Kennedy McMann--Nancy Drew

But when it comes to the supernatural stuff, especially when— and this is a whole part of just acting on film— is you just have to adjust to— you're looking at a, like, wall of technology. You're looking at giant light stands and cameras and people, and you're, like, doing this really intimate emotional scene. And it's just— you just adjust to finding your focus in really, really in situations that are very difficult to focus in.

My guest today is a graduate of Carnegie Mellon School of Drama, and she plays the lead role on the CW show Nancy Drew. Ladies and gentlemen, welcome today, Miss Kennedy McMahon. Hey, my guest is none other then Kennedy McMahon, Nancy Drew herself. Hi Kennedy, how are you today?

Hello, I'm very good, thank you. How are you?

Doing very well. Thank you so much for agreeing to this. I know that, you know, you have a very, very busy schedule, but I always like to think there's a little bitty place in your heart, just a little place for me that I hope will forever be there.

Much bigger than a little itty-bitty space. I can promise you that, and it will indeed always be there.

Thank you so much for that.

So it really is a pleasure. I'm just excited to catch up with you.

Nice. Me too. So Kennedy, so what my purpose is, you know, the, the podcast is called Work That Out. And so I think from the first time I met you, you've always had this mindset of you knew exactly where you were going. I mean, I just remember as a freshman in high school, you were so you were so completely driven. Like you almost knew that this was your predestined path and you had to do these 28 things to make it happen. How did you like develop such a growth mindset and that kind of mindset to know that this is what I want and this is how much I'm willing to work for it?

You know, that's a great question. Um, because I, sort of fell into my— well, I wouldn't say I fell into it. As a kid, I fell in love with acting and knew that that was what I wanted to spend my life doing. I was in— as a young child, I had very severe obsessive-compulsive disorder, and I think I found theater through a friend during that time. And so when I realized that at play rehearsal I could take my brain out and put somebody else's brain in and I didn't have to have my problems, it was, I like, it was addictive. It was therapy. It was, you know, it was an escape for me. And I just fell in love with like, ah, I wonder what this person's brain is like and how it works and how it's different from mine. And Right. I think that I just fell in love with it very quickly through that. And throughout that process of dealing with my obsessive-compulsive disorder as a kid, I think that really set me up to learn to be really self-reliant very early on in my life because I found out through that process that the only person— though I had a lot of help, my parents are extremely supportive and are a big piece of that puzzle and always will be. And therapy helped and, you know, all that sort of stuff. But at the end of the day, I knew it was up to me. I was the only one that knew what was going on in my brain and knew, you know, had the tools to rewire it to move through, you know, the severity of my OCD. And so I think that when something kind of shifted in the way that I approached planning and goals because I knew that the— that I was in control of it. So if I set my mind to something, I learned early on in my life that I could accomplish it even with it being very challenging. So I think that was sort of a setup, um, that then launched me into, okay, this acting thing is what I want to do. And then I also had the influence of, uh, my mom, who's an author, who who I watched as a kid, you know, go from being a real estate agent who wanted to be an author, you know, work all day and come home and write all night. And then, you know, eventually when I was in middle school was the, her first time she had any success at all. And then I watched her turn into an incredible bestselling author and to be able as a kid to watch your parents, you know, achieve such an incredible dream, it instilled in me, you know, so almost unintentionally, like, oh, if I want to be an actor, I can be an actor.

Absolutely.

Yeah, you know, so that obviously is a huge positive influence. Um, and there's just something about once I knew kind of the hard work that it took, seeing what my mom had done and my own experiences and different struggles in my life that I had gone through I think I just realized that I was like, okay, if I want this, then that— I have to be an active participant in this dream. I think a lot of, a lot of kids that have— and to no detriment of theirs at all— but you're like, oh, I want to grow up and be a pop star, so when I grow up, I'll be a pop star, but don't really take the steps, you know, once they're in a place that they even while they're still in school or whatever to kind of transition into, okay, what steps am I taking now to get to that place eventually? Because you already, you can start before you're a grownup, right? In my case, at least taking steps towards that. So I think a number of those things, I know that was a very rambly answer, but a number of those things I think all combined put me in a space where I knew how to work for what I wanted and knew that it was extremely active and required a lot of my time and a lot of my mental engagement.

Right.

So cool. Does that sort of answer that?

No, that totally answers it. And it also answers 3 or 4 other questions. So that's, that's what I love about it. You know, it's just a conversation. So, you know, I know that, you know, I follow your dad on Instagram and I think it's absolutely incredible. So when you contrast, like, you know, like my personal story, for one, like I didn't have the example of the parents that you have, you know, like, I never had anyone who made a lot of money. I never even had anyone who owned their own business, who did anything that would be considered great, you know, or highly successful. And so I think, you know, when you grow up in that environment, then it's almost like an expectation. Were there internal expectations that you felt that you had to do it?

I don't, you know, I think my parents have always been really incredible at supporting whatever it was that I was interested in, but there was never really a moment where I doubted whether or not it was gonna happen. I don't know if I left any room for that, and I, that comes from a place of being extremely privileged to have parents that instilled that in me, but I don't think I felt pressure from them. I think that they knew I was always very independent and that I would find my way, and not wherever that way was.

Not from them because they said anything, just because, you know, just the internal expectations, you know, oh, my mom's this, and yeah.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know that I did, to be perfectly honest. I just think that I knew. I just, I just knew it was up to me.

Yeah.

