Making the Connection - Looking at Unconventional Patterns to Solve Autoimmune Disorders

So I, I was talking to my trainer the other day. His gut's bothering him. He's drinking. I'm like, what are you eating? What are you taking? What are your shakes? He's shown me all his supplements. Every single thing he's taking has sucralose, which is basically chlorinated sugar, and it's just drinking bleach. So he's drinking basically bleach all day. I'm like, well, no wonder your gut's a mess, right? So it's gonna be having leaky gut just from that. But, uh, and when, just when you're talking about the GHK, it made me think of the VIP. Like the VIP, when we just were in California, we learned about how that was pretty much the only thing that they found. Epigenetically, like, turn back on the genome to make it work properly.

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Hello, this is Dr. Kent Holtorf with another episode of the Peptide Summit. And today we have a wonderful guest who I'm proud to call a friend and a colleague, Elizabeth Tringali. She's one of the early adopters of peptides. And I remember at a conference she came by. I didn't know her. And she comes, she goes, oh my gosh, BPC-157 makes everything else work better. And I'm like, wow. And she's just a wealth of knowledge and can speak on any subject. And just want to thank you for taking the time. I know you just opened a new office and hired a new physician and so much going on. So I'm sure you're exhausted and appreciate you taking the time to share your immense knowledge base with us.

Thanks, Josh, for having me on. I'm blessed to be busy, but it's always nice to share information to other clinicians or people that can use these pearls to help advance their health. So thank you.

Well, great. And yeah, just a little bit. So she's gonna talk about unlocking the secrets to reversing autoimmunity. So Elizabeth is board-certified physician assistant. She's a graduate of the University of Florida where she received her Bachelor of Science and Master of Science degrees and is a diplomat of the American Academy of Anti-Aging, uh, Medicine. Uh, since beginning her career in internal medicine in 1999, she has been known for helping patients achieve wellness and longevity goals by blending complementary and traditional medicine. And she's really ahead of the curve, and I really just love her passion every time I talk to her. She's found a new treatment, a new modality, you know, and she doesn't look like it. Is very, I guess, politically incorrect, very good-looking woman. She's a geek. He's a knowledge geek. But it's, it's great. And just her passion to help people is just inspiring. And while earning her undergraduate degree in nutrition science in 1995, she worked as nutritionist and conducted research for the Women's Health Initiative interesting, on folic acid to prevent birth defects in infants. After working in nutrition for several years, she returned to UF and earned her master's as a physician assistant studies from the College of Medicine in 1999. Returning home to Palm Beach, where everyone's flocking to right now, she practiced internal medicine and integrative medical practice and co-hosted a radio show for 3 years. I did not know that. Her nutrition background allows her to blend natural therapies such as medical-grade nutraceuticals and diet changes with allopathic medicine. And she's got that great ability to combine, you know, integrative, you know, natural, but is not afraid to use medications, very evidence-based. And I really did— that's kind of the way we practice. And just love talking to her and going back and forth and what's new and running cases by each other. And because of her background in holistic medicine, anti-aging, she was the first physician assistant to join the exclusive MDVIP medical program. And is that the telemedicine?

No, that was just MDVIP concierge.

Oh, that's where they send, uh, the toughest patients from everywhere to see the best doctors. That's, that's awesome.

It is. Yeah.

After several years, she joined a large family practice and assisted in developing a wellness center. During the time she completed a fellowship for the American Academy of Anti-Aging and Regenerative Medicine. She also completed a peptide certification fellowship through A4M. And she created individual detoxification programs for environmental toxins, heavy metals, bowel dysbiosis, food sensitivities, and weight loss. Just really the whole, whole gambit, you know, bring it on, she'll treat it. Her practice focused on treating conditions such as subclinical thyroid disease, and that is, you know, near and dear to my heart. Autoimmune disease, which we're gonna talk to about today, chronic fatigue, irritable bowel, acne, cardiac disease, and helping patients overcome menopause and andropause with use of bioidentical hormone replacement therapy and really perform state-of-the-art vitamin and metabolic testing. So Really, she's on the cutting edge of so many things, and we could do a whole summit with just her doing 30. So it's awesome. I'm a big fan, and I know she just gets great outcomes. I hear from patients. And again, thank you for, for being on the summit.

Well, thank you for having me. You make me sound like a genius, so I really love even more.

And very humble too. And so we're talking about autoimmunity. What basically autoimmune condition are you talking about? Everything? Or what, what do peptides help one thing but not another? Or, or—

I see so much Hashimoto's in my practice. You know, there's a correlation with mold. So living in Florida, everything with all those hurricanes, there's a lot of water intrusion. So we do have a lot of mold down here. So I have to say, I don't know, I want to say like More than half of my patients seem to have Hashimoto's. Not if I just have a reputation in the area, but every time I'm checking for antibodies, I'm seeing it. And they may not be full-blown, but they certainly have an autoimmune thyroid issue.

But they won't even check because they don't think you can do anything about it.

And also they found that one is that when you have antibodies to your thyroid, that you often have antibodies to your pituitary, to your mitochondria. And so it's, it's very unique.

You don't see it in Graves', which is interesting, but you'll see it in Hashimoto's. So a lot of doctors, endocrinologists, they won't treat just if you have antibodies because your TSH is fine, but their TSH is artificially lowered because of the Hashimoto's. And they also have antibodies to deiodinase type 2, which converts T4 to T3 in the pituitary. Now the antibody you think would lower it, but it stimulates the T4-T3 conversion in the pituitary. So they have lower TSH than a normal person would. And they found that getting rid of the antibodies actually makes people feel better than fixing their thyroid levels.

Right. And the endocrinologists don't even check the antibody levels.

Yeah, for—

I don't care. He's like, yes, that— DVIP. Yeah, they would just refer everyone out if there's a thyroid issue, but no one took the time. It's a covered test. It's an inexpensive test. Yeah, I think bodies are maybe like $15 to test. It's not expensive, but it's the only way we really know if there's something going on because most the population, let's face it, they're having problems with obesity. And this is a big piece of the puzzle. So, you know, with functional medicine, we are doing the deeper tests and we're saying, okay, well, why do you have these antibodies? And what I love about peptides, you cannot reduce the antibodies and get rid of them 100% with them. I especially love the thymosin alpha for that and the BPC. And of course my TB4. So those are my 3 favorite. But the Hashimoto's, there's so many environmental factors that I think are overlooked.

They are, totally. And you can— interesting, interesting study on obese children. The thing is with obese children, if they're obese children, their likelihood of being obese adults is so high. But the percentage of obese children with Hashimoto's is huge.

And, but they may not even have antibodies.

They looked at, you know, basically doing ultrasounds and biopsies and found like 80% of obese children had inflammation of the thyroid.

Wow.

80%.

Yeah.

That's pretty impressive.

So they're all low thyroid, but they all just eat better, you know, and then they go on this strict diet and that lowers their thyroid even more. Because the body senses that starvation.

And they've all persistent organic pollutants, you know, in the fat, and they can't get—

oh yeah, toxins, pesticides. And one study actually found that a high incidence— they just biopsied people with just fatigue, even biopsied the thyroid— huge percent had active HHV-6 in the thyroid but not in the rest of the body. And you can also see that with Parvo. And so the thyroid's dysfunctional, and then they also get the secondary and tertiary. So the TSH is low, which the standard tests miss almost 100% of the time. You know, what do doctors go by? The standard, standard test. So do you do any— like, how do you diagnose Hashimoto's? You look at the antibodies, you ultrasound a lot of people. And what base do you use? Labs, combination with symptoms? What else do you, what do you do?

Mainly labs and symptoms. That's not it. And I see it all the time. Maybe I'm missing a few, you know, with not doing like, can you even check the antibodies in the pituitary?

No, no, there's, yeah, you can only do it in research. But we are coming out with an assay. I've been working on this assay for 15 years. And we've gotten like 80% along the way and then something happens like the lab that first was got washed out in the Katrina, the other one they got to a point they couldn't do it. But so we finally partner with like a big company which, you know, we gotta get this done, but we'll be able to show who has this central hypothyroidism. But yeah, it's so common and we also do, you know, people's basal metabolic rate, which is low in so many people, and thyroflex, looking at people's ankle reflex. And, you know, and that's the thing, you know, the British Medical Journal showed that a knowledgeable doctor looking at someone's ankle reflex—

so with a normal reflex, but the lower the thyroid, the slower the relaxation phase was.

Didn't do it. So just a doctor hitting the ankle reflex and looking at it was more accurate than the blood tests. It correlated with symptoms better.

We don't really do reflexes anymore. You know, I really do.

Really?

No one does physical exams anymore?

Yeah. No, no. And, you know, the consultation, like, it takes me an hour just to get through the medical history half the time, you know, honestly.

Yeah.

But, um, yeah, it's, it's definitely an epidemic here. And you're probably seeing a lot in California, I would assume, right?

Yeah, I think it's a problem everywhere, and autoimmune just even in general. And just, you know, this immune dysfunction that we see where you see the imbalance, which I think is where, you know, the peptides are so good. There's a lot of good immune modulators, and, you know, LDN doesn't work for— nothing works for everyone. But, you know, safe ozone, IVIG is great.

