How to make an impact with performance

You're listening to Work That Out Podcast, episode number 5. Thank you so much for joining us today. My goal with these conversations is to explore different types of people and their successes as well as their failures in navigating and mapping out their lives so that you too may have more insight in what it takes to build the life that you envision for yourself. I believe if you take action each day, the life that you want can be closer than you think. Welcome to Work That Out, guys. Your guide to connecting authentically, living with purpose, and having no regrets. This is a show that gives you real stories and real examples of people working it out and creating the life that they want. On this episode, we talk about what it looks like to perform on different levels, whether that's film, television, or stage., and then we transition into Christianity and faith and what that looks like in today's society and also how it affects injustice and racism. My guest today is an actress, a singer, producer, director, and a writer. She is also the founder of Performer's Edge in Dallas, Texas. She is the music leader at Redeemer Covenant Church in Dallas. She has performed in various films, on television, and commercials since 2006. She's also spent some time being the lead singer in a cover band. She also won the reality show An American Princess, which aired on the Women's Entertainment Network a few years ago. She is represented by various talent agencies in Texas and in Louisiana. Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like to welcome you to the podcast with Cassie Watson. Ladies and gentlemen, today I'm sitting down with Cassie Watson. Cassie is a singer. She's an actress. She's a producer, a director, and a writer. All of these things, right? Cassie is one of the students that I taught at the very first high school I ever taught at. And Cassie was the epitome of someone who was so hungry to succeed. And I just watched your work ethic. Kind of, there was a seed that was planted and then I watched it grow and evolve and evolve into what it is today. And to even think I had a little bit to do with that is so inspiring. And so Cassie, tell us a little bit about what's going on in your life right now. You know, you, you have all these things on your resume: actress, singer, producer. Tell us a little bit, just kind of get us on an even foundation as to where you are, what's going on right now.

Well, first off, I'd like to say that, um, if I'm being honest, you have everything to do with why I'm where I am today and why I'm doing what I do. So let's just get that out of the way.

Thank you.

And, um, and right now, you know, um, I have, I have, I've been acting since, since I can remember and it's been my passion all my life and, and that, um, Anytime I try to do anything else other than acting, I feel like I'm, I'm, I'm not doing what I need to be doing. So that's, that's what I focus my life on is acting. And then I, when I learned how to sing and I realized that I actually could sing, I think doors kept opening for me to sing, you know. And it's been a, it's been a lot of learning in my life, learning how to learn, learning what I'm capable of, I think. So right now I'm teaching, so When I set out to do, after college, and I set out to do life, I was like, these are the things I want to do. I want to act, I want to sing, and I want to teach. And that's exactly what I did. So I opened up my own studio for acting and singing so I can teach kids and some adults how to sing and act. And I started singing in bands and I lead music worship. I'm the worship leader at my church and have been for 11 years now. And I was in a band for 5 years. And then I was, um, I've been acting this whole time too. So, you know, these are things that I wanted to do. And so I was like, okay, if I want to do them, the only person that's going to hold me back is me. And so I just did them.

Wow. So what's going through my mind right now, as you say all of that, because I knew you from such a young age, I remember when you did not have the level of confidence that you have in yourself today. What do you think that process looked like? I know it's been a minute, but talk me through the process of you didn't believe in yourself, you didn't— I mean, because, you know, the one thing I love to say about the first show I ever directed you in, it was like all I needed you to do was chew gum and turn your head.

Yeah, I still can't do that sometimes, but you know.

Just turn your head, girl.

Chew the gum.

Nope, don't stop chewing the gum, but turn your— together. But I just remember those are such, I mean, memorable, and I love those days. Tell me about that process of not feeling like you believed enough in yourself to where you are today.

You know what I had to do? Because I can remember that moment when you're— because I wanted you to— I wanted to impress you so much. And I think that was the change, is I went from wanting to impress you to wanting to understand your mind and and what you were telling me to do and why you were telling me to do it. And at some point in my high school career, I mean, I wasn't, I wasn't amazing in high school. I think I had a lot of work ethic and I was still learning, but I wasn't like where I needed to be to that level. But, and I'm still not, I'm still learning. So I can't even say that I'm amazing now. I'm still learning constantly and every day just keep pushing myself to be better. But, but that confidence came when I understood that it wasn't about impressing someone. It was about understanding understanding what they wanted to see and getting into their head, just like I get into my character's head. So I step into my character and I don't judge my character. I don't try to, I don't try to place limitations on my character. I try to understand. I try to just be that character. And then when, and it's the same concept, the same idea I take when I'm working with a director is I don't say, okay, What does that director want to see? Or why does that director want to see it? Or they're just being mean to me. Or all those things that you could say when a director is telling you things to do or they're pushing you to your limit. You just say, you know what, this director needs this out of me and I can try to see their mindset. I try to see through their eyes what they're trying to get me to do. And it has really helped me. It helped me through college. I mean, I can't say how working with a director like you who just pushes and pushes and pushes and, And it makes you good. I mean, it makes you, it makes you good. I would not have succeeded at all. I would not have gotten lead roles in college. My first musical I auditioned in college, I got a role and that's unheard of as far as in, at UNT. And that was, that was because I had that foundation of a solid, solid foundation where I was able to understand certain things about myself because I had a good director pushing me. And, um, and I think that that built my confidence. I had that foundation. A lot of people don't have that foundation. And I think that that's so— it's critical in your— when you're in the first stages is to have that foundation, have someone good training you, because it gave me the confidence. I knew I had a foundation and I knew that, um, that I could, I could step out and feel confident that I had the training that I needed. And that's always been important is having that training. So I try to instill in my students is you gotta, you have to have this training. You have to be pushed. Like you can't just go out and expect roles to be given to you.

Right. So let's, let's delve into that a little bit. So, you know, part of, you know, everybody knows that I'm, you know, I'm no longer a high school teacher. Um, I'm moving on full-time life coach here, but one of the, one of the deciding factors with me leaving the world of education was I am a director who— and a teacher who will push my students to figure out really what they're made of, you know? Like, I just never— I never came from the school of let's just pacify them. No, I wanted to push you to your limits to where you were now able to go into another gear. You were able to dig so deep. And I tell you, one of— like, the thing that I— absolutely love about theater is when you guys would pull out something that I didn't expect to happen. And, you know, there were just times when I just was speechless. I would get chill bumps. And so it's just really instilling in you that you can do these things, that you— it's within you. We just are trying to pull it out, right? So that's the kind of director and a teacher I've always been, because I can find potential in everyone. But today, it's so different, you know? It's so different. Different when we're talking about pushing the kids, the work ethic that they need to have. Talk to that because I know you are the founder of Performer's Edge in Dallas, where kids pay to come and learn from, you know, your experience, everything. What are they doing? They're doing commercials, they're doing movies, they're doing— they're singing, they're— are they dancing? So speak to what the kids are doing and how— I mean, because you came, you're kind of old school now, right? And you came from the, the perspective of you've got to work for this compared to where they are today.

