Clinical Use of Peptides And The Nine Hallmarks of Aging

Welcome to the Peptides and Longevity Podcast, redefining aging and transforming health. Each week, Dr. Kent Holtorf will dive into groundbreaking science, innovative therapies, and the future of health and longevity alongside visionary physicians and experts. We'll explore how peptides, cutting-edge medicine, and lifestyle strategies can redefine the way we age. Get ready to transform your health, optimize your vitality, and unlock the secrets to a longer, healthier life. Let's get started.

Hello, this is Dr. Kent Holtorf. Today we're going to be speaking with Ryan Lester, and he's going to talk about peptides for anti-aging and for ultimate longevity, how to stay the heck out of nursing homes. And, you know, who wants to live longer if they're in a nursing home, you know, being fed, uh, through a feeding tube and have Alzheimer's and broken a hip. So, um, a little bit about Ryan. Um, we're so happy to have him. Uh, he's been a physician assistant for over a decade, is on the forefront of rapid— rapidly evolving field of health optimization and human, uh, longevity. He's received his medical degree at Rochester Institute of Technology in 2009. God, you're making me feel so old. Um, over the last decade, um, he has specialized in emergency medicine, orthopedics, joint reconstruction surgery. I think that makes a big difference where I can bring in all these different experiences. He has studied dietary epigenetics at Stanford University, is certified epigenetic coach, and holds a certification in the clinical application of advanced peptide therapies. He has partnered with the APURON, Center for Human Potential in Austin, Texas. I always butcher that. And working with clients to elevate their health and well-being through genomics-based precision performance medicine. I think it's well put. It really is the medicine of the future. It really leverages the latest cutting-edge genetic epigenetic science, nervous system assessment, blood analysis, biometric monitoring, hormone optimization, and lifestyle design. So yeah, kind of, kind of do everything. So, uh, welcome, and I thank you for, um, uh, taking the time to be with us, and, uh, welcome to the summit. Yeah, thanks for having me there in beautiful Austin.

It's great. It's— the sun's out. It's a little hot, but that's— you know that's coming every year, so.

Cool, cool. So we're going to talk about, you know, anti— you know, basically frailty. Can you describe what the heck is that? Why do I care? Who becomes frail? Why is that an issue?

Yeah, well, you know, certainly in our current medical model, we're experts, the medical industry, at treating sick care, sick people, sick symptoms, right? And, and, um, in that system, people become frail and bad things happen. Um, and so in this new paradigm that we are trying to focus on, it is starting with the foundation, um, you know, lifestyle, uh, um, lifestyle, uh, designed to optimize stress, sleep, exercise, um, and, and to prevent, um, people from getting sick and developing these chronic diseases and staying out of that frail state.

Yeah, and, and I think that is— it goes along with that healthspan curve where, you know, you look at the way we work now is we keep people alive longer, but their last 10 years of life is in a nursing home. Yeah, they've got Alzheimer's, they've got, you know, emphysema. And all these things, you know, I'm sorry, I don't want to live like that. And it's, you know, live better longer, right?

Absolutely. Improve healthspan and lifespan, definitely.

And the nice thing is, again, like you said, with standard medicine, like, they won't even treat you until you're bad enough. And I remember we had one guy who had almost had diabetes, and he— we gave him samples of, uh, I forget, some medication, but it worked really well, and but they wouldn't cover it. So he goes, that's it. He ate a bunch and became diabetic, so now he can get the med.

Like, oh geez, you know.

So that's, you know, that's standard medicine. But the whole thing is, yeah, prevent being there and being actually healthy throughout your life. And I think that's becoming so— such a possibility. And, um, uh, yeah, so tell me, um, all the things associated with, uh, frugality. Okay, why is it something to really concentrate on when it's— oh, this is so far down the road, um, but like, when do you start?

