Allowing your path to reveal itself with Devesh Kumar

I am Travia Steward, and I want to help you move past barriers and obstacles that are preventing you from getting what you want in life. This is Breakthrough. My guest on the Breakthrough Podcast today is a guy who loves aligning himself with inspiring people who have taken bold leaps fallen down and gotten back up, but they kept going because the call inside of them was bigger than the fall outside of them. He works with leaders who bring rhythm and flow to the world of business, and he helps them create a life and a legacy that's a full expression of the symphony alive inside of them. Guys, that's just his intro. This guy is poetic. He could easily do spoken word and he doesn't. He has such a presence and a rhythm in his voice and he makes you really want to listen. At least that's the effect he has on me. Keep playing as we dive right into Devesha's first powerful breakthrough experience that he's had in his entire life. Listen now.

I want to start with the story because I think stories— well, firstly, the logical thing is they bypass the logical part of the brain and the metaphor really sinks in, into the body, past the mind. And I think that's the magic of life, is letting things sink into the body and not just understanding them intellectually, but Letting the body understand so the body can be in harmony with the wisdom of the mind, with the intention of the mind, and we can work in tandem instead of moving separately. And the place I really want to talk about is probably the most important moment in my life. And it's going to sound a little bit cliché, but what happened there was far from cliché. Um, you know, Up until the age of 29, I had had 5 career changes, but no matter where I went, every single time I got a promotion, I realized that I had to be less of myself and I had to be more of what the mold wanted me to be. And I quickly realized that the reason why people suffer, the people around me, people that were older than me that were really successful, they were stressed out. And I found that the reason why we suffer is because we try to fit ourselves in containers in which we can no longer be contained., and we feel suffocated. I was at that point at the age of 29, and a very good friend of mine who was like a mentor to me at the time told me about this 4-day event called, you know, Tony Robbins. And I know this sounds really, really cliché, right? And I'm not a, you know, Tony Robbins fanboy. The man's done incredible work. But I went to this 4-day event, and I didn't know who he was. All I knew was this event was meant to really help me, and I didn't even look into it. I just took his word for it, and I paid $1,000, and I just went. The third day in, I felt so much possibility that all the stuff that I was stuck in, I didn't have to be stuck in, and I didn't have to go 2 years to uni. I don't have to, you know, spend 3 years doing this. I could make a change right now. And I was so ready. I believe when we go to experiences, it's not the experience. It's us. It's what we're ready for. It's what we're ready to allow. It's what we're fully ready to receive. And on the third day, we were doing this process where everybody had their eyes closed. Then it's, you know, it's a timeline process. Everybody's done it. Um, but something amazing happened to me as I was in the middle of this process. I started imagining all this stuff from my past timelines, from lives before this life, just a heap, huge black mountain of just tar that I set alight, and the whole thing burst into flames. And in that moment, something happened to my body. My body started shaking. I had like these tears streaming down my eyes, and I opened my eyes. I opened my eyes a flash. I literally just blinked like this. And in that moment, even though the room was pitch black, I saw that the whole room was bright white. It was like a blinding light, but it was soothing to my eyes. And I literally saw 5,000 people in the room with a beam of light coming out of the top of their head. And there were people littered on the floor in front of me, and I literally was in this giant arena hall, and there were beams of light coming out of the top of everybody's head, and it was like barcodes that were shimmering like a harp, like a music that was playing back and forth, but they made the