Why Do Curious Podcast Listeners Make Better Podcast Hosts?

Want your podcast and videocast to be seen, heard, found, and rewarded in this noisy digital world, you are not alone. Join the nonprofit community at Podcasters United and podcast industry experts Tom Hazard and Tracy Hazard as they debunk all that outdated and bad advice you've been getting from the podcast gurus and find out what actually works. Today, get ready to feed. Feed your brand with smart cut tactics proven to cast your original voice to the world.

Everyone, welcome back to Feed. You'd brand. I'm Tom Hazard along with my co host, Tracy. Today we've got a topic that I think might be a revelation or a surprise to a lot of you podcasters out there.

As we're going through this, I started to look back at the ones that claim to be podcast listeners before they started their show had a lot of better characteristics. The other ones learned on the fly, figured out what was working, but it took them longer to become a better podcast host. And so that's why we wanted to talk about this topic today, because we can help you accelerate that by telling you what to look for by going out and say, hey, go research. Go be a listener. Right now.

One of the things I want to sort of qualify this title, this. The. What we're setting up here as a topic for today with is that we're not saying that every podcast listener should be a podcast host, right?

No, no, no, no.

I want to make sure that's really clear because the title might suggest that. But what we're saying is we are finding those podcast hosts that are also curious. Podcast listeners make better podcast hosts than maybe a podcast host that doesn't really listen to podcasts who isn't a podcast listener. And I can't tell you how many people we even work with that we know they're podcast hosts and they're not podcast listeners at all.

Right. So I have an interview this afternoon, as a matter of fact, with someone who's a YouTuber first. I can tell, because everything's technically wrong about their podcast and the way that they're presenting it through. So it's like, watch here. And it's got everything about the YouTube and it's got like the stuff that you stuff into the descriptions on YouTube is stuffed into the description of their episodes. And I can. I can tell that they're YouTube first. Also, once I start listening to their show, it has that characteristic of a video first model. So obviously they've been killing it on YouTube. They're doing great. They have a lot of YouTubers who listen to them. So they have a good subscriber base. They have a lot of downloads and listens. But I think they could be better because I think they're not attracting the binge listeners out there because of the structure of their show, because of some of these things that they have, like, technical flaws in them as well.

Now, Tracy, before we go on and talk about why we think curious podcast listeners make better podcast hosts, I'd like to ask you a question.

Sure.

So can a person be a great podcast host without being a podcast listener, in your opinion?

Yes, absolutely. I think you can. But I think there's some things that you'll learn over time that if you aren't tapped into, you aren't really listening to the engagement from your community, you aren't listening to what people are saying back to you. You're not taking that critique back in. You're not going to merge into someone who's going to appeal to the podcast core listener base that's out there looking for new shows, constantly listening to different ones that are out there boosting shows all the time. So you may miss them because you're not tapped in listening. But I think there are lots of broadcasters out there who've turned into really great podcast hosts. But they're inherently learn their media type. That's what they are about. So if they went from TV to radio or radio to tv, they said, ah, this is a different media. I need a media type, I need to consume it, I need to understand it so that I change what I do well already into something that adapts well in this media. Now, a lot of them have people who tell you that, right? They have producers. When you go from radio to tv, they. You have producers. You have all kinds of people there telling you what to do. Different, because it reads differently here. Our audience is different and they're there telling you and coaching you and helping you. But podcasters, all you guys have is us, right? All that you have is these commentary that are going on as to how this is occurring, or you have a coach who's done it once who tells you this, and that's where you can get into danger. And so those podcast listeners are your best guide. And that's why if you are already one and maybe you didn't have tremendous amount of broadcast experience, you can turn yourself into a really great podcast host.

Wonderful. Thank you, Tracy. I couldn't agree with you more. So while you can be a great podcast host without being a listener, I think we're going to reveal some things for you to consider that might make you think, maybe I should listen more, and it might make me a better podcast host.

