Lyme, Mold, Fatigue—Gone? The Protocol Helping Patients Bounce Back Fast

and I learned a lot from Dr. Elias on, on detoxification strategies using IV therapies. And really nobody else does detoxification, let's say, the way Dr. Elias does with the IV. So I feel very, very lucky that I got to learn from his— him as well as Dr. Klinghardt. And then I really merged together what I learned from these two doctors' methodology with respect to detoxification and treatment for people who have all kinds of infections, including tick-borne illness in their—

Yeah.

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Let's get started. Hello, this is Dr. Kent Holtorf with another episode. Today we have Nafisa Parpia, and she's gonna be talking about peptide biohacking for complex illness. Very exciting. She treats the sick of the sick, the very complex, and recently she's even treating healthy people, which is, which is nice. But I'd like to thank you so much for being on the summit and looking forward to our chat. And I'm sure everyone's going to get a lot out of this interview. So thank you.

Thank you for having me. I'm honored.

Great. And I love her. She's always smiling and in a good mood and her passion. But yeah, so a little about, um, uh, Nafisa. She's an independent practice at Gordon Medical Associates, uh, Associates in Santa Rosa. Specializes in the treatment of Lyme, Lyme disease, other complex illnesses, autoimmunity, mold, fibromyalgia, environmental toxicity, gastrointestinal disorders. Our patients with chronic Lyme disease are typically those that do not do well with antibiotics. And as we mentioned, You know, in our practice, we kind of switch from more and more antibiotics to immune modulation and peptides, um, and found we get from point A to point B much quicker. And so really prefers a biologic medicine approach to treatment, including combination. Antibiotics have their place and detoxification, and I think more and more finding that, you know, these patients don't detox. Over years treating these illnesses, she discovered the same methods used were essential with essentially well people fostered increased vitality and slowing down the aging process, leading to include specialization in health optimization and regenerative medicine. And that's what I mentioned, they find that there's such a commonality of aging and illness. And we looked at, you know, we do tons of labs and, wow, the autistic people look just like the Lyme people, but this, you know, with the older patients, this accelerated. So yeah, you look at patterns and, and that's what you could do when you, when you get a lot of good information. So she used a variety of modalities, including peptide therapies, oral and intravenous micronutrient therapy, botanical medicine, functional nutrition, injections, lifestyle counseling. Craniosacral therapy, chemical, biochemical imbalances, energetic expression, you know, how your genes respond to the environment. So that epigenetics, which is just huge— your genes are not your destiny, it's, you know, what's turned on, what's turned off. Toxins play a part more and more, exposure to infection, which we've talked about, but everyone's kind of touched on it, but no one's really dug really deep into that. But and emotional imbalances. And stress is a killer for these illnesses. And it just really causes such immune dysfunction. And she really is a detective and, you know, looks for the underlying condition instead of looking at the chart, oh, you got this, put you in a little box, and then you get this medication. It just doesn't work. You know, standard medicine, I think, works well. If you fit in a little box, if you break your arm, if you have strep throat. Yeah, unless it happens after that. But once you're outside that box, it just breaks down because they have all the specialists that look at everything separate and you can't do that. So I love that really, you know, trying to be a medical detective. We need more of that. She's really a sought-after speaker at conferences. I see her all the time. Her and Eric Gordon went into country, across the world. He's spoken on topics such as tick-borne illness, environmental medicine. He's spoken at ILADS. They are very particular who they let speak. Environmental Health Symposium. And more and more, I think the environmental, it's, they were kind of thought of as a fringe group, but so much data is coming in on that, you know. And, and those guys, what I really like, I'm probably talking too much about him. But is that you go to certain ones like ILADS, Environmental, they're doctors. They, they, they really want to be again, detectives and they're scientists. Where things like, you know, other anti-aging groups, they kind of want to do cosmetics and things like that. And they don't want, want the tough patients. American Academy of Ozone Therapy. That's a great organization. Board member of the Neurohacker Collective. Awesome. So we're going to be talking about, again, biohacking, and she's been interviewed on their podcast, Collective Insight. So I kind of extended your bio and stuff a little bit. So now the, uh, now that we're done, uh, but I mean, so much that we can talk about, and she has so much experience with some of the sickest patients. But yeah, tell me about yourself, your practice, what kind of patients you see? How did you get into this? Just give us a little short summary of, of what got you into this.

