The Importance Of Finding The Voice For Your Brand In Growing Your Podcast with Jodi Krangle of the Audio Branding Podcast

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Hey, everyone. Welcome to the Binge Factor. I'm Tracy Hazzard and I have Jodi Kringle Today, Audio Branding. And I have been playing around in podmatch, one of my favorite apps, my favorite new apps, and of course, a great new partnership that AlexandFilipp I have developed. And I just am really fascinated with how it works. And I found some really great people and Jodi is one of them. She's got the audio branding podcast and it's just absolutely fascinating and I really love the way she's approaching podcasting and everything about it. So let me tell you a little bit more about Jodi before we get into Audio Branding, the Hidden Gem of Marketing, which I love that title as well. Jodi's been a voice actor since 2007, has worked with clients from major brands all over the world, including Dell, BBVA and Craft. She's also a singer, has put her own album together of jazz, blues, and traditional tunes over the years. And doing what she does, she's learned a lot about sound and how it influences people. Her podcast on the subjects is called Audio the Hidden Gem of Marketing. And you can learn more about her at her website where she talks about voiceovers and vocals and all things that just services that Jodi provides. So we'll have the links for that, of course, in the blog post for this episode, let's take a deep dive and talk about the art and science of audio branding.

Jodi, I'm so glad to geek out with you and talk sonic branding. I love that that that's in the description of your show. Audio branding is the name of the show, of course, but sonic branding like that just makes it sound so much cooler, what we're doing. I mean, podcasting sounds awful compared to that.

Well, it's all part and parcel of having a good sound strategy for a company. So, yeah, podcasting is definitely a part of that, right? Exactly.

Well, you've got so much going on and I love the art and science of sound that that's your focus. Because you know what, there is a Lot of art to this. I mean, look, we've been building a brand new microphone and I cannot believe how much science and technology is in that.

Oh, yeah, I can only imagine.

Yeah. And so, you know, we actually accidentally hit on some things that we didn't know. Like, I didn't understand this about sound engineering that I've discovered through the process of developing microphone, and I thought, how did I not know these things? Like, you go through this and you're like, I'm using microphones every single day and I still don't know that well.

I mean, we're hearing every single day and we don't pay enough attention to sound even if we're hearing it. It's all very subconscious. So, yeah, it's one of those things that is a part of our life and so much a part of our life, and yet we pay so little attention to it, really, when it comes right down to it.

Right. But, you know, you really hit on the thing that's most powerful is that that power of being in someone's ear has such lasting value. And I love that about podcasting. It's been the thing that's attracted me from the beginning. But, you know, you started your first podcast, your first episode, at the beginning of January 2020, like before the pandemic. So you had no idea that was coming?

Yeah, it was actually November 2019.

Oh, was it November 2019? Okay, good. Yeah, I think I saw your trailer episode and just assumed it was 2019. That may be when you developed that.

That's when I did the trailer.

Do the trailer later. That happens all the time. So, yeah, you just got it started and you already had this, you know, a little bit of powerful build before everything shut down around you. So how did that feel for you? Was, were you so glad you started your podcast?

Well, I was glad that I had begun the idea of it because then no one could say, oh, you just started it because of the pandemic. Well, no, actually, yeah.

You're like, how to purpose. Yeah.

But, you know, beyond that, I actually already had a business where I was working from home in a sound booth. You know, I mean, it's here, all of the equipment was here. So for me, it was a no brainer. But it actually did take me a while to get to the point of, oh, okay, fine, I have to do a podcast. I was trying to do everything else, and I was part of a business mastermind. And when I was in that business mastermind, all of them were starting podcasts and it was like, well, why why would I want to do that? Why? Well, why would I want to do that? Was my first question. Because it's a lot of work, as you well know.

I have a few.

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, it took me a while because I started off on the wrong track. I started with a previous podcast that was just sort of like a conventional wisdom kind of podcast. And it really tells you how much people think of you as an expert when you do a podcast. Because I did that podcast for 30 episodes, and they were short. Like, you know, there wasn't really much to them, and people were asking me to be a life coach.

You find out what they want from you quickly, don't you?

