Why Does Being A Podcast Listener Boost Your Chance Of Being A Successful Podcast Host?

Want your podcast and videocast to be seen, heard, found, and rewarded in this noisy digital world, you are not alone. Join the nonprofit community at Podcasters United and podcast industry experts Tom Hazard and Tracy Hazard as they debunk all that outdated and bad advice you've been getting from the podcast gurus and find out what actually works. Today, get ready to finish feed your brand with smart cut tactics proven to cast your original voice to the world.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to Feed you'd brand. I'm Tom Hazard, along with my co host Tracy, and today I thought we would talk about something that I'm often surprised to hear from podcasters out there.

Why? Why are you surprised?

Maybe I shouldn't be by now, but often I am surprised to hear how few podcasters hosts I'm talking about. A lot of you out there don't listen to podcasts.

May I say that when I first met you, Tom, No. When we first started this, you were not a podcast listener either. So it's actually really not that uncommon. I come across it day after day after day when I do interviews.

But then, even though, let's say you don't listen to podcasts in general, I find a lot of podcasters don't ever listen to their own podcast. Even if they are not a real avid podcast listener themselves, they haven't listened.

Back to their own show. So today we're going to talk about why being a podcast listener can boost your chance of being a podcast host success. So we're looking at the things that might make you a success if you're a listener as well. So we're looking at those factors that you might want to consider. And if you're not a podcast listener up until this point, now's a great time to try some of these things and listen for some of the things that we're talking about, both in your own show and in other people's show, especially competitive shows.

And I would say one or two of these might also be more of something we're suggesting not to do to be successful than it is to actually do something specific to be successful. And I think some of my.

I'm gonna let you do the not to do.

Yeah, yeah, why don't we do that? I mean, mine are a little more on the technical, tactical side of things, and maybe Tracy tends to be more of the creative or strategic side of things. So intro length number one. Now, those of you that are new and starting up a podcast with us, obviously we're going to be recommending this with you, but people that are already out there with a show. It always surprises me how many existing podcasters I talk to considering working with us, and I listen to their show because I want to understand what it's about. So I do listen to podcasts. Tracy, just saying.

No, I know you do. Now, when we first started, you didn't.

Maybe, maybe. But how long their intro is often surprises me. And I'm like, have you listened to your own intro?

So this is a common mistake. And I hear it again and again from people who were set up by certain types of gurus. So I say that with quote, air quotes. But the ones who come out and are branding experts who decided that they're also podcasting experts. So they're following a branding and publicity model, thinking you can cram that into podcasting. And it really doesn't work. Well, if your goal is to actually get listeners. Now, if your goal is to do this solely for PR purposes, maybe it's just fine. But the reality is, is at the end of the day, don't you want to get some listeners, too?

Most of us do. Most of us want listeners. And so when I hear an intro that's a minute long, or even I hear some that are 90 seconds long, and yes, we've had some that are long, it's like, oh, my goodness, when are we going to get on with the show here? It can be very frustrating to listeners. Maybe the very first time they listen to you, they'd be okay with that. And maybe in your very first episode, it's acceptable to have a longer intro that goes in more depth if you feel that that's important. But when people are listening episode after episode to you, or they haven't been able to listen for a few weeks, they're driving from LA to Las Vegas and they've got a three, four hour drive, they're going to binge listen to a bunch of episodes. I mean, I've been driving at the wheel, doing that, because that's honestly one of the times I like to listen to podcasts the most is when I'm on a long drive. Haven't been doing a lot of long driving lately, I'll have to admit, but.

Or long flights.

Or long flights. Yeah, but I binge listen when I'm driving and sometimes I'm like shaking the wheel and I'm like, get on with it. Come on already. I'm tired of this. And I don't want to have to reach while I'm driving to push a button to skip ahead 30 seconds, which you can do with Some apps, it's not very safe to do while you're driving. So binge listeners, they want to hear an intro and know they got to the right place.