So the qualifying word that I wanted you all to listen to is the word we put at the front of it. Curious podcast listeners, right? So a podcast listener who's just devoted to one single show, it's their favorite show. They're going to listen to Joe Rogan, day in, day out, that's what they want. That's what they come to podcasting for, are not the kind of people I'm talking about. I'm talking about the people who are curious out there, who want to learn, who are eager to get more and more information. They use podcasts as their source for it. It's kind of like, I'm a reader, right? And I will find new books out there. I'm like on top of whatever the latest business book is, whatever the latest fiction is, I'm out there on top of it. I'm in front of it all the time because I'm curious and I'm a reader, so I can consume it really quickly, too. I'm a podcast listener in the same way. I do it the same way. And that's what we find. Binge listener, pod fasters are those types of people, right? They're out there and podcasting is their chosen form of learning. And so by not tapping into some of those things we. Or not understanding that that's how they're consuming a podcast, then you may be missing out on some ideas and some things that you could be incorporating better into your show so that you can be a better host for those type of listeners. Because those type of listeners are active in the podcasting community. They share your show. They tell other podcast listeners, they're the people everybody goes to and say, hey, what are you listening to right now? Because you're not listening to the same five shows you've always listened to, you're listening to five new ones that no one's ever heard of before. You're on top of that. That's the curious part that I want you to tap into and I want you to be that. You don't have to say, in order to be a good podcast host, I have to listen to a show day in and day out every. No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying do research, be curious, go out there and check out what's out there and do that on a continual basis, right? Going out and looking for new great articles was a way that I made my column better in magazine. So being curious about podcasts is what's really going to serve you here and, and then listen and check some out.

Well, Tracy, let's help out our listeners by pointing out some things that we believe listening to podcasts from a curious perspective, how can that help them?

So you're not a regular podcast listener in terms of a, I'm going to call it a consumption model of learning, right?

Not as much as you. I have some that I really enjoy and I listen to and I do try to find new ones. Yeah, absolutely I do. But I don't consume in the way that I do the volume that you, you are a hyper consum similar to how you are with books, literally. I kid you not, folks, this week that we're recording this, Tracy has read. Well, I don't know how many total books you've read, but you've read two that I just couldn't believe. Wait, wait, wait. You just started that one yesterday, you're done with it today and it hasn't even been 24 hours, I kid you not. I mean, thick hardcover book, right? Which actually is odd for you. Usually you use your Kindle. So I don't really have visibility as to how many books you've gone through, but this particular week you've read a couple that are phys printed hardcover.

So now everybody's gonna wanna know what I read this week. So here's the thing.

They'll be surprised when they hear that too.

I think we binge watched the Netflix show getting organized, me and our youngest daughter Vanessa, age 7 and decided that we were going to organize all the books in the playroom. So we reorganized all the books in the playroom. And so these two books I happened to find in there, there were not our 7 year old books. They were our 12 year old's books. Who she didn't read them. It was Ready Player one and Ready Player two. So I started Ready Player two and went a chapter in and realized that maybe the book was not the first book, was not like the movie. And I better read the first book.

Before I read because we had each seen the movie, right? Which was actually a very good movie. But you went back and said, all right, if I'm going to read this book, which is not a movie yet, I got to go back and read the very first book, right?

Because obviously there was a character change. For those of you who have not read it, I don't want to spoil it for you. There was a character difference and I was like, I better read the first one now. So I understand what, why this book is different than that movie. So anyway, so that's what I did. So I consumed both of those. But it's the same thing with a podcast. When I go and I find one, that's what I do. I was like, ooh, this is a cool podcast. And then if I find out that that host has multiple podcasts, I'm going to go check out the next one and the next one and the next one especially. I try to go in the order that they launch them as well. But that's just because it makes sense. It has more continuity, just like it would if you were reading volume one, volume two of a book as well. So we're a series of books, right? So, but here's the thing you're going to really notice when you start listening regularly to instead of to the same show all the time, you're going to hear the things that constantly are annoying, right? So there from a listener's perspective, right? If it annoys you here, you're going to be more conscious of it and you're going to remove it from your show. And these are the things that we kind of lecture you guys on here a lot.

I try not to lecture. I try to make an informed suggestion, a recommendation. Now, at the end of the day, it's your show, right? So you can have it the way you want. And a lot of people, despite our experience, we try not to throw it in their face too much, really. We make suggestions that are coming from a place of experience and they come from here.

A lot of times people, right?

And a lot of times people are like, well, thank you, I appreciate that, but I'm going to do it this way. Nine times out of ten, they end up pivoting and changing this thing within maybe three to six months.

Yes, exactly. And we're trying to prevent you the learning curve that you're going to go through, because this is a fast forward experience. And that's why I'm encouraging you to go out there, be curious, listen to a lot of different podcasts, especially in your niche, especially if you're in the business real estate category, go listen to a bunch of business real estate shows. If you're in fitness, go listen to a bunch of different fitness podcasters, right? You want to listen to ones that are in your category because the listeners are looking like that. They're similar. They're out there jumping from show to show. You're going to find out what you do want to do and what you don't want to do. And here's one of the things that Comes up again and again. And like I said, we kind of harp on this. At least I feel like I do because I repeat it so often. Right. That's the issue is I'm constantly repeating this. But these are the annoying things that we know as listeners. But we also hear back from many hosts who realize after they surveyed their listeners, this is what they don't want anymore.