Yeah, so I started around 10 years ago at Dr. Dietrich Klinghardt's clinic where I, I learned from him and his top physicians at the time about, about the patients who have complex chronic illness, particularly tick-borne illness, co-infections, and environmental toxicity. So I spent a year there, and then Dr. Isaac Elias invited me to be the lead Lyme doctor at his clinic in Santa Rosa. And I learned a lot from Dr. Elias on, on detoxification strategies using IV therapies. And really, nobody else does detoxification, let's say, the way Dr. Elias does with the IV. So I feel very, very lucky that I got to learn from his— him as well as Dr. Klinghardt. And then I to really merge together what I learned from these two doctors, creating my own methodology with respect to detoxification and treatment for people who have all kinds of infections, including tick-borne illness in their—

Yeah, because I love— you know, I mentioned, we were talking before we were on, that I went and did plasmapheresis at his place, and I love plasmapheresis. It's just very hard to do in the United States, and I heard he wasn't really doing it anymore for sick patients, but I don't know.

I think he is doing it for, for sick patients still, actually.

Oh yeah, you hear these things. So I end up going to Puerto Vallarta, but you know, we're looking into— there's a self-contained unit which I'm excited about, which we're gonna try to adopt if possible. But yeah, I mean, it makes sense, you know, just cleaning out all these toxins and, you know, and what, a couple hours, you know?

Yeah, it's pretty amazing, really.

Yeah, it's, it's nice. He's a really nice guy too. And, and so you were there. Well, what, and then you went over to Gordon Medical?

Yeah, and then I went over to Gordon Medical and, and, and worked more with very sick people. Um, same patient base, complex chronic illness. So of course the tick-borne illness mold, people who have a high level of environmental toxicants, people whose immune system is both hyperactive and suppressed at the same time.

Yeah, yeah. And you are exposed to a whole new set of amazing doctors there.

Yes.

So you've had a really nice ability to take, you know, the best of all these doctors.

I really have. Really, I've really loved working with Eric, Dr. Gordon, and Dr. Anderson.

And, you know, Eric's one of my favorite people. I love, I love giving him a hassle. So he's so fun, but just a good person. Um, yeah, so, so you still see a lot of these sick of the sick, and absolutely. And, and have you noticed that, like, I think, I think it's more than even just awareness, like More people are sick now.

Way more people are sick. I mean, our clinic is packed with people who are sick, who were not sick, say, 5 years ago.

Yeah.

And they are now.

And it's like a little cocktail party. And I swear every person, it's either them, a family member, a friend, you know, their parents or their kids. It's just, it's nuts.

I'll tell you. What I'm seeing more of, I'm seeing more of people from Silicon Valley, people who are at the top of their game, right? Mentally, physically, spiritually, they're really trying their best. All of a sudden they don't feel as strong physically or they don't feel as sharp mentally. And these are, these are people who are mid-40s.

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And they're kind of set up for it, you know, type A, and all of a sudden they get, you know, some sort of infection or toxin, or we had a big flood of people overtraining syndrome, you know, so-called the healthiest of the healthy, you know, doing 10 marathons, all of a sudden, wham! Yeah, more of—

more after 4 years of this population than I did 6 years ago, you know.

So it's— yeah, and, and again, I don't want to bash them, say about the same what they're capable of. What do they do for, you know, a CBC chem panel? And they hear the— you must, you must be depressed, you know, and, and they're told that. And I think I'm sure you, you find this, and when you show them on paper all the things that are wrong, you know, kind of go, I got good news, you got bad news. The bad news is you got this, this, this, this. The good news, you got this, this, this, this. When everyone told you, you know, they don't know what it is. And, um, yeah, so that's, that's awesome. It's, yeah, and it's one of those things, you know, it's, it's, I think a lot of the doctors in this area I was very evidence-based. I still am very evidence-based, but it's ingrained in medical school. All that other so-called alternative, which I don't like that term, is no evidence. And so I, you know, wasn't getting help, and I go to these alternative conferences. I'm like, oh my God, they're more evidence-based than what we're being taught, you know.

