Navigating Change in Life

Navigating change in your life. Let's face it, change, especially big change, can be really difficult. If you do not change the direction you're going in, you may end up heading where you're actually heading. And most of us really don't want to end up where we're heading. On today's episode of the Reinvent You Podcast, we delve into how to navigate the cycles of change, The importance of reinventing yourself ever so often, maybe every 10 years. And then advocating, self-advocating, and living with health issues, actually integrating and accepting it rather than fighting it. Ladies and gentlemen, my guest today is an adventurer, a complete total badass, and a life coach who helps other powerful coaches sign their first client and create the business of their dreams that also supports their health. Ladies and gentlemen, I'd like you to welcome my friend Danielle Lindblom. Hi, Danielle.

Hi, I'm giggling at Trey's announcer voice.

I'm a huge fan.

I could not pull that off.

He's a gentleman. There we go. There we go. So if we're going to jump right into it, I like to give, you know, some weight to who the audience, who the guest is today. And so if you could kind of, you know, give us a snippet, give us the Cliff Notes version. Of Who is Danielle?

Oh my goodness. I was really excited about this because this is about reinventing yourself and I have been a change agent my entire career. I am a huge fan of change. I need to make that onto a t-shirt because I am definitely not the typical human being. I'm a big fan of change. I grew up in small town Minnesota. And I went to the U of M, uh, in the Twin Cities. That was me moving out of small town and into the big city. Um, and yes, I got a degree in mechanical engineering. I also went, um, gangbusters on resume building and I did 4 internships during college, all of which were in engineering or manufacturing type stuff. And then change really starts getting geared up because I joined a company and a program that intentionally moves you 3 times in 2 years where you have a different job role in a different business unit, different part of the company, and a different geographic location every 8 months. So I lived in Tennessee, Vermont, Wisconsin, and then with the same company, once the program was done, I went back to Vermont That whole time I was doing basically engineering-type tasks in a manufacturing environment. I worked for a very large aerospace company. They made just about anything that goes into an airplane, not airplanes themselves. And yeah, lots of technical nerdy stuff. I was basically a process engineer, glorified one, and my job was to make processes more efficient. Was in Vermont for 2 years. Then I came back to Minnesota, changed companies, um, got laid off in 2017, which was a blessing in disguise because I was struggling majorly. I'm sure we'll talk about that at some point today. And at that point, I went full-time with my then side business of dog training. And there's your first hard right turn. I did that for another 3 years before transitioning into life coaching. Left turn in there. And now I'm sitting in Missoula, Montana. I've been here since May and I'm a full-time life coach. And yeah, like that's basically the Cliff Notes, like the most condensed version of all the changes that I've made in my life.

Perfect, perfect.

In the past decade or so.

Okay. So Danielle, how do you actually become a huge fan of change? Most people hate that shit, but you're like, I'm a huge fan of it.

I am a novelty junkie in some ways. I really enjoy fresh starts. This is actually becoming more and more integrated into who I am. The leadership program was a big introduction to this concept because I would come in, have a very dynamic role for 8 months, and then pass that off to somebody and move on to the next place. And I never knew where they were moving me. We didn't get to pick. So it was like, all right, you are going to Vermont. So I would pick up and I would move to Vermont and I would meet a whole bunch of new people and live in a city I've never been in before, in a state I've never been in before. And I really, really enjoyed it. And basically continued that after the program was over. So not only have I geographically relocated many, many times, I'm a huge fan of moving. Also strange, you think I'd have done it enough that I would be sick of it, but I really enjoy like exploring new places. And my entire career was in change. Like I was the person hired to come in and literally flip things upside down. To completely reinvent processes, completely reinvent the way that people were doing things with their assistance. But I had to be the person to lead that and to encourage the people whose world was going to turn upside down to help us with the process.

So that's pretty cool because, you know, most of us get stuck in our own boxes because of our thinking, our beliefs, and our perspectives, and all the things that, you know, are familiar to our subconscious. But shit, I don't think you ever allowed it to get— become routine, become familiar. So I can see why, because you were so— you were changing so rapidly. Like, I had another one of my friends on the podcast a couple weeks ago, and she was like, you know, just like you, I'm just gonna go to these places where I've never been. I want to move. She goes into her boss's office and says, just so you know, I'm someone who is up for traveling no matter where it is. I'm up for it. And I feel like that too. And I feel like that's such, you know, a great thing for you, especially as a coach, because even in my coaching, sometimes I find it hard to go, okay, be objective, think outside the box. Don't project your thinking onto this, but I feel like your thinking hasn't had time to cement at all. Would you say that's correct?

Yeah.

Every, Every superpower—

eh—

every superpower has a dark side.