Yeah, so you You know, the aging process starts the second we're born. I mean, really it does from a cellular level. And so probably the biggest things we see in the traditional medical model are, are the loss of muscle mass as we age, right? Sarcopenia. We know that's one of the biggest predictors of morbidity and mortality. Cognitive decline. We know that Alzheimer's is rampant right now. Certainly loss of bone density, which people start to get get older, their balance isn't so great, they become deconditioned, they fall, there's the hip fracture, and then everything's downhill from there. And those are the big ones. But I mean, it really starts— aging starts from the moment you're born. And really, the cellular inefficiencies that happen over time is what leads to all these processes. So if we can intervene now is the best time, right?

Yeah.

And mitochondria, what's your thought on Yeah, I mean, certainly mitochondrial dysfunction is one of the 9 hallmarks of aging. So, um, I think it's incredibly important. A lot of these peptides address mitochondria. Certainly lifestyle addresses mitochondria, but it's, it's incredibly, uh, important and impactful, um, for sure.

Yeah. And, and so for everyone, mitochondria, they basically organelles cell that produce energy, and there's a lot of theories of aging that it's Really, if your, your cells just can't produce enough energy, so, you know, what's affected, especially cells that need a lot— brain, muscles. And what happens to your body needs energy to get rid of old cells. And if you don't have enough energy with old cells, you have these old cells lingering, and that's what all of a sudden they turn into cancer because they're all messed up. So there's There's so many things. So, um, what, uh, what areas do you like to target with, with the peptides?

Yeah, so I kind of bring it back to the 9 hallmarks of aging. Um, we just talked about mitochondria.

Um, and certainly tell us what those are.

Yeah, so mitochondrial dysfunction or mitochondrial decline, telomere attrition, which really just means the loss of telomeres or the caps on the ends of the chromosomes that protect our DNA from damage. Nutrient signaling dysfunction, the loss of epigenetic signals, so gene expression.

We—

our gene expression declines. The loss of stem cells, which relates to immune system dysregulation, increasing your risk of infections, and certainly that's relevant right now with COVID And then loss of intracellular communications, which really, really can can lead to chronic inflammation, which we know is a huge part of aging, genomic instability, loss of proteostasis, the clearance of proteins, and then of course the last one being cellular senescence, these zombie cells that form, that stop dividing and form, and then kind of just stay dormant and just give off these, these inflammation signals to nearby cells. So pretty complex, but the peptides we're going to talk about really address a majority of them. We're going to talk about 4 or 5 Certainly, we partner peptides with other medications, supplements, but really, these things are all fancy tools, but the best thing, obviously, as you know, is really starts with nutrition, sleep, stress response mitigation, and then exercise. But on top of all that stuff, we can really— we have some powerful tools to change these things.

Yeah. And it's like, I mean, when I do work out, I work out. Religiously. It's a passion of mine, every 4 months for 8 minutes. But, um, uh, you know, it's like I don't feel like if I go exercise and I don't have my peptide combination, I'm like, why do it? Because I'm getting gypped. I got to do 3 times as much exercise, right?

Yep, it definitely, uh, it definitely makes a big impact when you add on some of these really, really, uh, potent peptides.

And I think you see, you know, people work out, nothing happens, or they, you know, trying to lose weight and just get discouraged.

Yeah.

And so you allowed, you know, to get the body back. And I, you know, some studies, you know, showing like looking at, you know, an elderly person, whatever that is now, it keeps— what am I now, 55? So that was ancient, you know, 20 years ago for me. Now it's like, well, that's not old, that's middle age. But maybe it will be, you know, it's— but other people like, you know, even just the amount of genes that are turned on, the amount of messenger RNA that they're producing, the amount of protein, it just declines. You know, the mitochondria, the cells just aren't doing anything. So you turn that stuff back on, it's the ultimate— like, anti-aging used to be kind of a quacky term, but I think we're kind of there, you know. Um, so I think it's exciting stuff. Um, so what are some of your favorite peptides that you think make a big difference?

