Hack Your Health: The Ultimate Guide to Peptides and Biohacking

Welcome to the Peptides and Longevity Podcast, redefining aging and transforming health. Each week, Dr. Kent Holtorf will dive into groundbreaking science, innovative therapies, and the future of health and longevity alongside visionary physicians and experts. We'll explore how peptides, cutting-edge medicine, and lifestyle strategies can redefine the way we age. Get ready to transform your health, optimize your vitality, and unlock the secrets to a longer, healthier life. Let's get started.

All right, this is Dr. Kent Holtorf with another episode. Today we are graced with the presence of Natalie, uh, Nidam, really remarkable person, and she has a huge internet Facebook following, and she'll be talking about peptides for biohackers and really talking about real life, you know, experiences. And her knowledge base is huge. Uh, she has a podcast, but I'll give you her bio. But Natalie, thanks so much for being on.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm honored to be here. It's a pleasure. It's great to meet you finally. I've heard so much about you, so—

oh, don't believe it. And so, no, I— the same here. And you're just doing great work, and your knowledge base is huge, and just your experience and hearing back from real people, you know, is, is great. So a little bit about Natalie, amazing superwoman. She's a self-proclaimed science geek with a passion for human health. She's certified holistic nutritionist, Aperion Academy of Epigenetic and Epigenetic Coach. And we had a number of people from Aperion on, and as a member of the first graduating class of Bulletproof Roof Training Institute. In her teens, she fought with ongoing health and digestive issues. She learned many years later to tap into her body's own healing and repair mechanisms and now wants to share her knowledge to help others take control of their health. And her unique method blends an array of human performance fields like neuroscience, personalized nutrition, nutraceuticals, biohacking, peptide therapies, ancestral health, and resilience training. She works with an international roster of clients, one-on-one guide each one tapping their own unique genetic code to personalize supplements, nutrition, and lifestyle in order to deliver results that last for a lifetime, which is really key. It's bringing it all, all together. And very few people, especially very few doctors, are able to do that. She's host of the Biohacking Superhuman Performance Podcast, which I suggest you check out. And she runs a large and growing health optimization community on Facebook. And she gets like 50 requests to join her Facebook a day. So my God.

I did for a while. Facebook took care of that.

Then they, this whole censorship, they kind of knocked her down for a while. And man, I wonder if the Kardashians get that many requests.

Well, yeah, I'm sure they do. I think they get more. Anyway, I just changed the name of the group and everything got better.

So yeah, so it's that whole, it's driving me crazy with the censorship. I think the word biohacking now is, is forbidden. And so it was called Optimizing Human Performance. She lives in Toronto and Toronto and Canada is, I don't know who's getting worse, US or Toronto with all this stuff.

Contest, right?

With, with her husband and mini Labradoodle Cole. So thank you so much for being on. I'm very excited for this, this interview because I, you know, you've been out there in the trenches and hearing back from people and what works, what doesn't, what their complaints are, you know, you know, and, and how everything works and, and other things that work with peptides. You know, it's not just take a peptide and, you know, and live forever type thing. Um, but yeah, so how How did you start all this? What— tell me about how it all began.

So, you know, it's— I mean, I guess how it all began was in— I, growing up as a kid, I always wanted to be a doctor. And so I went to college, I studied human physiology. And, you know, it's funny, I think I had some health issues at the time. And that kind of threw me off course a little bit. And I spent most of my career as a salesperson in the advertising world as an adult, but I was always kind of— I was always a fitness instructor. I always had a hand in health somehow. And until one day I woke up, I was like, you know what? Nobody's paying me enough to do this. I miss— I missed science. I missed the whole, you know, I was always fascinated by the human body, like this miracle, that machine that we all own. Like even the most broken body, when you think about it, it's like there's so much going going on in there every minute of every hour of every second, right? Like all these processes. Anyway, so I went back to school, I became a holistic nutritionist and then I became, and then, you know, you become a nutritionist and you're like, awesome, now I know everything I need to know. Of course, nothing could be further from the truth. You really start learning the minute you leave school. Then I became a Bulletproof coach. Then I really got fascinated by epigenetics. And then I went to a conference and I heard about peptides and And as they say, the rest is history.

Yeah. I think really it's fine. The standard, whatever degree doesn't make that much difference. It's what you learn after. And I think that's the problem with so many physicians. I mean, they're still practicing what they learned in medical school and residency. And it's— there's so much to know. And the more you know, the more you know you don't know. And we found like when we send a patient back, like better than, say, doctors treat for 10 years and they go back to them, you think they're going to be happy. They're usually mad. And the less a doctor knows, the more adamant they're right that whatever you're doing is just crazy, you know, because, you know, they've made up their mind. Don't confuse it with the facts, you know. But yeah, I mean, so it's continually learning. And I think it's also key to happiness, you know, having a passion. Yeah, I think makes a big difference. And the fact that you're just helping so many people because we need more people like you because, you know, you got the doctors and, you know, we're usually very geeky and we can't talk to patients very well and explain anything.

That's the case for you, actually.

And I, I take it as a comment. People go, you don't seem like a doctor to me. I'm like, thank you, you know, I'll take it. Especially my younger days, a little crazy. But yeah, no, I, I think that's great. And so how did peptides— when did those come into your world?

So they came in a few years ago now. I went to a conference. I sat in on a talk. And you know, when you go to conferences, I don't know about you, but, and especially like some of the conferences I go to, like some of them, the ones I go to, I don't leave the conference room. I sit there and eat up the whole thing. And then there's the other conferences where you basically spend your whole time in the exhibition hall because you're, especially some of these biohacking ones, because there's all the cool stuff is out there, right? You wanna know what's new. And this one conference, and I think I went to 4 talks, and the one talk I went to was on peptides. And I literally sat there. I think my mouth was on the— like, my jaw was on the floor. I was like, get— like, how is this possible that this exists and I've never heard of it? And at the time, I still believed that I had shiny object syndrome, and I was like, no, no, no, no, I don't need another thing. You know, I don't need another course. I My husband keeps telling me, you know everything you need to know, Nat. You don't need anything else. And I have now redefined my shiny object syndrome as the fact that I'm just a lifelong learner. I just need new stuff all the time. Anyway, I came home and I came— and you know what it was? I think I heard a podcast. And it may have been a podcast with Jean-Philippe Raymond, the owner of CanLab, who I think you know. And I was like, all right, that's it.

Sponsored the summit. So we'll get it.

And he's in Quebec. I'm in Ontario. He's French. I speak French. I thought, I'm just going to call this guy up and pick his brain. And there was no turning back after that. After that, I just—

He loves to talk. So that's good.

Yeah, he's the best. So we started talking and then I met a guy here who is a bit of a cowboy. He put me on this crazy peptide protocol that worked really well for about a month until my immune system decided it wasn't having certain peptides. And, you know, it's interesting because that experience has really shaped the way that I guide people when I help them with peptides, because one thing I've learned about peptides is you can't assume that the body is necessarily ready to receive. I mean, there are certain peptides you get a lot more latitude with, but many cases, particularly when people are very unbalanced, you I mean, I don't know what you found, but I personally, and maybe because I'm not a doctor, I'm a little more cautious. I like to give myself a little bit of time to kind of level out the playing field, as it were, like give them the time to level out the playing field from an immune system perspective before we start to introduce the other working peptides, as it were.