Clinical response, really. You know, we don't have all of the research that I wish we had. Yeah, where we don't really— there's so much clinical evidence, and there's just so much evidence.

And a lot of the really, you know, good research is that old research that just gets left behind because it's not a new drug. And I think one thing is that so many doctors rely on societal recommendations. Right. And, but when you look at levels of evidence, okay, like how strong, and this is big now with, you know, vaccines. It's funny, I was on Fox News and mentioned I wouldn't get an H1N1 vaccine, which I was right. Only helped 12% of the people and people got narcolepsy and demyelinating disease. And the HPV vaccine, I mean, there's issues. Look, I'm not an anti-vaxxer. I'm not an anti-vaxxer. It's everything's risk-benefit. And why can't you question even a vaccine? But now they can because it's Trump or whatever. It's, it's funny, but they'll, you know, basically say, well, the society, the vaccine study says this, the other study says this. But the level of the World Health Organization levels of evidence, so it's, you know, double-blind placebo-controlled study, you got meta-analysis where they take a bunch of double-blind, put them together then you've got, you know, unblinded trials, then you've got case studies or anecdotal. Last but not least, the lowest strength of evidence is societal recommendations, and that is below an anecdotal story. You say, I got this patient better when I gave them this supplement. They found that they're 20 years behind. They don't change their recommendations. They are not evidence-based. They have an agenda and they go and basically, they basically do one side. And they found that they're almost always wrong, you know, like 10 years later they're shown to be wrong. But it's, it's funny how we're called not evidence-based and they're going by the worst evidence there is by saying, why just listen to the, you know, whatever society did. But anyways, yeah, um, on my soapbox there. But how did you get into peptides?

Well, you know, Gordon Medical's on the cutting edge of medicine, always. Of, of— I almost said alternative medicine, but it's so much more than that. I call it functional medicine and beyond, right? So Eric is always bringing in what's new and what's on the cutting edge. Really, we got, we got into it through you, and, and we, we, we—

I Wow. Yeah. Everybody go way back.

Yeah.

I remember, yeah, fighting the establishment and we opened 22 centers 20 years ago. Just fighting the textbook for stuff that is standard now. And I was called a quack and I'm like, here's 200 studies showing this. No, we don't like it. You know?

Yeah.

Yeah. I remember commiserating with Eric late at night. Yeah. Is this worth it? You know, I'm getting beat up over here. Yeah.

Yeah.

That's great. So you, well, which ones do you kind of start using or what would you recommend to a doctor or a patient, you know, or, you know, where do you start in general? And every patient's different. Do you have a general system or?

Yeah. I'll tell you. Before I started using peptides, I would, I would work with detoxification first because that was my way of being able to, to, to shift an immune system that was dysregulated. There is research that shows that environmental toxicants as well as infections are going to cause immune dysregulation where there's hyperactivity of the immune system and weakness at the same time, right? So when I use detoxification therapies with IVs and treated mast cells, I would see immune— the immune system beginning to shift. The people, the patients were actually able to mount an appropriate immune response to kill off infections. They needed less IV antibiotic therapy or less, less, um, oxidative IV therapies. But now peptides— enter peptides, right? And What I love about the peptides is that they, they can modulate the immune system specifically and quickly. And so now it means that I have to— I can detoxify my patients in a shorter amount of time because their immune system is going to be able to— it starts to rebalance before I have to detox for too long before I can come in and kill infections. So it really shortens the, the amount of time between detoxification and killing, getting that balance.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's kind of cheating. I'll take it.

It is that, it's like boom, now I have something that's specific.

Yeah, and the nice thing is, is the safety profile too, you know. Yeah, and it's very rare to get a side effect and especially anything serious. And so which ones do you like?

