This Year, Your Show Will Succeed: A Guide To Avoiding Podcast Failure

Want your podcast and videocast to be seen, heard, found, and rewarded in this noisy digital world, you are not alone. Join the nonprofit community at Podcasters United and podcast industry experts Tom Hazard and Tracy Hazard as they debunk all that outdated and bad advice you've been getting from the podcast gurus and find out what actually works Today. Get ready to finish Feed your brand with smart cut tactics proven to cast your original voice to the world.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to Feed you'd brand. I'm Tom Hazzard, along with my co host and better half, Tracy Hazzard. And you know what? It is New Year's Day 2025, as we are streaming this live and recording this. So those of you getting this as a podcast, it's probably mid January at this point, but this is gonna be an episode you wanna pay close attention to. Cause you're gonna get some straight talk from Tracy and Tom about podcasting in 2025 and whether you're gonna fail or you're gonna succeed. Right, Tracy? I mean, there's a lot to it.

Yeah, there's a lot to unpack here. First off, I hate to say it to you, but you are going to fail. 95% of you are going to fail. It used to be like 80, 85. I'm telling you right now, you're talking about 95% podcast failure right now. I just did the stats for the site for our poditize.com for our company, and I do it every year, and it has gotten worse and worse and worse year over year.

And so let's set this up. Tracy. Yes. We've been doing our looking back at the year 2024 in review of podcasting and then looking toward 2025. I'm sure a lot of existing podcasters are doing and aspiring podcasters are thinking of getting started in 2025. And we have some very important things to share with you from our experience and what we're seeing trending. And then a few things to discuss with things happening out in the world, YouTube and Spotify, that you should know about and how that impacts how you will succeed in podcasting. Right. Or fail.

Right? Absolutely. So it's just everything stacked against you to succeed because podcasting's hard. Like, let's be straight about it. It requires strategy and discipline, which most people do not have the capability of sustaining. They can do it in bursts, but they don't really do it for the long haul. Very few people do, which is why very few people are succeeding at podcasting. Un. They have a team they have a support system, but when one little piece of that support system breaks down, it's all over for them. That's what we see again and again and again. And the thing is, is that we provide a whole entire support structure, but we cannot make our clients record.

Or as I often tell them, I can't record for you, which usually gets a chuckle. They're like, ah, yeah, oh well, of course you can't record for me, but believe me, if I could, I would. Because a lot of times that is the thing that holds people back. Now, most podcast hosts, existing or aspiring, have something to say. They have expertise, they have a perspective, they have a vision, they want to share. They tend to be either very creative and visionary type of people or heart centered. And they like to talk a lot with other people. They like the interaction and the relationship of speaking with other people on their show. And then obviously there's other people that just want to give back. After maybe a long career, they've achieved some expertise. There are many reasons why usually the deficit of most people in this is they are not going to do it all themselves. They may not be as organized or not be able to make the time to be as organized. And like you said, Tracy, it takes a lot of planning and logistics in order to do this and to do it consistently, which is critical to success.

Look, we see it all the time. We see everyone come out of the woodwork on January 1st with their big resolutions and the first week of January, I mean January is our best sales month. It's been our best sales month since we started this business almost a decade ago. So we know you all do it, but what we consistently see is a drop off fast that pay the money, you commit to it or you record a bunch of never get them out. And like this happens all the time. I've got this giant batch of recordings, but I failed to send them to you. We get that a lot. So they didn't get them to us.

Truth be told, two years ago, I have a special podcast series for our original WTFF 3D printing podcast that I recorded. I've got a dozen episodes sitting there and I haven't actually put those out. Now, truth be told, the reason why I haven't do that, I believe is more because I have other higher priorities in my business and my life. This one was not a high, it was clearly a passion project, not critical to what we're doing. But I also don't wanna make excuses. I would count myself in that podcast in one of these that hasn't followed through with it.

Right. Well, we're big on resolutions in my house. This is something my dad always does, right. He always has asked you, starting at midnight, what's your New Year's resolution? And you have until the end of New Year's Day to say what your New Year's resolution is. And I'm big on that. But we hear that how people quit. And one of the reasons why I spend so much time really carefully thinking about my resolution is because I don't want it to be something that I quit. It is not in my vocabulary. It is not something that I do easily. So I actually started a month ago thinking about what I wanted to accomplish this year. And what I wanted to accomplish was to get tomorrow to run on his.

Own, to do everything for the podcast myself.