But, you know, even diet, you know. So I'll take everything off gluten and dairy when I first name— well, gluten, dairy eggs, soy, and corn. And, if they can't afford the peptides and they can't afford a lot of supplements, I'll just do that and then make them sweat, get an infrared sauna or just go outside, do some hot yoga. They'll come back, those antibodies will be down 20, 30 points. So, I'm happy with that, especially when the endocrinologist says, "Oh, you can't cure that. There's nothing you can do." Absolutely. So, diet is definitely imperative. And, I think the diet also— well, I know it does, it makes the peptides work better. So, when you have less inflammation in your body, the signaling—

Absolutely.

Yeah, because you're just constantly stimulating that abnormal immunity. So you're just pumping out, you know, basically more antibodies and mineral deficiencies. Even just giving selenium, one study showed reduction 40% by giving selenium, you know.

Oh, wow. Isn't it amazing? As magnesium, yeah, everyone's low in magnesium. That gets different reactions in the body. People don't realize all your athletes, like, you see a lot of athletes, right? They're all low in chromium, calcium, potassium. So everyone comes in, they get like 5 basic nutrients, like a really good multivitamin. Vitamin, mineral, uh, essential fatty acids, B vitamins, probiotics, and vitamin D.

Because yeah, and I, I, there's no one's testing that stuff. And you think these athletes are so healthy. And I know you treat a lot of athletes, like, you know, high caliber athletes and people say, you know, they're not that healthy, especially the ones like, oh, you, you see like overtraining syndromes.

And they're really high trained.

And or if you check their, you know, telomeres or other ways of checking cellular health, you think they're so healthy, they're like older than their real age. You know, I think from all the oxidation and that, that's, I've seen so many people, the weekend warriors are just so dedicated, just boom, they crash and can't get out of bed, you know?

Right. Right. Well, a lot of physicians are like that. You know, a lot of our friends. I think it probably happened to us too.

That's how most—

that's how most people get into this.

Is that how you had—

as a kid? So I was kind of born that way. I was always tired, you know, just tired, overweight, asthmatic. Just my brain had— remember, like, thinking, my gosh, I can't even think straight, like pushing a thought through Jell-O, you know, just as a kid. And so that's what got me into nutrition. And I remember, you know, just going to different doctors University of Florida. I was probably 18 at the time, saying, you know, I just don't feel right. I don't think I should feel this way. And they'll go, you just have allergies.

Oh yeah, yeah.

Oh, you're just, uh, what I'm going through, right?

So I actually saw, do you know Dr. Dooley?

Bruce Dooley? It sounds familiar.

Yeah, he was a big chelation guy in like the '90s. I saw him, he said I had Candida. You know, I probably did. Put me on a Candida diet. Well, that definitely changed my brain. Like, it just cleared up that brain fog. And I thought, gee, if I can just do this with Candida diet and if I took an actual vitamin, maybe it'd make a difference. So, you know, I early on, I think I started checking my blood, my 20s, found out my thyroid was bad and my adrenals were— I already had like a DHEA of 50 at age 25, you know. So I was already burned out just getting out of school. So I'm like, if it happened to me, like, how many other people, you know, are around that we see?

Uh, and they're told normal, everyone's tired, you know. And do you use genetics at all? Sorry?

Do you use genetic testing at all?

Oh, you know, I was doing, um, I liked it too, the Intellect DNA. I really was impressed with that one. You know, first I was using 23andMe because you could integrate that platform with a lot of free things on the web. But there's a lot of controversy still about the SNPs. Like, just because you have a SNP doesn't mean it's being expressed. Yeah.

I mean, and really, that is the genetics are your potential. And it's probably 20% of what you know, you can work on if you get identical twins, you know, one gets diabetes and heart disease, the other one doesn't, they have same genes. It's, it's basically acting on them. And it's interesting. I just went through a genetic test with Dr. Miller with my girlfriend who just developed basically dermatographia. So mast cell and she had some Lyme and stuff and all the things that you think you would give. He's like, no, that'll probably make it worse. And they did. Um, yeah. And like glutathione, uh, probably is going to backfire on you. She goes, yep. You know, and when she's sick, if she gets better, she can take it. But it's interesting how those make a difference. But yeah, you can alter your genes. If you look at, look at a study on even, you know, one of the peptides, GHK, I think it was, showed like 40-something good genes it raised and activated, and 22 that they know of, bad ones that it suppressed. So, you know, the peptides work quickly, but they also work epigenetically at the gene level and change the way those genes are. So if you have the gene, you can turn it off. Doesn't mean that it, that it's active. And that's also like the gut, you know, the gut plays such a big epigenetic part of our system.

Right. Hence, you shouldn't be drinking Splenda, you know. So I was talking to my trainer the other day, his gut's bothering him, he's drinking. I'm like, what are you eating? What are you taking? What are your shakes? He's showing me all his supplements. Every single thing he's taking has sucralose, which is basically chlorinated sugar, and it's just drinking bleach. So he's drinking basically bleach all day. I'm like, well, no wonder your gut's a mess, right? So it's gonna be having leaky gut just from that. But, uh, just when you're talking about the GHK, it made me think of the VIP. Like the VIP when we just were in California, we learned about how that was pretty much the only thing that they found that epigenetically like turned back on the genome to make it work properly. Remember when, um, uh, who was saying that? That was Shoemaker or yeah. Oh, it was Andy. Dr. Hanan. He was saying that. Yeah.

Yeah.

I liked him. I, yeah, I, I had to say a little bit, cause it does tend to raise pH too, but you know, everything has its place.

Right? But I was just impressed that he showed that slide that pretty much everything that every Lyme and mold patient has wrong with them, you know, whether it's the dermatographia or the mast cell syndrome or the brain fog or just problems with detox, methylation, glucuronidation, sulfation, every single pathway he spoke of that VIP fixed if you can get there. So the problem with the VIP is you have to clear the Marcons, which is very difficult.

Yeah. And that's what we found is that you try it, it doesn't work. You got to kind of do a lot of other things first. And could you just mention what VIP is?

Sorry? Can you mention just that? Maybe it's—

Basal intestinal polypeptide. So it's a nasal spray peptide that we love to help with the gut and it gives you energy and it just makes you feel great, especially if you had mold or Lyme. But to be able to use that peptide, there's all these steps you have to follow, which is difficult, which is why I really like the thymosin alpha peptide. Because pretty much everyone I see with autoimmune, or even if I think they're autoimmune, like, you know, just with the mast cell or the red, you know, my hands turn red when I eat, that kind of thing. If you put them on the thymosin alpha first and kind of prime them with your basic supplements, most everything else you do will get better along with the BPC. But that thymosin alpha, very few side effects, no contraindications that I'm aware of. Do you know of any?

Yeah, no, it's, you know, it's all the thymosin. So, and you look at basically your thymus here in your breastbone, it basically involutes and stops working. It starts very early on, but then by the time you're 35 or 40, it's about 5-10%. And so what it does, it causes that immune dysfunction, lowers that Th1 T-reg, increases Th17, which is the autoimmune and the inflammation. So all the thymosins, so you got like thymosin alpha 1, probably the strongest Th1 booster. Thymosin beta-4 kind of in between. Thymosin in between as well, probably more anti-inflammatory. And then BPC lowers that Th2. Now thymosin beta-4 is a long peptide, you can't take it orally, and it does have multiple domains that do different things. It has one domain that stimulates mast cells, But overall, if you give it, 9 times outta 10, the mast cell is gonna improve because you're fixing that immune system and not stimulating the mast cells. But, you know, so with the, the TB4 Frag, that part is taken out.

As you know, before I started using the Integrative Peptides product, the TB4 Frag, I really love the shots, you know, but they're expensive, you know, and the oral peptides are a little less expensive. I wasn't quite sure how well it'd work, but with one of my case studies, I couldn't— I was floored. I think it brought her thyroid antibodies down like 200 points on one within just a few months. So I mean, the oral peptides, absolutely. Like, if you can figure out how to get the absorption, which you did, to work properly, I mean, it's a great affordable alternative to doing the shots. And there are a lot of people that don't want to do shots, you know, they've got that needle phobia. So, yeah, uh, TB Fuller Ag absolutely works.

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Yeah, like BPC is shown to be equal potent if you take it orally, subcutaneous, IV, intraperitoneal. But some people just like shots, some people, you know, like oral. But people think—

what do you think?

Milligram for milligram for the BPC versus the shot? Like, so like 500 Oral. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. That's what the studies show. Much studies show that it didn't matter which way it was given. Because some people may have gut or, you know, issues. So, but people just think of it as a gut hormone, but it's actually a longer, you know, it's still a very short peptide, but it's longer than what typically absorbs. The problem is you get people throwing these peptides in, you know, sublingual. There are only 3 peptides you think you're going to absorb. No, because it matters what they are. Most of them are very hydrophilic or lipophobic, meaning they like water and don't like lipids, so they don't absorb very well. So even a tripeptide, very small, may not absorb. So, you know, people are just given those. So we're doing the studies to really look and see, okay, which one's been absorbed. And now how the heck do these longer ones absorb? What happens is they can form where all the lipophilic side chains, amino acids, are on the outside so they can penetrate. And so it's, it's interesting. So generally the smaller the better, but not perfect correlation.

Well, that's why VVC is so good. I mean, it's only 15 aminos, so yeah, pretty good.

Yeah. But even usually like a 4 amino acid is tough to absorb in general. And even 3 could have a lot of problems. But some longer ones absorb, just their conformation.