So if it wasn't a like, oh God, I really hope that it works out, or I'm afraid I'll be a failure, it was just sort of, well, you know, I— whether that's, you know, mentally, emotionally, physically, I have to be the one that makes it happen. Yeah, because nobody's going to give it to you. And obviously this comes from a lot of places of so many things lined up for me. There are so many actors that have the same amount of drive and the same amount of talent, or more drive, more talent, that it hasn't all lined up for them, right? So I, I come from a place of being— I totally acknowledge that. That I found myself in a situation where everything sort of aligned. If you have to prep yourself to be— not everybody's there, you know. You have the ability to put yourself in that position, but you can't control the other factors, right? So obviously that's a big part of my story. But yeah, I just always knew that it sort of would come from, from me. And so whether or not I was failure was Yeah, was up to me.

Incredible. Because, you know, something that— I mean, just the thing, the words that you're speaking right now, because, you know, in 2020, and, but, you know, to be honest, one of the reasons why I no longer teach is because students are different. We're, you know, they're much more entitled. They don't have necessarily the work ethic. Like, I remember just even in 6 years that you graduated, you know, how things have changed so much and that you have such a work ethic is just, and you continue to have that. How do you nurture your talent and stay on top of your game right now?

That has been like the topic at the forefront of my mind lately.

Really?

Because yeah, so I, this, I mean, this filming the first season of the show, has been a ridiculous test of everything that I'm made of. Everything. Every aspect of myself as a person. And has like, like the work is at the center of it, but there's so much expectation and so many other jobs that come along with that job that have nothing to do with acting, right? And so It's been an incredible, like, kind of journey to balance how do I continue to refine my craft and not collapse? Because it's been an incredible test of endurance. And thank God I have Sam, my fiancé, who is so supportive of me, who literally I could not have done the season without him. Because, you know, I have somebody who comes home and has done grocery shopping and has done, like, all the things. I literally work over 80 hours a week. And I'm gone a lot of weekends. So it's like I don't have the time to do that. So having his support is huge. But I, at the end of our season, before we ended up getting interrupted by the COVID-19 outbreak, but I was completely out of steam, completely. And I had like 3 episodes to film still. Wow. Had no idea because I was, I was at a place where I refused to sacrifice my work. I didn't want to sacrifice the quality, uh, of work I was doing as an actor. And so other things started to kind of fall to the wayside, which was I was probably a lot less pleasant to be around on set. I was exhausted and I felt really vulnerable And so I was dealing with like, oh God, I suck. Like I'm asked to do so much vulnerable work in front of the camera. And when you're like exposing yourself for hours every day emotionally, then when the cameras stop rolling, it's like, phoom, I don't have anything left. I can't, like don't talk to me, I can't. Just because you have to protect yourself. So it's been this weird thing where I feel like I admittedly, I think went, I could not do it all for that long. And I don't think anybody can really, from what was being asked of me. And I was being incredibly well supported and have a lovely team, but also a lot of people who worked on our show had said that they've never seen a number one work this much ever and be asked to work this much. So it was, it was sort of, I was kind of refusing to bend. At all, which I think ended up being a mistake because I was at a place where emotionally I was empty. I was physically not capable of continuing. Like when we ended up shutting down, I wasn't at work because I was, I was like medically exhausted.

Right.

And so it's been extremely difficult to find that balance for me because at the end of the day, I have to choose something to give away, and I still don't know the answer to that yet. I'm still really— it's so funny that you asked that question because it is by far the most prominent topic on my mind when it comes to going back to work. It's how do I find that balance again? How do I learn to ask for what I need? How do I learn to rely on other people more? Because it's not in my nature. Right. And so, and I think that those are the keys really is, it's kind of strange to say, but it's being okay asking for more, being okay asking again.

Right.

And you know, not like we were mentioned, we were talking about before we even started recording this, this prospect of we tell ourselves stories of why things aren't working or won't work. Before we ever really attempt, you know, actually trying. We've written it off already.

Absolutely.

And I think I wrote a lot of narratives of people won't like me if I don't spend a lot of time, you know, talking to them and whatever. When honestly, like, then I can't do my work if I spend all my energy socializing with people and giving to them and whatever in these moments when I really need to be conserving that energy so I can do my job the best way I can, the most efficient way I I can, which serves everybody in the long run so much more. Oh my goodness, forgive me.

That baby Otis.

Um, which serves everybody so much more when I'm capable of doing my job, you know?

Of course.

So it's a balance.

What was the thing? Was there one thing like, I have now become such a proponent for meditation during the day and it's, it's, you know, I feel like a little bit of a, uh, because I combine prayer and meditation because I think they can all go together. Some people are like, oh, that's sacrilegious. You know, I think they go together.

I can talk to Jesus. No, my dad's the same way.

Yeah. And so sometimes I pray right before I meditate, but I'm doing a challenge right now to where I'm meditating 3 times a day. I have found such clarity in that. Like, I mean, like I'm telling you, and that's why you kept coming up in my meditation. I was like, oh my goodness, because I'm learning to listen to my intuition.

A whole lot more, a lot better than I ever did.

And so is there something like one thing that you absolutely try to do your very best to put in some part of your day to make sure you work as best as you can?

Yeah. Um, I've actually recently started meditating like the last 2 weeks and it's, that's a whole other journey. Um, but I was very strict about my yoga practice in the morning because I obviously work very long hours and it's very tempting to choose 20 minutes more sleep than to get up and—

Yes.