Yeah, so, you know, I think it's important to remember that, um, by the age of 50, we lose about 30% of our growth hormone, and by the age of 70, about 50%. Um, our immune system declines. Like I said, we lose muscle mass, bone density. So, uh, probably one of the most popular and, um, most widely used peptides are the growth hormone releasing hormones, um, and the ghrelin mimetics or the, uh, growth hormone secretagogues. Um, and so the most common GHRHs are going to be the CJC-1295, Tesamorelin, which is the most potent, um, Sermorelin, which isn't as good and isn't used as widely anymore. Um, and then the grelin mimetics, uh, so the GHRP-2, GHRP-6, ipamorelin, which seems to be the best one because it really doesn't induce a lot of hunger. Uh, MK-677, hexarelin, and, and the, you know, the effect, the physiologic effect of these is, is, is well documented.

Um, uh, and just so for the viewers, like, it's like kind of, word salad there. I mean, there's just a bunch of them, uh, and a lot of them we can't get anymore, right? Um, I'm worried about peptides in general, you know, big pharma realizing that, hey, these people are helping people, you know, we're not going to have the sick people around, you know. But, um, uh, so some are growth and releasing peptides, some are growth and releasing hormones. They have slightly different effects, kind of some secrete multiple things, some— but with that, do you generally use them together?

Absolutely. So there seems to be a synergistic effect with CJC-1295 and ipamorelin.

I think it's kind of the classic one.

Exactly.

And the cleanest, and yeah.

Yeah, yeah, we used to just give people growth hormone and we thought that was really kind of best for outcomes. But what we really determined was that the pathway is pretty complex, right? There's receptors, there's IGF receptors, there's IGF-1 receptors, there's growth hormone receptors, GHRH receptors, ghrelin receptors. And, and so, uh, you know, uh, that's why when we start the pathway in the brain, it really kind of— you can utilize that pleiotropic effect of the whole pathway. But reductions in inflammatory markers, reduces visceral fat, reduces triglycerides, reduces other cardiovascular disease risk markers, injury repair, recovery from exercise. You know, it reduces the atrophy of skeletal muscle, improves deep sleep. That's one of the big ones a lot of people forget about. So the effects are pretty impactful. And, and, you know, there's a controversy about this, right? Like, so we, we know from observational studies that chronic understimulation of the growth hormone pathway is definitely not a good thing. And chronic overstimulation of the pathway is definitely not a good thing. So, seems to be that the sweet spot's probably somewhere in the middle and then the next question is what's really optimal for anti-aging, right? And that's yet to be determined, but it's definitely somewhere in the middle. And so we do like to cycle these.

Yeah, and I think, you know, we were using growth hormone and then, you know, it turns out, you know, anytime the athletes are abusing it and when, you know, we would have some athletes, we try not to, you know, I don't treat anyone who's trying to overdose on the stuff, but you can't believe the doses of the stuff they're taking. And they look, or they go to their endo or their doctor like, "Oh, your head's gonna get bigger, and your jaw's gonna—" And I say, "I don't know anyone rich enough to do that much growth hormone." Except Barry Bonds, I think. I think his head grew a little bigger. But when you're in professional sports, I mean, You know, you pay a lot to hit 10 more feet because you're either warning track power or superstar. Yeah. And, and so yeah, growth hormone ended up being— it's the only drug you can't give off-label, which is like more controlled than fentanyl, like, you know, narcotics. And how many people have died of growth hormone, you know? Right. And I did a review on growth hormone. People say, oh, cancer, there's never been a case of people getting cancer from growth hormone, you know. And the nice thing about— and let's talk about this— the secretagogues to stimulate your own is you can't really overdose, right?

Because of that negative feedback loop. Exactly. And these peptides are very— the body recognizes them as same, right? They're produced in the body. So they're very, very accurate. They're very potent at stimulating the pathways, and their off-target effects are really minimal. So side effects, really, really minimal. Very safe for the most part. So yeah, exactly.