So the most annoying things are long intros and outros, because when you go from episode to episode, your intro and your outro are also like compressed together. So this is something you'll know. So if you listen to from go from one episode to the next episode in someone's series of episodes. So you start at the beginning and you're going to binge listen, for instance. Right. You're going to end up with the intros and outros back to back. So if you've got a minute and a half long intro, two minute outro, wow, that's so long. It's a super amount of time. And for some people who are listening while actively doing something else, skipping it is not an option. And you didn't want them to skip it as the host. Right. You wanted them to hear where to find you. What else do you have to offer? So being more concise in your intro, outros are doing a complete service to your listener base.

Now, while I agree with you on this point, Tracy, I do tend to believe and short as the word. I don't want to use a concise. Yeah, concise sort of short and sweet maybe. Right. You want to catch people's attention. You want to make sure. Yep. They realize that they pressed the right show to listen to because of the familiar with the show. That jingle at the beginning is going to be familiar, like, oh, yeah, I chose the right one. Good. I'm in the right place. I didn't click the wrong ones. But shorter intro, I think is more important than shorter outro. Because many apps, at least the one I listen to, and I know you don't use the same one I do, is that when I hear that outro start and I've heard it before, it's very easy for me to advance to the next episode with one little push. But the first time I heard the show, I listened to that long outro, maybe the first few times because I really wanted to remember, all right, where do I engage with the host more? What else is there for me to consume?

Right, Right. So this is the thing is like a shorter intro is the more common that we're hearing in all Types of shows, not just business shows, but in all types of shows. The entertainment industry, they're all sort of adopting it. We're hearing more of a 30 second intro as being much more common. Length doesn't mean you can't occasionally have a longer one. Like I recommend in your early days, it's okay to have a slightly longer one, knowing that you might shift to it after your first 10 episodes or something like that, right? You might do that on purpose. Maybe you take a longer version and you have an edited down version that you're going to swap to at some point in the future. So it's actually technically the same intro, just shortened. So if you've ever, ever seen a TV show, sometimes they do the long outro, right? They have the long trailer with the. What do you call it? The wrong credits where they have the long version and they do it only once a week. So like you could have a longer version that you could use on occasion when important, when you know, you've done a big marketing push, for instance, you can drop in that longer intro. So you can have multiple intro outros that you drop in at periodically. But because they have similarity, same basic information, same music, same voiceover artists, all of that is the same. That's a really great way to use it. Mix it up and not make it so repetitively long for everyone all the time. But we don't want people to skip our outros on a regular basis. And it is a very common thing to hit next episode. I purposely don't do it because I'm.

Well, you're researching.

I'm researching, right? I purposely don't do it, but I do do it on shows that I listen to for my own personal. But I've listened to it enough and if it is short enough in that outro, I won't bother to do it because I don't want to miss what comes up next, right? I don't want to skip ahead and end up missing something on the next episode because hit 15 seconds, 30 seconds or a hit next episode, we don't want to skip them. It's not a like easy science to skip the commercials, right? It's not easy on podcasts to do that. And we may skip something that's important. So most regular listeners don't do the skip button. They just don't use it. They'll do 15 second. 15 second might move ahead a couple if you're being too long winded, but that's about it. So we want to try to keep.

Them short, you know, you said 30 seconds. I think that's a good recommendation. I tend to suggest to people 20 to 30 seconds as a somewhere right in there that's ideal. But I can't tell you how many, especially podcasters, who started and then came to us later for support, how many I get that are 90 seconds even two minutes long. I gotta tell you, it. Listening to it, for me, it's kind of excruciating. I can see why somebody may not be having as much success with their show as they want to have when they do something like that.

And some of who've been hosted elsewhere, like, because we have potatoes, of course, you guys know that here. I mean, it's right, right behind our heads if you're watching the video. So you can't miss that. If you're hosted elsewhere. Some of you have ads that stream from the hosting service. That's why you've chosen to go with them. So you have this ad streaming happening. So you might have a minute to two minute of ads. I have some extremely.

