The Pros and Cons of Radio Podcast and Brand Podcast

Get off the marketing roller coaster and get on the automated fast track to digitally market your brand everywhere. Now join podcast producer Tom Hazard and Inc. Columnist Tracy Hazard as they share easy content building formulas and smart cut secrets proven to fuel hundreds of blogs, podcasts and brands with bingeable original content. Join the conversation on how to get your message out to the world. Be original, be heard, Promote with power and purpose. Feed your brand.

Hey everybody. Tom and Tracy here from Feed you'd brand on the feed you'd brand Facebook page.

Oh my gosh, we're doing a Facebook Live.

Yay.

And it's not even like a gray hair day. Oh, I know.

And this is pretty tight corded here. I'm like all the time.

I know.

I don't.

I like my side of the, of the recording studio. So for those of you, you're in the recording studio, this is my side of the desk. And we've got the microphone. You can kind of see it a little bit. Us, you got a mic between us. And so we're trying this new thing because this topic, we didn't want you guys to wait a week or later in the week for this because we have gotten so many people in our Facebook feed talking about this and we didn't want to wait, so we wanted to get the info out to you right away. For those of you on Facebook, yeah.

We actually have a customer who came to us this week who has been podcasting for, gosh, what is it, 80 episodes or something as a radio show live at a certain time every week. And then it's been repurposed as a podcast.

And when we had another one in our feed who was considering going and applying to be a radio podcast host, and so we were like, oh my gosh, there's so many pitfalls and so many considerations and some things that you need to do smartly if you're going to go down that road. And there are pros and cons to it. So we want to talk a little bit about that today. But we really also want to make sure that you guys are signing the dotted line with the radio shows or the blog talk shows and doing and asking for the right things because it can make it harder later for you to get the full value out of it. And some people pay for their shows and some people, they're sort of paid to do it. In a way they get a reciprocal. I guess it would be like an affiliation for however many listeners they have. So there are different ways to go about it, but sometimes they have some pitfalls for you personally as a brand, and we really want to make sure you're aware of those things.

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with broadcasting your podcast live on the radio, if you're into it. I mean, there's some obvious pros and cons in that. If you're going to do it live as a radio show once a week or whatever your time interval is, the reality is you have to be available at that time to do it every single week. And your schedule, you know, has to be worked around that, and that can be very limiting. That's one of the things I like about podcasting in sort of the traditional way, not doing it live, is that you can do it whenever you want.

That's right. You can do whatever you want. But also, I think that, you know, there's that great appeal to radio because, well, it's broadcast. They provide the audience for you. There's no tech involved. Like, that's the one I get the most from people who are doing it. There's like, I don't have to do anything but call in or dial in or do whatever it is, Skype in, if that's the case of how it works. And so we were just making sure, you know that these things, that they are considerations for you, but it's time, and that's the big thing that we're here about at Feature Brand and what Tom and I have done in our businesses, if you're spending time recording these things, you're spending time doing them, then you need to get full value out of that time spent. And it goes further than the radio show. And that's really where we want to bring the attention to you, is that you may not be able to get full value from it if you haven't set some smart things in place. So let's talk a little bit about that. Let's talk about ownership.

Okay.

Who owns the content?

Right?

So in the case where you're a paid host, which happens in cases, and we'd have clients who do that, where you're a paid host for a radio station, you do not own the content. You don't own the rights to replay it. This happens a lot on the TV channel ones, too, like YouTube and where you're working in somebody else's YouTube station, so it can go TV, not just.

Radio, or you don't necessarily own the content. I mean, I think there is probably as many different agreements as there are hosts of radio shows. So maybe some of you do. But we found oftentimes some people think they have the rights to their content to use it in other ways. And they really don't. So that's yes, number one thing, you want to make sure you own the content so you can use it to your benefit.

Right. And sometimes there's limitations. So like in my ink column, I have a two week limitation, meaning that I can't repost the entirety of the article anywhere for two weeks. And then when I do it, I have requirements. I have to link back to the original article. I have to give Ink credit. Like there's a series of things that I have to do once I do that. But I do have rights to my content. My words that I wrote after two weeks from its original going live. So understanding what's in your contract or what's in whatever you sign in your agreement with the radio show or the blog talk show is really important for you to make sure that you've put in place for the beginning and read that fine print. And if you don't understand it, get someone who does and maybe talk to somebody else who's been on that station before. Right. So I mean, that's always helpful if you know one of the other hosts. So there is that. And so sometimes you have content usage limits. In other words, you can relink to the article, you can post a brief, but you're not allowed to put a transcription from the airing of the radio show.