shape of a giant being. And here I was— that is like stamped into my mind, that's stamped into my soul. I saw a huge arena, and I could see the ceiling of the arena was the bottom part of this giant ethereal being's chin and his left shoulder. And it was made up of 5,000 people shimmering like a barcode. And in that moment, I had never been to an experience like that. I've never been to a personal development event. I'd never even heard of Tony Robbins. I'd never heard of, you know, energy, or that we're beyond this physical form, but I saw that and it changed me forever. In that moment, it's like I was, I was given this giant jigsaw puzzle. It's like I felt this thing inside me. And in that moment, I realized that we're not just one. Even my body is made up of little micro, you know, amoebas and bacteria that are having a full-blown conscious experience that think that they're living their own little lives. But they're all connected. And because they're all connected without even knowing it, the byproduct of them living their life is me. And the byproduct of us living, we're part of maybe some other being in some other form in another dimension that I can't even put words to. But in that moment, all the stuff that I cared about, like, you know, I'm not good enough, or, you know, what should I do for my career? What should I do for my job? Mate, those were such small conversations because I just witnessed this and I wanted to understand more of this. You know, I came out of there and everybody's like, yeah, I'm gonna become a coach, I'm gonna double my income, I'm gonna do this. And my only thing was, I'm gonna be the master of the moment and the master of my energy. That's all I care about, because I can then dip into this endless something and experience oneness with all of existence. And that is alive inside me. And everything I do, everything I say, everything I strive for has to be in alignment with this inside me that I can feel is so real that I will never fall for something as simple as, you know, how much money I'm making, or just a one-dimensional metric. Because life is not black and white. Life is a symphony. It's a moving, rhythmic, harmonic— everything is in a symbiotic relationship with everything else. And I could never just be one-dimensional. And I saw the people around me fall into those traps, but I found myself not falling into it because I was given this experience.. And from then on, 1 year later, I took a leap. I left my job. I literally followed my intuition. Within a month of me leaving my job, I'd, you know, earned 4 times what I was earning in my corporate job working for myself. You know, within 2 months of that, I got like, you know, this is not a big deal. You know, I got my first $1,000 an hour clients, guys making like $10 million a year. But it wasn't about the money because I didn't see him as the vanity metric. Like 1 part of me would have been like, oh shit, I'm working with this big guy. But now I'm like, he's just a little he's not just like I was, and he's doing amazing things, but I get to see him beyond the illusion of the physical person or the identity. And that's something I've never lost, which has really helped me be more in tune, bring that to the world, know myself better, and help other people realize that they're bigger than the physical form, that this is rhythm that's alive inside them. There's a rhythm that they're a part of, and we all get to just bop to our own beat as we bop to the magic of existence, working in, in harmony with the laws of existence, because man cannot change universal law. Man cannot change the waves in the ocean. The wave in the ocean cannot change the other waves. It has to learn how to be in harmony with what is. And if we are in harmony with what is, then I get to bring life to life, not by what I do, but with who I am in every single moment. And when I'm in tune with that, then I will instantly know when I'm out of tune. And if it's my business if it's my leadership, if it's my relationship, if it's my connection with anybody, I'm so in tune with when something is slightly out of tune, I get to bring it back into alignment. And as long as I'm a living, breathing example of that, I can help other people tune into their inner symphony and sing their song through their presence and just share it with the world everywhere they go. Wow.