I've had some with longer than that. And actually it's. In the last month, it's driven at least three different customers to leave that platform and come to Poditize because that service was running three and a half minutes, one customer of ads before it ever started their intro and then got to their content. And they're like, this is. People are switching, switching it off before they're even getting to my show.

But you have to recognize that Spotify and Apple are going to be doing that in the future. So whether you like it or not, that's going to happen. So for someone's going to listen to that and then go into a really long intro, you know, you can't do anything about it. If Spotify streaming ads in the front of your show, you are not able to. Somebody chose not to pay for Spotify Premium or Spotify Subscription. So that listener out there, though, is already tuned out before your intro even starts. So, you know, some ways to get around it. If you want to have a slightly longer intro is to have one of these, like, preambles on there where you're like, tease them in, get a quote in. Like, get them excited about the show, then do the intro. If you need to have a little bit longer intro, that might be the way to do it. Or if you're on one of these services where you need the ads because that's what's supporting your show, or you're in a network that requires it and you can't do anything about it. So those are some pieces of advice there. But you're going to get annoyed by it. You're going to find it yourself, you're going to find you're skipping it, which is exactly what you want your audience not to do. So if you're skipping it, you can bet they're doing it too. So these are some things that I find that they will find annoying, not worth listening to, and will happen. So if you're a listener, you're going to find that out.

Another one is bad audio. Audio quality happens every so often. Keep it in mind, this is frequent bad audio.

There are always exceptions. And if you're interviewing guests, you do not always. And actually maybe sometimes you rarely have control or the ability to improve a guest's audio quality. That's very unfortunate that though listeners will accept that. Forgive that. I mean, there's a number of different ways you can look at it, but if the host's audio is bad in general, it is a real reason people will go, okay, next, what's the next podcast?

There are so many ways for you to make sure that your audio is good from the beginning. So even if you're in a non edit mode, like you're really trying to have a low edit show, which I completely understand, like, don't we all want to have it easy? So you know, when you're in that mode, you can still make it better from the beginning. And so one thing is doing a good sound check at the beginning of your show with your guests, doing what you can to try to improve things on your end from that. But if you constantly have the bad audio, that's not okay. And if it is a case where you recorded it, you had one of those air pods or you were using, which I can't stand those, or some.

Other Bluetooth headset, right?

Or some other headset and it's clicking and it's making a really annoying sound. Get yourself an editor for that particular episode, even if you never done it before for any of your other shows. Fix the audio when you know it's fixable, but it's so annoying you're losing the content because that's just a way someone's going to dump out of the episode.

Fun fact. I've been asked to be a guest on a show and I went to listen to their show and the audio quality of the host was so bad and it was so raw and unedited in a way that honestly, it made me not want to have my personal brand associated with that show. And I declined to be interviewed on the show. So it can get that bad. Now, I don't expect that everybody is that bad. I think audio quality inherently is important to most podcasts posts. But if you listen to other shows and you hear the difference in audio quality, this issue becomes more clear to you.

Right? And it's preventing people from listening to all your shows. So even if they might spot check in, check one out, they're prevented from going further because they're just like, I can't put up with that. So repetitive sounds, clicking sounds, anything like that, that's really annoying. Popping things like that. Audio balance between you and your guest. Right. If you can barely hear the guest, but you're so loud, you know, you don't have the sound balance going on, that's another. And echoes and echoes do happen. I mean, it happens with guests all the time. Or it happens because you moved environments. Maybe you recorded in a special environment, but if it's a continual problem, then you need to do something about those things.

So a lot of times just a good quality microphone and you know, we have recommendations.

What good quality microphone because people throw more money at it is an answer.

Okay, fair enough. It's not about money, though. Quality is not in alignment with price for a microphone. So when I said good quality microphone, I didn't mean buy an expensive microphone. But as Tracy and I are recording this right now, in the last 60 seconds, there was a pretty loud helicopter flying overhead and Tracy and I could hear it. But you know what? If any of you hear it, then message us and let us know. I really am of the belief that none of you heard it because this microphone does a really good job of recording us and not any real distraction background noises.

And remind everybody we have the episode Best and worst microphones. Like it's out there.

It's on poditize.com you go to the feed your brand page there and just search on microphones. It's going to come up.

We have it even easier microphones and it gets you right to the episode.

Oh, does it?

Yeah, because I've had to say it so often that it got to be a problem. I've said it so often for stage.

You know, and I probably shouldn't know that, but you speak more from stage than I do. But by the way, another pro tip for you podcasters, if you have something you refer to pretty frequently, you. You can make a good referral link and help people get to it quicker.