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Yeah, and I think what you found is actually very true. And even with myself, so when I was— we talked a little bit off air— is when I was sick, I was reacting to almost every peptide, you know, big red marks. And because I was just so much of this Th2, Th17 allergic, you know, response was just ready to go. Then as I got better, I'm like, hey, I can take that peptide. You know? And so we find that and some are more prone to it, like CJC epimorale.

Yeah. That's the one I get the calls from people in the car going, holy crap, what's going on? Why am I so itchy? Yeah.

And the nice thing is sometimes it goes away and, you know, and like where I found a lot of mine did, but I feel like full of statin and I still want to take that, you know, for lean muscle and stuff, which is, it's expensive and hard to find, but I still can't do that one, but I was at one time or other, you know, allergic or reacted to most everything. But then as I got better, then, then I wasn't. So I think that's very true. And it sounds like you kind of, did you start with the immune peptides?

Yeah. So my tendency is to start with the thymosin alpha 1, just because, and you know, it's, it's, and I've, you know, and I've, you learn a lot also from the people that you interview, right? So learning about thymosin alpha 1, how it's even anti-inflammatory and Even with people who don't seem to have inflammation, I think we all do.

Oh yeah.

We all have a degree of inflammation. And I'll use things like molecular hydrogen, I think are amazing for—

I like it.

—just to balance things out, just for oxidative stress. And it's not over anti-inflammatory or antioxidant, but it just seems to be almost adaptogenic. And so you have these tools like the thymosin alpha 1s and the molecular hydrogens that are balancing effects. They're not boosting or suppressing anything. They're just allowing you to create a foundation to build from. And then it's not even just compounds. It's one of the things I find in the group that I run, and I swear they must sit there going like, she's only got— like, this woman sounds like a broken record. But I keep telling them, until you're sleeping, until we've We've helped you improve your diet until at least— and I don't care what you do. I'm fully agnostic when it comes to diet. I don't care if you're keto or carnivore or paleo or whatever. I mean, I'm not as friendly to vegan, but whatever. I mean, I don't care what it is, but until you found that diet that works for your body and where you are today and you're sleeping and you're managing your stress and you've dealt with major stress problems. Putting peptides into a body that's in an inflamed, crazy state, with a few exceptions, it's a little bit like sending a contractor into a burning house to fix your kitchen. It's not going to happen. I like that.

Yeah. Oh, I get, oh, so much crap from the doctors because I'm do as I say, not as I do. And, you know, Skittles for breakfast, Starburst, uh, now I actually I exercise religiously. I don't care, rain or shine, every 4 months for 8 minutes. I don't care. There's nothing to get in my way. So I'm like, so I'm very lenient. I don't want to be hypocritical and talk much about exercise or diet, but it really does make sense and it makes a big difference.

Yeah, no, I think it does. And I think, and frankly, and for me, because of what I do in my background, I'm not I'm— I— and you know what, truthfully, for, for me to even take on a client, it's, it's a mutual interview, right? It's true.

Like, you care more about the client than they care about themselves.

No, and I used to, right? I used to lay awake. Kill you. It will kill you and not sleep, right? And somebody once said to me— finally, I had a friend who said to me, Nat, if you're working harder than your client there's a problem.

Or you probably get this a lot too. So I get whatever cocktail party, some people come like, oh my God, I'm so sick, I got this and this and this. And I'm like, well, you know, you want to do this, this, this. And my doctor said I don't have that. I'm like, okay, well, how's that working for you? You know, it's like, why are you asking me? And you know they're not going to do it. I used to give people lab slips and all this, and they would almost never do it.

Well, and you're also not doing anybody a favor, including yourself, because you're not getting the full picture from them. They're not getting the full picture from you. And we were talking about this earlier. I mean, I'm a little bit kidding. Peptides like thymosin alpha 1, BPC-157, there are certain peptides that you can use before before you've done a lot of the hard work because it helps people to feel better sometimes. And if we can get someone feeling better, they have a bit more energy, they're better able to take on the work of fixing their diet and their lifestyle and that kind of stuff. So it definitely, like, with it to a certain point, there's a point where you can bring the peptides in just to help give someone a bit of a lift so they can do the harder work.

But because you fit, you know, a lot of people, they're working their butt off and trying to lose weight and nothing works. They go, screw it, forget it. But, you know, with the immune modulation, you just look at, you know, as you get older and your thymus involutes, and that's when you start getting all the, you know, chronic illness because it modulates your immune system, you know, low Th1 T-reg and high Th2, Th17. So Increase autoimmunity, degenerative diseases, inflammation. So just doing that, even the CDC says that 80% of the people over 50 years old have at least one chronic illness due to the involution of the thymus. So it's like, why not give people thymic peptides? You know, thymosin alpha-1, thymosin beta-4. Yeah, fluoride in the water.

You would think they would put thymosin alpha-1 in the water at this point.

Yeah, yeah. And, and, and just so— yeah, so thymus alpha-1, it's approved in like 30 countries for everything from cancer, chronic infections, and, and it's a very good, uh, Th1 booster, which is that good immunity that as you get older or you're sick or have that, that starts dropping, especially chronic infection. And then kind of simple way to think about it, so Th1 boosts this. Thymosin beta-4, it's the most prevalent in the body. It kind of does both, more of a balancing. And then like BPC-157 7. It's not a thymic peptide, but it kind of lowers that Th2. Now there's thymulin, which I like a lot, is probably the most anti-inflammatory. Yeah. And then we have the TB4 frag, which is TB4, just 4 amino acids, which has basically the majority of the immune modulating and healing. And it's about 10 times as potent as TB4 full chain based on weight. And it's orally, totally orally available.

But that's really interesting because thymosin beta-4, you know, it has those 7 frags, right?

Well, there's a bunch of frags and they all do different things. And one part stimulates mast cells, which you don't want. Now, if you give TB4, like, normally it's great for mast cells for most people because it's modulating the immune system. And all the mast cell guys, the mast cell gurus, I mean, on the Mast Cell Masterminds, they keep— they're stuck on direct mast cell inhibition. I'm like, Look upstream, look upstream, you know, and modulate, you get such a better response. But for some people, that one segment actually can override the other so that the TB4 frag takes that out. Now there's another segment that grows hair, okay, and the fragment that we have does not because it doesn't contain that. But we also have a TB4 hair frag coming out, you know. So, oh, that's exciting.

And then there's the one for musculoskeletal healing. That's very powerful, right? Yeah.

And so the fragment that we have has the healing and the immune modulatory effects.

I need to try that. Yeah.

It's more anti-fibrotic actually. Yeah. Than, than, than the full length, but it's hard to compare because it's, you know, if you go by weight, it's like 10 times as potent. So you don't need as much, right?

The, the PB4 itself is what, 43 amino acids? Like, it's a pretty big peptide. It keeps the price way down too, you know. Yeah, amazing.

Cool. Yeah, and we have it coming out for pets too, so people will buy it for their pets before they buy it for themselves.

Okay, let's give it to Rover, see how he does.

Oh yeah. Your golden doodle, is he down there laying next to you? No, she's locked out. Oh, okay. Yeah. So what do you see a particular type of patient or, or what's your bailiwick or your— really?