Wow, Devesh, you are You are a man that just— you always feed my soul. Like, you always open up pathways inside of me that I just don't even know they exist until you start talking about beyond the illusion of the physical form, right? All these things, right, that I really want to delve into. And so, guys, to give you a little bit of context as to the kind of man DaVesh is, right? So we This is our third attempt at recording this podcast today because something that Devesh said earlier in his story was— what was it? It was the container. It was, oh, we try to fit ourselves in containers. So Devesh said, I'm going to be in my office and at this time. Well, then the sound wasn't great. He was cutting in and out. So then he went to another office. The sound wasn't great there. So Devesh is recording this in his car. He didn't even want to go into the office. He was doing that for me. And when he says, try to fit ourselves in a container, that office today, right? Whenever Devesh and I connect on a call, he is walking about the city. He might be in his car. He's not in his office. So I appreciate the authenticity of who you're being in this moment, Devesh. And thank you so much for sharing the story, because now this feels better to you, doesn't it? Just being in your car. Us having a conversation.

Absolutely, you know, and, and thank you. Like, I, I always believe that, um, life is always speaking to you, you know. Life is always speaking to every single little thing, from the person that walked past me, the person that made eye contact, even the person didn't acknowledge me, but their energy that walked past me did something that I could possibly never know, you know. Every single thing in life is always speaking to you, you know. And I just want to thank you for that gift because this morning I learned, you know, I try to force myself in the office, but it's not who I am. It's when I'm moving. There's something about being in the flow and rhythm of life. Even as I'm talking to you, I can see a person walking past my periphery. I can see the tree swaying over there, and I can just— it's like I'm in a symphony. I'm sitting in the orchestra, and I can feel the buzz. I can feel the tingle inside my hands. And the thing is, if I can't feel that, then I'm a watered-down version of myself. You know, the paintbrush— you're the canvas right now, and I've got to be the artist, and I've got to let the paint flow through me. But it's not about me as the artist, it's about me letting through what's coming through onto the canvas. And so we can both be artists together. We can both be artists, we can both be the paintbrush, and we can both be receptive canvases. So we can just paint with color with these beautiful palettes that we've just created, so we can dip into blue, red, green, whatever feels good. You know, and we have to be in spaces that allow us to facilitate the best of what we're now ready to encapsulate and bring forth, because anything less than that is a disservice to the world.

Absolutely. I love how in tune you are. And, and so guys, I met Devesh during a Zoom workshop. Devesh is— it's already Friday for him because he's in Australia, and which I love listening to his accent. I think he's just an amazing accent and voice, but something beyond the sound of your voice or your accent really connects me to you. And for some reason, there's always again, some part of me that goes, I don't really know what that means. But I feel a connection to Devesh from day one. We both said that, right? And so Devesh, what do you think? Like, when you shared the story with the white light coming out, of people's heads, the white beam of light at the Tony Robbins, probably unleash the power or something, right? What do you think it is within Devesh that gives him that power? Because we've had several conversations where I have found myself going, oh, man, I wish I had the intuition Devesh has. Oh, man, I wish I could feel like he feels on that level. How have you cultivated that? Do you think it's a gift or you've worked at that?

Uh, I really think that, um, that's a great question, by the way. And, um, can I just quickly say that you actually do have the same intention that I have, but you have it in your way, you know? You really have it in your way. Your— because intuition, um, you know, is, is being in tune. So I'm just in tune with what I'm in tune with. And I just express it. And you do too in your own way. You know, like we look at these people up on the stage and we're like, man, I wish I could speak like that person. But the thing is, I can't do what you can do. You know, if I tried to do it, then I'm just imposing your values onto myself. And then I'm beating myself up for not being an A-grade version of somebody else whilst I'm being a B-grade version of myself. But what I think, I really think that Everybody can— everybody, look, I, I don't use the word should often, but everybody will massively benefit from learning that we're not just this human experience, you know. And if you want to start small, start looking at past life regression. There's a lot of people— it's backed by science. People have done past life regressions. We know the whole concept of, of, you know, multiple lives, lives between lives. There's books by, you know, Brian Weiss, Michael Newton, Journey of Souls. Um, there's so many, uh, you know, Dolores Cannon. There's so many people that have documented stuff that people couldn't have possibly known about timelines and things that, you know, we forget that we're not— we cannot learn everything that there is to learn in this one lifetime. We're not meant to. If you did, you would go absolutely crazy because there would be too much conflicting information going on in your mind. So the thing is, we're born into this life with one key message. And we think that we have to find the message, but actually the message has chosen us. And if we look back at our life, we'll actually see that our life has been a representation of that message, and our life has simply grown around this one key concept that's shown itself over and over again in different forms. And the way we express that changes, but the heart of it stays the same. And for me, what that is is I feel my role on this place is to connect this depth of infinity inside me and to bring that level of oneness, uh, to the world, to help other people connect to this place inside them. Because here's the thing, it's like dipping in the endless ocean, you know. It's this vast endless ocean that you just dip into. It's this deep abyss. But once you dip into it and you come back out, you bring that presence with you. And when you walk, when you talk, when you're doing everything that you're doing, if it's business, your relationships, that pin drop inside you that you've dropped into spills over into everything else. That's actually my logo, by the way. My logo is a man with a pin drop expanding outwards. So we can either be dictated, we can live life by the expectations of other people, we can live life walking by the expectations of our family, by our generations, by our neighborhood, by the people that we've grown up with, by the people that are influenced when we've been down in the dumps, we are influenced by that. And the thing is, you live in a world where you can't help but be influenced by that. So if we don't find our own inner rhythm and we make that so strong, if we make our own momentum a real living, breathing world inside us, then the momentum on the outside will never override the inner momentum. It's when our own momentum isn't strong is when every time we join the momentum of something else, the momentum of something else overrides us. So I just believe that we get to all be in tune. And that is the single biggest thing that keeps coming back to me. Anytime anything goes astray, it's because I've not been in tune. It's because I've ignored the call of my soul. Anytime I do something that is too structured and it's not rhythmic, that doesn't encapsulate the full palette of colors available, stuff doesn't go right. So I've learned the hard way that this is what I'm here to do. And it's taken me a lot of getting up and falling down for me to actually realize that this is it for me.