Absolutely, absolutely. Super easy. What else is a problem? When you listen to.

Oh my gosh, okay. So, you know, interestingly, Tracy, when you were mentioning earlier about how many podcasts you listen to and that I do listen to less of them, in my mind, I was thinking publish podcasts that I subscribe to on my app and listen to. But do you know what I listen to the most in terms of podcasts? I listen to the first two or three episodes any of our clients record. They send them to me, and I listen to them and give them feedback. So I listen to a lot of podcasts, too, but it's a lot of the early raw ones because I'm trying to provide helpful suggestions. And I have it happen semi regularly where that very first episode someone is reading, I say, is beginning their show by reading a little script about, hey there, listeners, welcome to this show. And they read a little script about what their show is about. And I'll tell you, anytime you read a script, especially in the beginning of being a new podcaster, I can tell. I can tell. Even if I'm not seeing any video and seeing your eyes follow left to right, left to right while you're reading. If I'm just listening to it, I can tell. And your listener can, too.

Yeah. I have had some top podcasters that I've interviewed on the binge factor that are given scripts. That's the part of the process. It's like an iHeartRadio or their PR.

Firm has given them points. Right.

And they're pros at it, and they still do a bad enough job that, you know, it's just not. It's. The script itself is a. I'm gonna say it's a crutch. You think people don't see me because you're maybe not on camera. People don't see me. They can't see me looking at the words, but that effect is causing the way the words come out of your mouth to be less spontaneous, to be less authentic in its process. So what we recommend is bullet points. So rather than scripts, bullet point out what you want to say, have some.

Things that are going to give you a roadmap of just reminding you not to forget to talk about this, this, and this. Right. Three, no more than five bullet points. Keep yourself on track, but you should know your stuff and you should be able to deliver it. Yeah, you don't need a crutch because when you read it, it just comes across mechanical. And, you know, if you want another example, not only listening to podcasts, to try to experience that, if you just watch videos of politician, I don't care what your Political affiliation is. This is not a political commentary. But if you go watch politicians that are giving a speech, clearly there's a teleprompter and they're reading it. It is always more mechanical than when a politician is speaking what they know, what they believe, delivering something authentically.

Town hall questions, right? Like that kind of thing. So that's a really important thing for you to get across. Now, there is an exception to that, and there are some people who do this really well, but I guarantee you they take multiple takes and then pick the best one. And that is when you do like a little preamble that you want to be tightly scripted and you want it to have a very specified sentence that you're saying because it's coming before your intro or it's teasing for your episode or something like that. We have a lot of people who do do that. It's a structure of the show. It's a stylized structure. They script those very regularly, but I guarantee you, like they practice them and it's one sentence or so that it's not hard for them to drop the script and actually then just say the lines because they've memorized it.

Another exception that I do counsel our podcasters on is that if you are quoting somebody as a part of your discussion or your topic, then it is important to read that quote and get it accurate. So in that kind of context, that's okay for the delivery of that to be more mechanical because you know what?

It's not your words and accuracy matters.

Yeah, right, it does. So that's important.

What comes off as too salesy that you're going to learn really quickly and you're going to see where your comfort level lies. Now, you know, you can go and listen to, you know, top sales podcasts and there's a lot of salesy messaging going on there. But that might be right for the audience.

Right.

It might be different. If you're trying to coach someone on its self empowerment, having too salesy of a message is not very empowering to that person who's listening. Right. So thinking about your audience and how much of that sales language and how much of that pushy messaging is are you comfortable with, both in the way you say things throughout your show and in the advertisements or promotions that you might be running that are talking about your opportunities and your offers. And so it might be teach you to craft your language differently, teach you your process of how you like to do it. That's something that you'll learn really quickly from being a good listener, especially when you listen in your genre, into your competition, for that matter.

Now, Tracy, what about when you have maybe a guest or another person on your show you're having a discussion with and they are just running on and on and on and on and never stopping. And you don't want to disrespect them because as you're interviewing them, while it's your show that you're recording, you have a personal connection and relationship with that person and you really want to interrupt them, to interject, to maybe get them more to focus on something else and not just go off on their own tangent. What would you do?

So I have a way of being a little bit pushy. I'm going to say it's easy for me to stop someone and say, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, let me repeat that or let me hear what you said really carefully.

Let me clarify this or make sure I understood.

Make sure I understood this and in a way refocus and get them back on track. I'm comfortable with that. But you may not be, especially if you haven't interviewed thousands of people like I have. Right.