So my, my clients, because I don't call them patients, not being a medical doctor, I don't, I don't use the P word ever. But so in my, in my world, I'm really working with people mostly who are looking to optimize their performance. They want to find that edge. I don't typically work with people who have serious illness going on. At that level, I'm referring them out to other practitioners to get themselves to an even keel. But bottom line, anybody that comes to you, you're dealing with digestive— I'll deal with people obviously with digestive issues, musculoskeletal issues, sleep issues. What else? Like, you know, like basic, like, immune stuff going on. Like, so none of the very serious things, but basically what I'm doing is I'm taking them, you know, if their baseline is here, they're down here, we're getting them back to baseline. And then from there, the fun begins. We start, we start to move, move up the ladder to, to them best selves. And really, a lot of people are coming to me also— I don't love the term anti-aging. I will use health. Longevity. But bottom line is, you know what, what we all want, whether we articulate it or not, we want to be kicking ass until the day we're not. Right? Just don't— I just never— and I just had this conversation with someone, like, the last thing any of us want is to be, you know, incapable and dependent for the last X number of years of our lives.

So be in a nursing home with Alzheimer's and forget it.

You know, I think a lot of it we can influence, if not 100%. Like, of course, there's things we don't know and things that— and it's been decades, right? By the time we get started, I have 50-odd years behind me of whatever I've done. Well, not because for at least the last 15, I've been virtually perfect. Kidding. Right. But we can, we can do so much to turn back. The clock on this stuff.

Oh, I think it's totally true. And we just see it with Alzheimer's patients, Parkinson's patients. You know, we get ALS patients coming in, like they're jogging, right? And you send them back to the neurologist, like they're diagnosed with 3 different neurologists and they go, oh, must have misdiagnosis. Like, do they ever say, oh, wow, what did you do? You know? And it's interesting. And we have the ability and my— I'm surprised that people's unwillingness. Let's say they have Alzheimer's or Parkinson's or ALS, like, no, no, I'm fine, my doctor says I can't do anything.

And well, they, they put their faith in their doctors. I have a friend who died of ALS last year, and I talked to him about peptide— not that I would have run the protocol because that's, you know, that's above my pay grade, but I know people who work with ALS patients with peptides and He said, well, my doctor's so smart, he's like the top expert in his field, I'm going to talk to him about it. And I'm like, his doctor had him in a clinical trial for a drug that we knew didn't work. Yeah.

Or we had a person who said, no, I want to wait till this one particular clinical trial comes out. We're offering them exosomes and neuropeptides, and this clinical trial was on exosomes. And we're like, you can get those now, you know. But I think it's, it's about making a decision. They're so scared to make the wrong decision, they make no decision and just go, my doctor says, you know, well, they put their trust in, in someone.

Right. And, and they do the best they can, you know, they do the best they can. And it's not like we don't have, nobody has a cure and a guaranteed treatment, but I think that, I mean, for me, and it's such a personal decision, but I know for me, if I had an illness that was that definitively degenerative and terminal, There'd be no stone I would leave unturned. Oh, I agree. I'm that biohacker person, right? I'm that— and what does biohacker mean? Like, to me, a biohacker is someone who is so open to what are all the things I could be doing. And I will pull from all the disciplines, you know, like to be, as we were talking about earlier, like conventional medicine has its place. Like, I mean, we're very lucky to live when we and where we live. Like I had a preemie at 28 weeks. Like, neither of us would be here today if it wasn't for conventional.

I was born at 6 months. Yeah, I was supposed to be retarded or not live.

So yeah, him too. Meanwhile, look at you, and he's Mr. Rockstar over there.

I've been called the, the politically incorrect R-word, so I don't think so.

Anyway, so, so yeah, I, I think that it's, um, there's so much, there's so much more available to people now, but it takes, it takes It takes a person with the right open mind and also coming across someone like you, like a practitioner who has the experience and is willing to walk that road with them. Because that's what we're doing with them. That's what I do with my clients. That's what you're doing with your patients. We're, we're accompanying them on a journey.

And, and another weird response to me is they have a terminal illness, you know, they've been given a death sentence by their doctor, and then you tell them, here's some things, and here's you can talk to these people who went to treatment, you know, that or whatever. And like, well, no, it's not covered by insurance. Like, I'm like, okay. I mean, I remember when I had horrible Lyme and Babesia. I mean, just hit by a freight train, just felt so bad. It doesn't matter how much money you have. It's like you can't do anything. So I'm pretty much an atheist, but I said, you know, God, I know it's a woman because she hates me. But then I said, just take everything. Take everything, just get me better. Yeah, he held up his side of the bargain. I got divorced with someone who hired Gloria Allred, and I was left with less than nothing. So, and I'm better.

So you're better and you can make more.

That's the cool thing. It doesn't matter which one you have when you're, when you're sick. It's like, it, it's worthless. Yeah, yeah.

But You know, people can only do what they can where they're at, kind of. We, we have to meet people where they're at and help. That's, that's very true.

And, you know, I'm very ADD and want things fast and do, you know, tons of things at the same time. A lot of people, that's not their style, you know, where I'm like, you know, but you gotta come along with it, you know. What do you mean you don't want 20 things?

You know, respect and zen. Yes.

Yeah, no, it's, it's true. And so yeah, how often do peptides fit in your picture for your patients?

It, I look, it depends on the client and it depends on, I mean, to our point, to our discussion, it depends on their goals and where, and where they're at. Um, but I would say that I will introduce peptides at any given point depending on what their journey is. Like, if I'm dealing with digestive issues, I'm going to offer peptides up. You know, they're just— they're too— they're too powerful not to.

You have some favorite combinations, or—

yeah, I mean, I would say for— I mean, for basic stuff, I mean, BPC-157 and KPV are though these two peptides that kind of seem to— like, KPV just puts out the fire, if you will, so that BPC can come in and do its things. And I'd— those are probably my favorites, but I will always use the thymosin alpha-1 at some point in there. When it comes to things like musculo— musculoskeletal healing, which a lot of people are dealing with, whether it's from their workouts or sore knee or even with arthritis, again, the BPC-157, like that triad, the BPC-157, the thymosin beta-4, the CJC epimarelin, like that little family, that repair stack, I think we call it, people call it the Wolverine stack.

They work great together.

It's just magic, right? And you put someone on BPC-157, thymosin beta-4, you throw in a little bit of that CJC epimarelle, and whether you're dealing with, you're trying to help them with an elbow or their gut or anything else, you know that 3 weeks later they're coming back to you and they go, "Oh yeah, my stomach's feeling better, but you know, I've had this pain." I had this back problem for the longest time and it doesn't hurt anymore. Is that even possible? You're like, yeah, I didn't want to say anything, but yeah, yeah, that's possible. No, it's interesting.

So yeah, we'll give like, you know, BBS 157. Like, it's funny, we're at a conference and this head of the conference was just yelling at my girlfriend not to do something or whatever. And then she was limping. Here, take some of these. She goes, what is it? Just, you know. And then she comes back the next day, she's not limping, and she goes, thank you so much. Oh, you can do whatever you want. You know, it's kind of funny. So it's people that don't even believe in it, you know.