And, and there's a lot of—

and it's interesting, you look at, you know, studies on bioavailability, and there's so many theoretical way— okay, you do, you know, liposomes, not—

don't work so well with, with those, but, you know, microspheres.

And, and I'm not a big fan of like stuff where it breaks down the tight junctions and lets it in. I've already got a big enough problem with leaky gut.

I don't want to make it worse.

Are you talking about the oral diabetic peptide? That's Michelle.

Yeah. Yeah.

Or Balsus, I think it is.

Yeah.

So that, that's a big, you know, peptide, but they're breaking down the gut barrier, you know, supposedly short time and heals. But what are these people who are not healing?

You know?

Most people, right?

Yeah.

So, so what— so you mentioned the peptides that you like most for autoimmune. Do you use any of the melanocortins, KPV?

Oh, you know, I just started getting the KPV. I only have one person on it. I don't know why I was so slow to use that. It wasn't in my initial certification. Like, I don't know if I just—

well, because no one had it.

Yeah, it just came up. So, um, I'm using right now in a lady with, uh, gastritis and colitis. And she said she was feeling like 20% better on it.

I think you'll get some good improvement. And it's probably one of the most anti-inflammatory and mast cell inhibitors. And the thing is, so like, I know like Corey Turcher, he talked about Lyme. He'll use melanotan, which is great. It has all the anti-inflammatory and has the benefits of making you tan and losing weight, increase libido. But if you're young, the tan looks good. But if you're older, you get age spots that come out and all those things. So the Cape EV is actually just a tripeptide of it that has the anti-inflammatory, actually even more potent than the full peptide, and but doesn't have the melanocyte stimulating. So it doesn't make your skin darker.

But the one nice thing about the melanotan, besides the skin thing, you know, it does help. Alpha MSH. Are you checking that in many people?

Well, well, the Alpha MSH, you know, these are Alpha MSH agonists, so they're going to work on the same receptor, right?

So with everyone you check, they're low. Like, the range is 0 to 100, which I don't know why they have zero, right?

Oh yeah, yeah.

What is that, zero? Like, like, I love it when they do estrogen, zero to something.

Oh yeah, yeah. Oh, but I'm in range, I'm a 2. But anyway, the Alpha MSH for like most of my mold patients I check is like 9. 8, 10. So I will use the thymosin alpha for them and I'll use the melanotan tube then as well. And it, it goes up, which I always impressed with, but I mean, there's so much more to it. But yeah.

Don't you see alpha-melanocyte stimulating hormone go up with melanotan?

Yes, it goes up with the melanotan. That's what I see clinically. Can't tell you what the research says, but when I use the, and maybe it's the TA-1, the thymosin alpha 1, but when I use those, alpha MSH will go up.

Yeah, that's interesting because usually when you use an agonist, it's kind of replacing it, right? I'm going to check more into that.

Start checking your patients. But again, I'm using with the TA one, so maybe it's the thymus and epiglottal line, but I, I like them together, you know, for immune system help. But if I'm worried about the tan spots, the sunspots, I will use the GHK-CU, and then you can do that topically too, and it seems to help. It's not tremendous, but it definitely helps lighten those spots. Because they happened to me. You know, I was using the Melanotan and I was like, oh my God, I look like an old lady now. I've got all these freckles everywhere that I didn't have. And I don't have time to get lasered. Like, I'd love to, but I don't have time. So I started—

yeah, I did the Melanotan and, you know, I'm ADD.

So I guess it wasn't working. And then, you know, there's a lag. All of a sudden I was so dark.

I looked like—

everyone's like, oh my God, where are you from? Some, you know.

Ethiopian tribe of, you know, it was, I just looked like a freak.

It's an odd color too, right? Like, uh, you're tan, but it's like a tinny almost color. Like there's a, it's a weird something.

And then I turned blue from a long story, but true colloidal silver cannot make you turn blue. And I wrote a paper on that and I didn't have a problem till Someone recommended another product, which actually is silver salt, silver protein, because it was stronger. Within 2 weeks, I was totally blue. And it's irreversible in general. I was able to reverse it. And they would do laser on me. And then the person was like, oh my God, it's like a tattoo. And because it's basically metal in there.

Is it still in your nail beds?

Yeah, it's still in my nail beds. Yeah, it's better. But, uh, and then I took Dapsone, which is basically an anti-malarial, you know, broad spectrum, very oxidative. And I got methoglobinemia, and then I was purple and fluorescent purple. And thank God I was at home, and I'm like, this isn't good. And I had methylene blue. Why would you treat blue with methylene blue? But that's the treatment. It's very antioxidant and reversed it. But, uh, I was very freaky looking. I was a Smurf. Yeah.

Now, how did you do the methylene blue? Did you do Lypozol?

Uh, nice little guy. You drink the water? I did an IV. I had a PICC line in at the time.

Yeah.

Gosh, you're always so interesting to talk to.

Yeah. Oh, I've almost— yeah, I do everything myself. I do toxicity studies on myself. You'll see that.

What are you learning?

And yeah, I felt like I was going to die a couple of times here, but yeah, don't give yourself complex. Honestly, I'd rather deal with it than go to the hospital. That's where bad things happen.

But I think you told me you gave me, you gave yourself a MIG or a B-complex shot that was like from 2016.

Oh, it was the Poly-MBA, which I think is great, but I told my IV guy, Oh, there's some on my shelf, but he didn't look that it was open and 6 years old.

Oh, that's crazy.

And so I just injected preformed toxin. I'm just shaking, you know, and blood pressure's dropping. I wouldn't go to the hospital because they're going to tell you're there. Yeah, but like, blood pressure got down to— what was it? 40 over 20. And, but I felt like you still deal with it. But then someone called the ambulance. I got really mad. And then I went in and I said, well, can you— I got sepsis, you know, I'm just telling them that. And I, you know, I can't stand up, but, you know, and then I asked for IV vitamin C and a bunch of stuff. And they go, what do you mean IV vitamin C? I'm like, it's only been every journal for the last 4 years showing that the only thing to lower the death rate in sepsis, you know, and totally safe. And they're like, we've never heard of it. And these are the ICU doctors. And so I give them the studies and like, no, they're not going to do it. And then one nurse went and convinced them. Oh, I convinced them. And then 8 hours later, they come in and give me 500 milligrams of vitamin C.

I go like, okay, if they were in emergency at 7-Eleven, they are using it now for COVID, you know, so that is nice. They're actually doing it.

Yeah, but they're not— it's like, you know, and glutathione, if you saw the article by Horowitz where he tried to get this patient some glutathione, which probably would have saved the patient's life, a senator tried to get the hospital to do it, and Horowitz tried to beg the hospital to do it. Senator drove like 4 hours to pick it up.

They were on—

the hospital wouldn't do it. And by the time they approved it, like 3 days later, the guy died. But you can reverse. And I gave a talk on peptides and stem cells for COVID-19, and the studies on stem cells, exosomes, peptides, just reversing it like immediately, within 15 minutes.

The thalassin alpha, I mean, it's pretty immediate. So my patients that I have a cure already have it, use it. One of my doctor friends got it. I put her on thymosin alpha, 50 units for 3 days in a row. She cleared it, made antibodies. So it was tested positive, made antibodies in 5 days, very few symptoms. And then when my husband got COVID, same thing, 50 units. Now I know you can use a full syringe, right? Or a full vial rather, IV. I just, I don't know, I was a little conservative, but he had it for 5 days.

Oh, no one should be dying. Even just giving their study people on ventilators where the death rates like 50%. So they had a control group, 50% died. The other group, they just gave vitamin D, not even a big dose, went from 50% to 5%.

Wow.

And hello, why aren't we just handing out vitamin D, zinc, a flavonoid? And then also with sepsis, thymosin beta-4 is shown to go to zero. And they don't know if it's used up or it's suppressed, but giving that tremendous benefit with sepsis as well. You know, all the thymusins like thymosin alpha 1, thymosin beta 4, thymulin, thymogen, all those things. So it, again, it modulates immune system, lowers that IL-6 and the inflammation, which, which is the problem. And it's also boosting the good immunity where steroids help, but they're lowering the good immunity as well. You know, where the thymosins basically are going to modulate that immunity, right?

That TB4 frag, I have to say, I have a handful of patients I put on while they had COVID and reversed their lung issues, and definitely no like post-COVID cough that you hear about, or post-COVID complications, you know. And that's not like I did a study, but clinically I'm seeing like it, it reversed all their complications with their lungs.

Yeah, and so many treatments that are like that And look at, you know, the Brownstein study. He gave people with, you know, moderate to severe COVID where they had decrease in sats. He gave them nebulized hydrogen peroxide, and all but one were just discharged, dramatic improvement symptoms on average within 20 minutes. Sats came up. One person sent to the hospital if sats came up but not quite as much as they wanted, just to be sure, and they immediately discharged them. But you can't even mention it. You know, we had an article on taking zinc, vitamin C, flavonoids are very good, even probiotics are good, with tons of references. Within 24 hours, the FTC said, take that down, it's fake news.

Where was— where did he have it posted, like on his website?

Yeah, oh yeah, on his website. Isn't the same with us, you know, we weren't selling it. They were saying, here, take these things. And 24 hours, boom, warning letter from the FTC saying you can't say anything prevents. Now the FTC, they're different than the FDA. They don't care if you make drug claims or whatever, as long as they're true. And we had 50 references and no, so you can't make any claims. I don't care if they're true. It doesn't matter. I mean, this is what we're getting to more and more.

