Using Podcasting to Get Off The Marketing Revenue Rollercoaster with Paul Vogelzang of The Not Old Better Show

Wish you were one of those influencers with raving fans who binge on your every word, consume all your content, buy everything you have to sell, and demand even more. Then stay tuned while Authority magazine columnist and buzzfeed contributor Tracy Hazzard shares strategies, tips and tactics from top videocasters, podcasters, authors, and social influencers on creating that bingeable factor. Now let's join Tracy as she explores how to rise above all noise with the binge factor.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to feed. You'd brand center of Influence episode. And I am here with a really, really interesting podcaster. He's the host of the Not Old Better show. I love that name. I've got Paul Vogelzang, and Paul is a broadcaster. You're award winning journalist and you've interviewed sports, entertainment, health, nutrition experts, and you've interviewed some ordinary people who are doing extraordinary things. And I love that. And your message is that it's never too late to pursue your passions and live a life of purpose, adventure, and significance. That's pretty sounding. Paul, thank you for being here.

Thank you, Traci. It's a pleasure to talk with you.

So I do want to lay out a few stats that you have here because just to get people an idea of how good a podcaster you are, you did 242,000 plays in the last 24 hours. And this might be old, the information I have.

No, no, you're on. Yeah.

And you have 242 million total plays, which is just amazing. So how many episodes total do you have?

I've done about 400 episodes since starting about four years ago. Right.

And this list of prominent guests is just amazing. Octavia Spencer, Taraji P. Henson, Ron Howard, Judy Collins, Meryl Streep. You've got like some big players. Tim McGraw. Sully. You interviewed Sully. I love that. Emma Stone, Tom Cruise. You've got a ton of people here. So those are just some amazing, amazing access and interesting stories I bet you got there.

Yeah, definitely. Some of those names bring back just some wonderful memories. And not too long ago, it's really a pleasure to talk to these people and to learn from them. And I think that's kind of what the podcast is about. I'm learning. People my age are still learning and we love to hear from people who are doing the same.

That's wonderful. So how'd you get started podcasting? What made you decide to be a podcaster?

Well, I actually have a little bit of a history in it insofar as my wife Gretchen and I started a podcast Several years ago, it was the very first mom podcast known as mommycast. And then we did Mommycast Latina with Gretchen's co host, Paige Henninger. And that we did for about six years, which was really a lot of fun. I served as the producer. I definitely got the bug. After the kind of mom stories ran out, we put the show on hiatus, but I never really lost the bug, and then I lost my job. So I think all stories have twists and turns, and mine is not too unusual, certainly for somebody my age, but I've been a longtime federal government employee. I moved to the private sector and ended up in a layoff that was really just tough. Tough emotionally and then tough professionally. I was 58 at the time. I was about almost four years ago, and I could not get a job. The company I worked for had a pretty significant outplacement service, and I went on a ton of interviews, but I just could not get anything. And it got to be a little discouraging. But then I started. So I would go on a lot of interviews, but I just wouldn't get hired. So I interviewed one day with a young woman, and she was great. My wife and I have two boys, so I love kids. But this woman asked me just some questions during the interview that, honestly, I didn't even know how to answer. She asked me what my favorite cake was, and I just didn't even understand what that meant. Tracy. And I felt really out of it. I mean, I really felt old at that point. But I also thought, like you, I laughed at the whole thing afterwards. And I started writing about that, and I started writing first on LinkedIn, started getting enough activity around some of those posts that I thought, well, this is kind of going somewhere. And then I remembered my podcasting days, and I thought, you know, some of these people would be really interesting to talk to on a podcast. So that led to the podcast, and I've been doing it for four years. My first guest, my dream guest actually, was Judy Collins.

I have to tell you, that was the one that jumped out on the list for me.

Is that right?

I was like, she fascinated.

So, oh, yeah, she's really a very interesting person. In addition to her music, she does just some wonderful things in film. She's an author, so she really. She's got a lot of talents. And she was my dream guest. And I. I was able to get to her early on in the process of doing the podcast. And then within a year, she released an album, a new album, and her publicist called me and wanted to have her back on the show. So I've had a chance to talk to her twice. So some of those things have really resulted into some great, great times.

So that's some interesting things. But I bet there's something that's even more interesting that's happened to you from podcasting. I've got to hear the stories, because you've got some, I'm sure.

