Goldilocks Dosing: The Sweet Spot for Calm, Smarter Focus

Something like caffeine would be a nootropic, but in a, a fairly narrow dose range. So a lot of nootropics are not more is better.

I think of them like Goldilocks and the Three Bears, right? There's a, a just right amount or just right range where they tend to have the, the more nootropic benefit.

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Hello, it's Dr. Ken Holtorf with another episode of the Peptide Summit. Today we're gonna talk a little bit about supplement, nootropics, analytics, and some other things with Dr. Gregory Kelly. Uh, he's director in product development of Neurohacker Collective. He's a naturopathic physician and author of the book Shapeshift. He was the editor of the Journal of Alternative Medicine Review and has been an instructor at the University of Bridgeport in the College of Naturopathic, uh, Naturopathic Medicine. Where he has taught classes in advanced clinical nutrition, counseling skills, and doctor-patient relationships. He has published hundreds of articles on natural medicine nutrition, contributed 3 chapters to the textbook of natural medicine, and has more than 30 journal articles indexed on PubMed. That's tough to do, let me tell you, especially in natural medicine. They don't like to publish that stuff. His areas of expertise include nootropics, and we'll talk about what the heck are nootropics. Anti-aging and regenerative medicine, weight management, sleep, and the chronobiology of performance and health. Welcome, Dr. Kelly. I appreciate you taking the time and, and being on the Peptide Summit and sharing your expertise.

No, my pleasure.

It's great getting to have a conversation with you and share some things together with your audience.

Nice, nice. And when I, I looked at your website there, and I've known those, known of those products for a long time, and I've looked at 'em and said, wow, this company or this person knows what they're doing. So it, it really shows in the quality of, of your supplements. But yeah, tell me, how, how'd you get into this?

Yeah, so I've been on a long windy road for a career. I, I started out as an officer in the US Navy. Believe it or not.

Wow. Back under the Reagan years when the Navy was 600-ship Navy, I think was the goal during the '80s under Reagan.

Oh my God.

And then you know, they had paid for my engineering degree.

So I was committed to do a certain amount of time.

And towards the end of that, I was the, like the kind of wacko officer on my ship, right?

Like ate well, exercised.

And you know, when I got out, I had just gotten more and more interested in healthy living and self-care and got out, kind of went to Hawaii, started taking courses at the University of Hawaii, trying to stitch together more than the natural end of things.

So I, like, master's degree would've been something close to what would be nutritional or medical anthropology, kind of how indigenous cultures figured out how to take care of themselves.

And during that time period, I ran into some naturopaths in Hawaii and thought like, wow, you're, you, there's a whole profession doing what I seem to be interested in.

So, you know, kind of shifted gears from then, went to naturopathic school in the early '90s.

And even as a student, I was keenly interested in supplements.

It's one of the big tools naturopaths have and started working with one of the leading professional supplement companies back in the day. And so I feel like I've just been in and around the space for, you know, most of my time since the Navy, you know, going back 25 years now.

In terms of Neurohacker Collective, you know, we, we're probably more known, as you mentioned, for Qualia, which is our brand of supplements.

So like you'll see Qualia Mind or Qualia Life or Qualia Vision as example.

And the Neurohacker Collective, some first, many people sits more in the background, but the neurohacker idea is like we started first and foremost as a brain company.

And the goal and thought process was if we want to make the world a better place, one of the most direct ways is by making people's brains work better.

And we'll get into more of why that's true. And the collective was this almost we is smarter than me. So recognizing as a new co that a bunch of us had connections with really bright people and that collectively we could make a bigger impact.

Through things like getting on the Peptide Summit or, you know, having our own podcast to impact. 'Cause you know, health's more than just supplements.

That, that's great. And with the collective, you guys have gotten along because that's—

Yeah, well what we do is, I mean, we have our core team, but then we have a, like experts that we can tap into for different things, you know? And then I, like I said, we try to highlight people on our podcast that will know way more about some specific area than me or anyone else on our team. Could ever hope.