Wow. Thank you for sharing that. So when you said the message has chosen us, what went off right in my head was remember 5th grade, right? Which is how I have found my purpose. It was— I had this 5th grade teacher who I had never felt seen, heard, or appreciated or listened to before until 5th grade. And she was like— made me feel special. I felt smart for the first time in my life.. And I remember thinking, oh, I wish she could just be with me like forever. And you know, because I feel so empowered, you know, as a 5th grader, I'm thinking all these, I just want to be around this teacher who made me feel great about myself. And it wasn't until I started coaching and I started working with coaches and I was like, what is my purpose? Right? And my purpose on this earth is to empower and inspire other people to live the highest version of their lives. What? Without settling, Devash. Because that's what she did for me in 5th grade. Like, she made sure I didn't settle. She made sure I knew my worth and what I was here— like, I had something to give and honor. And so for other people who haven't done this type of work that the two of us have done, how can they find their inner rhythm? How can they find that message, what they're here to do, like, on their own? Somebody who's listening, who's now pulled the car over in the parking lot, is going, Yeah, I want to know how to do that. What's your advice to them?

That's a great question. And I am— as you were speaking, there was something that, that was just coming through, which was— sorry, I, I'm just really enjoying this conversation. And like, I can give myself goosebumps on call. Like, I can literally just— doesn't matter where I am, like, within 5 seconds I can tune in and It's this weird thing that happens. It's like a wind blows inside my body, and every time this wind blows, man, I get goosebumps. And I can do it on call, like no matter where I am, what time of the day it is, I can feel this thing just enter. And every single time it just comes through, I can feel like this is rhythm just flowing. And the reason why I'm saying that is because your passion isn't something that you find. Your purpose isn't something that you find. Your purpose is something that you've always lived, but you've just not being aware of what you're already living because it's so covered with the content, with the vanity metrics, with the definitions and the expectations. So here's the tricky thing. You don't find your purpose. When you're walking in the forest and you can't see the path, you don't make the path. You got to just clear the leaves until the path reveals itself. Clarity is an act of omission. It's not stacking on. It's taking away what is not relevant. You know, when everything shit hits the fan, when nothing's going right in that moment, you know what your next move is, but the whole time you've known what it is, but you've ignored it, right?

Yeah.

