How being eccentric and a scientist makes for a great combination.

And then at school, I would only pay attention in like math or science for the first 10 or 15 minutes, and then I'd get bored. And so I'd get in trouble a lot. So when you get in trouble a lot, you just automatically assume, oh, I'm just not very good at this particular subject. And that, that carried over into high school. When I walk into a room and I'm introduced as Dr. Contreras, Yeah, there's still a good chunk of people that don't believe it, or they probably— I get vetted a little bit more than someone who looks the part. And I have to say though that times are changing because now there's a more diverse group. Like when I walk into those conference rooms, the group is more diverse. There are now more women. Mm-hmm. There are also women of color, and now I just don't feel so alone. Opportunities are given to you sometimes, and you don't identify them as opportunities because they don't come up in the way that you expect them to come up. So, and that's with the Four of Cups reversed.

You're blowing my mind here, girl. Heidi Contreras. Heidi, welcome to the Reinvent You Show. How's it going today?

It's going. Thank you so much for having me. I was actually quite shocked that you invited me.

No, I, you know, don't even be shocked. I find you so intriguing. I do. I do. I just, because of all the things that you've, you've sort of delved into, I find you quite interesting. And I also think you have an awesome story that you can share with my listeners. And so everything is about, you know, I feel like you have reinvented yourself on several different levels, like throughout your life, right?

Oh, that's life. That's my life.

Exactly. So you see, that's why you were a perfect candidate. So, oh, well, thank you. So to begin with, let's talk about— you are a viral vaccinologist with a penchant for the occult, right?

Yes.

So, don't delve into too much detail, just tell us a little bit about who Heidi is today.

Well, this morning I woke up as a scientist with a day, a morning full of meetings in regards to a vaccine that we're developing. And having to be involved in some of the decisions was is quite daunting. But then now I'm home and I'm Heidi the witch. So, but they're both very similar worlds. You know, you both document things that you're doing on that particular day. You figure out in both, in both worlds, you figure out what works best based on these different approaches that you that you attempt.

Nice.

Does that make sense?

Kind of, but we're gonna, we're gonna go really deep in a bit. So, so first I want to talk about your path as a scientist. You know, a lot of people who probably listen to this podcast probably have no idea what it takes to, you know, the steps, the process, your journey. Tell me a little bit about your journey because I know, you know, there was a challenge with, you know, with math and science Tell me how that journey progressed that made you into the person you are today. Like, talk through your postdoc, everything.

Sure. So science— oh, I mean, how far back do we really want to go? Because science was not what I was meant to do.

So the thing about it is, I feel like that is too an example of you reinventing yourself. And so people said, you can't do this.

And you said, right, right. So I wanted, oh gosh, I wanted to be either an architect or a fashion designer growing up. And I was told that I would, I wanted to go to school just to either be a seamstress or a construction worker. And at the time, I know, exactly. And at the time, I didn't realize how sensitive I was, which will come which will be explained later on.

Okay.

Anyway, so I was told that and so I kept trying, I kept trying and then at school I would only pay attention in like math or science for the first 10 or 15 minutes and then I'd get bored and so I'd get in trouble a lot. So when you get in trouble a lot, you just automatically assume, oh, I'm just not very good at this particular subject and that That carried over into high school. In high school, I, which is funny, like growing up in Arizona, well, the formative years in Arizona, I wanted to surf and I wanted to spend as much time in the ocean as possible. So my parents allowed me to do surf camp in San Diego while I was in high school. And I said, I want to just be a part of the ocean for the rest of my life. I'm going to go to school for marine biology and then go move to Australia, work at the Great Barrier Reef and save the reef. In Arizona, there is no true marine— or at Arizona State, which is my alma mater, there is no true marine biology program. So I said, well, cyanobacteria are super important, like, you know, in the valley girl speak, super important. So I'm going to go into microbiology to learn all there is to know about cyanobacteria. And once, uh, you're delving into your undergraduate studies, it's all disease-focused. Luckily, at that time, we were also getting a new, uh, or fresh blood, if you will, um, that were opening up these labs in this beautiful new facility, uh, where they were working on tuberculosis. And I remember I was telling my boyfriend at the time, that's what I want to do. I want to work on a super deadly infectious disease. So I went from marine biology to infectious diseases. And I was never a good student. I could tell you, I was at the top of the bell curve.

But that would be a total lie, right?

Well, no, as a student though, I was, just average, slightly above average at best. Turns out I just had issues in regards to learning in a traditional setting.

Okay.

And that came out after therapy as an adult, that the reason, some of the reasons why I was so bored in class was because I pick things up really quickly. But then I wasn't challenged. So in elementary school and in high school, we all moved at the same pace. So there was no dynamic partitioning, if you will, of, okay, so these kids are really getting it, let's challenge them more so they don't get bored. You know what I mean?

Right, exactly. I know, totally.

Yeah. So, so that was that aspect. So I went from something, a completely creative endeavor to now working on viral vector vaccines that address these issues in regards to the spread of infectious diseases. So that's what I'm doing now. So I went from that to this.

Perfect. So, so how long— so what is the process? So you have an undergrad degree and then you get a master's and then you postdoc?

So for me, I did, well, I did, I did an extended undergrad because I got two undergraduate degrees, and then— but on average it's 4, 4 and a half.

Okay.

And then I did a post-baccalaureate program, which was about 2 years, so that That was in between undergrad and graduate school. Right. Within those 2 years, I strengthened my application, if you will, so then I was accepted into graduate school and to a few graduate schools and I ended up choosing one on the West Coast by the ocean.

Nice. So you can sort of stay close to your family also, right?

Yeah, yep, yep, and still surf, so.

Nice, nice. So whenever you say surf, at first I thought you were saying and still serve, but I was like, no, she's saying surf.

Yes.

Right, right. But you know, I consider what you do service as well. Like I know that you are an employee, you're working with the City of Hope, you know, how rewarding is that work and how do you connect it to your bigger why?

So for me, this is actually, well, no, I can only speak for myself. For me, this is a kind of a dream come true because what I'm doing in lab isn't just this esoteric thing. It isn't just like, oh well, I'm gonna create a thing so eventually it helps people. Like when you write it in grants or in publications, and sure, at the time you believe it, but you don't get to see it. And here I'm working in a lab, but I have the benefit of seeing what it is that we're doing in the laboratory. And then seeing the direct effects in our hospital. Our patients are taking some of these vaccines. Right. So that's the best part. And you also become involved in the manufacturing process. You get to, from this little grain, this little idea, and then it just blows up into, wow, this is going into humans. This is wild. I just can't. That's, that I think for me is the most rewarding and it gives, it fills in that gap of why am I doing this?

Right.

I'm not just stuck in a lab coming up with these ideas. Oh, because I can see that it's helping humans, you know, 2 blocks away.

Absolutely. Oh, that's perfect. So I know you and I have had conversation before that you're, you consider yourself a Mexican, not Hispanic, because you're like, I'm from Mexico, right?

Right.

Right. So, you know, growing up, you're a scientist now. What was that mindset like for you going through your journey? Because when you're a scientist, when I think of a scientist, I think of like older white men.

I still do. And we're still surrounded by that. Right. And I still get that. I didn't mean to cut you off.

No, no, you're good.