You're not allowed to do that.

You're not allowed to take the audio and edit out the commercials and put it on your station or on your own website or in your own podcast. And so that's where it starts to, you know, maybe limit what you want to do with all of those materials and maybe in some cases be a waste of money because you can't repurpose it and you can't reuse it. So you don't want to send everyone to that radio station all the time.

I know it seems really easy, you know, that they're going to produce it. All you have to do is call in or log in or whatever and then they're going to take care of it. Okay, there's some truth to that. But recognize that you may be giving up things if you're going to do that. And it all seems great when everybody's happy, you're recording every week, the show's going out. It's, you know, when the separation happens, when you want to move on from the radio show, where things can get really dicey. And I want to make sure we talk about that.

We'll talk about that. But let's talk about a couple of the other things that considerations. So Tom mentioned before, timing, right? You have to be there. It's a specific hour that you have to do a lot of times with a lot of the shows that you pay for, you pay to have produced, right? If you don't show for your hour or you're gonna cancel the hour, you still pay for it. You pay for the minimum of four shows a month, no matter what happens. And so you're gonna still pay even if you take a vacation day. And so that becomes cumbersome for a lot of people, which definitely that does not fit my style or my schedule at all. Like, that's one of the reasons why when we thought and decided what we were gonna do, podcasting became the logical choice for us. Straight podcasting because it's time flexibility means we can record in one day everything for the month. And that's super easy for us. So that's a consideration. Let's talk audience transfer and then we'll talk about how you get the files and you do some of these things from a technical perspective. So audience, right. A lot of times the radio station, because they have such a broad range of shows, they may not actually have a broad enough audience for you. It sounds great that they have millions of listeners and isn't that fantastic? But if it's not millions of listeners interested in your particular topic, is that going to transfer into giving you more business and giving you the visibility you need and giving you more for the time spent? And that's one of my concerns always is like, is it the right audience? Especially if you're doing it on a true radio station and not a blog radio. So you're in a true radio stations that is broadcasting within a particular region. So do you do a lot of local business in the San Diego region or do you do a lot of business in the Dayton, Ohio region? So like, when you think about those things, does that make sense for you and what you want to accomplish? If it does, then perfect, you know, it might be great for you. And then the other part of that is that is like, hey, the blog talk shows are all about entrepreneurs and I'm really talking to real estate professionals. Or, you know, it just may not be a match to the kind of people you want to attract. So really look carefully at that because a million just more listeners does not mean more business for you.

Yeah, I don't really buy into. You can tell I'm not a big fan of the Internet radio, blog talk radio, whatever any of these types of programs because they're trying to have content that they own that's in their network that attracts people to go listen to their platform instead of another platform. And the way that we've been experiencing the trends happening for, you know, listens to podcasts, the audiences for podcasts growing, the trend is definitely moving away from a set schedule show at a certain time, even if it's recorded that you can watch afterwards. People by and large want to go to the biggest distribution channels for content that they can watch any show in and not limit themselves going to a smaller organization that has less choices. So I really don't see that changing. And there being a significant benefit to being on someone else's network or platform as a radio show. Unless really only exception I see to that is if you're someone that really needs to have things organized for you and having that pending live time once a week coming at that certain time.

And a producer who helps produce it.

For you and to force you to do it, that otherwise you're not disciplined enough. And it's not meant to be a criticism, but I mean, you really are not the type of person that need that deadline organized enough to record at any old time you want. If you never record, then maybe that would be a bad thing, right?