And you know, what, what is the name of your podcast and your website? Just to—

the podcast is called Collective Insights and the website is neurohacker.com.

Okay, cool.

And the same on, on social, like Instagram is a big social channel for us. We would be Neurohacker on, you know, Twitter.

Any podcast, how often?

The podcast, we usually have about 2 a month.

One's much more health and the other one's— we have 2 different hosts. So one's of female, Dr. Heather Sandison, hosts that. It's much more about health-related topics. The other one's Jamie Wild, who's best known maybe for things related to flow state. So much more about, you know, consciousness and, you know, so they have some of the same audience listens to both, but some are more attracted to one of the hosts as opposed to the other.

That's great. That's great. In fact, I was just reading a couple weeks ago or so that they're predicting that dementia is going to increase 50% in the next, you know, 10 to 20 years. I mean, I think the brain is— it just— we're getting assaulted from, from so many things. And I think you're right with the nootropics are going to— they're a must. And I think you need to start earlier until, you know, once all this stuff sets in and it's such a devastating issue when you lose your mind. Doesn't matter how healthy your body is, it's forget it, you know?

Oh yeah. And just think of over the last, you know, like almost 2-year period, you know, the, all the, you know, social isolation, stress, all the mood and of cognition have really been taxed even for, you know, not old brains for everyone.

I'm telling you, like here in California, the People's Republic of California, it's everyone is just so stressed out. And you know, the whole, you know, drug use, alcohol use, overdoses, and all these psychological illnesses are just going crazy. Everyone, you know, is just stressed out of their mind.

Yeah. And the way, I mean, this is going to obviously oversimplify it.

Two of the biggest jobs of the brain is predicting the future and keeping us safe.

And so the brain and really any complex system, a huge chunk of what it's doing is anticipating the future and trying to be prepared for it. And everything that it would've predicted going into COVID for any of us alive today would've completely changed, right?

And the way energy is a huge theme for both, you know, like cells, cellular health, but also for brain, like the brain estimates are it's 2% of the weight of our body and uses 20% of our energy.

So it's just a huge consumer of energy.

And so I'll throw out a question to you and see if you know the answer. So if we had an expert pianist, someone able to play piano well enough to perform in a symphony versus someone just learning the piano, whose brain would be using more energy?

I would say the person learning, I would guess.

A lot more, right?

Expertise like part of the benefit of expertise is it, you really dampen down how much energy. So anytime there's something new, the brain, like, just think of learning, that simply is a way to say it. The brain has to use a lot more resources for that learning.

Always. And I, I think it kind of goes to just life, like, you know, go outside your comfort zone. And I see so many people which is not me. I get so bored so quickly, and I could not do the same job every day. But I know people that if they deviate at all, they go crazy, you know. And I know my ex-wife's mom worked for AAA for like 40 or 50 years. She goes, if you make me learn anything new, I'm quitting, you know. And so he had a different mindset, but, uh, Well, in, in part, like that's a, it's almost an adaptive thing, right?

Energy is a, a resource, right?

That if we use some here, we have less here. So in a way, what those people are indicating is like, I'm conserving my energy, which, you know, isn't not smart, right? Like that's, but flexibility is an important, like it would be a more, a higher cognitive thing.

Yeah.

Where, where you can, where you can tolerate. And I think a lot of these peptides and supplements allow the cells to survive that stress, you know, and also give it enough energy to deal with that. Right.

And like, my belief is when our brain has more energy, we innately can get to these higher cognitive things.

So what I think of executive functions and social cognition as the top of the pyramid.

So if, if we're short in brain energy, The things that are going to not get done would be, you know, prosocial things and empathy, or like executive function would be the suite of things that includes changing our mind.

Right.

So when we don't have enough like mental energy, those behaviors, we just, we can't get to.

