How To Provide Custom Private Label Supplements To Your Patients (For Practitioners)​

Doctors tell you, we hear that like, oh, I don't know, I'm not comfortable selling. I'm like, don't sell. I don't sell.

Right.

Yeah.

Don't sell.

Yeah.

Here's a program. Here's a plan. Let, you know, let's work through it. Do what you do and do the whole, the holistic approach. 'Cause that's where the, the most success is.

Welcome to the Peptides and Longevity Podcast. Each week we'll dive into groundbreaking science, innovative therapies, and the future of health and longevity. Alongside visionary physicians and experts, we'll explore how peptides, cutting-edge medicine, and lifestyle strategies can redefine the way we age. Get ready to transform your health, optimize your vitality, and unlock the secrets to a longer, healthier life.

Let's get started. Hi, this is Dr. Kenton Holtorf with another episode of the Peptide Summit. This episode's for practitioners out there, not, not so useful for the patients and the public, but we have Don Winsek, who is the owner and founder of True Body Wellness, with— they basically custom make supplements. Don, thank you so much for, for being on, and I think this is a great service for practitioners to kind of bring their practice to the next level.

Oh, thank you for having me. Appreciate it.

Right. So a little bit about Don. He's president, owner of True Body Wellness, supplier of private label dietary supplements. He's had positions as vice president and president and CEO of multiple product manufacturing businesses. He has a background in engineering and a master's in business. He started True Body Wellness in 2001 with the goal of making high quality and effective dietary supplements available to customers for private labeling, allowing the doctors to go to market with confidence and building their brand and success really in this growing market. And it's becoming more and more complicated. And, but there is so many amazing things that are coming out and it's just, I think the whole field has just expanded, you know, so much used to just be, you know, a couple basic supplements, but he's, you know, leveraged education experience and product development and manufacturing to build a network. And what I really like, we've been using them for a number, using him for a number of years, is that he can go to the manufacturers that have like, you know, what you really need. Let's say you want a cream or you want an oral spray or a particular type of supplement and go to this person while these people are better for, for this style and also help you with basic formulations. Where, and I think the biggest disappointment starting out was, and, and everyone's like, well, this should have more of this. This should have more of this. Well, I can't make a capsule this big, you know? And, uh, so, and then also I think, well, once you kind of get into it, the FDA regulations have gone crazy. But, and that's where really your help has been just tremendous where we don't have to go searching through or getting, getting hit for, you know, mislabeling and things like that. Yeah. Just again, we, we've loved your service and, uh, to how you helped Doctors.

No, man, I appreciate that. But you said it's a, it's, it's an actually a very big market. It's a growing market. I mean, in the, it's like a $120 billion worldwide market, just dietary supplements. US is about $45 billion and is growing at, you know, pun intended, at a healthy, you know, 6 to 8% a year. I mean, for that big of a market, they kind of grew up. That's a, that's a So there's lots of opportunity. You know, we kind of look at it, want to talk about it as this is an opportunity for maybe doctors and healthcare providers to add more revenue to theirs. You know, you can add more money to their income stream and profits. You can bring more value to your customer. There's no question you can bring, you know, extra health programs and things that work better for your patients and clients. And you can build your brand. You know, you can add some things to your brand and their trust to you.

Yeah. And I think we see, and yeah, the way I look at it is that it's a win-win-win that, you know, it's basically instead of putting the money in the pockets of these, you know, big supplement companies and there are some good ones out there, but their stuff is expensive. I mean, they have all this overhead and, you know, it's like all these, you know, executives that they have to pay and things like that. And so the stuff gets very expensive. So you can get really the higher quality, and you can tweak these formulas. Let's say, you know, you have a favorite formula from a company and you're like, well, you know, I'd like to maybe just have more of this or more of that or add that. It's, it's a great opportunity to do that. And I think too, and the patients get it cheaper, right? And you're putting the money in your pocket instead of that big, you know, supplement company. And, and the big supplement companies are kind of becoming like Big Pharma. You know, they're getting pretty, pretty powerful in that too. And I think you get more involved and also really see, see the difference that, you know, when you research supplements and find something new and you're able to make it exactly as you want it, it's much more satisfying, I think.