Oh, yeah. I'm based here in the Washington, D.C. area, and I get a chance to. And I continue to work for several government agencies, and one of those agencies is the Department of Defense. And so for my 61st birthday, so last year, just a little bit prior to that birthday, I got a chance to jump out of an airplane at 17,000ft with the US Army Golden Knights. And that was incredible. Initially, I thought, oh, this is going to be fantastic. This will be just a snap. These people will train me. And I really was very confident. And as soon as we kind of started climbing in the airplane, I just thought I made a mistake. I really, you know, and I was the only. I was me and about eight or ten other US Army Golden Knights, probably five or six guys, several women, and it was just a wonderful experience. They helped me the whole way. I jumped in tandem, so I didn't jump by myself. But that then led to some additional work with the Department of Defense, where I'm going to be flying with the Blue Angels.

Oh, they're from my area.

Yeah. So I really have had just some great, great. You mentioned several guests I've had a chance to talk to. So some things have just, you know, it's interesting as you start this process, kind of getting into podcasting and really kind of helping other people. And you know this because your podcast helps so many people. I kind of look at my podcast in that same way. I really like to shine the light on the guests, and I really like to have their stories be told. And with the Golden Knights, I wanted to tell their story. I just think they're a great bunch of people. They work really hard for our country, and they deserve to have some really good things said about them. So I did several stories about the Golden Knights because each one of the Air Force bases and joint army bases, they have their own kind of house in house publications. They have a radio station. Often they'll have a television station and they'll have a newspaper. And so I did a piece for the papers. I did a piece for their television kind of their network inside the walls of the various bases. And then, of course, I did an audio program for them. And it really got a lot of attention. And I still to this day get people who reach out and say, wow, you jumped out of. It's been a lot of fun.

I love that. I love that. That's so great. Now, you started this podcast, Not Old, Better show, after you'd already done one. So you probably didn't make a ton of mistakes this time around, but I'm sure you did when you were starting mommycast. So I'd love to know what was some of the funniest mistakes you guys made early in those early. A lot of starters out here who are looking for your advice, well, you'll.

Laugh, especially in many of your.

I probably made the same one.

Oh, my gosh, Tracy. So two moms, and then me, husband of one of the moms, we decided that we would try to build the very first website that we created for mommy cast. It's called Ruby on Rails.

Yeah, I know what that is.

Oh, my gosh. It was just. I laugh about it. I know. It was a nice nightmare. And it was a clunky website. It never really did what we wanted to in those days. And this was back in probably 19 or. No, probably 2003 or 4. So those really, really early days, there just wasn't a WordPress then that we could use.

That was a huge mistake. And then we started doing more and more kind of travel with the moms. And one day at an airport, I'll tell this story, and hopefully Paige will hear this and she'll laugh. She will remember it. Well, we would travel frequently with the kids, and so one of Paige's little girls ran through one of the airport doors that was prohibited, you know, entry and exit door set off alarms throughout the airport. I mean, there's not much you can do, really, but just kind of laugh. But the airport didn't think it was very funny.

No, I bet they did.

So they didn't like that at all. But that's, you know, that's the life of the mommy cats.

I love it. I love it. That's hilarious. So what were some of the lessons that you learned early on that focus your show so that you could be better for your listeners, so that you can give them better takeaways, that you could give them better lessons and better guests next time? Did you learn something along the way early on?

That's such a great question, because I think that's something that I really. I thought an awful lot about as I've made my way now into this new podcast that I'm Working on, I think, the biggest lesson, of course, and it'll probably be an. Certainly for you, it'll be very obvious, and for many, it will be obvious, but that is to really pay attention to your audience, really, that's your customer. And so as a result, we learned with mommycast that we had to follow up with the moms if they sent us an email. We needed to be responsive. And the same is true today with my show, the Not All Better show. And I think that that's given me this insight into what the audience wants, but it's also built a tremendous rapport. I think the other lesson that I've learned, and again, you'll get this, they're obvious ones, but the other lesson is to be willing to change. A lot of people my age, I love them, but they get stuck in their ruts. I think you have to be. It doesn't mean you need to necessarily embrace technology, because there's a lot of technology out there. But I think you need to try to experience some things, some new things, perhaps. I think that's meant an awful lot to me too, is to be willing to try to interview a guest that I might not normally be on my kind of, you know, might not be on my list.