And you know, thinking about that audience as being really critical to you is like, you also really important. I mean, you want to transfer that audience to you at some point, right? You want them to join your membership group, sign up for your email list, friends, you on Facebook, like whatever the goals are for where you want to transfer that to. And we see a lower level of transfer happening from the blog shows. And one way to test this out, if you're concerned about it, it's to really test it out is to if you like a certain blog talk network or a blog talk radio channel, like where they have multiple shows and you're considering going on with them, go on some of their other shows and as a guest, check it out, try it out, see how it is. See if you get anyone to follow your call to action, to friend you on Facebook from that. See what kind of transfer you get as a guest, because a guest is an expert. So theoretically they should just get just as good a mix of transfer as the host themselves. Of course, the host has the repeat. So that will happen again and again and again for them. And what I found, because I've done tons of podcast interviews where I'm the guest and tons of radio show interviews, and I have found personally That I got less from the radio show and more from the podcast interactions than I did. There's more action taken by the podcast listeners than there is now. Many of the shows do transfer and put you on a podcast, right? Give you a podcast link. And there are two kinds here. And that's one of the audience transfer problems you have is so they create an itunes page for you, right? You've got your show on itunes, and that's great. And everything. You don't get those subscribers, Itunes keeps those subscribers. So again, they're still not your listeners. They're itunes listeners. So you have to be careful in that. And then the second problem that happens is some shows put a global show with every single one of their radio shows, definitely do not agree to that. Whatever happens, you need your own icon, your own show. Unless all those shows are focused on exactly the same audience, like, they're all about the same type of thing. And so you're all gonna trade in getting that great audience. You're gonna end up like one of many. And you don't want to be that. You want to be the authority.

Well, and here's my biggest issue for you, being the authority. I mean, at feed, you'd brand, and at brandcasters, we're all about podcasting to market and grow your. This is about spreading your unique perspective and sharing your message with the world. Yes, but you also want to get something out of it. Like Tracy said, you want to build a large following. You want to add to your email list. You want to have a market to sell your books or teaching courses programs. Products could be many different things. But in order to do that, you really need to have the traffic come to your domain to come to your website. And here's one of the things that happens with some of these networks is, yeah, put you on itunes. Oh, great. They're taking care of that for you. How wonderful problem is, when you go to that itunes listing, there is a link to the website for the show. And all too often in these radio situations, that link is going to the radio show's website. They're capturing the web traffic. And also when it's promoted on Facebook or LinkedIn, the links for that are going to the radio show's website. That really doesn't help you as podcasters. You build this audience who learns to know, like, and trust you and wants to hear more from you. And what happens is you want to engage them on your website, in your domain. The only way to do that is have full control and full rights of it. That Link on itunes page should go to your website. Every link for every episode should link to your website. Even though we're putting this on Facebook right now as a live video, there's going to be a link below in the comments for our website for feedyourbrand.co or brandcastingyou.com and then that's where you come to engage in our content and see our podcasts. So social media is a wonderful thing. You use it, but you want to be bringing people back to your site, have your complete control over your audience, or at least have every opportunity to engage with that audience on your turf, basically.

Yeah. I mean, you want them to, you know, see the sidebar, buy into your programs, find out how else they can connect with you. You just want that to happen. And that's what the radio show wants, too. That's why they want you there, because they want to drive more eyes there, and that way they can sell more. They get more ads, they get more dollars from those ads and all of that. So, you know, they same goals, but it's contradictory to you transacting business with a core audience. It's distracting.

And it really can have a lot of brand confusion too. And, you know, you're in business to promote yourself as an individual or as a company, as a brand in some way, shape or form.

Right now we see some people who do it really great, like I love Aaron Young and Michelle Young's show. I mean, gosh, they do a great job there. The show is called the Unshackled Life, and they're doing a great job there, and it works out. And it's really the wonderful network that they're on there because it's all entrepreneurs. It's all focused on that, and they're thought leaders in that, and they're putting themselves out there like that. So that works really well for them. And that is a good situation. But it may not be working for every one of you. And that's what you really have to develop for yourself and do it.

I will say the only place that I watch their show, though, is on Facebook.

Right.

I'm not going to this radio show's website. And I don't know how many people are. I'd be interested to know that.

Right.

And so that's another thing that's like, you know, where is the transacting of that really valuable to them? Those are things that you need to evaluate. And so check that out and see how that works before you sign on the dotted line.

Well, and then as any relationship, business or Otherwise has a beginning, a middle and an end. Remember, there is an end.

That's where we've been picking up the pieces lately.