Yeah. And a lot of my students don't last very long. I mean, I have a lot of students that come in and they— or they'll last and they'll just complain the entire time because I push them and I push them the way that I— I can tell you that your influence on my life has lasted through everything that I do because the way I push my students is the way you pushed me. And it's because that's how I learned. I mean, I didn't, because I know you probably remember this. I mean, I felt a little entitled when I was in, when I was in high school, and I think I got angry when I didn't get cast in roles. And, and at some point when I was in high school, I realized, okay, sure, I think that I can do that role, and I think that I'm good enough to do that role, but, but does, does she actually think I'm good enough? And if she doesn't, what is she not seeing in me, and how can I improve myself to get those roles that she's not thinking that I have the the ability to play right now. And my students come in and they— when I don't cast them in something, or if I don't give them the lead role, they complain the whole time. They're like, there's a reason. And I'm blunt. I don't give them any reason to wonder why I don't. I said— or if they don't get cast in a role at school, I'm saying, well, this is— these are the things that you, you do. You don't work. You come in, you don't have anything memorized. You just expect people to give things to you. And This is why you don't get those roles. This is why you're not getting lead roles. And until you do these things, until you actually push yourself to be the best that you can be, until you actually go out of your way to make— to really understand and find that character instead of, well, my character will come to me. Do your character analysis, analysis. Do your— do the thing, do the work, and then you'll understand the character. You'll be the character, and you can actually grow as an actor. And so it's very seldom, um, Actors do that, especially kids. They just want everything given to them. And I have a few really great students who push themselves and just are always on board to just be pushed, but it is so few, so far between. And, and when you find those students, like, I'm like, that student has the potential to, to, to really do this.

And you just know it.

And you just know it. Yeah. You just know it. And that's, those are the students that I'm like, okay, you want to write a play? Let's write a play. I'll produce it for you and we'll get it on the stage. And we've done that. And those students are the ones that really shine. And you see, okay, you want to do a film, you produce the film, and, or I'll help you produce the film, we'll shoot it, we'll get it made, you, you write it, you do this, and they step up and you give them opportunities. You give those students that you know are capable and you know are working hard opportunities and they're going to take it. And it's the ones that, that want to be the star and don't want to the opportunities are just too much work. Those are the ones that eventually they're gonna kind of fade, you know?

Right.

And what can you do? Like, I—

yeah, you can't get up there and do it for them. So tell me a little bit about your process. So I know you've done film work, you have done commercials, you're in musicals, on stage plays. What's your process of— you know, I've always been a director who has believed in becoming the character, putting yourself in the shoes of the character, really taking on the ownership. Not everybody believes in that. What's your process? Like, what— just very quickly, take me through when you're cast in the role before the first rehearsal. What are the things that are that, like, as part of your, your routine?

Well, it depends on what I'm doing. If it's theater, you have time to actually have a process, um, because you have time to actually delve into the to analyze the character and understand the character, and then you step into their shoes. Film, there have been times I've gotten a role in a film 3 days before I'm supposed to shoot it, and I'm like, okay, well, I'm glad that theater was the best thing in the world to start off in, because the thing is, is that when you're in theater and you first start and you have a good teacher who teaches you character analysis and teaches you how to, how to understand a character and gives you the tools to do that. When you get to the point where you've done that in high school, you've done it in college, and you get, you get into this professional world, you can do it quickly. You don't have to write it down anymore. You don't have to sit step by step and go, well, take 4 days to write a character analysis. You've done it so often that it's like, okay, well, here's my character, you know, I've got, I've got to figure this character out in less than 24 hours. Let's go, let's do it. And that's on top of learning lines, you know, sometimes. So it's— it— I think that used to, it would take a lot more time, but the more you do it, the more you dedicate yourself to just doing the work in the beginning, you find 20 years later that it's so much easier and that you can just sit down and just, you know, you get a character and you just go with it. And the one thing that I feel like that I've learned and just in life of working with different directors is to never judge the character. Never judge them. Because when you start judging the character, that's, that's your first mistake is when you judge the character because the character, you are the character. If you start saying, well, this character wouldn't do this, you're limiting that character because that character, yeah, that character doesn't have those judgments. They're not looking at themselves the same way somebody on the outside is looking at them.

Right.

See, so, um, I was reminded I got cast in a film. I mean, I have some, but a play that Del Shores wrote recently, and it had to be put off till next year because of COVID But in the first couple weeks of rehearsal, he was like, Cassie, you're judging your character. And I was like, ah, I am, because I played this character. She, she used to be a stripper, and she was, she had all these problems, and she had all these things wrong with her. And when she was a little girl, she sang in this, in this Christian singing group with her sisters, and she went from that to saying that she's atheist and all these things, and it's like, and it was so easy for me to judge her for the things that she had done, and then I realized, when I realized I was judging her, I was like, that is the number one thing that you should never do for a character is judge them, because it was limiting her, and as soon as I got rid of that judgment and I just became her, it's like I felt so much more free, And I think that's— it's just vital to your characters to just freely be able to step into their shoes instead of putting restrictions on them from the very beginning by judging them.

Nice. So you mentioned Del Shores. Can you take us back to— let's say, you know, there is, you know, a young adult listening to this podcast right now, and they're like, oh my God, I really would love if they would talk to— what is the process that Cassie got into film? How did you initially get your first film role, and how were you so quickly connected to Del Shores?

My first film role, I auditioned— I was working at a furniture store in East Texas. I was managing it, and I had done a reality show, and I'd won the reality show, and I decided I wanted to act full-time and do all that. And because now I had money, I could do that, and I could do all these things. So I auditioned for an extra role in this film that was filming in Longview, Texas. So I went in and I gave them my resume and everything, and they're like, um, can you read for this other role? This— and I was like, an actual role? They're like, yeah. So I was like, okay. I didn't know this didn't happen in every extras audition.

One with lines?

Yeah, one with lines.

Yeah.