So my husband, who is a bit of a suffering husband, like, he kind of deals with my craziness and all the, you know, I've got a mouth taping right now. He literally is sitting there going, oh my God, like, I can't believe you're doing this to me. But he doesn't believe in any of this stuff. But he is an athlete, so he swims with the Masters Club. He plays hockey and he had this knee injury and finally he now couldn't push off the wall properly. And when he was doing his flip turns in the pool and he said, okay, I'll try that stuff. And so it's like, okay, are you sure? And he's like, yeah, just, just give it to me. All I used with him was BPC-157. That's all I did. And 3 days later, 3 days after we started, and this is like, it's actually still shocking to me, but I hit him kind of with a higher dose. And so 3 days in, he goes for a swim. He comes back that night and I'm not asking, I'm not asking. And he's like, you know, I'm not sure, but I think that maybe my knee felt a little better in the water today. I'm like, oh yeah, that's interesting. But you know, let's wait a little longer. Good. Yeah. Yeah. Morning. He went to play hockey and he came home and he was like, holy crap, Nat, my knee doesn't hurt. Like, I haven't been able to push off like that in forever. I'm like, yeah, I know. But I was even surprised, like, at how fast he responded. So not everybody's going to respond that quickly, but he, to me, is the acid test for all this stuff because he doesn't expect anything.

There's certainly no placebo effect, like nocebo, if anything, where you're expecting it not to work. Or for sleep, what do you like to do for sleep?

So for sleep, you know, again, like, people ask for sleep all the time. I would say that CJC and ipamorelin, if people can tolerate it, is a really nice thing. But the truth of both— and DSIP, again, it's a very complicated peptide. It's not straight up. Epidolon is another one because it helps to reset circadian rhythm. But this is the bottom line for sleep. If people aren't doing the work behind sleep, if they're not paying attention to their sleep hygiene, if they're not wearing the BluBlockers before bed, getting off the screens, doing— stop eating a couple hours before you go to bed, for the love of God. Like, just stop putting things in your mouth.

Yeah, I think the BluBlockers keep your Wi-Fi at night.

Yeah, like any of that stuff. So, or, you know, I mean, I love— I've got this thing called a Perfect Sleep Pad on my bed that cools my mattress. Like, that was magic for me when I got that thing. So I find with sleep and peptides, it's very hit and miss because fundamentally, if they're— if we're not taking care of the house here, I don't— I don't know that peptides do that much.

Yeah. Sleep is— but I love the combination of Delta sleep-inducing peptide, Epitalon, and either CGC, epimoralin, growth hormone, AOD. And it can be magic. For some people, yeah, but it's not a sleep med where you take it and you sleep. It takes a couple of weeks. And really, if you look at the Epitalon, actually KPV, the Delta Sleep, they're reducing inflammation in the hypothalamus. And, and that's where it's like with inflammation hypothalamus, like with the Lyme patient stuff, it just— you can't shut anything down. Right. And the— where's the EMFs? What they find, like if you just put a phone in the middle of rats for 9 days, they get lesions in the hippocampus, you know, in their brain. And it just activates the heck out of it so they can never get to sleep. And that combination is— can be a godsend, I think.

Yeah. Well, just getting people to turn their phones off at night is a thing, right?

Oh, yeah. And get that away. You know, put it on airplane mode, get it away. Blue blockers and then turning off the Wi-Fi. People that don't even believe. I said, just try it. So when I came back and goes, you know, I didn't believe it, and then I forgot to do it one night, I didn't sleep. I'm like, oh my God, you know. But I think EMFs are a much bigger problem.

Yeah, I do think some people are more sensitive to Wi-Fi than others. I don't—

very much.

It doesn't— but definitely, I mean, look, but, but, but again, with the sleep, people have to be willing to, to go at it because it's, it's multifactorial. You That is one thing you cannot throw a peptide at it and think it's going to work. Yeah.

You could get lucky, but yeah, I find, cause I'll stay up 2 days to finish a project or whatever. I've been like that my whole life. Cause I've had Lyme my whole life and I didn't sleep anyways. And what I found really helps from where you just get that brain mush where you can't do anything and you're just like irritable. Is basically the Cerebrolysin, which you can't get anywhere else, Cerebropep, 5-Amino-1MQ, DiHEXylang, see, like the brain peptides and the mitochondrial peptides, MOTC. The MOTC, yeah. They keep your brain working where otherwise they're mush, you know? And I know it's like though, when I don't sleep for 2 days, it's kind of like, okay, I know I feel like I'm aging, you know? But at least I can keep my brain because everyone's yelling at me, can I get this? You know, it's a month late, you know, like supposed to be I'm going to talk and all of a sudden they text, "Are you ready to go on?" I'm like, "What do you mean?

What now?" Yeah.

So, I mean, but I learned that I can do that. I'm not saying it's a good thing to do, but it really helps.

But even DSIP in some ways mitigates the effects of lack of sleep, right?

Oh, it does. I mean, it lowers that inflammation, you know, so much inflammation, and then it will also reduce insulin resistance. So all those reduce hypothalamic inflammation, which is the cause of so many problems— insulin resistance, chronic pain, insomnia. We did a review article, HPA axis dysfunction and chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia, and we found that they're very similar. The only difference between fibromyalgia and chronic fatigue syndrome, really the same illness, but the fibromyalgia patients had more inflammation of the hypothalamus. Whereas the chronic fatigue syndrome patient, more inflammation in the pituitary, which makes sense. Pain centers there. Yeah, but they all have low hormones, low thyroid, even though they're on low growth hormone, right?

Which is why JC at Miller Island would be so magical for these guys. Just, I mean, assuming they'll— it'll respond to the stimulus, right?

Right. And that's, and that's the thing. So, you know, some people it doesn't, but then you give the other stuff And now the CJC at Moreland works. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Nice.

Yeah, cool. So, and so it's a big thing is gut and then musculoskeletal. Like, do you treat the neurodegenerative diseases, things like that?

Not typically, no. I mean, I will all support them. But that's not my, that's not my zone of genius, particularly. So I will work with a practitioner on that stuff because there's so much of the lifestyle and the diet and the, um, there's so much of the other stuff has to be taken care of. Like, I did work with a Parkinson's patient years ago, but that was before I even knew about peptides. But even then, just with molecular hydrogen, it's amazing what we were able to do.

What has been your feedback on that molecular hydrogen?

Yeah, I've got to tell you, like, I'm pretty amazed at that stuff. Like, I had a guy last year— I had two clients last year that had really bad arthritis in their feet, and which was weird, like, I'd never had people with bad arthritis in their feet. Well, actually, I had three, three people with arthritis in their foot or their ankle, and the first two I started with molecular hydrogen and Both of them experienced an incredible reduction in pain. One of them was willing to do the BPC-157 and he just about fell over and he was using your product. He was using the oral. He wouldn't do— he wouldn't touch a needle. So we had him do the oral and I mean, it fixed his gut. It fixed so many things, right? And then the third one, she came to me out of my group and she was looking for peptides. So we did molecular hydrogen, BPC, thymosin beta-4, CJC, ipomerellan, And you know what? I didn't hear from her for about a month, and then I get an email from her, and I was like, oh no.

Yeah, you don't know, is it good or bad?

And she, she was a new person. She's like, she was like, I feel 20 years younger. I haven't had energy like this. And I'm— and she was gushing, right? I'm sleeping and I, I forget that my foot even has arthritis. Like, I can walk. Like, she was— and I was sitting there going, yeah, I know, but I didn't I mean, that's the thing.

You hear it so much. Yeah, yeah, I know.

But you're— but even then, you know, like, and so I find with molecular hydrogen is one of those products I feel is supportive with the peptides. It just helps the pep—

it's kind of the ultimate antioxidant, right? I mean, but it's an adaptogen, right?

So it doesn't overdo it. It doesn't— it just kind of— it's as a signaling molecule It just seems to flip the right switches.

And is there a particular brand you like?