And binge listeners are your most valuable listeners. They're the ones who had you in their ear for so long that that's you've become a friend to them. So you want to satisfy them, you want to make your friends happy. Right. So thinking about that in the process is really important. But the other part of it that we hear is when I've talked to podcasters who have over 100 episodes and they decided to change their intro and they made it shorter. They hear back from their audience, Wow, I love the new intro. So great. Like, they hear back from them. That's the first opportunity to know, ooh, you were bugging them. They weren't expressing it, but you were bugging them. And so that is an indicator of how important this can be to the satisfaction of your show.

Here's another factor, and I want to make it clear here. What we're talking about is a prerecorded intro for your show. That's the same every time. We're not talking about you as the host, coming in and introducing what this episode is about. That's entirely different. And that can be as long as you want it. Really, that's not an issue because it's new every time, it's unique. But the other reason that we think that over time we've heard from binge listeners, shorter intros they would prefer is because as podcast hosts, usually we've chosen the style of music that we're using in the intro. We've chosen that voiceover artist's voice based on what we like as the host. I mean, it's our show, we can do whatever we want. That's great. Problem is with thousands and thousands of, and actually even more, tens of thousands of listeners out there. The reality is not everybody has the same taste in music. Not everybody has the same impressions that our voiceover artist is going to make on them. So it's very unlikely you're going to have a pre recorded intro that's going to appeal to everybody, that they're all going to really like it. So in some ways, the shorter the better. Cause if they don't like it, they get through it quick and you're not really annoying them and bothering them. You're gonna get on with the show.

And one more thing, if your show is a short show, under 15 minutes, then your intro needs to be even shorter. 10 to 15 seconds. Do not waste time on a short episode with long intros. You're just going to annoy your audience in that process. Cause a lot of them listen to it on double speed. So that makes it like a seven minute episode. So it's really not in service to your goals of getting them getting to the heart of a message. If you're doing those short episodes and then having a long intro makes no sense. So keep it short.

Right? Yeah. All right. So not to belabor this first point, we're gonna move on. We don't wanna make this shorter intro.

So audio quality. Now, people that are working with us to start up a podcast, we're making sure your audio quality is great. But again, I got reminded even just yesterday, the day before we're record talking with a prospect on the phone who booked a call with me, wanted to find out what we're all about, what we do. And I listen to his show before the call. It's what I do. I want to be able to understand where they're at in their podcasting journey and see how we can support them. And really shocked to hear people recording their episodes. And the host is using nothing more than the built in microphone to their laptop and hearing all of the echo and ambient noise going on, that's going to be very annoying to an audience. If they hear that at the beginning, they may not give the show much of a chance unless they really like the content. But even then they're gonna struggle with it at times. So audio quality again is really important to at least get it to a certain minimum level. I'm not saying you need to go into a recording studio, absolutely not. You can do it in your home, do it in your office, but you need a good quality microphone. Under $100 microphone can be fantastic. We've got actually a post on FeedYourBrand Co about microphones where I review and tested a bunch of them and you can to a bunch of them and decide what you might like. And there's links to where you can get them on Amazon.

Right. And the thing about the audio quality is like we're not talking about sound studio quality. Absolutely necessary because the quality of the listening is not quite at that level. So it's being transferred, translated and fed back to you via your earbuds and whatever. So as a listener, your experience is never going to be that beautiful, amazing, top quality surround sound or something like that. So you don't have to record at that level, but what you do need to record at is recording at a decent level. Now this annoys Tom to no end. Every night on the news, he starts yelling at some of the broadcasters. Some of the people who are doing still doing some at home spots, get a good mic because the echo in their environments, the fact that a lot of them are using Those ridiculous looking AirPods which look so stupid coming out of their head and on top of it, mixes up the microphone. So a lot of times they have a mistake, they don't even realize it. They expected to use the microphone on their computer or maybe a microphone they had plugged in and instead the AirPods is overriding that because it happens so often that people don't realize that the minute they put those things on, the microphone shifts. And so they messed it up. And so the sound quality can be just so echoey and so bad. And this is what I hear most from listeners and from hosts who got improved their sound. First off, listeners are willing to be there with you when you're in the beginning, right? They get it, you're a new show, you're learning things, you're going to realize it. But if you're going dozens and dozens of shows without realizing how bad your sound is, they get frustrated and they quit your show. The thing that they don't like is different sound levels, the sound going up and down and all over the place, bad echoing and bad background noise, those are the things that they get frustrated the most by because it hurts their head, it hurts their ears. And so those are just the simple things that are problematic with the sound levels. But for the most part, most of you are, if you just got a decent mic, double check it before you start recording, you guys are going to be fine. Like that's good enough quality. So that's the simple long and short of it, right on the audio quality part. Tom.