So they gave me this role. I'd never been in a film before except for the reality show. So they gave me, they gave me the, these, this role. I read for the director. The director came out and he was like, okay. So I read for him and he's like, okay, you got the role. And I was like, okay. So I went in for an extra role and I came out with a supporting role. And I was like, okay, this is cool. And that's how it set my tone for film and television acting. And that was, I mean, it set my standards really, my bar really high at that point. Cause I was like, The first role was I went in for an extra.

And were you actually that calm? Okay, cool.

Yeah, I was because for, you know, I had this over, I think just because I'd been acting so much like in college, just one play after the other. And I always had teachers that kind of took me under their wing. So I had this inflated sense of confidence. I don't know if it was right or wrong, but I was confident that I could do anything, I guess, and tried to be humble in that. So I was in a good place at that time mentally in my acting career that I was like, I was ready for anything. I was just hungry to act. And I'd gotten out of college and I hadn't done, I hadn't done anything in like, you know, 6 months or whatever. And I was like, I'm ready for something. I don't care what it is, just give it to me, you know. And so I wasn't, I wasn't really nervous. I was like, Yeah, sure, I can do that. That's fine. And it was weird because I feel like— I don't know why I wasn't nervous now that I think about it. Now that you said that, I don't have no idea why I wasn't nervous because I should have been. I mean, I didn't know. I guess I didn't know that— I didn't know film and television enough to know that this doesn't happen very often, right? You know, and I think that that ignorance or that, that lack of knowledge, that, that, that really helped me to not be nervous because I didn't understand that, I guess.

Right. And how did you get your first Del Shores role?

Okay, so after, after the reality show, um, I got an agent in Louisiana and one in Texas. And my Louisiana agent, um, they were, they were great and they pushed me to audition for everything that came through Shreveport. And Shreveport was really booming at that time, so I was living in Longview, so I would drive down to Shreveport all the time and I auditioned for this, this show called Sorted Lives. And it was, I think it's my first TV show to audition for. And I auditioned for the show. And by that time, I'd done a couple of film things. And, and, and so I had a little bit on my resume. And I auditioned for this TV show. And, you know, I was nervous about that. But, but the thing is, I didn't connect the fact that this was like the Del Shores that was casting it. I just thought, you know, the Del Shores that wrote Daddy's Dying, Who's Got the Will, which I had done. And I was like, I didn't connect that, which I would have I don't know if I've ever told him that. Cause I played it off in the audition room like I did know.

Right, right.

But yeah, so I was in a Goodwill looking for a shirt to wear for this audition. She was like this backwoods goat loving, she talked like this and she was like, oh my God, you know, she's like that kind of person. So I was like, okay, this is, this is, I can do this. I know this character. And I was standing in the Goodwill and looking for a shirt and I found like the perfect shirt for this character. And all of a sudden I hear this woman talking and she's like, I'm like, oh my God, that is the character I am going to play. Like I hear her talking and so I, I'm looking around Goodwill for this woman because all I hear is, Skater, Skater, you need to come over here. And I'm like, oh, this is the one, this is her. So I find her in Goodwill and I'm like, okay, um, and I just start a conversation with her and apparently I knew her and everything and I talked to her for like 15 minutes, and after that I had my character, and I went into my audition, did it, and then I got a callback, and Del was gonna be at the callback.

I'm noticing how you're totally that character right now, 'cause you're thick into that accent right now.

Yeah, once I start that accent, I can't stop. That's the, and that's an issue. It's Texas. But yeah, so I got the callback and I was on my way to Shreveport for the callback and I got pulled over by a cop and I was running late to my callback and the casting director called me and he's like, Cassie, where are you? I'm like, I'm running 10 minutes late. Now any other time, like I knew any other time the director would have been like, no, move on to the next person. And the casting director would never call you. Like that's not even a thing. So the fact that Ryan, Ryan, which is, casting director called me, I was like, why is he calling me? This is not normal for a casting director to be calling me personally and saying, where the heck are you? And so apparently Dale was— had already cast me in his mind. He'd already cast me. So when I got there, I walked in and I was disheveled, and Dale's like, you know what? He's like, don't be nervous, it's fine, it's not a big deal, just do your thing, girl. And I was like, I was like, I Okay, okay. So apparently he'd already cast me in his mind and he was just worried that I wouldn't show up. So he had Ryan call me to make sure I was actually coming. So I came in, I auditioned, and, um, and he was, he was just fun to audition for. He was fun to— I got the role and then it was fun to just be around him. And because he was a good person, you know, I had a lot of experiences with good people in the beginning of my career. And people who really just were friends throughout, have been friends throughout my life after that. And Del has been a great friend. And, you know, I didn't— I only was only in 3 episodes of that, of that, of that show. And he, he really just took me under his wing and just anytime I was in LA, hey, you can stay with me. Anytime I was— anytime he was doing a workshop in Dallas, hey, do you want to take this workshop? You You know, you want to come to my shows, you know, you don't have to pay, it's fine. It's like, it's like, who does that? I mean, who really does that unless you have a genuinely good heart? And he does. And just working with people like that in the beginning of my career made me realize that there are good people in this business. And I was— all the horror stories, and this is, you know, and it was nice to get good people.

And you know, Cassie, you're a good person also. So generally good people attract other good people, you know, because you have such a good pure heart. You know, I mean, I think if, if even today, I think if I needed something and you were the person that I chose to go to, I think you would give me the shirt off your back.

Well, I'm indebted to you for the rest of my life. So, so give me the shirt.

I wouldn't have a career.

So which shirt do you want? Whatever.

Oh my goodness. So that's so, but, but know that about yourself that you track those things as well. So I want to dive a little deeper here. So I know that you're a music director at your church, is what, Redeemer Covenant in Dallas? You're music. And then I remember reading your post the other day on Facebook about It was a little, it was a little testy, you know. So before we dive into that post, how do you separate your faith and your work?

Um, so, um, you ask how I separate my faith and my work, and honestly, I don't.

Okay.