So I, I support Alex Tarnava, who's the Drink HRW guy, because I love the work that he does. And he's the one that came— he's the one that came up with the formula for the tablets that dissolve in water. Oh, yeah.

I haven't tried. I use Mercola's.

But yeah, they're all the same. They're all coming out of the same factory, the same thing.

Same. They're all basic.

The only thing is that Alex has— he's developed a tablet that you drop into bathwater so you can soak. And you can absorb it transdermally. And that's a really cool product for people who have any kind of skin ailments or arthritis, that kind of stuff. And then the other thing that I use is— but this is for people who are willing to invest in hardware, as it were— is I interviewed on my podcast George Wiseman, who developed the AquaCure machine, which is the Brown's gas machine, which is kind of like molecular hydrogen, only different. And that thing produces crazy results for people. Wow.

Oh, let's check that out.

Yeah, it's these electron donor— it's like, it's when you put the anode and the cathode in the waters to make molecular hydrogen, if you don't have a membrane between them, it creates this fourth phase of water that— which is not the fourth phase of water that Pollack talks about. This is a different one, and it's almost— he describes it almost as a gel. And it's this electron charge, like this, this, this charged water. And so you can inhale the gas, you can drink the water, you can use it topically. It's— I've seen some pretty cool stuff happen with that stuff, but it's more of a commitment.

Do you like ozone? I love ozone.

I don't— I, I have a little ozone generator that I'm supposed to put in my sauna, only it's stuck in Florida where I have not been able to get to ever since Yeah, even, you know, the thing is like rectal ozone, you know, ozone water.

We like— you know, it's kind of the opposite of the spectrum of hydrogen, but it kind of ends up doing the same.

They all, they all balance out, right? So I mean, I don't typically use a lot of ozone in my practice. I found that the molecular hydrogen, it's just been with the peptides, they're a lot easier too. Yeah, and people are more accepting of it. It's easier for them to, to use it. Yeah, I'll totally agree.

You probably get a lot of weight loss issues and, and increased performance? What are some of your go-to things?

Yeah. So on the weight loss front, it really depends again on— and I know that, you know, a lot of people will use the Modessi, they'll use the 5-Amino 1MQ, stuff like that. I will sometimes also call in things like setmelanotide, which is a derivative of your— of melanotan-2, more for people who have— and it's really about what are the, what are the levers we need to push? Right?

Do you get increase in melanocytes with that?

Uh, very little.

I mean, and at least with PT-141, yeah, you got to watch out.

You do, but I think it's more when you live in a sunny climate. When you live in Canada like me, unless it's— if it's the summertime, like last summer, I, I did a run of setmelanotide for just to play with it for a while. I had the best tan ever. And I have to be careful with Milana Tan too because If I inject it, I get a stain at the injection site, which took me a while to figure out. And by the time I figured it out, I had a few spots on my belly. So I'll use it intranasally. Yeah, it's good for younger people.

If you have like dark spots, it's like— and I did it, you know, I'm ADD. So I'm like, this isn't working. And I'm doing the cream. And also there's a delay. And oh my God, I was the weirdest looking— I don't know, from African, whatever. Like, everyone's like, what the heck?

Well, if you don't get somebody else giving you feedback, you can go over the line. You can just, you know, you just walk around looking like you spent far too much time in the sun.

But except then I got argyria, so I was blue, which I can talk about. It's like, because I, when I wrote a paper, the Natural Imagenics silver hydrosol, which was great for us doing liters at a time, and you can't turn blue, it basically flushes out. Another doctor convinced me to do this other product, which actually is the silver salt, silver protein was deposited in the skin. And all of a sudden I was a Smurf and it's really considered irreversible. And then I took Dapsone and I got methoglobinemia and then I was fluorescent blue. And you know, I took methylene blue.

You are a biohacker, aren't you? Because this is, these are the stories of the biohacking community, right? I've almost— I did this, that happened. Yeah.

And everyone's like, oh my God, it looked like I was like, had makeup on, like blue Smurf makeup, you know?

Well, you're like that X-Men character, the blue guy. Yeah.

Yeah. So it's kind of funny for a couple of days, you're like, oh shit. And then if even after, till finally it's, you know, doesn't chelate out, but I found a lot of things help, phosphatidylcholine, a lot of things that if I got a laser and they're like, oh my God, It's like a tattoo, you know, because it was silver. You think I would be totally immune to any infection, skin infection, because it's embedded with silver, but it's pretty much gone now. But it's again thought to be irreversible. So, wow.

Well, you know, you don't look blue now. But anyway, but to answer your question on the weight loss side, I'm, I'm, I have a, I use a very light hand with the peptides because I really believe it comes down to balancing people's hormones. That's the other piece we haven't even really talked about yet. But if checking in on those hormones to make sure that they're balanced, and then again, like the sleep. I mean, it sounds so basic, but if you're not sleeping, if you're eating the wrong foods, if you're not moving, if you're not getting outside, you're not seeing the light, like you're going to stay stuck. And so I don't love to bring the the big guns in until we've done the work. But things like setmelanotide can be helpful for people so that we take away that constant need to eat while we're building the good habits. Yeah. So that when we can take it away, they now know exactly what they're doing. We've balanced the blood sugar, we've gotten rid of the cravings, we've taught the habits, and they're ready to kind of fly on their own. Yeah.

And, you know, we kind of started as a thyroid clinic because it helped me so much and You know, so many people are low thyroid, even have normal TSH. And, you know, we'll check everyone's basal metabolic rate and their basically speed of the relaxation phase of, of their brachioradialis, which is shown by the British Medical Journal to be better tests than the blood tests. And we're actually been trying to develop this test for 15 years, which will show that the TSH— you know, I've written review articles on our, which are available on our nonprofit National Academy of Hypothyroidism. But when people say, I have no metabolism, I've wrecked my metabolism, and people go, oh, you 'Oh yeah, sure, you're eating Ding Dongs in the closet,' and, you know, is that we find they're usually about 25% low. So in order just to stay even, they have to basically restrict 500 calories a day, and if they don't, they're going to gain, you know, basically half a pound.

Race to the bottom, right? Yeah, because it just gets worse and worse and worse. And so it drops more.

So we find T3, like, if you don't supplement with thyroid is keep your metabolism up, that long-term weight loss, very difficult. Absolutely.

Yeah. Cause you just keep hitting these new lower set points. And that's the thing I was going to say, like, I'm not going to give setmelanotide to someone who is already not eating enough. So it's really understanding where, what, what it is that's going on and what are the mechanisms that are working against the person before you can, before you can really help them. Because the people who come to us for weight loss, I mean, you know this, the people who come to us for weight loss are not the people who can go run around the block and eat a little less and lose 5 pounds in a week.

Yeah. They've tried that. They've been on every diet. They've tried it all.

Like there's nothing they can, they just can't, there's, they have nowhere left to turn. So clearly moving more, eating less is not their solution.

Calories in, calories out is not true for a ton of people. I mean, to some degree, you know? Yeah.

I mean, within, within reason. But I think that it's, it's, I think It's like everything else, right? Both are true. If you're metabolically healthy and you're overeating and not burning enough, you're going to put on weight. And if you stop overeating and you move more, you'll be fine. But most of the people—

you give someone a steroid, prednisone, they're eating the same, but they just gain weight.

They blow up.

