This Coach Will Give You Ideas On How To Get Inspired To Do What You Need To Do With Tiphany Kane Of Radical Audacity In Love & Life And Mastering The Podcaster Mindset

Wish you were one of those influencers with raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority Magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazzard shares strategies, tips and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor. Now let's join Tracy as she explores how to rise above all the digital noise with the Binge Factor.

Hey everyone, welcome to the Binge Factor. I'm Tracy Hazzard and I have Tiffany Caine today and she and I finally met in person. I guess she was stalking me since she podcast a year ago or more than a year and we found out we're in the same town and she invited me to a meetup. We got connected. We decided to sponsor the meetup. We had a lot of fun doing that and just have hit it off and I am so looking forward to bringing Tiffany back. I think we're going to make a regular thing out of having her on the show or having her on Feed your Brand maybe. I just think our mindshare is similar and I think we can really bring a lot to the table having you hear some perspectives from her. Tiffany Cain is Mastering the Podcaster Mindset is the name of her show, but she is known as the Heck Yes Coach. She is passionate about coaching women to turn painful no's in life and business into empowered opportunities to find the Heck Yes. Tiffany is an entrepreneur, public speaker, coach and writer who brings her passion for the art of the spoken word to people who need help finding their voice. She weaves in her own personal stories of escaping a cult at 19 years old, leaving a toxic abuse of a marriage 20 years later, and then leaving a 20 year career in public education to start a business. Tiffany is the co founder of Casa Media Productions as well as the host of two podcasts, Radical Audacity in Love and Life and Mastering the Podcaster Mindset. I'm so glad I had Tiffany on the show and we'll just have to share an interview that I did with her and her partner David. We'll have a conversation about that as well. And let's check out this interview with Tiffany and hear about Podcaster Mindset because I think that's critically important today.

Tiffany, so glad to talk to you. We are excited to talk about Mastering the Podcaster Mindset. As I listened to the show and as I of course we had our interview with you before, I'm thinking Mindset is such a critical Part of podcasting, it really isn't talked about enough because people get caught up in like, what microphone do you have? And what this, Right?

Yes, absolutely. Okay, first of all, we are mic geeks and tech geeks. My partner has 40, 50 mics at this point. We're into all of that stuff too, don't get me wrong. But when we are working with people around podcasting, the number one thing that stops them is mindset. It's imposter syndrome. It's tech overwhelm and getting to the point where frozen. It's all these fear type of things that affect people and stop them. It's the fear of being vulnerable. The fear of what are people going to think? What are people going to say? Am I going to have enough content? Am I going to remember all the steps? There's just so much fear and anxiety that often hinders people from that first step. And then you talk about pod fade all the time and I love that you talk about it because that's like the giant elephant in the room. People get started and then go, nobody's listening. Or this is harder than I thought, and start questioning themselves. And so then the fear comes in after they start of, am I really meant to do this? We really focus a lot on our podcast on, yes, monetize your podcast. Yes, grow your audience. But also, what's the mindset piece of all of that?

I think it's so interesting that you really focus on that because, look, there's a lot of people out there who should be podcasting, right? They're going to be so great at it. Their message is so valuable. Right. We want to get that out to the world. There's a reason why at Pod Enties, we don't have a high pod fade rate. And it has nothing to do with the fact that we teach a better mindset or anything. It's just that we pick people who already start with the right mindset and we screen them out in our sales process. We think they won't because the one thing I hear, Tom, he says it again and again in sales meetings. He'll say, I can't make you record. Yep, I can't do that for you. I can do everything else, all surrounding it. I can take care of your tech overwhelm. I can take care of a lot of these things to hopefully prevent some of those mindset and doubt things to come in, but I can't record for you. We already pre select people who are more likely to succeed there, which really skews our number and Makes it more successful. Right? But it's only because we selected out a lot of people.

And I think what you guys do really well with your processes is people that come to you already see the value of podcasting and they're willing to invest in podcasting. And it's people often that are like, how can I do this? Free? Or the cheapest. And then oftentimes a lot of, if you're not willing to invest in coaching or you're not willing to invest in somebody to help with the pieces and parts that are hard for you, then if you're trying to do all of the things and you're trying to do it free, then yeah, it's a lot, and it's a lot to do on your own. What you're doing in your process is you're saying, okay, we're looking for the people that are willing to invest. You're either going to invest your time or your money. And either way, time is money. Let's figure out how to make this the most profitable venture for you. Because let's face it, podcasting is from your heart and you're sharing your vulnerable story. And it's a passion project for many people. But we also want to be able to. Most of us want it to be an income stream. We want it to somehow be a revenue generator, a brand accelerator, something to open opportunities, open doors. There's so many things podcasts can do for you, and you've got to invest in it. Whether it's with a coach or with a company that's going to help you get all this stuff done, a production team, how are you going to do it? And that's a mindset piece in and of itself is investing in this dream, investing in this thing.

You and I talked about this. There's a lot of people out there, unfortunately, that are preying on the idea of podcasting, but glossing over all the things that you do need to do and you do have to have and the mindset you need and all of those things are getting glossed over. They're being sold something that isn't real. And that I think is really frustrating.

I think you hit the nail on the head. I was working with a one on one client this past week and she said, you know, I was working with this person on podcasting, I took this person's course and they, they just kept saying how easy it is, how you just hit record and it's easy, it's easy, it's easy. And she's all, it's not easy. For me. And I feel there must be something wrong with me because it's not easy. And that, I think, is the biggest disservice to saying that podcasting is, quote, unquote, easy, because there are lots of things in place that make it easier than it used to be.