So not everybody has to be 50 plus as your guest list, right?

Yeah, yeah. So my kind of guide in terms of who I interview somebody really appeals to me. Then I interview them and I think I'm passionate about it, that my audience will be passionate in hearing the interview that I do with them.

I love that. That's really great. And, you know, it's occurring to me, as you were saying that, did people ever question or did you ever question that? Was there enough of an audience who's 50 plus? Because I get that all the time. Like, do they even know what a podcast is? I'm like, well, it took my mom a little while, but she does know how to push the button on her phone. So did you ever question that?

I certainly did, and I had to. And you have said something that I really, really like. You said, you have to have more than hope. You have to have a plan. And so my plan initially was that I would reach out to a large senior organization based in Washington, D.C. and I would go see them. I don't live too far outside of Washington, D.C. so I drove in and met with them, and they kind of laughed me out of the room. They said, look, we've tried a podcast. Nobody listens to podcasts. Nobody your age is going to listen to podcasts. And so that really kind of put a little bit of a chip on my shoulder.

And I thought, I'm going to prove you wrong.

Yeah. Yeah, that was really it. And the corner turned probably about 12 months ago when this same organization and my work for them is online, so you can. You can certainly see it. But they reached out and they said, hey, would you help us with a project that we've got going on with your podcast?

And I just thought, okay, that I've arrived now. I was right. I love it.

Yeah.

Well, I want to dive quickly into our five tips because our five different tips for aspiring podcasters to be successful. But before we do, I want to point out to my listeners what you just did there. So you actually researched me, you listened, and you just quoted me back to me and what that does. And I have to tell you, very few guests do that. So I make it a practice, and I see that you do too, of making sure that I research my guests because I want to make sure that they know that I listen to them, that I know who they are and that I cared about because it builds a better rapport. But when it goes the other way and your guest does it with you. Wow. So kudos to you because that show.

Thank you.

That shows how seriously you take your podcast and how seriously you take everything that you undertake in here to making sure that it's going to be valuable. And to me, that's my big tip. Back to the audience of you just heard this happen and he did it. So please listen to Paul.

Well, thank you. That's nice of you to say, Tracy. Well, first of all, you and your husband Tom have done some amazing, amazing things. Not just the podcast, which is truly amazing, but your business. So it was actually very enjoyable to learn a little bit about you. And I find that I really enjoy learning about my guests. Not that I'm Matt Drudge here or. Not that I try to be some gotcha journalist. It's just that I'm curious and I think that that's important as we age at any age. But I do think that's ultimately, I think what bring guests back to the program like Judy Collins. And recently I interviewed Deborah Riley, who is the production director for Game of Thrones. She's won four Emmys for her work on Game of Thrones and she was a second time guest and she wanted to be back on, of course, in anticipation of Season 8 coming here in the next couple days.

Well, and some of people don't think that Game of thrones is a 50 plus thing, but, you know, some of us, I mean, I'm not quite 50 yet, but I'm getting really close. And some of us have been reading the books that long, so we've been waiting for it.

Exactly. Yeah. That's how I kind of started with it, too, is the books. Yeah, I love them.

Well, let's go into our five tips real quick. So it's not just about getting great guests and doing that, but how do you book great guests? So how do you find them and how do you get them booked?

So my first tip, and again, this won't be a surprise to anybody, is I'm a pest. I mean, I'm sorry. Super polite. I'm very polite, but I'm also. If I want to talk to somebody, I reach out a couple times, a couple different ways, just in the same way that you reached out to me and you and I have connected on LinkedIn. I use LinkedIn quite a bit. I use a lot of social media extensively to track people down. I'm a real. I like to think of myself as a bit of a sleuth. I try to really uncover different places where I might connect with somebody. And then as we were just talking about, I really try to learn a little bit about someone up front so that I'll send kind of an introductory subject line, interview request email to them saying a little bit about who my audience is and how they will relate to what this particular guest has to say. So I'm kind of a pest about it, but then I incorporate a lot of kind of who I am and what I do into that initial email so that they get a sense that I kind of know what I'm talking about. Good. I love that.

That's really great. What about increasing listeners?