I guess. Yeah. But it was the most ridiculous thing. I thought so. Okay. I may as well have a podcast that I actually have a passion for as opposed to just trying it out. And that I'm glad that I tried it out, because I learned a lot in that first outing. But I really wanted to pick something that was a passion, and sound is definitely a passion. So, you know, the power of sound and where my voiceovers fit into that audio branding spectrum. Also the idea that sound is important and that not a lot of people are paying it the due it deserves.

I agree.

Yeah. So raising all boats for my colleagues was definitely on my mind, and raising all boats for anyone who works in sound, because unfortunately, as we've just said, in a lot of cases, it's kind of the last thing people think about.

Yeah. They start the podcast and then they're like, oh, wait, I gotta think about the sound of my show. Or I listen to it and then you go, oh, that's not good. Right. I better learn this part of it. So, you know, it's so interesting because you start from that perspective. So what was the show called when you first started it?

The previous one was just called Jody's Silver Linings. And it was basically just a little bit of good news. It was a little bit of, you know, you don't have to be productive every second of the day. And if you're at an outing, you don't need to be taking pictures every five seconds. You could just experience the moment. You know, these kinds of little things that I think we just like common wisdom, you know, just like regular stuff. Just because I'm a little older and maybe I've been around the block a few times, I don't know, learn how to pay attention to what's going on around me.

So did you completely start over from scratch and get rid of all of Those episodes and then rebrand, or did you start out like a completely new podcast?

I started a completely new podcast. So Jodi's Silver Linings is still out there. And it has a completely different cover art and all of that stuff. And those 30 episodes are still out there. You can still see them if you want or listen to them if you want to. But yeah, I did a complete rebrand and went in a very different direction. And I do both interviews and solo podcasts. And the solo podcasts are like five to seven minutes long. They're not long at all. Basically, I write an essay and speak it.

Right, exactly. So I've heard some of those because I've listened to your episodes and your interviews are done in two parts. How is that working for you? Do you find that that's better to split them into two parts?

I like that a lot. I think that people want to tune in for the second part of it. First of all, like, if you really like someone that I'm interviewing, you'll want to hear their second part. And I like to keep these at about 30 minutes, as we kind of discussed earlier before starting this, because I think that people have a limited amount of time and a limited amount of attention that they can pay to something these days especially. And I like to just do it in sort of bite sized chunks. So not only is it better for people's attention spans, but I think it's also better for me because it gives me more of a buffer zone. So if I have one person doing an interview, I have two episodes out of that, which means, as the podcaster, it gives me a little bit more wiggle room. So, you know, I get two weeks out of that one interview instead of just one. And that makes my job easier and easier to schedule and less pressure on me to constantly be after new guests every, you know, week or week and a half. Like, I can let it sit a little bit. I can be picky about who I take on the show, you know, because it's pretty specific.

What I really want is that you need to listen to the way that Jodi does this because she's floating from one episode to the next. Just that it actually has a really nice break to it. She's planned it. She knows where the part is going to happen, where the second half is going to go.

Yeah.

And it's not really just watching the clock that that's happening for you. It's like you figure out where that natural break is and then you're going to share it to the next episode. And that makes a big difference because a lot of people just are like, oh, it's too long. Let me cut it in half. And they didn't actually plan it ahead of time. And that's where yours is very different. And I think it flows because I'm left off in a place where I go, I gotta listen to the second half, find out what happens next. Right. So that's, I think, a real driver as well. Like, you plan that well.

Yeah, I have a lot of help, actually. My audio editor is a fellow named Umberto Franco, who is in Portugal and Colombia. I think he goes between two places and he's really, really talented. So he helps me with the final editing of all of the episodes, except for the solo episodes. Those I do myself just because, I mean, it's what I do, you know, like, that's easy enough, right?

You can do them in one take. You're good at.

It's not one take, believe me.

But, you know, the thing with that is making it, like, sound conversational, you know, like, I'm having a conversation with your ear. I'm talking into your ear. That's kind of the idea.