Oh, way easier than it used to be. Right.

10, 15 years ago, there's a whole set of tech challenges, like, so many of the tech barriers have been taken away. So, yes, it's easier now than ever, but there's so much to it that is not easy or intuitive, and there's a huge learning curve and there is a huge commitment that you need. And I think it is a disservice to say, oh, podcasting is easy. Anybody can do it. Anybody can do almost anything. As long as you have the help and the coaching and the resources and the team. And that, sure. But very little worth doing is easy.

Right? Exactly. That's so interesting. So let's talk about your first show when you started that, because you started shows within a few months of each other. So your first show was Radical Audacity and Love and Life. And then you started that in August of 2021. And then in November, you started mastering the podcaster mindset. So you, like, you did one and then the other, like, right after each other. That sounds a little bit crazy. It sounds a little. A little aggressive. Yeah, a little bit.

Okay, so it's a funny story if we have time for a little bit of a bird walk story, of course, which is interesting. My first podcast was actually Love and Life After Divorce. And I started it because I had crisis in my day job. I was a teacher. I was really a teaching coach. I worked out of the district office. I coached teachers, I created professional development, and I was trying to move forward in my career, and I kept hitting brick walls. And my boss said to me, sat down with her. I'm like, why am I not moving forward? I've got all the skills, all the qualifications, all the drive. I'm a hard worker. And she said, tiffany, you're just too passionate. Which ended up being the most beautiful word they were telling me. We want people in administration and in leadership that are. Yes. People that will toe the company line, that will do what we are asking to do. And you ask too many questions and you're too passionate. And I am. I am passionate about making the world a better place. And so it was great opportunity for me to say, oh, well, maybe this isn't the place for me. Maybe I need something else. Podcasting fell into my lap. It was during that time listening to podcasts that helped me to find my direction. So I thought, ooh, I want to start a podcast. Because this has really helped me. I've loved it. Like it's been beacon for me finding all of these podcasters that have these incredible messages and thought, maybe I want to be a relationship coach for women after divorce. Because I went through a whole process. And so I started that podcast. But I tell you what, Tracy, almost the minute I started that podcast, I had dozens of people coming to me saying, how are you doing the podcast? Not a single person saying, well, can you be my relationship coach? They're saying, how are you doing this podcast? So I turn to my partner David, who is had been in the audio world for decades and like I said, has 50 mics and all the gears and gadget and I just said, hey, we've had a lot of fun doing this podcast. He was my like tech person and I was the recorder. And I said, what if we start teaching people how to podcast? Let's did a little $25 one day workshop, seven easy ways to start your podcast. And Tracy, that opened up a can of worms for us, right? Like people just started pouring in wanting more information. And so then we realized all the questions our students were asking. If we started a podcast about podcasting for these new podcasters, then we can give them more information in between our times meeting with them. And so then Mastering the podcaster mindset was born. Just a few months after starting Love and Life after divorce and which funny story, we got Covid the day we launched Mastering the podcaster Mindset. We're so stinking sick for an entire month. So our early episodes, the ones we had batch recorded and then probably round.

Then scratchy voices, like nasally.

Yeah, showbus, go on. It's been great. And we that podcast, the intention for that one was just to serve our community. Like we really didn't do any social media about it. It was just our community.

So it wasn't as intense a launch as you had done with your others and trying to figure out how to find your audience and do all of that. And I think that's a good idea. You already had who you were working with, your community. Yeah, that makes sense.

It just exploded because people enjoyed our message and the style and Rick bantery and funny and it was fun. So yeah, that's the story. And then in January I'm like, I'm not going to be a divorce coach, so let's switch my podcast up So I changed the name and went through a rebrand. Yeah, it's been a fun journey, Tracy. I just got to tell you, it's been.

I love that. And Tom and I were on your show and we had a lot of fun with that. And it's fun to do two co hosts interviewing two guests. So we had a four way interview, which was just so fun and so different and. But Tom and I found it like more challenging to be. When we co host, we have a shorthand. We know who's going to take the next question just because it flows. But when you're answering questions, you don't know what's going to get thrown at you. And you're. It doesn't flow as easy. You're like. And we weren't in the same room, so we couldn't like nudge each other and say, you go. And so we're trying to figure out how we could let each other know that, oh, you should talk. And so I was actually having to do a verbal cue. Go, Tom, why don't you take that. I finally ended up doing that, which is just such a funny mechanism. You just don't think about it. But we're rarely do on the other side of the mic. Right. The interview side where the interviewer. So it's rare the other way. And we hadn't done one together in a real long time. So it was fun.

It was a blast. We really enjoyed it. I feel like Tom and David, my partner and Tom, they're the tech. They could talk tech all day long and have a blast. And you and I, we're like the geniuses of the group. Right? Like we're the marketing people, the connectors and the. And I just think we make. I know David and I make a great team because we have the different strengths and that compliment each other. And you and Tom as well. And it came through in our conversation how you were working off each other and all of that. But Tracy, you're the. You were the shining star when you first started that.

You had the great support of David and you had all of that going on from the tech side. So you didn't really have the tech overwhelm. Cause he took that. But what was your mindset Stumble? What was your challenge for you?