And but I could always tell the difference in my work. It was a lot less grounded. It was a lot more effortful. It was just a little— it was just, you know, it just took more effort. It just was heavier. And so yeah, that was, that was a big thing for me mentally and physically as sort of more focusing on my acting work to serve my, my acting work than anything else.

Perfect. Tell me, let's talk about when you first stepped on to the campus of Carnegie Mellon. And I know you have always been pretty confident. I mean, you had a lot of success before. I mean, just getting into Carnegie Mellon Carnegie Mellon was like, holy shit, this is, this is huge, right?

Yeah. Yeah.

But tell me where your mind was like, cause sometimes it's like, ooh, you were a big fish in high school. Now you're a big fish being thrown into this lake with other big fish.

Right.

What was your mindset and how did you develop through that whole process of being at Carnegie Mellon for 4 years?

Like, did you have doubt in the beginning or were you confident?

Tell me about that mental process.

Yeah, there's a lot of things come to mind. First of all, I was confronted with a lot of people who were very different from me, who I had never really encountered before. People from very different backgrounds. That was a huge learning process in itself, which was an enormous gift because where, you know, where I grew up and where, you know, where we knew each other is a very small conservative place and is a— doesn't have a lot of variety. And so that was a big awakening for me. But then when it came to— I think the first half of my journey there was a lot about doing things for other people. Was how do I do this project to impress this teacher the most? Or how am I supposed to do it? You know, it was a lot of like evaluating what, what my professor or my classmates might think or what they believed it should look like or should feel like. And I found that that was really limiting me a lot. It was keeping a lot of my work at a very surface place, at a really controlled place. And that was something I know you, as my, my my acting teacher for so long, and it's still to this day probably my biggest issue is, is being afraid of letting go of control. It still is. I swear, I swear to you, all 4 years there, that's all I heard was like, we just need you to get messier.

Just let go.

That's always what you told me too. Um, is this just in my nature? Um, yeah, but Yeah, I think I found, I would say my biggest arc at Carnegie Mellon was learning to do something from my own instincts, from myself, for the product that I believed in instead of for what I assumed people would want from me or how to please somebody.

Right.

Because I was very addicted to pleasing people. I still have to rewire that. In my brain. Like I find I'm feeling like maybe just recently this experience shooting the season and kind of now coming down from it afterwards. My goodness gracious. And coming down from it afterwards has been a lot of finding out who I am and what it is that I want. I've been really throughout that journey really figuring out how to— my work got so much better once I stopped doing it because I thought it was what they wanted it to look like. And started, you know, really creating from who I am.

Right.

And that also, I think that in how I improved as a leader at work, you know, was when I stopped trying to be what I thought it should look like. Right. And just started acting from what I know to be true and who I know myself to be. So I would say that was probably the biggest takeaway from my time there. Yeah.

Tell me about, you know, like, I just remember Like, when you told us, like, oh my God, you know, like, we were doing the whole Tony nomination thing, and, and you were in the process of doing all the, the whole screening. Tell the audience a little bit about, you know, what that journey was like. Like, how did you get the role? You know, just, just because that's got to be the most exciting thing. You're just graduating and here you are. Yeah.

What was that like? So I went into that pilot season, um, being— for anybody who doesn't know, this, it's January through March where everybody's casting new projects, new shows, and that's where a lot of, you know, actors that don't have any name recognition can kind of get a foot in the door, um, and your chance at getting bigger roles than just you know, guest stars and things, right? So I was going into my first pilot season with my goal was to get a callback for something, and that would be like— because I had done a lot of auditions that, I mean, I heard— I had gotten to do Law Order: SVU was my like big job.

I still had that recorded.

Oh really? Yeah, that's so cool. I was so nervous. Oh my god, I was an absolute wreck. When I filmed that. But so I had had that under my belt, which was helpful. But my— yeah, I had done so many auditions that were just like crickets, which is so— I mean, very normal. It would have been really normal for that to continue going on for a lot longer than it did. But so I went to pilot season and I got— I had done an audition or two that had gone really well, and then I did the Nancy audition, and I, when I got that, when my agent even texted me that that role existed, that that pilot was being made, I mean, that was a dream come true for me. She was always, that character was always so highly valued to me, and when I read the script, I was like, oh my God, this girl is me. Like, this is how I speak, this is how my brain works, this is how, I mean, we're different obviously in certain ways, but our humor is very similar. I was like reading my own brain. And I was like, oh my God, I have to do this. I have to do this. And so I had auditioned and it went, I thought it went very well in New York, but they cast primarily out of Los Angeles. And I just kind of crossed my fingers and hoped that, that tape, that my tape would make it to LA. And that week I ended up getting 3 test offers for, in my first week of pilot season, um, which is—

yeah, explain what a test offer is.