Yeah, it's still very much alive, that preconceived notion of what a scientist looks like because When I walk into a room and I'm introduced as Dr. Contreras, yeah, uh, people— there, there's still a, a good chunk of people that don't, that don't believe it, or they, um, probably I get vetted a little bit more, okay, than someone who looks the part, right? And I, I have to say though that times are changing because now there's a more diverse group. Like when I walk into those those conference rooms, the group is more diverse. There are now more women. There are also women of color. And now I just don't feel so alone.

Right.

So, and, and, you know, I'm, I'm an aged millennial, I'm an older millennial. So now, now there are other others that look like me in the conference room. So I'd say there's still, but even within the aging millennials, there's still that pervasive ideas like you don't look like a scientist. Your face is pierced, you know, you— at the time I had pink hair, bright pink hair.

Right, right, right, I get that. How do you balance, like, you know, for the majority of your workday you're a scientist, then you come home and you're doing these, you know, eccentric type things, you know. So let's say when you do walk into that room, how much of your outside life do you bring into your interactions with other scientists? With your professional life? As far as your personality? So, uh, how do I—

so my— I'm not, I'm not a different person. It's, it's a, it's a lot of work. I mean, as someone that has been diagnosed with generalized anxiety disorder and chronic depression, I've realized that trying to compartmentalize parts of my personality is just a lot of work. And it really feeds into the anxiety and then the depression. So it just became easier for me and healthier to just be the same quote-unquote strange Heidi in the workplace. And of course, with, you know, there is a time and a place to joke around, right?

Right, absolutely.

There are social constructs still in place and these rules that one must follow because Because seriousness and rules and reasons, but like, uh, but yeah, no, it's, it's, it's truly the same. And sometimes I do, when things get a little too hectic at work, I do have to excuse myself and retreat in the office and kind of reground and recenter and do a quick meditation. Quick meditation. Yeah. And by that I mean breathing and then just reconnecting with the elements and And people know I am open about it.

Absolutely. I love that. So, yeah, we will talk more about that as well. So, you know, the reason why I asked that question is because I know, you know, because, you know, I am a Coach, so I do a lot of personality work as well.

Sure.

And I am, you know, a Type 1. You know, you combine all these personalities, you know, outgoing, I want to impress others, I want to turn it on when, anytime, right? And it is exhausting, like you said. And so I find it so, you know, cool that you've been able to sort of merge, you know, that whole being together, a little bit from over here, a little bit from over there, to where you are the consistent same person all the time. And that's something actually that I'm still working on. Like, I'm a highly energetic person, but sometimes it's like, oh, holy smokes, I don't need to be a 12 today. Maybe I just need to be an 8, you know. And so finding that balance is really, really important. So, okay, let's talk about the elephant, right? This big COVID. Okay, so now COVID has changed lots of people's lives, right? And I know that you're doing work on COVID-19 and has COVID, has this pandemic affected any of your family members at all?

In terms of the disease, no, thank. Think Source, no? I have— man, I do— I have spoken to my therapist about this. This is how you know that you're kind of still in privilege, because I personally don't know anybody that has been directly affected by COVID. I have one of my close friends, she's at LA LA County USC Hospital, and she tells me these— she tells me these stories of just this influx of patients, mostly our people that are there. And so, I mean, that's difficult. And even though, again, it's not my family, like my blood, it's my people.

Yeah, and it's my people. Yeah.

Yeah, our people, that's right. So, and you think, well, it's, they don't want to wear masks. And that's not true. It's just not true. It's, they need to work. And a lot of these people are essential workers. So that's where it gets me. That's, I guess, as direct as it gets for me.

Right. Okay. So, you know, speaking further on that, what do you think has been the biggest misconception? You know, because you're on social media, We hear all this stuff. We got, you know, probably some right-wingers, you know, fighting against some left-wingers. What do you think has been the biggest misconception, the lie, in dealing with COVID-19 that you really wish, coming from the scientists, people would kind of get a grip?

I wouldn't— I don't know if this is like as pervasive in— well, no, that's not true. I don't think it's been written out in black and white. This isn't going to happen to me. It's that mentality. It's not going to happen to me.

Right.

I don't see it. It's not— it's just not there. It doesn't exist.

They're exaggerating it.

And so, uh, I mean, relating it back to me, the fact that I— but that's the thing though, is, uh, there's also this group of people that they don't see it, but they're constantly anxious about it because it could hit them at any time. Then there's the other blissfully ignorant people— blissfully ignorant in the most loving sense, in that, well, it just won't happen to me because it's— if it would have happened, or if it was meant to happen, it already would have happened, right? So that's— that for me is the biggest misconception because everything else is blatant, right? Like you have this false documentary called— I think it was called Pandemic, uh, with a female researcher that was saying— I can't remember about the ocean having healing powers. Oh, yeah, it was, it was early on in the, in the US pandemic thing where I actually was getting family members sending me videos. Does this have any merit? I, I'm sorry. I know, but I, I validate that you're concerned about this. I acknowledge and not validate. I can acknowledge it, but I can tell you that no, this is ridiculous.

You know, like there was one night, like I like to read the news on my phone, of course, and I usually go to like Yahoo. And there was one time I read an article that's like, oh, don't use your 5G network because the 5G— well, it's not an article, Scientific, but it was something somebody wrote.

Yeah, that's actually— yeah, I, I just can't even— I don't even know how to address that, right? I, I feel like my magic crystals have more of an impact on me than, than 5G. And I don't even believe in magic crystals. But no, but that's the thing also is that we're this huge culture of consumerism in terms of what we just— what we absorb and what we choose to digest. And the word article gets thrown around a lot, especially for the internet, because an article by definition— and not just scientific, right? I mean, things that are on the New York Post or on the LA Times, these are well thought out and researched, right? Written pieces. That are meant to have zero bias. Like they're allowing you to have to use your free will and make a choice. These others will have, and I think this is the most dangerous part, is that they'll have snippets of truth manipulated in such a way that they're presented in a formal manner and so that they are misconstrued as articles. So When I read an article, well, what did you— did you read an article? That's how I ask you. But I love that you said article because that's true. It could have just been titled article.

Right.

Or underneath when in reality someone had a suspicion and read a thing on Quora or whatever that 5G is the devil.

It's so bizarre. Some of the stories that are thrown around. I mean, I'm just amazed by it, you know. So when your family members come to you and say, you know, they're asking about, you know, the healing powers from the water and, you know, what about with, if they came to you and said, you know, Heidi, I just saw that Alyssa Milano who had all the symptoms of COVID and she tested negative twice before, but she's now has tested positive for the antibodies. Then why do I need to get tested if it's not foolproof? What do you say to someone who comes to you with those concerns?

That, that is so difficult because, you know, what is a test going to do for you? That could just mean that at one, that one particular moment you could have just tested negative because your viral titer wasn't high, or maybe there was a defect in the, in the test. Okay, sure. We the best way to move forward is to assume that you have it.

Right.

And of course, this is really harnessing on your altruistic side. It's like, if you believe that you have it, do everything you can to prevent others from having it. But that's not really the behavior that we're adopting. It's how do I protect me from you rather than let me protect you from me. This is why I'm wearing the mask. You wearing a mask isn't going to protect you from me, right? Me wearing the mask is going to give that protection. Does that, does that make sense?

No, that totally makes sense because you're coming from a, from a very selfless point of view, you know? And so, yeah, so I'm not going to go out and spread things, you know, even if I think it, right? So yeah, so absolutely.