Oh, goodness. Okay. When I first launched my podcast, I didn't tell anybody. It was like a big secret. Oh, you were afraid to share it? I was. I started and I did a very soft launch. I didn't tell my family. I told a very select, small group of Friends. And I happened to have been in an entrepreneurial course at the time, and I told the people in the entrepreneurial course, and that was it. I started a whole new Instagram account that I didn't tell anybody about. It was just, well, let me play with this and see what happens. But I didn't want anybody to know I was doing it. So it was very, very hush. Because I was talking about my divorce and my life, and I just wasn't comfortable with everybody knowing about it yet. I mean, everybody that I knew, the whole rest of the world, whatever. It was funny to me. The evolution happened pretty quick, within four to six weeks, where I was like, let me scream it from the rooftop. This is a blast. I'm meeting the coolest people and talking to the most interesting guests, and I'm learning so much and I'm having so much fun. Okay, everybody, guess what? I have this podcast, and it's about this topic, and I just. Within four to six weeks was all in just. This is a blast. I'm loving it. It's what I'm meant to do.

And I bet that shift happened in terms of the growth of the show, too, because you don't realize how much you not talking about it in the early days is holding back the show.

Yeah.

There is this mindset out there of people who think that I put it out there. Listeners will come.

Yeah, right.

That's not how it works.

I do think the magic of podcasting downloads are nice. Listeners are nice. That's all really good. But the magic that happened for me was so internal. I am doing this thing and committing to myself and setting myself in this vulnerable way and sharing a message that will serve others for the purpose of serving others. And it opened up so much inside myself, so much creativity that had been trapped for so long, and your passion.

Got to come through. That, they were saying was a liability is really such a positive.

And that was a magic key that opened doors that I never saw that just suddenly started opening and where I got to collaborate with people that were I could only dream of collaborating with. I was speaking at a conference. The way my world has changed in 18 months has nothing to do with the downloads. Nothing at all. I could put an episode. Let's pretend I put an episode out, and not a single person listens. It doesn't matter, because I took action and I did the thing, and I'm meeting with people. And because of that, opportunities have flown in like magic. And we talk a lot about what are your personal metrics for success that have nothing to do with the downloads. How can your podcast serve you in ways where the downloads are like the icing on the cake? They're not the main course. And that for us, that's been the magic.

Do you think that word that you use, that it's freeing?

Yeah.

Is a really interesting idea and important because when you get caught up in the idea that the downloads matter, you're also don't realize because you don't know enough about the industry that you're comparing against a bunch of fake downloads out there too. So you're comparing against something that's not even real to begin with.

Yes.

That harms the whole model of who you think you are and where your value lies. And I'm going to say an ego hit when you don't achieve it. And that's why pod fade happens so quickly with people and so early in the process, because they didn't get what they believed was the case. But the reality was, is that they never saw that wasn't real to begin with. And I think that's an unusual thing about. People see that same thing on Instagram. They don't understand how big a percentage there are fake followers in Instagram as well. They think, oh, social media is a failure for me.

Yeah.

And then they don't continue to use it for what it can be it can do for them. And shifting that mindset is so hard because there's so much lack of information, lack of data, lack of understanding of how things work.

Here's what I like to say. Buzzsprout releases their download data information, and pretty consistently they find that if you're getting somewhere around 30 downloads an episode, you're in the top 50% of all podcasts.

Shockingly low compared to what people perceive it to be.

And if you're getting 75 to 100, that number shifts a little bit. You're in the top quarter of all podcasts.

Right.

So it's okay if I've got a room full of 30 people over to my house for dinner and I'm telling a story and they're all looking at me, that's a full house. That's a lot of cars in your driveway. It's a full house. It's a full room. And that's pretty awesome. You've got 30 people listening to you on your podcast episode. That's pretty amazing. If you're getting 100 downloads per episode. I gotta tell you, speaking at conferences, a lot of times you don't even get a hundred people in the room when you speak at the conference.

Not anymore. Not anymore. Or. And even if they just show up on virtual, the half of them aren't paying attention. So, yeah, right.

If you're getting 100 people listening to you on a regular basis, holy guacamole, that's impact. And I think we have to remember that each of these listens is a person listening to you and having impact from you. If you don't have a giant show that is getting thousands of downloads per episode, you can still have a massive impact because that person listening just might be your next client. And if you don't value that, if you are saying it's not, this isn't valid until I'm getting a thousand downloads an episode, then this just isn't worth it. But you have 30 people listening to you, and of those, 30, three or four might be your ideal client.

Yeah.

If you can bring in the three or four clients a month, isn't that cool?

That's a big deal. Exactly. And that's why I have clients who never pay attention to KKR less. They probably generate hundreds of thousands of dollars a year in income, but they don't even have a hundred downloads an episode. And that's okay with them because it doesn't matter. At the end of the day, it's not the goal, it's not the purpose of everything that they're doing. I think that's really important. But I think when we focus on downloads, that's the problem right there, is that downloads actually aren't an indicator of someone listening to it. If you don't go in, almost every buzzsprout you were referring to, almost every one of the hosts out there are solely focused on downloads and not plays and playthrough.

Yes.

And we can't get playthrough data if we don't know how to dive in and look for it. Because it's not can't flow back to the hosting company. It just doesn't work like that. Apple refuses to share that back. You have to log in, go look at it and see what that is. I have a podcast, and I've mentioned this before on the air, that is about breast cancer survivors. It has 110% playthrough. And they called me and they thought it was a mistake. And I said, this is not a mistake. This is amazing. It means that somebody is going back and replaying a section of your podcast because they got something so valuable. It says to me, you really ought to have a website where you put those resources there because they're going to go to it more often and that's going to drive more business for you, more members of your community, subscribers to your email list. Whatever it is that you're looking for can really happen here. You have the biggest opportunity for that. And it also might be someone who's sharing it with someone else, which is why your listener growth consistently growing, because they're sharing your episode with someone they love and that person's then subscribing.