Yeah, you mentioned, um, there's an issue of trust too. I mean, literally friends of, friends of mine hesitate buying supplements because they're not sure what they're getting. They don't know what a company, they're not sure what's really in the capsule. Well, here's a chance to leverage your, your leverage, your trust, your patient's trust to say, yeah, I trust you. And so you work with the right company to bring a very quality and known product to them. They'll trust it, they'll buy it, and they'll actually probably pay more for it because now they, you know, they can, they trust your brand, they trust your advice, and they trust the product you're bringing to them.

Yeah, it is such a difference. So when we've taken the time to test other people's stuff, And it's not a good track record. And people with, you know, companies with good reputations and we're like, there's nothing in there or 10%, 20%, 30%. And we're like, that can't be. And then we check it again, you know, and we don't ever really say anything, but we just stop using them or, you know, let's say it's like, uh, like with the peptide competitor or something, but Some we've had were, look at, they're just blowing smoke. Like, you know, it's totally unethical. And the claims too are crazy.

Claims. But the claims are a good point because the way you get into trouble with the FDA and the FTC for that matter is the claims you put on your label and how you market it. You can get a lot of trouble with your claims. That's good. You got to be careful. You cannot claim you cure any disease at all. Yeah, that's, that's what the FDA looks at. They look at what's, as you mentioned, what's in the bottle is what's on that label. Is that actually in the bottle? If it's not, you've got problems. And what you claim, you know, you start claiming you cure cancer and you've got serious issues. So you do got to be very careful. Yeah.

And you never know. I mean, there's so many people and you're tempted to make claims. Let's say there's a study showing this helps osteoporosis. But if you say it, yeah, all these other people over here are saying it, but it may be you that they come after. They tend to come after that, you know, smaller, mid-small, and then they kind of like Rome, you know, devastate one village and then the rest of them surrender, you know?

Exactly. Yeah.

And they don't want to go after the big guys because it's going to be a fight. But I just shake my head at the amount of claims that are out there and what people are saying. And two, we've noticed is that And we never check like, or Costco. It's like people like, we'll have melatonin from you for say, even just like a single, like sublingual melatonin and people go, melatonin doesn't work. We'll try this. And they're like, oh my God, it totally worked.

Yeah.

You know, and, and so, you know, some people, I can get this at Costco for, you know, $3. Well, that's what it's worth probably, you know. And I, I think that's, that's a nice thing that you know what's in it is, is in it. And, and that you also, with your knowledge, can recommend things to enhance a particular formula and work with the doctors that way.

Yeah, there's definitely certain ingredients you can add that, you know, you combine different ingredients so they have more synergy, they have better, better effectiveness. So those are some of the things we could bring to the table.

And And that's like it, it's funny, like the doctors in our office, it's like, like they kind of do the same thing. They're like, well, we need more of this in there, more of this, more of that. Like you can't have the thing that has everything in it, which, which is, is a bummer. That's the problem with supplements. They're kind of take up a lot of space and some things are like chelated minerals, right? I mean, the problem is there, it makes it such a big molecule where you could triple the amount of just like magnesium oxide or whatever, you know, and so you get twice as much absorbance from the chelated, but you can give 4 times the amount in a capsule of not chelated. So it's kind of like, you know, weighing those things. And I think it's fun to do as well and get into it. And when you, you know, and there's so much now, I think great research coming out on supplements. You know, and, and you would think that with modern medicine, everything's meds, meds, meds, but the way the whole system is, we know it's all rigged and the studies that people are more natural, natural, natural, because they find that these meds are, you know, in 5 years they say, oh shoot, yeah, it's causing cancer or whatever, tons of side effects. But you would think that over the years things would become less natural, or even look at the foods, you know, and more science-based, but it is becoming science-based but natural.

Yeah, no question. I can ask what speaks to the growth, especially now, you know, obviously we're coming, still coming through the COVID period. So everybody's looking better at more at their overall health, immunity, you know, how to just build up just general health. And so supplementation, that's why it's growing so fast.

Yeah, I guess the FDA was really mad, I guess, that the immune supplements like went up like fivefold or something and they weren't too happy with that. And, and, you know, NAC, they banned officially because it is a drug, but so many people are getting NAC for COVID that they banned it. You know, if something's safe and effective and cheap, they're going to ban it basically. And they're coming after supplements again. Hopefully they won't. I think the backlash would be too bad with that, but they're really coming after compounding pharmacies right now, especially sterile compounding and peptides and that, you know, again, if it works and is safe, it pisses big pharma off, you know.