I think that's so really important because you said you write an essay to do those. And I actually discourage my clients from doing that because they're not pros like you are, and they don't understand that that's what's going to happen. And so when they read it, it lacks energy, but yours do not. And I think that' you are comfortable in this media type and this is what you have to do if you're going to record a commercial or a voiceover intro, you got to bring the energy to it. And so you hear the difference in your own voice and you're like, oh, that wasn't as good as it should be. Let me do it again. And that makes a huge difference right there, that you know what you're doing. It's not something everyone should do.

No, no. And I mean, that's just what I'm comfortable with. I would never say that that's the way that everyone should do it. It's just that I'm comfortable with it. I've had coaching at this. Like, this is. This is what I make my living at. So you're. In that sense. Yeah. I mean, I know how to read a script while allowing people to get into the mindset of, yes, I actually do care about what I'm talking about. That's the point, really. It's the connection. It's letting people know that you do care about what you're speaking.

Well, and I think you just hit on something right there. You said writing a script, which is different than writing what you're going to say or writing an essay is very different than writing a script. And most of us are not comfortable. Like the way that we write is actually not the way we say speak. And so it doesn't have that conversationalness that you were talking about before. We just lack that.

Yeah. And I mean, it depends on what you're talking about really. But I think people tune in to hear your personality. So, yeah, even if that script, at that moment, you want to say something different.

Sure.

Off the cuff, go for it. You know, like I do that all the time in the scripts that I read. So, yeah, it should feel comfortable and it should feel like you care about what you're saying.

So are you seeing a difference in sort of the numbers between the episodes, the two parter interviews and things like that, and these shorter episodes that are your solos?

You know, it's a toss up. I've always kind of wondered how that was gonna go. But, you know, it depends because if the person I interviewed really promotes it heavily on their end, then yeah, it gets a lot of listeners. And people will spend five minutes to listen to my voice speaking, some kind of an essay or something I wanted to get off my chest, you know.

Like advice, whatever, you know.

Yeah, some people really like that. And it's easier to sit down, I think, for the five minutes than it is for the 30 minutes. But, you know, it depends on why people are listening for podcasts and everyone listens for different reasons. So do you want it to be a five minute break in between something else? Are you doing it while you're folding laundry or while you're commuting or while you're walking around the neighborhood or, you know, when are you doing it and why are you doing it? And every one of those reasons and activities are going to be different. The only thing that is the same is that we are rarely actually just concentrating on listening to that podcast.

Right, exactly.

That happens all the time. We're always multitasking when we're doing audio. I don't know why that is.

It is one of the great things about audio and especially podcasts and, you know, definitely things like audiobooks and that kind of thing. People are listening to them while they're doing other things. And that's the great thing about audio, that it can sort of fit into the little spaces of your life instead of you having to Contort your life to get it to fit into yours.

You know, you just said that. And that is finally the answer that I was looking for. People have asked me so often why I don't do audible books. I read about 300 books a year, like, I read a lot of books why I don't do audible. And I think it is because. Because for me, the purpose of audio is when I'm doing audio in general, I'm multitasking, I'm doing multiple things. But the purpose of reading is for me to lose myself and to not do anything else. And so for whatever reason, unable to do that in the audio media type. So it just doesn't do what I need it to do to listen to the book.

You know, you and I are very similar that way. I can't listen to audiobooks either. I can't, because like you, I just want to read it and be transparent, transported. I don't want to have anything else intrude.

Right. And I'm so used to the audio media type for me to be doing multiple things at that time. And it is that passive listening. And I don't want that with the book. So that's so interesting. You finally gave me the answer because we've asked me that and I was like, I don't know how to answer that. I don't know why I don't do that.

Well, now we both have an answer. Yes, there we go.

I love that. Well, before we get into a lot of nitty gritty questions, which I want to get to, I want to do your binge factor right now because what I really think is so interesting about your show and so different about it and what makes it really, truly bingeable is that audio branding is really headed into the questions that we don't always ask about how things are working, why they're working, why the sound is so powerful, why audio branding is a critical factor in today's marketing world. We're not asking ourselves these questions in the way that you've formatted it here. We want to know this and we're aware that something's going on, but we haven't done that deep dive into the science and the art. And I love that that's what you're doing. You're really hitting onto a very unique aspect of audio that we just haven't looked at in the way that you're examining it. So kudos to you for bringing on a great subject and being the pro person who can ask the right questions that I would sit on my other end and go, yeah, that's the question. Because you're so deeply in the know. So that's what makes, I think, audio branding is such a great show.