That is so meaningful, that kind of growth. Because those are. That's real.

That's real. You've had an impact. You've made a difference in one person's life. You've given them some tip, something, some resource that they can actually use. That to me is like the most fulfilling opportunity that you can have on a podcast. And so that's amazing that what they have there. But if I didn't tell them to go look for that and. Cause they weren't one of my clients. But I just met them at an event and I mentioned that they should go check it. And that's when they called me afterwards, immediately after they checked that. And then I tell them what that means. They were clients. There was like, no brainer. I just gave them the biggest perspective shift on their show and how they look at that and where they find value. And we need to reset the mindset of everybody coming in. I love that this is where you're focused, that you're focused on making sure that we come in with the right one, that we get started with the right one. There's so many. Like, I don't want to leave anyone behind. My business runs different. And I don't have an opportunity to nurture everyone through the starting process. I'm better when they're already started or like, already, like, set that they're doing this thing that's easier for us to take on because of the way our business works. I love that you and I can cooperate together, that we can collaborate together. And one of those collaborations is really working together. You've got your Golden State meetup, and of course, we're here in California, the Golden State state. And you did a local group. And I can say that I have met many companies that would walk into that room and go, there's seven people, eight people here. This isn't. And walk out. I've actually seen that happen, Tom. And I don't believe in that. We believe that you are onto something. That first group of 10 people are going to be 20 people, 30 people that it's just really going to grow. And the fact that you are taking on the opportunity to create these communities that are actually going to meet together is going to make a difference. Because that passion that you talk about, that you have, it's infectious in a good way.

An exciting event. And that's another good example, Tracy, of not letting the numbers affect you. People that were in that room, I think we ended up somewhere around 20 people. And the people that were in that room, there were a number of big heavy hitters in the podcasting world that have been podcasting for a long time. And they showed up there and mixing in with a few brand new podcasters and this experience of ultra successful, been doing it for forever perspective with these brand new podcasters that were like, I'm just getting started and just starting and like that. The magic there was so much, so incredible. And then I got to meet you.

We got to meet in person, which is just so much more fun. Like, we've been chatting in email for a while and yeah, now we get to do this in person. I know that to me is, I absolutely love it. I'm an extrovert. Like, I can't help it. I love events. I love the whole energy of it.

It's incredible. There's nothing like it. But again, the impact of 20 people, if somebody gets 20 downloads on their episode, they're like, oh, I failed 20. But there were 20 high impact people in that room. Movers and shakers. That's priceless. We've got to remember that. I just feel like we have to remember that when we're podcasting because these digital numbers can be so nebulous and we hear all these stories of tens of thousands of downloads and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. We have to remember that every single listener is important and meaningful. And I just, I'm just so passionate about this.

And I think that this is part of what I see happen so often is that there are people who are sitting back and they're saying, hey, I need to do this on a budget. This is not a part of my business. Or this is a new side hustle that I'm going to start. I need to do this on a budget. And there's no reason why they can't. David's all into the really good equipment, but you don't have to use that expensive equipment to get started. Like, you can grow yourself into that if you want it later. Like, it's not necessary. But what is necessary that you commit to learning and doing.

Yes.

And I think the learning piece is a lot where people, they take one little piece of advice that they go with it and they think they don't need to learn anything more. And I find that the best podcasters are continual learners.

Continual. There's so much to learn and so much to know. This is something that David and I are really excited about with you because we have our areas of passion, we have our areas of strength, but we have a lot of gaps in our knowledge. And one of those gaps is, okay, how do you maximize SEO? How do you do all of the things that you and Tom are so brilliant with? Of all right, I'm going to repurpose this podcast episode, and we're going to turn it into a YouTube channel, and it's going to go on our website, and we're going to create a blog post and create a whole ecosystem around this one episode. And you and Tom are brilliant with that. That is something that's been really inspiring to David and I. We have a lot of areas of strength that has not been a focus for us.

Right.

Like, at all. And we recently moved over to potties as our host. I have to say, numbers have gone up.

But I think it's because we said, okay, we're moving over there with the purpose of we're going to take Tom and Tracy's advice and we're going to fix up our description. And I'm talking to a va right now about helping to ghost write some blogs, because as much as I love writing, I don't have a ton of time to do it and all of this stuff. And then you guys offer all of those services and you do all of those things. And so I feel this is where David and I are learning a new side of the business to us. And I think it's very exciting that part.