Yeah. Turn on. So we do find a lot of people like, oh, we're fine. Even people not even insulin resistant, but leptin resistant. Yeah, you know, so leptin goes up when you gain weight, goes back to the brain, should go back to the brain, tell your brain, hey, we got enough stored energy, let's increase metabolism, increase your thyroid, lower your appetite, burn fat. But you find people with high leptin, just like people with high insulin resistance, the brain doesn't see it. So your brain thinks your body's starving, so it's increasing your appetite, telling the body store fat, lowers your thyroid, lowers your metabolism. Yeah. Which is really the hypothalamic inflammation.

Again. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that's why using that TA1 so often works because it brings down inflammation.

Yeah. Inflammation is, is, is the killer. And let's see. So where do peptides rank in your whole thing? And I'm sure lifestyle is, is— Yeah, they're right up there.

You know, it's like, it's like asking me to pick my favorite child. That's an impossible question. Oh, I can do that easily. No, no, but I think what I'll say about peptides is they've changed my practice. Like, they've changed my ability to be effective with people because they're the tiebreaker, they're the, they're the game changer, they're the thing that it's like it was the missing key for so many different things. And certainly on musculoskeletal healing stuff stuff. You can give people essential amino acids, you can give them bone broth and collagen and use all the stuff, but when you can bring a peptide on board for some of those things, like I've had a couple of people that I've helped where I've had orthopedic surgeons kind of be dumbfounded by the results. They'll never admit it. Well, actually, in one case, he's like, "All right, bring me the papers." I don't know what he did with it in the end, but This is a woman who had a nonunion joint fracture in her wrist and was heading for surgery. And she actually was in my Bulletproof class and she had heard that I was doing something with this weird stuff called peptides. And so she called me up and I said, "Oh, okay, well." And I gave her again, like it was a fairly aggressive protocol because we didn't have a lot of time. I think it took 8 weeks and she went for her next x-ray and she didn't need surgery. She was like, I— she— and she's in the medical field herself, and she was like, I can't even believe this, that this is even possible. And I'm like, me neither. Because I was like, okay, well, we'll try it out. And then my brother recently had a full tear in his quad. His knee was a disaster. It was his fourth joint, major joint. He had both shoulders and the other knee done. But in his case, we used peptides, but we also used hormones.

We optimized his hormones. They go together totally.

And his surgeon had told him he would not get full range back in his leg. And 3 months after his surgery, he went back and the guy was again like, oh my God, how did that even happen? Yeah. Yeah.

Full range of motion. And yeah. With Lyme, I did the same thing. I was supposed to get both hips replaced, rotator cuff, everything was just shredded. And this was years ago, but I went to the orthopedist upstairs, right? And then he goes, well, yeah, you need surgery. And he's limping. And then I'm kind of asking him like, well, you know, he goes, I had the same surgery. I'm like, well, why are you limping? He goes, well, my bone collapsed and I was in traction. I got nerve impingement. And I'm like, okay, you're recommending that? I said, I said, what about, you know, PRP and stem cells? And everybody goes, no, they don't work, you know, and did it, you know, within a year, 80% better. After a couple of years, you know, basically back to normal. Then I was doing every 6 months, like, you know, whatever, some stem cells, peptides, you know, we kind of use them.

Yeah. Like AOD-9604 with hyaluronic acid in a joint. You know, is, is— but I mean, that's not work I can do. That's work I can refer people out to. I mean, you need someone who's—

stem cells, exosomes are great, ozone, you know, and it's cheap. And, and so a lot of things work, but I've never had surgery, and, you know, and, you know, I could not lift my arm up above that. Yeah, yeah. And they don't want to believe it. But even— yeah, you kind of mentioned, you know, kind of game changer for your practice, and, you know When I had Lyme and I did, you know, 3.5 years, the highest dose IV antibiotics, 7 at a time, 3, 4 times a dose, was never any better. And that's when I went out looking for things and went to Europe and found peptides. I'm like, oh my God, you know, I was in heart failure and I couldn't stand up straight. So I'm like, you know, walking hunched over. And the cardiologist said, you know, you can maybe get 10% better in 10 years. And that's like, I can't live like this, you know. And then after I start taking them, after like even a couple of days, I felt a little change. I'm like, something's weird. And then I show up at his office like a year later and it's pretty much normal. And he's like, wow, that's interesting. But doesn't, you know, doesn't ask me what it was.

That radical remission thing, right?

There's a whole book, Radical Remission. You know, and that's what doctors will say. Oh, they'll say you'd rather believe it's a miracle. You know, you're an outlier.

We can't explain it. Yeah. And so we've really—

it's really totally transformed our practice because, you know, like with Lyme disease, we haven't been treating a lot of that, and we use antibiotics at their place. But, you know, what's kind of— Horowitz is awesome, a huge dose of antibiotics, and, uh, is we use them selectively. And we found, like, if your immune system's so low, like, that Th1 is, like, you know, natural killer cell function. Which monitors your body for infections and cancer, intracellular infections. Like, mine was zero, you know. And I remember I was in the ICU with sepsis and the nurse outside, I hear her talk to the other one, this is the guy with AIDS, but he keeps coming up negative for HIV, you know. And I'm like— and because the doctors did not believe in long chronic Lyme, you know. So I'm like, fine, I don't know what it is. Tell me what it is. Like, no, we No, we don't. You know, it's like no, no interest. But yeah, just— and so it doesn't matter how many antibiotics, because antibiotics never kill everything. Your immune system has to take over. So until you get your immune system up here, the antibiotics will work because they can knock it down here and your immune system take over, you know.

Well, you know, I think what's, what's amazing about peptides and, and what, what we, what we're— what we learn as we go is that because they're not ultimately foreign to the body. They aren't— unlike a drug that's basically trying to do something for your body or to your body, and to your point, like, there's a place for antibiotics. Sometimes the bacterial or viral load is just too high, like there's just too much for the body to deal with. But what the peptide does, it enables the body to do what the body does, and what the body can do, we have yet to be able to reproduce. So if you can kind of play those levers appropriately so that you're using the antibiotics or whatever it is appropriately without crushing the body and then bringing in something like a peptide that signals the body and reminds the body, we know how to do this. Like, I belong, I'm from here. You know, like it's, they're all in some way, shape, or form native to the body. They all, are extracted from naturally occurring compounds in our, in our bodies. So what you're really doing is just awakening the— reawakening the body's ability to do what it can do innately. Yeah, I think that's why we see such amazing things with peptides. And they're all—

they don't get, you know, they're not known for this, but they're so antimicrobial. And like, for instance, BPC compared to acyclovir for herpes viruses outperformed it at 1/1000th the dose, you know. And, uh, KPV for fungus, bacteria, parasites, like everything. TB4 also, you know, has the indirect— because raising the immune system, but also directly shown to be very antiviral and antimicrobial overall. So they have a lot of other effects that we kind of don't even think of them Right, or then you get like an LL-37, right?

But that one you kind of have to treat with— LL-37, we have to give a lot of respect.

Well, yeah, I, I hear it because like, so when I first did LL-37, there was no dosing. I could not find any study on dose. I'm calling people, no one knows. So I just draw it up out of the syringe and I take it and I go to work and oh my God, I was gonna like jump out of my skin. And then I had this guy who's now my partner with Integrative Peptides, but he was a drug rep at the time And he's like, I've never seen anyone like this. And I'm seeing patients and I'm just like, with a panic attack, I'm like, how are you today? And I'm just taking all this GABA and all this stuff. But yeah, so I took like probably 50 times the dose then. So yeah, we're very careful with LL-37. We start that later. But it can be a great addition.

