Unpacking Interview Mastery With Nicole Christina, Zestful Aging

Wish you were one of those influencers with raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazzard shares strategies, tips and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor.

Now let's join Tracy as she explores.

How to rise above all the digital.

Noise with the Binge factor.

Hey everyone. Welcome to the Binge Factor. I'm Tracy Hazzard and I have Nicole Christina today Zestful Aging. I love that title, Zestful. It has everything you'd want in a title. It's getting you excited about it, it's getting you interested in. I want that. If you're not there yet, maybe you want that. And if you are already there, then you want to be in a place where it is already zestful. So I love that title. I think it's a really great one. And Nicole Christina is a pro. Zestful Aging podcast is a multi award winner, is heard in 106 countries, has more than 350 interviews, and Nicole Christina's guests are change makers from from a variety of disciplines, filmmakers, writers, advocates, poets, musicians, scientists, athletes, entrepreneurs, many of whom are top experts in their field. She calls herself the Terry Gross of aging. Well, the podcast is also broadcast on the public radio in Syracuse, New York. And Nicole is the author of the book Not Just Chatting how to Become a Master Podcast Interviewer. That's why I invited her on the show today. She is a contributor to the online magazine Crunchy Smart Stories for Late Bloomers. And her show Zestful Aging is a whole lot of fun to listen to such a professional interviewing model from a psychotherapist and clinician. So you're gonna love this. There's something about really doing a great job with interviewing people. There's an exchange of energy and that's what you're gonna really see here with Nicole and I. And I'm so glad you're gonna witness this. So take a listen to Nicole Christina, Zestful Aging.

Nicole, I'm so glad to talk to a master interviewer. I love that master podcast interviewer. It's so wonderful to have someone think of themselves that way because I think too often there's a lot of success and masterfulness that comes over many, many episodes of doing it. But we gotta keep upping our skills on the other side of it. And not enough podcasters do that. They just like set it and forget it kind of like do their model and they're not improving those interview skills. And you. I've listened to your first episode and I listened to your 300th and something. There's a big difference there. And yet interviewing is your profession.

Hmm. I love interviewing. And I think I really started to gain confidence when I was interviewing these people who have been interviewed a lot. And I kept getting the feedback. That was the best interview I've ever had. And there were times when I just got teary about that. I just was like, I think I found my sweet spot. And it was just so consistent. And I thought, I want to pay attention to what I'm doing and what I could do more of and what I. I want to watch people who are really, really the big names. So I paid attention to people who were doing talk shows and I thought, what are they doing? That's. That I think is great and really evokes a connection. And what are they doing that's leaving money on the table. And by money, I mean emotional connection and more good stuff. Because everybody can talk on a superficial level. And many of our guests have done this so many times that it's in the can for them. Right. And so our job is to kind of get underneath the sound bite. And there's ways to do that that are not difficult. You just have to learn it. It's pretty straightforward. Once you know the secret formula.

I'm so glad you said that because my least favorite person to interview is someone who's media trained. I really dislike it because they work so hard to work back to their sound bites that they're really not even consciously in the interview process. That's what I found. They're almost over trained.

Right.

And. And it's terrible interview today. I yell at the TV when I'm watching a bad interview. It frustrates me. I'm like, that's a good question. Where's the follow up? Like, what are you doing?

Yeah, like it's your job, you know.

That and bad microphones in the pandemic. Those are the two pet peeves, the two things that got me yelling at the tv.

Right.

It's like, microphones are cheap, you know, like, get a good one.

Yeah, yeah, get. Wear headphones. That's right. Yeah, wear headphones.

Exactly. Yeah. Those are the three things that get me yelling at. But you're so right that getting under that is. It's the long tail process of podcasting where you have to be on for much longer than your five minute spot on Media that's really helped things, but not everybody's comfortable in that, and so we have to be better interviewers. What kinds of things do you do that really help you raise that bar? That's.

