The Pros & Cons Of Making Guests Pay To Be On Your Podcast

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Hey everyone, welcome to Feed. You'd brand. I'm Tom Hazard, your host and today want to talk about a topic I get a lot of questions about from some of our podcasters that we support. And I want to talk about the pros and cons of making guests pay to be on your podcast. And sort of the footnote or subtitle to this is also I think pros and cons of paying to be a guest on someone's podcast. These things sort of go hand in hand. So I'm going to talk about it from both perspectives a bit here. And the big thing that I want to share with you is context is very important as you consider this. Okay, it is. There's not one universal answer. That's why I'm saying it's the pros and cons of doing it, of either making guests pay or paying. If you're wanting to get more exposure just for your personal brand or your podcast or your business paying to be on someone else's show. Is it worth doing? And so, like I said, context is very important. I do think there is in the independent podcaster community, which are the vast majority of podcasts out there, if somebody that asks to you to pay to be a guest on the show, if you as a podcaster are considering asking guests to pay a fee to be on your show, it can feel kind of scammy or I don't know how this word's going to translate, but it can sort of set the wrong kind of tone or send the wrong message, but depending on the context of the situation, I see it happening a lot. And in some situations it does make sense. Let me first share, though, where I think it doesn't make sense. If you're a brand new podcaster, you're launching a brand new show. I don't think it makes sense for you to require guests to pay to be on your show. You're going to drastically reduce the pool of guests that are willing to to be on your show and it's going to send a message that you're only in it for the money and that maybe there's not a good reason why they should do that. And what kind of value are you really providing or intending to provide to your audience? So as a brand new show, as an independent podcaster, I mean, obviously there are large corporate commercial shows and PR agencies and all sorts of different organizations are probably paying a lot of money to get people as guests on certain podcasts. But that's not really what I'm talking about. For the small independent podcaster, especially starting a new show, probably it's not in your best interest because it's probably going to send a lot of people running, not just walking or turning and leaving, but running in the other direction to not want to be associated with you or not interested in being on your show. Now, if you have a well established show with metrics that you can share and you can really make the value case, sell the value proposition that this person's going to get a lot of exposure on your show and there is a value to that and that you want to require a fee for them to share in that value because they're going to get exposure through your show. If you can really show that and make that case, then charging people to be on your show may be just fine. I will tell you the best cases where I've seen this are two things where a podcaster really does a lot of effort in promoting the show and they have a lot of costs and expenses and in doing that, and they ask their guests to contribute to that, that can be received a little better or even more. So giving your guests an option saying, hey, we pay to produce this show and we do promote it, but we have some additional promotion opportunities to reach even more people. And if you're willing to pay for that, your episode can reach more people and you can sort of position it as, hey, there's a sort of a premium opportunity to get more exposure if you're willing to pay. I've seen some shows do that. That still is met with some limited success and sometimes is met with some a healthy dose of doubt and skepticism that, well, why wouldn't you do that anyway for the show? Why make me willing to pay? Well, because hopefully, I guess the perspective is you, the host, should benefit from that in your business, maybe more so than the guests and the guest is providing their time and their mind share to be on your show and be interviewed. So, I mean, there's different ways people look at this. Some people, some podcasters think, well, no, yeah, I'm, I'm getting this guest to come on my show and that's a wonderful thing and I don't want to charge them for it. And others are like, hey, I'm doing heck of a lot of work, I'm spending a lot of money and I want the guests to help share in that if they're going to be on my show. And some people do require it.