I mean, we'll look at Twitter and Facebook and Instagram.

I mean, yeah, yeah, it's bad. But anyways, we can go on and on and we'll probably get letters ourselves. So let's see.

So what else?

Yeah.

So some common autoimmune, more systemic lupus. I know I get a lot of patients come in where they go to rheumatologist, they get diagnosed with mixed connective tissue disease, meaning they have a lot of autoantibodies but don't fit into any pattern. And you'll see, you know, antibodies kind of come and go, multiple antiphospholipid syndrome.

A lot of that. Uh, we'll, we'll see that.

And once the doctor, well, it's genetic, you're not going to fix it. I'm like, it's going to go away.

And it goes away.

Yeah. Have you seen a lot of the nuclear speckled pattern lately? I don't think I've ever seen that much in my life this past year. Have you seen a lot of the two?

Yeah.

You know, we'll check in, but I don't pay too much attention because I just say it will go away when we get rid of it.

And they go away. And I think, you know, the diet, the peptides, some supplements. But this nuclear speckle pattern, I mean, I've been checking ANA for 20 years and I just recently seen like so much. So I'm thinking there's some new trigger that I'm missing besides mold and heavy metals and deficiency. Yeah.

Well, I think it's I think it's multifactorial. And for instance, another study showed that heavy metals weren't really a cause of autoimmunity, didn't increase it much at all. Unless this was a study in Africa on people in mine— what was this, cesium or gold or something? But whenever— so that they didn't have autoimmunity unless they had malaria. Then the heavy metals just shot up the autoimmunity with that combination, and even just exposure.

Yeah, so Andy Heyman, Dr. Heyman, was saying with mold people and Lyme people, when they have that toxic exposure, all of a sudden they can't detox. So a small amount of aluminum from like, you know, drinking out of a Yeti cup or drinking out of a LaCroix can like that, that would be toxic to them. And so maybe that's why. Maybe it's just like that genome, their ability to— Yeah, definitely shut down.

The problem is that doctors go, or multiple chemical sensitivity stuff, or even people with these allergies, well, I'm fine. Or mold. Well, I'm fine. I live in that house. Well, yeah, you're not susceptible. Or even people, if you just have Lyme, you're probably going to be fine and you may never have symptoms. It's when you get everything else, you know, it could just also be stress, age, you know, toxins, pesticides, plastics, chronic infections. You know, there's so many things that, that affect any mitochondrial dysfunction. Everything's a vicious cycle.

And then once you get there, it's like, well, what's the cause? It's kind of like There's so many, which is why you really need multi-system treatment, right? And we're in standard medicine. You got the neurologist doing this, the cardiologist doing this, gastroenterologist doing that. They don't put it together.

I love when I hear them say, oh, you don't need to detox, your body does it on its own, right? You hear that all the time. Yes, you need to detox. Your body's not doing it on its own, clearly, otherwise you wouldn't be 300 pounds with psoriasis, your hair falling out, even Yeah, let me ask you, what, what do you like to do for detox? I love that DesBio kit. Have you done that DesBio comprehensive detox kit? Uh, it's like, it's like 6 little vials and it's got all these different homeopathic remedies in it and tinctures, but it's, it works. Like, you'll get, there'll be people with like 6 Lyme bands, after you just do this cleanse, they're gone and they feel better. Or, um, you know, their mycotoxins will go down, but it's just these little tinctures you put in water and drink throughout the day. It's relatively Senses. That's my favorite. Or I'll do IV detox. I'll do my total body ozone dialysis, that EBO2. That's great detox. Ozone sauna, infrared sauna. I like a lot of those shakes. Like, I'll use Opti-Cleanse from Zymogen or the Core Restore Detox. That's a good one too. That's a 7-day kit from Orthomolecular.

So what's in that in general?

Oh, so the Core— they all work on, like, uh, it's got, like, calcium deglucurate minerals like molybdenum. So what else? Methylated B vitamins, watercress.

Are they binders too as well?

Sorry, are there binders in those?

Not too much. Like, there might be some— like, artichoke is in there, maybe. I don't even think they have bentonite clay, but a lot of fiber, inulin, you know. So I think they're using binders just with the fiber. But I'll use it as a gentle cleanse in the beginning, and then I'll go to something like the GI Detox from Biobotanicals, or I'll use Quicksilver. Quicksilver is a great detox cube. Have you used that?

They're actually a great company.

Yeah, yeah, Chris Shade's a genius. I love him.

And yeah, and actually like BPC is shown to, you know, bind and protect from toxins as well. Do you do any lymphatic work or anything like that?

With our Hockett, it does a lot of lymph drainage, and I'll refer out for that.

I love the Hockett. Yeah, he had the Hawken. But, uh, explain what the Hawken is.

So the Hawken is this ozone sauna that has infrared, has a Rife machine in it, it's got pulsed electromagnetic frequencies in it, it's a PEMF machine, carbonic acid.

Basically, carbonic acid dilates your vessels before it puts the ozone in.

Yeah, so you sit in this little egg for 5 minutes, you get the carbonic acid, it helps with circulation, blood flow, calms you down, makes you feel very chill. Then they've got infrared going on the whole time. Then they pump in the ozone. You've got oxygen on your face. You talk about don't breathe the ozone in, but it's like 30 minutes, very relaxing, but it's working on every single thing possible. So that's an excellent detox, but you have to go to a clinic that has them. And there's a pretty good amount of clinics around that have them.

Yeah. And we had one and we just couldn't get people, you know, this, the staff never mentioned, doctors have mentioned it. Plus we only had a tiny room where you have to get naked or your shorts, you know, and it wasn't conducive to it, you know.

Yeah, you, you have to have the right staff. You have to kind of make it like very zen and spa-ish, but it works. I mean, yeah, for people that can't afford IVs and peptides even— well, I'll put them on BPC because that's pretty affordable, and I'll show them in that little detox pod and make it better.

So we gave it to our CPA who loves it. She's got her own pocket. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so yeah, who knows. But, uh, yeah, I have a lot of, a lot of gadgets that I think work well, but it's, you know, unfortunately marketability. You only got so much space, and you know what the doctors, they want kind of makes sense or makes sense to the patient. You know, sometimes it takes too long to explain how something works. It's like, well, you Or sounds crazy.

Well, that's why honestly I generally try to give a gift to my patients like the first time I see them just because they don't know me. You know, this word of mouth, usually don't really advertise. And so I'll say, you know, try one of these packets on me, or I'll say, you know, try this supplement on me. Sometimes I'll even give them a BPC because like that is a— wait, I think it's like almost $200, but it's a very pricey supplement. But I meant it when I met you, like that if there's only one thing I give somebody, BPC-157 makes every single thing you do work better just because it wakes up the brain. It tells the gut to work again, helps with absorption. It's like all the signals are back on. Oh, I love it for fertility. Like, I didn't even— it wasn't trying to use it for fertility, but the people I kept putting them on it for other things, they kept getting pregnant. So now it's part of my fertility.

Yeah, it's the inflammation's a fertility killer. Uh, have you used Epitalon for fertility?

Not for fertility. I use it for sleep and longevity.

But, um, yeah, the one study showed— it's a rat study, I think it was 135 menopausal rats— they gave them all Epitalon. 65% started menstruating and 25% had normal birth.

Wow.

Uh, with it, it's probably ultimate anti-aging peptide, you know, showing you Another, another study, people over 65 years old with cardiovascular disease, 15-year study about the people on the epitalon, and they also combined it with thymulin. So thymosin, like thymosin alpha 1, thymosin beta 4, TB4 reg, they work very synergistically. Found their cardiovascular system got better, not worse, and they had like between 2 and 4-fold decrease in cardiovascular events, mortality, morbidity, and cancer.

And they only did it every 3 times, 6 months apart.

Yeah, you don't have to do that much. Yeah.

So yeah, I mean, it's like no downside, like, and we're sitting here playing with statins and which they'll, if you look at the studies, it's like that and placebo or like right here that, you know, they do huge studies to try to get that statistical significance because it's not that big a difference. You have to treat 99 patients with a statin to get benefit in one, and you're getting all the side effects from the others, including diabetes, memory loss, dementia, neuropathy.

Yes.

And more and more studies are showing that statins aren't the way to go, or it makes me sick. It's malpractice to give some 40-year-old guy with high cholesterol a statin.

I mean, it's, it's nuts.

Or a 90-year-old female, you know, put her on a statin at age 90, you know, really fry her.

Yeah, it's shown not to work for diabetics, elderly, who are the people you would think.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it's nuts. So with the thymus injuries, it sounded like you like Thymosins, can you mention the mechanism? How they—

I used to, they work on the T helper cells. So like you were saying, you know, they just help basically with autoimmune disease, the immune system gets confused and it makes all these little antibodies to attack this foreign invader, which happens to be your tissue. But you know, so it's attacking your thyroid or your pituitary or your gut if you've got IBS. So thymosin, again, I use more alpha than I hardly get it. It just seems to tell the T helper cells, hey, like, don't attack this, calm down, attack that, and just decreases the inflammation and then makes the immune system work the way it should. That's what I find. The beta I like for hair, I have to say, not the frag, but the, the shot.

No, that the frag will not work for hair, but we will have a hair frag, a hairette, the fragment for hair.