Thanks for that question. Let me start at the way. Beginning because. And now I'm going to sound like a therapist, so you're going to have to cut me some slack. We have to establish safety and trust, and the way we do that is totally unsexy and it's a little boring. But we need to come off as totally professional and totally. Like, I have done this so many times. You are in good hands. We don't want to leave our guessing. So is this going to be live? Is it going to. How long? What? We want to come in and provide real structure. And like, I totally got you now, particularly for me, because they know I'm a therapist. I want to dispel any idea that I'm going to get inside their head. Yeah, exactly. But I, you know, I've been. I've guessed it a lot because I have interesting niche in the therapy field. We can talk about that later if you want to, but I've talked to some really successful podcasters and they're kind of sending me these little emails and. And it's.

Structured professionally, so I send a PDF and I just go through everything and I talk about, like, even down to, like, apple pot. Earpod doesn't have a great mic. This is what you need. This is what you need. This is what you need. And my logo is on that, and everything is really polished. So I want them to feel like they're dealing with a pro. And I think that really provides safety and trust. And so what we get with that, I mean, besides being decent humans, is we allow them to be vulnerable. Vulnerable. Because they feel like, okay, this person knows what they're talking about. And so now I can open up a little bit more. And that's what gives us the juice, because nobody wants more information. We want some kind of human connection, and we want our audience to feel like, I wish I could be in this conversation. It's so juicy, it's so real, and it's so compelling. So we want to set the stage. First of all, I think that's really important. Important. And then there's some other techniques, and some of them you do so beautifully. I mean, I just come to it like, hey, I'm meeting a new friend. Of course I'm gonna, you know, like, it's goodwill. We're collaborating to have a really lovely conversation. It Helps both of us. Right. So we just start there and then. And I know this is so hackneyed, and some of these words, I'm like, I can't even believe I'm using them because they're so overused. But I am so naturally curious. I wouldn't care if I was meeting this person at the bus stop. And once I was taking a hike and I was chatting up this person looking at a map, and my friend said, did you know that guy? I was like, no, But I just like to meet people and find out about them. So that's me.

That's why we connect here. I can tell. Yeah, exactly.

It's like, of course. Of course that's gonna happen.

Tom, always. My husband always jokes that I've never read a book I didn't like, and I've never met a person. An interview that I didn't like. Right. And I was like, well, part of it is because I' really good screening mechanisms. And that's what I want to ask you about next. Like, I don't pick up a book or invite someone to my show if I'm not already curious and interested. So I already have kind of natural screeners. What do you have in your process of. Of curating guests?

I'll tell you what my husband says, which is a little embarrassing. He says, did you make them cry? Which is not my intent. But when you're talking about successful aging, we're. I'm of the age where life has kind of kicked you in the butt a few, and now we're talking about resilience. People do get tearful. It's an emotional. Can be an emotional topic. So what do I do? Exactly what you said. There are millions of wonderful guests. Only bring people on your show that you care about because you can't fake it. I mean, I'm not that interested in. There's some things I wish I would do more of, but, like, the financial aspect of aging, I have people on just because they have a really interesting little. A hyper niche, but, like, just doing, like, let's talk about finances and into your future. And what I just. That's not me. I'm much more about, oh, you're going to send Quentin to help these aging inmates by teaching them hospice skills. That's what I want to hear about. So I'm a clinical social worker. I like things that are off the mainstream and that are humanitarian. And I can tell you about some extreme examples of guests I've had at some point in our talk that give you just like, that's what I'm looking for. I know what I'm looking for. And unfortunately, because I love interviewing so much. We talked about this off mic. There are a lot of people who interest me in that.

You got a little bit of a backlog.

I got a backlog. I got. Yeah. So I'm really trying to. I say to people, please contact me in six months, knowing full well that's not even going to be enough time.

But finding those guests, I think when someone's about to start a podcast or early on their podcast or they haven't really kind of. I think part of it is when they don't dial into what they're most interested in and what their audience most interested in. I think that's where it falls apart most. And you've definitely done that. You know what you're looking for. You know what you're providing to your audience. You're very clear on that. How do you then decide this person's worthy? Or I'm gonna go, where do you go find them?