So the testing, while I think it's important for reporting and for statistics, and also monitoring people that have been infected. You take that information and what do you do with it? Will you move forward protecting the people that you love, the people in your household? Because now more than ever we have multi-generational households, right? Right. Yeah, that's just how the times are. And also, I mean, if you have to work, if you're an essential worker, if you're called back to work, pretend that you have it and just protect others from your germy germs.

Right. So it should just be a given, especially if you're interacting with like the public.

Sure. Yes. Okay.

Okay. Totally. What's your overall, overall opinion on how you think the CDC and the government has handled this pandemic?

My opinion? Oh, well, okay. So this was our moment, you know, this was our moment. Man, greatest country in the world, we got all of these things going for us. Oh, pandemic? Yeah, we got this. The radical disconnect between leadership and then all of these programs and also once again this idea of it could never happen to us.

Yeah.

Just everything fell apart. Uh, I just— the lack of leadership, without getting too political, and this belief— or no, this inherent distrust in science and scientists. Because you tell me something that is sobering, that is factual, it doesn't make me feel good. So I'm gonna choose, I'm going to carry that bit of information and step it aside and come up with my own reality on how to move forward.

I love that.

Yeah, but that's, but that's how it is.

That's, yeah, and that's our pathetic state.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we now went from the greatest country in the world to probably being the most selfish, right? But that's, you know, that's neither here nor there, right?

If you were going to, like, just— and not being political at all— but if you were going to— let's say someone came to you and said, Heidi, I've got a room with 1,000 people in it right now, and I need you to convey the most important message about science to them right now. What would you convey to that audience?

Oh. What would I convey to that audience about why it's important?

Science. Well, people are mistrusting science right now, right? And they're like, you know, doctors and, you know, and a lot of that's been fed, you know, so there's more gasoline being thrown on the fire. But just, I guess, in defense of science.

We tend to fear that which we don't understand. And as scientists, we have, I have to say, we've done a very poor job at opening up the doors and allowing other people to see, you know, the transparency.

Right.

But transparency in a way that is digestible to the general public. I mean, we used to have a group of people, the science writers, that now I don't, now most science writing is is, I think, marketing. I'm not really sure. But anyway, so there's this demystification of science that we weren't adequate at doing. And so now trying to tell people, okay, so I'm not— I know I'm not explaining this properly because this is a very difficult question. But, you know, the best— okay, so when people got on the bandwagon of non-GMOs, no GMOs, It's like, I want my organic carrots. Sure. What color are non-GMO carrots? They're not orange. Oh, exactly. So, so what do you think? Like when we say GMO, do you think that we get a leaf and we just inject it with stuff? And I mean, no, it's, it's bees do it. Bees genetically modify plants. I mean, so what is it like? What is it? And I move it back to how inadequately science was taught in the classroom when we were kids. Kids, kids, we're sponges. We're sponges, you know, we're— the world is magical. We want to learn all the things, want to get our hands dirty. And that's how science needs to be taught. Right? It's, it's a craft. It's creative. It's artistic. And, and to allow the public to see how it is that science is conducted and how ethical we— how we have all of these, um, we have these, uh, accountabilities that we have that we're held accountable to the— to— we have to be ethical. I can't words right now, so bear with me. Oh, we, we have to conduct science and research in an ethical manner to improve the greater body of knowledge and to help, you know, for the greater good.

Right.

And I— people— and so it is not understood how it is that we carry about just a regular experiment. And when you don't know, you fill in those gaps. And movies also don't help, you know, you fill in the gaps, you make it up with whatever narrative you want. People don't understand 5G. What are they like? Do they understand how 5G works? I don't understand how that technology works. I mean, I have an idea, but I could tell you that I'm not going to fill in those gaps that that brought COVID. Yeah, once those towers got up, COVID. Yeah, that's just not how it is. So, uh, science is about discovery. It isn't, uh, it's not foolproof. We're always learning, just as it's It's kind of like the earth trying to self-discover itself and you are trying to self-discover yourself. Like, that's science. Yeah, at least that's the way I see it. I know that's probably not in a very cute, succinct way, but that's just— but I've never been asked that question. I would have to think about it. I want to journal it after.

Yeah. Oh, nice, nice. I'm a fan of journaling as well. You know, I reflect on if I were not married to a scientist, I would not I don't know. I don't know what my opinion would be, but I know that I know a whole lot more because I am educated about it at home as well, right? And so when we're thinking about like COVID-19, because COVID is a— it's a virus, right? Okay. So, you know, again, clearing up misconceptions. So when— is it just from like you go in there and you touch something someone else has touch, and then there's these live little viruses, like little bugs crawling up somewhere, and then you touch your face, and then, like, how does that transmit? Is it that you have to actually poke in your eye, poke in your nose? How does it get into the places where it infects your body?

So we say in aerosols. So it will be in aerosols, air, like spits, like spittle. So when you're talking or coughing or screaming, you spit. And so when you get enough virus internalized, whether it be through your nose or your throat or your mouth, sometimes— I mean, it's not very clear. I haven't seen any— I mean, I haven't seen— not saying that it doesn't exist, but I haven't seen any research saying necessarily through your eye. But as long as it goes into the airway, And then you can spread, but it also depends on the amount of virus that you're being exposed to, the length of time that you're being exposed to it. So, and there was an idea about fomites. So fomites, like if you, you're, if they can exist, apparently there was a study early on that they could be stable for a few days. I can't quite remember. If you touch a surface and then you touch your mouth, The idea was is that you can probably get enough virus to go through and as you inhale, you get it into your trachea or through the airways. Although most of it though, the transmission that I've, from the cases that I've read about and heard about that I can say, okay, yeah, that's a vehicle of transmission is just by talking and sharing and communicating and spittle. Okay, very similar to tuberculosis.

Okay, okay, you know, yeah, well, I don't know a whole lot, but I have found so much enjoyment. And like, I heard somebody describing it, you know, it's got— it's like, it's almost like it's got these, these arms and legs, and it comes and fools the mother cell into thinking it's like it's an imposter, and it gets in there and then does work, does bad things to that home cell.

Well, I mean, kind of. So, I mean, I can tell you if you want to go into that kind of detail, not too technical, but—

Right, right.

So coronaviruses get their name from these surface proteins on the virus surface, and we call them spike, and they look like crowns. If you look at electron EM images or cryo-EM images of virions, live virions, you can see that they're studded with these crowns. And it's those crown-like proteins, we call them spike protein. Actually, a lot of the new vaccines that are coming out are using that spike protein to vaccinate humans. Anyway, so what this does, it's this protein on the surface of the virus attaches to a cell surface receptor called the angiotensin II. So it's ACE2. It's the ACE2. I'm sure you've probably heard about it. So it binds to ACE2 via this receptor binding domain within the spike proteins, crown-like protein. So once it binds, it induces this huge shape change so that the top part, the part that bound to the human cell receptor, the ACE2 receptor, stays bound, but then the other half kind of It's kind of hard to explain with hands, but it hairpins and it pinches the cell membrane with the viral membrane so that we get fusion. So that now the virus can release its genetic content and it can start making or amplifying its— or creating proteins from its genetic components.

Right.

I'm trying to not be so technical right now.

I'm sorry. No, you know, it shows you how non-science I am because you're blowing my mind, but I love it. Diffusion, that makes so much sense to me.

So it fuses and so it releases its content. So now it's making this machinery to not only fool your immune system that it is non-self, that it's saying, "Don't attack me. I'm harmless," but also hijacking parts of your machinery so that your cells can make more viral proteins so that it can come out and release bud out, and you now are propagating virus, your little virus machine.