So true. So ultimately life is going to— here's the thing, like radio waves, where's the music? If I was to ask you, where's the music? Isn't in the radio. It's not in the radio. It's in the air. And not just one set of music, there's different bands and different frequencies and there's different sets of music, but it's based on the circuitry where you tune in and you start transmitting the music, right? But you also have to work on your circuit board, you, to be able to transmute the electrical energy into something that's translatable in real time, right? So the moment you can be in tune with what that thing is, whatever it is, whether you're a— if you just, you know, start following those impulses, start training your capacity to be in tune with yourself. If you're a person that likes adventure, right? Then do you wait once every 6 months, once every 12 months for you to go on an adventure? No. If adventure is a part of your values, then you must experience it every single day. So start your day by having coffee at a different location. Start the day by having a conversation with a person that you wouldn't have. Start the day by wearing a damn good shirt because it makes you feel good. I feel like an adventurer every single time I'm wearing something floral, vibrant, because it makes me feel like who I am on the inside. You know, I want to bring life to life. And I don't just do that when things are going right, when I've got, you know, a big payment or when something's— no, I make time to celebrate life every single day because that's what's important to me. If travel is important to you, once every 2 weeks, Go to a place in your city that you've never been to. Once a month, drive, you know, 1, 2, 3 hours out of your city to a place you've never been to. Start becoming in tune yourself. Start following those little inklings. And as you start experiencing that, it'll start taking shape and it'll start taking form. And then you'll start seeing the rhythm below the content. But if you're too focused on the content, if you're too stuck on trying to find your purpose, you'll never be able to see what you're already living and what life is calling you to.

That is so powerful. And when you say get in tune with yourself, one of the things that, like, you know, with coaching, we have different levels where, you know, we can go level 1, 2, 3, and we can go beyond. But mainly I work on 3 levels. And the first level of getting in tune is, you know, homeostasis. I work with my clients about if you're a 10, that means, you know, things are kind of flowing well, you feel great, you're connecting with people. But sometimes 10 is work. It's like I'm hanging from the rafters at a party, right? So I strive to be 8.5, 9 every day. And so once I know that there's nothing stuck in my body, there's no, you know, no tension, none of that, then I'm where I want to be. The second somebody says something, I have a thought about it, which is, you know, reiterating a belief that I have about that thing or about myself, knocks me out of homeostasis, right? So now I know, oh, that doesn't feel good. Okay, I'm not going to give myself more of that. That's like my check engine light to know I'm not going to feed myself that anymore. I'm not going to go hang out with those people. I'm not going to put myself in this predicament. What is your check engine light?