And I think that's a common thread with the peptides, which are nice. And I think that's great because, you know, especially with the growth hormone, I was like, oh, bodybuilder, bodybuilder. It's like, no, bodybuilders don't want that so much unless they're low because they can't overdose, they can't overdo it. Right. So that's nice. So what else do you think is is a bang for your buck peptide or works really well for longevity, anti-aging?

Sure, sure. So Apetilon is definitely one of the most exciting peptides for longevity. And so it's derived from— it's a peptide that was derived from the pineal gland in the brain, and it really activates telomerase, which is an enzyme that you know, helps modulate those caps on the ends of the chromosomes.

So, but it does a lot of other stuff.

Explain that a little more. Sure. So, um, the telomeres are on the ends of the chromosomes, and, uh, um, we know that as telomeres shorten over time as we age, it increases the likelihood of DNA damage, which is part of the aging process. And so this telomerase enzyme helps protect those caps. Okay. And so that's what happens on a biological level. And remember, most of the studies on this one come out of Dr. Cavinson's lab in St. Petersburg, Russia. And he's done a lot of studies in both rodent models and humans. I mean, he's done long-term observational and placebo-controlled studies in folks older than 60, and he monitored them for 6 to 12 years. I mean, really some robust studies.

Yeah. And I really like the one where it's funny. You use the European pronunciation, uh, uh, epitalon, uh, epitalion, you know. Yeah, there's so many pronunciations. Yeah, so they use that along with thymulin. They gave it to people who significant cardiovascular disease older than 65, followed them for, it was 12 years, 15 years, And what they found was that the people on the treatment— and they only really did very short doses of it— and that their cardiovascular, uh, basic function got better, and they lived longer, had less morbidity, and less cancer. And yeah, like the ultimate anti-aging. And I go— or taking it like this, the, um, uh, Apetilon or Apetalin, like raises the melatonin levels to, you know, younger levels. Yeah, yeah, it's kind of like the ultimate anti-aging peptide, I think.

Yeah, it really is. Um, his results were really impressive. 4.1 times reduction in mortality rate in that study, um, 8 times improvement in physical work capacity, um, 80% increase in bone density, uh, 56% memory improvement, um, 67% survival. 65% increase in subjective well-being. I mean, that's huge. Um, 28% lower mortality. Uh, so yeah, it was, it was really, uh, the, the results were pretty, uh, incredible.

Yeah. So you figure there's 65 starting, so they're like 75, and all these things— better well-being, cardiovascular function— they're living life. Yeah. Versus in the nursing home. Yeah, it's like, what's that word?

Yeah, and they documented, uh, improved skin elasticity, better youthful appearance. I mean, these people looked better, felt better, and they were just more resilient.

Yeah, people probably do it even if it, you know, you actually died sooner but you look better. Uh, but I'm in LA, so that's, you know, uh, but, but you actually get the best of both worlds. I mean, it's one of those things that I never say everyone should take this, you know, XYZ, but, um, it's close to one of those things that I don't— I've never seen a side effect from it. Um, I love it as a magical sleep cocktail. Um, the Heptalion, uh, with Delta sleep-inducing peptide and, uh, like some, some sort of growth hormone booster. Yeah. And people that can't sleep it, like myself, it's just like, oh my God, I'm sleeping, you know. It's not like a sleeping pill where else you just fall asleep. It's over 2 weeks, you notice that, like, I'm getting deep sleep and I'm dreaming again. And it kind of changed for me. I used to have nightmares all the time. It's also when I had Lyme though, so I can't say it was just that. But I have nice dreams now, you know, instead of waking up stressed and in fight or flight. Yeah. So I, I love that peptide.

So that's fascinating. You've seen good results with that, with DSIP, Delta Sleep Inducing Peptide.

I think, yeah, they're great together. And I think the nice thing is with the peptides, there's really nothing you can't give it with, you know.

Yeah, certainly the safety profile is, is one of the biggest advantages. Yep. Yeah.