And for me, like I've talked about relocating, moving, but I have also been very multi-passionate. I have changed hobbies about every 10 years and I go very deep into a certain area. I get to mastery and then I switch to something new. And that's happened both in career and in personal hobbies. And the dark side of that is I don't allow myself to enjoy the season of mastery. Like, I am constantly resetting myself into a new environment, a new beginner level, and that can be incredibly frustrating.

Yeah. Where do you think that seed was planted? Was that like something familiar from your childhood? Because I mean, that seed had to have been planted somewhere. That you're like, oh, I'm going to set this goal. I'm going to run 90 miles an hour. I'm not going to enjoy it, but I'm going to, I'm going to go for it. And so what can you relate that to a part of your life?

I've always been incredibly passionate and it just seems to shift areas, you know, once I've achieved mastery. So I've always been, um, a horse kid, like deeply, deeply obsessed and passionate about horses. And I, I manifest that, like I made that happen, that came into my life. I did that. Okay, that's one where I was kind of forced to move on for a variety of reasons. But I've also been a dancer for 8 years. I have, um, competed in dog sports and been a professional dog trainer. And now I'm entering life coaching. And for all of these things, like, I will get to this level of mastery, and sometimes it'll be boredom, right? Like, I want that— there's, there's so much novelty in learning, right? So every time I'm continuing to learn or deepen my knowledge, it satisfies that need for novelty and, like, sexy and fun. And when I find that things start to repeat themselves or they're becoming predictable, it's not as much fun for me anymore. And so something new and shiny will catch my attention.

Yeah.

And I'll take that left-hand turn.

Squirrel!

Yup. And find myself at the beginner again.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

At some point, I'd really like to make it a point to enjoy the fruits of my labor and like stay at the mastery level for more than like a hot minute.

Okay.

That's my next goal.

Okay. Sounds good. So something that I want to delve into is what you said, because I have a lot of non-coochie people who listen to the podcast. So you said, I manifested that. So when I use words like manifest, like my friends are like, woo-hoo, go in your little, your little weird room and woo-hoo.

What do you do?

You look at it, you visualize it. Really? That shit don't work is what they say. You know? So people, so tell me just a little bit without giving away your whole kitchen sink, you know, what would you say your process when people, when you when you say I manifested that, like what did you do to bring that into fruition?

So this is where you and I have a lot of fun because we're both the same personality in this. I rarely use that word. I am not a woo-woo person. When I say manifest, I literally mean like I make shit happen.

Okay, okay.

If there's something I want, I fucking go get it.

Right. Okay.

So no, yep, there's no closet woo-woo.

Okay, so this was not Law of Attraction, you see it, none of that. Okay. You're like, okay.

I grew up learning hard work and I grew up in a family-owned business that was literally my family. No other employees.

Right. Right.

So you go make it happen.

Yeah. Well, thanks for clearing that up because I totally went down the woo-woo lane when you said manifest. Absolutely. So there you go. Okay. So let's talk a little bit about your dog training. Like, you know, are we talking about, you know, sit, Ubu, sit, you know, are we talking about, you know, Oh, like, what is a dog trainer? Because I have another coach friend who was in Hatch with me that she uses horses. As far as she's a life coach, she uses horses to like help, you know, change people's behavior. Is that how you're using dogs? Or is it just like, you know, teaching the dog not to go make pee pee in the house? Like, what is the extent of your dog trainer and behaviorist?

This is a little bit like being a physician and answering questions at a cocktail party. Like, there's so much about the world of behavior. Um, like, I went all in, so I was a professional behaviorist for 5 years, and there is so much complexity and so much structure and knowledge in the world of animal behavior that is also very connected with human behavior. Um, but there's a lot of nuance in there and there was a lot of education. There was a lot of practical knowledge and we have to constantly, and I say we as like professional behaviorists have to constantly fight what's being put on popular media and sort of glamorized and glorified on television as dog training and behavior, um, I would have to fight those battles all the time, like, in the real world with people who see things on TV, think that that's dog training, try it, and make things really, really worse. Um, so what I did as a behaviorist— yes, I know how to teach skills, right? So sit, stay, all of that stuff, I can do that. My dogs are highly trained in those areas, and I judge obedience. What I did was more complex in I was helping one-on-one owners in their own home with significant behavior issues that their dogs had. Most of the time, this is what we would call reactivity, um, so barking and lunging on leash, whether they would see a dog or a person. This would sometimes happen when people would come over to the house as well. Sometimes it's called leash aggression. Aggression is a very, very fuzzy word.. And if there's one thing I would want people to know about behavior, it's that the best thing you can possibly do for yourself, for your animals, for those you're communicating with, is to describe the behavior you see, not to make assumptions, not to call it something, not to guess, but describe the behavior you actually see in front of you. Like, what is the dog doing? Not what do you think its motives are, you know?