The coaching call, really this call. Because we have two podcasts. So. Yeah, like what becomes feed your brand? I wanted you to be able to run on your own. So I've been prepping you up for 30 days for me to turn it off, like to stop babying you and doing the support system for it. Because reality is, is that this is your job, not my job in the company. Because this is customer interface. This is supporting our existing client base. It's seeking new clients. Right. It's a sal and marketing position. And that's your role in the company. And I have other plans, especially now in 2025, big things that we are working on on the AI and tech side that I need to concentrate my energy on. So I can't devote the time. Can I show up and do 30 minutes? Absolutely. And I will show up for people because I love to talk about podcasting, but I don't have time to do the hours of work that it takes to prep this up, plan it, prepare it. I mean, Tom just saw it. We decided to go live because I had given him this task of pre recording something for today to stream live.

On New Year's Day.

Right. And I'd been reminding you every week, which I don't want to have to do the reminders, but I did. I reminded you every week, and I reminded you three times in the last week that we still needed the recording in order for this to be prepared and running. And I was still going to technically prepare it and run it for you so that I didn't have to teach you how to do that this week. But. Cause that takes time. You saw me, it took me 20 minutes to do it off the cuff. And that wasn't even really taking my Time to do it right.

Normally you would spend more time doing it right.

I would spend much more time coming up with a really great thumbnail. I aied it and just popped something in. But, I mean, I did it pretty fast, but it still took me 20 minutes. So that's why we didn't start till 30 minutes after the hour today, because it wasn't prepared. But Tom didn't plan anything, record anything, or do anything. And then when the alarm went off that there's supposed to be a recording in 30 minutes, he went, how often does that happen to you?

Oh, I bet it happens a lot.

Yeah, it happens a lot to people. Right? I say this not to like, Hammer.

Tom here, although you're very, very much enjoying this public dressing down, I'm sure. I mean, it is truth that logistics and organizational skills are my kryptonite. I do many, many things very, very well, but that is not one of them. And I have to work very hard at it in order to do it. Now, that's why it works best for me to record a podcast when I always have it scheduled on my calendar. And that was really the Achilles heel. I always gave up planning this recording for New Year's Day in favor of supporting another customer who needs support. Closing sales, as we're coming to the end of the year. Because also a lot of sales close in the last week, Right?

But here's the thing. Those things, whether you realize it or not, are excuses. They're good excuses, don't get me wrong. And they maybe are the right choices, okay? But they are excuses because if you need your show to be a lead generator and you make it a last priority, then you're gonna run out of leads. Tom and I, we started this podcast with get off the Marketing Rollercoaster. It's the very first episode we did in this podcast in Feeds yous Brand. And that is what it is that you are creating for yourself by doing that. So you think that it's a low priority because it's not an immediate gratification. I'm not closing a sale. I'm not satisfying someone and getting their problem resolved. Right. I am, though, at some point, it's going to be the biggest problem you have, and faster than you think.

And you know what? I hate the idea that I'm making excuses, because I don't make excuses in business in any other way. I absolutely hate that if I make a mistake, I will own it and I have to own this. That I didn't plan ahead.

Right? So the flip side of this is. Is that either you have to get out of your own way and figure out a system and figure out a support system, figure out whatever it is you have to do so that you cannot make any of those excuses anymore. And I've been filling that gap for you for over four years. And sometimes I put somebody in it to help fill most of the gap. But we lost her earlier this year. She decided to go on and do other things, so I had to come back to filling the gap. I can't do that anymore for you. Right, right. So you have to do that yourself. If you're unable to. Unwilling to. Because there are people who are unwilling to do things like that, then you have to carefully consider the flip side of what I've been pressuring Tom for 30 days on, which is to stop doing it. Tom knows this. I do not take something on that I won't do well.

You won't even attempt doing something unless you believe you're gonna do it very, very well.

That doesn't mean I don't wanna learn. I will learn something. I will absolutely learn it from scratch. But if I do not have the attention required, the skills required, whatever it is, to have a high likelihood of success, I'm not even going to do it because it's a waste of my energy and time for me to likely fail. Like, it just doesn't make sense in my scope of things that I could be doing with my time and my energy and my intellect and my skills. I don't have time for those failure things. They sound like fun and maybe I should be doing them, but that's not me. And so I've been planting the idea in Tom's head for a month that he either needed to step up and start doing these things, and I only asked him to do two things. One is plan topics for the month of January, because we plan them a month ahead and record the January 1 episode. And I expected you to include me in it. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. I have been planning some topics for January. We've discussed some of them, but did not record this ahead.