Because to me, you know, I have this this feeling that when I act, and a lot of people don't understand acting, and this is where the conflict comes in. A lot of people don't understand that acting is not just being somebody that is like you. You're stepping into another person's shoes. You're stepping into another person's life, and you're understanding that person on a level that most people aren't able to understand because, because like I said earlier, you're not judging them. You are them. And to understand, and the thing is, I'll never understand people the way, you know, I never will go through the actual things they went through. I'll never, I'll never be able to do that. But to understand them on a level where I'm just them and I'm not judging them, I'm just, just becoming them in a safe place and stepping into their shoes in a safe place and able to get into their mindset in a safe place, I feel like that, that is the epitome. That is what exactly what Jesus did, when God did, when he sent himself to the earth to become human. You know, he stepped into the shoes of humans to understand them. Not to become like them and do the things that they do and contribute to the things of the world that we're supposed to separate ourselves from or to contribute to sin. He came so we can understand humans, and in that, he was better able to understand humans so that humans could see that he loved them enough to do that. And when— and I feel like as As Christians, we're called to understand people, not to judge them. And so often we get caught up in judging. So if I play— so if I play a crack whore in a whorehouse, to me I'm understanding that person because those people actually exist. They exist for a reason. And I'm sorry, that's just the world we live in. And I'm not called to judge them. I'm stepping into their shoes for a little bit and I'm understanding them on a level that I couldn't understand them if I just if I just looked at them on the outside. It's making me open my eyes to who they really are and why they're in that place that they are, you know, what brought them to this place. Maybe they had no other choice. Maybe they were sold into the sex— into sex slavery when they were young and they couldn't get out of it no matter how hard they've tried. You don't know where that person's been. And I think that that is— it's so important to understand people on a non-judgmental level and really step into their shoes so you can see see their lives. And to me, that's what acting is, right? And it's not for everybody, and not everybody— but God's given me a gift to act, and I, you know, use it to be able to understand people. And, and it's a, it's a gift to me. That, that is a gift to me. And it— and I've, you know, I was in a film with Forest Whitaker and 50 Cent, and I got some flak for that film because I was in a scene with a bunch of naked chicks in a whorehouse. And I got some flack for that film. I wasn't naked. I didn't— I was like, you know, I'm not doing nudity. But I did get flack for that film from a couple people that I knew that were Christians. And I was like, one, why are you watching that film if you think it's bad? Why are you watching that film? And two, you don't understand why I do what I do, you know. It's just, just being in that film and being in— most of the women that were in that film were actually strippers, you know, and being able to talk to people and really, really understand their stories and not judge them because at that point you are one of them. And you walk in as a Christian who has their life together and things like that, you walk into a place and automatically those people are gonna think that you're judging them. But when you walk into a place and you are in a character and and you are one of them, you know, it's like all of a sudden you become— the judgment lifts. You're not there to judge them. You're just there and you're talking to them, you know, and you're just being. And, um, that's so important and it's so vital to the way I see people. Now, I'm not perfect, and yes, there are times when, you know, my poor fiancé, I judge him constantly.

You're not supposed to judge!

But I do it, you know. But I think that I'm reminded when I'm doing acting, I'm constantly reminded, you know, to understand people instead of look from an outsider's point of view.

Right. So that's an incredible perspective. So let's talk a little bit about the post that I think it was maybe a week ago, a few days ago or so. And it was just all about you asking, you know, your Christian friends, to my Christian friends, I think that's how you started out about wearing masks. You know why the importance of wearing masks? That is the very reason why I don't post controversial things. And I know I read, I like, I read through your whole post. I read some of the comments. I, number one, just talk me through, cause you knew you were going to come up across against some of that negativity. I mean, some of the things that we're hearing right now, or is that Oh, this whole coronavirus. Oh, it's a hoax. You know, don't be sheep.

Like it's an opinion or something. Yeah.

Like people aren't really dying. And I think, I don't know if it was on your post or not, where some guy commented and he said, well, yeah, if I die today, they're just going to blame this on the coronavirus and it could have been something else. Girl, how do you, I mean, like number one, because I think I just have a shorter fuse. And so I would have just gone through and I mean, you maintain such composure. And such a level of professionalism in that post to where, like, even in your commenting, how did you— how were you able to stay that sane and not get pissed and or rude or belligerent?

I think that my point with the post was to say, hey, there's a few things we can do to show people we love them as Christians. And right now, this is one of those easy things we could do. And if I had really gone off on these people that were acting like total jerks on my post, that would have been against everything that I posted about, what I stood for. And I felt like, hey, I tried to redirect and say, hey, this is not about whether or not this virus is real. This is not about whether or not masks are good or not. This is not about that. This is about just we as Christians showing love instead of constantly hating, constantly trying to be right. It's not about being right or wrong. It's not about— this is not about that. God commanded us in 1 Peter to love. That's what he said. You love one another sincerely and deeply. That's what he said. Not, hey, if it's good for you, love one another. If you feel like wearing a mask, then you can love the other person. You know, you show them love. This isn't— this is such a trivial matter. And And it's so trivial to make this into such a huge ordeal when it could be seen as an opportunity to say, hey, you know, I care enough about you just to wear this mask. You know, it's so easy. It's such an easy thing. And I think, you know, being— my fiancé's an orthodontist and he has surgeon friends and just hearing the stories of the people coming to the hospital hospital and, and being, knowing firsthand that this virus is real because, because knowing the surgeon, the people we do in the medical field, um, knowing that it's a real thing and seeing people are so removed because it's not happening to them. It's not happening to their family. They're so removed from it. And I'm sorry, but it is happening and people are scared. Whether you're scared or not is beyond the point. The thing is people are scared because their family members, their mother they've been taking care of for, for the last 6 years is in bad health and she could die and they don't want to see her die like that. You know, they want her to die peacefully. And there are people that have to be out there and have to be working in this mess. They, they're putting their, their lives on the line, you know, because those are the ones that end up— the people that have the low-income jobs and are out on the front lines pretty much, you know, having to do these things— those are the ones that end up you know, they live, they have larger families and people are living cohabiting, um, living together in one household. They're the ones ending up getting this and ending up in the hospitals. And it's like, you just, just, just care about somebody else enough just to say, hey, right. It's easy. Whether you think it works or not, it's just really easy.

Right. I love that. Thank you for that. So when you're talking about Like for instance, my— I do a lot of values work and every now and then, you know, your values can change. My personal values, my top 2 values are love and connection. Like I love to— I think we're put on this earth to love and connect with each other, to not be holed up, you know, somewhere in a hole by yourself. And so that means a lot to me. Someone else's values could be integrity, honesty, whatever it is. So because of your faith, because of your stance. What happens when you have a very, very close friend, a close associate, someone that you spend a substantial amount of time with, who suddenly reveals feelings about something that you don't agree with? How do you proceed with continuing that friendship? Like, for instance, You know, is it that you're a Christian, so if you found out that this person really isn't a Christian, that they're— maybe they're an atheist, maybe they don't really care about people as much as you care about people, and if, you know, if we're here to help and be a witness to other people, how can they have those attributes?