So Let's, let's, let's pull out an example. Like, I have a little Yorkie, Yorkie Pew. She's the cutest thing ever. I love her. I, you know, and, you know, she pulls on the leash sometimes. If there's another dog coming down the street, you know, she'll, you know, lunge, you know, what you said. So, so behaviorally, what would you uncover in that behavior?

Well, I'd need to observe that particular behavior.

Oh, the type of lunge.

Yep, because it can be arousal-based. It can be purely seeking reinforcement.

Okay. Okay. Let's, let's say for an example it is arousal-based. What do you do with that?

Yeah, it's all reinforcement. So all creatures intrinsically have two motivators. We seek pleasure, we avoid pain. That's in the hardwiring.

Right.

And the majority of all behaviors can be attributed to that. Where things get a little bit nuanced in what I was doing with, um, reactivity or aggression cases is an emotional response. So animals will get triggered just like people do, and we can't understand all of the motivations underneath, like what your dog is experiencing, what your dog is feeling or thinking. But what we know to be true is if we place another dog in your dog's eye line, the response will be immediate. Okay, if it's reactivity, if it's coming from that, um, fight-or-flight response, right? If your dog is just checking it out and kind of, you know, thinking about it, then we're probably just looking at reinforcement, like arousal.

Okay, is there any aspect of your dog training that you use in your life coaching today?

I'm actually just starting to explore it because it's been very compartmentalized in my brain. Um, I'm sure I've been doing things like subconsciously, um, without realizing it, but I'm actually starting to take a more conscious approach to how can I actually apply the things that I know about behavior. And like, I had all kinds of um, programs and, um, procedures.

Okay.

Yeah, methods, methods, framework. Yeah. And how can I use those, um, with people? And there is one, like, basically there are so many overlaps between animal behavior and psychology because we both have brains, right? And brains tend to operate similarly. One of those ways is changing a behavior when there is an emotional component. And there are usually two ways of doing this, and these are talked about both in animal behavior and psychology. One is, in the animal world, we would call flooding, and I think they do use that term in psychology as well.

Yeah, in relationship coaching, yes.

So flooding is if there's a stimulus that produces an emotional response You can either— this would, you know, lay terms would be like face it head-on.

Yeah.

You know, if you're terrified of heights, go skydiving. Like, that's flooding. That's immersing yourself in the stimulus.

Absolutely.

To the point that it overwhelms the nervous system and eliminates the response. It can be very uncomfortable, right? It's not always recommended and it's not always effective, but that is one way.

Yeah.

Another way, which is what I did primarily with my dog training, is gradual exposure therapy. So you expose the animal or the person to the thing that— the stimulus that produces an emotional response. I'm going like super technical here. In low doses, right? So for the dog, that would be at an incredible distance away and with neutral body language. So low intensity, right? And then we would play with those two variables and also be providing a ridiculous amount of reinforcement when that stimulus was exposed. So for a dog, for example, this would be— I would set up the owner and the dog in a nice calm place on leash. As soon as the stimulus dog was presented, the owner was instructed to feed their dog. Right. So this is classical conditioning. When you are in the presence of another dog, good things happen.

Right.

So we're building association. And very low increments of time. So then we would take the stimulus dog away. We would give the other dog a break for the nervous system, decompress, just like people. And we would repeat that slowly decreasing distance. And then also slowly increasing the level of intensity of the stimulus dog. So you would have a dog just laying down. Versus a dog walking around versus a dog making eye contact versus a dog barking and running around, that sort of thing.

Okay.

What it would look like with a coaching client, gradual exposure therapy would be something like public speaking, right? Something that elicits an emotional response in the person. You could just like, you know, get thrown out onto stage and you have to stay there until you're not having a panic attack anymore.

Your sympathetic nervous system is going crazy.

Yep.

Or you would do like, what would it look like to set up a gradual exposure therapy for that situation, right? Like, how can you take the behavior and break it down into little pieces, build in lots of reinforcement, and change the behavior?

Love it, love it, love it, love it, love it, love it. Okay, thank you for finishing the arc of that. So, all right, let's talk a little bit about Danielle, one thing that I've always admired in you, and I don't know how it happened, so I just want to delve into it. One thing I've always admired is that you have no problem sharing the messy stuff, like on social media. I mean, just whatever it is. But on the opposite side of that coin is you have a hard time sharing your brilliance. How do the two of those work together, and how did you get to a point to where it's so easy to share your messy stuff, first of all?

How beautiful and quintessential is it that I literally demonstrated my reluctance to share my brilliance?

You did, you did.

Not 10 minutes ago. Yeah, I was like, I don't want to talk about that thing that I'm really good at, right?

But it was so good, right? So good. Yes.