Well, they find me now because I happen to be. I didn't know this when I started, but this is all the rage now, talking about aging. Well. So I just happen to find myself in a really hot subject matter right now. So I don't really do that anymore. I've been doing this for six years. So I just want to establish. It hasn't always been this way, but one of my little techniques. And maybe everybody does this, but if I'm interviewing a guest who I think is really, really interesting and well connected, I will say to them, who do you know that would be a great guest? And people will send me documents that are like, you gotta interview this person. She works at the UN on aging. Here's her email. You gotta interview this person. She discovered this. Here's her email. So when you can. And maybe this is obvious, I don't know, but what I would do then is I'd have an email and I'd say, susie Johnson sent me me. And then your email gets open. And sometimes people will say, you know, I can't be on your podcast because I'm on Oprah or something. That's fine. But normally they will respond. And what they might say, and this happened to me once, is, I'm not your guy. But I'll tell you who is the guy who does this is my colleague. He's a professor at University of Washington. Here's the email. And then I say, so and so sent me, and you're in.

I love that. Yeah, I Mean, we don't often ask enough from our own connections. Like, I think that we get into the moment of the interview, we get into the. We get to the end of it and we just don't say who would be great for me next. And that's the perfect time to be asking for that. So I'm glad you do that. Now you mentioned and left us a little teasing with some weird guests, weird stories. If I don't ask it, I would be. My audience should be yelling at them.

Yeah.

At their phone or whatever they're listening on.

Right. I have a couple. I mean, I have so many that are so beautiful. And I look and they're like my. I feel like they're like my children, you know, who do you like best? But people love to hear the story and they joke me about it. I talked about it at PodFest. So I had played tennis for the National Senior Games and I found myself. Well, I knew I was going to be in Florida and I. I was made aware of a woman in her 60s who removes Burmese pythons from the Everglades. Yeah, so that's the expression I get a lot. These things are. They have eaten all of the mammals and they're invasive, they're apex predators. So literally have. They have changed the environment. And this woman, a lot of documentaries have been made about her. She's on nature, she's on pbs. They had a Japanese film crew come. She's like this sort of petite woman who doesn't need to work, I'm going to tell you, because her husband is a big time attorney in Miami. She goes out every night at midnight because these guys don't hang around in the day. And she pulls them out of the Glades. So I said, donna Kahlil, I am going to be in Fort Lauderdale. Can I come ride shotgun with you? And she said, see you, like, about ready to pass out. She said, yeah, of course. I'll have a volunteer with me. So I showed up. She has a truck that's all decked out in python skin. And she does this. People think like, oh, she's such a badass. And she is, because she just goes into these, like, places where they're also rocks and alligators and things that. And she, with her hands, scoops them out. And if you really want to see a great crazy picture, go on Facebook and look up Donna Kahlil, K A L I L. And she's really a heroine in that. She's not doing this to be like, look at me, I have this documentary. She grew up in Florida, and these predators are taking over the Glades, and they're really damaging the ecosystem. So people always like that one. And I still can't believe that one.

I have a thing about snakes.

Most people do. And, you know, she said to me, oh, the volunteer didn't show up. You may have to hold the tail. And I was like.

Like, I didn't sign up for that.

Did not sign up for that. And I just found it so fascinating sitting. We're looking, and I'm up in the back of her pickup truck with this huge spotlight, looking, looking, looking. And I got kind of bruised because it's a bouncy. It's, you know. And so you're hit. You know, my usual everyday experience, it was such an experience. So we saw a lot of wildlife. We didn't see any pythons that day because they had been mating, and I guess they were taking a little bit of a break. But it was such a. I mean, how would I have ever done that had I not been a podcaster, right? And I just felt so appreciative and in awe of her letting me go along. The other one that comes to mind, and I'll try to get through it without getting choked up. I interviewed a woman who's a humanitarian attorney. She's no longer practicing. She's in the Netherlands, and she has done all kinds of work in Sarajevo, in Sudan. She wrote a book on young women who were resistance fighters in World War II. They were Dutch women, teenagers, and they would lure the Nazi officers into the park and shoot them. The book is called Seducing and Killing Nazis. So this is Sophie Polderman's. She writes this book. We have a great interview, and then I decide years later, I'm going to go to Amsterdam because I have to see the Anne Frank house. So I said to Sophie, sophie, are you going to be in town? She said, not only am I going to be in town, but I just published a new book on these women. One of them is named Hani Troost, and she's buried near Sophie's home. And I said, can we meet up? I'm going to interview you. So I interviewed Sophie at the cemetery where this woman was executed three weeks before the war was over. And the cemetery is all resistance fighters. So I found myself with my little shure mic that plugs into my iPhone, which is very excellent if anybody wants to do remote interviews, talking to her about at the grave of this woman who lured Nazis into as a teenager and shot them. So, like, where are you Going from there is what I sound like.