Thank you so much. I appreciate that. And yeah, I do try to do the best I can to be the person in the audience asking that question. I know what I would want to know, and I am certainly not an expert in this. What I think of myself as is a fellow traveler, and I want to understand more about what I'm contributing to. So for me, it's more asking the questions that I think my audience would want to know the answers to. And these are the experts that I'm asking the questions of. And some of them are, like, outstanding in their field and have blown my mind on multiple occasions.

I just sent a couple of your episodes and the show as an example to my certified strategists, who I think are pretty big pros in the podcasting industry. And I was like, this is a show you guys all need to listen to, because I know you're all complaining about the sound that's going on, and here's some whys and some great experts, and so that's rare that I have a show that I can recommend like that to other pros. And so you really hit on something. So good for you. So let's talk about the things that maybe daunted you when you first started your show. You know, you said you started kind of the wrong kind of show for what you really wanted out of it. And that was a great aha. That you. You made that shift and you decided to go, you know, clean slate, let me start a whole new show now that I know. But what was really the hardest part about starting up a podcast? I mean, you got the sound part down, but what about the rest of it?

You know, there are a couple of things, and one of them was the interviewing that something that I had to learn along the way and get better at, and I'm still learning along the way. And the active listening part of that is harder than people think because it's so easy to just go to your next question. I do have a list of questions. When I'm going into an interview with someone, I know approximately what we're going to talk about. And we have sort of had a pre chat beforehand. I always do a pre chat, and I want to make sure that we know what we're going to talk about beforehand. And because it's such an interesting and sometimes difficult to explain concept to some people, I want to make sure. That we know what we're going to be zeroing in on. And when we get into the actual interview, I do have that list of questions that we discussed between the two of us. So we both know what's coming in a way. It's still been two weeks or something since we spoke. So all of this is comfortable, but not by rote, if that makes any sense.

Right? No, absolutely. You don't want it to be like, well, we already covered this so it doesn't feel new to you.

Yeah, yeah. But the idea that if they answer a question and they go into something that I want to go more in depth with, I can't just go to the next question. I have to ask them about it. Right. So. So knowing when to do that and knowing when it would just delay things too much or if they really wouldn't be able to explain it in a way that I think my audience would be interested in, you know, there's all sorts of ways that you need to judge momentarily, like in the moment, whether or not something is gonna work. And active listening is a big part of that. So knowing when they've said something that I really want them to expand on and not letting them get away with just moving over it.

Yeah, let's go on. I love that, you know, and I think though, that what it really has done, like, and you may not realize this yet, but I think it's gonna be coming your way is that by mastering this interviewing skill because you already had such great voiceover skills, sort of command. And that side of things is that it makes you the opportunity for moderation. So like doing moderating panels, doing that kind of emceeing things that you could add to your repertoire of things that you already do, but really expand. That is why this can become really valuable for a podcaster.

Oh, definitely. And I'm already doing it in clubhouse. I have a clubhouse room every week, Wednesdays and Thursdays at 2pm Eastern.

Yeah, the Power of Sound Club. I love that. That's a great name.

We talk about all things sound and I have all sorts of people who join me there. So we do talk about audio branding, definitely. But we talk about music, we talk about healthcare and how audio affects our. We talk about audio NFTs and voice AI and voiceovers and storytelling and public speaking and all of these things that have to do with sound. And it's a really fascinating and kind of never ending subject.

When you're doing the Clubhouse, how's that working for you? You know, are you getting a lot of people to come in. Are they really staying? Because it was doing really well for a while. And then I saw a kind of a drop off in. In the number of people who were joining. And then my second part of that question is, are you capturing any of this and using it?

Yeah, actually I am. There's one clubhouse that's already available in my playbacks on the podcast. And I have another one that I recorded with a bunch of professors and doctors at universities and colleges and various other healthcare locations where they've been studying the effects of the beeps in hospitals.