Ah, um, things have changed Like, I mean, we're talking about reinventing yourself. Yeah, things have changed so significant for me since leaving corporate. I never felt like I fit in to the corporate environment. I grew up in a family-owned business, like it was me and my dad at the shop working, and also at the same time was growing up riding, showing, and training horses. Like very, you know, get in and use your elbow grease and, you know, dive into things and all these environments that are very plain speak, right? Like when you're working with your hands, when you're doing physical type stuff, you just tell it how it is. And when I got into corporate, I walked into this culture that was completely foreign to me and I stumbled a lot. A lot. It was unnatural for me to learn how to think of, like, craft my words, think about how to say something in a certain way. I'd never really had to worry about perception before. And that became, that was made abundantly clear to me by HR that perception is very important in corporate America. That we have to worry about what other people think about us. Especially because I was on a leadership track. That was emphasized all the more. Um, so I, I got good at it. Like, I learned it as a skill, but it was never integrated. It was like me putting on clothes, putting on a persona, and going to work and, and doing those things. So since leaving there, I've shed so much of that anxiety. And it's felt liberating and terrifying, like, to run a business and to have to put yourself out there on social media because you need awareness that your business even exists. I started a personal blog in 2016, and it was like I finally had this freedom that there was no one looking over my shoulder as to what I was saying. Part of the freedom in, in the messiness, like, extremes, right? The pendulum swings. I went from feeling like I had duct tape over my mouth in corporate to once I was laid off and I made the decision I wasn't going back, like I swung all the way to the other side where I was like, oh my gosh, this freedom is amazing and like fuck corporate and like fuck that whole thing. Like I'm gonna say whatever I want to say. And I burned some bridges and I stated my opinion and I swung the pendulum the other way. And now, I'm trying to come back to the middle and, you know, share some of my brilliance as well as the messy. But yeah, the sharing of the brilliance is a little bit difficult because I feel like people won't understand. And it's the same reasoning why people are reluctant to share their messy, right? They're like, people aren't going to understand what my— this is messy for me. Right.

Wow.

And, you know, and I'm just the opposite. I will share my brilliance first before I open up and share my innards, you know. And so that's why it's, it's quite the opposite there.

I'm also, I'm also more concerned with— so part of sharing the messy is like dying before you go into battle. It's the, if I show you my deepest, darkest secrets, you can't hold them against me. Right? Because I'm volunteering my messy, and now you can't, like, attack me for that. You can't hold that against me. But I'm more concerned about how people will respond to my brilliance because I'm more attached to my brilliance. Like, what if people don't understand that? How is that going to make me feel? And feeling misunderstood, perhaps. I don't know. It's very interesting.

Right. So I feel like you're someone who has, you know, you are an advocate for change. You love change. You're a change agent. Gent, you know, you didn't really stay still long enough in order for things to become so familiar. But yet on the brilliant side, there is a little bit of some beliefs that have kind of cultivated that are becoming a pattern in your life. Maybe what we would say, you know, I don't want to share the burden. So I feel like you've shared everything on the vulnerable side. What are those limiting beliefs and perspectives that are keeping you from sharing equally and balancing that on the brilliant side?

It's a lot of the same reasons why people would be reluctant to share their innards. It's, you know, fear of being misunderstood, like people aren't going to get it, and fear of dissent. Because if I stand behind this and say, this is what I believe, this is my brilliance, because it's not widely understood, like, that's why it's brilliance, right? Because it's something that I've been studying and I've been going deep on and nuancing. Inherently, other people aren't going to understand it to the same degree of depth.

Right.

And so because of that, I get afraid of, um, people pushing back against it simply from ignorance. Um, having to deal with that. I hate explaining myself like we saw earlier.

Well, you—

like, well, if you don't understand this, then I don't want to talk about it, you know? And it's— it is incredibly arrogant-seeming. And that has been with me my whole life, like, because I like to go deep on topics. And so when I do that, I'm going to understand things at a different depth and level than the people who are curious about it. And so sometimes, yeah, I get frustrated or whatever else, and I come across as arrogant, and it just builds up more evidence for why I shouldn't do that.

Okay.

Why I shouldn't share that.

Right, right, right. Thank you for sharing that. So, you know, the previous name of my podcast was Work That Out. I still love Work That Out. You know, it's been my mantra. You know, you want to get shit done, you work that out, right? So I believe that everybody has a work that out story. You know, there's some point in your life where you were like, I don't know how in the shit I'm going to get out of this. There's no way out. There's no light at the end of the tunnel. What would you say was like your most pivotal moment, your work that out story that helped to mold you into the person who is sitting before me today?