Okay, so that's when essentially they fly you out to Los Angeles and it's when you're testing against like 2 or 3 other people for the part. So it's like you're down to— and you're testing in front of the executives for the network, um, and the studio. So it's like all of a sudden these people who are really influential know who you are, right? And that, that happened. I flew out to LA for 3 of those, which at the same time, which was really— I don't know what happened. I don't know what was in the water, but it just was like boom. And it happens in order of when you get the offer. So I had gotten an offer for a part, so it was in first position. And then I got the call for Nancy, so that would have to be in second position. So if I got the first part, I would have to take it, um, even though it— I would have preferred Nancy. And then I had a third test offer that was in third position. Okay. But because the first two shows were on the same studio, they let me switch them, which was very generous of them. They let me pick kind of so that, you know, because one was a great— it was a great part, but it was not, you know, I would have gotten swallowed by a cast of very well-known talented actors, and I would have been in this very side part of it, which would have been fantastic. That would have been amazing, but it was You know, also it was my dream character to play Nancy. So I went in for that. There are 3 other girls, um, there, and you're all in the same room. So everybody's there together and you're like, hey, we all look the same! It's like super weird. And like, all— like, everybody wants so bad, and like, it's just like so nuts out. And I found out later I found out later that they had auditioned 4,000 girls for this part, and I was like, you're joking. I didn't know that until after I got the part, which probably helped because if I knew that, I would be like, oh my god. Um, but yeah, so I went in for the studio, and then we just did scenes with the casting director, and they taped it. And, um, that night I ended up going in with the, uh, casting director for a work session. And with producers as well. And we like totally rejigged it. We did it entirely different way. 'Cause I wasn't coming across as youthful as they wanted me to, which has always sort of been my nature is I—

You've always been so super mature.

To my detriment in this game. But we, you know, we kind of played with some things and then I went the next day to, the network, so to the CW executives. So we're a production that is produced by CBS Studios but through the CW network. And then yeah, I found out later that day that I got the part. And it was like, I remember having a silent phone call with Sam, my fiancé, and we were just like, I was like, "Soy, I got it." And it was just like, everything had changed. Yeah, everything had changed. So yeah, it was, it was, yeah, so wild. It was so wild. And it was one of the things too that I have in writing a text to one of my, my very good friends, Mahala. Um, I texted her and I said, before I auditioned for the part at all, I was like, I don't know, I was like, Mahala, you just I'm, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this. Like, it's gonna work out.

You just felt it?

Yeah. Yeah, it was pretty magical.

Yeah, that's incredible. It's absolutely incredible. So let's talk about these— congratulations on the season being picked up for, like, the show being picked up for season 2. Thank you. Okay, so if I'm honest here, you know, I, I was never— I've never been a Nancy Drew fan. Because I'm so scary. And let me tell you, the first time Dead Lucy was on the ceiling, I just wanted to turn the TV off. And see, and see, Shelley likes that stuff because she likes to laugh when people get scared. And so it took me a while to deal with Dead Lucy. And so what I realized, so we got behind, like, you know, we watched like, I think the first like 5 episodes, like either the night or the next night. And then when life happened and we got—

oh yeah.

But let me tell you, the best thing was we caught up and just binged. That's what you need to do. You got to binge. And then I was like, because it's so— it's a long season. And with so much time in between, it's like, oh my God, well, what happened with this? I was so impressed with the writing. You know, I mean, just, just the stuff that they were, they were introducing in the very beginning. And then that whole— and girl, I'm sure everybody knows now, you know, the, the last episode that Dead Lucy— oh, I don't even know if I'm allowed to say it, you know, but Travia—

I mean, it's out there— that you're—

Dead Lucy is your mother and you're a Hudson. And so my, like Like, our minds were just blown. And so that cemented— like, we're going to watch every show because you're in it. But now, after having seen the season and the writing and how they introduce these nuggets and sew it all up, we're going to watch the show because we think it's a good show.

That's so nice. I'm so glad to hear that. Because I never— I mean, I have no desire to put any pressure on anybody in my life. At all to watch it.

Yeah.

But it's really, really cool to hear that. Yeah. Because I think it's really— we just have so much fun making it. And it's— yeah, everything, how it's interwoven is really, really impressive. I think the writers have done an excellent job setting— and it's all been planned from the beginning. I mean, very little of it is— wow. You know?

Now, you don't look like you're having a lick of fun in that character. I'm like, why won't they let Nancy have some fun?

Oh, God, tell me that.

I mean, you're laughing for 8 seconds. And then, you know, you're— again, it's like, holy shit. And you're in, like, almost every scene. So I get why you feel— so let's talk about, you know, I've always been a director who believes in, oh, the level of believability. What are you going to do to get into character? Now you're dealing with all these supernatural elements.

Oh, yeah.

I mean, I'm sure— is Lucy actually on the ceiling, you know? I mean—

No.

Right.

You know, it's really hard to make that believable. It's— that is, in my opinion, by far the hardest part of my job. And I, from the beginning, I was like— because I've always been really— I, I've always connected to— I've just always been very good at convincing myself that false scenarios are really happening to me. Um, I've never been somebody to be like, oh, I'm gonna think about that time that I was really sad. It was like, not about— it's not that. It's just like, I can You know, I just have— I think it's quite muscular of training yourself to just really buy in to your given circumstances. But when it comes to the supernatural stuff, especially when— and this is a whole part of just acting on film— is you just have to adjust to— you're looking at a like wall of technology. You're looking at giant light stands and cameras and people and you're like doing this really intimate emotional scene, and it's just, you just adjust to finding your focus in really, really, in situations that are very difficult to focus in, or very difficult to when you're on stage. I mean, that's, it's you and your partner.

Absolutely.

But on a film set, you know, it's, it's a lot of distractions, a lot of people. Yeah, the boom, and they're, they're going like all around your face. And you're like, you're like, just focus on the guy, angle of the, of like the camera, and you're like just working. You're— I mean, it's a dance with the camera, it's a dance with the lights, you're finding lights at different moments in here. Like, it's all— there's so much going on. So I think that just by learning how to do that, it helped with the supernatural stuff. But that stuff is still so hard because there's no grounding in reality. I have never seen a ghost. Personally, um, in real life, right? But it's— yeah, and it's a lot of pretending. You're acting to like a Tape X or, you know, the classic tennis ball on a stick or something.