Um, just to You know, I've known lots of atheists in my life. I've had a lot of friends who don't believe in God or agnostic, and I don't try to change anybody. I think that's our number one issue is we try to change people into what we think they should be like or what we think they should be instead of doing the simple things like just doing simple things to show them we love them. We all of a sudden becomes you're judging them. And the same application I take on my characters, I take on, okay, I can understand why you think Christianity is a horrible thing to associate with because of all the hate going on right now in Christians saying things that's out of hate. But understand that's not Christianity. That when people say hateful things and they say it's because God told me to do this, that are being hateful. That's not what Christianity is about. That's not what Jesus Christ stood for. And, and all I can do is just, is just love them, you know. At that point, all you're meant to do is not judge them, is just show them what Christianity is and not try to tell them, not try to change them, not try to convert them. And the thing is, is that all you can do is show them, and if they choose to choose God after they've seen what God can do to someone's life and what God can be in someone's life, then that's their choice. But to just be all, you know, just to be all talk and no game, I mean, that to me is just— what's the point? That's not— Jesus Christ didn't live like that. So how can you justify— how can you justify just talking and not doing simple things to show people people you love them, you know, not getting on another person's level and being friends with those people, you know. And even, I think people are afraid that if they're friends with someone who thinks differently than them, it's going to influence them. But what you learn when you're talking to people who may not agree with you or believe in the same things you do is that, is that you, you learn from them. You learn why people don't like Christians. You learn why people think the way they do about Christianity, and then that you can assess that. You can say, I can understand that. I can understand what you're seeing. Now see a different side of it, because, because I am a Christian and I want to show you that I'm not judging you, and here's a different side of it.

Right. That is such a powerful stance. It really is. And, you know, kudos to you for being able to do it. And I— there are times when I know I personally don't maintain that.

Yeah, I don't, I don't always maintain that, that's for sure. There have been times in my life where I feel like I've, I've, especially in the last few years with this last breakup that I had, that I just, I lost myself, you know, and I lost who I was. And that's, I think that's the one regret I have in my life. The one thing that I have is that I lost myself in for a couple of years there. Just all these things that I'm saying now, 2 years ago, I couldn't have told you these things because I was completely drowning in just sadness and overwhelmed with just anger, you know, and just trying to get over that and realizing these things are so important to not feel that anger, not feel that hate, not feel all those things that I was so caught up in at that time. And it took a lot to drag myself out of it. And I let a lot of myself go as far as, um, you know, my goals and the things that I had set for myself.

Right.

It's in these things I'm talking about right now have just, um, in the last couple of years have really, I've really starting to, to adopt. And I had adopted them a long time ago, but when you just go through, when you go through something that's traumatic in your life, you, you, you start working on try, just trying to survive in your mental state and forget the importance of, of these values. They're so important.

Nice. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. So, you know, we, the, the title of this podcast is Work That Out. So I want to go back to the story that you're talking about because, you know, I wanted to know if there was ever a time in your life where you felt like, I have no idea how I'm going to come out on the other side of this. And it sounds like that was the breakup and you, you just spoke about how you felt such anger. How were you able, like, just give us a little bit of a process as to how were you able to let go of that anger and find yourself again?

Um, I think, you know, in the beginning I, I can't even, and many people that are listening to this probably have been through a breakup, they have been through, um, go through a time in their life where it's really just upsetting. And I think along with going through, just getting through the anger, you know, in the beginning you're sad and you're overwhelmed. And then, and then there was a lot of drama that went on in the course of, in the course of all of it that just brought some really horrible things out of me, a lot of repressed anger and a lot of things that were just sitting bottled up for years and years. And I wish, now that I go back and I think about it, I wish I'd let those things go instead of just like having this idea of just, okay, just push it behind and let it go. You know, just push it behind, let it go. Instead of talking about it, I would just, I wouldn't want to start confrontation and I wouldn't want to. There's a point where you have to have confrontation sometimes. You have to have healthy confrontation. You have to have healthy discussions that aren't filled with anger, or eventually those things that make you angry will come out into an explosion. And I'm still, I mean, still to this day, I mean, used to, I wouldn't get mad at all. I would just like push it behind. I would get angry for a second. I walk away, calm down, and then I just wouldn't talk about it because I didn't want to feel anger. And that was so unhealthy. And so when the end of my, that chapter of my life ended, I had all this anger built up and then all this drama happened. Exploded. And I think I swear at some point I lost my mind. Like I completely just lost my mind to the point where I was like, you know, and the other person involved in this didn't have, wasn't much help with that. But it was like, but it was always my decision. It was always my decision to allow things to get out of hand. And then when I realized that, when I took responsibility for that, and stop blaming the other person. And that's when I— that just took the cake. Responsibility for my actions. Step out of that. Say, you know what, I can choose to not be this angry. I can choose to not be this upset and this sad. I can choose these things. And once I did that, I stepped out of it. I started getting better and I found my soulmate. I found my— my life has become so much more just happy. Do I still have explosions from time to time? Absolutely. Don't talk to Eli about that because he will tell you in detail. I can, I'm like, you know, I just need to take responsibility for that because the thing is, is like, this is, if I keep holding it in, you know, I won't ever be able to get over it. So my explosions have gotten less, but it's a process. It's not easy. The moment you say You take responsibility for it. It's not all ending right there.

Right.

And it's a long process sometimes. And that person that you're with may have to go through it with you. And it's important to go through it with people who understand what you've been through and can love you through it.

You know, that's incredible. Some people go their whole life not realizing that had they just taken responsibility for their role in whatever that, that argument, that fight, that marriage was, And that you can actually choose to respond differently. You can choose to react differently. I mean, that's priceless, Cassie. It really is. My goodness. And like, like, I feel like I'm talking to someone who is like, you know, 72 right now, because I mean, you really, from my perspective in this conversation, really have it, have it together, you know, because that is huge when you're talking about you can choose these things. So when we're talking about choosing, you are choosing the life that you're living right now. Would you say you are living your definition of success?