Maybe you're interviewing a world leader.

Right.

That's a tough situation.

It is a tough situation. And look, we've seen broadcasters do an extremely bad job of interviewing world leaders lately, so. Yeah, yeah, exactly. So not going to name any names, but it was pretty bad recently, so we've seen that go on. So learning really great interview tactics is a strategy. I have a couple of shows that I listen to specifically for that. One of my favorite shows is Veronica Dagger. Her show is called Secrets of Wealthy Women. And she came up from the Wall Street Journal, she came from print and then went into broadcast media. So she's got all the tactics of being a great in depth interviewer and understanding where the story lies. And she's brilliant at it. And I love to hear her interview other broadcasters, which she does actually regularly, because there's this kind of battle going on. And it's exactly the same issue that I have on my show. I'm interviewing top podcasters and I'm the podcast host. So there's like a battle of the broadcasters going on. Right. As who's controlling the interview, who's this about? Right. And how do you do that in a good way that still highlights the people, gives them the feature that they're looking for, but also shows that you're in control here. And so I learned from watching her, listening to her, going through that. And there's a handful of other podcasts that I do Regularly, frequent. But I want to up my interview game, especially when I know I'm going to, you know, because I research who I'm going to interview. So when I know I've got a certain type of personality, I might go, I'm going to go check out these shows and brush up on some interviews. You ideas on how to do that, how to interrupt better, how to set up a question better. Those are some things that you'll get from being a curious podcast listener.

That's great, Tracy. Thank you. You know, the one other thing I want to remind our listeners is that especially when you're a new host, it takes time to build some of these skills, to get comfortable with some of these things. But remember, it's your show and you can edit, right. Just because it happened a certain way, live in the moment, doesn't mean that's how you have to publish it to the world. You do and can take opportunities to cut things out or what? Tracy, you have another suggestion?

Yeah, I just want to say that some people think just because you live stream it and it happened that way doesn't mean that it has to happen that way in the podcast.

Right.

Because remember, podcast listeners are different than the kind of people that watch live streams. So it's a different audience. And so if you feel like you want to curate, you want to edit, you want to be tighter about it, you want to change it up for them, do it. If it feels like that's the right thing to do to make that show a better show and a better listening experience. That's the whole point of what we're talking about here, is by being a curious podcast listener, you're creating a better listener experience through your show, and you're learning what will work and what won't work. And you're also learning about you, what your preferences are and how you listen and how you want your show to come off.

And, you know, this is another reason why, why I also suggest, you know, we were talking about potentially interjecting, interrupting, wanting to refocus part of your episode. This is why we always recommend, even if you don't intend to use the video that you conduct interviews if they're, especially if they're remotely, and if they're in person, it's even easier to do. But if you're conducting interviews remotely to use video, because you can actually have a hand signal to your guests and say, oh, you know, your facial expression or holding up a finger or holding your hand, raising your hand, saying, you know, you can even set some ground Rules with your guest ahead of time. And, you know, hey, if I have a question or I want to put emphasis on something, I might raise my hand. And I'm not wanting to stop you immediately, but if you can, when I do that, get to a point where you might pause what you're saying and could resume after I chime in. You know, you can set ground rules if you want. It's even easier if you have a co host to create personal hands signals.

Right? We do that.

We do it off camera all the time. Tracy will tap me. She'll hit me on the back of my shoulder like, okay, Tom, you're going on.

You're beating a dead horse. Let's move on with it. Or, you know, and I'll do same thing.

But that is a really good point. Having the video. Like we've always done video interviews, even when we didn't save the video or utilize them, but also because they're really great to be repurposed on social. So, you know, you definitely want to, you know, have that. And who doesn't want to have it? When you interview someone really great, you don't know where they're going to go. Or maybe you interview someone at the start and you don't know how successful they're going to be. You're going to wish you had that video later.

That's true.

You want some visual evidence. So, anyway, we hope this episode inspires you to go out, check out some podcast shows, check out your competition, check it out in your niche, become a curious podcast listener, and then translate that into making a better listening experience and becoming a better podcast host.

All right, everyone, so we have a blog post for this episode@poditize.com so don't forget to go check that out too. You know, if you're listening to this, you want to watch the video. That's where you can watch it. Anything that we mentioned that there are links to, there's going to be a summary of links and even maybe some of the podcasts that we mentioned and all that. So go there to check it out. And we will be back next time with hopefully another helpful episode. This has been Tom and Tracy Hazzard on feed.

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