Okay.

And you're just— you just kind of get— you just kind of— there's something about it that's very— that stuff is more outside in rather than inside out. Yeah, as far as an acting technique, right?

So where— but where do you go mentally when— I mean, because you have to pull a lot of tears in Nancy Drew throughout the season. And you always, like, you know, like when we're talking about you find out that, you know, that you're not a Drew and you had this bond with your mother who had cancer and you weren't able to say goodbye, all these things. Where do you go? What do you pull that from?

Yeah, um, I think I've developed quite a, uh, as time has gone on and like as you get to know the space that you're working in and the sets you're working in and places to hide and like things that work. And, um, it's taken some time for me to sort of refine that process, especially with different directors. Sometimes you have directors that come in that really throw me off, like really, I really don't click with, and that makes things very difficult, makes you much less likely to be available, to be vulnerable, because you don't trust someone, right, in the room who's really, really watching you. Um, so for me, a lot of it is because I spend so much time with this character. I— when I was filming the season, I was spending more hours as Nancy than I was as myself. So that, it became very real and very easy in a way to access the emotional life. But I always, I mean, I use music. I have, there are sets that I escape to. I always go, if we're filming in the studio, I'll go to Nancy's bedroom set and just live in that space, just be there. And, you know, thankfully we have an incredible department that has filled that room with actual stuff that if I open the closet, there's clothes in there, like, you know, there, and that's an enormous gift as an actor to have somebody real you know, all the stuff that a lot of the times you're just kind of filling out in your, your brain. But yeah, there is a sort of— when I know that one of those scenes is coming, it's sort of, how do I bring myself to be available to this reality as soon as possible in the day, right, so that it can sit and And this was the same for auditions too. When I was going in and doing auditions like for Law Order: SVU, you mean you go in there and you're all, you're in a scene and you're, I was sexually abused and I saw my fiancé murdered and blah, and you're right there and you have no time and it's just like boom, boom. And it's the same, I mean things move so fast on a TV set as well. So it's really about kind of allowing that to build as early on in the day as possible and letting it sit just right under the surface so that when the time comes, it's right there. And I really think that sort of emotional athleticism is also very muscular and was something that I think I learned a lot and worked on a lot in school, right, um, that I really credit my training to because it's exhausting and it feels like you have nothing. And sometimes it's just about how do I like reset and just think, I don't know what's going to come out. It's not about, for me, it's never about like, oh, I want to cry in the scene, you know, it's never about the product, right? But, but reeling back and taking everything away and going, okay, I just need to unzip myself and see what's really there.

Yeah.

And sometimes it's nothing, and that can be incredibly powerful because sometimes it's really nothing. And it's just, I remember there was a scene that I did, it was right at the end of our filming the season, and I was so exhausted, and Nancy was so exhausted. Like, it was insane, the stuff that they have put her through. As a character, it's crazy. And I was talking, thankfully I had just our most incredible director, his name is Larry Tang, he was our co-EP and producing director for a while. And he was directing that episode and he was, you know, he had sort of seen the scene in a different way that was extremely viable. But I was like, Larry, honestly, like, I am so tired. I am so exhausted. I just want this to be over. Not the whole—

Right, right.

Not the show, whatever, not that at all. But I was like, speaking sort of from a combination of where Nancy was and where I was, which was just like, I just think she's exhausted and she just doesn't know what to do with this. So she doesn't know how to handle it. She doesn't know how to approach— it was a scene between Nancy and Ryan, and it was like, she doesn't know how to approach this. She just wants it to be over, and like, she just needs to say it, and it needs to be done. Because that's how I was feeling. I was like, I don't have anything left. I just want this to be over, right? And he was like, that's, that's the whole scene right there. And that was the scene, right? And we figured it out because that's what it had to be.

That's perfect.

Yeah, just trying to learn, just learning to really listen. To yourself.

Yeah.

And use what you have when you have it. Cause a lot of times that's going to serve you way better than trying to make something.

Right. And speaking up for what you need because people don't know what you need until you tell them.

Yeah. 100%.

Yeah. So, oh my goodness, that's incredible. And so I, yeah, I can even think about the exact moments when you're like, this is it, you know, I'm done. You know, you're in that car with Ryan Hudson. You guys are at the railing. He leaves you there and it's like, what do you mean? I'm supposed to bring a blood relative here. Why is Ryan Hudson here? I'm done. Totally with you with all of that. Oh my God.

Yeah, and that was like the exact arc that I was talking about.

Yes, perfect. What is the biggest acting insight that you have gotten whenever, on set, at Carnegie Mellon, in your whole career? Like, had you known that earlier, things might have been a little different.

Great question. I would say if I hadn't— this is entirely props to you— if I had not gone into my time at Carnegie Mellon without having a really strong understanding of the incredible value of objective, that that is everything. Everything. Every— that's it. That's everything. If you know what you want, right, then you've cracked it. I mean, there's a lot more complicated than that, of course, but that was— that's the foundation of everything that I do still.

Wow, that's incredible.