I really want this to reach out and touch somebody because I know very vividly and can recall what it felt like to be in that stuck place. And it's so easy on the other side to sit here and talk about what life is like now. And I, I don't want to lose sight of how intangible that's going to seem to the person who is in the shit right now. Like, I never want to lose sight of that, that we can say it's hard, we can say it's easy, we can say anything at all that we want about the transition from being in the shit to being on the other side, and it's not going to seem accessible. So what I'd want to say to the person that's in the shit who can't see the other side but wants to believe it's possible, that it is actually easier than you think. It is okay that you don't see the way yet, and you're not going to until you get to the other side. Like, that's the secret. Some people do make a big leap, but that big leap is the result of many, many tiny steps in advance of the leap. So I just want to encourage, find the next tiny step. And that tiny step might just be dreaming. It might just be researching. It might just be listening to podcasts like this one. Like you're introducing possibility. And that's an absolutely essential step to getting from where you are to where you would prefer to be. And I know I totally just sidestepped around your question, but I can go back to that. I just really—

Well, no.

Pulled to say that.

Yeah, no, hey, I appreciate you sharing that. Now I feel like because you were so clear in your message, I feel like you have a very specific example of when you were in the shit. So yeah, so tell us about some shit you went through and how you swam out of that. How did you work that out?

We're gonna have to come up with a new metaphor. This is too much shit.

There's a lot of shit there.

It is.

This is really turning into a pile of shit, Trey.

Right, right, right. But it's gonna be good shit.

This is the good shit right here.

This is the good shit, right?

Oh man, now we turned it on. Um, so yeah, this specific thing, I, I struggled mightily in corporate, um, to the point where like the last 2 years I was having panic attacks at work. I was hiding in dark conference rooms, sitting on the floor, on the phone with my dad. I was fighting to go into work. The stress was making me physically ill. I was taking mental health days and calling them sick days because there was no structure for that. And I felt ashamed that everything seemed like it should be easy and it wasn't easy for me. I had no boss. I had no direct boss for 6 months of my time there because they couldn't fill the position. So I felt unsupported. The culture was not great. Um, and I didn't know how I was going to keep going one more day, much less like multiple years of this career. At the same time, I was doing what I was passionate about on the side. So I had dog training, I had the business, I was competing with my own dogs. It was kind of through a series of doors opening and me choosing to walk through them. So I see doors opening as the metaphor for possibility, right? Maybe you see something on TV and you're like, wow, I would love to do that, or you hear a story or you read an article or a blog post For me, I was watching a— it was a documentary on Netflix, and it was these two brothers that were visiting national parks, and they went to Glacier National Park in one of the videos, and they were doing Going-to-the-Sun Road. And I remember just sitting there going, I really want to do that, like in my bones, like I really want to do that. And that was the door opening of possibility. And then I walked through it. Like, I requested the vacation time at work. I planned my route. I did very little planning other than getting in the car and going. And that sort of started this cascade of dominoes. What you can't unsee possibility, and you can't unexperience possibility. Like, what would it be like to truly do what I'm passionate about for a living? I ended up coming home, starting my personal blog and was watching TED Talks on YouTube. Saw this one woman who said, your life is your resume. Like all of the experiences in your life contribute to your skills and expertise, not just what's on your resume.

Right.

And I was like, okay, this lady's fascinating. I go to her website. She's doing some sort of group coaching thing for free. I'm like, great, give me the phone number. I jump on. There are 3 people there and I get coached. I was expecting to be the fly on the wall. And I hired her as a career change coach. And it just, it's like once one domino fell, the next started falling. And while I was working with her, I got laid off. While I was working with her on a transition plan, to go from corporate to small business owner. I got laid off and it was, oh, I got severance and everything. The universe was like, let me just give you a boot here. You're taking too long. You're hemming and hawing over this. Just get going.

Right.

And that just, like everything flows from there. But it was that first little bit of possibility. And I could have just said, man, I'd love to do that someday. And, you know, just continued going to work and whatever. But I chose to walk through the door. I was like, I chose to listen to myself, right? When I said there's something that I want, okay, go do it. And when I experienced wanting something and making it happen, it was like, oh shoot, if I can do that, like, what else is possible?

Give me more of that, right? Very cool. So I feel like in those moments, you know, of anxiety, all of that stuff kind of bubbling up, was that your first experience with anxiety was in corporate?

Yeah. What's interesting is what I'm, you know, I'm learning more and more about. I have generalized anxiety disorder. It usually manifests in your 20s. So it's usually not something that you have your whole life. Sometimes you do, but it is really common for that to, I use the word again, to show up, to develop, to appear in your 20s. And I would imagine that's to do with, um, you know, your brain's literal physical development because we're not fully formed yet. I think about the things in my early 20s, you're like, interesting. Um, but that actually showed up for me. I had no idea what it was. Um, had no idea what was going on, uh, when I was working in Vermont. And I thought that by moving back to Minnesota, being closer to family, and by switching jobs, like switching companies, I thought that that would, would fix it. I thought whatever I was experiencing had to be related to the fact that I didn't have my support network handy and, you know, things were becoming stressful at my job in Vermont. I learned very quickly that what we think is the root cause is often not the root cause. Because everything just got worse once I moved back to Minnesota, other than being around family, which was great. Um, but yeah, like different company, nope, that didn't make it better. And you know, similar job description, that didn't change anything.