And I think that's true. I just think of like when you're sick, low energy cells aren't working. You're short with people, you have no patience, you have no empathy. It's just, I need this now, you know. And I think it's, it's very true with a lot of brain energy. I got energy, you could know, don't worry about that. I'll take that on. I'll take this on. I think it's very true. And I think, you know, look at all these diseases, they would have in common, you know, mitochondrial dysfunction, all these neurodegenerative diseases, and just Everything's a vicious cycle, as you know, immune dysfunction, mitochondrial dysfunction.

Yep.

You know, reactive oxygen species, all, all these things. So yeah, tell me about what, what, what are some of your favorite, like supplements or, or tactics I should say for health? Like what, what, what do your products target? Sure.

So as I mentioned, we started first and foremost with just one product, QualiMind. And it, and the idea was that if the brain has more resources, like better able to perform, lots of other things then kind of take care of themselves. So even like you and I have both worked with patients at different points.

You're still actively doing it. I'm not.

But one of the things as a naturopathic doctor, we would routinely ask people to do is to change their behaviors.

Right. So I just mentioned you and I doing our normal behaviors that we would be asking someone else to do. We would be like the expert pianist.

It's not taking our brain nearly as much energy to do those things as it would take someone trying to start those and become good at them. Right. So one of the things I think in terms of where nootropics benefit really anyone is that if we're needing to make change in behaviors or some other areas of our lives, our brain needs the extra plasticity, the extra energy that things like nootropics can benefit.

Well, what is a nootropic?

Oh yeah. So a nootropic, like quick history lesson.

So the idea of nootropics was started in the '50s and '60s by a Romanian chemist and psychologist. He was trying to create a sedative, basically something to induce sleep and made piracetam.

So it was the first of a category called racetams and he found it wasn't very good at inducing sleep, but when he gave it to animals, it helped them be more resilient to things that would normally affect their ability to learn or their like behaviors. It was essentially neuroprotective, so it was protective of the brain. And so he coined the, the word nootropic in the early '70s, and it basically, it's from two Latin or French words, and it would mean something like bending the mind or mind bender. But think of it, plasticity would be what we would think today, right?

Like that idea of neuroplasticity, something that's gonna upregulate the ability to retrieve information, learn new information, and then put it all together to make sense.

So nootropics in a general sense would be things that help us think better, right? Like anything related to having the brain perform better. And usually with the implication that we're not trading off performance for some unwanted side effects. So something like caffeine would be a nootropic, but in a fairly narrow dose range. So a lot of nootropics are not more is better.

I think of them like Goldilocks and the Three Bears, right? There's a just right amount or just right range where they tend to have the, the more nootropic benefits.

You know, as the research is there. And I think it's nice. And you look at, I think, you know, standard medicine moves so slow. And where all the stuff is happening is this integrative space, right? And supplements, of course, the FDA hates it, you know, because they're with Big Pharma. But you know what it reminds me of is I think it was in high school, my mom had the book from Dirk Pearson and Sandy Shaw, Life Extensions.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That they're really big into nootropics then. I don't— yeah, that was a long time ago.

Yeah.

I mean, it dates back, like I said, to that early '70s with, you know, the racetams. And then, you know, the Russians did some like and created compounds like Noopept.

But what, you know, modern really jumpstarted in Silicon Valley in the 2000s with these high performers, you know, Code Monkeys and other people involved in startups that rely on their brain and, you know, like being able to focus and perform at a high level for, long chunks of the day, starting to experiment with nootropics. And then I think the movie Limitless around 2011 came out of that.

So nootropics were definitely adopted by high performers in Silicon Valley in the 2000s, college students kind of at the tail end of that.

And then, you know, Reddit's like, there's a subreddit on nootropics. And I think one of the things that's then emerged is a lot of these, you know, what you think of as almost tonic brain tonic herbs from things like Chinese medicine or Ayurveda, it turns out like these have nootropic qualities, you know?

So yeah, they've been using for hundreds of years, right?

Yeah.

So they didn't have like the term nootropic like we use in Qualia Mind and Ayurvedic.

We use the seed of a tree that's called, it would translate as the intellect tree.