Yeah, but planning them and just making a list of them are not the same thing, because in our system, you have to actually give them to the team so that they can process them, so that all the steps and the technical side of it is taken care of for you. So you have to give the topics to the team in order for that to work.

Sure. But the first step is to come up with the topics for sure.

Right. But the flip side of that, what I gave you was the other option is to quit the coaching call to stop doing it.

Yeah, but I don't want to quit it. I enjoy doing it. And as a company, it is our primary marketing vehicle. And this is where I think this discussion today can turn and help illuminate opportunities for podcasters out there. Because you know what? You can hire support. You can hire a virtual assistant or have an employee help you with planning and scheduling and technically figuring whatever you need to do, even if it's reaching out to guests or whoever you're going to have on with you, you can do it. You can have someone else do it. You can have a service that does it. There are ways you can meet your needs if you can't do it all. I'm not saying all you podcasts, you need to be a one woman band or a one man band and do all of it yourself. You can get assistance. So I need to do more of it myself, if not all of it, going forward with the planning so that you're willing to come in and do it with me because I enjoy doing it together and doing it with you. Now let's talk about the good reasons why and what we have seen analyzing all of our podcasts. Tracy and this is gonna be tough for people to hear. This is gonna be some pretty straight talk because we found a lot of podcasts that have stopped publishing over the last year that are ideal topics to get an awful lot of attention for the podcaster, for their business, for their mission, for their goals, and they're just not doing it. And it's such a shame because there is a need and an opportunity for them.

So I see two patterns happening. I see shows that barely get off the ground. These are the ones who do not understand what it takes to be a.

Podcaster because they're new. They haven't learned yet.

You haven't learned yet. So there's a bunch of those. There's always a bunch of those. All the time. We call them mia. They're missing in action because they haven't even given the action a chance yet, which is a shame. So from those I see a ton of really great topics and it's such a shame that they're not out there talking about it because there's not enough content on some of those topics. And I know for a fact that most of those people, if hopefully they are doing something else, like they're recording videos or they're recording social media posts or doing something else, but I can guarantee they're not getting the long term benefit from any of those. They're getting short term, and they're actually doing more work than they would be if they podcasted. So it's a shame to watch that happen because I know they're spinning their wheels doing something that's very ineffective, and they're putting more effort into those ineffective things than they could have been doing podcasting. So such a shame that they didn't get started. Great topics. The other side of it I see is there's a lot of people who trickle off. We call it pod fading. Right? They trickle off, they slow down, they get busy, they skip an episode.

All of a sudden, it's six months later or more and they haven't published.

Yeah. And the real shame of those, Tom, and you and I both know this, is that they lose all the equity they built in their podcast in so many ways.

The analytics speak for themselves with the lack of listeners. The traffic to their website drops off because the keyword rankings drop off because Google looks at your site and, oh, you're not publishing new content every week. Okay, all your rankings, boom, they just went down.

I'm gonna give it to somebody else. And so you just gave all the momentum you built to your competitors. You really did. And you gave them a roadmap for it, too, Because a smart podcaster goes and finds pod faded, shows and maps out their entire content plan and just copies it and does it. Because your content, if it was ranking, if I just do a new updated version, because mine is current, and today you're done, you're out of there. You're down on the list. I just dropped you down. So you lost all your value because you couldn't stay consistent. That, I think, is the worst. Like, that just frustrates me because you built all this equity and you just lost it all because you got a little too busy. And I get it, but it was compounding for you and adding super value that not much else in this world right now is doing. Then the last group of people, and, Tom, this is a new area that I have seen emerging over the last two years. Those that are video first, that started a YouTube channel first, that had a TikTok first, that started with video. Some Spotify people who do that too, they fail at a faster rate than everyone else. They're quitting faster than everyone else. That the percentage is like 50% faster.

Tom and I know we discussed that today, and that was sort of the aha moment where it's like, you know what? We should just go live and talk about this. Right now, today, even without a whole lot of advanced planning, because it's so.

Important and it's of note. We're doing video, right?

Yeah, we are doing video. But we were podcasters first.

We were bloggers first, then podcasters. Right. Like there's a difference in the model of what we've done.