Oh, I so wanna hear that episode. Yeah.

So that. Yeah, and that was really interesting because, like, on the panel had some kind of like, letter after their name. Like it was, you know, just. And me sitting here asking them questions, I felt completely out of my depth. But, you know, they said some really interesting things and they're doing a lot of really good work with the studies. And I think it's really important that people understand that those beeps in hospitals are detrimental to our health. We need to find a way to have different sounds.

Oh, so important. The absence of sound is problematic too. So personally, the absence of sound with all the electric vehicles really concerns me as a parent.

Yeah, it can be really interesting aspect of the world around us because there are a lot of things that we have in our lives. Like our phones that take a picture and have a click, but don't really need to do that click. Cause there's no shutter. Like, it's not really a shutter kind of mechanism. There's all sorts of things. Like, for instance, we think that a leaf blower is not working properly unless it's super loud. It could work just fine without being that loud.

They're about to stop that here in California. So we are supposed to have no sound. Quieter leaf blowers come. I think it's one more year and then we're gonna have that. So we'll see how that happens. Yeah, yeah.

But the same with vacuum cleaners, you know, like, if they're not loud, we don't think they're doing their job.

So. Right.

Same with cars. Right. We kind of wonder.

I know I have one of those really loud ones myself, but. Yeah. So interesting. So these are the kinds of things you're diving in on your clubhouse. Are you finding people attracted to the room? Is it hard to market that?

You know, it's less hard than I thought it was going to be. And there are some people who show up on a regular basis, so I do have regulars in the room. It's usually anywhere from, I don't know, I mean, it's probably around 40 people or so in a room.

Wow, that's a big room in Clubhouse right now.

Yeah, it's not horribly small and it's not horribly large. And I actually really like that kind of a room dynamic because it means that there's enough people in the audience that you feel like you're talking to somebody and that anyone could raise their hand at any moment. But there's enough people on the stage that are actually speaking and asking questions and talking amongst the themselves that there's a dynamic there. And also there's a room chat. So even if someone's too shy to come up on stage, they can be in the room chat, having a discussion with the other people in the room. And it's kind of a multi dimensional thing right now.

Yeah, see, Clubhouse has really come into a sort of a different realm. And so I think people who maybe stopped listening a while ago or stopped coming in really need to come back and check it out again. And so, hey, join Jody's room because it's obviously got something thriving and going on there and podcasters can have something to gain from joining it. So check it out.

I do actually have weekly chats. Actually once a month, usually there's a podcasting discussion. And the Thursday room is about voices in podcasting. So it's voiceovers and voiceovers who have podcasts and people who want to talk about either or. So, yeah, there's definitely podcasting available there.

Well, let's talk about that really quick because you have great experience in voiceovers. I'm wondering what your recommendation is. So we get this question all the time, which is, should you have a male or a female voice and your voiceover, if you're a male or a female podcaster, like, should you do the opposite? What do you recommend?

You know, I think it depends on what your podcast is and who you are. So if you have a personal brand where you need to do your own intro and outro, do it and don't feel guilty about it. Just that's your brand and you get to do that and that's who people are tuning in to listen to. So there's nothing wrong with that. And if you are a branded business podcast, I would say a professional intro outro is a must. And that is really just making you sound professional. And in a lot of ways it's like it's easier for someone to say good things about you rather than you to say good things about you.

Right? That sort of transfer of authority. That's what we call it here. And so you have that. It's like why you wouldn't introduce yourself on stage. So maybe that's not right for your podcast. Is that. That's the mode of your podcast, like what it's for?

Yeah.

So what about that male, female voice thing?

I think it's nice to have a contrast. But it could be a contrast in two female or two male voices, too. I mean, I don't think it's necessarily male female.

Yeah, I think it's good that contrast makes sense.

Yeah.

Because they're not sure that if it's you or not, that gets confusing, right?

Yeah, definitely. You don't want someone to think that it was you, but they're not sure.

Yeah, exactly. That just doesn't make sense. Let's make it one or the other. Right? Yeah. So you have that. This fabulous video highlights on your page, and I'm going to share that in the blog post for this episode so everyone can check it out. I love your video. I think it's a great highlight of it. I love that particularly you're mentioning episodes and featuring episodes within that video. Highlight. It's like a two, three minute. It's not very long.