And like with the TB4, you know, 1,000 times the dose and no negative effects, which is like probably most of the peptides, you know, try that with anything else— Tylenol, water, right, you know, any medication—

and forget it. Yeah, they certainly seem to be safer than most medications and most supplements, to be honest.

Yeah, yeah. So what else? Do you generally use them all in combination?

So it really depends on the client's goals, you know, what do they want, and then we kind of reverse engineer the plan from there. So if they're focusing more on on body composition, more muscle, less fat, um, the GHRHs, GHRPs really, uh, with of course hormone optimization, um, are really the go-to there. Uh, if they're looking for more anti-aging longevity, we might do, um, uh, more of a Pitallon stack with some other, um, uh, supplements. Um, um, someone who's looking for more cognitive enhancement, um, unfortunately, you know, cerebral lysine is recently off the table. Um, but boy, did that have some promising— Yeah, I'm hoping so.

Well, yeah, we'll have it as an oral supplement in 2 weeks. Nice. Which is shown to, uh, uh, you know, studies showing change the EEG, so it works. Each capsule is about 2.5 cc's of the injectable.

Ah, okay, okay. Yeah, great, great.

Love that. Yeah, because I, uh, when we couldn't get that, like, I was calling Russia, you know, trying to get it for myself. Yeah, but The peptide world is very strange right now and no one knows what's going to happen. It's really nice that they all dovetail together.

Yeah, they really can be stacked quite well and the impact is huge.

Mitochondrial boosters.

Yeah, so MOTC is really our go-to for this. It's a mitochondrial-derived peptide. Most of the studies are in rodents, but it just seems to, I mean, ultimately mimic the effects of exercise. So it increases mitochondrial turnover, mitochondrial production. It improves this pathway called AMP kinase, which really is a master regulator of both glucose regulation and insulin sensitivity and fat metabolism. It improves bone density, reduces fat accumulation. So this is really an impactful peptide for fat loss and weight loss. There's a study showing increased endothelial function and vascularity to heart tissue. This is a really exciting one. Yeah, that's huge.

And I like that. It's like, did you exercise? Yeah, I took my shot.

Yeah. Hey, I, uh, I mean, I'm just one of those people who absolutely loves to exercise too. So even if it didn't have any effects, I'd be doing it anyway. Yeah.

It's, uh, it's just, it is what it is. It's like if I'm on that machine, I just think every minute I'm like, I'm just— I lost my breathing. Why am I here?

I'm like, I can't take it. Yeah.

And then, but then when you get done, you're like, oh my God, I feel so good.

I'm so glad I did it. Yeah, exactly.

And then it's like, uh, so I'm like your standard person, you know, and, uh, I gotta stop eating juji fruits for, for breakfast. But yeah, it's all good. But it, it's nice that you can do this with safety, you know, and combined with— sounds like you do hormone optimization. What hormones do you find they work well with?

Yeah, so, you know, the, the, um, really the most impactful hormone for both sexes is testosterone, as you know. Um, so, uh, we, we use that quite a bit, certainly. Um, Estrogen, progesterone, testosterone, those are the main ones. Thyroid, are you giving? Absolutely, thyroid is the master regulator, right? So incredibly important to make sure that's in a healthy state. So yeah, if it's appropriate, then we'll certainly boost that.

Yeah, and I found like, you know, you talk about testosterone, I mean, huge for virility, especially I think, you know, for men.

Oh, absolutely.

The problem is when they check the blood levels, one, you look— so you take 95% of the people, they're considered normal. And if you look at someone 10 years ago and they make 95% normal, that 10 years ago it was here, it was higher. Uh, and then 10 years before that it was even higher. Yeah. But now people that would have been low are now normal. You know, exactly. And so, and there's also studies showing that they get— they have less receptors, they get testosterone resistance. So the argument is, well, you should maybe make them above the range, you know. It's like saying, well, this is normal. So is cancer, so is heart disease, then don't do anything, right? So I've had so many people like with so many symptoms of testosterone and but they come back at like 800, right, you know, the top of the range. And, you know, what do you do? And so I'll get— let's give you a trial, a shot. Their erectile dysfunction goes away, their quality of life, they're just alive again. Like, you stop giving it to them. But if some doc, someone complains, and, uh, you know, someone who hasn't read the literature looks at that looks at that chart, they go, "Oh, you overdosed this guy." Oh, you know, so—

Yeah, it's a great point.