Great. There's so much stuff that I wanted to— okay, I'll say the thing that's most important. So I'd like to mention two things. One, I want to give you an example of a story. Um, that'll, that'll kind of answer that question. Um, and the second thing that I'll actually mention— actually, I'll tell you the story and then it'll roll into the point that I was going to make. So I spoke to this young guy once, you know, I'm always having random conversations. Like, you'll see, I'm like a ghost on social media. Like, I used to— um, actually, this is a great example too. You know, when I first started, I was like, yeah, I've got to post. And I was doing that, I was posting every day, I was making a video, I had a private group. I was teaching people in the very first year how to replace their income just through, you know, social media, but not through all the fancy bells and whistles, just being real, sharing the message, being an embodiment of it, and having one great conversation at a time, you know. And, and there came a time where I just realized that doing that over time, it forced me to start looking at situations as as posts and this will make good content. And in that moment, I became very prescriptive and I lost my rhythm. And it happened very subtly. It happened over like 2 years because you think, yeah, I've got to do this marketing thing now. I've got to do this. But, you know, we're being directed by people that are very prescriptive. They have a step-by-step thing. But here's the thing. Life is not prescriptive, right? Life is a rhythm, right? So I had a young guy that I spoke to. And, you know, I was speaking to this guy and I asked him like, hey, how you going? And he just said, man, I'm just like, I'm really frustrated. I'm really agitated and I don't know what to do. And it was really weird that this random guy that I was speaking to would share that with me. But that always happens. You know, I just believe it's resonance. People feel it. They just share. Right place, right time. And I asked him what was going on. He's like, man, I can't figure out what I'm meant to do. Like I keep changing these jobs and I just don't feel happy. And I just feel like I'm not where I'm meant to be. I feel like I'm not you know, doing the things I'm meant to be in life, and I'm meant to have my life figured out, and I just feel shit, and I don't know what to do about it. And I related to him because that's exactly the way I felt. Tennies and corporate, hopping from job to job to job. And I felt that. So I said to him, I'm like, great. So here's an example. You don't know what I do, but I told him what I do. And I'm like, look, man, you don't know what I did, but you confided in me because something inside you wanted to speak to me. Even if I'm not being a coach or if I'm not being a mentor, that is who I am. Like, I can't stop being who I've always been. I'm the person that makes people feel more life to life, you know. I help them see more possibility. I see them that, you know, where they are right now is actually the highest version of themselves, but they're where they're playing at. Their content is just— doesn't, doesn't work with them, right? You think, man, I'm limited, I want to be a higher self. No. Right now you have wisdom of the ages inside you, and the way you're navigating through it is something that used to work, but now it's exactly what's holding you back, right? So it's not you. Your intentions are there. We get to just calibrate the circuitry and rewire a couple of little things, but you actually are being your higher self right now. You're just playing it out in a way that doesn't fully serve you. Um, so I asked him, I am who I am no matter what I do. It's not the title that defines me. It's me. And you've always been who you've been no matter what you've done. So let me ask you, who have you always been in your job? I'm like, I've always been the guy that's uplifted people. I've always been the guy that people are like, you know what, I'm having a down day. I just want to be around Devesh, and I want to— he's going to bring life to life. I've always been a guy that's bringing— that's bringing life to life. And as I say that, I got tingles just going all through my body. Like, my hands just like, you know, and that knowing is bigger than anything that anybody says you should do this and this will make you money. No, because this is what I want. What's that for you? And he said to me, I could, I could see something was shifting inside him. Like, you know, we're trained in looking at people's physiology. I can really see stuff. Like, he's not going to give us— I could see it on his arm. I didn't tell him that, but, um, I could see him stare off into the distance and he said, you know what, I've always been the guy that connects people together. He's like, in my last job, I was always the guy, no matter what happened, I was always the guy that people would organize little get-togethers. I'd always be on the committee to uplift people and bring them together and connect different teams and things together. I'm like, okay, what about in your friends group? Have you been that guy for your friends? Do you always organize stuff? He's like, holy shit, yeah, I am. And I said, what about in your job before that? And I'm getting goosebumps, like, I'm actually getting goosebumps, like, you know, um, and, and just to see him light up, like, this guy went from feeling like shit to actually saying yes. That's who I've always been. And what I said to him was, that's who you've always been. You're trying to find yourself, but that's who you've always been. Now let me ask you a question. Who's the person that's making you feel shit right now? He's like, my boss. And so I asked him, who's the person that you want to be like that's an embodiment of success? He's like, my boss. And I'm like, OK, does your boss make you feel connected to yourself? He's like, no, he makes me feel disconnected. Does your boss— connect the other people in the office with each other. He's like, no, in fact, when he's around, people stop connecting and they don't speak out because they're scared of him, right? So I'm like, so you want to be like a guy that's totally the opposite of you. You want to be like the guy that's the opposite of you. Whereas where you'll actually strive is as long as your work is around bringing people together, connecting people. Doesn't it have to be people? It could be mission, causes, ideas. As long as you're being that, doesn't matter what you do. Your soul will be fulfilled. And if you can start coming and operating from that place, the rest of the content will fill itself in. But you've gotta unlearn all the stuff that you've learned that's keeping you stuck and stopping you from dropping in. You, my friend, are a connector. You are born to bring people together and connect ideas, gifts, things that the world needs. And you are doing yourself a disservice by trying to be like your boss, who's the complete opposite of who you are. So I really think that firstly, we need to see beyond what's going on, but we can't do that ourselves. There's so many people that are very prescriptive. You know, if you want to be someone that can help you make more income and help you get to your next vanity metrics, there's so many people that can do that right now. But that's not what life is about, right? There's the spoken metrics, but what about the unspoken stuff? Someone's like, man, I made 7 figures, 8 figures. Okay. But what does that mean? That's like me saying, Yeah, I was 7 hours in the day today. Yeah, I got 8 hours in the day today, you know, or there's a toilet paper shortage. Yeah, I got 5,000 rolls of toilet paper. But then you find out they actually run a hotel with 20,000 people and they're going to run out in the next 2 hours, right? It doesn't mean anything without the rest of it. But we have to start cutting out the vanity metrics that we keep imposing on ourselves and start letting who we really are come through. And we have to spend time there. We have to spend time unlearning and relearning operating from here and As you do that, things that you do on the outside will start becoming more of an extension of who you are on the inside.