Yeah. The big one. Oh, yeah, it's about three minutes. It's a trailer for my hundredth episode, actually.

Yeah. And it's an excellent overview and I love that it is that kind of overview of the past 100. And you've just highlighted a few because it really drives me into one wanting to join your show and to really subscribe. So that's a really excellent idea and I'm so glad you did that. Was it difficult to create?

I didn't create it. There's a company called Podcasts Abbreviated, and they do really, really good work. So I do highly recommend them.

They created that highlight reel. I love it.

They created a highlight reel. Exactly. Yeah. And they put all of the graphics in there and they pretty much. They almost decided which ones they thought would be the best to highlight. And I thought that was a really good touch as well, because I'm really close to it.

What you think is and what listeners think might not be the same thing, Right? Exactly.

So I thought I wanted someone who is a little outside of it to sort of go and say, here are the ones I think really hit me hard. And I'm all for that.

That's.

It was super helpful. So they did a really good job.

So let's talk about audio branding and marketing Mix, because that this video is a form of marketing. Right? You're going to be out there pushing the hundredth episode and giving visibility to your podcast as a whole. So let's talk about what's working and what's not there. So we're going to hit our three questions right now. How do you get great guests? Because you found some unusual guests, I have to say.

Yeah, you know, I am on podmatch, which is how we found each other. So that is a really good directory to be a part of. There's a few of them, and podmatch is one of several, I think. Also LinkedIn is a really good resource for me, and in particular for me, because there's a lot of audio branding, specific companies who are on LinkedIn and who are posting all about what they're doing. And it's fascinating stuff. And I'm following as many of them as I can find. So as I get to know them, I invite them on the show and we get to know each other better, which I think is just invaluable. It's fantastic. The very first person, though, that I had on the podcast who was pretty well known in this space was a guy named Steve Keller, and that's actually episode number 18 and 19. And he actually came on my podcast because I'm voice actor at Pandora, so I do some of their ads, and it's Sirius XM now is the whole deal. But I knew several of the people over there, and when I told them what I was doing, they were like, hey, do you wanna have our guy on your show? I was like, yeah.

I'm like, yes, sign him up.

Yes, definitely. And he had done a TED Talk, and I had a look at the TED Talk, and I did an episode, an early episode, about his te, which was fascinating. And then we had our episodes, and he blew my mind. Every five minutes we talked.

That's so great. And I love that you recommend this in your intro episode. So you actually recommend. Which means that you recorded your intro episode after you had recorded episodes, which I totally recommend and love, because now you know what your show is gonna be like, so you can really excite people for it. So you do recommend this one, and it really drives people to look through the catalog of it to go find that.

Yeah, that is definitely one of my top episodes.

Good. Yeah, good, good, good. So they did a good job of sharing it, which is even more important, right?

Yeah, totally.

Wonderful. Well, how do you increase listeners? Like, that's, I think, the hardest part for podcasters in general in terms of Marketing it?

Oh, always, yeah.

So what do you do to increase listeners that you think is working?

You know, I post on social media a lot, and every Wednesday there's a new episode and I post there, so there's that. And I also do Weekly Clubhouse, as we were just talking about. So a lot of people find it from the clubhouse, strangely enough. And you can put a link at the top of your clubhouse room, and I put a link to the latest podcast, so that does help there as well. And I have a newsletter. It's very small right now, but people can sign up from the main website of the podcast. And I keep in touch with people, so every week I send out a new email letting them know what the new podcast is and what the new clubhouse is so they'll know what they can participate in and what they can listen to. And I'm just trying stuff, you know, see what works.

Yeah, you never know.

Yeah, there's no one method. There's no anything that I have seen rocket me to the top. You know, I'm trying to do a little advertising also, so you never know.

See what works. Right?

Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

This is kind of the eternal seeking part of podcasting, right?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, you do these podcasts, and then you put them out into the ether, and you never know who's listening.

I know it's like. It is the unfortunate part about podcasting, but it is also. It's magic.