Right. When you get into it, make sure you know what you're getting into and what you're gonna have to deal with when you get out of it. Cause we've had a lot of trouble where somebody decides to part ways with this radio show producer and they immediately shut down their show on their, like on their website. You're dead to them. Right? That can be very difficult because all of a sudden your podcast is no longer on itunes and you want to continue it. Maybe. And maybe you like a customer this week who contacted us, went and wants to continue their podcast on their own. But they need to work hard to get their old episode media so it could be relisted on itunes. And they also, you know, a lot of the assets, you know, the COVID art and you know, other details were hard for them to get. And the worst part though is the listing on itunes. You want to continue because you have a lot of subscribers that are listening to you all the time and you want to maintain those subscribers. You don't want to make it difficult for them to find you again. So the last thing you want to.

Do is Sonia's putting out that it's an exit strategy. That's right. You need an exit strategy from the beginning and you don't always think about it. And unfortunately there's a lot of technical. So if you're going into blog talk radio or you're going into the radio show with no technical skills, the exit strategy part is technical. And so you may not know that you didn't have the rights to it, you don't have the ability to get your files, you don't know how your supposed to do it. And you go, hey, budget wise, I'm done, I don't want to do this anymore. And you stop paying. And now all of a sudden your content is gone, like literally gone off of it. And so luckily we caught for this one client, we caught this where it was still cashed and still able to be caught and we were still able to get it all out of there. But it could have been tight. We were a little worried there.

There's a narrow window of time you have in order to have that continuity so that people don't have to resubscribe to your show. It's hard enough to get those subscribers subscribers the first time. To get them to subscribe twice to the same show can be very challenging. So you want to make sure.

That.

Here's a slight techie detail. Forgive me on this slight techie tangent for a moment, but if somebody else lists your show on itunes for you, and they're providing the hosting of the podcast, they're providing the RSS feed, which is a URL that you give to itunes. That's how they get. Get your shows right. You have to make sure that whoever has created that RSS feed is gonna willingly provide you a redirect to your new feed. And that's how people will not have to resubscribe. You can start serving the podcast from somewhere different. The URL that's provided to itunes doesn't change, and you have continuity, but it's not always that easy. And sometimes you scramble trying to contact someone at the company. Oh, I need a redirect. I need a redirect. And just getting them to even take your call when.

Because you're not a client.

Yeah.

Can be really tricky. So these are the things that we're dealing with. Sometimes picking up the pieces for others.

Yeah. And so, anyway, we just wanted to put this out there. That's why we wanted to get this out with the Facebook Live and get it out as fast as possible so that you guys have this information and you can really consider how you're approaching this and what you're doing. And then maybe plan some smart controls in place. And be aware that when you're ready to exit, call us, call someone, call someone with the right technical skills, and do it before you say goodbye to your host or your radio contractor, whatever you do.

So now, I will also say absolutely nothing wrong with distributing your podcast through every possible distribution channel out there, especially if they're free and most of them are to list them. Great. Put it out everywhere. Just make sure that you're in control.

Yeah.

And you own it.

Yeah. And I do want to mention one that you have to be really careful of the contracts on and how you get your content. IHeartRadio is incredibly restrictive in some ways in the way that it works there. So if you do have an iHeartRadio show, be aware of that. If it's an iHeartRadio first show, be aware of that. Sometimes you can rebroadcast. It's totally different that way. But if it's first on there, be really careful of that. So be cautious of that if you're headed into that situation on your show.

So what is it, Tracy? I think people really think, hey, there's a network out there like our Heart Radio, and that's gonna build my show more quickly. Right. And that they have an audience, there's a draw somehow that gives more credibility to your show, don't you think?

Yeah, I mean, I think that that's what it is, is that, you know, we're all struggling to get more clients, get more listeners, get more members, get whatever, more of whatever we need lead generation.

Right.

I mean, it's the biggest problem in every business I talk to. And so tapping your way out there, right, finding new venues for that to happen and is really important. But what we found is, is that when you're in some of these where it is not important to them who you are, it's just important that they have more people, more members, more content. More for them does not translate to more for you. And so the right match of those things is critically important for you. Now, that being said, if you own your own content and everything's on your site and you're driving, everyone's there, and you're, as we called, rebroadcasting, right. You're in other directories and you're out there, that's really great. I mean, we encourage that. We do that for our clients here. We put them on TuneIn, which is the Alexa device, right? That's what you do, and go, hey, Alexa, play the feed. Your brand podcast. You know, we make sure that it's convenient.

Google Play.