Beautiful share. Thank you so much for sharing that story and all of your wisdom. And I— so much of what you're saying resonates with me so deeply, like especially when you're talking about— I keep going back to the container, I keep going back to, you know, the things that— the expectations, you know, because I don't want to use social media for my work. You know, I've worked with coaches who are like, you have to do that. Like, I don't want to be on Facebook anymore because Facebook makes me— well, it doesn't make me. I allow Facebook to steal my joy sometimes. And so I was like, well, then why am I putting myself— then I just, like you said, I find myself going, oh, this will be great to post later. I'm just having moments in life and I go, how can I use that in a post? And so that stopped feeling authentic to me as well. And so I backed away from Facebook especially. And then on Instagram, like today I dropped my podcast, you know, that's going to come out and I'm going to keep doing that because I think people will find value, especially from this episode and all of the episodes, right? But there is something about, you know, fitting into those expectations. And even as a coach, I work with my clients to break out of your own box because you can't read the label from inside the box. All the things, right? And so when you say it on such a different level, I resonate with all of these things and being in tune and what doesn't feel right to me. Like, does it make me want to dance and feel the rhythm? And you know, like you're saying, life is a symphony. And so I feel those times when I feel the pressure and I'm out of sorts. And sometimes in a moment I go, I don't really know what's happening. And then later on I go, I shouldn't have been there. In that moment, I was being someone I didn't want to be. To what? Fit in? To be accepted? Whatever that was. But one thing I'm working on is closing that gap and knowing in the moment that this is where I'm supposed to be. Like you said, that person that walked by and you felt like a presence from him, you know, and it's like you're so in tune and so That's what I'm working on, closing that gap.

Can I just quickly, um, you know, I hate to interject, but I just want to say you're not working on closing the gap. You are closing the gap, and you should have been there because it made you realize that you shouldn't have been there, which is perfect, right? So here's the thing, you're not working at trying to close your gap. You are closing your gap. Close it. In every single living, breathing moment, you are being guided to the places. Just like we've got to experience the hottest day in summer and the coldest day in winter for us to have true appreciation of the spring, right?

Right.

So, you know, you know, the wave in the ocean doesn't say, hey man, I'm too big, or I'm too small, or the tree swaying isn't like, yeah, I'm the little tree, this is the big tree, and I've got to put them on a pedestal. No, it's all a part of the symphony of life.

Yeah, right.

And the other thing I just want to mention, Travia Steward, is that, um, there are artists that don't realize they are artists. And I think we're all artists, you know, and we live in a system that is based on what you should do, what you could do. That, you know, the first— when you see kids, what do you— what do kids do? They run around, they touch, they connect, they explore, they're curious, they want to engage with life. And the first day they're going to school, somebody tells them to sit down, shut up, not say a word. Like, not in so many words, but then you are dictated with a checklist mentality. You are taught a checklist mentality. It doesn't matter what you're doing, you've got to have a grade, and you're only allowed to be celebrated once every 6 months when you get your report card, or when you become first in something, right? But then we start forgetting who we are. And to this day, you might think, well, I'm my own person, but there's certain things where you're not. To this day, you know, on the street, down the road, sitting on the bus, um, you know, going to anywhere, what are people doing? They're sitting there, shitting Sorry, shitting. Well, they are shitting. That was a natural human function. They're sitting down, they're shutting up, and they're not saying a word where the natural human calling is to connect. You know, when you walk past a person in the middle of nowhere and you're both trying really hard to not acknowledge each other and just walk on by, natural instinct is to acknowledge the person. Doesn't it feel nice when someone says hello?