So I'll use BP-50, BPC-157, and TB4 first, um, because those ones will, will modulate the immune system. And then, and then once they've been on that for a couple months, while I'm, I'm using antibiotics if I have to, or other oxidative therapies, and while I'm detoxifying and treating mast cell activation syndrome, like I said before, that shortens using the BPC and the TB.

Yeah, yeah, the BPC is definitely how you get in, you know. I think you're on the Mast Cell Mastermind group, you know, some of the smartest people in Africa run that. I mean, he has, you know, 3-page answers. Everyone's got this, this amazing man, but they're kind of stuck on direct going after the mast cell, and I'm like, you know, look upstream. And you look at like CRH, corticotropin-releasing hormone, huge stimulator of mast cells, you know, and the autonomic nervous system and sympathetic nervous system, you know, basically stimulates mast cells. So if you can modulate that, you got half your, you know, job done for you. And then the thing is that with TB4, so full-length TB4, you know, it has multiple domains. One, there's a domain that grows hair, there's a domain that modulates the immune system and anti-fibrotic, is anti-inflammatory. Then there's actually domain that stimulates mast cells, right? So, and we just did an interview with a person. Oh, that's interesting. And it was wiggly, that he has to go really slow with the full-length TB4, but she used the TB4 frag, which we which was— has the mast cell part taken out, and she said she can go much faster, and she didn't know that because that part's taken out. So it's really interesting stuff. And I think, you know, the nice thing is the peptides go with everything. I don't know anything that they don't go with, and they really synergistically go with each other. And it sounds like you like the oxygen therapy as well. Ozone. Yeah, you know, our go-to is, you know, BPC, TB4, ozone, ozone, kind of a mainstay. And then you've got, you know, other things which are almost kind of second. Yeah, throw some LDN there, that's not going to hurt anyone. And you never know what's, you know, some simple things. Oh my God, my life's changed, you know. And well, other people, it's nothing. Yeah, you know, exactly.

I mean, for, for example, a patient I've been treating for, you know, the past few years high-dose vitamin C IVs, ozone, everything you just mentioned, LDN, um, all of it, including the detoxification therapies with the IVs. And, you know, we're moving along and it's great. Then I give her— I give her TB4 and BPC-157, and she comes in a week later, one week later, and says, I can't— I don't know, I don't know what happened, but I am myself again, like in my 30s. This woman is 60, and I don't know what you gave me, what, what's in there, but nothing has shifted me so quickly. I'm on a whole new page with her.

I think what you did for that person's life—

amazing.

Yeah, and I know it's kind of like it happens all the time, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know, but it's like it happens all the time. Well, what other, or what other peptide Do you like?

So I also like TA-1. That one, add in after using, using the BPC and the, and the TB4, because then we're going to kick up their, their response in, in killing off.

Yeah. So you're going to stimulate. But yeah, they use it too soon. It can cause a Herxheimer and all that. So what other peptides do you like?

I like 37. You know, I notice that that's going to just, you know, that does just disrupt the cell wall of the infections, and, and of course it weakens the infection. So then when, when I do come in with anti-infective therapies, that goes faster as well.

Yeah, yeah. And it, it pokes a hole in their cell membrane, so immunomodulatory as well. I was talking to a urologist who doesn't really— he's a standard urologist, but someone told him about LL-37, and he's like, I have all these chronic prostatitis patients that I was just treating years with, you know, Levaquin, significant side effects and backdrops, and now I have that with 2 weeks of antibiotics and they're better, and their PSA comes down, so they don't need a biopsy now, and Yeah.

So, so people are finding, yeah, I'm noticing these peptides are shortening the duration of treatment all around.

Nice. Nice. What, what detoxes do you like? What's your approach to detox?

So I am supporting the organs of elimination, so the liver, kidneys, the gut, the skin, with herbs and with IV therapy. IVs. So using phosphatidylcholine as an IV or—

I love phosphatidylcholine.

Yeah. Yeah. And amino acids and minerals as the cofactors for their detoxification system. Of course, glutathione, chelation therapy. So, you know, I measure their environmental toxicants on the labs and from there decide where we're going to start with detoxification.