Wow, thank you for that. Huh, yeah, I like that. Okay, now we're going to transition to— yeah, because yeah, we've gotten— we've definitely gotten our feel on science, and thank you so much for that because it just, you know, I know I for one, like when I took science in high school, I wanted to deliver a speech about it, you know. I didn't want to just memorize and take a test. I wanted to act it out. So what you just did, like, falls right into my wheelhouse.

Okay, great. Even though, like, I don't, I don't know how to—

Oh yeah, the whole kinesthetic, tactile. I love it, love it, love it, love it. So yeah, so now I really want to talk more about Heidi, right? So generally, there are several big pivotal moments in a person's life that shapes the person they are today. What were a couple of those really big pivotal moments that shaped who you are?

Sure. Hmm. Well, when I decided to be serious about going to school and pursuing a higher degree in science was I was working at, I don't know if anyone remembers, Lerner New York and Paradise Valley Mall. It was during a time where I was on hiatus from school, from undergrad. And it was still a point where I was like, I don't know if I really want to go back. Do I really need to go back to school? So I was working the floor and I was cleaning the fitting rooms and the bottom of the fitting room, I saw a dirty tampon. Oh. And that was not the first time I had seen people change. Yeah, well, I mean, I hadn't physically seen, like with my eyes seen people change their tampoons, but I would see them on the floor or like their soiled maxi pads and I said to myself, "I can't do this anymore. Like I can't do this." And so that was one moment. Another moment before that, I was around 10 years old. I was around 10 years old and it was The moment I decided, I had this fascination with death, and the reason I had this fascination was because it was the first time I had considered committing suicide at the age of 10. And the third time was more recently, where— that was 3 years ago, where I was planning my suicide. And so that moment was one of the worst but also the best moments in my life because I had never wanted to live as much as I did. And I remember picking up the phone and calling my best friend and telling her, she was in San Francisco, I told her I need help and hearing her so worried, so concerned made me realize that I think I needed to be here more than I needed to just kind of fade away from people's lives. Oh, it's still— I'm not crying because I'm sad. I'm actually crying because it was, um, I didn't realize how much I meant to people.

Oh God, yeah.

So, um, and it's, uh, from that moment on, and I've told people this, um, the darkness of death never felt as comfortable as from that moment on. Like, I've never wanted to just— it just was. And now, from that moment, all I wanted to do was live, right?

So, oh my goodness, Heidi, thank you so much for sharing that. Thank you. I love— I mean, you just are such an open book, and the level of vulnerability, thank you for that. So I would like to talk a little bit more about that because I know that, you know, I just left the classroom a few months ago And I know that, you know, you've suffered with depression and anxiety and, you know, suicidal thoughts, or, you know, however you categorize that. But I know I, as a high school teacher, there are a lot of high school students, there are a lot of junior high students, there are family members who are dealing with such a severe, you know, bout of depression How do you help them get out of that? Someone who has walked through that path and who has, you know, not only embraced life today, what would you tell someone who is struggling? Maybe they're listening right now.

Please don't give up on yourself. No one has given up on you. That's really it.

Yeah.

Because it's constantly reminding yourself about that, right? That no one has given up on you. Please don't give up on yourself, right?

So it's— and for other people who are like, you know, my cousin is, you know, so would it be that we would just keep reinforcing how valuable they are to our lives as far as if we had a friend or— is that too much?

It's a very unique journey, so I tread lightly on this topic because I have actually been asked by many people, how do I deal with my little brother who has suicidal ideation? We all suffer at varying degrees. Some people, I, and this has been a very controversial topic where I don't understand. I only understand how dark the darkness was for me and it got me to that point. I don't know how bad it is for others that anything I can say can convince them otherwise.

Right.

So It's so difficult. The best thing I can say is to just talk to someone and ask them for help. There is a way out. There is medical support for you. You are not alone. And being okay to talk about it, you would be shocked how many people have been on this journey as well. I was— I felt like I was weird when I said that the first time I thought seriously about committing suicide was at the age of 10. I didn't know that was weird. Neither do other people and so they don't talk about it and also, so me being open and telling people, "Oh, I've been diagnosed with this. I've been diagnosed with that." "Oh, oh wait, you thought that too at the age of 12 or 10 or 17? Oh my god, so did I. I thought I was alone in this." And so then we get to talk I'm talking and that, well, that's helped some people. I've also, well, yeah, but anyway, yeah, so that's what's been helping. I'm sorry, I don't have a very poetic way of, you know, trying to help someone being able to get out of that situation because I don't know how hard it is for that person. I only know how hard it was for me. And that whatever powers that be came in and said, do not give up on yourself, go ask for help.

Yeah, I love that.

That was wild.

Wow. And I still remember when you told us, you know, that you had gone through that. And when you just shared a few minutes ago that you had no idea, like your best friend that you call, you had no idea how much you meant to her. And so that is so touching. This, you know, it goes back to the core belief of, you know, my top values are love and connection. And I believe that when we connect and we care about one another and we serve from that place of being selfless, it's important to maintain those relationships, you know, to let people know exactly how you feel about them so that, you know, they don't wonder. They don't have, you know, like, "Oh, I don't know if she loves me. I don't know how she feels about me." And so I try to make a practice. It comes across as real, you know, people are like, "What? What's going on? You know, you're giving away all your stuff. You know what?" It's like, "I just want you to know you mean a lot to me." "Why?" You know?

Right!

Why don't you try—

like, but that has more to do about them than it does with you, which is what I was trying to realize. Clearly. Right? Like I'm not in the business of mind reading. Okay. That's my side hustle, but I'm just kidding. I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm not in the business of mind reading. So I'm just going to ask you, like, do you like me or not?

Exactly.

Or what did you think about that article I wrote the other day?

5G. Right, right. 5G.

It's your article.

It's a well-researched article.

Yeah. It's in Science.

Oh my goodness. Wow. So I really want to go back to your fascination with death. Tell me a little bit about that. Is there still a fascination? Is that something you've sort of kind of moved on from?

No, uh, so I'm still fascinated with death in a very different way.

Okay.

Um, so my practice has, uh, evolved, you know, from you know, creating circle or meditating, performing ritual, to reconnecting with my ancestors. So I'm talking about like even my father who passed away, which is funny because you asked me— I'm gonna continue on this topic, but earlier you asked me what was another turning point in your life. Yeah, you would think it would be the death of my father, which was absolutely devastating, but actually that was while it's still painful to this day, I kind of had been mourning his death for a year because we knew his health was slowly deteriorating. But I had been grieving him, and so during that year, I would talk to him and I would tell him all the things. And the whole year, I kept telling him, "Dad, it's okay." we're gonna be okay, you know? So it was a mutual comforting kind of thing, like, are you gonna be okay? Yes, Dad, we're gonna be, we're gonna be, you did great, you know? So that was a year. So again, so, so, so kind of still maintaining contact. Oh, you're making me cry. My therapist at $300 an hour doesn't make me cry.

Oh wow.

I'm joking, I actually don't know. I'm very fortunate to have insurance, so insurance covers it. This is why everyone should have health insurance.

Yes!

Exactly, exactly, because I can't afford that. Anyway, so fascination with death is a way of not only connecting with my dad, but also connecting with his side of the family and connecting with a part of myself that I know has been lost. Since pursuing science. There was a large part of myself that I did lose in the pursuit of where I am today. A lot of identity, of suppression of my craft, because I have been practicing witchcraft since 2004. And I remember in grad school school, pushing it down like, no, this is silly, Heidi.