Yes, very, very good point you added Tracy. Okay, so my other big one is too much focused on a guest. Now look, guests as a part of your show format can be a wonderful.

Thing and your show strategy, right? It's really important. I've been talking a lot about the prospect pipeline and when I've been giving presentations out there. This is an important part of your strategy. But if you are too overly guest focused, it can harm the listenability of your show.

So that's the thing too guest focused that you're while as Trace said, guests are important for many, many reasons. And I guess I won't go over why right now. But the thing is, if it's all about the guest, if all you are as a host is A conduit to the guest and they don't really hear from you, your opinion, your thoughts. Did you think that interview was good? Did you like what they had to say? Do you agree with everything they said? Do you not agree with everything they said? I mean, when a host is on interviewing a guest, then you actually, you want to be polite to them, right? You don't want to maybe necessarily challenge them so much, contradict them. So I think it's very important that you have a part of your show format if you're not gonna do it with the guest on and have maybe a little more candid conversation than you would because maybe you just wanted to be polite. I think it's important you have a section of your show where you are letting your audience know what you think. Did you enjoy that interview?

You can call it a wrap up, you can have your final thoughts, whatever that might be. So there's three issues with being overly, I'm going to call it gratuitous with your guest, right? Being all about them, gushing about them because you're trying to build a relationship with them. A problem with that is, is that you don't dive deep enough. You don't ask those deeper questions because you're afraid you might trip on the controversial answer or something they didn't want to comment on. The second thing is that it allows the guest to control the conversation and very often they will drop into sound bites. And when they drop into sound bites, they're saying the same thing on your show that they said everywhere else. And when that happens, the listeners tune out because they're like, oh, I'm not going to get, I already heard this guy, I'm not going to listen to it again. And then the third thing that happens when you don't control the show is you aren't controlling in your topic and you're controlling for your audience and your topic. So whether that's your area of expertise, whether it's in selling or real estate or whatever it is, when you just let it be your all personal or all development and you don't head into why is this relevant to a real estate investor listener or a health and wellness listener, why isn't it relevant to them? What is it about it that can make it relevant? And you're not asking those questions and moving the conversation there, then it's just another interview. It's just another Q and A. And that's not what they're there for. They're there and they've chosen your show because you have A topic and because you have an interest area and an expertise or curiosity maybe, or a point of view.

Right. And don't be afraid to express that. I often. I mean, I don't even remember. 600 plus episodes of one of our podcasts interviewed a lot of people. Not every episode was an interview episode. Maybe I don't even know if half were, because for a while we were doing one interview a week and four other episodes a week. But that changed at one point. Anyway, all those interviews, there were often times I didn't have the same opinion. I didn't feel the same way about the subject. We were talking as the guest, and I made sure to respect them and not to throw them under the bus, so to speak. But your audience does want to hear from you, and the more you do that, you establish a better relationship with your listener. You know, your guest is there for one show and then they're moving on. Right?

But the reality is that if you are in this service mindset of serving my audience first, then the guest is not a match to that. Then they're not a match. You shouldn't have asked them on in the beginning, and it needs to fall out. It's in their best interest, too, although they don't realize it because PR firms are just cramming people onto anything podcasts they can get them on because it's easy. It's easy to get them on a show than it is to get them written in an article. So they're cramming them onto all different shows, whether or not it's a right fit. So making sure that you're establishing that right fit and working with that audience curation model in process as you ask questions, as you guide the conversation, you're actually serving that guest better because you're creating that match that they may have and that they should have as to why you brought them on the show, why you wanted to talk with them to begin with, as a prospect, bringing that relevance together for your audience's perspective is going to be the most valuable thing you can do for all parties involved.