Well, the other part, if it works and it's safe and pharma can't control it, that's when you get— that's when the FDA tries to shut it down.

Yeah. And people like FDA is the watchdog of Big Pharma. Give me a break. They're, you know, it's like that's Big Pharma pays their salary.

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting thing. Just wanna say with the FDA, the FDA does regulate dietary supplements, but they don't approve dietary supplements. That means that they set the rules, you know, good manufacturers, GMP, good manufacturing practices. They set the rules. But it's self-regulated. So your manufacturer follows the rules set up, but does— they don't have to submit any product to the FDA. So if you ever hear a product's approved, supplement is approved by the FDA, they're lying. FDA does not approve dietary supplements. Unlike pharmaceutical drugs, they do, they have to. So it really counts, puts the manufacturer self-regulates themselves. So that's where it puts a lot of faith and trust in the manufacturing process. Because, um, now they all— I always look for someone who's, uh, GMP certified, which means a third-party auditor comes out and does it. But I have personally seen, just because they're GMP certified doesn't mean they always follow the process. So that's where I— at least with True Body, we always work with manufacturers that not only are they GMP certified, we personally— I personally know each of them. I know the owners, the management team, and I trust them. It's trusting the people and the processes to make sure they're delivering exactly what they say they're doing.

I think that's been huge. You know, I've learned because, you know, and now like, you know, for other things we buy, we, we go out there and check, but who has the time to do all those things?

Right.

But you find a supplement company and they sound good. And it reminds me when early, 40, 20 years ago, I started a beer company. And we actually won a, we had a hangover-free beer. We had double-blind placebo-controlled studies that showed hangover-free. As soon as we got it out, the FDA, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms said, nope, can't make a healthy beer. But, right, then we did an energy beer. We won a silver medal in the World Beer Cup and a bronze at World Beer Championships. Then we had to scale up, right? So we went to this company and while they seem good and we paid them by the case and oh my God, it turned horrible. And then we went to a trade show and people go, everyone knows not to go with them. Everyone knows not to go with them, you know, and it will end up in this lawsuit and blah, blah, blah, you know. So that's, that's what you help these doctors avoid is that big expensive mistake, right?

Yes, exactly.

And so that's, that's what I found. It's what you don't know, you don't know is that's where it kills you.

Until it's too late. Exactly.

Yeah. And so I'm sure you've been through it and saw all the problems and you weed out the problems. I mean, that's, that's huge. And, and we found that, I mean, your pricing is just, uh, so much better than the overwhelming majority of people out there and, and quality is the key, you know, and, and no problems where it's like, oh, or backlog 3 years, you know, whatever, you know. With the supply chain, you've been doing great because you have a number of choices too, right?

Oh yeah. So because you have a network— it's been a challenge, gets more challenging all the time, especially bottles and, you know, one thing you gotta remember with stuff, it's like we're a third world country. Yep, simple stuff. But if you have 5, 6 ingredients and you're missing one, you gotta wait and hold it. But so far, yeah, we have dozens of suppliers, so if one's out We can move to the next one. And so we've been holding, we've been doing pretty well with deliveries. It's been challenging, but we've been holding our own. No question.

Great. And when you find it, what is the typical doctor's practice that you work with?

It's either, most of it's focused on with our doctors, it's mostly focused, believe it or not, on overall health and/or weight loss. Weight management because generally, because, you know, let's, let's face it, right? And you see, you know, statistics with COVID that 78, 70, 78% of the people who died were basically obese or morbidly obese. So they find the most success with, uh, weight loss or weight— again, weight management. You got to be careful what you say when you're doing labeling.

Yeah, all right.

Yeah, so you gotta watch it.

Do you have any, any conventional, or are they more of the integrative type? I guess it's kind of labeled, I guess, if they use supplements that make them integrate, you know. Or do you have like standard physicians, let's say urologist that does a prostate formula or something?

We have— most of them are chiropractors, believe it or not. So the chiropractors, uh, do very well in this area. So that's our biggest base. Then we have a few doctors and they're just general practitioners. And so we have some that focuses entirely on weight loss and others weight loss plus overall health. So they'll, they'll buy multiple products from, you know, like superfoods. So this one, just general, you know, drinking superfoods to get overall health, digestive enzymes for, for, you know, stomach health. And so it varies, but again, I'd say our dominant one really probably be at this time is weight management products.