Pushing down the witchcraft?

Yeah, hiding it even. Just releasing it, letting it go. But the thing is, is that witchcraft, it isn't just this like, oh, gothy thing that someone wants to do. Actually, it's part of my family. So while on my father's side, they were Catholics, like Mexican Catholics, you know, pomp and circumstance ceremony, up and down. Yeah, exactly. The frankincense and the myrrh, you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, so while there was all of that, there was also veneration for the dead and also the saints, kind of the way that— it's really funny because when I'll go see some of my other friends who have their pagan altars, and it's no different from altars that some people in my family will have altars for their preferred saint. Okay, so, um, yeah, go ahead.

Well, so I want you to sort of define witchcraft for me, because when I think of witchcraft, I, you know, synonyms are like voodoo, always like my— I have negative connotations and I go, oh, that's the devil, that's Satan. Oh my goodness, Heidi, what's going on here? Are you conjuring up Lucifer? That's exactly— but that shows my lack of knowledge in that area. So I would love to learn.

There is— that's— you were asking some pretty loaded questions that I'm trying to really just kind of keep. So, uh, what is witchcraft? It's a lot of things. It's a very unique practice to the individual. Um, there are some theistic witches, there's some atheistic witches. I'm of the atheist variety. So while I'm a Hecate devotee, I don't worship her. I actually reflect on some of her epithets or some of her essences, if you will, personality traits, and kind of strive to be that. Like, I want to be guardian and guide and a gatekeeper. Those are her three epithets.

Yeah.

And I want to be that for others. I want to guide people out of their darkness. She is She guides with her light, with her fire, guides people through the darkness. In the metaphor— or not metaphor, in the myth— she's the one that helps Persephone, guides Persephone through between the underworld and the world. And Demeter— and she also, I believe she also helped Demeter too. No, was it Demeter, her mother? I can't remember, I'm terrible. But Persephone, anyway. But that's how we have the seasons. Seasons. Hecate, light, season.

Okay, okay.

Anyway, so, so, uh, one of the best though, uh, one of the best definitions that I had about, or that I had ever read about, uh, witchcraft was, uh, this, uh, uh, writer, pagan writer. Her name is Margot Adler. She is— it has a very academic approach in regards to writing about witchcraft. In her book, uh, Drawing Down the Moon, uh, she writes Witchcraft is a religion deep-rooted in rebellion. So anything that we're told that we're supposed to do, we don't. So we morph it into whatever feels in the greatest alignment to who we are and serves our greatest and highest good. Now there's another idea of witchcraft which has been also written about in a lot of academic essays, or in a few, not a lot, but in a few academic essays where witchcraft was attributed or was a way to, was labeled as like a negative thing to suppress women from really garnering power in groups. So like the term gossip, right? So gossip became, oh, a term to describe women that just came together and spent time together. Okay, that was it. But the— but it was a way to just keep them from being able to get enough power to have any control in their village or their town. Does that make sense?

Yeah.

So then they would— people would say like, oh, coven. So to suppress them, they'd be like, you're a witch. You're in a coven, you practice witchcraft because you, you did a thing, you took it upon yourself to do a thing and it happened.

Yeah, The Crucible, Salem Witch— the witchcraft.

Yeah, yeah, Salem Witch Trials. So that's my best definition of witchcraft.

Okay, do you think like with your fascination in death, like, like, you know, would you say you can like— do you communicate like with your dad? Is that— no, like, what is that like?

Well, okay, so, uh, therapeutically I communicate with my dad. Dad, I'm having a really hard time, you know, things like that.

I do that with my mom.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, do we know that they're there? We don't know. We, we want to believe that they're right, right? Because we want to believe that the soul exists and energy, and we want to believe those things. Um, while the dead seems terrifying because Well, what happens after this terrestrial, this 3D existence? Like, what happens? And there's no— I mean, arguably there's proof. I'm of the belief that— I don't know, I don't know. I mean, power suggestion. I'm fascinated with what I don't understand.

Okay.

Which is also why I'm a scientist.

Mm-hmm.

So The idea that I— while I don't know what happens after this life, I don't know where my dad is, he is my best, my closest connection to death. Does that kind of make sense? It's— I can't touch it, I can't, I can't, but my dad was so— I was so close to my father that he is my closest tie to death. And so me kind of honoring his memory and reconnecting with my ancestors or my grandmother and learning about them and understanding them is my closest connection to death.

Okay.

And to my past and my identity.

Okay, which are all sort of surfacing, like, are you— have you kind of, you know, come to terms with the part that you were hiding more? Is that all reconciled now?

It's a lot of healing. I mean, I'm even— I mean, I'm still healing Catholicism. For the most part, I've healed. I don't resent it, but I'm healing it as I'm reintroducing elements of it into my life. Does that make sense?

Yeah, it does. It makes total sense. Yeah. So I know that you also— like, is there a name? Like, I know, like, You are a certified yoga instructor, which makes you a yogi, right? So what does it make you if you, you know, use tarot cards? Is there a special like High Priestess name for that?

Uh, depends. So there are, um, you would be an initiate or you would be, you would go through ritual to be a High Priestess if you were, if you were in coven or if you were in a more organized group.

Okay.

Does that make sense?

I find every bit of this stuff that you've been sharing so fascinating.

Thank you.

I really do.

I feel, I have to admit that I feel a little guilty because I feel like I jump around a lot, but that's because you're asking me so many questions. I don't have a one-word answer for you. Of course, no. And I'm trying not to get too deep into it.

Yeah, no, I'm totally fascinated. The only thing that's missing is I'm not having a beer right now, which would be so incredible.

Oh, where is your beer?

Well, I'm going through 2 months of not drinking, so yeah, that's great. Yeah, yeah, every now and then I can have some discipline. Okay, it's discipline season right now. Okay.

Oh, right.

Yeah. So let's talk about your tarot cards. What exactly do you do with them? Like, the only thing that I know of is like, you know, we go down to the French Quarter and it's like, oh, you know, here are the cards, let me look at the cards, let me read your future. Like, one time when Shelley and I were there, they were like, they were reading our lifeline on our hands, and Shelley's just long, and the lady goes, oh, you're gonna outlive everybody, you have such a long lifeline. She looked at mine, she goes, wait, is Shelley left-handed? No, she's right-handed.

Hmm, I don't know. I mean, I'm not, I'm not into palmistry either. I'm a very skeptical witch. On Reddit, there's a group of us that we call them sass witches. Which are like skeptic, atheist, science. Yeah, but anyway, yeah, so, um, yeah, go ahead.

So how do you use your tarot cards?

Uh, I, I use them in therapy quite a bit when something— what we do, we call shadow work. So shadow work and therapy, they go hand in hand. So it is surfacing all that is dark and all that is repressed, and snippets of that darkness come out when let's say you see someone that you don't like or they do something, yeah, you see that, right? You see it and you're like, I don't like that person. Why? Because he does this.

Right.

Well, I think, I believe it was Carl Jung that would say things we don't like in others are shadows of our disowned selves.

Absolutely, yes, I heard that.

Yeah, so in therapy, like, you know, you sit there and you're just like, oh yeah, I've had this thing carrying with me for, X amount of years, but that one thing that you casually brought up in therapy, in a therapy session like 4 months ago, comes up when you're like, "Mm, I don't like the cut of his jib." Why? "I don't like the way that he wears his tie." Why? "It's off-centered." Ah, so you don't like the fact that his tie is off-centered because— I mean, this is me personally, this is just like my thing. Is because you have an issue with perfection. Yeah, like I have an issue with perfect—

like, I—

but it's not, it's not that I'm, you know, that everyone has to be perfect. It's like I know that I'm human. It's like in— I'm incapable of perfection, right? Because I'm a human being.