My parents used to live in the Hague, right down the street from the Peace Palace. So, like, I know how beautiful that is and how historic it is. So you being there and doing your interview is just giving me chills because it must have been so amazing, like, to be able to do that. And I think too often podcasters aren't racist. Brave enough to go do a live if it's not where you do all of your episodes. And so I love that you kind of interchange between the two.

I don't have tons of live, but I'll tell you what I'm gonna do, and it's gonna drive my friends crazy. We're walking on the Camino, a part of the Camino, which is a pilgrimage in north in Spain in May, and three of my tennis friends, and I am bringing that little microphone because it's excellent. And I am going to just interview the hell out of every cool person I see who's doing something that I think my listeners would really appreciate. We all want to have adventures and feel alive and vibrant, and so I feel like I can share this with people and inspire them to say, hey, I'm 65, but I'm not dead. I mean, I want to have adventures too.

So that's what I bring. I think that's. That's so interesting for your audience to come along. And I think that this is really something that is a thread through all of your 350 plus episodes that you've got, that you have the unique ability to find an interesting subject and be brave about it, be brave about talking about it, be brave about inviting that person on it. And I think that's the energy of your entire show. Successful aging, is it? It's just this braveness of saying, hey, I'm good with this. All right, this is the next adventure. And your show is like that as well. So I think every time we get into a different subject and you've covered some subjects that I think everybody's covering, like one of your more recent ones I listened to was on the weight loss drugs. But you covered it from the perspective of what it's like when you're over 50 and taking the weight loss drugs. Right. Which I haven't heard yet anywhere. Very interesting perspective on it.

I wonder if part of what you're picking up, and thank you so much for that compliment, is as a therapist, I've heard everything. And so I can sit with a lot of discomfort. And that's what I noticed. Not to call out David Letterman, but he was interviewing someone. I think it was Kanye. I wouldn't want to have to do that. But, like, there were these emotional nuggets that were put out and then David Letterman just would just like, oh, let me tell you about my son. Oh, that, like, happened to me. Oh, that. And I was like, what are you doing? And this is something you said earlier when we were meeting. You have to do the follow up. And if I could just. It's the devil is in the details. Don't just take what they're saying at face value. There's. And I surprised myself because I kind of think, you know, I've been doing this for a long time, been a therapist for 32 years. I pretty much know what people are going to say. I'm wrong, like 80% of the time. And so when I say that, when.

It surprises you, right?

Oh, my God, I'm like, oh, I didn't see that coming. But, like, I will say things that are, they're not genius. They're just like, what do you mean by that? Or can you reflect more on that? Or how did you do that? Or say more? Or what surprised you? And that's where the gold is. Because they're. Even if they're not rehearsing hearsed on shows or whatever, it makes them like, say, oh, let me get you some new information. Let me be thoughtful about that. And so you're going beneath these sound bites. I am not here to, to offer sound bites to my audience. They can have that anywhere. I want to offer a really compelling and sensitive and thoughtful conversation that they feel like they wish they could, you know, contribute to.

When I was mentioning before about how your show is, that this is what I'm always looking for, that. I call it the binge factor, obviously, because that's the name of my show.

Right.

But I call it that. But that thing that makes somebody want to come back to you again and again, what is unique about you? And in this particular way, it is getting to that insightful level of a conversation with someone that we are not always skilled in. I mean, you're absolutely right. David Letterman was not very skilled in that. I personally think it's because his ego was in the way of him. I think he could do it, but I think it was ego there. That's just my opinion on that. I'm, you know, I'm not, I'm not a professional, but that's what I think it was. But you look at that and say the, in order to get to that insightfulness, you have to have that natural curiosity that you have. But you're looking for that understanding of how do I apply this to my zestful aging mission, my messaging. And so you're looking for where that insight lies. Not just insightful to just have somebody dig deep. Like, it's not just for that. It's to get to that point of what is your audience really interested in? And we talked about this at the beginning before I turned on our mics here. And that you're really always with this high quality content focus that you're thinking about how your audience is receiving, what you're bringing, who you're bringing on and what you're asking them that I'm sure has evolved over time in your show.