Lots of people don't even know that Google Play has a whole podcast section, just like itunes does. And it gets played a lot there. We have a good section, a growing section there. There's Stitcher, There's. There's many, many directories, just directories of podcasts that people find cool, and they might have ones in your niche. Like all the health and wellness podcasts are all together on, you know, some people put a directory together of those, and the listings don't cost you. So they're free and they're there. So you definitely want that, you know, get yourself out there and get yourself listed in as many as possible. And we try to keep that up on the major directories for our clients. And we provide that technical service because it is technical for the most part. But the other part is just building relationships with great groups to rebroadcast your message or share it.

Yeah, but it really has been our experience that even if you are just starting out as a podcaster and you have 100 fans, subscribers, listeners who are yours that engage with you, come to your website, opt in what you have, they are much more valuable than a thousand that are just out there off some other network that you know are perusing the content and watching from time to time. You really can build a very valuable following community network of fans who really want to listen to what you have to say in a relatively short period of time. And the traffic value that you can get to your website and all of the value that that brings you is really significant and meaningful. And we see it with many different clients in many different ways, depending on what kind of business they're in, whether it's real estate or they're a doctor or they're a consultant. You know, there's many, many different ways that we measure success, but it is actually working and transacting for them in business.

Yeah. So I mean we here is resources to you want feed your brand to be as helpful as possible. We want you to avoid pitfalls. We want you to give you the stuff that's working really well for podcasters out there, for brandcasters, for bloggers. So it goes farther. Right. Remember, we're always talking about brand casting. Means that you're blogging, you're actually creating good SEO, good Google links, you're podcasting, so you're getting stuff out there in audio, maybe you're video casting. That's a choice. Some people just are not comfortable on video. It's not my favorite first choice. But look, we do it so, you know, video is an important and growing important part of that as well. And then we want to find other ways to like post on social and do some of these things that are just getting your messages heard and creating that so that you really start with one core thing that you do. And whether that's record your radio show or record your podcast or record your video, doesn't matter. You start from one thing and everything else flows from that. And you get multi platform value from everything you do do content marketing.

Right.

That's what this is. And so we just want to make sure to expose you to the waste. This is the thing about Tom and I, we have three kids, we have, you know, a busy life, we run a business together. So we're in this to make sure that everything works as optimum as possible. And we would not keep podcasting for two and a half years.

Coming up on three.

Coming up on three. Yeah, we're more than two and a half years, over 500 episodes on one of our shows and we've started this one and another one. So we wouldn't be doing that if it wasn't working. And so that's really where we want to really show you the best practices. And we also wanna share with you where it's working for people that are much more like you. You know, maybe your business isn't like ours and you're worried that it won't work for you. We wanna share those and show those for you techniques that are working. And so that's our ultimate goal here. And so if we can help you, if you have any questions, anything you wanna share, things that you want us to cover in this podcast, please let us know. Share with us right here on Facebook at feed your brand. And you, of course, always go to the website feedyourbrand co and you can leave a message there as well.

All right.

Yeah.

Guess that covers it, doesn't it?

Yeah. So thanks for watching and listening. Right? That is the first time we get to say that. Thanks for watching and listening. And we'll be back soon with another episode of feed your brand.

And now I have to figure out how to turn this off.

Too. Funny. You are seriously funny. I don't know. We can't turn it off, guys. Here, we'll call the daughter.

Oh, my gosh.

Seriously? There is a way.

Recording. How about recording? Nope. We're gonn here and have this extra long end to feed your brand.

This is the outtakes.

How about up here?

This is the outtakes.

Well, I really enjoyed that. And, you know, I was listening more than speaking during that interview, Tracy, because I wanted to learn a bit from her and really understand it. And let me preface what I'm going to say with the fact that I completely respect Jean and what she's doing, and there's absolutely a need for it. Okay. But I do think that that key question that we talked about in the interview is that you have to know who your customer is, what they're interested in, or, you know, you have to understand that avatar so well in order to really engage in a paid digital marketing program. And I think that many entrepreneurs and small businesses, even if they think they know who it is, in terms of all the data and details of a pixel on Facebook and things like this, they may think they know, but I don't think they really do know. And my concern is if. If you're going to engage in that kind of program, if you don't know exactly. If you're not sure exactly who it is you need to reach, you're going to waste a lot of time and money in trial and error figuring that out.

Yeah.

But that's why you also, though, want an expert in that case to help you out with that, because Are you really the best person? And this is where I find it all. Often we hear it so often that you're like, you think you know who your customers are, and that's not who they are at all.