I think this is the thing that I see people who start out just like you, everybody comes to them and we're like, how'd you do this? Tom and I, in a way, started that way. We had our first 3D print podcast, and people would come to us and be, what are you doing? But when I'd explain it to them, they'd be like, I don't want to learn how to do that. Can you just do it for me? We ended up with, like, consulting version of it. Let's just do this. It's way harder for me to teach you how to do this. Let me just do it for you. That's our model because we were consultants. We were done for you consultants before was our model not to coach and not to teach. And I got dragged into coaching. Like I didn't even want the title of screaming I did. I was like, when my team kept saying, can you please stop calling the Wednesday because we have an open Wednesday. We every Wednesday at noon, we actually livestream it out to everyone. But with specifically for our clients, we have this coaching call. And I refused to for the first year even call it a coaching call. And my team kept saying, theresa, could you call it a coaching call so people understand what it is? And they're like, okay, fine. I didn't want to be in that place of coaching because it's involved so much more than I thought of myself as. But one of the things that I find is that those people who come in and they have this passion and people hear it and they want what you have and they want to learn how you did all of this. The problem is that you don't have the continual learning data and information. We've got a thousand that we've launched. So it makes it so that there's so much more information that you're going to catch up on. And so not being able to tap into the resource of what we have. And we're really willing to share that with other coaches because we can't do what you do, which is nurture them to get them going. I can't do that. It's not possible with the way our company runs, with the way we run. We need you to be able to do that. And if you can do that with better information, that's why this collaboration needs to happen. But I find that there are so many coaches and experts that are so afraid of not being known as the expert that their mindset is stuck. They can't open themselves to the possibility that my information might be useful to them. They actually close off that continual learning. And you didn't this.

It's such a disservice because oh my gosh, wasn't it Eidenstein that said, the more you know, the more you realize, the less you know something along those lines.

Yeah, the more you know what you.

Don'T know if you are a lifetime learner. You know, there is at no point where you've said, ah, I've learned it all because it's impossible. And we never claim to be the end all, be all experts. We have areas of expertise that we are very good at. I'm a great coach. I think I was born to be a teacher. I was born to be a coach. It's my dharma. If you follow all the dharma type of stuff. Every test I take. You're a teacher, okay? I fully, 100% embrace that. I love that piece. I love the coaching piece. I'm great at it. He's great at tech. We've never lived in a world where we had to worry about SEO and maximizing our website and writing blogs and doing YouTube. And we are like, okay, if we can get help on this part, if we can meet with people that actually know, then we don't have to slog through it and make all the terrible mistakes and we get to have people that actually know what they're doing help us. And then, yeah, that information gets to trickle out and we get to tell other people, hey, this type of stuff is important. And so I will never stop learning. I will never stop being very open and saying, oh, yeah, that's the part I'm not strong in. Let me bring an expert in to talk about that. And then we do that on our podcast all the time. Let's bring experts in. We're bringing a Web3 expert in. And I'm like, I know nothing about Web3 nothing. I told her, I said, I know nothing. And frankly, it terrifies me because I know nothing. So please help us understand. So it's just like there's no way to know it all. And to me, the joy of podcasting is being able to connect with people that know information you don't know, and then you get to collaborate with them. And holy guacamole, the magic doors that open when you say, oh my gosh, this knowledge, this expertise, this thing that you're doing is so great and so exciting and can we work together? Because I'm so jazzed by what you're doing and I want, let's do this well.

And that's the part is that happens when you set yourself up of I'm teaching this course or I'm having a mastermind. The problem with the masterminds is they're supposed to be collaborative.

Yes.

But too often there's someone at the front who's setting this tone, setting this organization, that it ends up being just a glorified class, an overpaid class at that. And that's not good either. And because it's not a two way street and I need to know where the struggle is on the other side or I can't do a better job of making sure my services are in line with that and what I need to do is in line with that or what data I can bring back to you to inform you so you can better make recommendations. I hear a lot of tips out there and I go, I don't know where they got their data, but their data is bad. That's not true. It's a path to failure. How can we fix that if there's no dialogue happening? That you need that data, you need that tip, you need the information that's going to inform that.

I know.

I just feel like this is part of what's missing, is that the experts aren't banding together and cooperating. It's something Alexandfilippo and I have talked about at PodMatch. He's amazing. Podcast SOP. Pod Pros is his company and he.

Cares about the pros.

And I think that makes a big difference. That when we start banding together to talk about where the problems are, we can actually help solve them for everyone. And the whole boat rises, the tide rises for everyone. If we do it that way.

Absolutely. I agree with you 100%. And it's fun.

Fun to get together. I have never been like in a community, I guess when I did contract furniture way back when I used to work for Herman Miller, I was always shocked at customers called you. It's the same thing here. Like experts call each other. You need to have that. There's nothing that we would rather do than gather in a room and chit chat about podcasting. You can't get us to shut up at Podcasters to shut up.

Yeah. It's a bunch of people who love to talk, talking to each other.

That's right. It's already inherently set for collaboration, but a lot of the systems are set to not work that way. And there are a lot of people within it that are harming it because of their closed mindset to that. And I'm so glad that you're working so much to open that up at the beginning before people get started. So that starting out, let's talk a little bit about those things that happen. I always do the three things here on our show where we're really talking about how you get great guests, how you increase your listeners, and how you think about monetization. And I want to see your perspective on that, because every time I get that from someone, their perspective is slightly different. And it is really the mindset going into that that makes a difference. Look, how do you get great guests for your show?

Reach out and ask. I don't do any kind of shout out. I need a guest and open call for guests. For both of our podcasts, we reach out to people that inspire us and we know Something about them, right. We've interacted with them in some way. It's following them on social media, reading their books, following their podcast, following their work in some way.

So it's meeting them at an event, right.

Getting introduced by somebody else. We do always on our guest intake form, have, do you know somebody that would be a great guest? And about maybe 30 to 40% of the time it's, oh, yeah, this actually is a really good fit. So excited to meet this person. Sometimes it's not a good fit, that's okay. But it's always finding the guests that there's no, I've never been shot short of having guests. There's always a plethora of people that inspire me.