But I do think it's important to say we're not saying you can't start as a video show and then can't go to a podcast and succeed, but video is really what is getting a lot of attention right now in the media. There was a Wall Street Journal article that came out in November about how suddenly we're all watching long videos of people talking is the title of it. And it's about how these long format videos of podcast episodes like we're recording right now are getting a lot of attention. And the YouTube and even Spotify now is wanting to compete more with YouTube. They're all making moves to give those videos more sunshine, that they get more exposure. And guess what? People are watching them. And that's great. And there was also Spotify came out with a press release in late November. I believe that they're actually gonna reward creators like us recording video and publishing that video on Spotify and in paying through sponsorships and all that for the content and helping it be found. So Spotify wants to compete with YouTube. So there's a lot of really exciting things happening and there's a really big but here, Tracy. And I really want to hear your thoughts on this because you said something that I was like, whoa, that's amazing to me earlier today, which is that if people do video only, they're not going to succeed. And I think you said a few other things related to that. So can you help share your thoughts on this? I didn't say that I thought it was like that.

No, I'm saying that those that started with a video show first and then come on to doing podcasting. Because that's what we see. Because I'm looking at our platform stats at the end of the year and what flows through our system. And so who quits? Who doesn't quit, where the percentages are, what they started from, where they were going, what their plan was like, I look at all of that. And so the multimedia shows, if you want to say it like that, in our system, and we have, we call them audio only shows, if they started the podcast directly with no video. Right, right. And so multimedia shows, those that already had a show that was a YouTube or TikTok or Instagram, show whatever it was that started from somewhere else as a video, and then they move it into podcasting have been failing at a 50% higher rate than the rest of our video casters. The rest of our video casters. And I think it's because they have no strategy for a platform that they think that publishing the audio on podcasting is going to get them more video viewers. And so when they don't see any stats growth in their YouTube channel or they don't see any stats growth on that side, they think that's failing. And so they were like, oh, that's not worth it. It's too much effort. I have to submit it to a different platform. I have to do this differently. And it's just too much work for them in their minds, for what they can't see as a return. Because podcasting has a hidden. I mean, there's analytics there, but your audience is very muted. Like, they don't comment. They don't do the things that they would normally do in YouTube or TikTok or other places where you might be publishing video like that. So they're not getting the gratification of the boost and the comments and the likes and the shares on the podcasting side. And so to them, it seems like it's not worth it. Because this is what I check, and I just want to be really clear here. So when I see somebody stop publishing, I first check to see if they kept their show somewhere. Did they just leave us or did they leave podcasting altogether?

Oh, sure. Most of the time they've just stopped podcasting altogether.

They've left podcasting, I mean, because I could count on one hand the people who, like, left us because they were unhappy with whatever it was. And over a course of an entire year, I know their actual names, that they went to go podcast with somebody else. And we had it happen three times in the last year where they left, went somewhere else, and came back and came back.

Yes.

Right. And so a couple of them came back very apologetically.

Oh. One of them said she felt like she was coming back to her boyfriend after having broken up earlier in the year. It was kind of funny and it wasn't meant in a creepy way. I mean, she. It was a woman who said this to me. And because it was the situation where the board of their company, someone on the board had experience with another podcast company and used their influence and said, no, we're going to go with that company now. And they went and it was another failure. And then she came back Kind of sheepish. Like, I'm really sorry, can I please come back? I'm like, of course you can come back. We'd be love to support you again.

Right? And that's the thing, is our support is if you keep podcasting, we don't care. Like, if you need to leave us to go do that, then go do it. We have one of our best podcasters that we've ever had who's like close to a thousand episodes and he's taken it in house. I'm fine with that because he's still podcasting. Like, it's great.

Well, he's still hosted on our platform, but he's not doing done for your production anymore. But that's great.

But I don't care. He's still podcasting, right? Like, that's what really matters to us. At the end of the day, that's what we care about. But when I looked at the stats, they'd all quit. But we see that the YouTubers that I was tracking kept their YouTube show but dumped their podcast. They literally dumped it. Because we have people who, like, abandoned their show on our platform. And about 75% of the abandoned shows, only their podcast was abandoned, not their video show.

That's so strange because it's a terrible waste in many ways. But I find most podcasters who are publishing full length video versions of their podcasts on YouTube. They almost all have larger podcast listening audiences than they do views of their videos on YouTube. There may be a couple exceptions, but most of them, they get more exposure and serve more people through the audio than they do the video.