I agree.

Yeah.

You know, you think like we say, well, we think we have on our podcast a lot of on our 3D print podcast, especially a lot of educators and students and that they're in this younger age demographic and interested in technology. That's was the premise when we started out. We have a lot of retirees, we have a lot of engineers looking to pivot jobs. Like, I mean, we have. I mean, I'm always shocked when people walk up to me at a trade show. I'm like, oh, you're that listener who keeps communicating with me and messaging. I was like, wow, you're 10 years older than I thought.

Or, you know, you're a guy. I thought you were a woman, you.

Know, but it's so surprising to me. And so I think really dialing it in, having a system by which you can tell that. And I think that's where, you know, there are techniques like she was talking about the retargeting, where you take your email list, you take your subscriber list, and you drop them in Facebook and you get a demographic view of them. Wow. Now you have some more details. Now you have some more information. And you're not just assuming, based on the five or six people who constantly message you, that that's what your audience looks like. And so that's really, I think, critical factor. The more information that we found, the more information, the more we can, and I'm going to say hack the system from an organic standpoint. The more we can be really, really smart about what we make our next episode about. The more our organic and viral opportunities you have if you can't afford the paid model. But I think that we're also missing the point. And it is something that we have not paid for advertising. You know, we've done tests, like, just to try out people's programs, but we've not paid for advertising on our podcast on purpose. We wanted to see if we could do it organically, but we also didn't want to spend money because it wasn't our core business. So why would we spend money on something that wasn't core business?

Yeah, you're talking about the 3D printing podcast.

Right.

And I agree with that one. You know, the reality is it was, I guess, I don't want to say tangent, but it was an ingredient of our Business and not the entire.

And not the entire. And it was a model and a test and we were doing a bunch of things with it. So it was not something we were willing to put an ad budget towards. So we purposefully didn't. And we've organically grown it to a hundred thousand plays per month and you know, all sorts of things like that. So, you know, we recognize that there is value there, but we also recognize that we don't really make money from the engagement of the audience because we don't have a funnel, we don't have a business, we don't for that, we don't send it into it. It's, it's not our purpose. It is more info based than anything else. And so we have a different purpose. But that's not what every podcaster is about. Many, many of them have services and courses and other things that they're promoting and they can't wait that amount of time. They can't wait till they get to 500 episodes and 100,000 plays. Like, they can't wait for that. They need an accelerator. And that's when you have to look at it and go, is this time and am I ripe to do some kind of paid boost? Do I need a boost? Do I need a boost to launch?

Do I need a boost along the way?

Because I'm almost ready for advertisers and if I just got my listenership up this may, or my engagement up, or if I knew more about my demographics, graphics, maybe it's time. And that's really why I wanted to.

Have Gene on the show, is to.

Really kind of analyze that for yourself. Is that this time? And I think in this year 2018, I think that's where we are in our business, where we're saying we've done a lot, we've tested out our model, we've got a great business, we've got systems in place, we've got scalable growth. But what we don't have is quite the boost that we would like. And maybe it's time just to go jump a level and not wait for months for it to organically grow for us. Let's just jump over level.

So you're talking now about the brand casting business.

I'm talking about Brandcast. Feed your brain right now.

Because, yeah, you shifted from the 3D print podcast.

Well, I think it may be time on the 3D Print podcast as well.

Don't get me wrong, it may be, but I'll tell you, I still, I fundamentally believe, and I'm 100% confident that having the written content on your website is ultra critical to success. Because if, especially if you are not completely certain who your customer is, believe.

Me, they are out there on Google.

Searching on their pain points. Even if they don't really know what they want or need, they're searching in their pain points. And that's really what we do and what this is all about. And you've got to have that content. Otherwise, if you did a podcast and didn't have the written content, you're just leaving that content on the table. Google doesn't index what is said within a podcast or what is said within a video. They'll only index the name of the video and whatever it might be tagged with, and that's it. So believe me, there is a huge amount of. Of marketing that Google does for you by indexing that content.

I want to stop there because I'm not disagreeing with what you're saying. But it's just platform. It's just great content. It's just reasons for people to convert once they get there. But if they never find you because they're never typing that in, or if they never see the social posts because your social posts are only going out to 13% of your page likes, then they're not seeing it to get started. And that's where you have to boost up and have enough numbers for them to be able to see that.