Now, let me give you an expression I bet you've never heard of because it's so kind of esoteric. This is what we used to learn when I was in training to be a therapist. Even hovering attention where exactly what you're saying is you're listening for like, I want my audience to be interested. Where am I going? Where have I been? Where am I now? And you cannot be scrolling on Facebook or whatever your scroll you. In fact. And I heard your episode about going video. Sometimes when I'm interviewing, my eyes are closed because I'm concentrating so hard on being both in the moment, appreciating where we just came from and then what, like little half steps or where do I want to guide them to fulfill the submission of how are you going to help us age more zestfully? So to me, there's so many levels going on. It takes full concentration. And people batch interviews. I'm like, I don't know what kind of breakfast and protein you're eating, but I cannot do that because it's a full body experience for me. And there it's for me too.

Yeah. We used to try to batch record because. Cause we did 20 episodes a month on my very first podcast on 3D printing that we talked about beforehand. So 20 episodes a month. Only four of those were interviews. The rest were conversations. And so between me and my partner. So we thought we could batch them. But I couldn't get through more than three without just completely being drained. And that is because if you're all in it with the attention span required to be present and future thinking and past thinking. Right. Like that is not an easy place to be. It's a very different energy level. I love that you bring that. And I'm very sure that's the therapist in you that is bringing that Thoroughness to it and that consideration to it. But I, I think it's really adds so much to your show in just that high quality attention that you're looking to. To bring it. It's coming through absolutely. In everything you do.

To me, I mean, there are many episodes where I have to gather myself because like I interviewed these two women and they were in their 50s, they're climate scientists and I had to interview in the North Pole and they got stuck up there in Covid because the boat that takes them there. Do you know the story I have.

Heard about them getting stuck up there?

Yeah. And they're no electricity, no Internet. Their hut is the size of literally a walk in closet. And I'm talking to them through satellite. So it sounds like that. Houston, are you at the end of it? I almost not. I mean we had finished and wrapped up. I just sat there and I got tearful. I thought, how do I get to do this? Because it brings a whole level of. It's just. To me, it's just why I exist.

You know, it's the intangible of podcasting that I really wish everyone would be able to tap into. And it's not everyone's forte. You can very clearly see that when. And I can hear that when I listen to people's shows that not everyone gets. Gets that intangibleness from it. That is. I don't know, it feeds my soul. That's how I look at it.

That's. That's it. That's the best way to say it. Yes.

But people are always looking for the return on investment. And we talked a little bit about this beforehand as well. It's like this idea. You have an ad sponsor, rich niche, right. Like the aging. Who doesn't want to advertise something about aging, but you've chosen not to go down that path. Let's talk a little bit about, you know, why you're being very careful about that path.

Well, some of the things that I. Let me tell you what my goals are first. And maybe that would help. I'm also streamed on public radio. So to me that was like, okay, died and went to heaven on that one. And then I really want to get my own show on public radio or public tv. So I have a little bit of a different goal. I work as a clinical social worker. I'm a therapist. I have a specialty in eating disorders at midlife. No shortage of interest in that. And I've trained a lot for it. So I do work in that realm. I went for a period of time where sponsors were contacting me. A lot of the stuff was anti aging. I'm like, I'm sorry, I am not about that. Other people are, but I'm not really interested and I'm so protective of my audience. I'm really afraid that I just want to be super snobby about anything that comes on my show because you know what it's like, it is really lovely and it's really hard work. I mean, you have to have some grit in my way of thinking to keep going every single episode. Sometimes I don't want to. I'm like, oh, I kind of want to go, you know, hang out with my girlfriends and knit or do some travel or whatever. No, you got a podcast and it's gotta, you gotta do it. So I guess thinking about, like, how do I do this? I went to PodFest, everyone's about monetizing and I thought, you know, what do I have to do to monetize this? And how would it look? What came to me, my weird epiphany as I was flying back from podcast, is I want to do less, not more. And to quote our friend Alex Sanfilippo, and I just did a little training for him, I want to have such a high quality podcast that it stands on its own and it's sort of the cream that rises to the crop. Now, maybe that will never happen, but I feel like my job is to offer something to people that they get anywhere else. I put my heart into it and that whatever's going to come, and I think that's going to come by way of collaboration, by the way, because I have people in that collaborating with all the time. I think there's a mystery there. Maybe this goes against your business sense and probably people are like, oh my gosh, you know, woo, woo, no, thanks. But I'm in a space where I'm like, let's see what happens. I have people in my local community who are interested in the podcast. I feel like there's going to be something that really comes up that I could never have anticipated. And my job is just to keep doing what I'm doing. If I had a sponsor that I really believed in and I thought was really valuable, I would consider it. But I don't want, for $35 or whatever they pay you, I don't want to be doing some like, hey, you know, make your skin look nicer. This anti aging cream, that's just not me.