—they're shy of this stuff, you know.

Yeah, it's a great point. You know, the last few decades we've seen significant reductions in free testosterone levels in males, and we're not exactly sure what's going on, but it definitely seems to be these endocrine disrupting chemicals are probably playing a huge role.

Yeah, and I'm sure you've seen it, Kids 18, 20, 25, they're like 200. They're like a, you know, 60-year-old. Yep.

Yeah, it's pretty shocking. But the impact of testosterone on both males and females, particularly as we get older, is just incredible.

And yet all the estrogenic, you know, plastics, pesticides, BPA. Yeah.

We have it.

Thyroid, testosterone. I mean, they have fish now that there's no more males, so we're gonna be a planet of females.

Yeah, it's a—

I'm not gonna insert joke here, I'll be in trouble. Yeah, but yeah, it's bad. You know, too much estrogen is not good for men. I mean, it, you know, cause a lot of health problems. And so, yeah, so what else do you guys do? So you do the hormones, the peptides, they pretty much are core with that, and what else for anti-aging? What do you think is the—

Yeah, so these thymus peptides are, I mean, thymus and alpha-1 specifically This was isolated from tissue in the thymus gland. And so this is actually one of the few that is FDA approved for various cancers, various infections. It's actually in phase 2 trials for HIV, cancers, hepatitis B, hepatitis C, but it really is a very potent regulator of a certain part of the immune system, the T cells. And these are responsible for fighting off viruses, bacteria, which right now is a big deal with COVID Also increases development of B cells to plasma cells, which make antibodies. Antibodies. We know that's incredibly important for ongoing immune strength, reverses immune suppression caused by conditions like chronic inflammatory response syndrome, has been shown to inhibit cancer growth and inhibit viral replication. So this one right now is— our whole team at Apuron is on this for COVID. And now there's, you know, not a ton of conclusive evidence that it's it's treating COVID, but there is, there is a study or two that is showing some, some reduced mortality in people with severe COVID infection. So, um, it's, uh, it's incredibly helpful.

Yeah, there is, and but God forbid you put it up on the internet. Yeah, it's— if you mention anything other than a vaccine, you get a letter from the FTC. Just— we, we got one just from Like, you know, there's studies showing just giving everyone vitamin D. Yeah, probably stop the whole pandemic in 2 months. But yeah, with the thymosins, yeah, thymosin alpha, it's approved in about 30 countries for infections, cancer, all these things. And because it raises kind of— there's like Th1 stuff inside the cell, Th2 stuff outside the cell, uh, uses their balance. But as you get older, you lose your thymus, and so you start getting too much Th2, not enough Th1. And also with any chronic illness, stress— we think of stress lowering inflammation, but it actually does this. Um, and so, you know, thymus and beta-4 will modulate as well, uh, and then BPC will the, you know, lower Th2. And we're finding just when we do these big labs on people that so many conditions have the same underlying immune dysfunction, right? These patterns, right? Like mitochondrial dysfunction, whether it's in, you know, doctors who don't want to know, uh, say, oh, chronic fatigue syndrome, it's all made up, it's in their head. Like, well, we can pick it out on a blood test about 70, 80% of the time and how sick they are. So how is that, you know, but they look also just like autistic, same, same pattern. So yeah, the modulation is the key, which also goes along with inflammation. Absolutely. You mentioned to make antibodies too. If you have low Th1, like as you get older, you can't make antibodies. So if you raise Th1, you can make antibodies which generate Th2. So it's interesting. And like, we'll give— like, all the thymosins are similar, but they do different things. And like, thymosin beta-4, more of a modulator. We give it to boost stem cells and things, and we give it IV, and we'll find fentanyl patients or something like that, "Oh my God, my pain's gone." You know, because it just lowered all their inflammation. Yeah, wow. Yeah, so yeah, and, uh, I mentioned, yeah, we have out the thymosin beta-4 fragment. I don't know if you've heard of that, but it's the active fragment that's orally absorbable and it works systemically, um, and just does something. Maybe can help your patients who can't do shots, whatever.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've heard a bit about it.