The plant is Scholastica. And so that seed has been used for, you know, basically more than 2000 years. To do things that we would, you know, collect, like collectively think of as helping someone think better.

Gotcha. Gotcha. And it kind of seems like, you know, I guess they found out, you know, used to think that, you know, that stimulants like cocaine and Adderall and things, I would think they're nootropics for a period of time, you know, and, but then you get that downside to them, right?

So those, like a lot of people would try to use nootropics as an example to maybe get off Adderall. Adderall will get them the focus, but there's, there's trade-offs they're getting at that. So that's, you know, I think, you know, our audience can probably relate, like caffeine is by far the most widely used nootropic substance on the planet. You know, whether that says coffee, green tea, mate, super popular, but what caffeine does really, really well is it helps with arousal. So staying alert and awake, and then in neuroscience and in actually the DSM-5, there's this idea of cognitive domains.

So, you know, so you have a memory domain, you have executive function, you have attention, you have language, you have social cognition, and where coffee excels is in that attention domain. So reaction times and being able to process information quickly, but that happens at a relatively modest dose of coffee.

Performance bell-shaped curve where you want to be aroused enough, but overarousal, you don't, do well.

Right.

So that's the, I think of that's like, I call that the Yerkes-Dodson curve, but that upside down curve, you know, so more like a hill than a hole is very true for a lot of nootropics. And so you're trying to, like, what I would say, one of the things we do is we stack different things together. So more than a certain amount of caffeine, you're not gonna get further.

You just start to slide down the opposite end of the hill.

But if you made something like theanine, which would be an amino acid from green tea, that gives you something that the caffeine doesn't.

So by stacking, you know, some of these different things together that we would have in Qualia Mind, you start to then be able to tap into these other cognitive areas, you know, like executive function or social cognition.

And my goal would be, you know, so caffeine, like I love this study. So they gave people caffeine alone, basically with water or caffeine with something with sugar.

I think it was sugar and then caffeine and yogurt. And over the first 30 minutes, those things related to attention improved no matter what, you know, so people processing speed, reaction times, arousal were all better, but 60 to 90 minutes later, the caffeine and water like tanked. They were more fatigued than they were starting, but caffeine again, and then, right.

But caffeine, when it was taken with something the brain could use to make energy.

Performance stayed higher.

And the other thing that happened when caffeine was alone, by, you know, 40, 50 minutes, irritability and those downsides of caffeine went up.

But when caffeine was taken with what I think of as resources, it didn't. So like mood stayed better.

So I know when I, you know, make up nootropic formulas, I'm always looking not what happens immediately, but what happened over the whole day.

'Cause you, my goal, if someone took one of our nootropics, is that You know, they're going to perform better the first couple hours, but they're not going to have a crash in the afternoon, but they're going to be able to sustain that high level of brain performance across, you know, their whole working day.

Yeah. We're in kind of a calm energy, you know?

Correct. Yeah.

And that's key. In all your research, what has been some of your biggest kind of favorites or surprises or, or what have you said, damn, this is awesome?

So, um, I'm trying to think off the top of my head. So that one with energy would be one. Well, what we get back to, I think one of the, my biggest wakeups was like the original nootropic when this Romanian researcher was trying to figure out what mechanism, you know, piracetam was working by. The earliest thing he published was, you know, he thought it had to do with improving ATP to ADP ratio, you know, so like mitochondria, right?

So I guess one of my biggest ahas, and this wouldn't be a surprise to you, is how frequently mitochondrial performance and dysfunction just show up in, in whatever area of health we're talking about.

And that if we can make that, like that community, right? 'Cause the way I think of mitochondria is that, you know, they're a network of things within each cell, right? So a cell could have hundreds to thousands of mitochondria, right? And it's that network that's constantly reshaping itself.

To better match us to our environment. Right.

So I think one of the big ahas that's come up in my life for sure has been that role of this incredible, like, network of mitochondria. And you mentioned in my biography, when you're reading in, was chronobiology. And so just for your audience, chronobiology would be the study of timing.