Patient.

Also, also depending on their sensitivity, I'm always going to want to have a binder on board, of course, um, right, to make sure that they are flushing out those toxins.

And I don't know, I'm a little ADD to use binders too much, you know. Okay, because that's for years and it binds everything else, and you know, so, but yeah, and Shoemaker's work, yeah, yeah, I mean, I don't know, I, I think phosphocholine is to me better than chelation for heavy metals. You know, I, I love that stuff. And it's interesting, I have a center, I can't even have time to do like, you know, ozone. But a couple days ago I was able to do ozone, phosphocholine, throw some stem cells in there.

Yeah.

Stem cells at all? Or—

we are, and exosomes.

Yeah. Yeah. And I think those are They're another tool and they, you know, and the peptides actually, you know, stimulate the stem cells and then they'll also secrete peptides such as LL-37. And so everything is kind of, you know, either a good cycle or a vicious cycle that goes bad. So, so that's interesting. So timing is always, always key, you know, and when you use these things. And so I think that comes in with the art, right? It's like, you know, having treated so many patients that you kind of, you kind of get a feel. And I could almost, I think, like, do pretty close to, like, you know, I like getting tonsillectomies, um, but if I did none, I'd probably do pretty close, I think. But I think a big part is convincing the patient what they have. And that's where we're like, you look at the immune system and look at the natural killer cell function and their, you know, we can use C4a and interferon gamma beta. When those are abnormal, now you can tell, hey, look, there's something going on, let's find out what it is.

Exactly.

And because it's a tough pill to swallow, where we're getting a lot more done through their insurance, you know, labs, and then try to minimize the specialty tests, but, you know, I love when I have the luxury of getting those. What specialty tests do you find kind of bang for your buck?

So did you just say specialty tests?

Yeah, whatever it may be— gut, genetics testing, or whatever it may be.

Yeah, so Lyme testing right now, we're using a lot of Infectolab.

I have their folder. I really like them. They came out And I don't see that many new patients. I keep meaning to give a presentation to all the doctors on it, but I liked what I saw.

I'm using it a lot because they're able to give specificity of what infection is active right now in the patient in a way that other tests aren't able to do. They're looking at interferon gamma and interleukin-2 with respect to the tick-borne infections. And also EBV. And I mean, you know, usually we can, we can tell because we've seen these so many of these patients, we're able, we're able to tell what infections they have based on their symptomology.

But you have to show because they're going to go to their doctor, their friends, and they're, you know, how many times have I heard that, you know, the other doctor, there's no Lyme in California. And this one guy almost bit my head off, and he was so much better. We treated him for Lyme, and— but his doctor said, this is ridiculous, there's no Lyme in California. He calls like just screaming at me, and, and then I'm like, no, no, you know. And so the lab's like, okay, you either have 35 separate illnesses or it's, you know, one kind of thing. So kind of calming down, he goes, I'm feeling better, but my doctor said there's No way this is true. And then 2 weeks later, his dog gets really sick, brings it to the vet. Oh, the dog's got Lyme. You know? There you go. Yeah. So it's pretty— do you use at all the, um, the newer test that looks at the Borrelia bacteriophage?

I haven't used that one.

Yeah. So it's just new out, but, which is bacteriophage is a virus against the bacteria. Now, and they're being used in Europe and things instead of antibiotics. So they're very specific. They don't just kill everything, but there's no what's called a lytic phage that kills Borrelia. See, it always is like special, right? It, there's just what's called lysogenic phage that it hangs around. So when you look at your, we talk about like the microbiome, we're more bacteria DNA than we are human DNA, but there's, you know, 100 times more viral DNA than there is bacterial DNA. So it's really our next thing we're going to try to understand is the microbiome. And it's really interesting how, as you know, reading studies where, how they just interact. And if like one cell's study on, you have like good bacteria making butyrate, right? That's really good for your body. But if the level gets too high, it turns on the bacteriophage and starts killing that bacteria. Like, it's just like The Matrix or something, you know? It's, it's so incredible. So, and I think it's one of those things, the more you learn, the more you realize you don't. And I think the doctors that know the least are the more adamant they're right. But, so those are your 3 favorite peptides?