So there are benefits and there are drawbacks to considering this. The ones that I've seen that I think have the most integrity and work the best. I'm going to give you two different examples here, is that we have a customer here at Poditize that literally the show is so popular and there are so many guests who are already booked, lined up for, literally scheduled for a year to be. They're not even going to be interviewed for a year. Forget then when it's going to publish. Now I keep telling that customer, wow, that's a pretty deep calendar of guests. You might consider publishing more than one a week if you've got that kind of depth. That easy for me to say. But then it doubles the cost of producing those episodes over that period of time. And this particular customer who actually reads the book of their guest and does a lot of research and homework and puts a lot of thought and energy into the interview, and that's very hard for her to do more than one a week. So I can understand that. But what she's done is really pretty interesting because she will have people that want to be a guest and they're like, whoa, wait a minute, you're not even going to interview me for a year? Okay, I'm not interested in that. Or, wow, that's really far out in the future. What I'm doing and what I want to share with your audience is more timely. Well, so what she offers is the ability for the guests to pay to jump the line to, hey, there are many other people who are scheduled and signed up ahead of you to be interviewed, and many already have been. And they're just being produced and scheduled over the next couple months. If you want your episode, if you want to be interviewed now and want your episode to air within the next six weeks is usually what she's doing. I think within six weeks or sometimes maybe within a month, I'll do that. But you're going to have to pay a fee of $300 or $400, whatever it is. I think those are sort of the range of what she's charging for that. That to me makes a lot of sense because people can understand, hey, you've just come now to ask to be interviewed on this show. Very happy to do it, but you're going to have to get in line behind all those people. If you want to jump the line and get your recording done now and your episode published sooner, that's fine, but you're going to need to pay. And then the other people who got in before you understand, hey, they didn't pay and they're waiting for the natural time to happen and their episode will publish. But so to me, you're paying for premium publishing date happening sooner, not having to wait. That, I think, is a reasonable and good reason why someone might charge a guest to be on their show or for a certain context or timing of being on their show. They don't have to and choose not to charge everyone for that. But a pretty deep recording schedule is, I think, a reality for some shows. And then there are some that are paying, are actually spending money to market their shows. I mean, at Poise, we have now a new promotion program where our podcasters are paying and their podcast audio clips of their recent episodes are being advertised on literally thousands of mobile phone apps, not podcast apps, but to raise awareness to new listeners every month. And there's a cost to that, and it works. It's driving people to go and click from that ad to go to their podcast page on their website or their YouTube channel or their show on Apple or Spotify, wherever they want them to go. But they're paying money to do that so they can show, hey, this show is being advertised to hundreds of thousands of new people every month. The impressions of those ads, they're reaching and being heard by hundreds of thousands of people every month. And you're going to benefit from that if you are willing to pay a fee. And so what they do then is have that episode with that guest be some of the sound bites that are played in those ads. So that's just one marketing program that's really working today to raise listenership and raise awareness of a podcast that a lot of podcasters are doing with us here at Potatoes. I know there are other programs that other podcasts engage in, pay agencies for social media promotion. And to get exposure, they're paying people to get more exposure to the YouTube channel. And if there are some real costs and the podcast can show that to the potential guest. Here's the good reason why we request, and that's a polite way of putting it, or in some realities that maybe more require a fee for you to be a guest on the show. When you've been accepted to be a guest, you can at least understand why that is. There's a good reason why. And they're going to get great value and exposure from it. That's why they should pay. And then I think there are an awful lot of guests that are willing to do that. Another one that I think is very important and worth mentioning is that we have some nonprofit podcasters, okay, And. And they're looking for donations and things to help support. And they're actually there. We have some nonprofit podcasters that are entirely supported by donations. It's a passion project, what they're doing for the podcast, and they are would. Are trying to help cover the cost of production so they can keep serving their community. And a lot of these are really good causes, okay? And so they're asking, and not requiring, but asking, recommending every one of their guests contribute $200, let's say, to help cover some of the cost of their podcast. And a lot of their guests on these nonprofits are willing to do that. And some of them even willing to contribute and donate more because they agree with the message and the cause and who the podcast is supporting out