So circadian rhythms, seasonal rhythms for women, menstrual rhythms. but even faster rhythms like heart rate variability.

So the other like big aha is how important when we do something is.

So interesting. And that's 'cause like all, I have the worst circadian rhythm. You know, I had Lyme since I was born, so like everything was screwed up and night is day and day is night to me. I mean, I get energy at midnight and I like, I can stay awake for 2 days on Nothing. Just, and then I'll go to sleep and it's not healthy. I can feel it. You know, and I think it's kind of like the shift work and all those things. I think there's a lot to, you know, doing what evolutionarily we were supposed to do when the lights went out. You know, we didn't have TVs going and, you know, all these lights and EMFs and throw all that stuff in there and all these toxins, pesticides, you know, you name it, we're getting bombarded. So I really think people need to supplement. I think just standard nutrients that, you know, from the food ain't gonna do it anymore, you know, because we have too many assaults on our body.

And I think, you know, I'm sure you've heard it many times, like, well, I eat a good diet, or I eat a balanced diet, or, you know, however someone would, you know, mention that.

But most diets are gonna have holes somewhere, you know.

So like choline, so one of the again, like nootropics, the cholinergic system was again, one of the early things, right? So things to boost acetylcholine basically, 'cause acetylcholine is like, for the audience, think of that as the neuroplasticity molecule. So when it becomes important to like learn something new, our brain will release acetylcholine almost as a message saying, hey, this is important, pay more attention to this, right?

So to make that, we need choline in our diet.

And the Institute of Medicine doesn't have an RDA like for vitamins for choline, but they have an advised amount.

When I've seen things published on it, they estimate somewhere just above 8 outta 10 adults don't get enough choline in their diet. So it's not like they're getting none, but day in, day out, there's a shortfall, right? And if there's a shortfall in that, we just can't do all the things, you know, the liver needs that cell membranes, mitochondrial membranes, and then this neuroplasticity molecule. So, you know, one of the things I think of with nootropic, especially with our products, is what things, even in a good diet, might benefit by augmenting kind of the pool of those nutrients. And often good things happen when we fill in those gaps. You know, we don't have to do 2 or 3 times that.

Choline's again, like caffeine, not a more is better. But making sure that your tanks are full and maybe you've got a little surplus to draw on if, you know, something happens where we have to learn a lot more. Yeah.

Or it's interesting, like I found, you know, I got addicted to aspartame. I'm telling you, you know, it's an excitotoxin and it's addictive. And also I started stuttering so bad, like I couldn't carry a cell phone. I could not answer my phone. I was gonna go to a stuttering clinic and then I read an article saying aspartame caused stuttering and I went off that 2 weeks later, no more stuttering. And then if I would accidentally get some, a drink or something, I would just start stuttering immediately.

Wow.

You know, but it just shows that, and, but it was very hard to get off of. I didn't want to, you know, I think it's more stimulating than caffeine, at least for me, and woke me up, but I thought, great, but it was overstimulating and I stuttered. You know, it's pretty amazing with all that stuff. What would you say are your kind of your, your go-to nootropics or things you would tell anyone, hey, these are the 4 things you have to get in your system.

Within like the nootropic community, there's this saying, your mileage may vary. And the idea being that we're all individuals, you know, that biochemical individuality sense. And so, you know, what we've seen in the studies that Neurohacker Collective has done is that when we say we make a formula like Qualia Mind or Qualia Focus, we'll get some percentage of people that are super responders.

They, they just get a way better response than average.

And then we'll have a lot of people with a good response. And then for some people it just doesn't work.

I mean, they take the tiniest bit of a supplement and they're like, oh, I'm jittery. I'm like, gimme a break. You know? But yeah, then other people take a whole bottle and go, well, nothing's happening, right?

Yeah.

And, and so I think I would invariably start with the brain unless there's a good reason to start somewhere else. In part because if I was coaching people, I'd be asking them to make some behavior changes, you know?