Yeah, so that's another one that I think is you kind of have to try a lot of different things. And for me, I have a pretty engaged Facebook group page. I have a personal page, too, but I have a Facebook group page that actually is really very strong. And I've done a couple of Facebook Live events, and those get quite a bit of kind of activity and engagement. Of course, they live on beyond just that one particular moment. LinkedIn has been a really good source for me. And then I think the other thing that has really helped an awful lot. And again, Tracy, you know this well as a journalist and as a writer, I reach out to publications and I just volunteer myself. I just basically say, hey, look, you've got this wonderful editorial. You've got this great interview that you've done with so and so why not take it from the page and turn it into a podcast and then you can post it and I'll post it and we'll kind of COVID both audiences and you can take credit for doing it. So that's been a real boon too. And it's worked really well. Last year I was able to get my podcast onto PBS's Next Avenue site and that probably doubled my audience just getting that kind of distribution. So that's been wonderful.

That's really great. And that's really great advice about it because in that sense you were going into sort of niche publications and areas where their audience is clearly all in your world.

So really true.

Attracted to it. So that's really great. So now you got some nice looking equipment there. Because I'm on my road mic.

It's like.

Good stuff.

I got to do what I got to do, you know, so anyway. But you produce like a professional. And I'm sure that you had to get a system in place because you were podcasting before. There were lots of the systems that are out there today and lots of the services. So how do you produce like a pro? How do you make it easier?

Yeah, so I try to, you know, during the research phase of the work, I literally will write kind of my show notes right at that point I'll learn enough about the guests that I've got things pretty well in place for my actual transcribed show notes. And that I do right up front. So that saves me a lot of time. Then I'm not recreating from kind of after the fact. And I think that's been very helpful for me. At the same time that I do that, I embed links into those show notes so that I have those quickly. And then I don't go out and I make sure to have photos of exactly what it is that I'm kind of talking about. And I'll. I'm careful about photos. Sometimes I will use some Adobe stock if I don't have anything that's really creative. But often I'll use something that might have a copyright associated with it. And so I'll go out and get permission for that right up front. And that has really helped me a lot, I think, from the standpoint of just the pure production part of it. I'm not too sophisticated in the gear that I use for my editing. I use GarageBand and I think that's a tool that maybe somebody might kind of look down their nose at. But boy, I tell you, it has been a wonderful, wonderful tool for me. And it's super simple, and it makes sense, and I can do it quickly and I can turn out. So I end up doing all the editing myself, probably like you and probably like a lot of your listeners who are going to first embark on this. And that keeps it very simple for me. And then I think I really try to rely on social media to act as that kind of that distribution hub, and that keeps things very simple for me.

Yeah, that's really good. So now you've got this Facebook group, and you've mentioned that you have listeners who reach out to you. So how do you encourage more engagement?

I think the real way is to ask questions, and I do that through social media. I'll ask if somebody has heard Judy Collins's latest music. I'll ask if somebody has seen a recent film. I'll ask about, you know, people's opinions about specific subjects. Not that I try to turn this into a real. Like it's some kind of talk show, you know, on Sunday morning or something like that. I really am interested, though, in just knowing about people, and I think that that really lends itself very nicely to people kind of talking back, and that adds to engagement. And I think that then furthers. Often what happens on the group page on Facebook is people will just kind of talk amongst themselves. I kind of curate it a little bit. I kind of moderate it a little bit, but I leave it alone a little bit, too, just to make sure.

Let it be its own thing. I love that. That's really great. Yeah. So how do you monetize your show so you can keep doing this?

Yeah, well, and that's been something new. You mentioned this too. Early on, there was skepticism in many corners about whether or not this particular podcast would reach an audience that was kind of worth a darn, so to speak. And I really had a lot of different ideas about that subject. And I know enough about my age group and enough about some of the conditions that my age group faces after going through maybe a difficult time period. And I felt after I lost my job that I was kind of alone. You know, I felt a little isolated. And I think there is this real sense amongst my age group of maybe they are losing their communication or contact with close friends or family. And so isolation was something that I really have used almost as a marketing tool because I communicate with sponsors in a way that I just tell them, look, here's who I connect to. Here are the number of emails that I get every single day. Here's how much engagement that really Represents and I've also created what I call a one pager. It's just a simple 8.5 x 11 PDF that has a list of some of the people that you mentioned that I've interviewed.