All right, my goal here today is to just really talk to you about thinking about this from a different perspective. If you cannot stay committed in 2025, in this next year, whatever year it is that you're listening to this, because you could be listening to this in future years. But if you can't stay committed, then don't do it. We don't need more quitters in the podcasting industry. It's giving podcasting a bad name. I want people who succeed. I want people who can stay committed. I want people with some discipline. And if you can't do those things but this is important to you, then get some help. Like, it's like, I don't know how much more to kick you. Like, Tom and I lay it all out. We tell you exactly how to do it. You want to know exactly how I go live every week? I've shared it with you. You want to know exactly how we title our episodes and Plan our content. I've shared it with you. We share that with you every week. And if there's something that you don't know and you want to know, tell us and we'll share it with you. We don't keep any of that hidden. And none of the partners on Podcasters United keep anything hidden either. They're out there to share. Fran Acero, our YouTube partner, absolutely brilliant. She tells you the nitty gritty of everything. Like, sometimes I look at the content, I'm like, do I really need five videos on how to create end cards? I guess I do, like, five different ways to do it. So we have all that granular stuff. And if you don't have time to watch it, give it to your assistant, tell them to come and use our stuff. Send your assistant into our coaching call. This is what we do. We actually do train assistants.

We have lots of customers that do that. And because the host might be the CEO of a company and they just don't have time to do everything themselves, but they still want to be the host of the show.

So thinking about those things, figure out what you're going to do different when you approach it this year. And if you're thinking about quitting your show, I want you to really think carefully about what you're going to lose if you quit the show. If Tom quits this show, he knows what he's gonna lose. I was baiting him when I told him to quit. I knew he wouldn't. I just wanted him to step up for how important it is to the scope of how he wants to be in the world, the type of company we wanna be in the world. I wanted him to step up and remember its importance so that he could recommit to it again. I didn't expect him to quit. Like I say that.

Yeah, I mean, I don't quit anything, really. I really don't want to. But the reality is this fuels our business, though, for marketing, and it really does.

It really does fuel our business. But this is what I want to say. Just because you don't want to quit doesn't mean it won't quit you. There's proof in the numbers. They think if I pay the money, I'll show up to the gym.

Oh, no. Some people definitely no, no. We have customers who have paid the money because they want to commit themselves. And fortunately, most of them that does commit them. But there are always people that don't. You'd be shocked how much money they paid and then just never followed through, having nothing to do with the quality of their content, the people wanting to listen, or the value of what they would have gotten from it.

So if you haven't figured out what my New Year's resolution is, is that I am not going to coddle anyone anymore. This is a year of tough love from Tracy.

The Straight Talk Express is here, huh?

All nods to John McCain, but I'm absolutely done. And we are going to make some announcements about some policies that you are not going to like. I guarantee you. We're going to have complaints from clients. And you know what? I don't care because I'm done with you letting yourself off the hook. I'm done with you allowing those excuses in and then refusing to see that you're making excuses. I am here to support those who are serious about podcasting. And if you're not serious, get out of podcasting. That's it.

Like, it's that simple for the majority of our customers. That also means you're not serious about marketing your company. And there we are, back to the marketing roller coaster again. All of a sudden, when people realize they're at that valley on the roller coaster and they don't have enough leads, they aren't getting enough engagement on social media, whatever it is, then they're gonna be like, all right, I gotta launch a podcast again, going as soon as possible. And at that point, you really have a much higher hill to climb to get out of that valley than if you had maintained it all along. And by the way, folks, longtime listeners of Feed, you'd brand here, you know that to get every value out of your podcast for marketing, you need to create a blog post on your website for every episode and a very comprehensive one. And that fuels your website for keyword rankings and traffic from Google Search. But guess what it's also doing, and this is really important, we've seen this this past year and seriously is people booking up my calendar and it asks them, how did you hear about Auditize? How did you hear about us? And I have had in the last two months a lot of appointments, say ChatGPT or AI chatbot, something like that.

And this is what's coming from us, right? This is what I am leaving, doing these day to day stuff in the marketing to go do this for you. Because by the end of 2025, I will have in place an absolute plan for those who are serious about podcasting. And that's why that's our focus. We're going to filter out those who are not serious, because the only people we want left Are people capable of creating content week over week over week and really care about getting their message heard? And that means that we've got it injected into the AI system and we're going to do that. We actually already are. But we're going to do it in a really big way, and we're going to do it with some big support coming up. So wait for those announcements, because they are. I expect to make some announcements by the end of quarter one, and then I expect to within six months of that, have the entire model proven out and completed and ready to go public. So it is going to be a big deal, but it is only for those who can do the work. That's it.

And truly, all those podcasters who are recording and publishing on a regular basis are going to benefit tremendously from this in very tangible ways, both in searchability and financially. Truly. So that's where we're going.