Those are my 3 favorite peptides.

Cool, cool. And you make something for— you like for localized pain, or you do for pain?

I do. So of course these patients have a lot of pain, a lot. And of course it's, it's, it is systemic pain they have, but in addition to that, there's localized pain in the joints, specific muscles as well. So using EPC-157 intramuscularly, just simple injections, either neurotherapy style or IM style. I have helped patients resolve pain that they've been living with for years. Last week I did this with two patients, both of them tears in their eyes saying, Dr. Parpia, I thought I had to live with pain forever. I got used to this. And all of a sudden I don't have pain. I don't know how. I don't even know what to do because I don't have pain. I can hardly fathom this. This is from BPC-157 injections.

And was it neuropathic pain? Musculoskeletal pain?

Musculoskeletal pain. Okay.

Yeah.

Now, speaking of neurological issues, I do have a patient, many patients who have tick-borne illness. One patient She's starting to develop more neurological symptoms in her Lyme. She'd come off of her IV antibiotics for too long. She moved away and got sicker, started to fall. Okay, and I injected BPC-157 just, just subcutaneously in the paraspinal muscles. She stopped falling.

Yeah, isn't that amazing? And just last night, I had a good friend over who does his exosome products, and, um, he, he said he was treating this guy, you know, terribly. You know, these stories where he dove off a boat and there was a rock, you know, 4 feet underneath, and couldn't walk, he couldn't, um, you know, go to the bathroom. And he just said he combined BPC-2B4 and the exosome and just subcutaneously, paraspinally. All of a sudden he goes, I can feel my legs. And he said, I have the urge to use the bathroom because it hasn't happened in years. Yeah. And it's amazing. Of course, he's been to how many neurologists and, you know, all these things and not even going in the joints. You know, and this guy will actually— like, if someone has significant joint pain, or he will guarantee they're significantly better before they leave the room, not the office, the room, or he gives the money back.

Yeah, I know I couldn't because—

yeah, it's bold. And he does, you know, basically just so pain. So you look here where the nerves are kind of coming in, and there's actually more studies on TB4, you know, kind of with nerve pain. But I think BPC seems to maybe work better, but there's more studies on TB4. And then ARA-290, which I don't know anyone who carries it, but some nice studies on that, on remyelination, or it's like, like MS, the peptides are can be amazing at reversing that. And ALS, it's, you know, ALS is lying until proven otherwise. You know, we have ALS patients come in in wheelchairs, they're jogging. We send them back to the neurologist, and neurologist, you know, it probably wasn't ALS. Well, 3 of you diagnosed them, and unfortunately you're going to treat the kind of a famous person in this, the Nagai wa Sappos that are donate $100,000 worth of stem cells to him. And, but his doctor said, it's, you know, not worth it. You know, it's, there's no way that's going to work. Like, okay, you're giving him a death sentence and telling him not to do this. And it's just crazy. But yeah. And, and just the rabbit work where it got just the mindset, but when someone's in that position, I guess I can't judge, right? You know, until you're in that position, you don't want to— like, making a decision is harder than making a bad decision.

Yeah, most of our, most of our patients have seen many other doctors before coming to us, of course without appropriate treatment, without success. So when they come to us, we have these treatments that are new that they are cutting edge.

And, or a doctor will say, oh, it's placebo. Our patients don't react to placebo. They have no placebo. They don't expect it to work. Exactly. Yeah. So, so that's true. So it looks like you do a lot of things and some of you've done like traumatic brain injury, which is obviously becoming a bigger and bigger problem. And would, just a quick question, would you let your child, boy, play football?

Probably not. Yeah, it's—

I don't mean, you know, there's kind of no right or wrong. It's just, yeah, maybe you see what's going to be preventive, right?

I, I'd be like, if you love it, if you love it.

