learn it and then share with others.

Well, yeah, I love that, Mark. I feel like we really have a great mind share here because I feel the same way. I'm a big researcher and I research all these things, and then I'm like, this sounds like it fits with what I've learned over the years. That is effective. Let's bring this piece in. Let's leave this piece over to the side. So you've really done some things right. And, you know, if I can add anything to your process of guesting by sharing, sharing this show with others, and, you know, make it so that the next podcast you reach out to has a better process and is also anxious to have you on the show, then yay, we did our job here, both of us.

Absolutely. I'll add one last. Here's an important tip. Audio or video? So many podcasts now are doing video. I hear them say we get the most views on YouTube. And when I started out, I bought my mic. Okay, ready for podcasts. I have my mic, I have my headset, and I started seeing, oh, we're gonna record this on Zoom. We're gonna do video recording. I said, oh, my God, I don't have lighting. I didn't even have a backdrop. If you look at some of the early ones, there's just a picture behind me because this is my dining area. I said, all right, I gotta get the credibility bookcase here. But knowing ahead of time, is it going to be video or audio? Because if it's video, you gotta get lighting. Women wanna do their makeup. If not, you go, great. I'll be in a T shirt with my headset, and we're good to go.

I need to be prepped for video Right. Y note from our show. We put that right into the prep email so that you're aware this is video, too. And, you know, we have had people who show up in their T shirts, and, you know, it still works. I have to say, at the end of the day, it still works. But I appreciate your wonderful backdrop. And the two of us have, like, the bookcase thing going on here. In fact, I think one of the things over your shoulder that you have a kaleidoscope. I have had. I received it as a wedding present, and I have that same one on my shelf, too, so definitely. Well, and I think everyone should check out the video, which is going to be in the blog post for this episode@thebingefactor.com because also, the positioning of his book over his shoulder is really important for you to see. So if you're thinking about what your setup should look like, the simplicity of what Mark has going on here, but the lines that are moving through are perfectly placed, and the book is placed really nicely over his shoulders so that it's a focal point. So I'm looking at his eyes, and then I see the book in the background, and I'm looking at his mouth move, and I can see the book in the background. So it's perfectly placed. And so you guys might want to check that out and model that as well. Mark, thank you so much for coming on the show. Yeah.

The secret is the entire bookcase is just for that is just to position the book right there.

You're not touching and using the bookcase, Right? That's right. That's such a great trick. Well, Mark, I'm so glad I had you on the show. I'm so glad we could get this perspective from a guest viewpoint and bring that to our show today. And I appreciate you coming on. And I have just thought of a couple of people who I am absolutely gonna have to buy the book for, who are in career positions right now looking to move forward. So that's another thing right there. Even if your audience isn't the right fit, sometimes they know people who are, and they want to pay it forward.

And that's the secret of networking.

That's right. Thanks again, Mark.

Thanks for having me on.

Mark had so many great insights. I mean, so many essential skills that we need to work on as podcast hosts. You know, there's just so much prep and other things that we get lost into our own thing that sometimes we forget that we also have to prep other people. I just recently did a coaching call where we talked about the prep forms that I have and what it looks like and it's sort of, I set the tone right after we go ahead and do the booking so that they're sort of getting primed for the fact that I want them to share us, to connect with us on social. And I've started getting them excited about it. And it's my confirmation page, that's what we call it. And I'll put a link here to that so you can take a look at what that looks like. But that, you know, he's got even deeper prep. So you're going to want to go to the blog post for this episode@thebingefactor.com and really check out those downloads. He's got a whole, I mean, it's like three, four pages long of interview questions, topics, and it's really set up in a really nice way that you could pick and choose anything. And now of course, he's gotten to add to it over time because he's done 99 of these so far, so. And of course we didn't even prep with that at all. I went into my own questions because I wanted it from a totally different perspective than what he normally talks on. But you heard very clearly in this episode that he worked in his book. He worked in points about him. I helped him do that, but he did it as well. And that is the mark of a really great interviewer, a really great interview, I should say a great interview guest where they're able to work their things in it and it doesn't sound like a plug, it doesn't sound like a soundbite that he said again and again. He certainly is not bored saying it. And he comes back and brings that back into some of the lessons in his book and some of those things. And so by the end of it, I realized I've got to buy this book for someone. My niece is graduating. This is a great book for me to buy her thinking about those things that it plants that idea in your head because he did such a good job of making us like him, of sharing with us and giving us great lessons and letting us know there's a lot more where that comes from and that makes you want to just go check it out. And you can see why his book is getting downloaded. You can see why that best selling status keeps moving up every time a podcast episode airs, especially if it's a right fit. And Mark's done so many things that are right about this that kudos to him. He's just really done it well. And I think I get it. We're all busy and we want to be able to hire someone to do this for us. But sometimes the most effective thing is to pick and vet a list ourselves to be able to really come up with the right fit shows for us, the things that we think we would be really great on. And hey, then consult an expert and see what they say. What suggestions, what holes am I not thinking of? Where might I benefit? You might not have thought that being on an early show, a show where it doesn't even have a lot of episodes, they're just launching, actually can do you a lot of good. Most people are like, yeah, I'll wait till it launches and then I'll see how good it is. But the reality is if you want to just take the risk, what it's an hour of your time and take the risk on a show that's launching, you might get into their promotional push and actually be a more downloaded and listened to episode. Even if that it never goes further than those first few episodes. So there can be a great benefit to you to have that as well. So just thinking about those things, there's so many great, essential skills that he's given us here and I so appreciate that. I bumped into Mark on Clubhouse and so you're going to want to go to the blog post for the episode so you can connect up to find the book, the career toolkit to be able to get the downloads of what his prep is so you can model that for yourself as well. So Mark Hirshberg, just such a fabulous podcast guest. If you want him on your show, don't forget to connect up with him and reach out to him and I'll have his LinkedIn link so that you can go straight and DM him over there and be able to connect up and invite him on your show. So thanks again for listening to a Binge Factor episode that was kind of different than our normal one. Hope you got a lot out of it. If you'd like to hear more episodes like this or other topic areas that you'd like me to cover or like me to find a great guest for, that's maybe not just a podcast host. I'm always happy to do that. So you just message me anywhere on social media, but especially LinkedIn because that's where I spend most of my time. So if you'd like to private message me there, you can definitely connect straight up with me and you won't get my team. So looking forward to hearing from you and looking forward to hearing what you're looking for and what you enjoy about the Binge Factor. So thanks everyone, for listening. I'm Tracy Hazzard, and I'll be back next week with another episode of the Binge Factor.

You've been listening to the Binge Factor Podcast. For more information on podcasting and videocasting success tips and tactics, please go to thebingefactor.com and be sure to listen to our other show for podcasters called Feed you'd brand. If you'd like to be interviewed on this show as well as featured in Tracy's column, please go to thebingefactor.com guest and apply.

Sam.