Gotcha, gotcha. And, and it is, you know, you find something that works and it, I think it just, you know, you need now to be a successful doc, you need multiple revenue streams. And, you know, it's not about everything you can get out of the patient. It's that, you know, if you put the time in to learn about all these things and talk about them to patients because they're going to benefit them because, you know, we found that unless you have them in the office, the patient— and you can write down, go take this, take this, you know, 99% chance they're not going to get it or they're going to get something totally wrong, right? And, you know, they'll look around forever trying to find it and trying to save a dollar or whatever it is, and they end up not getting it. And where the convenience to the patient is just boom, you know, all in the pack when they're there in the office. I think it's just such a win-win that it's a way to go. I think even so much, I think it's much better than, you know, some of the companies, they have the website where the doctor, you know, writes for it and then gets a kind of a kickback, which really is not legal, but they're not enforcing the Stark laws. But there's some bigger supplement companies won't do that because Officially, it is not legal to do the kickback. I mean, buying them and making them yourself is fine. But I think because the doctor will have something on the website to show it's theirs, like they, they're making money from it because it's when you give it to the patient, it's not, it's totally honest. It's like, look, I'm selling this to you, right? Where when you send someone to a website, it's kind of dishonest in that, hey, I'm sending you somewhere else, but I'm getting money back for it.

Well, we found though, the ones our doctor chiropractors have the best success, it's part of a plan. So just not really selling a, you know, a supplement. We, if we stick with the weight management, there's a whole plan. There's a diet plan, there's an exercise plan, and the supplement is part of it. So where that brings value, brings value to the patients because now they have a holistic plan, which is good for them. It's works better, is more successful. It works great for the healthcare provider because it's really a plan. You charge more. You've got a whole package. They probably come back once a month, once every 2 months to see how they're doing. So it's, it's more than just selling, here's a bottle of a supplement.

Yeah. And that's the thing. I can't, I'm the worst salesperson ever. And Jose won't sell anything. I don't sell. I just, I basically prescribe what I think is the best thing for them. And I know doctors, they, we hear that like, oh, I don't know. I'm not comfortable selling. I'm like, don't sell.

I don't sell.

Yeah.

Here's a program. Here's a plan. Let the, you know, let's work through it, do what you do and do the whole, the holistic approach. Because that's where the most success is. So you're selling and you can set in, I'm not sure. I don't know the charges, but you could be doing $100 a month for patients now that helping them and helping your revenue stream. And they come back. Again, it's not just a supplement, it's a whole program.

Yeah. And instead of them going to try and get at Costco or getting something like it, and then they're not on it, you don't know if they're taking it or not. And it's, it's never the same, but you have kind of a 7-step plan, I think you were mentioning.

So number 1 would be just that. Well, first is have a goal. You know, what, what are you trying to Where's your specialty? What are you trying to do? Is it weight management? Is it, you know, heart health? Is it brain function or healthier brain? So first, you have a health goal in mind.

Do you recommend for a doctor to start out with one or maybe a few? Or what do you think?

I think just one because we'll get into it because how do you, like I said, how do you sell it? How do you market it? That's very important early on. But so first start, what's your goal? And then once you have a goal, don't just think of a supplement as we just talked about. Think of a plan, not a program. You know, you just want to make it whole, you know, food is, you know, how's your diet? How's your exercise? What other things can you do? Oh, by the way, these supplementation will help achieve all these goals. And third, you know, I need to pick a supplement, you know, so let's talk about, you know, we can help you with that, but you have your thoughts on your, what you read in terms of what dietary supplement you believe will help or what ingredients will help support the plan. So that'd be the third step. The fourth one, probably initially if you've never done it before, it may even be the most important— your marketing plan. How do you plan to market it? Because, and with supplements early on, there's a lot of them out there, right? A lot of choices. There's Costco, GNC, all kinds of places. So you need to know how you're going to market this, and that's would probably be the most important first step. When you have success, now you can add things easier because now you know it's working. But I think that's a very—

I don't think you're really— it's really the marketing part is just you recommending it, you know, very possibly.