Is what do I want? Yeah, and just fighting for it, and that's it. That's it. That's the whole thing. And then there's something that I learned. Yeah, exactly. And the obstacles fill themselves in, you know, as you go along if you're really that committed. And if you have— if you're lucky enough to have a partner, that's also equally committed to fighting for what they want. And thankfully, you know, I have a great cast who's really fun to play with in that regard. Um, but then also something that I always kind of retreat back to is, um, is— God, who's— whose book was this? I don't know why it's fallen out of my head. Um, but Where Is the Love is a huge thing too, because if you're entering a situation, even if conflict, there's no point in you being there or fighting for anything if there's not some element of love in whatever your character is fighting for or who they're fighting with, and never letting that fall away because then it becomes nothing. I mean, then it becomes pointless. This is a pointless fight that's just a fight for fighting's sake. And I remember that was something I was very, um, inclined to do, I think, a lot when I was in high school was whenever there was a chance to fight, it was about anger and it was just like boom.

You fought well.

I did, but it didn't— it wasn't— that's not like— it lost so much depth. And I mean, I remember two very specific circumstances in high school. In, in Augustus H. County.

I knew.

And, um, and in, um, Kentucky Cycle, where I— in, at least for the Kentucky Cycle specifically, there was a scene, the scene, the, the pots and pans scene. Yeah, I had to rally everybody who hated me essentially, um, to be on my side. And I— all we— all I ever could figure out with that was I was just like, just yelling at them. There was so much anger and so much like, why can't you see what I'm seeing? Right. And so I had no, I had lost the love. I had lost the love that she felt and why she was doing what she was doing. And the same with Augustus H. H. County and the same in a million things I did in college and still, you know, fail to do sometimes, you know, to this day. But when you reconnect with like, where is, how can you get to this person's heart? By using your own, no matter the circumstance of the scene, right? I think that will always keep the audience interested because they have to feel you caring. You have to really care. It has to have the stakes for you. So if your heart's not in it, it's just a fight for no reason.

Yeah, yeah.

And they— there's nothing to root for. It's just like, yeah, right, very people being angry. You know?

Right, right. No, I totally get that.

Yeah.

Because I remember for a long time, like, I didn't like your— like, I remember when, you know, when I cast you as Marianne Rowan. Like, that is— oh my God, I just love that show. And I remember, you know, it took you a while to find who she was and what she was all about. But when you found her, I just was like— because I think I kicked the chair that day, in a good way.

Yeah.

I was like, oh my gosh, you delivered this monologue. Just— it was just so— Yeah, I mean, I just—

I remember that day like the back of my— I actually told the story of that to Sam the other day because of a different— for a different reason. I don't remember the other circumstances involved with the other people in the room at that time.

So excited.

But no, it was amazing. But now I remember you told me, I think, 3 days before we opened that you didn't like my character at all. You're like, yeah, you're doing some good stuff, but I just don't like her.

I don't like her. I don't care if she wins.

Yeah, yeah. And you have to care. You have to care.

And that may—

and that's been a really tricky thing with, with Nancy too, because she can be very brash and, um, she has a lot of flaws. A lot. And I'm sure there are people that don't like her and don't root for her, but I, I think she has a lot of heart because it comes— all of it comes from deep, deep love and deep care.

Yeah. So just want to switch gears for a little bit. You know, I think it's so important that you surround yourself with people of a certain caliber. Now I don't mean like, you know, wealth or anything like that, but you are the average of the people, of the 5 people that you spend the most time with. How selective are you in the people that you do spend your time with, like your circle of friends? And what is it that you look for in them?

Yeah, I think quite selective. And I think it took going through— my experience at college was, you know, 25 of us together all the time, where we had to be committed to each other because we were it for each other for those 4 years. And there was something so exciting about narrowing that down after we all graduated. Because some of my very best friends in the world were in those 25 people, and some of the people that I truly detest more than anybody else in the world are in that group of people. And so it was very exciting, I think, when we graduated, and it was like, okay, who is it for me? And that's continually been refined, especially when this big change in my life happened, when I got Nancy and I went to film the season. Who I stayed in contact with, you know, and, and who I continued to revisit, that's narrowed down to probably about like 4 or 5 people, um, not including Sam and my parents and stuff. And it's really become something where it's like, I just do not have— and this is a lot of this has come from, from kind of trying to schlep off that desire to always be pleasing people. But I think so much of it is, is I just don't have the time for people that are not, you know, are not some sorts of joy to me, that don't reconnect me with who I know I really am. And that's, that's, I think, informed me a lot, as in, again, in this major life shift where I'm around a lot of people who only know me through the context of my job. Including my castmates and people on the crew. And, you know, some of those people are my closest, are in my kind of very close circle. But what I kind of found is I just want to be reconnected with the people who I know know who I am from at a very deep intrinsic level, right? Because they— and that don't have a— aren't viewing me through the lens of this job that I'm doing, but had known me because of, you know, what we've been through together. And yeah, it's been, it's been pretty massive because I've had to, I've had to learn through this whole process that I'm going to disappoint people. That I'm— I lost plenty of friends when this happened because it's also a matter of me and a group of friends who are all looking to accomplish the same thing, and this is the timing in which it happened for me. And that doesn't align with the timing in which it happened for other people necessarily, right? And so that, yeah, has just caused a lot of shifting in those relationships and kind of figuring out who really supports me very genuinely, right, person. So yeah, yeah.

And even as, you know, someone who's much older, that is such a vital role. Like It's in the last couple of years, I've sort of been doing a little bit of housekeeping because, you know, I noticed, you know, again, like I said earlier in the conversation that I didn't have these influences in my life, but I also realized that I— you are the average of the 5 people you spend the most time with, but I was a different person with every different group of people. Like sometimes I was the joking chameleon. Sometimes I was the vulnerable one. Sometimes I'm just, you know, this overly dramatic storyteller, but I was never this consistent person and I had such a hard time with it. And it, you know, the older you get, the more you just don't put up— you, you don't feel like you have to wear that facade as much, you know? And so I've just gotten to such a different place in my life to where so many things are so much more important now. And I only want to surround myself with people who are for me.