So I, I want the brain to have more resources through that time period.

So I would start personally with Qualia Mind, which is a very comprehensive nootropic stack with, you know, a couple different forms of choline that can get into the brain. Caffeine in that just right amount, you know, some great, I, I, I do like all the choline products.

I, I think they're key and we like to use a lot of those. Yeah.

Yeah. So that for your audience, you know, when you're looking at what cholines are best to get into the, the brain, cuz sometimes in research I'll see the phrase brain essential nutrients and, and the idea is there's some things the brain can make and a whole bunch other it has to pull from our bloodstream, right?

So we have to, you know, supply it outside the brain.

And, and choline are one of those things and, and alpha-GPC and citicholine, you know, so those are the two that can easily get into the brain.

They're used somewhat differently in a really complicated biochemical cycle.

So those I think of as the two best nootropic choline and the, but the other thing, like if someone, you know, okay, I don't want to take those to like, and you're willing to eat more egg yolks, right? Like egg yolks are really rich in, yeah.

Are they good or they bad? Yeah. You know, right.

So I wouldn't say eat unlimited that, but eat enough to make sure you're getting, you know, good dietary intake of choline. 'Cause like I said, we can kind of guess on average most people are running 100 to 200 milligrams short a day of what they need.

So are you getting any pushback from, you know, the FDA seems to be Yeah. With supplement, of course, the meds, they're really cracking down on anything. If it's safe and effective, they want to get rid of it. And seems the same with supplements.

The only thing that's the FDA, I mean, they still haven't approved things like the cannabinoids, right?

So lots of, like everything from water to you name it has those, but they're, they still haven't essentially said that these are dietary supplements. And the other thing that's happened in the last year is N-acetylcysteine, which, you know, it's been used.

And functional medicine, integrative medicine for decades and decades, they all of a sudden said, hey, we don't think this is a dietary supplement because it was used as a medication back in the '60s.

Yeah. But it was cuz people were using it safe and effectively for COVID is the problem.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's, and it, it makes me sick to tell you the truth.

So that's, and they didn't outright ban it or anything like that. They basically just wrote a letter saying, you know, this is our position.

And then I know amazon.com moved then to just remove any supplements that contained it.

They leave everything vague that they can enforce whatever they want. Kind of.

Yeah. So it was a shame 'cause it's, I mean, it's a great nutrient, super safe, it's, you know, very well studied. So we had it in two of our formulas and switched it out for L-cysteine instead just so that we wouldn't be dinged on Amazon.

Yeah. And there, and there's so many supplement companies, you know, we're kind of in that space and, and it's like we've tested people's supplements and some of 'em have none of what's supposed to be in there and the claims are crazy. And I just look at your product, it just, I think you guys done such a great job of formulating, you know.

I think we're very unusual. Like before we launch any product, we've done basically I would call N of 1.

you know, so we've made up small batches. I've taken it, I've got some other, you know, kind of friends in the collective to take it, you know, so we, well, we had mentioned the senolytic before we started.

So the senolytic that we're testing right now, I, I've already taken, right?

So before I would ever, you know, move to, oh, trust me, I've almost killed myself doing, trying to find toxic doses of things. Yeah.

Once we kind of pass that stage, we'll make enough to do a small study, open label, so not placebo control, but we'll do what we would think of as a safety tolerability and does it work study, right?

So by the time we move a product to market, we've already, you know, often made adjustments to the formula to make sure that whatever we're selling does what it's supposed to do.

And I mean, my experience—

that's so far and above what— yeah, in the supplement industry, 99% of the supplement world, you know?

Yeah. And so because of that, you know, we don't launch a lot of products, we don't have a lot of SKUs, but we stand behind what we do have and offer. I believe it's a 100-day money-back guarantee because, you know, like, you know, like I mentioned, there's a subset of people that are non-responders to things. We don't want them to be dinged, but we're confident that most people will get—

and I'm sure they're getting benefit even if they don't Yeah, you know, think they feel it. And, and, and we have, you know, people also fill out, you know, like their overall average energy, sense of well-being, and then 10 symptoms, frequency and severity. And they'll say, no, nothing's changed. And we go back and look, well, wait a minute, you were a 2 here. Oh yeah. You know, we saw that.