Yeah. Well, it kind of— it's the cleanup crew, right? It's kind of like VIP. Like, it's the cleanup crew comes in at the end and finishes the job kind of thing.

Yeah. It also boosts, you know, stem cell function, as does TB4. You know, BPC will increase growth hormone receptors on cells, so you get even a better effect. So every— everything in medicine, I think, is a vicious cycle, you know. And the nice thing with, like, BPC too, it's like you were saying, kind of homeostatic. If your blood pressure is low, it raises it. If your blood pressure is too high, it lowers it. If you're hypercoagulable, it makes— improves it. If you can't coagulate, improves it. We're just starting, um, like a study on POTS and, and the peptides.

So yeah, we're trying to— isn't VIP also really great for POTS?

Yeah, I mean, a lot of— I haven't used too much VIP because it— I I can't go over the fact that it raises Th2 immunity, you know, which is, you know, yeah. And plus it's a Shoemaker thing. It was not my favorite part.

He's brilliant, but so there I have some bias. You gotta take the good from all the places, right? You do, you do.

And so I try to put that out of my mind, but I'm like, yeah. So you've had some, some, you probably just hear so many great stories, you probably just like, oh yeah, yeah.

You know, I don't— you know, I think in our business we never get tired of the good stories, right? And we— you can never get jaded because there's always going to be another amazing story around the corner that you didn't expect. So I think that what I love about what I do is witnessing what can— what is possible, right? And, and it's a gift. Like, it's, it's really, it's, it's, it's a joy. Like, I, I feel very grateful to be able to do what I do and, and to be able to hold space for people while they do what they do. And to be a part of, just to be a part of this world. Like, I just think it's, it's amazing.

I think that's the attitude you have to have. And what kills me though, you can help 1,000 people and Miracle save all these lives and one person and totally nutso and they give you a bad Yelp, I take it so personally, you know? And it's always like, that's not what happened.

You know, that's not fair.

And you can't say anything because you can't mention anything, but yeah. So those things kind of drive me crazy and the paperwork and the bureaucracy, you know, and just this basically censorship of information. Like how is, why is now Google the arbiter of of basically medical truth. Like, like, give me a total break on that. But that's a whole nother— I can't get going on that.

We can do a whole other discussion on that. I just— I, I think the world is— it's— there's a lot of craziness going on right now, and we, we just have to do the best that we can, and, and people will find us.

Yeah, yeah, I think that's a great attitude. Um, let's talk real quick about bioregulators.

Oh, I love bioregulators. I think bioregulators are— and I don't know that we know as much as we could about bioregulators just yet.

Can you define bioregulators or tell everyone what you're talking about?

Well, the way I think of bioregulators honestly is like they're, you know, they— and these really come out of the work of Dr. Kevinsen in Russia. And it's like these, these tiny— in very many cases, like some of the most powerful ones are like 3 amino acids, right? Like a ptylon is what, 3 amino acids long? And they address a system or an organ. And it's the way I— and I haven't particularly used them therapeutically myself, but the way I've used them is I will build stacks for clients who are at a point where they're in a fairly homeostatic state, like they're in a pretty good place. And I'm like, look, for a couple of times a year, we're going to— we're just going to do a little refresh on the house, as it were, right? So we're going to use a pitta lana to reset our circadian rhythm. And the invitation to people is pick a period of time where you have some control over your life so that you can allow your body to do that reboot, so you can get the rest that you need, so that that circadian cycle can reset the pineal gland gets that little renewal. You know, you get normalization of melatonin and, you know, people are like, well, and then it's supposed to help with growth hormone and bone density and blah, blah, blah. Well, that's all the melatonin, right? Because if your melatonin's upregulated, you're sleeping better, your growth hormone's going to come up. And if you've got more growth hormone on board, well, your bone density is going to improve and your sense of wellbeing and your— Yeah.

And your reduction in cancer and cardiovascular disease. And mortality. Yeah, some nice studies on cardiovascular age over 65, followed for 15 years, and they found that their cardiovascular function got better, especially when you combine it with, like, with thymosins. Yes, that it got better rather than worse in the control group, and significantly less cancer, less mortality, morbidity. So it's probably ultimate anti-aging peptide, you know?

It is, but then, you know, you add in the Cardiogen for the heart, you add the liver. Like, whose liver couldn't use a helping hand right now, right? You do a cycle of Livogen and Pancreagen, and so you address the organ system, the Vesugen for the blood vessels, you know?

I tried that. It's hard to know if it does anything, you know?

You're not going to feel— so you know what's really cool? So I just recorded a podcast with the, with the SVP of this. I don't know if you've come across the Biostrap, which is like, so the Biostrap is, um, and I'm thinking I want to do a run of a Sujin when this, when the thing comes out. So Biostrap is what is a health tracker. So it's, it's a band that you wear and it's got the sensor, the, it's got the red lights. It measures your sleep. It measures your SpO2. It measures your HRV, does all this stuff. But the other metric that they can access with these sensors because of how powerful they are is they can look at arterial elasticity, like your arterial stiffness. And, and so how interesting would it be to, to have to wear a BioStrap, look at that metric, and then do a round or two of Essugen and see if it actually made any difference? Now it's not going to make a difference, like, I don't know, right? I mean, this is literally a question.

We had one device that did that, and then it broke and we couldn't get anyone to fix it. So, but I loved it because it really tells you, you know, kind of where you are. We also were doing vascular ultrasounds, you know, looking at, you know, all the blood vessels. Now, if you typically do them and send it to already, you know, basically a, you know, a standard radiography group, you know, and radiologist They're so used to just looking for like big plaques and stuff that they don't say, oh, there's little intermediate thickness thickening because they just think that's normal. But we did in our office, we could pick that out for people and it's like, look, you got this as early, you know, heart disease and peripheral vascular disease. And it worked great. We lost our tech and I can't find another tech, but I love that stuff.

And yeah, the arterial stenosis. So I think, I mean, there's so much we can still learn from it. Yeah. And I think vasugen, I think it's a real interesting peptide. Like, my husband has got recently developed Raynaud's disease, so his fingers will turn white in the cold, which is not a good thing when you live where we live. And I'm like, we're getting our hands on some vasugen. Like, I'm really curious to see. And of course, what's interesting about the bioregulators is you can use them at that, you know, on that 20-day or 10-day cycle a couple times a year. But you can also use a much higher dose for a shorter time as when you're looking for more of a therapeutic benefit.

Yeah. Now your husband, sure he's not infected and he needs immune modulators. I mean, yeah, because I had Lyme. Oh my God. I had Raynaud's so bad. Like I couldn't shake anyone's hand, you know, now it's gone, but—

Gotta meet them where they are, my friend.

He's not going to do it. You got to tell him not to take it. Yeah, exactly.

Don't you ever touch that bottle.

Yeah, but no, we're liking a number. We've been testing them out, like the— and like the Epitalon, we, we love. We're concerned about oral bioavailability if you take it orally, um, but Pineleon actually is, is good. The Vylon, which is basically— it's only 2 amino acids, like, how does it do all this? And it's a great immune modulator, and, and that we found that actually in our thymus extract where we actually isolated the TB4 frag. And it's expensive to like isolate something and concentrate it, but there's violin in there, so that we're going to be doing that. And out of your pituitary extract and the pineal, um, uh, we, we're loving those and, and we're seeing good effects. I remember 10 years ago I was doing cortigen injections And I don't know how the bioavailability is or, cause it's a 4 amino acid, but yeah. So I use the injectable ones right now.