All right, Tracy, now that we talked about some things we don't recommend you do, let's turn this a little more to the positive side of things. What would you like to contribute? Recommend for our listeners?

So when you get to be a binge listener and you've listened to a lot of podcasts over time, and there's a quality of show, you start looking for. Right. There's some characteristics that you can start looking for. Now, it's different if you're consuming from marketing information, right. Let's say I'm a marketer, I'm a digital marketer. I'm out there consuming what's the best practices in social media, what might be some great new SEO things. I'm consuming content from an information gathering perspective is completely different from I'm trying to be more healthy, I'm trying to grow my portfolio. So understanding, because you're in that perspective of I'm creating a show that is for a particular purpose, you want to be that type of listener. So very often I get people say, oh yeah, I'm a listener, but I only listen to crime serials. That's not going to help you build a better show. You need to go sit back and listen to shows that are in your category, shows that are in your type of. Because what you'll learn really fast is what's working and what's not working. Because you'll get bored if it's not good. And if you get bored, then you won't keep listening and you'll say, oh my gosh, I've been making that mistake in my show. Let me improve it. So you're going to get a sense of what flows and what's good. And that's really critically important. And you deciding, I want to bring that into my show or I want to try that out. And you'll also get a good sense of what's working in terms of interviewing. If you're doing interviews because you'll hear some great practices, you'll start to build on your knowledge of what's a great opening question, what's a great way to close after a guest? So these are some of those awkward moments that you all tell me you have. You have these awkward moments where you're like, okay, and thank you for being on the show. And you just ended it abruptly and very weirdly. And so that is just something that you'll be able to resolve because you'll be able to hear some and you'll say, I could try that out. And you try it out. Maybe it's not comfortable for you, but maybe it is. And that's where you'll start to fall in a place where you have a great way to open your show and open your interview and a great way to close. All those things are going to come from listening to what's working and what's good on shows you like, because if you like it, it's going to resonate with you. And it's probably more likely to be in your style that's just the way it works out there. The other thing that you can be successful with by being a good listener is you're going to understand how to get to the point quicker or go even slower because maybe you go too fast. And so when you listen to comparison shows out there and you go, gosh, that was a great show. Boy, their show is a lot slower paced than mine. Maybe that helps people absorb it well, because look how good their show is doing. So being able to understand that contrast now, maybe you want to dive deep in and you're going to be that contrast. You're going to be the speed demon, you're going to be the speed queen, and as opposed to all the people who are going slower in your category.

And.

And maybe that's why people are going to choose you, but at least you've chosen it for a reason, for a purpose, and you understand what you're up against and what the difference is.

Well, I definitely think when people speak as fast as you do, Tracy, slowing down for a dramatic pause can have a big impact. I speak much slower than you do in general. And actually, I think people don't like that so much, so I tend to try to not do that. But it's a really good point. The speed at which you speak and especially at different times can make a big difference.