So yeah, I didn't know what it was.

Um, I took a long time to seek help.

Uh, I kind of let things get to the extreme before I sought help.

And it's actually one of the best things that's ever happened to me because it, it made me learn how to listen to myself and how to understand myself because it forced me to slow down and learn how to do that, to understand what was going on in here.

And that's a skill like I will never take for granted.

That has been incredible, like knowing how to be in tune with my body and to figure out what my body needs. Priceless.

Right. Absolutely. I totally agree with that. So I know that you are a person who self-advocates for living with a health issue. You know, we— you know, talking about integrating and accepting rather than fighting. And on the opposite of that, I'm like, no, I want to fight it. I want to get rid of it. I want to cure it. How do you differentiate? Like, what was the motivating factor for just accepting and integrating it? Because to me, that says Oh, just accept it kind of thing.

It is.

It's okay.

No, it's kind of all the above. And this was basically a development for me this year. Um, this has changed how I live and operate and work. I fought against anxiety tooth and nail.

Um, I was like, I'm going to fix this.

I'm going to figure out how to work around it, over the top of it. Like, circumvent it, fuck it. And like I tried to jam my square peg in the round hole of corporate again last year. I let my mental health deteriorate so much that I was no longer taking on clients mid-year 2019.

And because of that, I was like, I need to go work for somebody.

'cause I'm not taking care of myself and I'm not able to run my business. And part of me was like, man, it would be so great if I could just make it work in corporate because it's so much less stressful than running your own business, right?

Someone's doing all of that stuff for you.

You just show up, you get a regular paycheck, you know, you do fairly light work compared to operating a business.. And I was like, man, I really wish I could figure out a way to make that work. Well, my job responsibilities in this very niche, um, uh, career that I had, very specific, very specialized, um, were triggers for me. And it didn't matter that I got ADA accommodations. That's the Americans with Disabilities Act. So I got job accommodations to try to make make the environment more conducive to my anxiety so that I could perform my job duties. That didn't help. Um, I chose a different industry that was much less stressful. That didn't help. And it really forced me to, I mean, it really wasn't until I started working with my coach this year that I learned this concept of allowing. Instead of fighting. Um, because there's a lot of stuff like going on in my body, a lot of it that I want to fight and say like, no, I, I need to show up to work today, I need to do this, I need to do that. And what really changed was me saying it's just allowing or accepting shit happens, shit happens. And when I respond to it by fighting it and trying to push through, I make it worse. And there are consequences to that. If I allow that and accept that and don't fight it and adapt to my needs, I get through that period much more quickly and my body is more resilient on the other side. So what I've been doing this year and what I'm now helping my clients to do is to construct my business in such a way that it supports my health issues. Like it's built in. So my business doesn't need to look like anybody else's business. It's, it's what works for me because if my business supports me and my health needs, I'm going to perform at my best and my clients are going to get the best of me at all times.

Right. Nice. Thank you for sharing all of that. Like you, you answer the questions so, so thoroughly to where it's like, oh, that was probably the next 3 questions. So I appreciate I appreciate that. You know, since you've started—

Certification coming soon.

Yeah. So you've started, you know, you've introduced, you know, your coaching business. How do you think— I know you work with coaches, you know, to help them enroll their first client, you know, and to sort of live with their health issues. Why do you think— what is the major component of Danielle and Danielle's coaching? Why do people sign up with you? What do you think, you know, is the it thing that Danielle has that makes people go, yes? I know I'm asking you to jump into your brilliance again.

No, I love it because I'm getting this mental image of like, you know, neon sign with flashing bulbs around the outside, like, sign up now. Yeah, yeah, this is the hot ticket item.

Yeah, and you can use your dancing, your 8 years of dance to sell that.

Honestly, the defining factor is I hold nothing back. Like I could say, oh, I tell it how it is, or I'm honest, or, or whatever.

It's really like I hold nothing back.

And I say that I hold nothing back in service of my client, right?

There's a big difference between spouting your opinion and what you think versus what do they need to hear, like what's actually going to serve them. And I'm really fascinated by life coaching because I can be an incredibly powerful person and an incredible leader. And at the same time, completely remove my ego from the equation. Like, it is not about convincing people. It is not about advising people. It's about guiding people, like helping them to listen to themselves first, no matter what that looks like.

Right. And do you feel like the people who enroll with you pretty much know what they're getting? I mean, I know you do Connect Calls, you do Red Appointments and all of that where you probably, you know, have 1 or 2 sessions And so do you display, this is how it works, this is how it's going to be. So they know once they pay the funds that there's going to be a high level of flame that's going to be burning. They're going to be in the hot seat a lot. Do they know that when they sign up?