Yeah. That's what I mean. I did send, I did send some of the oral Cardiogen to my parents, but I typically, but you know, going back to what you said about the smallest peptides and how they seem to be the most powerful, like look at GHK, which is this, again, it's 3 amino acids. And yet it seems to— it's like, it's like it's so little, it seems to have a receptor in every tissue in the body and be able to, to upregulate some kind of function or effect.

Yeah. And you know what's interesting with a lot of these small peptides, they can't find the receptor. And it seems that one study I was looking at, it seemed to be harmonic. So it vibrated and then stimulated. I'm thinking like, well, what do EMFs do to that? You know. Yeah, so like, yeah, it gets scary. But yeah, some of those like phylon and thymogen, that definitely works. We found a lot of that in the thymic extract. And then the pinealium, what we're liking. And neptalon, of course, is, is great. Um, yeah, let's see what else. Yeah, so we're, we're going to be incorporating a lot of those because I, I think it's, it's amazing that something that small— and they're also resistant to digestion.

Yeah, that's very interesting, right? Because all we find them as, as an oral product in the, I mean, you have to bring them in from, from Russia or wherever, but, uh, because there's nobody, I mean, other than you right now, that's starting to work.

We're making sure they absorb and all that stuff, but yeah.

But mostly we don't find them typically in the oral form in North America. They're very expensive orally. Well, I think it's because they have to use a higher dose. Because you're going to have some loss, right? Typically.

So, yeah, but like for 14 days, the other— this, the Sujin that I got, I was like, damn, you know.

Ouch. Yeah. As you said, without health, what's money worth, right?

I agree, but I wasn't sure if it was working. So, yeah, so, yeah, I'm gonna check out that BioStrap. Yeah, the—

it's the new BioStrap Evo. And so they're— they haven't launched that feature to the public yet. They're just They're going to be going into a testing phase with something called HeartLab, and that'll be the one that can report back on the arterial— on the peripheral arterial elasticity and age. But they've done a couple of even really interesting clinical studies because they're providing clinical-grade data. So you've got hospitals that are using it. They have the kids' hospital in LA. Was able to use the Biostrap and they found— I think they found a new marker that's for kids with sickle cell anemia.

Um, that is a pain. Does it do heart rate variability?

Yeah, and when it reports heart rate variability, like, you get like 1,000 points on the graph. So it's reporting— it's measuring your heart rate variability all night long.

I mean, is it— is it for home use where people— yeah, no, you just—

it's It's— oh, I don't have it. It's plugged in upstairs. Like, it's literally— it looks like a Fitbit, but it doesn't have a face or anything. It's just— what's the cost of it? $239. Like, it's crazy, you know, because people say, oh, you know, all these things are so expensive. And I'm like, can you imagine that you're wearing something on your wrist for $239 that's reporting back to you what your blood oxygen saturation rate was all night long. It's telling you— It's like go to the hospital and get that.

Like almost— Right.

Your resting heart rate all night long. And so you can figure out, wow, like I'm not breathing really well these days. Maybe it's almost like maybe I need to go get that checked out.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Or it's funny. So we're, we're getting a plasmapheresis machine and it's funny. So I was like traveling around, you know, getting plasmapheresis, you know, usually like $3,500, I went to the hospital and I said, you know, how much is for one Plaza Frescas? They go, I don't know, but you get 80% off. I'm like, well, that's nice, but can I get the price? She comes back and she says, well, yeah, it's the $35,000. I'm like, so 80% off that? She goes, no, that's with the 80% off.

You're like, thanks, I'm good. All right, that's our healthcare system.

And yeah, it's another thing to get me started with. Like, we are the least least free market healthcare system almost in the world. And everyone's like, oh, socialized medicine, like, what do you think we are? You don't have the opportunity to negotiate the price of a med or, you know, it's— we're insulated. We think we're free market. It's crazy. And you don't even know the price until you're done. Like, you know, you just get the bill.

Which is actually crazy, right? Anyway, we don't have that in Canada. We've got our own problems here. Yeah.

Yeah. So I actually submitted healthcare reform and it was supposed to be published in the— what's a major medical publication? That's the publication. Oh my God. I'm blanking out. But anyways, but then they pulled it the last minute. I could tell. And then I actually got it to, through some finagling, to Paul Ryan. Not my biggest fan, but, but he wrote back and I had to sign a thing saying I won't quote him or anything, but it was officially from him. But he says, your plan's very well thought out. And— but do you know how many people are slurping from the trough of healthcare?

It will never go anywhere, you know. It's unfortunate. It's the politicization of healthcare is a sad thing, but it all comes down to the same thing, right?

Yeah, I think it's individual responsibility and caring about your own healthcare.

And, and that's where I think that the work that we do, I think that the work of helping people to upgrade their health so that they don't have to rely on healthcare is the most important work we can be doing right now, and especially these days, especially these days. And at the same time, it's about people being willing to take responsibility. It's a little bit what you were talking about earlier. Unfortunately, we still have a mentality— I mean, we want to believe that we can just go to someone else and give them full responsibility for our health and everything's going to be okay. And the truth is that you are the master of your domain and you've got to take care of that house first. You have to own that. You know what's better for yourself.

And you got to realize the medical system— I used to get very mad at doctors, right? I'm just like— and, but they're also put in a system where there's no incentive to do anything different. Um, you know, you look like Kaiser will remove the lowest 20% of non-cost-effective doctors, meaning doctors that are writing for labs, making diagnosis, using treatments. And so they get these doctors just do nothing. And, and then also, so for a doctor, if he— it's better for them to say, I don't believe in that, because now they can go home and sleep. If they believe in something but say, I'm not going to treat it, they're a bad person. Right? So it's like with all these, you know, chronic Lyme, chronic fatigue syndrome, they're like, oh, it's psychological, I don't believe in that, because they can't do anything about it. So it's much easier to, you know, to think that way. But it's, it's a tough system, you know, they're working and they're miserable, but they don't know how, you know.

Yeah, they're working hard. So anyway, that's why you do what you do. That's why everybody's lucky you're working We're around.

This was awesome. I think you're just doing such an amazing job and just really get it and understand what people need and really how to get them better on their own terms, you know. So, so you're good, man. You have so many different hats, you know, psychologist and, you know, but, and, and just know so much about so many things and how to help these people and always obviously continually learning and that. So my hat goes off to you and my praises. And to you. We need more people like you. So, so what's the name of the Facebook group?

Oh, so the new name of the Facebook group is Optimizing Superhuman Performance because, you know, just being human is not enough. So that's the Facebook group. So you can find me there or, you know, you just search that.

I know nothing about Facebook. I don't I hate it.

So you should— so it got to the point where you could no longer find the group even with search, but now it's Optimizing Superhuman Performance. You should be able to find it. If you can't find the group, you can find me under my name on Instagram, which is just Natalie Nidam, or I've got a website, natnidam.com. So I've had people now because of the podcast reaching out because they couldn't find the group. They're like coming into my website and sending me notes That's scary.

Yeah. So it's N-I-D-D-A-M, just so everyone knows.

Yeah. N-I-D-D-A-M. Yeah. Well, awesome.

Again, thank you so much. I learned a lot. I think this was, was great and just keep doing what you're doing.

Thank you. And thank you so much for having me. This was great. Thanks so much. Great.

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