I, I would say that I am, I'm redefining myself. And in that, I feel like my life, I've done everything that I have I set out to do in the beginning. And I feel like as long as I'm happy, that I'm living my idea of success. And the thing is, I am happy. And that's what, that's what was my— I never set out to succeed in the sense of, uh, most people that think that if you want to be an actor, your goal is to be a superstar or movie star, you have to make it big. That was never my goal, never from the beginning. I just wanted to act. I didn't care how. Yeah, I just wanted to work. I didn't care if it was gonna make me a star. None of that mattered to me. I just wanted to work. And I think that that made me happy. Just working made me happy. And then I wanted to teach, and teaching makes me happy. And seeing my students, the ones that really put their heart into it, I mean, just, it may— it's just so— gives me so much joy. And if they only knew that, I think they would work harder if they knew what it made me feel like to see them work hard and really, really learn. But just that it brings joy to my life. And that was my definition of succeeding. If I can get to a place where I'm doing the things that bring joy to my life, I'm doing— I'm happy with the life that I'm in. And so if I, if I, if I died right now, I would feel like I, I was successful at doing those things. Do I think there's more ahead of me? Absolutely. And I'm constantly changing the things that I want to do and, or trying new things, you know, and so that I can be the most rounded that I can be in this career that I've chosen for myself.

Right. So out of all of that, what is your biggest fear?

Um, my biggest fear I think is to is to become bitter. And I think that fear really showed its head whenever, in the last couple of years that I've had to go through stuff, is that bitterness that I could— in this, in this career path that I've chosen, in this business, there's so much, so many people just wanting to use you. They want to use you, they want to take advantage of you. You have to really fight for yourself a lot, and that can cause a lot of bitterness when you are— when you get in a situation. So there was a film that I was in. I worked— I gave up— I gave up two other films to be in this— to be in this film because I had already committed to it. And at the end of the film, they didn't pay us. They completely screwed us over, didn't pay us nothing. And those, those little instances in my life could easily make me become bitter in this business. And they started to. At that time when that happened, I was like, there was this little pinch of bitterness in me that just I kept carrying through each thing. And to take that bitterness and change it from bitterness to learning experiences, there's a fine line in this business to say, okay, don't be bitter about that. Learn from it and just cover your butt next time. Just make sure you know that this question could happen and that, um, that you're covered if it does. And I think that that's my fear is that just seeing how far I got down in the last few years, just seeing how in the pits that I got and how hard it was to crawl out, I never want to become bitter, like, and get that far down where I can't crawl out of that. Once you get Once you get into that pit of bitterness and anger and all those things, it is a fight to get out of it. And when you're surrounded by people all the time that are in the same business, you're all— you all have a lot of all those experiences together that make you just want to go, screw this, I don't want to do this anymore, you know?

Yeah.

I think that's my biggest fear, is to— because people can sense that bitterness. And I remember when I wasn't, but I remember when I had I wasn't bitter at all and I just wanted, I had that drive to just work. And I always want to remember those times. I always want to remember the Del Shores in my life that I took from that experience and the love and the giving nature that he had and how many people I worked with in the beginning of my career that showed me that there are good people out there and take that and try to have that trump the bitterness that is so easily so easily can overcome us and overwhelm us.

Right. Thank you for that. Um, as this, this is a different question. Okay.

I can see that something's coming up with this because I can see that face.

Yeah. Well, you know, recently, um, I don't know, I was on, I was on a, I was on a call. I was doing like a workshop and this guy on the workshop said, you know, we were talking about, oh, things that you assume people know. That, you know, that you are not going to explain. You just assume they know that. And the thing he said was he assumes that everybody knows that before you're born, you sign a contract with God that these are the challenges you're going to overcome, these are the obstacles, this is when you will enter, and this is when you will exit. It blew my mind that he thought that. What's your opinion of that? Because I'm still processing that.

One, none of us choose to be born, so we're kind of— we're brought into this world, and none of us choose the parents that we have. We don't. I think it's easy to say that. I mean, I don't know what that person's background is. I don't know where they've come from. I don't know what trials and tribulations they've had in their life, but I do know there are a lot of people who who have a lot harder than I have, and they didn't ask for any of it. You know, they've had it. You can't just say, this is what you should expect, so deal with it, and this is your contract with life, because none of us choose to enter into this life. And when you have that mentality— and I'm just, I haven't, I'm just processing this— so when you have that mentality of of, you know, you should just deal. It's almost like saying, just deal with it. You know, you, when you came into this world, this is what you were handed and just deal with it. That's what I feel like that person's saying, which I could be misconstrued, but that's what it feels like to me. And I don't feel like anybody should just have to just have that mentality, okay, I'll just deal with it. Sometimes what one person has to deal with is not the same thing as another person, what they have to deal with. And we have to be sensitive to that. And, um, I mean, just acting in general, I see how privileged and how completely easy my life was. And, and when not just acting, but just meeting people on a daily basis and just seeing what their, where their life has been. And what they've had to go through. I mean, seeing all the deaths that are happening in the Black community right now and just being torn apart by just— I've never had to go through things like that. And I may never have to even experience that and probably won't have to experience that. And how could anybody say, you know, just deal with it when sometimes it takes that person that didn't have to have that same contract, quote unquote, to stand up for the people who got a worse deal and to say, you know what, my contract was a little bit better than yours, so I'm going to stand up for you because you didn't get the same deal that I got. And just kind of help out. But that's just me. I mean, I haven't really had time. Ask me in 3 days and I may have a whole totally different look on that.

Yeah, as soon as I heard him say that, I've been processing it as well, you know, how do I feel about that? I don't know if I agree with that. Do I disagree with that? I just— it was such a different thing that I just had never heard anyone say, and it sort of in one way blew my mind, you know, good or bad, whatever. I just— I'm still processing it. So you talked a little bit about, you know, just the injustice, and I know we're gonna wrap up soon. You know, there's a lot of stuff that's going on You know, like, I am— I mean, I'm in Arizona and I am staying home more even though the state is pretty much open except for like, you know— well, no, bars and stuff are open too— except for like large concerts and things like that. And so there's a bit of— well, there's a lot of hesitancy. There's a lot of Oh my goodness, I could be next because I'm Black, because I'm a little overweight right now, and I feel like, you know, there was— I saw something on the news that there was this guy who was a sheriff who was fired from his job. He'll probably get another job tomorrow, and I think he said it was unfortunate that more Black people didn't die from, as a result of COVID-19. And so to be around people like that and then witnessing, you know, the opinions of people with George Floyd, you know, those types of things. And how do you— how do you process those things? I know, you know, you're like— I just, I don't even know what kind of society we're living in right now. And I feel like there's so much bitterness and so much racism that I don't think— I think it was just kind of buried for a while, and now that everybody has a phone and a camera, we're all just filming it. And so I feel like, like, it breaks my heart completely when I feel like we are still in a racist society. As a Black woman, it breaks my heart. I have a, you know, most of my friends are white. I don't think they look at me as going, "Heh heh," you know, "You're a number, you're a statistic," you know, "Comorbidity, you could be next." But I just, you know, as a Christian in Dallas, because Texas is a different beast as well, how do you make it through and work through and process the injustice, the racism, from your perspective?