So I'm sure like you are aware, like, like screen times, digital eye strain symptoms.

So when we were testing out Qualia Vision is what we call it, but it was put together really for screen time stress, right? Because our, like, especially when COVID hit and screen time leaped up, like I saw statistics that an average person was on a screen 13 hours a day, you know, so crazy, right? So Qualia Vision was very much made as protection for that. And so when we were doing the study for it, we had people do like a baseline Digital Eye Strain Questionnaire. And then, you know, we then every week we had them recomplete another one. And what was funny is some people noticed, like some people would've gone from a crazy high score, say 28 to 30, down to a 5 and say, well, I didn't notice anything, right? Where others it was, you know, like they were more attuned to it.

So yeah, no, it is funny. I think it's an evolutionary thing. See, Like you don't want to remember bad things, you know, it's like, I think even the relationships, all you remember is the good things, right? It's like, you don't want post-traumatic stress for everything you do.

Well, and the other thing we do a week after our study stops and people have been off whatever that the product that we're testing for a week, we'll email them back. And quite often that's when they noticed what it was doing.

Damn, I didn't realize.

Right.

Yep.

Yep.

I think it's totally true. Well, hey, I think you're doing great work. Keep it up. And can you name off your websites and products again?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So one, one thing that we wanted to invite your audience, if you go to neurohacker.com/guide, you can get a free neurohack or basically our guide to neurohacking, right? That touches on a bunch of the big picture things. So yeah, definitely do that.

Like I said, we're neurohacker.com.

From there you can, you know, find our Collective Insight, but you can find our blog, our Collective Insights podcast. But you know, if you're using Apple, like iTunes to find our podcast, it's Collective Insights. And our products, our, our brain products, our premier one is Qualia Mind, but we have a fewer capsules, less expensive, still a great nootropic called Qualia Focus that as an entry level, I highly recommend it. We've got for people that are on computers a lot, the Qualia Vision product. For people concerned about healthy aging, we have a product, Qualia Life, that's got the NAD portion, mitochondria, a bunch of things we didn't get to. We've got a great immune product, which I personally take every day called Qualia Immune.

I gave everyone's immune system a shot. I'm telling you.

Right.

And, and there's this thing within immunity called basically trained immunity.

So think of it like exercise. For our immune cells. Like certain compounds make especially the innate immune system. So macrophages and K cells bigger, faster, higher performing. So we created Kwai Immun with that in mind.

So it's not things, it's not geared so much to take when you get sick, though there's things that would work for that. I think of it much more as exercise for your immune system.

So. And then we, we have a product called Qualia Night, which is, I talk about as a nighttime nootropic.

So it's something you would take at dinnertime that's got a lot of nootropic herbs, but ones that are more calming. And so it, it generally gets categorized as a sleep product cuz that's the side effect of being calmer and more relaxed going into your evening is usually it's easier to fall asleep and we get better quality sleep. And then we just launched Qualia Skin. Which is basically like beauty from within would be the category. But I like the idea of Eat Pretty. It's basically a food, lots of superfruits in it and other ingredients that are designed to basically create healthier, better looking skin from the inside.

I have not seen that one. I gotta check that one out.

Oh, just have your team email us and we'll get you, you know, a couple bottles. And that, that's one that we recommend like it's slower to change things from the inside out. So that's one.

Our study on that we did for 3 months before.

Really?

Yeah.

I mean, just, I mean, studies aren't cheap, you know? And, and you guys have studied all your products and published and it's very impressive.

Thank you. Thank you.

And, and thanks for having me on.

It's been a pleasure.

Yeah. It's so nice to meet you and I do think you're just doing it the right way. So thank you and keep it up and thanks for sharing all the information.

My pleasure.

Great. All right, take care.

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