You're imperfect. And it's right.

And, and I I just grew up striving to be perfect.

Okay.

And so that is an insecurity that I'm dealing with. So that's part of shadow work, right? Because that's something that you do.

Right.

How often would you admit, I have a problem with not being perfect?

Of course. But is that because you pulled a card?

Sometimes. Oh. Sometimes.

So what is the motivation for pulling the card to begin with?

Okay, so sometimes, It's like, uh, you need guidance. Like, you already know, so the cards are so weird. This is, this is a very difficult relationship that I have with the cards because we use them as tools. So I'll pull a card and like, okay, so like for example right now, uh, wait, let me just— because I'm gonna pull a card.

Okay.

May your power, blessing, and favor descend upon this deck so that I may understand all that is hidden and all that is true. Demote it be. Okay, so for now I'm just gonna say, okay, what, what is something that I it would serve me to focus on the rest of the evening. So I'm going to draw the Hierophant. So Hierophant upright, it's a Major Arcana card. It would be number 5. So for me, this card represents tradition, probably school. So something I need to focus on, which is funny. I do need to read a bunch of papers because I'm cleaning up. So I'm writing a grant and cleaning up a grant right now. So I want to see if I can add a little few more references. So for me, it's like a focus on work. Like, but, but in the more traditional sense, some people would take this as a church or spiritual practice. You could see it's a pyramid, it's, it's a pyramid with an entry. It looks somewhat like a temple and the all-seeing eye. This is from the Mystic Mondays tarot deck. Um, so tradition, sometimes institution. For me, I took it as like work for the institution. We call City of Hope the institution. OK, so this is where I was drawn to. And so some people would be like, OK, well, tell me more about, about this institution. Like, what, what about it? What do I need to think on? Let's ask for some clarity. So I'll ask for clarity. Ah, so I got Justice reversed and I got Princess of Cups upright. So the way I would interpret this is with Justice reversed, it's like I'm feeling that there's an unfairness going around, which is true because I'm really upset about the parking situation. So they're having all of the employees, non-executives, non-VPs or presidents or CEOs. We're moving off-site, so they're going to shuttle us in, in the time of COVID mind you. So, and we're not even eligible to buy a parking spot or to rent a parking spot. We're not eligible because we're peons, right? So, wow, this is the injustice. Okay, cut Princess of the— or in most decks would be the Page of Cups. In this case, it's the Princess of Cups. Um, I see this card is, uh, like, just trust yourself. Trust your intuition, trust that your feelings are correct, and just have the confidence that you can move forward. You can just keep going forward. So these are the things that I need. So feeling about work right now, but also this is really hearkening on to my self-esteem issues. Now, how did these cards know what I was— they don't know. They don't know what I'm going through. My interpretation of them is a way of going in, diving deep in, and it's, it's like something that's helping me. It's assisting me to focus on the thing that I've been struggling to work with. Does that make sense?

Yeah, and is that, is that something like that you've been trained to do? Is there a certain kind of training to learn how to read tarot cards?

No, because when I learned, I was still in the, what we call the broom closet. So, um, I was in the broom closet, so I was 7 Minutes in Heaven.

Why the broom closet? I learned that from my high school students.

No, no, no, I meant because, uh, witches have brooms. We travel in brooms.

Oh, okay, okay. I'm like, what were you doing in that closet, Heidi?

PG-13.

Yeah, okay, got it.

We're in the broom closet because I didn't come out of the broom closet. I was a witch and I just stayed in the broom closet. That's where I keep my purse.

Yeah, anyway, okay, okay, perfect.

Okay, I was self-taught.

Okay, so if I came to you, what— why would I come to you? Like, if— like, if I— like, would I come with something that I wanted guidance on? Would I come with an issue? Okay, yeah.

So, um, what most— one of the most common misconceptions— again, we don't understand. What we don't understand, we fear. So this is not of the devil. This is just a tool. Yeah, for introspection. To help pull out some of the deep down secrets that you have.

Okay.

Okay.

So, um, that sounds scary, deep down secrets.

Well, I mean, but secrets, I mean, no one is gonna think they're interesting. Like, how you knowing that I have this penchant, or not this one, this obsession with perfection, like, why would you care? Just like, right, you're weird. I know, I'm working on it. But, um, uh, what was that? I'm sorry, I've lost— I've—

like, if I would, would I come to you? Oh.

So, um, a lot of people do come for guidance. Oh, that's where I was going. Misconception, uh, regards to the tarot is that it can tell your future. It cannot tell your future. That would be stripping away your power to choose, your ability to choose. That is a gift. Our free will is a gift that we don't really appreciate very much. And so, but what this is, is a tool to help you present possible options. Most of the time for the self, it's difficult because we even— the cards have their meanings, but we still choose to interpret them however we in our lizard brains want.

Okay.

Does that make sense?

Yeah, lizard brains, yeah.

Yeah, so I mean, sometimes like, oh, what does my love life look like? Okay, I don't know. But I can ask the cards to give me an idea and I can communicate that to you and then we have a discussion. I'm obviously by no means a therapist or a counselor or anything like that, but it is a good way to get people to start thinking and kind of work their way into, starting to work their way into a space where they feel that they're truly in alignment with themselves. Does that make sense?

Yeah, let's do a thing.

Yeah, let's do a thing.

I want to do a thing. Okay, okay. Do you ask me questions? What do we do?

You can ask me questions. So I do a 5-card spread, okay, where on the top it'll be the overall, um, and then on the left it'll be, uh, your most recent past Center is what you're currently experiencing. OK. And this is where it gets kind of strange. So on the right for me, it would be your most likely outcome if we lived in a vacuum and nothing ever changed. So if you like this particular way that which you're operating, then your action advice card could give you some ideas to— well, do you like your outcome? Well, you can change it. And this is the advice that it's giving you. Or if you like what's coming, or what you— if we lived in a vacuum and you made no choices, if you like what the next step would be, then take that action that it's suggesting you do. Does that make sense? Excuse me.

Yes, yes, yes.

Okay, so since I did a reading for myself, really quickly, let me, uh, I'm gonna— it's gonna take a minute, sorry.

Okay.

Trey, may this reading bring you all the answers you seek with whatever higher power you believe in, with good to all involved and harm to none. Amen. All right, do you have a white bird? Like a white bird or even a white like Not quite a dove. I don't know why I'm seeing just a bird, just seabirds. That's it. Sometimes, like, I have to say that, not that I necessarily believe in that stuff, but like, sometimes, like, I get little images that pop up and maybe that means something to someone, but I don't know.

Huh. I don't have a white bird, but the first thing that came to mind was my mom and my sister on their flower— because I have memory boxes now. Now I want to get up and go look and go Is there a white dove in there? You know, fake one like that came with the flowers. Yeah. So I'm like, maybe.

Oh, that's crazy.

Maybe. Yeah.

See, already, I don't know, but it's already getting you to start thinking about it, right?

Yeah, right.

Yeah, that's the power of the craft. Like, it doesn't have to— it's just getting you to start thinking. You're already accessing— you're already accessing memories, feelings.

Yeah, I am.