Well, you know, I don't— sometimes I'm trying to— I try to think, what, what can I do? And I think that's the thing that keeps going through my mind is like, what can I do in this, in this environment that it has been created? What, especially in, you know, my church is, my church is wonderful. The church that I work at is, is absolutely wonderful. And, um, they're just, they're just, just wonderful human beings. Um, you know, that we have multiple ethnicities, multiple, um, different, lots of different types of people at my church. And, and everybody is going through something right now, you know, and it's like, I mean, my fiancé, he's Taiwanese and he's been, he's been in the US all of his life. And you know, when, when COVID came out and the whole Wuhan virus thing and, and the Chinese virus quote unquote, you know, that, that stupid crap. And it's like, I was like, if somebody had said something to him when we were, we were out shopping or something like that, or if we were just out walking on the street, somebody had said something, I probably would have gone off and probably punched them in the face. And that's like, I'm thinking that I'm like, ah, this anger is, it makes me angry. And I, and that's the thing is like, where do you go from, hey, this makes me really angry that people don't understand that privilege is actually a thing and that it actually exists in our world and it still exists in our world and that racism still exists in our world. And how can people not see that? And, And if someone ever came up to somebody that I cared about and I loved and did, did what they did, did some of the things that have been happening lately to the African American community, I mean, I would, I would want to kill somebody. And, and how horrible of a thought is that? Because that just brings more anger. The more anger you put out, the more anger you receive. And it's just, and at some point I have to say, you know what? I'm trying to think, you know, what could I do in a situation like that that doesn't involve violence, it doesn't involve hate, doesn't involve more anger? Like, what would I do, you know? And like, would I be willing if I saw, you know, Mr. Floyd being killed on the ground, would I be willing to just run up and push the cop off? Would I have the love for that human being to do that? You know, as a human, as a fellow human being. And what, what are we capable of? And we all need to start asking ourselves, you know, what is our part in this and how can we show love? And, you know, would we be willing to stand up for somebody if it meant losing our lives, you know, to do it? I mean, what, what are we willing to do? And it's a hard question to ask, and it's, it's hard, it's hard to know what where my place is in this being, being white, being female, and, and really having privilege work on my side all of my life, you know, and I've seen that. And to finally understand what privilege is, even in, you know, I don't think I understood privilege until I was like in my thirties, you know, until I was in my early thirties, understanding privilege and to really have that open my eyes and go, oh my God. Oh my God, I can see, I can see what this is now. You know, I understand this and just feeling guilty for that, you know, feeling guilty that I got the privileges that I did because of the color of my skin. And, um, and I don't know, I guess my question to you would be, how do you want someone to stand up for, for your rights as an African American? How would you want someone to, someone like me to stand up for you or to, you know, for this?

Okay, this is the meat here. I think it says a lot about our country when we put someone like Donald Trump in office. The way I would want, you know, someone like you to stand up for me is I think it's a total slap in the face when my friends come to me and go, "Oh, I care about you," and then I look at you and I look at them and know who they voted for, so I feel like the vote for Donald Trump— because, you know, everybody's like they blamed Obama, you know. President Obama didn't spew the nastiness Donald Trump spews, you know. He didn't take the stance. He was professional. He— and I'm not saying that just because he's a Black president. Like, I didn't think George W. Bush didn't amp that either. Donald Trump is a different beast. And so I think if we could really— because I'm telling you, if he is reelected, that just says the majority of the people, even friends of mine, have still voted for him. And so it's taking the bigger actions and it's taking the bigger stance that that is not okay. It's not okay that The leader of the free world talks to people the way he wants to, you know, he gets away. You know, when he was running, he said, I can go kill somebody in the middle of Times Square and get away with it. He's right, you know. And talk about, you know, people call, you know, when I went out, we did the teacher sheet, they're like, you're the teacher strike, they're like, oh, you're a sheep. No, what about all the people who are overlooking all the things that he says and does? And so what I want you to go push the cop off of, you know George Floyd's neck, you know, I don't know the answer. I just know that people in the society in 2020 have been given permission to say what they want and act the way they want. And all that racial tension, prejudice that's been buried, it's okay to now spew it.

Yeah, I agree.

Yeah, so, whoo.

Yeah, and And until you have, like, when he started calling the virus the Chinese virus, I mean, yeah, I was already, I was already like overwhelmed with like, what are you doing before, before all that? But when they started calling it the Chinese virus, it's like, that hit me personally because of Eli, because of Eli.

And you guys took a trip around that time.

Yes, we went to Taiwan in the beginning of the year. So, um, Yeah, so we had actually been in Taiwan, and one thing I learned about Taiwanese people is they respect each other. And lately I've been like, let's just move to Taiwan because I mean, people respect each other there. Wearing a mask is not like an option. You go into public transport, you know, you go into public places, they ask you to wear a mask. Nobody's like offended.

Right, I woke up in a free country this morning.

Yeah, why are you offended for wearing a mask? It's a piece of cloth you put on your face or whatever, it's not a big deal. But we take offense at everything that denies us to do whatever we want to do in America because we can or whatever. And in Taiwan, they look out for each other. And one way Eli put it, and what I respect about him is is that he, because he does have his, he does have, um, an idea of like, you know, what it is like to be in that culture and American culture is, um, because we're a melting pot here and there's so many different types of people here. I think we just don't get that same, you know, we're all in this together because we're all so different. Right. And in Taiwan, they're just one that, you know, they all, they all know where they came from. They all know what they're, you know, what they kind of believe, this in the same mindset as each other. And so when they, when they, when somebody asks them to do something, it's not like, oh, you're asking me this because of this. It's like, we're all in this together. They have this kind of togetherness, this mentality of all being in everything together. And that's one thing that we've lost in America is like, we just think that because somebody is asking us to do something is because, because they're different than us. And sometimes we can learn from each other's differences. And we can actually watch each other, watch another country. America doesn't get it all right sometimes. We can look at another country and see how they do things and say, you know what, they do these things right. And I feel like America is like a teenager. We just, we're just acting out, trying to find our own identity. And we're just all over the place. No country's perfect. No country does it all right.

Of course. Of course.

That's not, that's not even a thing, but But we can respect when somebody does do things and does respect each other and see how they do it so that we can learn from that, you know?