So, yeah, no, I can, I can totally feel that. I am actually not a fan. I Mean, my whole business is called potatoes.

Right.

Monetize and podcast together. But I am not a fan of that type of monetization where you're giving away your audience. I think it has diminishing returns. So I think when you go for the quick buck in that at the long run, you lose.

That's interesting. And it's not that much money.

No, it's not worth it. And that's what we don't understand. We're, like, so desperate to make. And I think this is psychologically. I mean, maybe you're the expert here, so maybe you could answer what this. What this is. But I think it's. I don't want to be seen as wasting my money on something that's not making me money. So they want to look to offset that and break even so that they can justify doing something that they love. Right. Or that they're enjoying. And. And I was like, who are you? I mean, most of my clients are solopreneurs. Who are you justifying their money spend to? Like, you don't have to. And that's really where I think the mindset of it comes in is like, where are we focused? And I love that your focus is really on that audience first, but that you also have a mission.

Yeah, I think that's right.

You know where it wants to go. And that requires a high quality level. You don't get on National Public Radio without it being valuable.

And, you know, also, like, I anticipated you saying, what would you recommend? I'm going to tell you, this is my new nickname, Dog with a Bone. I mean, I'm like, if there's somebody I want to meet, I'm advertising in one of my local towns because everyone here says us full ager. And I just noticed that this woman had an account in this other market. So I contacted her. She's like, oh, yeah, sure, let me hook you up, up. And like, I just am a dog with a bone. And I just don't give up. Maybe when I should. But I've just found that if you ask, people say, oh, yeah, sure. And that's been. My model is like, it's all about goodwill. It's not about, like, taking, taking, taking, but it's. It really feels like. It feels very mutual and very respectful, and that's how I want to operate.

That's how I love about the podcast phase. It does feel very respectful and mutual. Like. Like we're all in it together to grow this beautiful ecosystem. And the ones who are really working it deserve respect. So that's why I love that now. You could have written a book about all those funny and interesting stories of people you've interviewed around the topic of zestful aging. But you chose to write the book, not just chatting. Master podcast interviewer. Like, tell me a little bit about why you made that choice.

I felt like, you know, how in podcasting and probably in other places, too, it's like, you've got this material. How do you want to use it in all of the ways? Right? And I was like, I've been a therapist for a long time. I know how to help people feel at ease. I know how to be supportive. I know how to help them talk about hard stuff. Why don't I use what I know and offer that podcasting community? The other thing that I will. Will say, and maybe you're like, yeah, no kidding. But I give this book out when I went to PodFest. I just started giving them out there. You know, they're small little paperbacks. They don't cost me that much. But I found that people really appreciate, and, you know, they asked you to sign it. And I just feel like it's a great way to start a relationship if that's the kind of stuff they're interested. So I was on a panel at PodFest and sort of talking about some different stuff, and then I said, hey, if anyone wants a book, I'm giving them away. I mean, it like a line at my. You know, they say, free, whatever. Hopefully I thought it'd be valuable. And I just. I just find it to be such a great conversation starter and a goodwill builder. So that's how I met Alex. I saw his stuff, and I'm like, I'm sending this guy a book down in Florida. And so that's how I got to know him and be on his show and all of that stuff.

Right? And that's how we met, of course. Bon Pod batch.

Yeah, of course. Of course. And which is a brilliant and elegant.