So, so in your overall, you have the Hermit reversed. So I'm just going to draw the cards. So in your overall, you have the Hermit reversed. So this could be a couple of things. So either you're in an avoidance or giving too much of yourself, putting too much of yourself out there, unable to get some rest. But that could also be a reflection of something that we just talked about at the top of the hour. Right. So that's Hermit reversed. Usually when the Hermit is upright, it's a— it's like collective, like, I just want to recollect my thoughts, recharge. I just want to relax. That's so true. Is that what you're feeling right now?

Oh, absolutely. The last 2 or 3 days, yeah.

And I'll send you a picture too so that you can individually look up the card meanings to see what resonates for you.

This—

you see what I mean already, how it's a tool? Yeah, in your recent past you have the Two of Wands reversed. So were you feeling stuck, like unable to move forward, unable to see the horizon, unable to— it looks like maybe there's a little bit of disappointment in your— maybe like travel plans were canceled. I don't know, but there's something that's like cutting short.

They were totally canceled. Yeah, because of COVID We were going to San Diego. Oh, at first we were going to Puerto Vallarta and then San Diego. We downsized and then that was cut short. So with the Flagstaff.

And when were you gonna tell me you were gonna come to California?

Well, when we were gonna come, because— but Gavin Newsom said no cigar to that, so he closed it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyway, so, uh, not being able to see forward, off to the horizon, not being able to journey. So, but that could also mean, uh, that you could be stuck.

You're feeling a little bit in my business. Yeah. And my coaching.

This is how you— in your recent past, uh, currently you're learning moderation. You got the Temperance upright, which is also interesting. I usually get this with people trying to cut back on their drinking. Um, that's interesting. But again, that could also be something that you told me. But is there some other— it looks like there might be some other balance that you're trying to obtain in your life, maybe, uh, a more well-rounded schedule. Yeah, yeah, yeah, trying to— yeah, it's just, just trying to keep everything kind of measured. Like, okay, so I have to balance this one, this one workload that's like really, really heavy, but also it's comparable— this one massive task is comparable to like 40 smaller tasks. Yeah, so how do I balance these? So that's where you're currently right now. Okay. And then you have the Six of Pentacles upright. So in your coming up, in your most likely outcome, if we lived in a vacuum and you didn't move forward at all— or not forward, but if you didn't make any decisions. So the way I interpret this card, me personally, is your ability to share, to give. But the thing is, is that you're in a you're kind of hoping to be in a recharging state. And the reason I say that is because in your action advice card, it's actually more advice, it's you're experiencing the Five of Pentacles, which is a little bit of a hardship. Pentacles are usually signifying work or money, but I'm feeling like in this case, it's your internal resources. Like you're feeling a little bankrupt in resources And so that is somewhat weighing on you. You're less giving of your energy, less giving of your time. Maybe you're— unless someone's asking you for money, but you're— most of it is just you not having enough resources to be able— you don't have the bandwidth currently. But it's— but through this, through this lesson of Temperance, through what you're experiencing right now, you trying to balance it out is going to help you get to the Six of Pentacles where you're able to share, where you're able to be a little bit more giving. Okay, does that make sense?

Makes total sense.

Yeah, really?

No, I've always—

I've been doing this for years and I'll tell you, I'll tell you.

You want me to tell you why it makes sense?

Do you want me to wait before you do? Oh yeah, okay. Ask any more clarifying questions because I can expand on things. Don't tell me details yet. I wanna—

okay, you know What should— how specific can I ask?

Okay, so that's— you immediately, you brought up an excellent point. Should, uh, is definitely discouraged because remember, we don't want to strip away your ability to choose, okay? Because you have free will. But we can ask, what is your greatest and highest good? If I choose this path, um, what is the most likely outcome? If I choose this other path, What is the most likely outcome? You now have options that are presented to you. You get to make a quote unquote informed decision in regards of how to move, how to move forward.

Okay. So if I said, what is the path that I should travel for my next steps? Is that too vague in my business? No.

Okay.

So, uh, what is, uh, what's my next action steps?

Okay. So, What are some advice— can we get some advice for her next step in regards to her business? You're definitely feeling insecure, a little overwhelmed with options. There are a lot of options available to you for sure. You know, you're stuck in this place where you're burning the midnight oil, but you're feeling like it's all hard work to no avail. The cards— sometimes the cards can bring up some really interesting things before it gets me to the real message. So that— and I say that because I got the Princess of Cups reversed, which is the card that we kept— came up earlier. I think that was actually for me, the prince of feeling insecure, but also the Seven of Cups upright. Okay, uh, so this is a card of like, uh, illusions, but sometimes there are so many options it's overwhelming, and you got it reversed. And then this card is the Eight of Pentacles. So this is what my burning the midnight oil, perfecting the craft. You had it upside down. So the way that I interpret this card is you're working, working, working, working, working so hard, but there's just no— it's fruitless. Like, you're feeling that it's fruitless, that it's not giving something tangible. So let's see, what is some advice? So he says working hard. It's almost like you're feeling unfair. Go— oh, okay, okay. There's a— you may believe that there is a traditional path, like I've been doing X, Y, and Z, it should be working this way. It doesn't work like that for you. Okay, so you— it is advised to you to be a little bit of a rebel, kind of break the rules a little bit. You got Hierophant reversed. So break away from tradition. Consider a non-traditional approach. Have you considered talking to people about the injustices— this is gonna sound crazy, but injustices that they face in the LGBTQ community?

Yeah.

Because that's— that's what I mean, like, for an episode or for an approach, because that's a lot. That's a lot of energy that's coming up. That's, um— oh my god, that seems like it's something that you might want to—

what is it?

You don't— you're very timid about this because you know that it's touch and go, and it could also be very triggering.

Yeah, all of it.

But the thing is, these voices need to, these voices need to come out. These messages need to be said. Remember I said earlier about speaking out and realizing that there are people out there that also, or other people just hearing me talk, like, yeah, I went through that. Yeah, that was totally my story. Holy cow. Yeah, that's, yeah, this is, this is your voice. This is your opportunity in your vehicle. PG-13.

Holy shit, Heidi! Oh man.

In alignment, the Two of Cups. So usually this is a romance card, new beginning. No, but this is in alignment. So this is a mutual understanding. This is where— this is where you will shine. Oh, okay. So a lot of bitchiness, a little bit of stubbornness is coming up. I think that's coming from you, actually. You're holding yourself back a lot.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You got some biting words for yourself. You got some choice words for yourself. Opportunities are given to you sometimes and you, you don't identify them as opportunities because they don't come up in the way that you expect them to come up. So, um, that's with the Four of Cups reversed.

Um, you're blowing my mind here, girl.

So, so that's what I'm seeing right now for you. Okay, so the, the biggest message from all of these cards that I pulled was follow the non-traditional route. There are injustices that people are facing, not just, you know, between, between, you know, like people of color, but it was strongly within the LGBTQ community, right? Okay, so what else do you want to ask me?

Oh, I think you answered it all.

Okay, yeah, I'll take a picture of these two and then the order in which I pulled them so that you can—

I mean, there was just so much that you gave me in those 5 cards.

Well, it ended up being more than that because I asked for clarity. Okay, okay, but 5 cards, 5 cards opened it up. So you had the Hermit reversed. It's like you're feeling like, uh, yeah, I need, I need to recharge.

Yeah, especially the last few days. Yeah.

Yeah, so there you go. Give it— I mean, remember, you're not able to give any more of yourself until you're able to really kind of take care of yourself and recharge.