Yeah, yeah, so we love this stuff. I mean, it, you know, peptides and, uh, to a degree stem cells actually saved my life, you know. So, uh, but, uh, awesome. So, um, it sounds like you kind of have a— this, this full program. Well, what, what is your typical patient?

I would say our typical patient is, um, Someone who, gosh, I have patients from 28 to 80, so certainly the age changes, but I would say this is somebody who's generally pretty healthy, might be looking to change some body composition. Typically, things are going pretty well though, and so they're really kind of looking for that edge, whether it be cognitive enhancement or just to kind of optimize. They're really doing well and they just want to further enhance their performance, whether it be at work or in relationships or Everything, you know, so yeah, I would say our clients are pretty high performing and they're a lot of fun to work with.

And don't you think it's kind of nice because, I mean, with standard medicine it's like, okay, yeah, this problem, go to the neurologist, go to cardiologist, you know, go to gastroenterologist or whatever, and No one's looking at the underlying commonality and mechanisms, right? Right. And, but like all these things you're saying is that it's not a freak out when someone comes in, 28-year-old, 70, 96-year-old. Yeah. It's the same mechanisms you're looking at. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think it's powerful. That we're getting at the core instead of just trying to treat something symptomatically.

Yeah, yeah, the traditional medical model is very stovepiped, you know, it's very, um, uh, it's, it's, it's, it's too, it's too narrow-minded. The human system is complex, um, it's unpredictable, and it cannot be reduced to certain, you know, A plus B equals C. I mean, it really is a complex system, and it needs to be interpreted that way.

Yeah, yeah. And I think it's, you know, when we started, it was like, even myself, it's like ingrained, don't go to these anti-aging, uh, you know, alternative, which I don't think I'm, you know, what does alternative mean? It's called, oh, no evidence. I mean, all these conferences are so much more evidence-based than you go to the university conferences, it's just like a drug rep, you know, telling you here's this. So it's where the action is, right?

I certainly am enjoying the sandbox, that's for darn sure.

Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. And, uh, and so you're there in Austin. How many people do you work with? Is there a clinic there?

Do you— Yeah, so we have a, we have a clinic in downtown Austin, um, We have a small team about, well, we have a clinic in Austin. We also have a center in Asheville, North Carolina, where it started. But our main center is in Austin. And we have a team of 10, 15 people throughout both centers.

And so what happens, like, I'm whatever, a person that has a bunch of issues, whether young, old, They call, they come in, they see you.

What, what happens? Yeah, so typically we really just try and get on a phone call with them and just talk to them. So people can go to my website elevatewithryan.com and we can get on a call and just kind of talk about your goals and what you'd like. And, uh, and, and from there we'll kind of determine if we're a good fit. Um, and, um, yeah, I mean, we, we really are big on data, so we'll get blood work, we'll get genetics. We, uh, our programs are very, um, genetics-based. So we do use, um, probability-based lifestyle guidance, uh, from genetic—

I think is the way of the future. And, you know, studies are studies, and I tell people, you're not a study, you know? And like, hey, the studies say you should be better, you know, but they're not. And so, um, but I didn't mean to interrupt you. Um, And so, okay, uh, what else happens?

Um, so yeah, uh, genomics are a big part. And then once we collect everyone's data, we'll bring them into the center for the evaluation, and we do some nervous system assessments as well. We can do some brain mapping. We do some functional movement assessments. We're really trying to get a comprehensive picture of the, of the person and the individual and their goals. Because it's all, it's all related. It's very dynamic. It's, yeah, it's, it's great. Yeah. Yeah.