We're going to put that up on the website. So that'll be up on the show notes and the blog post because that's how we do it. It's a full length blog post on feedyourbrand.co. so we'll put that up there so that people can take a look at that because it is impressive. I have to tell you, I haven't gotten one. That's some of them. They have little charts about how many listeners they have and things like that. But you're really showing what's valuable to the audience, like who you've talked to, quotes that have happened that. I think it's a different approach and I think it's a much better approach. So I applaud you for that.

Well, thanks, Tracy. I appreciate it. A lot of marketers need to be educated about the audience and they need to be educated about what it means to the audience to have some of those interviews at their fingertips and at their ease and how. And the other thing that I show marketers is just the sheer number of places where people can find my show. I often say, you know, it's like real estate. It's just location, location, location. I mean, everywhere that my listeners are. And so with respect to sponsors specifically, I've only really been able to get sponsors just in about. In the last 12 to 14 months when I first started.

I want everyone to really hear that because you're 400 plus episodes in and you really just started to get them because a lot of people come in with this preconceived notion that sponsorship is just going to magically happen and it's going to be easy and it's really not.

It isn't easy. And I think you got to love what you do. Passion counts for a lot. I love this and it is what I do full time. And initially I really was living off of savings. My wife has a small business that she owns, so things were, you know, they weren't quite as rosy as when I was working full time for other organizations. But that's changed in the last 12 to 18 months. And I think that that shows that if there's a listenership for a podcast like mine, people can do something very creative and passionate and find an audience too that they can monetize. And I think they're out there. I think Podcasting. We all know what a just a complete, exciting means of communication that podcasting represents. I think that sponsors are starting to learn that, too. There are some great organizations out there that you can plug into that will actually serve as a marketing rep. I use a couple. I work with a couple of those, too. Those have been great. They've actually become friends. And so I think it's out there, but I think it's important to treat it as a business, because the sponsor is a business often, and they're going to want you to be as serious about what you're doing as they are about what they're doing.

Oh, such good advice there. Now, some people are considering podcasting out there. They're thinking about it, and you obviously have had a little more experience doing a couple of different kinds. So are there reasons that they should consider it, and are there maybe some that shouldn't do it?

Well, I would say that if you have a business, you should do it. Even if you have 10 listeners, even if you're just struggling after six months to get 50 people to pay attention, it is still, I think, almost an essential for a business. And. And I know, Tracy, that you offer great advice on this subject, too. And so I really think that there aren't many businesses out there that really couldn't benefit from a podcast. I think if you're going to be a storyteller, if you're going to just do a kind of a solo podcast that you want to do as a hobby, that's great, too. But you brought up this really interesting point, and I think that that's. It's really true that if you start to put into an equation all the hours that we work on putting a podcast together, and then you factor that against the amount of money that you might make from it, it really results in a very low hourly wage. And so you have to really want to do it. You have to be super passionate in order to get it done. And I think the other real key to it is to kind of figure out what some of your goals are early on and then have just, again, as you say, so well, Tracy, and that is to have a plan to make sure that you have some goals that, okay, by six months, I want to have X number of listeners, or I want to have this distribution source, or at 12 months, I want to be able to say, okay, I got across these various directories. Some of those goals, I think, will really help people kind of take that first step. And I think if they're a business, I think they Ought to really consider it.

Yeah. And you know, you're making some points though, that there's some intangibles or impacts to your core business or to your plans or to those goals that you don't realize are going to happen until you start doing it. What were some of those things, the opportunities or the sales or the business opportunities that happened to you because of the podcast?

Yeah, I think there were a few. As I say, I certainly had a couple of low valleys just prior to starting it up. As I started reaching out to people were really positive and encouraging and I thought that that was just wonderful. In particular on LinkedIn, which has it probably skews a little bit older just in terms of its particular membership, but I would get these emails from people saying, hey, you want to talk to this person? And it was just very happenstance. And with that kind of just a tiny nudge or a little bit of an introduction from one person to the next, kind of like how you and I met, I mean, that paves the way for an awful lot of doors to open if you can just get some of those kinds of things rolling for yourself. And so some of it was pure kind of hard shoe leather on the pavement, but some of it was just a matter of things kind of one leading to the next and being open to. And I said this early on that I needed to learn how to change and adapt. And so I had to kind of figure out, okay, how, you know, I'm on my own, I need to leverage kind of what I do best, but not rely totally on me in terms of beating this big broad audience. I need to look for some help with some other people. And I wasn't shy about asking for that.