Yeah, you know, yeah, I, you know, practice what I preach, right?

But that's hard.

That is hard. Wow, such insight. Thank you for that.

Right? Yeah, shadow work.

I mean, I'm just like, oh, that's what's called— so we just did shadow work.

Well, possibly. I mean, did I pull up some insecurities that you had?

Oh yeah.

But see, the thing is, like, I'm just telling you with these, like, inanimate meaningless cards, right? But the words that I'm using are somehow drawing a reaction from you, right? And so, but that's all you. All of that is you. And so you're accessing a part that maybe you're just usually uncomfortable accessing, or you just don't like to because we tend to curate our experiences so that we can navigate forward, right? And so maybe this is just one of those things that kind of shakes you and is like, "Nah, bitch, you gotta get that out!" Let's talk about it! I love that!

Oh my God, yeah, such power in everything that you just said. Yeah, thank you so much for that. You're welcome. Yeah, the non-traditional route, I have been second-guessing myself a lot, I do want to reach out to the LGBTQ community and I just haven't done it. Why?

You don't have to tell me, let's ask.

Let's ask, let's do.

What is keeping her from reaching out? You like to be well informed, you like to have all of the info, which is Which is fine. I mean, I think most of us does— do. But, well, one, you don't want to make the wrong call and you don't want to present yourself in a way that is like ill-prepared. I don't know if that's true.

I want to be ready.

But there's no better time than— I mean, what did Walter Mercado say? You don't have to— I don't have to rehearse to be myself. So, I mean, You, you just go in there and you already have a plan. You really do. Maybe practice and articulate the plan. There's another thing going on here. Hold on just a second. Yeah, okay, so if it makes you feel better, you can prepare You can prepare, but the thing is, one of the concerns that I see, again, it's up to you if this is true, the more prepared that you feel like you are, the more your expectation, the higher your expectation rises. Does that make sense? So you're minimizing the space for feedback. So like, if, if you feel like you're well-read in a particular subject, right, you, you may not feel like you have space for people to help, like, help you improve upon an idea or a thing, right?

So a little bit of fixed mindset.

Yeah. And, and, but even like with writing, okay, so like when I wrote, like, okay, so when I wrote my script I tried to not be so rigid in terms of like the stories and the characters because I mean, I only know, I mean, I only knew from my experiences. I didn't, like, I don't know what sells. I don't know what is, what is a good sitcom. So allow, you don't want a completely finished product because you don't want to be married to it because with what you feel is a completely finished product, increase is the expectation, your expectation, so that denial or that criticism can become like a personal attack. So if you're not committed entirely, I mean, commit to your dream, but don't commit to the idea entirely like that. I mean, I mean, that's just, I mean, you do whatever you want.

Nice. I didn't know you were a writer.

Okay, so after After the suicide attempt, it was an attempt and plan, I learned that a lot of my depression and a lot of that I hid behind jokes and just joking and self-deprecation and whatever. That's just how I hid it. So it was quite shocking to even my mother that I was depressed, that I I was even suicidal my entire life. She just never thought that. And then, you know, after I got help and after I got diagnosed, I remember some crazy stories between my best friend and I from grad school. And we're like, I just— these are such wild stories, we should write them. And, you know, grad school, I don't know, maybe Shelley had a different experience, but mine was really difficult. And so there was no eating, like, I was just not healthy. But it was a lot of drinking.

Okay.

And I mean, when you're working with like, she's working with a virus and I'm working with bacteria, and you go in there and you're hungover, and then 2 years later, you're writing, you know, papers and you get awards for research, you know, and you get grants and you're just like, how am I even doing this? Like, I don't, I'm drunk most of the time.

Oh no.

But that was our coping mechanism.

Yeah.

So we were operating under negative capability. So like, you know, so anyway, so that story was like, well, these are crazy stories. They need to be told. And so I started, so I attended the workshop, this workshop, this writing workshop. And it, oh man, it's in Burbank. It's a comedy, it's a comedy club, I can't remember. Okay, well, the guy was a, is a sitcom writer, and he ghostwrites a lot too. And so I did this workshop, and I sold— well, not sold, but I kind of gave my pitch, and they're like, that's it, you know, there's no sitcom out there. And I don't want to give too much just because I don't want, you know, like, yeah, yeah, yeah, I got it, I got it. Um, so I got good feedback, but at the same time, there was a point where I'm like, no, I want to stay true to these stories because If we change the character, then these stories, you know, just, they just aren't the same. And they're like, but no one knows the stories, the value and the meaning of the story won't change. The message won't change. It's just the caricatures just have to be shifted in order to tell your story more efficiently within 22 minutes.

Got it. So, okay.

Yeah. So that was it.

Anyway.

So yeah, I did that.

Holy smokes, Heidi, this has been, again, I, I reiterate that I find you so fascinating. Like, I could easily sit here and let this be a 5-hour podcast because I have so many questions, you know, and like, I just, I just love talking to you and all the different places we were able to go. And thank you for just being open to go to all of those different places.

Thank you for having me.

Absolutely. So just one final question. In your lifetime, what is your biggest impossible dream? Something that you don't think is possible today, but it's like, if I could just do that, looking back in retrospect, I would have really, really lived. I would have really accomplished something. What is that thing? Have you thought of that?

Oh, uh, yes. Uh, had I just gone to school for architecture.

Hmm. Okay. Does that mean— yeah, okay. So would you ever pivot and do that?

Um, well, probably not to go to school for architecture because I'm done with school. But that doesn't mean I can't— when I, you know, for my next home, I can't design it or redo. I mean, and I get to do it on my own terms and I don't have to, it doesn't have to be, that experience doesn't have to be soured by being paid to do something that other people want. I get to do it on my own terms, whatever I want.

That's a great perspective. I love it. So just one last thing. What is your preferred method of contact? Because, you know, if I'm a listener, I want to reach out to you. Where would you like people to reach out to you?

Sure. So, uh, my email at mystichydrogen@gmail.com, or on Instagram at— my handle is @heidihydrogen1. And also for my tarot service, it would be @mystichydrogen.

Nice.

On Instagram.

Yeah. And of course, I'll have that down in the notes. So Heidi, this has been an absolute blast.

Like, yes, it has. I know I'm a lot of fun. Yes, you are.

Yes, you are. Thank you so much for doing this. And, you know, I just— I wish we could have made it out to San Diego so that we could see each other in person, but I'm giving you a virtual tight hug right now.

Yes. But also, thank you so much for creating a very safe space, an open place, and, and make— allowing me to feel comfortable in sharing and very non-judgmental space. Thank you so much, and I hope that you follow this non-traditional dream of yours because it's wild.

Absolutely, I'm gonna think about it all weekend. Yeah, yeah, I too will journal about it, so there we go.

Yes, and tarot cards.

Tarot cards. Yes, yes, okay. How often can I come back with more, for more readings?

Um, it depends. So like if they're, if they're large major, major shift change readings, you can— I mean, you can just text me once a week. Or, but if you want like whole spreads, like I want career, life, blah, once a month.

Okay, perfect. All right, thank you one more time, Heidi, for doing this.

Thank you.

Okay, all right. If you like what you're hearing and perhaps you're interested in having a complimentary conversation with me. Click the link at the bottom of the show notes. Thank you so much for listening. If you even want to know more about what I'm up to, head over to traviestewart.com. And if you like seeing the videos of the podcast, every episode is on my YouTube channel. Take care, guys.