People think that they will be, but that mindset of I'm never gonna be short of them is actually really, really. It can be your reality.

It's true. And doing a mix of super attainable people that you do work with, you do have a relationship with, bringing them on and then also reaching, saying, okay, here's my aspirational person, here's a reach. And I'll be honest, I told D, I came back from she podcast live, heard you speak, and told David, oh my goodness, heard this great speaker. And at that time, I was such a new podcaster, there were so many concepts you were talking about that I hadn't wrapped my mind around. There's so much in here. I took vigorous notes. I still have them, looked back at them. But when I found out that you guys are practically next door neighbors, and I turned to David and I said, at some point we are going to meet with Tom and Tracy for another couple that is in the podcasting entrepreneurial world. Not just podcasters, but they built their business around this. It's few and far between and they live like 10, 15 minutes from us. I know at some point we're getting together. And so to me, you and Tom were aspirational.

And see, and I would have been there a year ago if you had called me and said, hey, I emailed me, I've been like, sure, because you're local and because you met me at an event, you had all the right triggers. You just didn't even know it.

Didn't even know it. And that's so great for people to hear, is having those connection points. Going to conferences is a great way to get those connection points. I cannot tell you how many guests I've met at a conference. So that is great. So anyway, I think you and I are very in alignment with this. The People we have on our podcasts are people that inspire us. And so then we're able to have these really authentic, exciting conversations because we know them and they are inspiring. When somebody reaches out to me, there's always somebody marketing people. They'd be a great guest. I think I've only had two or three of those where I pursued because I thought, oh yeah, this actually would be a really good fit. So most of it, the majority is people that were I'm interested in and I show genuine interest. And most of them say yes. I've had a couple no's, whether that's because they're busy or there are a few people out there that are like, oh, your show's not big enough for me. Okay, that's fine. There's plenty of other people that my show is big enough for. That's fine.

You know, I can handle that.

Yeah, I don't have a problem with it.

And see that to me, if someone is in the mindset of asking me how big my show is, I actually don't want them on the show.

I am 100% in alignment with you on that. Okay. If that's what's important, then okay.

Even though I know my show is big, but I like not gonna. Yeah, I just don't want to share my audience with someone whose mindset is already there.

Oh, it's so refreshing to hear you say that.

And it's just my policies, if anyone reaches out to me and at some point, because I get publicists who reach out to me and they'll say something and. But if the conversation heads to this it all in there, I'd like, hey, I hear that. Is this important to you, the publicist, or is this important to your guest? You're proposing for my show. And if they say, oh, this is my guest requirement, then I'd be like, you know what? This isn't a right fit. And I actually cancel their appointment. And I've had them really push back on me and be upset about it. But I was, you know what? I just know the conversation's not going to go in a good way because that's an indicator of mindset.

Oh, I am so glad you put that in words. I think it's so important to have those kinds of conversations.

I do. And I don't want to take the time to have a pre call with people. Like, it's just not my thing. I'd rather have this spur of the moment conversation. And I'm researching and prepping anyways. It's not like they're new to me, but I don't want to do it. It's just not a part of my I just time commitment to podcasting. That's too much. But some people, you can get that in the pre call if that's what you choose to do. You'll get this understanding that's what matters to them and you can make your decision then and decide it's not a right fit. So I love that. That's where you go is you're like, I don't even have to worry. I'm gonna have guests, it's gonna happen, they're gonna flow. And I love that. That's so great. What about listeners? So like we already talked about not focusing on the fact that I needed to have a big number here. I love that your focus is. But how do you gotta do something to grow that? And you have to be advising your clients that there's something that they can do to grow that. What is the number one thing you go to as the easiest thing to grow listeners from the start? Just one easy thing where it doesn't feel burdensome to me.

This is probably one of my very favorite questions because I am all about authentic connections. There's all kinds of ways to buy listeners. If you've got the money, you've got the resources, you can get 10,000 downloads in an episode, no problem, because you can pay for it. That was never my purpose or my desire and I don't work with clients like that. Our number one downloaded episode on our podcast is 10 Ways to Authentically connect with your podcast audience. And because of that is the talk that we gave at podfest Expo on the keynote stage and we taught a course on it in our membership group because that's what people are interested in. Like those authentic. Because that's the way you're going to grow your business, you're going to grow your brand is those authentic connections. And it's going to be a little bit of a different answer for everybody. But it's really how are you going to most authentically connect with each listener and love on that listener? For us, having a very active and involved and engaged Facebook group and membership group has been for us that beautiful, organic, authentic growth. It is so wonderful for us because we know every episode we do meets the need of our audience because we are constantly engaging with. We've got a membership group, we're talking to our members all the time. We're constantly going live in our Facebook group talking to people. What are your current needs? What are you Currently worried about. We're not one of those podcasters shouting into the void, wondering if anybody listens because we are constantly engaging with our audience. So that's what has worked for us. Now other people have other things that work for them. You mentioned live meetups. Oh my goodness. If you have a podcast that has a good local focus, do live meetups get people on there, Go record remotely at a location and just watch the magic that happens. We did that. Where our third podcast that we're going to be launching shortly is one of those where we go to somebody location and we interview on location. And the magic that has happened. Can I even begin to tell you? We recorded at a local wine bar and a winemaker happened to be there that day when we were recording. And the wine bar owner was like, hey, do you want to talk to Aaron? He's here. He's the winemaker of the wine we're drinking right now. Like, yeah, let's bring him on. The connections, the magic. And when you have those local connections, you have this gorgeous growth. One of the people in our community is so excited. His podcast just got 357 downloads on this one episode that he did on his high school teacher. And the high school teacher is a beloved member of the local community because of that. His episode had three times the downloads as normal because it was local and it was beloved and shared more. It was meaningful. It's going to be a little bit of a different specific answer for everybody. But the question is, how can you authentically connect with the people that are listening to you? Because then you grow superfans and then those super fans share with other people that become superfans. And it may not be an overnight explosion, you may not be the overnight sensation, but you will grow.