But these are just characteristics of shows. Listening to those characteristics of the shows and why you might want to try some of these things for your own purposes. So that's just something to consider. The other part of it, the third thing that I have that can make you a success is that you're more likely by listening to shows and you'll get the same thing most of us do. When I listen to a show and I'm like, another interview, you will get to that place in your own content and you'll go, ah, I'm going to skip and do all the solo shows. And that's an important part, is while you may hit and listen to an occasional interview, and interviews are extremely important for show growth, for your prospect pipeline, for all of those things. But at the end of the day, those solo pieces actually are what your listening audience wants the most from you. It is the number one thing from all the binge factor interviews. I've done those that say, I added solo episodes and my show took off. I hear it again and again and again. Now, it doesn't always work when you're starting out because you got to kind of establish your base, establish your authority in the industry. But once you hit over 25 episodes. Starting to add in solo shows and see how they do. Shows where you're handling a topic, shows where, like Tom was pointing out before, where you want to do that recap after your guest. Maybe you want to do a whole separate show that's a recap on your thoughts, especially if you're the kind of person who needs to marinate in what you heard and now you want to give a concerted viewpoint and opinion. We have a lot of podcasters who do that. They're very thought provoking in what they want. They want to draft out, they want to take time to make bullets. They don't want to just do that quick close of thoughts and recaps. So do it as a separate episode. See how it goes. Very, very often you will find that, that as a listener that you discover that and you think I should add this to my show. It can be. The biggest success builder that you put into your show is adding in those things because you're going to start to realize why you chose some of the hosts and shows that you did and the ones you keep coming back to. We touch shows and we listen to shows because they're research, but we don't come back to them again. I actually have multiple playlists in all of my apps because I listen in multiple apps because the experience is different. And so when I listen in my Stitcher app, for instance, I have specific playlists for the shows that I'm going to binge listen to because I know I'll come through and I'll listen to all their episodes and I'll go through them. And I have another one for ones that I'm researching and I'm touching on. And I have yet another one that's for clients so that I can check out your shows periodically and hear how you're doing and check in on you. And then I have yet another one for people who make appointments with me and I've got to check out their show and give them a strategy. But very often I don't go back to those ones that are in the research and strategy. If I didn't move them to my binge listening app, they're done. I probably will not go back to them unless I'm looking for something specific in answer to a question, I'm still subscribed. So this can happen to you when you start seeing a boost of subscribers, but then they don't stick with you and all your shows aren't getting it, but your occasional solo shows are. You know, you're onto something. And that's the best way for you to develop as a listener, develop what might be the biggest success factor you can bring to your show.

The last thing I want to leave everybody with, Tom, is like, don't overcomplicate this. So if the shows that you're choosing to listen to are the serials of the world, are the highly produced one, dry shows, you're going to frustrate yourself. Because what I find from interviewing people who work for iheart Wondery and are host of those shows, they have actually no real collaboration or contribution to how the shows lay out. Some of them are just script readers, others they get the script and get all the pre production things that they're supposed to do. And then they do add a little bit of their own flair in it, but that's it. And yet others, the producers are structuring the show so that they can highly edit and cut out the things so where they cut out most of the prompts that they give to the host, so they might actually be on the other side asking the host questions and then removing those questions and piecing the whole thing together. So it's a highly produced show that you are probably not likely to be able to create yourself. So listen to shows from people who are more like you, more at that same stage that you are in, whether it's a corporate show or a personal show. Anything else you want to add, Tom?

I think that really covers it for now. You know, really the big point here is you should listen to some other podcasts in order to get some perspective. And you really should listen to your own once in a while. I know we don't like listening to our own voices. I don't like listening to my voice. But once in a while I think it's an important thing to do and will help you make your show better.

And the last thing I want to leave you with is that for those of you who started in video before, and there are many of you who had video shows first, live streams and other things, YouTube channels, those are the ones who find when they start listening to podcasts, they change the way they record their videos because they start recognizing the bad habits, the things that actually make the podcast itself not sound as good as it could. So video is a lot more forgiving than audio is. So you need to become a podcast listener in order to make sure that your podcast show is as successful as it can be.

That's a really good point, Tracy. I think that may be a good topic for another episode where we talk about really the distinct differences between recording video and audio. And if you're going to be doing both things to be conscious of because we've experienced that and we do have some customers who I've reviewed their shows and reminded them, hey, remember, when you're doing this, it's an audio show, too. And you may need to acknowledge sort of the elephant in the room on that, but in a lot of details. I think we should talk about that.

Okay. I added it to the list. We'll put it on one of our future topics. All right, so as always, if you have topics and you have anything questions for us, things that you'd like us to answer on air, feel free to reach out to us odditize or eadyourbrand anywhere on social media.

All right, so we'll be back with you next time on another great episode. This has been Tom and Tracy Hazzard on feed.

You'd brand.

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