So that's the big vision for 2025. But it starts with you making sure that you are setting yourself up for success and not failure by making a clear commitment to your show and to the goals that you have for that show. I have high hopes because, look, I've seen it. This is not as difficult as maybe we make it out in our heads. You can make time to sit down, you make time to scroll social media, play games on your phone. You make time for all of those things. It is not that much extra time to commit to your content. And I know when you get talking, every single one of you is as passionate as Tom and I, and we said 30 minutes and we're already at 40.

Right.

Like, it just happens. So it is going to happen for you as well. I'm very confident of that, or you wouldn't even be thinking about podcasting if you don't want to talk about stuff. So you got what it takes. You're not going into something without a chance of success. You have a high chance of success. The odds are not stacked against you.

They're really not. Because guess what? The podcasts that win are the ones, more than anything else, that just show up. Right?

That's right.

It's true. Four million podcasts out there, 10% or less, are actively publishing new episodes. So it's not hard to actually be heard, to be found, to rise above the sea of other shows that just are not publishing.

So we've got some great topics coming up for you, despite what Tom hasn't laid them out yet. They're there and they're going to come out, and we're going to talk about platforming, and we're going to talk about more video stuff and we're going to talk about more of AI and how to get more out of that, how to make sure your podcast is found, how to title better. Like, how to name your show better. Like, we're going to do an episode on naming.

Oh, I can't wait. That episode is going to be so much fun.

Right? But here's the thing. If you don't speak up and tell us what you want, then we're going to do what we want. We're gonna do what we believe is best for our business, for our client base, for attracting clients. We're gonna do what's best. But if you need to hear something, you've got to tell us. So make sure you go to podcasters united.org reach out. Join it. There's a newsletter every week. I promise you it's really cool. I save lots of really cool stories about all kinds of things, podcasting and AI. It's custom to you.

It's not spam and it's not cookie cutter. It's really not the same for everybody. Everybody gets their own personalized version of our newsletter. And if you don't really understand that, just sign up for it, try it out, and you'll see. And if you don't like it a month or two later, you can always unsubscribe.

Absolutely. The only thing that it does is it will tell you what the next week's coaching call is, what the next week's topic is. So that's the only thing you'll want to look at it in a timely manner. At least scan it so you can see what the topic is. Because that's the only thing. Because if you want to show up and participate in the conversation, that's the only way to get into it. That's it. That's the only option we have. We have no other way for you to join our call unless you go through that newsletter link. That's it.

We keep it simple and it's just one a week.

One a week? Yeah. I'm not gonna bombard people. Gosh, one a day. I can't even imagine a daily. I mean, I keep up, you know, how much I read, and I can't keep up with that.

Yeah, yeah, that's too much. And I get stuff every single day for things I haven't even subscribed to. It drives me nuts. But the ones that I do subscribe to, I do pay attention to, because I opted in.

I'M a fierce unsubscriber, is what I call it. Unsubscribe to things that I don't have time for. Like, that's it. I'm done. They're out. And by doing that, I feel like I'm not failing my inbox. So you can create success for yourself. I know you all can do it out here, so I wish you the best in this coming year. And thank you for keeping podcasting. For those of you did it, I acknowledge your commitment and the difficult work you put in last year. So don't lose that value. You did so much great work in the past year. Don't lose the value. Keep it going. It's so worth it. This comes from someone who's done six.

Shows in 10 years and literally thousands and thousands of episodes over those years.

And every one of them still has retained their value, even if I did stop the show.

Yes, absolutely. But this is really part of the point, is we're not just a company that supports podcasters trying to tell you to do something that we're not doing ourselves. We practice what we preach. We are sharing from experience, and sometimes.

Some of us struggle with it.

No, no. And we do. No question. No question. And in fact, there was a couple years there where I was a sidekick on a podcast, and if I didn't schedule it on the calendar and record it every week with the other person, they would have never done it. I was actually, believe it or not, the organized one that was making it happen. And it really just takes a willingness to do what it takes to publish, to record on a regular basis and then republish. Right. Actually, I'll take that back. You don't have to record on a regular basis, meaning you don't have to record every week. You can record one day a month or a few hours in an afternoon once a month and still show up weekly for your audience. So, I mean, but you've got to publish consistently. Consistently is the key.

Absolutely. Thanks, everyone for being with us. We so appreciate you. And we will be back next week, even if I have to twist Tom's arm to get it scheduled. Thanks, everyone. Take care.

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