I'm so glad you said this right now, Tiffany, because this is a perfect time for me to interject with your binge factor for your show, because this is exactly that. Super fan growth are binge listeners. That's what they are. And even if they're not going to binge listen to your show, they'll introduce them to somebody they think will because that's how they're in greatest service out in the world. And that super focus that you have on the listening experience, the being authentic with that, what you've built into your show is something I call accessibility. You made it seem like you were accessible to me, the listener. You made it seem. If I messaged you, you were going to answer. If I joined your community, you were going to care about me, if I listened to your show. You're showing such extreme care, and you're going to anticipate what I need next. And that's an amazing feat that you created. This intimacy and accessibility in your show that is your binge factor for both mastering the podcaster mindset and radical audacity and love and light is there's this intimacy that you have with your audience that comes across to the point where I want to share your show and I want to be around to listen to the next show. So I'm going to subscribe, binge listen, and I'm going to share it with someone I think needs it, and it's going to be and going to value it. That's an amazing factor that you've already built in, and it is something only you could put in because it's authentically who you are at the core of it. And you've managed to make that passion, that excitement, those things, that accessibility of who you are as a person come across the microphone, and that's not an easy thing to do. And you've done that.

It's very emotional to hear you say that, because it is so very important to me. And the fact that it does come through. Yes, it's very emotional to hear that. Thank you.

Well, congratulations then, because you've achieved your goal. If you had an intention at the core to do that, and it has happened, it is in the show. It's apparent. And that, to me, I think, is sometimes there is such a. The radio people, the people who are broadcasters, it's not authentic in the way that they approach podcasting. And I think they don't understand the ability to make that intimacy occur a.

Little bit of a disservice because podcasting is such an intimate form. Sound waves move things, right?

They do. You feel with your ears. We say this again and again. Malcolm Gladwell said it on the Colbert show early on when he asked him, why did you start a podcast when you're this bestselling author? Because you feel with your ears.

And it's really true. It hits you on the cellular level. It truly. We've all seen those experiments where sound waves move grains of sand into these beautiful patterns or.

And they can make you sick. Like we've heard it. The opposite. Right. It can be manipulated. Yes.

It's such a gift to me. It is a gift. You have chosen to spend your precious time, and we all know how time is precious. And if you are choosing to spend your precious time with my voice in your ears, that is an Honor. That is a gift that I need to respect. And if you then take the next step to reach out to me, which that's effortless, then heck yes, I am responding to you. You took the effort to join my community. You took the effort to DM me, you took an effort to message me. I absolutely, to me, that is an honor. To me, that is your precious time and energy you are directing at me. I definitely have so much respect for that. Yes, I will re respond to you. Absolutely.

I love that you say that. Just really do feel like that is missing. And a lot of overly professional shows and overly produced shows. And that's why I do think that the independent podcasters have such a great opportunity. And I know you do too. Let's talk about that last piece, that last question that I ask everybody about their monetization model. And you thought you were going to be a divorce coach and finding love after divorce. And I think that's a beautiful thing. But it totally went a different way.

Totally, 100%.

And I think people's monetization models need to shift over time. What have you found to be the best monetization model for you in the past and what are you going to focus on next year?

We focus with all of our students on creative ways to monetize. Because when you have a small show that classic monetize with ads, probably not going to work. It definitely won't work.

I just did a 90 minute workshop on why that's probably not in your future and what you're doing we can't talk about. Yeah, exactly.

I recently turned on a popular podcast. I kid you not. Five minutes of ads in the beginning. Five minutes of ads. I turned it off. I don't care how great your message is. I don't want five minutes of ads in the beginning. So that's not the podcast I want to have. Ads is 100% not the way I'm going to go. Will I maybe in the future have one or two aligned ads in? If it's aligned and it feels good, sure. But that's not my monetization model because my podcasting model in general is connecting with people. That's been our monetization. We talk about really creative ways for podcasters to monetize. When you have a small podcast for us, the number one way is creating courses, memberships, masterminds. Beautiful way to monetize your podcast. And that is exactly what happened for us. My first podcast was monetized before we had a thousand downloads because people were saying, how are you Doing this podcast. Okay, boom. I had 30 or 40 people take my $25 class monetized in the first month. Okay.

I think you could have charged more, but I'm just. I'm glad you didn't.

I had never charged for anything before. I was a. I worked for school district teachers. There's a whole money mindset there.

Yes. Totally different mindset.