Yeah.

You know, and not people who I feel like, and I don't mean against me because they don't like me, but people who are going to nurture me. This is, you know, I had some, my friends are like, oh my God, you're going to do what? You're going to quit your job? Are you crazy? You know, what do you, what do you mean?

I wouldn't quit it now.

I mean, just all these things. No, I want people to go quit your job yesterday. You know, and so because I believe so much in what you can do, and so just, that's just so vitally important. So how do you, I know that it's important for you to separate your personal life and your private life, well, your private life and your work life, you know, but how do you stay on the, on, on, on, how do you stay out of choosing a side on controversial issues?

Oh, that's very relevant because I'm doing a lot of learning about what my place is and what I want to represent as a public figure, right? Which I'm not to, to a lot of people, but I am to some people, and I've kind of learned to acknowledge that. And it's definitely changing because I'm by nature a very open book. And I think I have leaned on the side of indulging in that because it feels— it's, you know, because I don't know anybody that's supporting me on these, you know, on social media, for example, like, I'll share everything I think with you. And that is not sitting right with me anymore, um, for a number of different reasons. Um, because I feel like, especially at work, I'm so exposed. I have nowhere to hide. Literally everybody knows where I am all the time and sees me in a lot of very vulnerable scenarios, right? Um, and it's starting to become— people really are very quick to expect everything from you. Very, very, very judgmental if you stop, right? Because then it means that you're— you must be doing something bad, like you had— like, or what, I don't know. People are so quick to assume the worst because— and I think, I don't know, I wouldn't necessarily call it a mistake that I I'm naturally very open on that platform, but I do see that changing because I want people, especially because I have a younger audience, I, my goal has always been to be truthful to myself, but also be trying to enforce as much positivity, try to be a place where people can come and feel comforted, not make it about— I just had started, like, I heard from a couple people like, I just really love coming to your Instagram page because it just makes me really happy. I'm like, that, that is so enough for me. Yeah, and it's really tricky because a lot you kind of have to choose. People expect also somehow, like, because I'm an actor, that it's my responsibility to have a very loud voice when it comes to social issues. For political issues. And there's absolutely room and space for that. And I am totally supportive of other people using that. And I spend a lot— I have a real kind of— for whatever reason, it doesn't feel right to me to be like, look at me and look at the things that I— look at what I care about and blah blah blah blah blah. Like, I'm an actor. And I love talking to people who love watching my show, but I want them to have a safe space to come because the world is absolutely bombarded with all of those. There are— there's no shortage of people sharing their opinions, right? None. On, on lots of different sides. And I think that that's great and it's incredibly important, and I work very hard to construct situations in my work to to end in my personal life and in the charities that I support and in the work that I do behind the scenes to support all of the things that a lot of those people are, you know, posting about on social media. To me, that can feel a little shallow. Not that those people— that's not saying that all the people that post those sorts of things are about that, but I just don't know if that's right now my place where I can feel like I, I feel like I have a lot more room to actually do things that I believe in and support things that I believe in using my time and my money and action. And I think that there's a little bit of pressure to just, I'll just repost this thing. Here's this picture.

Here's what I stand for.

Right, without actually ever backing it up.

Right.

And there's absolutely incredible, uh, use to bringing light to situations and, and, and just general people talking and educating other people. That's a fantastic thing. It's critically important. But like I said, I feel like that market is flooded, and I think that there is use for a place where people can go and just have— not be bombarded with that.

Yeah.

And be like, this is the girl who I follow because she's Nancy Drew.

And I don't—

like, that's kind of why I came here. And yeah, okay with that, right? Because I feel so pulled in so many directions and it just feels like nothing will ever be enough. So I just have to kind of make a choice of how— what do I want to present to the world? What function do I want to serve, right? And being okay with that and understanding the value of serving, of different people serving different functions, and not everybody can do it all, literally can't, and that there's value in, you know, all sorts of things. So, right, that was really long-winded, but that's just very much on the top of my mind right now.

No, totally get it. Yeah, thank you for sharing that. And, and I, you know, I I feel like you've always been an open book. You've always been, but yet there comes a time where you have to protect yourself. You have to set those boundaries for your mental wellbeing, for, you know, so that you can be Kennedy, you know, Sam wants Kennedy. Sam doesn't want Nancy Drew, you know, those types of things.

Exactly.

So congratulations on your engagement. I don't know if, I mean, I think I texted that to you, you know, because I think, you know, my top two values are love and connection. And I believe we were put on this earth so that we could connect authentically with other people.

You know, you and my dad are so alike.

I need to spend more time with that man, but you really should. But they moved, and then he turned your bedroom into a book closet or a library.

A library.

I just have two more questions for you. So who is the actor that you hold in the highest esteem that, oh my goodness, if I could just work with so-and-so that's the icing on the cake.

I would say I, I'm not like super quick to become like mega fans of anybody, but Florence Pugh is probably that person for me right now. Are you familiar with her? No. So she most recently and like most significantly was in the newest adaptation of Little Women, but I think she's, she's very young, um, She's just a little bit older than me, and that she's just incredible. She's very grounded in a way that the, the kind of a big acting focus for me in more recently, um, has been just trying to remove affectations that protect me, that are, are like self-defense mechanisms, right, from being like truly open. And that, whether that's a vocal affectation or a physical gesture or something, she's very, very good at just being, which is so, so difficult. So difficult. But it would probably be her.