Little—

you'll have what?

Oh, you're gonna have them coming out an oral TB4 hair frag.

So it will be much smaller. So there's domain, domain that has all that anti-inflammatory immune modulation. There's domain that stimulates mast cells. There's domain that grows hair. That is only 4 amino acids. So much smaller. So gets into the scalp. So when does that come out?

Are you doing an oral version of that one?

We'll probably come out with some cream with the— oh, I should say someone's coming out with— ideally is a very potent stem cell exosome product. Exosomes would get in the tissues and then add the peptides to that that are shown to stimulate hair growth. Thymulin also, good studies showing significant hair growth. Maybe even better than, than TB4, but thymogen does not, and thymosin alpha 1 does not.

Oh yeah, just like I use the GHKCU per hair, and I'll just use beta, and of course BPC.

I love it. Can you talk about GHK?

Yeah, I mean, just the, the GHKCU, right? I think that is amazing. I mean, it's got some anti-cancer properties, some antimicrobial properties. It's seems great for hair, skin, nails, lightening of the skin. I like that. And then for COPD, like really good for like issues with the lungs. I've been using it for that lately with my elderly patients.

So are you doing that as injectable?

Injectable? I started doing a little bit in the, in the IV, but I don't have enough experience to say like, oh, it's great or not. So I just started— it's too difficult for the patients with COVID now to be coming in, getting the IVs. So it's easier to stay here and just ship you this peptide, give yourself a shot every day. But yeah, I still—

oh, uh, sorry. You'll see it in cosmetics. And the whole problem with, you know, there's a ton of peptide cosmetics, a ton of, you know, stem cell cosmetics, are usually apple stem cells. And the amount of peptides they put in these things is so small, you know. They work actually, but not nearly as much as is a good dose. If you have GHK and it's not blue, there's hardly any.

Oh, it's all blue. But so what do you think about the products that they're compounding topically? I think they work. They get Botox in the bottle now, the topical. It's got the GHK-CU and then something— it sounds like arginine, but it's not arginine.

Uh, yeah, there's—

that's, that, that's been the mainstay. Oh yeah, arginine.

Yeah, something like that.

And then the new version of that, Lufosil.

Yes.

But I always announce all this stuff with no one to talk to about. And then combining those even works better. So they're really like Botox topically. So they'll paralyze the muscles and they work. And then you get like GHK and then we like adding like the TB4 Frag, BPC, kind of the rejuvenative peptides as well. We have some, or some people come with some special ones that that you may not have heard of. It's very cool. But like what? Huh?

Like which ones? So like you're holding out on me. Sorry, you're holding out.

We don't know yet. Well, it'll be a surprise. But yeah. And we're finding it's very interesting that very small peptides, let's say 2 peptide, bi-peptides, Like, how the heck could they do something? And very interestingly, they couldn't find a receptor, right? And it looks like the studies show that they work harmonically. So, you know, each molecule vibrates at a certain thing and it stimulates the cells to do this, which makes me a little scared of all this, you know, EMFs, Wi-Fi, 5G. Like, how much is that going to mess up that, you know. And if— do you do anything with EMFs and tell people like turn off their Wi-Fi, or—

oh, definitely. I mean, it comes up like I do, um, so there's like those, uh, biofeedback machines. I think we were talking about that the other day. There's a new one I'm using called AO Scan that I like lately, but it picks up everyone's full of EMFs. So yeah, turn off the Wi-Fi, keep your cell phone like 8 feet away if you can. Oh, even like—

yeah, so you should get a meter and look at the European standards for what is acceptable for long-term exposure of EMFs, and you put your cell phone next to it, like, it should be less than 10. It can go up to a million. And I've had lymphoma patients— don't have a lot, but they come in and I ask, did you live by high-tension wires? Bingo. Because it's more of the— there's, you know, basically electrical field, and then you got the magnetic field. And those big high-tension wires, the big problem is the magnetic field. And seems to be lymphoma is like one of the major things, which also makes me worried about electric cars. You know, that are those cancer mobiles.

That's a good question. Yeah, my brother has one. He's a pilot, so you know, he's getting fried all the time. Yeah, he's up and he's enough for immersion and he's got every single gadget known to man because he's loves all his electronics, and he's only 2 years older, and I love him to death. Just tell him he's getting radiation. I know one of those EMF meters, and I'll check throughout my house. My husband thinks I'm crazy, but in my old condo, I could never sleep. And right behind my bed, I don't know what was in the condo, but it was like the meter was off the chart, as if my cell phone was like right on it.

And so we had to move the bed, and I've slept a little bit better.

But I think condos are just Wired.

They are. And then you get, you know, dirty electrodes.

There's so many sources. And you're actually— it also stimulates mold growth.

Yes, yes, everything else. So we're in downtown West Palm Beach where my clinic is, and there's a lot of high-rises. And I'm like, why is everyone full of so many mycotoxins? Like, it's definitely— they're all in the condos. So I tell people, you got to move. There's nothing you can do. Sorry. But what do you think about this whole 5G thing? I know it's off topic, but I'd really like your opinion.

I'm very worried, you know, and the thing is, so the electromagnetic field basically activates. So it's, you know, especially at night, you want to turn it off because it's activating where the magnetic part is the cancer part. But we're being bombarded, you know, and you look at like how much damage, like you look at the Cuban embassy, right? They sent electromagnetic waves at these people and they went crazy. Or you look at space sickness, you know, they're being bombarded with electromagnetic waves and they go nutso. And so it's, it's scary. And I think it is, again, it's a long discussion, but it can make people like kind of very black and white polarized. You know, don't see other points of view.

It's a little scary, like a little mind control-ish, you know.

And then the concern is all the heavy metals will react almost like an antenna with the 5G. That's my concern.

Yeah, when you add that to heavy metals and yeah, it's oftentimes, you know, never one thing, but when you have, you know, four things, it's like, you know, one plus one plus one plus one equals 50, you know.

Yes, that's energy.

And you mentioned BPC. I know you're a lover of BPC-157, Body Protection Compound.

Yeah, it's colitis, Crohn's, constipation, you know, digestion, hormone issues, brain fog, traumatic brain injury, migraines. I mean, that pain— I use it for like just plain old arthritis, skin issues, eczema, psoriasis, like Pretty much you name an illness and I'll say, you know, and when I lecture, like, people, this is crazy.

You can't do all those, like, snake oil. But it's like, here's all the studies. And then the biggest comment I get is, how come I haven't heard of this when there's so many studies on it? And they go, wait a minute, you know, this is crazy that something could do so many good things and have no toxicity. You know, they can't find a toxic level. You can't take 1,000 times— take 1,000 doses, no problem. You can't do that with water. You know, so it's interesting.

But yeah, not condoning high doses.

Talk to your physician. So do you start one peptide at a time with someone with autoimmune, or what's your— well, what's your protocol?

I hate— I'm not a big protocol person.

Yeah. It depends on the patient.

I have to say, in general, in general, where do you—

so in general, I use the BPC first. If they can afford to layer it with the TB4 for— I'll do that. So those are like right there on my shelf, easy. They can go home and start that today.

That's become our core too.

Yeah, I have to say, that's what I do. And then, and if they can afford the estrogen, I'll use thymosin alpha. If it's more like Lyme viral infection stuff, maybe I'll start with the alpha and the VC first, and then I'll add in the TB4. But it's always those 3, honestly. I'm pretty boring, but I get great results with those. Yes, now the 8PB, though, I'm gonna start using that too. But I just love how affordable and how easy I can access the TB4 Fred and the VP4.

And, and how has it changed your practice using peptides?

So I don't have to use as many supplements. I don't have to do as long protocols with IVs and with the detox. It seems like it's changed it because I get results faster. So it helps my outcomes, which then helps your bottom line because then people refer to you like, oh, I saw this person and she helped me in just one session, you know, which used to be like maybe 3 or 4, maybe 5 sessions, right? Maybe even a year it takes to get someone to change. So it's changed my practice because I get results more quickly and it's changing people's lives, which is much more important than my practice.

Yeah. And And then I give a lot out and, or like, or conferences. So that knee pain, here, take this, right? And come back and go, I did not believe this is going to work, but my knee pain I've had for 3 months is gone, you know. Yeah, you know, people say, well, it's not that expensive, especially compared— I mean, supplements are so expensive now, right? Um, unless you get some cheap thing from Costco. But you actually save money because you don't have to do all the other things.

You don't need as much, right? So when people come in with these cytokines, like, really high and all these markers of inflammation. And normally I'd have to get like a fish oil, CoQ10, quercetin, and you get capsule fatigue, you know. Yeah. So I can just give them like a BPC and one other thing and say, okay, you know, let's see in a month what happens.

But they always work in tiny doses too. So a lot of things like with supplements, you got to take the powder because you got to like, you know, take so much or 8 capsules. And these work in actually even nanograms, you know. Basically 100,000 less, or mostly microgram doses we use, you know, which is where supplements are usually milligrams, which is 1,000 times more. And at tiny doses, or even TB4—

was TB4 or BPC— basically compared to acyclovir as an antiviral, outperformed it at 1/100th the dose.

Oh, wow. And that was that a human study or a rat study?

I think it was a human study. I could be wrong though. Yeah. And every study I've seen on, there's not that many. They've all been on viruses. I want to see studies on bacteria, but it's been tremendous, you know?