And I think it's rare that a, like, a sick person has almost everywhere, every area is sick, right? It's like they don't have some select, like, you know, you know, sometimes, but, you know, we see these kind of multi-system errors. Everything's a vicious cycle. Right. You fix one area, it fixes the other, um, and then that gets better and better. But if you don't address the other areas, then that one area never gets fixed, no matter how hard he's pounding that one area.

Yeah, it really speaks to the complexity of the human system because it really is all related.

It's something you're doing some, some great work.

Now, uh, if you have your own kind of website, are you all individual or No, so I mean, I have a website certainly just for health coaching, and then also anybody who's interested in working with me, I'll bring them into kind of the Apiron realm and then hopefully work together. But we have a, you know, certainly Apiron has a big website and all of our information on there as well.

And how often do you see patients?

Just logistics. So most of my clients are virtual. They're either Most of them are out of state or out of the country. Some are local, but I typically see anywhere from 2 to 5 new clients a month. And then majority of my established clients are ongoing. I'll meet with them every couple weeks or every month for a year. And our programs are a minimum 12 months because it takes, it takes a lot of work to make, you know, significant changes for some. So we won't do anything shorter than 12 months.

Well, you know, What a different model than standard medical care.

Yeah, that's what I love about it.

Yeah, it's just— I'm just thinking about it, you know, people are just used to being— they love their doctor. I think now they're starting not to, but, uh, you know, they get 8 minutes, oh, here's antidepressant, go. They don't care what happens if, you know, call if when you, you know, lose a limb or whatever. Um, but yeah, I think the world's changing for, for the better and you guys sound like you're on the forefront.

Well, we're certainly trying to. Yeah.

That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, I think you've given some great information and, uh, uh, yeah, you guys are on the cutting edge and just really shows how medicine can actually change. And I, I did a piece called 17 Years Ahead because the Annals of Internal Medicine found that it takes on average a proven new therapy to accept it into mainstream medicine takes on average 17 years. Yeah. So, you know, what we kind of say we're doing, you know, it's like, oh, what are you, integrative, functional?

Like, I don't know what to call ourselves.

I think— yeah, I just think we practice better medicine. You know, and we, we crunch that 17 years to, you know, to very short where it doesn't take that long. And, uh, sounds like you're doing such a great service. I imagine some great stories and, uh, people that you helped, and so a lot of grateful people that whose lives have changed forever, right?

Well, we're certainly trying, and it's, uh, it's, it's, uh, it's been a pleasure, I'll tell you, being in this, in this world because it's so different than the last, you know, 10 or so years that I was in traditional medicine.

So, uh, it's super exciting. Yeah, because you were doing ER, ortho. Yeah, I mean, that's like standard, you know, algorithmic. Absolutely. Uh, no thinking. And more and more now, that's what it is. Like, you, you, you know, ER, you better do this, this, this, this, or you brought up in front of the, front of the board. Like, there's no thinking. And doctors are getting replaced with artificial intelligence. They put their symptoms in there and it's gone. You need to do this. Where what you're doing, I think what we're doing, is, is very different in that because it's not just algorithmic based. And, and we'll interview doctors and working, um, interviews like, what's the protocol? I'm like, There is no protocol. Yeah. It's concepts. Right. And the way doctors are trained now, they memorize, they go, give me the, you know, give me the protocol, memorize it in an hour, you know? Yeah. There is none. And they freak out. Yep.

So. The human system just does not work like that.

Yeah. It's interesting. So anyways, I could talk to you forever and—

Likewise. Yeah. I enjoyed the chat.

Because I, I mean, I love this stuff and, uh, saved my life and say wonderful, uh, things. So I thank you for taking the time, and I think you've great— some great information for all the viewers, and appreciate it.

Likewise, thanks for having me.

Great, have fun in Austin.

Thank you, take care. All right, bye-bye.

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