Your entire life, and you're handed 10 paychecks a year that are barely enough to survive, but it's 10 paychecks a year, and that's what it is. And you're not supposed to want money or ask for money because you're a public servant. Oh, man. You want to talk money mindset stuff, Tracy, that we've had to work. There's stuff. It's like, my favorite subject to talk about because it's so deep and rich. Anyway, for us, we have a membership group. We teach courses, but you ask for the next year. So what has happened for us if we have realized that our niche is really being the bridge between podcasters and companies that offer services for podcasters, because these companies are great at what they do. Like, we work with Hindenburg right now. They're a recording and editing software. It's called a DAW Digital Audio Workstation. And they're amazing, but they didn't know how to educate people about how amazing they are. I can create a course in my sleep. I can teach people in my sleep. I love doing it. And David Tech Audio, he can talk about it for trillions of hours. And so us combined, we were like, well, we can teach people about your product. And that's what we're doing. And we are currently in a beta for a certification program to certify people how to be Hindenburg editors so they can be a Hindenburg certified editor. And this is so exciting to us. We're going to keep our helping people launch their podcast. We're taking that course down to once a year. We're keeping our membership because we love that connection with the indie DIY podcaster. But now we get to be this bridge between the podcaster and these incredible products. And here's the secret. Everybody listening. Every single company out there that creates some sort of amazing product also creates a problem. They have this great product, but it creates a problem. Hindenburg has this amazing product, and the problem is people don't know how to use it. It's a little bit different than every other digital audio workstation out there, and it's revolutionary, and people aren't quite sure how to Use it. We're like, we can teach them and we can certify them. And then when we certify them, we are helping them build their business. Our beta group right now is podcast managers. We're working with somebody who teaches people how to be podcast managers. And so we're working with her group, and we're beta testing this in her group. And we get to help these podcast managers build their business. And many of them are moms with small children working out of their home, and they maybe need five or six podcasts that they can run. And we get to help them build their business because we get to help them feel confident in their editing skills, and they get to put on the resume that they're certified editors. And it's this beautiful symbiotic relationship. And we're actually working with a couple companies where we're going to be their certification company. And it's a really exciting time for us. And as I'm telling you this, I almost want to throw up because.

Is it scary? It's so scary.

There's so much unknown, and it's. We're building the plane as we fly. It is utterly terrifying, and it is the most fun I've ever had, and it's probably the least sleep I've ever had.

Well, that's always a good thing. I know people. It is hard to live on that edge of everything, but I always find that edge actually really energizing. That's when I really know I'm onto something.

Yeah, it's great.

So good. I'm so glad and so happy for watching the two of you, and I'm so excited to have someone else local because I feel bad. I have a thousand clients, and 99.9% of them are elsewhere in the country. But I know there's a whole bunch of people right around here that are and thinking about it, but they don't even know about me, and I don't even know them. And I could be serving them. I could have them on my show, and I would love to. And you've made that connection possible. So I'm so glad you took the leap and did that.

Yay. Thank you.

Yeah. Biggest piece of advice, I want to make sure that you're teaching something here and sharing with the community. What is the one thing that you feel? And I can say the questions that they ask are maybe not the right question. What do you wish they would ask so that you could give them this answer? That's what I would love to hear as your final tip to Everyone.

My final tip to everybody is do the thing you're afraid of. As long as your life is not in danger, do the thing you're afraid of. Because that is where the growth happens. That's where the magic happens. Reach out to the person that scares you just a little bit. Reach out, stretch yourself, do that thing. If many people that are listening to you are already podcasters, how can you grow it? How can you change it? How can you stretch yourself? If you're comfortable where you're at, you're probably not growing which avenue, you're probably.

Bored, which is a big pod fade issue, right?

Yes. Is it let's rebrand and go in a different direction. Is it, let's work with a company to grow our SEO and make us a more robust, viable brand. Is it, start another podcast to talk about a different subject. Is it Start reaching out to people that scare me a little bit that I feel are somehow out of my comfort zone in some way, which usually it ends up like people are like, yeah, no, like we're equals. What's your deal? Reach out and do the thing that scares you a little bit because that's where the magic happens, that's where the growth happens and that's what keeps you feeling alive.

Oh, I so agree with that. Thank you, Tiffany, so much for all that you bring to the podcasting world. To what you bring to your podcast and your show. Mastering the Podcaster Mindset a must listen.

Thank you so much. And we're on poditize.

Yay. Thank you. I'm so glad.

I hope that my excitement for meeting Tiffany and getting to know her and David Seiss just comes across in this episode. I really hope that came across because there's just going to be some beautiful collaboration that we're going to be working on in the future. But I love this model of really diving in and getting that hands on approach from a coaching perspective.

I think it's so needed.

There are a lot of you podcasters out there who are just can't get started because there's something holding you back. And sometimes it's mindset, sometimes it's equipment.

And it's technology, sometimes it's just needing.

To have someone to bounce ideas off of.

And that's why these group programs are.

A great way to get inspired, hold yourself accountable, really grow and do what you need to do and get committed to podcasting. So make sure you reach out to Tiffany, connect up with her on LinkedIn, on social media, everywhere. You'll be able to find the links to Connect to both David and Tiffany in our blog post for this episode@thebingefactor.com of course, but make sure to do that because they're so generous with their information and they are so happy to welcome you into their community. You're going to want to join that as well as listen to Mastering the Podcaster Mindset for yet another perspective on podcasting. Make sure to check that out and I know I will be bringing Tiffany Cain back again to talk to you some more in the near future. Thanks everyone for listening. I'll be back next time with another Podcaster perspective and some more podcasting mindset here on the Binge Factor.

You've been listening to the Binge Factor Podcast. For more information on podcasting and videocasting success tips and tactics, please go to thebingefactor.com and be sure to listen to our other show for podcasters called Feed you'd Brand. If you'd like to be interviewed on this show as well as featured in Tracy's column, please go to thebingefactor.com guest and apply.

Sam.