Oh, absolutely. I love that.

Why so hard? Right? To go against what our natural thing is. And you've got to lose yourself to find yourself. But here's the thing, you, everybody right now, the music's in the air and there's opportunities that are shown to every single person to find that thing. And everybody finds it in their own way when they're ready for it. So there's no shoulds or there's no right or wrong. Somebody might live this entire life being really stuck and being screwed, mucked, ducked so that when they leave this life, they can realize, hang on a second, I actually— this is not what I was here for. And their next lifetime, they'll come back as someone who's living the life of an artist or a musician, right? So we don't know. For someone, it might take one year. For someone, it might be a lifelong journey for you. The only thing is, is that we can't make someone else's story ours. We've got to be able to tune in and really just start taking little steps, creating little pockets of experiences that give us the wisdom that comes through, and then start creating and being around other people that can help give it form. And there'll come a point where you'll just know, but you've got to be willing to lose yourself to really let the thing find you.

Beautiful. We will end it there, Devesh. I think that's the title of the episode: Losing Yourself to Find Yourself. Wow. Yeah, I love that. Finding the symphony within. Wow. Devesh, thank you so much. This has been a profound conversation. And I knew it would be because we always have these, right?

I still—

I still—

This is a normal conversation, by the way. Like, this is how we normally talk.

This is exactly how we normally talk. Yeah, it's not like because we're doing a podcast. No, it was like Devesh and I said, hey, Travia, let's hang out. Absolutely, Devesh. And we hit record.

That's exactly what I did today, and I did a little bit more talking than I usually would. And I thank you for, um, for being receptive and letting me ramble.

Yes, I love it. You— I mean, you know, I have mentioned to Devesh that certainly he is a spoken word poet, but he's never done it before. And I know that you guys listening will agree with me because he has this cadence about the way he talks, and you just drop the knowledge, you know, in such a rhythmic— like you said, life is a symphony. When you speak, I feel like it's music coming into me, into my soul.

Yeah, thank you for saying that. That, that's— you know what, I actually— that's what I strive to be. So the fact that you see that in me is amazing. You know, I think there's too many, um, there's too many managers in the world and not enough leaders. There's too much checklists in the world and not enough rhythm. You know, I can show up as polished Devesh. I can show up as systemic Devesh, or I can show up as bop to the beat of the magic of existence and let every single thing that's coming through just come. It's, you know, get out of the way and let it come through me, Devesh. And that's the Devesh that I'd rather be because the world needs a bit more music and we all get to be an embodiment of the symphony inside us So wherever we go, we can dance to our own beat, and we can just let anybody that wants to join in on the song come and join us. We just get to be a walking, talking, living, breathing invitation of what's possible for those that get it. And that's all we have to be.

Um, thank you so much. This has been an absolute pleasure today. Absolute.

Thank you so much. You've really humbled me with the gift of your presence, and I feel so good. And, uh, you know, I'm really happy that we created the type of conversation.

Yes.

That I wish existed in the world. So thank you for holding space for that.

Perfect. Thank you so much for listening to the podcast. If you're finding value in these episodes, I would love it if you could leave a 5-star review. I know I said 5-star, but yeah, why would I want anything less, right? If you could leave a review for the podcast, It helps more people to be able to find it and see it and also, and listen to it. And also, if you know someone else who could find value in these episodes, I would love it if you would share it with them and it helps more people to be able to find the podcast. So thanks again for listening and take care. Peace.