Right?

Well, I agree with that, Tracy. On those social media platforms, Facebook, LinkedIn, Instagram, whatever, you're 100% right. I mean, in order to get exposure, you've got to pay to get beyond whatever organically that platform is going to give you exposure for, no question. And there is a time and a place for that, and it can be critical for business success.

Well, and we saw that because we did this little minor test just to see what would happen to try somebody who said, oh, you can get. I Forget what it was. 10,000.

10,000 likes on Facebook in 72 hours. And $100.

$200. No, 100.

$100. Anyway, it was kind of a bust.

I mean, it did do it, but.

They were used valuable likes.

They weren't really your customers, and they never would be at that level.

Right. But we tested it out. And what we did see, though, that happened, and that's why the paid model works, is that what we did see was that all the posts that we posted during that time, even though it wasn't a part of the ad, all got boosted by Facebook. They g more value, gave us to A broader viewership whenever we posted during that time period that we had an ad campaign running.

That's true. It really is evidence of the pay to play.

It's an incentive program. Think about it. I think about it like gambling, right?

Like this is like you've got to.

Like occasionally give them a win when they're dropping their pennies or their quarters in the slot machine. And that's what Facebook's doing is there's a kind of boosting it and going, look at how well you're doing. And even though it may not be the result of the actual ad, it's because they're boosting you overall to get you addicted to the ad model. And it's the reality. It does work because of that.

I agree. But let me give you an example from the brandcaster business. You know, if you want to find somebody who would be a potential podcaster, they're all over the map in every single industry, all walks of life. Some are big corporations, some are individuals just starting out, some are small established businesses and they're doctors and they're other kinds of entrepreneurs and business people. And it is very hard to identify who that avatar is. There are some. Some similar qualities, but it's very hard to do so in terms of a paid marketing strategy on social media, that would be very hard. Now, if we want to get existing podcasters to move over to our platform, there is a lot of commonalities there and it's easier to search on. And so that's why that issue of who are they? You have to know who they are is so ultra critical and the great part.

And then find more of them.

Absolutely.

And that's really where I think you the find more of them to rely on. The idea that they're going to spread it to other people like them is just false. It doesn't always work. And that's where I think, again, if you really do have that dialed in and have that right and it is converting and working for you, then go spend some money and find even more.

I agree with that. But I think that the foundation of the content on your site being on Google, people finding you because they have the pain point of they need to get their message out to the world or to a bigger audience or they need to find customers, whatever those keyword terms are, and they're going to find your blog post on your site and then you can start to funnel them them from there, learn who they are. You might identify.

Wow.

There is a whole market of, you know, I don't Know, let's say automobile service technicians that are out there that might be interested in, I'm not saying that's really it for us, but I'm just throwing something out there you might learn, wow, there's a niche. And now you could learn about that niche and then put some money into it and market it. And to me, if you haven't created that foundation and aren't continuing to build that written content on your site that you're leaving so much money and opportunity on the table, you've got to be doing that no matter whether you're in.

Audio or video or, or however you're.

Getting your message out there. So that to me was just something I wanted to put out there. But I agree that boy, those five critical things that she shared with us that are key to digital marketing today are 100% right on.

Right. And we like to talk about foundational things, things that you should do early on because they're good even if you're not ready for these things yet. That putting in Facebook and Google pixels and those kinds of things are really smart strategies to do at the get go and they don't cost a lot of money. Jean has a free opt in where it's a three or four video parts. You can learn how to do it yourself. But she also has a done for you program. It's only $297. She'll just get your Facebook pixel up and running for you. I mean do you really need to know how to do that? My time's valuable, 250 bucks an hour easily. So like, you know, to me I'd be, you know, that's a no brainer that if it takes longer to watch the videos in an hour than do it. I'd rather have it done for me and done right. And so you know, but having that means you will have data later. And so these are critically important things to think about. And that's where you need to find an expert like Jean to help you with that and really go in and dive deep. The other thing is that she's offered up is a free PDF of her book. So all the links to her free book and her free opt in for the pixeling is all going to be on the website@brandcastingyou.com in the blog post that services this episode. So please be sure to go there and please be sure to check us out on Facebook @feedyourbrand.

Well, thanks for listening everybody.

We'll be back with another great interview next time.

This has been Tom and Tracy on feed you'd brand.