Yeah, I guess I think where the big problem comes when they start getting so, so big and so fast now, that momentum, you know.

Yeah.

And but also, finally, it doesn't take, you know, major trauma. It's just repetitive trauma— skateboarders, you know, soccer players, you know, all those things.

Too many of them, too many of those people come in. That's why when you said football, I thought about the other sports where they get concussions and whiplash very easily. Um, you know, they're more susceptible to— yeah, tick-borne infection when that— if that were to come.

Yeah. And because I think, you know, I think if someone gets Lyme, they're fine, you know. It's when they get all the other things that— now we had, remember, whole family came in, the Nises family on the cheese farm in Central California. They're all sick except the dad, and and then at that time, which I'm trying to get back, was we had a microscope with immunofluorescent antibodies. And so we're looking at, oh my God, his blood was just full of Babesia. And more than anyone else, and he's fine. He's like, he wants like, oh yeah, I'm working out now. And it just shows how, you know, because the immune system was high.

Yeah.

And, but all the other ones were, were really sick. And then where it affected him, uh, he was okay. But let's see. So it's not like you treat so many things. I'm trying to think, uh, what do you have to do for sleep?

You know, for sleep, I, I do use a lot of herbs. Um, I do like to use an Ayurvedic sleep medicine if we have to, you know, we'll use medications, but really, if I use herbs and teach them relaxation techniques and, you know, not using light and internet electronics at night, usually we can calm it down.

Yeah. And you know, with all the EMF controversy, then we have our CPA who are baby neck, because she's got really— everyone in our office is lying until we kind of got them. But that she tells everyone— I started telling people, like friends of friends, whatever, saying turn off your Wi-Fi at night. And there was this architect, so I don't believe in that crap, and— but he did it. He goes, I slept great for 3 nights, and 4th night I couldn't sleep. I'm like, oh my God, I didn't turn it off. And he's like, yeah, I couldn't believe it. And wait till we get 5G, you know, and all the problems. And it's interesting. So, you know, doing a deep dive on peptides where you think most things work through a receptor, but like bi-peptides, there's no receptor. We couldn't find a receptor. And this one study showed it was harmonic. So you got this peptide vibrating at a certain frequency, which then stimulated the cell. What if you throw all these EMFs and Wi-Fi? Is that going to work, you know? So we'll see, you know, and it becomes kind of like, you know, fringe, oh no, you know, EMFs. But also it's shown to cause mold to grow, um, you know, if they suppress the immune system. And but the little cocktail I love for sleep is a combination of Delta sleep-inducing peptides epitalon, and then either growth hormone AOD, which is a fragment of growth hormone, or growth hormone secretagogue. So many people, it doesn't make you sleepy, but it kind of, it reduces that inflammation in the sleep center. So it seems like so many problems are inflammation of the hypothalamus and also right where all the pain centers are, you know. And actually, one study where I published that you looked at chronic fatigue syndrome versus fibromyalgia, essentially the same illness, but what they found is that the chronic fatigue syndrome patients had more inflammation in the pituitary, fibromyalgia more in the hypothalamus, where it kind of ended up the same, but they, the fibromyalgia patients, had more inflammation in the pain centers, they had more with the pain. And it's interesting. And also, Dulse is great at lowering inflammation. And so it really helps diabetes. That's where it also, inflammation in the hypothalamus causes insulin resistance. And so we just got a text from one of my girlfriends. She sent a couple bottles to her friend at BPC and TB4 Frank. And she lost all this weight. She was like, I love this stuff. And, you know, we didn't even tell her. Can do that, but she must have had some insulin resistance, inflammation, and, and she sends a picture and she's so happy. But, you know, so many things, as you know, inflammation, inflammation.

I can't wait to use the peptides for sleep because just as I've noticed that peptides make everything else go faster in my treatments, I bet you the sleep ones will too.