Yeah. And like I said, for us, we don't, we don't really sell—

I mean, people can buy it outside of our practice, but 99.9%, you know, it's people in our practice and then they'll tell someone else. So like, we don't need like a, you know, marketing online or anything like that. It's basically the doctor saying, hey, this is what you need, this is what you need, you know. And that's the biggest thing is the doctor saying it, you know.

And it could be too, not just that, but putting a little brochure together. Oh, by the way, here's our weight management plan. Here's our heart health plan. I mean, that's marketing. That's just, you know, it's an easy sell once you're in the office to say, here's a program, you know, why don't you take a look at this? You know, we can, we can talk about this. That's, that's what I mean by a marketing plan. You know, understand how you're going to present it to your patient and client. But after that, you have to, you know, try— I would then private label, private label the product because you want to protect your brand. You want it to be your brand. So, you know, put your logo on it, put your name on it, and it just brings more credibility. You can't go to Costco and buy, you know, Dr. Hal Torch vitamin C. It doesn't exist because it's your brand. So I'd say branding is the next step. After that, to me, obviously just as important, pick the right manufacturer, pick the right source, you know, understand that.

So true. So true.

Yeah, because like you said, it's, it's, there's a lot to it. So, you know, again, from our, from, you know, our point of view, you know, we can bring you, we can help you all the way from picking the ingredients, picking the formula, the label design, the manufacturer, the manufacturing of the product, and the shipping. All, you know, then we could do it from soup to nuts, and you just worry about what you do. And again, we'll help with the formulation. And you could start too. Like I said, we have standard formulas. Maybe they're close enough. Maybe they're not exactly what you want, but start there. Prove you can do it. Once you can do it, then you can always go to the next step and customize.

So we must drive you crazy with all our super custom fineness. That's weird ingredient.

And, but you definitely, yeah, yeah. It's been a challenge. Some of those ingredients. I don't know where the hell you found them. And then I don't know how I found them.

There is so much literature coming out on all these supplements. I mean, they're finally studies on all these things, you know? And it's like, I love it. We do our like Bone Restore through you. And, and I just, I keep thinking of this endocrinologist who was just always all over us. And, you know, we'll suppress people's TSH and your bones are going to just dissolve, you know? And then they're just getting basically the DEXA scan, the bone and the bone mineral density just going up and up and up. You know?

Yeah.

And it's like, yes. And they're like, a supplement can't do that. What medication are you on? You know, let me put you on Fosamax. Like, no. And, or it's like a lot of times too, they'll go, oh, that Fosamax is working or whatever. And like, I haven't been, I haven't taken it for 2, 3 years, you know? And they're like, well, how could that be?

You know? I know. Well, I actually have a little personal story. So I don't think I struggle with the only medication I take and it's way reduced is for blood pressure. But about 10 years ago, I met a PhD in nutrition and we talked about blood pressure. So he recommended a supplement of L-arginine and citrulline and a few other things. He said, take this. So I started taking it. 6 months later, I go to the doc and my blood pressure is way down. He goes, what are you doing? So I explained to him the supplement. The doctor had no idea what the supplement was.

No, no.

But he noticed that in 6 months they actually had an effect. And my The medication I take now is 1/4 of what I used to take, which is always good because, you know, long-term impact of pharmaceuticals are really unknown. They're not good over time.

We actually had a cardiologist start ordering the same supplement when he noticed our patients that we would send to him, uh, the cholesterol down, they weren't taking their meds. And, uh, he's like, he was like one of the few that said What are they doing? Wait a minute. They're all taking the supplement. So he started bringing the supplement in. Yeah. Yeah.

There you go.

So it's nice to get an open-minded specialist, especially, right?

Yeah, exactly.

So would you— so any hot ingredients that are coming out that— I mean, I guess weight loss is always huge. Immunity now because of COVID right?

Other things for bone. You talk about bones and joints and collagen. Collagen is super hot. Collagen peptides. Yeah. Normally coming from bovine cows, but, or even fish collagen. That's hot. I just went to a supply side summit where they talk about—

Oh, Dr. Hassel's out of that. It's like, oh my gosh.

Exactly.

It's just gigantic.

Yeah. It's amazing. So there's always new ingredients, but mushrooms too.

Mushrooms as an overall health are Oh, and the studies coming out on those, I mean, they're, they're equal to meds, you know, almost.