So you're using a lot for Epstein-Barr then?

Because we have all the herpes viruses. Yeah.

Well, and everyone I test is positive for HHV-6. You know, you were mentioning that earlier and we see that I tested for dementia. But I guess we all have it, right? Do you see that patients do? Like, it's—

yeah.

And, and the thing is, with— like, you look at the herpes viruses, is, you know, standard we're taught in medical school, and unfortunately infectious disease still think this, is that, you know, you make IgM antibodies first, and which aren't very good. They just kind of hold on to the organism. They don't activate complement, which kind of explodes the thing. then you make IgG. So if you have symptoms, they'll say, well, you know, there's IgG, it's old infection, it's not active. Well, no, because it's a reactivated infection. And you'll see the opposite with Lyme is that they'll be IgM positive, right? And so they'll say, well, you've had these symptoms for a long time, uh, so it's obviously a false positive. But if you don't have good Th1 immunity, you can't convert IgM to the more potent IgG. So you give the thymosins, you know, or you can also treat the infection. But if your immune system is low, you don't have good results usually. So let's say you give, you know, the thymosins for that. All of a sudden your immune system— now all of a sudden IgG lights up. Because now your body's able to start fighting it.

And you'll see when you do a Western blot for Lyme after giving the peptides, the Vimosens, even sometimes BPC for me, all of a sudden you'll get 5 or 6 bands when you only had one.

And then you're like, oh, which is proof that they have it.

Or also, like, you know, they want 5 bands, which is crazy to be officially positive, but you have like bands like 39, like No normal people have those bands. And then you add— it's like the lotto. If this one is, let's say, 1% of people, this one's 5% of people, you add those together and it's like 0.0000% chance that it's a false positive. But they go, oh, it's negative.

Like, so you can sense our frustration if you're listening in with what happens in real medicine and why there's so many diagnosis and why people are still so ill.

And my doctor says I don't have it. Yeah. So just look at the— up, it says negative, you know?

Yeah. There's nothing wrong with me. You know, you've got fibromyalgia. Well, where do you think fibromyalgia comes from?

You know, or yeah, there's a cause. I think that did a disservice because it labeled people, but it allowed doctors not to look for a cause.

Right.

And just say, oh, here's an antidepressant, go away, you got fibromyalgia.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Just buy me. What do you think about this global pain syndrome they're using now?

Oh yeah. You know, and there's like ME, which, and then, yeah. So they changed chronic fatigue syndrome to the, oh my gosh, post-exertional fatigue syndrome. So really, if you exercise or have stress, you get worse. Or the fibromyalgia diagnosis is so ridiculous. 11 out of 18 tender points. There is nothing special about those tender points. I remember watching this rheumatology video of I took a durometer, you know, a little machine to measure, and it took them like 30 minutes. I'm like, there's nothing special about those points. How do you diagnose fibromyalgia? You have muscle pain? Yes.

Okay, you have sleep disorder?

Yes. Are you fatigued? Yes. Do you feel worse when you actually— yes. You have brain fog? Yes. It's like, so, and actually I did a review article on the hypothalamus-pituitary-adrenal axis in chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia. And they found they're really the same illness. One's just diagnosed with, with basically an exam, and the other one's diagnosed with symptoms, but they're the same. But the fibromyalgia patients had more hypothalamic inflammation and dysfunction, and the chronic fatigue syndrome patients had more pituitary, which ends up being kind of the same, but the pain centers in the hypothalamus. So the fibromyalgia had more pain.

So what's your go-to for fibromyalgia patient with your peptides?

That—

what?

That's your go-to peptide treatment?

Oh, now you're putting me on the spot.

Wait a minute, we're not supposed to.

I'm going to read an email. Yeah, yeah.

No, it's kind of saying— I mean, you know, and people say, oh, there's no tests. I love doing a lot of tests, getting a lot of information up front, painting a picture. And we can tell without talking to the patient, knowing any history, how sick that patient is and if they have fibromyalgia, Lyme, SIRS, whatever it may be, you know. So don't tell me it's a made-up, you know, illness. It's doctors say, oh, it's psychological because they don't want to look into it and have to treat it.

Once they believe in it, now if they don't treat it, they're a bad doctor, right? Now they can blame the patient. But yeah, really, you know, we've turned into an immune modulatory clinic. I think we found that we get the patients from point A to point B much quicker. Like, even if they're positive for Lyme, because they're giving antibiotics, you know, not yet, they won't work. I did 4 and a half years of the highest dose IV antibiotic, it did nothing except made me sicker. And that's what I went, you know, found and really look at the immune system, that if you have no immune system, you can never take enough antibiotics to kill something, your immune system has to take over, right? They have to knock it down. And then with the low immune system, you're reactivating viruses, which suppress immune system more. They make but Th2 higher, so you get autoimmune, you get all these things. So, you know, we really look at immune modulatory, look at the gut, and thyroid is key. You know, I've lectured so much on everyone's low thyroid with a chronic illness or aging. I would say give me T3 peptides and ozone and you could cure more patients than most specialists.

I agree.

Maybe a little heparin thrown in there.

Yeah.

Yeah. And or LL-37 chemokine peptide. I think you're— do you use that?

Yeah.

Yeah. I like that for autoimmune. I can't start there because it kind of will hurt a little on that.

You'll have a little reaction.

You gotta watch out. You gotta watch out. Because when I first did it a number of years ago, there was no dosing data. So I just go, okay, let me, let me just do that. I did like a cc, and oh my God, I thought I was gonna jump out of my skin. And I had to see patients, and I was like having a panic attack and like talking to the patients, like. And then my partner, Integrated Peptides, is looking at me like, I've never seen anyone like this. I'm like I'm doing all this GABA, like Max Relax, and doing stuff, and I'm like, don't touch me. I know, but I got to see patients, you know. Um, so I've learned, yeah, go slow with that one.

That's funny. Yeah, yeah. So I'll usually use thymosin alpha first and then the BPC, then, then I'll throw in the beta, and then LL-37 is my last one, for me at least.

Yeah, because it's nice, it, you know, gets into biofilms also. BPC and especially the TB4 frag is so small it gets into those biofilms, as does LL-37, and breaks them up at even at nanograms. So 1/1000th of the microgram to— it breaks up biofilms. So even super low dose is gonna— it's gonna help your patients.

So when it's breaking up the biofilms, do you feel like people have a little reaction to that? On the oral tibial.

They can, but not, not a huge amount.

Yeah, I don't see people react to that too much. Sometimes my mold patients, if I hit them too hard with the BPCF at first, which sometimes I'm, I'll get aggressive and I'm like, oh, do 2 twice a day, 2, 2, 4 times a day, you know, something crazy. And I'm like, well, that was too much.

Because, because in general it's kind of an immunomodulator, so it's, it's a treatment for Herxheimer as well. I think of the phymicins. Uh, I mean, like BPC to lower that Th2, and all the thymusins work for Herxheimer, but thymulin probably is the best. It's much more anti-inflammatory.

You know, I don't use thymulin.

I need to use that one.

Yeah, and not many people use it.

What's your dose?

It's basically the same as the others, you know, so like 3. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you can go up higher. And for instance, with TB4, so they're very synergistic with so many things, as you know. So they'll boost stem cells. And when we were— we would do a lot of stem cells, we switch more to exosomes or decellularized growth factors now, which are how stem cells communicate. Stem cells don't go to an area, start growing. They don't do that. They've had studies where they separate, you know, the stem cells from the injury and they work just as well. But they work through— they secrete little packets, protected packets, lipid that go to the cell that where they're needed, fuse and dump the contents right in there. But so we were giving thymosin beta-4, BPC, AOD, LL-37, also great stimulator of stem cells. And I put one on the dose, right? And so I meant 1 cc, but Arvile said 1 milligram. So 1,000 micrograms. They were doing one vial, which was 30 milligrams, right? And which is— I know I should have nipped this whole thing, but I didn't know because there was never a problem. And after months, I go, oh my God, what happened? Tell me. Well, from bad effects, no one had people on fentanyl said my pain's gone, you know. So it's like, it shows this. So that's what the studies show, that they gave healthy people, I think they went up to 1,250 milligrams of IV of TB4. IV, no reported side effects.

I wanted to ask you this. So they found in cancer patients that they made more, uh, TB4, like to protect themselves, to protect— I think it was a lung cancer study I was reading, and they had higher amounts of TB4 in their cells. Can you comment on that?

So when you look at the studies on TB4, there are some studies that will show that there's higher TB4 in the area of the cancer. And if you look at a couple ways is that, you know, you look, hey, there's a fire, there's firemen every time I go there, they must be causing the fire, you know. And so it's secreted in response to infections. But also the cancers will secrete a TB4, which happens to be a little different type of TB4, right?

And the level is so much higher around that than—

because it stimulates healing and, like, you know, growth and healing. So basically a cancer can use it to grow, just like giving vitamin D. And it also, you know, can increase angiogenesis with people. Oh, cause cancer. Well, yeah, so does vitamin D and vitamin C, which are shown to reduce cancer. But there's no way you can get the level of TB4 in that area by giving it. You can't come close. But most of the studies, for instance, on like melanoma, they just give it directly to cancer. It suppresses cancer. So it you know, listed as anti-cancer, but there are studies showing that, hey, there's higher levels around cancers. One explanation may be it's a body's response, or it's like, hey, high white cells cause cancer, you know. Yeah, so it's, it's the response, and it's actually a different modification of TB4 that the cancer cells are secreting.