So binge listenable, like that's a term I use all the time here. You know, how to be binge listenable? Because we're in a bingeable world. Like we love to binge watch Game of Thrones as we were talking about before, like my daughter and son in law have binge watched back from the beginning in anticipation of Sunday. So, you know, we're all for it. So yeah, so that's happening. But is your show binge listenable? And if so, like, why? What's so special about it? What makes it great for binge listening?

That's a really nice way of putting it. Binge listenable is a great way to describe a lot of things. And I would use that modestly, humbly, I would say that, yeah, the show is binge listenable because I think I have A real variety of people, people that you might not find in other places. I work very closely with the Smithsonian and they bring in just some wonderful people that you might not not normally hear about. I've had a chance to talk to many of the Smithsonian faculty about various religions that I think are important to have people understand better today. And that's been wonderful. And I think those subjects are very, very popular with my audience. I also talk about technology and I think that's an important one. But I really try to have quite a bit of variety. And so in that way, I think it's very binge listening to. And I do find that my own metrics show that my own metrics will prove that people are paying attention for more than just kind of the 20 minute duration of a show. They'll bounce to the next show and they'll bounce from there. So seems to bear itself out.

That's great. So how can people find you besides your show on social media? You mentioned your Facebook page. Can you give me a couple of places they can find you?

Sure. Well, I mentioned LinkedIn and I'm there as Paul Vogel saying I'm on Facebook in a couple of ways, both as Paul Vogelsang and then also as the Not OldBetter Show. You can find me on Twitter as NotOldBetter. I'm on Instagram as Not OldBetter.

Good, you got it. Consistent. So the reason you have to ask is because sometimes it's not. And you also have YouTube though.

Yeah, you can find me on YouTube in the same way. Not old, better than not old, Better show on YouTube. And as I say, social media has been a real boon for me because I just didn't initially, I didn't have budget for any kind of marketing. And so social media represented that.

Yeah, so you've had amazing guests, like just amazing ones. And so. And you've had obviously some of your dream guests on, but you gotta always have the next one. So who's your next dream guest? And maybe if we tag them, they'll say, yep, I'm coming on the show because I want to be in the company of Judy Collins and Sully.

Good. Well, I'll tell you, my next dream guest is to interview John Lithgow and Blythe Danner. And so I'm really. They have a new movie out and I'm really kind of being a pest with a lot of their team. John Lithgow has a play going right now on Broadway. And so these people are, you know, they're busy as can be but they're also people that are ideally suited for my audience. And this particular movie is about a gentleman who is alone. He's a little bit isolated, as a matter of fact, and he meets somebody in the form of Black Dinner who really just captures his attention. So it's a lovely love story. It's the kind of thing that I think really it will appeal to my audience. So as a result, I'm passionate about it. I'm going for it.

There you go. Go for that. I love it. Well, if anyone out there knows their agents got an inroad, you message us and Paul is going to make it. And he will.

I'm on it. I will. Absolutely.

That's right. Do you have any last words for our audience, things you want to share with them that I haven't talked about, haven't asked you yet.

You've done a great job. You always do. Your show is wonderful. I guess the only thing that I would just say is getting back to your question about how should people get started? I think they should find things that they love in life and that will keep them going. And I think that does it in so many ways and just keeps you kind of focused and keeps you happy. And if you talk about that, that'll come through.

Well, thank you, Paul. I'm so glad you're here. And feed your brand center of Influence listeners. I just, you know, I really want to highlight here that there are some amazing audiences of all ages out in the podcast world. And for you to discount that because you're not one of them, that's a mistake. So when I started my first podcast, WTFF on 3D printing, I really thought I was going to have these young students. And I turned out to have lots of retirees who were in the IT industry before in engineers, and I had, like, literal rocket scientists. And I was like, now I'm intimidated because that's not the audience I thought I was going to have. But you flex with that, and when you find that out and you find out who that core audience is and you deliver to them, that's when you've got a great show. And that's what Paul has built here. So the Not Old, Better Show. I love the name, by the way. The Not Old, Better Show. You guys got to check it out. It's amazing. So until next time, this is Tracey Hazard.

You've been listening to the Binge Factor Podcast. For more information on podcasting and videocasting success tips and tactics, please go to thebingefactor.com and be sure to listen to our other show for podcasters called Feed you'd brand. If you'd like to be interviewed on this show as well as featured in Tracy's column, please go to thebingefactor.com guest and and apply.