I want to make a distinction because no, it's really good. They're not signing up for high flame, hot seat coaching all the time. Like, because of the shit that I live with, I'd say what's probably very unique for me is I bring an unparalleled level of compassion to my coaching. And that comes with some flames when flames are needed, because the flames are in service of the power of the person in front of me. It's to wake them up and remind them of how much strength that they have. And how much power they have. And we throw that word around a lot, but people are humans too. And there are going to be times where nourishing and nurturing and compassion and me teaching them self-compassion and modeling self-compassion is the thing that's going to allow them to be powerful. To answer your actual question, like, yeah, I let people experience my coaching before I would ever make an offer to them. There is a big difference between how I show up in a connection call versus when someone has agreed, yes, I would like to experience your coaching. Like there's, there's all the corporate mannerisms that I've learned. You know, I do know how to be polite sometimes.

Sometimes.

On connection calls, like I don't assume people want to hear what I have to say, right? Like I meet people as a human first. If if they feel pulled or they want to experience more, be like, we can set up the avenue for that, right? To experience coaching where I will hold nothing back. But it's not like— I just, I guess I'm pushing back against this image of me like this bull in the china shop, you know, that I'm just going to come in and stomp all over things or just be really loud, you know. There's there's a dial to everything and you adjust that depending on the situation, right?

Um, yeah, and, and that's, that's not the image that I of course want you to get, but when I think about how honest that, you know, that I've witnessed you being, yeah, um, yeah, I, you know, if we're just gonna be, you know, totally, you know, open right here, I don't think I'm the person like who would want to be coached by you because it might be too hot. And so, you know what I mean? Like, I think, uh, like that's what I'm saying. Like, that's why I was wondering if people know what they're getting, because I'm a person, like my mom always said, oh shit, you wear your feelings on your sleeves. And I do. And then it takes me a while to get out of that sometimes. And so some, and you know, there are a lot of times with coaching is where you need that. You know, but I always find that, okay, who, you know, who do you vibe with kind of thing, you know? And I think there's a, there's a place and a connecting time for everybody, but I just, I was just wondering about, you know, is it that, you know, do people know how, how hottie it could, could potentially get with, with you, which I think is incredible. I really do think it's incredible, but I also think it takes a, a certain kind of person who is able to receive it.

Yeah, I'll say in a word, that person is hungry. Like, and that's, that's what I call out of people. That's when I'm auditioning clients. I need to know that they have that level of hunger. And a question that I will always ask is, how bad do you want it? Like, I need to know that because the person that's going to get the most out of my coaching is the person that is really fucking hungry. There's something they really, really want. And they want somebody that's going to push them. Um, I did a lot of sports and equitation when I was growing up, and I wanted to go all in. Like, I wanted my coaches to be tough on me. I wanted them to call out the little things. I wanted them to challenge me and to push me. And the people that I work with, they're hungry for that. They're like, this thing that they want so damn bad that means way more to them than how hard I am on them.

Yeah, okay, I get that.

And it's always with love. It's always with love. But like, the flames come out in service of their dream. And it sounds corny as hell, but it's true. Like, when someone tells me, I want this thing more than anything in the fucking world, I'm like, excellent, I will move heaven and earth to help you, right?

So with that being said, as a coach, you know, we all do this for a reason. You know, not everybody, you know, I know there are a lot of coaches right now, but not everybody can be a good coach. What would you say is your big why?

Hmm.

Abstractly, I'd say that pursuit of greatness. But I had this conversation with a colleague recently at this moment in time, my why is very selfish. And I was talking with him like, I don't know if that's— that seems like a bad thing, you know. Everyone that you talk to who's a life coach, there's this altruistic, you know, underlying why. Like, and I'm like, I don't feel that in this moment. I trust that that's probably going to come through. But I've had such a big transformation myself to A, realize it's possible to do what I love for a living and to do something that's meaningful for me and that also supports my health. So my why for the last couple of years has been I don't want to go back to corporate.

Yeah.

Like I will fight for this tooth and nail because I was so, so sick in corporate. And I'm like, I don't want to go back. Um, yes, it's meaningful work and it's changed shape a little bit. You know, it was running a dog behavior business and now it's life coaching. And I'm getting more and more nuanced into like what really feels good. And I love life coaching. Um, but yeah, like that's, it's a bit ballsy to say because it's not gonna make me sound very good, but in the moment it's a little bit selfish. Like I would say the parts of life coaching that I enjoy are helping people with those big, big ticket goals.

Yeah.