there, and they want to help do that. So you can use things like Patreon and some of those other things where you can just take credit card payments over your website. I see some doing that and some doing it through the booking process in order to book to be a guest. Even if it's an option, the option is right there for them to do it. And seeing a lot of people willing to do it. Now, I know a lot of you new podcasters listening here might be thinking, whoa, this is a whole nother level. I wasn't thinking of ever charging someone to be a guest. And it's overly complicated. Well, don't worry about it. Don't think about that right now. Get your podcast established, and over time, there may be an appropriate situation and good reason why you might want to charge a guest to be on your podcast. But it's not for everybody. I don't believe I've ever charged anybody to be a guest on any one of the podcasts that I've done over the years. But I have a different purpose for my podcast and what I'm doing. And I really don't need to charge someone, and I never did. Now, I did different kinds of monetization, though, through sponsorship. This is one way people monetize their podcast, is charging their guests to be on the show. But now let's talk about should you pay to be a guest on someone else's show? And I've got an example here I want to share. There are some shows, actually somebody I do business with who's not a podcaster, just has a marketing agency asked me actually earlier this week, a couple days ago, hey, Tom, I have had someone approach me about being a guest on their podcast, and they've given me all this criteria, and they're not charging a whole lot of money. It's a couple hundred bucks, but can you look at it and let me know if you think that it's worth doing? And initially, when he told me this on just a phone call, I had my sort of doubt and skepticism meter was going up a little bit. And I'm like, you got to be careful. You really got to evaluate it. But he sent me the information, and when I saw the metrics of what they say their listenership is, and you have to take a little leap of faith there because you cannot conclusively prove that unless they. Well, even if they provide you screenshots and things, you have to trust they're true. And I have seen some shows doctor that stuff, I'm really sorry to say. I've seen some shows absolutely fabricate their numbers, and that doesn't help us all in this industry right when we are providing an offer that has value to the potential guest. But anyway, he forwarded me this email, I reviewed it, and it was like $269 they charge. And when I looked at their website, saw their podcast, and I was able to look up some things that, all right, this is a legitimate show. And the owner of the marketing agency I was talking to says, look, I'm always trying to get exposure. And it seems like their audience is a good fit for me, less than 300 bucks. It's not a huge expense for me. I'm willing to do it. Do you think it's worth it? And I said, yeah, after looking at it, said, you know what? I don't always think it's the best situation to set a precedent for paying to be a guest on shows, but in this one, in your particular context, you're not a podcaster. You're own an agency, and you're wanting to share some of your wisdom with a podcast audience, and you're willing to pay to do it. And they seem to have some decent audience. And from what I could look, it was at least believable. They had a. The podcast was well established, they had a long history. And I said, you know what? Yeah, I think it'd be worth doing for you. And that was my opinion.

Now let's go to another whole level and I'm going to provide this last example in terms of context is a podcast that many of us podcasters have heard about because it was one of the early, very successful podcasts that is a one of those what they call sort of passive income podcasts. And I don't really think it's that passive because I know that the organization behind it does an awful lot of work. But I know others who have paid as much as $5,000 to be on a single episode, to be a guest on a single episode of a very big podcast and the one that I have am remembering and that I know I spoke to this person. So I mean, this is. I didn't pay to do it, but I spoke to someone that did. So this is, I guess, secondhand information. But I also believe it and have done a little homework and believe it to be true at the time. I don't know if they're still doing it today, but the show is Entrepreneur on Fire John Lee Dumas. They are well known for being a huge podcast with a very large listening audience. And they pitch that they provide a tremendous amount of value for every guest on their show. And at that time, and it may be more today or than and me not doing it anymore, I did not do that level of homework for this episode today because it really doesn't matter for what I'm sharing with you because there are other shows that I know do charge large amounts of money for someone to be a guest and at the time they're charging about $5,000 and talked to a couple of people that did that and it was quite a big value proposition. But not a lot of them got the really the return they were expecting out of it. And I'm not saying everyone does not. I am not bashing Entrepreneur on Fire podcast in any way. I think that depending on certain situations, there could be value in that. But that's a very different proposition. And I'm not really a fan of paying huge amounts of money like that. That's an awful lot of. It's kind of like in the podcast world, it's almost the equivalent of putting a huge amount of your budget in an ad on the Super Bowl. Right. And hoping that's gonna make or