But in general, it's good because it's raising— if you look at or I see this so much, and the studies are clear, and I have this on like my, one of my lectures, where when you get like something resected, let's say, oh, we got everything, there's still cancer cells around, right? And the rate of relapse directly correlates with your level of natural killer cell function. So natural killer cell function is that Th1 marker that monitor your body for intracellular infections, for cancer, and which is— we find is a marker for chronic infections, chronic Lyme, chronic fatigue syndrome. One study found chronic fatigue syndrome, which a lot of those are Lyme, most all have chronic infections, that 75% had low natural killer cell function. So they had natural killer cells there, but they were infected, didn't do anything. And 25% had low number. And that number correlated and was directly correlated with the amount of disability. So the lower the NK cell, the sicker they are. And I remember, you know, mine was, you know, sometimes 0 to 3. Normal should be 30. I remember when I had sepsis in the hospital, I was in the ICU, And I hear the nurses outside saying, well, this is that AIDS patient who keeps turning up negative for HIV, you know. And I've been tested, you know, I don't know how many times because, well, now my immune system's good, but it was so low that I couldn't fight anything. And it was really Lyme, Babesia, Bartonella. Babesia, probably the biggest immunosuppressant in my opinion. But that directly correlates with symptoms. As does C4A, which is the, you know, and then human transferring growth factor beta. Problem is those are probably the 3 tests they screw up the most. And yeah, that what?

LabCorp seems to be the best getting those for a while.

You can get them, but I've talked to them so much and I love them. You know, they brought their whole team in, the medical director. I said, your tests are not correlating clinically. And it's a little scary too, is we sent our web guy just really basic tests to a Quest and a LabCorp on top of each other, just do the same test each one, like just went one to another. One showed he was diabetic, the other one showed his blood sugar was great. Like one was, yeah, 5.9, the other one was 5.2, hemoglobin A1C. One insulin was like off the charts. The other one was 2. And these are just basic labs.

They do this to me enough to know. It's like, it's often you'll send them in to do tests, sometimes they'll run it twice and they'll give you the report and they're totally different. And it's from the same people's blood. So then it's like, well, is it someone else's blood? I don't know. And I don't even know why they ran it twice, but I'll get the report and like, same day, same person.

Yeah, it's, it's discouraging as a doctor and as a patient. Are, you know, I had like when I was sick, I had my veins were so gigantic. They were just like garden hoses, like all my legs. I remember like walking up the stairs, this kid going, Daddy, what's wrong with his legs? You know, and they were huge. So I go to this cardiovascular surgeon, sclerosis, my greater saphenous even. And my legs were small for so long.

And then he did.

I said, you know, I got this vessel here. Can you do that? And he does.

He goes, oh shit.

I'm like, what? He goes, can you see? I'm like, yeah. You know, and then he does it again on the other side. Can you see?

And I'm like, yeah.

And then it necrosed my forehead.

But anyways, but like no one will do that.

And then it turned out to be my VEGF, vascular endothelial growth factor, from that Bartonella stimulates, made my vessels huge. They weren't, varicose. They were just gigantic.

Then I got rid of the Bartonella and now I have no veins.

But yeah, it's— that's now if when you check VEGF, Quest seems to have a big problem running it. If it's zero, it's worthless.

Okay. But if you have a number, it's good. And you'll see that is another marker for Bartonella.

Quest, they don't do zero. They do less, at least in Florida, they do less than 31. So it could be 29, it could be 2, I have no idea.

Yeah, but, but if you get a number, it's probably okay. But you, when you get, when you get zero, then it's, it's just, it's worthless.

LabCorp, their BioJacks are better now. There's a plasma, a plasma and a serum. Which one do you order?

I think we figured, I ran them in parallel. Am I going to mix them up? I think this is real at all. Yeah.

I don't know which one.

Yeah.

And Eosinophilic cation protein, ECP. Do you check that?

No, I don't.

So that's a marker. It's made by eosinophils and it can go up with someone with significant allergies, but usually you don't see it that high. But if you check it on someone, oftentimes it's high normal. Then if you treat them for parasites or antimalarials and it, it often goes way up. Now you just have the diagnosis for Babesia.

Oh, that's good to know.

Yeah. And then the other test that I love is do on pretty much everyone. You look at the immune system, do those markers, because checking for these infections oftentimes, I mean, a negative means nothing, you know, there's no insensitive, is the coagulation panel. So you check basically D-dimer, human transforming growth, no, fibrinogen, you, uh, fibrinogen, prothrombin fragment 1 and 2. Thrombin, antithrombin complex, and plasma inactivator activator, PI-1. And if any one of those are positive, they have immune activation of coagulation. And so what the body does, it tries to lay down this fibrin to block off the infection. So, which is good in the short run, but now your body can't get at it. And it also prevents nutrients getting in, hormones getting in, waste products getting out. And if you find nothing's working, often we've found that we've did IVs and just nothing, and it wasn't getting in. And all of a sudden you treat that, you give a low-dose heparin, people freak out like, 'It's safer than aspirin.' The doses that we give, 5,000 units twice a day. Feel good.

Don't you feel good? Well, you feel amazing. And how toxic am I that a heparin drip makes you feel good?

Yeah. And it's immune modulator, and it, it actually suppresses Babesia and Lyme. And the thing is, once you clean that up, it usually takes 2 to 3 months, and they feel so much better. There's a little test that you can do. It's a little parlor trick, kind of. It's not perfect because it does depend on patient motivation, but you put a pulse ox on, right? So it measures the amount of oxygen in your blood, amount of hemoglobin that's saturated. So usually 97, 98, and then you let people blow out all their air and hold their breath as long as they can. So now there's no oxygen coming in from the lungs into the bloodstream through the heart, going to the cells, but it should go into the cells and then be used up and come back as deoxyhemoglobin. So the saturation should start dropping after 10, 15 seconds. Now you'll find people with a coagulation defect is it barely drops or sometimes none at all. And people, that's great, your oxygen, your blood still 96, uh, it's bad, your cells aren't getting oxygen. So normally it takes 2 seconds to get into the cells, but it takes 2 minutes with this fibrin. And so a lot of people kind of air hunger. Give them a little heparin, boom, solves it. Uh, I was one patient, we're doing IVs, all of a sudden we gave him—

he was just resistant to heparin.

Then we finally gave it to him, he goes, everything's working, you know, because we cleaned out the gunk. So it now got into the cells. So when I have people with a coagulation defect, which is so common, immune activation of coagulation, a lot of original studies done by Berg, but I say I have good news, a bad news. The bad news is you have coagulation defect, The good news is you have coagulation defect because we can treat it. And the nice thing is you clean it up and it stays away.

Do you feel like, do you feel like the netokinase and the Baluk, is that, uh, usually not strong enough?

At least ADD over time it will be. I think it's good to keep it away, but you can use that with the heparin. But usually a little heparin for a couple months will act much quicker. Lovenox also works. Other ones don't work. Aspirin doesn't work because that's a platelet issue. All the newer anticoagulants don't work. I haven't used a lot of them because they're so expensive and they don't cover it.

They—

where's the clot? Well, it's everywhere, but it's a pre-pre-clot. But warfarin, forget it, don't even use that. And then, you know, on like the Masterminds mast cell group, which they think heparin's bad, right? Mast cells can secrete heparin, they, you know, all these things. So I'm like, you can kick me out of the group, but I'm telling you, heparin will suppress mast cells. You're crazy, you know. And so I got kind of convinced, I'm like, let me take the patients off heparin and put them on something else, at least Lovenox. And I call them, I'm like, can we switch it? No, I'm not switching, you know. So I have seen like 3 people out of 10,000 or whatever feel worse, where I think it's releasing all the infections from the gunk and they can get a heart to die. But in general, so I don't worry about it. It's not enough to raise the PTT either. And you'll find people with coagulation defect, they'll have, you know, a low-end PTT and a low sed rate, which is interesting. So normally think of high inflammation, high sed rate, but if it's low, think of coagulation defect.

Well, you know, we do see a lot of D-dimers cause it with mold and fibrinogen. I have not been checking that full coagulation panel. I'm going to do that now. Are you using LabCorp?

Really, with that one doesn't matter too much. I remember I brought my test in just my cardiologist to see what he had to say, and normal's less than 0.5. Mine was 50, and I said, what do you think? He's like, you got a pulmonary embolus? I'm like, no. And he's like, I don't know.

He didn't care.

He's like, I don't know. And then he walks away. Yeah. So, but my blood was so thick you could not draw it out with a 14-gauge needle.

Well, so this is the problem we have with some people doing that total body ozone dialysis, the EBO2. Like, you know, even though we give them heparin— this includes me, so I'm starting to worry, like, oh my gosh— but we'll, you know, get heparin and it's like slow comes out like, uh, like ketchup, you know.

Yeah, so I'm gonna go out and visit Matt Cook and check it out. But that's what I worry about because I've done a lot of stuff for like the 10-pass with the machine.

Oh, it claps.

I've never got more than 3. So we do 10-pass, just fill up a big bag of blood and then put in a liter of ozone, you know, and then do it that way and doesn't clot. And two, you don't have to sit there and watch the machine, but it's that machine.

Yeah.

Yeah. We found a better way to do it and get the great results, you know?