And being able to see that transformation. I mean, that's always been the case. Every career I've ever had, I've been witnessing transformation. Like whether it was engineering and we're changing some raw material into a finished product or dog training, we're seeing learning occur. Same with dance, we're building skills. And life coaching, we're changing lives. Being able to witness that transformation, you know, is a big why. And part of this is I want to believe for myself and for other people that you can do what you want to do with your life.

Absolutely.

That you don't have to go into a box.

Yeah. Oh my goodness, I love that because that's, that's the epitome of what I stand for. I don't think what you said is selfish at all because Yeah, we do this because we want to get gratification by helping and transforming the lives of other people. But in turn, look at your dash. You know, not talking about your birth year or your death year. Let's look at how powerful that dash is. Because many people, you know, Les Brown says, oh, the richest place in the world is the graveyard where people have taken their life, their dreams, right? And so having that full impact. So just two more questions as we wrap up. Tell me what was— you know, today it's November. One year from today, what would have to happen in your life for this to be the absolute best year of your life?

I wonder how long you— like, did you do any of these interviews last November?

No, I only started my podcast in May.

Like, I just can't help thinking it's like That is such a loaded question with how 2020 went.

It is, it is.

You're like, roll the dice. Like, what would have to happen? Like, yeah, because I've had a few of those like best year evers, and every single one, even though there's been a lot of shit that hit the fan Every single one has been a best year ever. Honestly, 2020 has been one of my best years ever.

Um, it's the year I've said the most—

the most frequently I've said yes to myself. Like, in one year, there's been a lot of stuff going on this year.

So it was, what would I have to do?

What would have to happen?

What would have to happen?

Yes. But it's like, you know, when you think about it, it's, it's like when you said you manifest, you make shit happen. Well, you kind of have to visualize what shit you're going after, or at least decide what the goal is. So if you were to fast forward one year, what has happened? That's so perfect. Hmm.

It's a really weird time to be answering that question because everything is really fuzzy for me personally in this moment. Like, I'm dancing on this edge of surrender and massive action. Like, I've always been a get shit done, make shit happen person. And like, this goal that I have is a longer term goal, and I can't like just attack it every single day, all day. I'm gonna burn out, and that's not the tactic that gets me the results that I want., right? You can apply to a gazillion jobs. You can build your resume. You can work on your interviewing skills and land an incredible job. Like you can make that, take action and make that happen. Growing a business, there is a lot of magic in it because there is so much uncertainty. There's so much you can't control. And almost everything you do is the first time you've ever done it. It's just a series of firsts. And that continues no matter how big you get, right? You grow your business or you scale your business, you're going to have firsts forever.

Yeah. Absolutely.

There's not really this place of mastery. So I'm learning, you know, what will have to happen, like what I need to do, what I need to do with my behavior to get the results I want. The one thing unequivocally I know that must happen is I must keep going. Period. Full stop. I must keep going. And sometimes that's all I tell myself in a day.

Just keep going. Yep.

Because the people who succeed at this are the people that don't quit. They're the people who kept going. Like the people who've been at it the longest are the ones who are successful.

I admire you for being so honest with just where you are because you asked me that question, I'd be like, well, in order for this to happen, I'd have to have, you know, 6-figure a year and oh, I would come up with a whole list of shit. But here you are. It's like, no, no, this is where I am. And I love— I honestly love your level of honesty. And I think, you know, I learned so much about you in this hour that we've spent together. And thank you for being so forthcoming. I think you have such an array of experience to which any client who works with you would be lucky to have you as their coach. And I think you are modeling what it means to be a badass coach and a badass person who owns her shit. Shit.

Yep.

Right? So thank you for spending this time with me. So I'd like to leave with where— we all have our preferred method of where we want people to contact us. So people who have fallen in love with Danielle in this hour, Where and how would you like for them to connect with you? You know, because maybe they want more.

Yeah, the best place to connect with me is Facebook. Um, that's where I'm doing all of my creating, and that's like my personal Facebook. Like, send me a friend request, or you can also elect to just follow someone as a person on Facebook. I do have a business page, but like, all the magic I'm creating and all of the rawness and the realness and the truth That's all coming out on Facebook and most of my posts are public. So even if we're not friends, you can see them. Other than that, my website is how to get in touch with me, how to contact me. This is an open invitation to anyone listening. I'm more than happy to have a conversation with you about anything. I might appear as this like badass dragon lady, but please know I'm very approachable and I'm happy to make space space. Uh, the website will be in the description, I'm sure.

Absolutely. Wow, thank you so much, Danielle. It has been an absolute pleasure to share this time with you, and you have provided such value and such gems to my audience. So thank you for that.

Thanks for doing what you're doing.

If you like what you're hearing and perhaps you're interested in having a complimentary conversation with me, click the link at the bottom of the show notes. Thank you so much for listening. If you even want to know more about what I'm up to, head over to traviestewart.com. And if you like seeing the videos of the podcast, every episode is on my YouTube channel. Take care, guys.