break or not break, but hopefully year of advertising, it's a really big bet. And if you do something like that, just make sure you understand what you're getting into in the full context and make sure you really that's within your budget to afford. And how are you going to measure success, I think, is the biggest thing that I would recommend for anyone. Whether you are charging someone to be a guest on your show, I think you need to think about what's the value proposition, what are they getting in return for that payment, and can you make that case and deliver that value? And if you can, then great, you can charge for someone to be a guest on your show. But when you're paying to be on someone's show, I think you have to do your due diligence and make sure it's worth it to you. Either you're doing it as a donation and it's a goodwill thing because you want to support the podcast and you're going to get some value of exposure from it that's going to last for as long as the show hopefully is in existence. Tracy and I still get emails, calls, people reaching out to us from episodes of podcasts that we produced years ago. And even podcasts were not. I mean, that we were our own shows and even ones that we're not even recording any new episodes on anymore, ones that we've pod faded, but they're still out there because they're providing value to some people. So we still do get calls from them. Having people on our show, but also being guests on other shows. Sorry, I'm sort of mixing the two there. We've done it where we've been guests on other shows and we're still getting value from that. So there is a value proposition. So again, I want to return to the context is really important and there for certain shows. I can understand when you evaluate that if you think, oh my gosh, I'm going to run the other direction, I am not going to pay to be a guest on that show because it just feels like they're using me, the guest, as a profit center. And if you're not willing to do that, you don't have to do it. But there are many situations where it makes perfectly good sense. There's an equitable exchange and you absolutely can provide good value for that fee you're charging or get good value for the fee that you're paying to be a guest on someone else's show. So that's really think about that exchange of value. Is it equitable? Is it reasonable? Is it fair? Is it a win win? And if it is for you, by all means do it. If it doesn't feel right to you, then don't do it. And I would also say talk to others whenever you. If you're considering paying to be on someone's podcast, those other people that must have paid to do that before, ask that podcaster for some references of other people that have paid to do it, and they should be able to provide you some that you can contact. That's another thing. Again, what I'm saying is do your due diligence. And I'm not here to give you a checklist of due diligence items. But obviously any of us can do our homework. Any of us can do a little Googling about that show, can do a little Googling about that person, and you can learn an awful lot and see, hey, are they for real or are they not? And other people will do that to you as well. And that's okay, right? I mean, podcaster listeners want authenticity. I think all of us who are in the independent podcasting world for sure are trying to be real and authentic and bring real value to our listeners. And I think we can also bring real value to guests. And I love the pay to jump the line. I think that's legitimate and works for a lot of shows. Paying for exposure and promotion can work very well. And I love also the nonprofit donations helping contribute to support the show. If someone's in there for the right reasons, they'll do it. And by the way, obviously I've not talked at all about paying an agency to place you as a guest on other shows. That's an entirely different thing. That was not the subject of this podcast. And there is merit and value in that. That's something we've talked about, I believe, in some past episodes and probably something we should revisit again, because we do see lots of people who are not podcasters using an agency to pay to get to be a guest on other podcasts for their own marketing purposes and value. And some podcasts won't accept you unless you are a podcast host. There are some shows that won't accept you as a guest unless you have your own podcast and might be willing to do a podcast swap in terms of an interview swap. But there are lots of shows that accept guests who are just people in business or authors with a new book. That's one of the most common things. But anyone who wants to market and grow either their personal or business brand, you can pay an agency to do that and do think there's lots of value potentially in that with the right agency. But other than that, we'll save that topic for another day. All right.

So I hope you found this useful and valuable. Again, pros and cons. I'm not saying you absolutely should or you absolutely shouldn't. There are good reasons why you might want to, and then there are some good reasons why you may want to. Context is important. Evaluate it for yourself. Gonna have to make a judgment call at the end of the day as to whether it's a fit for you to do it, either to charge your guests or to pay to be a guest on someone else's show. And I leave it up to your good judgment to do that and evaluate for yourself. All right, thanks so much everybody. Next episode, Tracy will be back with me, finally off of her jury duty stint, which is going to be exciting and look forward to seeing you or speaking with you on the next episode of Feed your brand.

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