That's true.

You know, that's. You got to look at it from both perspectives. So. Well, let's talk about monetization, and we don't have to talk about that. And, you know, you don't have to take the answer in straight, you know, ad monetization, that's. That's traditional. But in any kind of alternate way, do you feel like it's making. It has a return on investment for you?

For me, yeah, definitely. Because people hear my voice interviewing on the podcast, so, you know, if they're listening to the podcast, they're hearing me, and they might possibly want my voice for a voiceover job, which is great. But I think also the whole point of it isn't necessarily just to get me jobs. It's also to let everyone know how important the sound of their project is. So even if I'm not getting the job, a colleague of mine is because someone thought that they needed a voice actor.

So you're raising that tide like you were talking about earlier.

Exactly. Yeah. So that's really what I'm trying to achieve here. And it's not just for me. It's not just for voice actors, it's for musicians. It's for filmmakers. It's for, you know, people who do content creation. Anyone who's interested in elevating what they're putting out there with sound, because that really does elevate it.

I love that. Now, you do have segregations on your blogs, where you group them into, like, these are related to film and movies, and this is music and podcasting. And so you've really actually grouped your episodes and made it so easy for people to consume what they're most interested in. I think that's a really great use of blog categories.

Yeah. I come from old school. I've been on the Internet since 1995, so.

Me too.

So I've been doing this a while like you. And yeah, I do find that grouping things is a good way for people to understand and be able to get what they want quickly. And really, ultimately, you want people to have to do as little clicks as possible to get what they want, right?

Absolutely. You want them to find it, make it seamless, make it easy and frictionless for them.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, yeah. So what's next for your podcast? Where are you going from here? What are you going to try next?

I'm going into video.

So we're going to expand beyond audio. I love it.

Yeah, a little bit. I'm not going to do the whole podcast as a video. I'm not just going to show the video and put that out there. What I am going to do is I might make little. Instead of audiograms, I'm going to do videograms because in the beginning of every one of my episodes, I have a little snippet of audio that will give people an idea of what the rest of the episode is going to be about. And rather than have that as just an audio thing that I can do, which definitely will continue in the podcast, I'll use a video option and use that as the promotion on social media.

I love that idea for you.

Yeah, yeah. So instead of just using an audiogram with a static image, like, you know, from Headliner or something like that, like, we all do.

Well, yeah. But, you know, we're finding a significant decline. So we have over a thousand clients who are producing social media assets in some way, shape or form, and about 60% of them do video. And the ones that are doing video are doing better by having the actual clip versus the audiogram in social media. Right now, it's just social is because of TikTok, because of YouTube shorts. Because of all of these other parts of what's going on, video is getting more play. I don't think that it has beyond the short clip, the right kind of value for everyone. It's not getting more. How do I say this? The long tail videos are not necessarily getting long more plays or more playthrough. Podcasting is still getting more playthrough at the end of the day, but the short clips are doing well to promote that.

So what I'm hoping to do also is to put five minute clips or something like that of certain portions of the video into my YouTube channel so that the YouTube channel actually has some video as opposed to only static.

So do it in YouTube shorts. Yeah, do it in there as well. Because especially your little 30 seconds, which is kind of about the beginning of your teaser trailers, we find that just segregating them into YouTube shorts is getting more circulation. So. Because YouTube shorts is being promoted by YouTube. So yeah, put them there. So try that out. So you have this interesting find that you might want to interview someone who has had. She was a musician, she did a lot of music videos. So she had like what would be basically three minutes or less videos in her channel. Put her podcast into the same channel in its own little playlist, but put it in the same channel but found her monetization went way, way, way, way down because the long tail podcast wasn't getting full playthrough. Like the three minutes were getting full playthrough. And so it messes in the monetization model. So from her perspective of like splitting them up into two channels actually worked better. And that's what we ended up having to do for her to keep the monetization of the music separated from her podcast. So you might have musicians who are listening to you who might want that tip. So I'll let you interview her and then you can find out some more. So. But yeah, that's. It's such an interesting model of expanding from audio into video and we'll have to see how video branding does for you.