Yeah.

And without the side effects. But it is interesting if you go to like Supply Side West and you go to someone has, oh, low minimums and they're like, you know, $2 million or something.

Yes.

With the standard. So that's, that's key is you got, you know, the low minimum orders and, and that people can get started. Yeah.

Well, that's, I mean, you mentioned that's why we're, we can bring a lot to the table because we go, we have low minimums, but we can match the manufacturer what you need. So you can know their, their expertise. So not only do you get the great quality, you also get good pricing, competitive pricing, because you're matching their special, their special, their manufacturing expertise to what, whether it's a liquid or a powder or capsule or tablet, we can match it up to the right manufacturer.

I feel bad too, because, you know, I'm, I'm kind of a loyal loyalist guy. We'll have our supplement reps come in and they're like, why aren't you carrying our product? Well, I got it for, you know, less than half price and more of everything in there.

And they're like, okay, you know, if I knew that, I'd be charging you more. I'm undercharging.

Yeah. Oh, sure. I shouldn't tell you.

Exactly.

But yeah. So some of the, you know, these Supplement companies are, there's ones that are good, but they're expensive. And other ones that are cheaper seem to be, that's kind of what it's worth. And I think you've kind of got the best of both worlds, I think.

Yeah, I guess we try. Absolutely.

And then a little handholding, which I think is key because, you know, you can't be an expert in everything and it's tough and you don't want to, especially when you first put your toe in the water, you need someone there to to kind of guide you.

Especially, it's amazing how a label could be 4 inches by 6 inches, but the complexity on that label, it's one thing, and it is doing this, how hard a label can be to get it right and not make mistakes. 4 by 6, that's it. And yet that's a, can be an amazing challenge to get that label.

And that is something you can get nailed for and have a big headache. And so yeah, you don't want to go do that on your own and just think, oh, here, This is what the other labels look like. It has to be a certain font, certain size.

And absolutely, FDA has clear regulations and very, very clear regulations on how that label is not only supposed to look, like I said, the font, the organization, how the supplement facts panel got to be laid out. It's all very well controlled by the FDA.

Yep, yep. They're, they're making anything more difficult that they can. But yeah, you've worked so great for us for so many years and have— when we've kind of grown with you too, you know. So we started out small and then so you work great with that and no difference when we're ordering higher quantities and it just gets better.

So I appreciate that.

Yeah, you can kind of do the, the whole gambit, which is, which I think is great. And we're always, of course, leaning on you for knowledge and hey, how do we improve on this? And, you know, also, you know, fillers and things like that. Labels, of course, saves a lot of money. You don't have to go to a, you know, label attorney and all this stuff will just kill you. And it seems now like everything is just with medicine. I mean, overhead just is skyrocketing. So I really like the fact that you're kind of a one-stop shop and can kind of get everything done there.

That's the value we try to bring. Couldn't say it better. That's it right there.

Great. Great. All right. I guess on that, yeah, I just, you know, I've worked with Don for many years. I've just found it valuable for all our supplements and to just feel like a, like a team, you know, able to, you know, I'll put our supplements up against anyone's, you know, and we hear it all the time that, oh, I took this and it didn't work. Yeah. And so it's also a confidence thing, you know. And I'm very ADD. I want to see a result, you know, and people will switch the same thing. Like they'll come see us and say they're really sick. They've seen 10 doctors and we get them better. Then they go, oh, I'm pretty good now. I can go back to my insurance HMO doctor. Okay, well, we'll see in 6 months. And it's the same thing with the supplements that they go, oh, I found something close, you know, whatever. CVS or online, and they come back and go, it wasn't working the same. Yeah. So I thank you.

You're welcome. And I thank you for your business and your great support.

Yeah, it's been great. Yeah. So thanks. Thanks for the sharing the information here with the docs on the summit. And how can they find you?

It's pretty simple. It's truebodywellness.com. That's true with no E, body, B-O-D-Y wellness.com.

Awesome.

Awesome.

So highly recommended. And yeah, I don't think you can go wrong with where we're working with Don. So, uh, it's got my highest recommendation. So, uh, thanks so much and appreciate you being on.

All right. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity.

Great. All right.

All right.

Take care.

Okay.

I'll talk to you soon. Yep.

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