Well, that EBO2 machine is very helpful and having good success with that with patients. But yes.

So that also has a kind of a dialysis, but also a plasmapheresis filter.

Yes. Yes. It has plasmapheresis filter. And then we are using UV with it too. So as it comes out, It's going through the UV and on the Grismek back in. And I think I use the red light on the opposite side, or is it the red light, the UV? I forget. But we have two different lights and people feel great. Sometimes they— no one's hurts, which is nice. Some people get a little tired, but the first time I did it, I felt like I could run a marathon. Second time I did it, I was like, well, the second time I did it, my blood seemed a lot thicker. So I don't think I got the full treatment because you're supposed to be able to get 5 liters of blood in an hour with the pump because there's like a pump to like pump your blood and you have a 20-gauge. Yeah, so it's fast when you come, you know, we'll use— Dr. Cook will do it to you. But I'm certain, I really think I need more heparin. So how are you dosing it daily for people?

Usually work up to 5,000 twice a day.

Okay.

Now, side effect of heparin can be heparin-induced thrombocytopenia, so platelets drop. Never seen it. I think it's impossible with the doses that we give, but it— to be totally safe and conservative, check up CBC after a couple of weeks, but never, you know, which is never easy.

And that was the thrombocytopenia.

I mean, what you'll see is very interesting when you give heparin is that your body's clotting everywhere. So it's laying down fiber and breaking it up. Now, if it's just there, the test can be negative because it's measuring actually the body breaking it down. So some people will bruise initially because what happens is you're using up all your— it's like a mini DIC, like people get in. The sepsis, they use up all their coagulation factors. So they bruise wherever you hit them and you give a little heparin. So for a little bit, couple weeks, maybe, maybe sometimes longer, they bruise easier, but then it goes away and gets better because now they're not activating their coagulation and they're not using up their coagulation factors. So they're ready for where you need them, but they're not clotting everywhere. And with the plasmapheresis, I never went up to Isaac in Santa Rosa. I forget his last name, but, you know, and I did it and he's like, I've never seen, you know, as he has a container of the dung that's filtered out. He goes, I've never seen anyone with this color. You know, it's like I'm always the unusual one, you know. But then I went to the hospital and asked, I want to get one plasmapheresis. How much would it be?

And they go, well, I don't know, but it's 80% off.

I'm like, okay, great. Like, how much? Well, how much is that? She comes back and says, you know, $38,000. And I'm like, okay, 80% off of that. She goes, no, that's with the 80%. For one treatment I was paying, I don't know, $1,500 or something like that before. So it's, it's crazy, but a lot of great treatments like that.

And, you know, plasma freeze is nice because it, you know, will freeze out autoantibodies, all these, you know, inflammatory cytokines and things like that. So I love that treatment. I got it down also with Omar Morales at Lime, Mexico. He has some great treatments down there. He can do some things that we can't. So, you know, the way the FDA is looking, they're trying to ban, you know, if something works and is totally safe, they wanna ban it. You know, they're really the enforcement arm for big pharma. And so I was thinking we gotta get a bunch of doctors together. I probably shouldn't be saying this on here, But, and then getting a big ship and going 14 miles off the coast and practicing medicine there, you know, it seems else, right? Yeah. Because, you know, people are moving. I've talked to so many integrated doctors that are like looking for places to move to, to other countries. What's these skin peptides?

I would just, I mean, for skin, I love GHKCU. That's like a no-brainer for skin, right? And then BBC, it gives you a nice glow and I think it helps with collagen and elastin and definitely. Makes my Botox last longer.

There you go.

So I like it for that.

And then a lot of patients with just like psoriasis, you know, I know there's autoimmune skin, they get better. But you know, something Jim Laval taught me I thought was genius was a lot of the skin issues are fungal-related, systemic, you know. And you'll see it if you do mycotoxin testing, or if you even just check Candida antibodies, or the basic spit test for Candida. So yeah. People don't—

yeah, in the—

you know, it's interesting, if you have a chronic infection, don't go to infectious disease. They won't treat it. And they'll say, when you mention, you know, oh, systemic candidiasis, oh, the person would be in the ICU, you know.

Yeah.

And that's not how medicine works. It's not black and white where you're here, you're fine. But that's how they treat it. So, you know, as you know, what are lab values? They take 95% of the people only the highest and lowest 2.5% are considered abnormal. And so if you're the lowest 3%, oh, you're fine. The lowest 2.5%, oh, you're abnormal now. Also, they take a bunch of people, and the labs have to do their own reference ranges. And so they take sick people, obese people. You look at testosterone levels, the reference range 10 years ago was much higher, 10 years before that even higher. And they just keep lowering the reference range. And so now a person is like a 90-year-old and they say, oh, you're within the normal range. It's, it's great.

You do that with testosterone. It's crazy. So now I use Empire Labs throughout New York. So they're saying now that a testosterone for man is 175 to like 850 or something like that. 175? Like there's women I treat that are 175.

You know, they should be.

And, and they just keep trying to, you know, demonize testosterone. All these studies show, yeah, low testosterone increases heart disease. I mean, just increased cancer, so many issues, grumpy old man syndrome, erectile dysfunction. And also, as you get older, you downregulate your receptors. So really, you can argue that you should have higher levels You know, I'll treat some men in their, you know, 60s, their testosterone levels 600, 700, but they have all the symptoms, right? So I'll say therapeutic trial testosterone. I like a combination of nandrolone that doesn't convert to estrogen or DHT, but go on that, give a shot. They go, oh my God, I'm a new person.

But they were totally mid-normal, but 20 years ago they'd be low. You know, and oh, diabetes, blood control, depression with low testosterone.

Same with women with low estrogen. And, you know, they let these women be menopausal. Well, it's natural. Yeah. You're going to get dementia. You're going to get heart disease. You're going to be depressed.

So I'm 47. My hormones are changing. I can tell, like I can see my estrogen dipping. I'm watching my labs, but oh my God. And you just don't get as much pleasure out of life. You're not as happy. You don't sleep as well for sure, but your mood— and I'm like, no wonder. Like, if I didn't know any better, I would think right now I need Lexapro. Well, so I just started some estrogen, you know, and I— here's a regular— like, a regular gynecologist would say you don't need estrogen, everything's fine. But I do. Like, my brain for sure, my skin. But my—

oh, then they want to give you birth control pills.

Oh yeah, in your 40s.

Yeah, like, because that's— because they do that and People go, oh, I'm good.

You know, I just basically have my period every day, increasing clotting factors, increasing inflammation. It's low as a sparrow. Of course, all your hormones, all your growth hormone. And if you want to cause cancer, take a progestin. If you want to prevent cancer, take a progesterone.

Oh, and I love when they think the progesterone is the one that's a progestin. I'm like, no, that was that Women's Health Initiative study. You know, it's It was the Prempro causing the cancer, not the—

and, and so I did the review, the Biodentical Hormone Debate, which looked at Derystrin, progesterones, and progesterone. The problem is they'll use progesterones in a study and call it progesterone.

Right.

But you look at every head-to-head study and also mechanistically that pro— the progesterones like, uh, Provera was approved cuz it protected the uterus like progesterone. Which it does, but it has the opposite effects on the breast. The progestins cause cells to divide and stimulates multiplication. Progesterone prevents it. So right there, very different. Heart disease— the progestins dramatically increase heart disease. Progesterone prevents it. And anytime you take oral, you can take oral progesterone, but oral estrogen the, you know, they gave them Premarin, which is horse estrogen, as a quinolone, known carcinogen. And they, you know, huge clotting factors. Now, even if you take bioidentical orally, you're going to increase your clotting factors some, but not as bad. But when you do transdermal, let's say someone's had a pulmonary embolism, don't take estrogen, which is wrong. You can show the studies. If you do transdermal, no increase in clotting or PE. Actually a trend to decrease, you know, because they're going to get less cardiovascular disease.

But that was going on for a long time.

I can talk to you forever.

I know you're such a genius. Thank you. I always learn so much.

No, same here. I love talking with you.

So you can have like a series of lectures that you post like on your website.

I think you should. Yeah. So due to overwhelming, I wasn't going to do it.

But I have so many lectures on peptide. We're going to start a peptide training course after a while, a couple of webinars, and then kind of do it more of a deep dive type thing.

I don't want to make it where I want to make it affordable. And, you know, just, I'm worried about time, but after we get done with the summit, I'll have some time. But yeah, so I think it's kind of my duty, whatever, to give a Give back.

So thank you for having me on.

Yeah. And thank you so much. I know you're in such demand and you get all the celebrity patients, which you can have because you're just on the cutting edge. I love your passion and I know how many patients you've helped. And I actually, I don't know, I've heard of a lot of them and that's just a tiny fraction. Uh, just hear so many good things and easygoing person. Humble, and I award you with this trophy. Uh, thank you. I'd like to thank the Academy. So I think it's getting late. This is our one of our last lectures. So, uh, no, thank you seriously, and for what you do, and wonderful.

We'll be— we really appreciate your knowledge and for sharing with everyone. So thank you. Great.

Thanks so much.

All right, thanks for joining us on the Peptides and Longevity Podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, don't forget to subscribe, share, and leave a review. It helps us reach more listeners passionate about optimizing their health. For more insights, resources, and updates, visit our website at www.holtorfmed.com. Together, let's embrace a future of health and vitality. Until next time, stay inspired and keep thriving.