Nice. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. So let's say you're going to live to be 110. Before— yeah, that's a long life, you know. And some people, I'll ask and they go, I don't live to It doesn't have to be that long. And I'm like, I do, 110 baby, here I come.

You can do it. I can do it.

What is an impossible dream that you would like, like it doesn't even have to do with acting, but what's an impossible thing that today you can't even make that happen, but with some time you would love to be able to have done what with your life?

Ooh, I feel entirely disconnected from any sort of creation with my hands. I don't feel capable of doing, of making anything physically. So I think in some beautiful retired life, I would just love to be very— I've also lived a lot in cities. I would love to be very disconnected. And maybe have some sort of nice pottery— cheese farm. That's actually— it's very appealing just to feel self-reliant in terms of— I'm just so adjusted to everything's very instant, everything's very readily available.

Yeah.

And I feel so disconnected from the creation of it all, and I think I would love to reconnect with what it actually is to curate something.

Yeah, oh, that's powerful. I love that because, you know, it's like, would you say that you've achieved your definition of success so far?

Yeah, yes, I mean, there's lots, there's a lot more places I want to go.

Of course.

I got a lot of bigger dreams on the table, but I always said, as far as in acting, dream was I wanted to be on a television show that meant something to people. The other acting dreams that I have too, but I think it kind of came down to that. And I just wanted to have a lot of fun, I wanted to enjoy it because there's so much, you know, a lot of, so much like torture, like emotionally, and a lot of work. And there's— I love that too, don't get me wrong, but I wanted to at least have fun.

Right.

Um, and I have most definitely achieved those things. Um, and as you know, I, I completely am in alignment with you regarding what really, what's really important, you know, what really matters, which is developing relationships that are really meaningful to me. And the relationship that I have with Sam is, is the best part of my life.

Oh, that's incredible.

And still is, you know, it's still my what I consider my greatest success and accomplishment and is the most satisfying thing to continue to work on. So nice.

Thank you for sharing that because I mean, again, love, it just, you know, it's, it's, it's not oversaid that it makes the world go round, you know?

Yeah.

So I just, I just want to close by with, um, whenever I talk to my friends Val and Kevin, your name will come up. And I think that is because you've always been such a genuine person, you know, like you're saying, you know, I need to learn how to say no, but you've always been so giving of your time. You've always like, you genuinely were sincere in every interaction and you give so much of yourself to where I know that that's hard to, as you get older, more things will be demanded of you. But that's one part of Kennedy that I hope forever stays within you and your soul and that you just, you just keep that part so precious right here.

You know, I appreciate that so much. Thank you. So thank you. And thank you for saying that.

Absolutely. So thank you so much for doing this, Kennedy. It just means the world to me. So thank you.

Really, it's a pleasure. This is so much fun. And thanks for listening to me babble on. I clearly had a lot to say.

You know, you know, and we often do, but these are the kinds of conversations that I would, I love to have with everybody, you know? And like, I feel like that was one reason why I said, oh, I gotta start choosing different friends because sometimes I would want to have these kinds of conversations. They'd be like, why are you asking me that stupid question? Don't be so nosy. And I was like, I'm just trying to get to know you on a deeper level, you know, what's wrong with that? Ah, that's a stupid question, you know. And so I was like, ah.

And it just like, it allows you to grow. I mean, even just in these, as I've kind of answered these questions, it's like just helping me navigate it mentally too, where I, where I, cause I feel like I'm right now in a, in a period of like such extraordinary growth and I am not quite sure where I stand on a lot of things. And I'm really in the middle of a lot of processes, I feel. And so to be given the chance to talk it through, it's such a gift because it really, really helps me kind of make connections and tie things back to one another and kind of find out where it is, where I'm really at, you know, without external influence. So yeah, it is extremely helpful to me. Yeah.

And so the very final thing that I would ask, what it seems a little silly to ask with you is like, where can people connect with you? Well, we all know where to connect with you, but any other place, you know, I know cause I follow you on Instagram. I mean like your website, where else could people connect with you?

Instagram is definitely the best place. I'm kind of on and off Twitter, so that's not really very reliable. Um, but yeah, mostly Instagram. That's pretty much it. And then you can watch Nancy Drew on HBO Max. You can stream it on HBO Max out now or on cwtv.com.

Yeah, who knew I would be a Nancy Drew fan?

Who knew?

Who knew? I didn't know. Yeah, I can't wait for season 2, but I do know that what I, what I'm gonna do next season is I'm gonna watch the first half, then I'm gonna wait, then watch the second, because I, yeah, I need to binge them. So I like—

Oh yeah, I totally understand that.

Yeah. Yeah.

Cool.

All right. Thank you so much, Kennedy. I appreciate it.

My absolute pleasure. Thank you.

Okay. All right. Hi to Sam and look at that baby.

Look at that baby. Wiped out.

Oh my goodness. Okay. All right. Have a good night. Thank you. So good to connect with you.

Give my love to Shelly.

I will. If you like what you're hearing and perhaps you're interested in having a complimentary conversation with me. Click the link at the bottom of the show notes. Thank you so much for listening. If you even want to know more about what I'm up to, head over to traviestewart.com. And if you like seeing the videos of the podcast, every episode is on my YouTube channel. Take care, guys.