Yeah. Oh my God, this has been one of the best conversations I've had in a long time, you know? And it's just kind of nice to just really be able to kind of like roll up your sleeves and really talk about, you know, the shit that's going on. I mean, I can't even say it even better than that. Um, but I would like to end on a little bit of a higher note, you know, let's, let's talk a little bit about you and Eli. So you guys are engaged. And I know like having a wedding, probably, oh, what does that look like? Like, so what are your plans for actually tying the knot?

So we were going to have a wedding this year. We were going to have one in, um, well, first it was going to be June, then we changed it to July, and then we pushed it to, well, maybe October. And now it's like, well, we're going to have to wait till next year. Um, his parents are in Taiwan and so they would have to travel over. And there's just not, there's just, that's just not happening right now. So we're, um, and his sister's in Malaysia. So it's just to get the people we need to get over here, it's just gonna, we just put it off till next year. So, um, what we're considering doing, and I don't know, not a lot of people know this and we're not going to be very vocal about it, is, um, having a spiritual wedding where we, we spiritually unite.

Yeah.

Me and him and my pastor and, um, and live feed it to my, to my, our family so that, so that nobody is there. So it's like, it's fair to everybody.

Right.

Um, just have a spiritual wedding and then next year actually legally get married.

Okay. That's a great idea. And that way the two of you will feel like you are joined as one. That's incredible.

So yeah, so we wanted to save something for an actual wedding. So, but we're not going to like, advertise it to anybody. It's just gonna— it's— so if somebody's listening to this, they know. So you gotta listen to the end.

But I don't think Lily Watson will listen.

Well, she probably— yeah, she probably stopped at the Trump stuff. Yeah, she may listen to them.

Oh, she probably stopped at the Trump stuff. Oh God, what do you do with that?

Oh, oh, I don't even know.

Yeah, yeah, that's even Even harder when it's your mother. Wow.

Okay. It's a family, people. And I can understand where people are coming from. I can get it. But I, you know, Republican, Democrat, whatever you believe, that's up to you. But it's when someone is making the statements, supposed to be the leader of our country and they can't keep peace. To me, I don't respect that. I just don't.

I don't either.

Yeah. I am sorry about that to all my family that might be listening, all my church family that might be listening. I just don't respect the way he talks to people, the way he talks about people. And we need a leader who is an advocate of peace and love and not a leader— and knows how to be a leader. He may be a businessman, but he's not a leader, and he's proved that over and over.

Over and over again. Wow.

Yeah, I'm with you on that.

Oh, well, thank you. I'm glad we're on that same page. Okay, so if you could just one last— actually, just do two more questions. Let's say you did— you could wave a wand, and let's say you were going to live to be 100. What is something that looks impossible today that you would want to do before you know, you close your eyes. What's an impossible dream?

You know, I, I would, I would love it if I can get, I can get my sisters involved and have like a studio, a film studio, and just do films with them. Because my, my youngest sister does film makeup. She went to school for that. And then Krissa, Krissa is, she does acting, but she also does like film work and everything. And then Courtney, Courtney's really smart, she does the finances. And my dream would just to have a film studio and just—

the C. Watsons.

Yeah, and do something like that. And just do that with my sisters before I go. Whether they— they don't know this and they may not agree to it, but I'm pretty persuasive sometimes. Yeah, nice. Being the older sister. I love that.

I love that. So if someone wanted to get in touch with you, of course I'm going to have it down in the notes, but if someone was listening, how could they get in touch with you?

There's a couple of ways. If you go to my, my acting website, which is cassieshea watson.com, you can, you can contact me there. Or, um, I also, my Performers Edge Dallas contact, go to that website. You can also contact— there's a contact page on that website also. So there's a couple of ways. And yeah, and I teach acting online now mostly. Singing's harder. I usually do most of my singing in studio, but I'm doing it online now because of COVID But I teach acting online and I teach group acting online too right now. So I'm— if anybody's interested, I'm willing to take on. I have a couple more spots for a couple more clients. So if anybody's interested, that's nice.

I think that's incredible, you know, and I, you know, if I were a kid and I was in your area or even here, I mean, I'm just witnessing the drive and the passion and your dedication to your art and what you're doing for the kids. I would totally be signing up to take training, to get trained with you. So yeah, I think those kids are very fortunate, very very blessed to be working with someone who loves it as much as you do.

You know, in the past years I've been blessed to have the students that I have and the parents in the community that we have because I never charge for people to come see the plays. It's just all bond— it's all donation. And it's— and like every time I write a play and I do it, the community pays for it. Yeah. I don't ever have to charge and anybody can come to see see it, and whether they have money or not. And my students have been great about it, and the students' parents have been so on board with this concept and have been just driving it for years. And it's been amazing to see what my students are capable of. It's great to see what the community comes together to be a part of. And I love teaching. I love teaching. And I always wanted— you know, I think that you, Travia Steward, you inspired me from such a young age just to want to be the best I can be in whatever I am and never stop working. I think that's because you weren't the kind of person to give, you knew what pushed people's buttons. And to some people you would give them compliments because you knew they needed it, but for me, you knew I needed somebody to push my buttons to make me, to drive me. And when you talk about what you can see the potential a student and you see what they're capable of, you're also aware of what they need in order to be the best they can be. And for me, I just needed to be pushed and pushed and pushed, and it's exactly what you did for me. And you may not have been able to do that for other people, but it's what I needed. And so, um, seeing that in you, I see, you know, I take that kind of concept and I apply it to my students, and I— and that's where I see the most success, is knowing which students need to be pushed And sometimes knowing which students need to be told the truth and see if they can hack it. And sometimes, and I compliment the students that I know that's what they need, you know, but there's some students that just, hey, you're either going to be pushed to be better, you're going to be pushed out, and it's one or the other because some students can't hack it. It's a tough world.

It is, it is. Wow, thank you so much, Cassie. This has been an absolute blast. I feel like we really just caught up for like the last 10 years.

Yeah.

I know more about you today than I know about like some of the people that I like, that I hang around with. Well, not that anybody's hanging around with anybody right now, but you know what I mean? But I feel like we just really caught up. So let's not let it be so long.

Yes, ma'am.

The next time we, we get in touch, because again, there's always Zoom, right?

Right. Exactly. We're here.

Thank you so much, Cassie. I appreciate it so much. All right, guys, thank you so much for listening. If you want to know more about what I'm up to, head over to traviesteward.com. If you like seeing the videos of the podcast, every episode is on my YouTube channel. And if you like what you hear, please do me a favor and subscribe to the show. And remember, life is about connecting authentically, living with purpose, and having no regrets.

Grants.