Yeah, just a little bit. I mean, it's still going to have the audio on it. I'm also working on updating the music for the podcast, so hopefully that'll be coming through by the end of this week.

Are you gonna have your own written?

Yeah, I've done that actually from the. Was it the hundredth episode? So up until the hundredth episode I was using a piece of music from a license free music directory, which I did really like. But you know, I'm talking about audio branding. So I need my own music. So, yes, I did actually pay someone to make me some music and I've been using that ever since. But I think at the 50th episode, I'm gonna switch to different music as well. And one of the fellows that I am interviewing or have interviewed, and his episode is coming up probably in another couple of weeks, I think something like that, a little more than that. His company is going to be doing the music for it. So we'll see how that goes.

Yeah. Nice. I love it. That's so great.

It's.

You know, we have a podcaster who has a peloton podcast called A Clip out and they had their music created and it just has the right tone for them. It's kind of amusing and I think it really fits them and it's not for everyone, but I really do think in your particular case makes such sense.

Oh, yeah, Yeah. I really think it's important to have your own musical style, your own someone who knows your podcast and can sort of write something that fits who your audience is and who you are.

So what advice do you have for us for getting better sound, for really thinking about our audio branding side as a podcaster?

Oh, it's a good question and a very big question.

Answer it however you see fit.

Yeah, I would say that when you're recording, make sure that you are fairly close to your mic so that you get less of the room tone around you. That can definitely help with whoever is editing if it's you or if someone else. If you are in an environment that has less hard surfaces. That's also a really good idea. And actually, here's one thing that I will mention. If you're interviewing someone, I have found that the best way to do that is using SquadCast or Riverside FM or something like that and making sure that everyone has headphones. That is so, so important. And turning off Echo Cancellation.

Ah.

So echo cancellation is that thing that if people are not wearing headphones, it's so that what's coming through the speakers doesn't also come through their mic into whatever recording you're making. And it sort of cuts off things and makes people unable to talk over each other and it muffles people sometimes. So your quality of audio from that recording is just going to be so much less than if you turn off Echo Cancellation and everyone has headphones. So that's really, really important if you're doing interviewing.

That's such an interesting tip that I haven't heard before, so thank you for sharing that with us. Yeah, it's wonderful. Well, audio branding, great, great show. Jodi Craigel, I am just astounded by the kind of art and science you have explored here, and I look forward to what's next and being a subscriber to your podcast. So I think this, this is the podcast for pro podcasters to take a listen to. So for those of you out there who are following me, because that's what you're trying to achieve is pro podcasting level, go check out Jodi's show. You've got to check it out and learn some more amazing new things about being better at audio branding.

I told you it was going to be a little geeky, a little fun. Art and science. I love that. I love that idea. And the power of Sound. I mean, Power of Sound Club is a great name for a clubhouse club, but I just really love Jodi's approach to everything. I love that she's really thinking about that power of sound, the effect of what we're saying has on people, the energy of how we say it, the scripts and how she uses them. There are so many interesting approaches and viewpoints that she has from her tremendous perspective and experience from the sound side of podcasting. And so often here we talk about the business side of podcasting. So I love that we were able to round that out and bring the two together here today with Jodi Kringle's podcast, Podcast Audio Branding, because we're really bringing those two things together here. So really, go check this out. This is a podcast for pros, as I mentioned before. So if you're a pro in the podcasting industry, if you're providing any podcast services, this is going to be a podcast you want to check out because it's going to help you up your game just like it's helping me up mine. And I love that this is happening again and again from these connections that I'm making throughout the industry. So keep making your own connections. Go check out podmatch, just like Jodi. And then that's exactly how Jodi and I met. So make sure you go check that out and make sure that you are listening and checking out other podcasters so that you can really up the success of your own show and not just listen to it through mine. Go actually listen for it yourself and hear what I'm hearing when I'm getting to research and check out these shows. So enjoy. Make sure you check out the blog post for this episode@thebingefactor.com so you can get directly connected to Jodi, Jodi Krangle and all things audio branding. Thanks everyone for listening. I can't wait to bring you more podcasters and learn myself about what's going on around the podcast industry and where success is happening. We'll be back next time with another Binge Factor.

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