Yeah. As well as things, you don't sleep, you don't get better, you don't lose weight. And I'm do as I say, not as I do too much. I'm up all night and I'll get to start research. Also, the sun's coming up. Like, what are you doing? You gotta, you gotta, you know, pop, you gotta get up. But yeah, sleep is key. So that's been something that's been really good. And let's see. So peptides have really helped. And yeah, let's have you back on and do, as we talked about, kind of the sick patients and maybe optimization healthy patients. What, you know, because we tend to talk about the sick of the sick.

Yeah.

And but there's so many people that are, you know, I used to have energy, now I'm just dragging, you know. And I assume you use thyroid and hormones and, you know, and that's kind of my first passion was thyroid and that kind of got me through. Certainly, you know, chronic fatigue syndrome, which ended up being Lyme, but, but you had chronic fatigue syndrome before it really was chronic fatigue syndrome, which is— so my dad had it too, but no one— that wasn't even close. It was just the mystery illness, you know. But our whole family, and that's how I know I grew up with it, but Yeah, but you're right, so many people are sick, so many, and, and they weren't.

It's been very quick, but this has happened.

Yeah, and I think it's going to be exponential.

Yeah, I think it has to do with environmental toxicants.

Yeah, yeah, I think, yes, stress, that, uh, post-COVID syndrome coming up.

I'm getting patients now who who were, who did have a diagnosis of COVID who were hospitalized, and now all of a sudden they have tick-borne illness that they didn't have diagnosed before.

Yeah. So it wakes up the immune system. They tend to have chronic heart inflammation. Yeah. Yeah. So they get a lot of palpitations, heart failure. So are they going to be the new chronic fatigue syndrome? You know?

Yeah.

And, and, but really at this point, no one should be dying from COVID No. You know? And we keep waiting for this vaccine. What we have now is sufficient to keep 99% of the people, you know, and I don't know if you heard that ILADS, you know, COVID Scared to Talk About COVID you get a letter from the FTC, you know, but I'm not saying any care, just so you know, I'm saying, you know, that there are treatments that just say if you, you know, give to nursing homes, you know, give them— this is just a suggestion, you know, because I got a letter too for just putting, you know, with references, you know, about vitamin C and zinc and flavonoids and that probiotics. So we had the microbiologist for Microbiome Laboratories, Morte Megaspore. Yeah, great talk. And when I'm talking about why don't you just go, you know, you have someone give you a grant, go give the probiotics to all the nursing homes, probably save tons of lives. But they just have to have the million-dollar cure at the last minute, you know. Welcome to America. But don't want to end on a bad note. So, and I think a good base of the ending thing, you know, that, you know, patients, they just get so discouraged, right? And I'm sure by the time they see you, they just, many have given up. And they're, and I think it's interesting with human nature, it's people can be empathetic, I think, for about 2 to 3 weeks. And they go, oh yeah, oh, you're sick. I'm sorry. Then after two, you know, just get out and exercise and, you know, and especially spouses and family members and friends, they lose all their friends. And I think I'm gonna be sexist, but it seems to be worse for women. You know, they're like, oh, you canceled on my dinner. You know, well, I'm sick. Oh, well, I was sick last week too. I'm tired too. Too, you know. And they, and they just— you can't explain how bad you feel with this.

No, a lot of them are isolated.

Yeah.

By the time they come to people like us, well, we have therapies for them. Finally, finally someone's giving me a diagnosis. Finally someone has therapies for me. That's what they say.

And just want to Say we can never guarantee anything, but odds are good that we can help. And we have published studies to, you know, for backup. And, but I tell patients, you're not a study, you're a person, you know. We use the studies to try to figure out what's most likely, what's safest, what's most cost-effective, and we do that. But you may respond. 99.9% of people may get better with that and even out, but then we keep going forward, you know. And that's a nice thing is not having the 2, 3 treatments. You have hundreds of treatments, you know. Yeah. So awesome. Thank you so much for, for taking the time. And we'll have you back on and we'll talk about some healthy patients.

Thank you for having me.

So wonderful. Have a great weekend. And again, Thank you so much. Nice pearls in there, and they gave people hope, and thank you for that. Keep up the great work.

Thank you for your great work. Thanks for interviewing me.

Thanks so much. All right. Bye-bye.

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