Oh, it's a great solution. Yeah. And so what I like, really about it, for me, is I get to meet someone in an interesting different niche. So, like, I'm pretty picky. Like, I really. I mean, it serves us up. I don't even know, like, seven or six or seven a day, and I probably pick three or four a month. Like, I. So I'm really picky because I'm looking for somebody who's got an interesting podcast area I've never discussed before or got an interesting perspective that I haven't heard before. That's what I'M looking for. So I use it as that sort of creative kind of like, who have I missed that I haven't even considered that hasn't come across my desk before. Right. That's how I use it. But it really is wonderful that you put this book out because I think your perspective on being a person who's asked questions for a living helps all of us up our game. And that, I think is essential to this idea of being curious and continually learning. Podcasting is inherently flexible. And my favorite part is that our audience comes along with it, us. And so we're at a different day and time than they were when they first started listening to you 300 plus episodes ago.

Right.

And they're here and they're waiting for that next thing. What are they ready for? Maybe your audience is ready to start putting their voice out there. Who knows? So they want to follow in your podcast footsteps. It happens all the time.

Yeah. The other thing I'm doing just for fun is, of course, you know, and I've heard you talk about it on your podcast, is guesting is the thing. Right. Everybody wants to guest. Well, I've guessed it a lot because I have this kind of obscure specialty, and I realized that people need help prepping for guests guesting. And I don't mean in the way maybe a lot of people do. I'm not about anxiety. I'm talking about how do you show up in a way where you feel confident but also relaxed. And what does it feel like to have an exchange of ideas? This isn't about me, like, telling you everything I know about whatever I do. It's about us feeling both energized at the end of the conversation. So I thought, like, that's kind of a fun thing, is to prep people for interviews in a way that, as you say, is a bit of a different perspective. A lot of people get really nervous. So I talk about. Let's talk about anxiety reduction before you go on. What's that going to look like?

Wow, I love that idea. Because, you know, sometimes you don't really think about that idea that I got to work more on myself.

Right.

I gotta work a little bit on myself first. And keep going back to that David Letterman conversation.

Yes, that's right.

Well, Nicole, Christina, Zestful aging, one of the most wonderful podcasts I've come across in a long time. And I listen to a lot of podcasts. I have now recommended it to about five or six other people because, I mean, if it's not obvious, I am in your age. Demographic, it is not obvious. Yeah, I get that. And I, you know, know, thank goodness for my beautiful genetics. But this niche, this conversation needs to be happening. And this is the beautiful thing about our podcasting ecosystem. There's a space for everything. And zestful aging. Such a great perspective, such a great show. Thank you, Nicole.

Christina, thank you so much. It's been an absolute delight.

I think it takes a lot to keep going. When you hit 350 episodes and keep going with interviewing and. And when everything about your life is interviewing, it is not the easiest thing to do. Meeting guests, getting new stories, pulling that out, not being bored with the process, that is a challenge. Nicole is just a master at that, as you've heard. I mean, it's kind of her forte, right?

It's the way.

The way she's been in everything she does in her professional life has always been about asking great questions and really building up to this. But I think there's so much in podcast interviews that is getting worse and worse than the rest of the marketplace that it's really refreshing to see someone who. Who is completely energized by the process along the way. So be thinking more about that as you're listening to her show and checking this out is. Be thinking about that this isn't just an experience that has built up over 367 episodes at the time we recorded this or something like that. That it's experience that builds up with it, but it is actually an energetic part of who she is and how she does that. So how can you be building that for yourself? And then if you really are feeling like you just want to master this podcast interviewing process, don't forget to pick up our book. Not just chatting. Master podcast interviewing. That is just such an important part of where we're going to go in the future. And anyone who can keep that up can sustain a podcast for a really long period of time. That's what I want you to realize from both listening to the show, reading your book, and checking out our interview here. So thank you for staying with us as always. I'm looking for great podcasters out there, so if you have anyone you can suggest, someone you've been a guest on, someone you have interviewed, someone that you want me to hear about or maybe you'd like me to know about you, make sure to reach out to me@podcasters united.org where you can check out where we've put my show, right. Where we've donated my show at Podcasters United. So go check that out and apply to be on the Bench Factor. I'd love to talk with you soon. Thanks everyone for listening. I'm Tracy Hazard and I'll be back next time with another bingeable podcaster.

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