Picking up the pieces after a breakup

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the podcast Work That Out. My name is Travia Steward and I am a performance and life coach, and it's my mission to empower men and women with the tools to create better relationships, better balance in their lives, and a clear sense of communication in all areas. I can help you create and design the life that you've always imagined for yourself. My intention for this podcast is to inspire, to motivate, and to equip you with the ways in which you can take your life to the next level. We've all been in situations where we've had to dig deep and find the answers, find the motivation to figure things out, to work that out. Hearing real-life experiences and stories of how everyday people are achieving the life of their dreams can hopefully inspire you to reach higher for yours. This show is focused on shining a light on people who have done just that, in hopes that you too can learn from our conversations some ways to take your life to a whole new level. I'm excited for the ride. Thank you for joining us for Work That Out. Today is a talented actor. He's a phenomenal singer and writer living and working in New York. He grew up in Longview, Texas, and while he was a student at North Texas, he worked with the amazing Betty Buckley, who won a Tony Award for her role in Cats. He's also been an actor in The Fantasticks, which showed and premiered off-Broadway. He was in several shows at Casa Mañana out of Fort Worth, Texas, Sweeney Todd, Miss Saigon, also Les Mis, and he played none other than Jesus in Jesus Christ Superstar. He also brought to life the lead role of Mark in Washington, D.C.'s world premiere of Opera Florida. He brilliantly portrayed Hedwig. Oh my God, you think Neil Patrick Harris had it? This guy was Hedwig in Hedwig and the Angry Inch at the Zach Theatre in Austin, Texas. He also performed in Jeremy Schoenfeld's Iron and Coal with the Brooklyn Youth Chorus, Contemporaneous, and Master Voices just this past January. He is also a writer and author of a short film that we're going to delve into a little later. Entitled "Rodeo Clown." He also performed in "Candide" next to none other than Bradley Cooper and Carey Mulligan. And to top it all off, his latest project, his latest project, he starred alongside the opera star and Tony winner Paulo Jat in Marin Alsop's conducted Bernstein's Mass, which airs on PBS. On May 15th, this next month coming up, 2020, as part of their Great Performance Series. Ladies and gentlemen, I want to introduce you to the one and the only, one of the most amazing people I've ever met, and I'm glad to call and proud to call a friend, Daniel Rowan. Hi, Daniel.

Welcome. Thank you. Hi, Trey. Hi, hi. It's, it's I think I don't exactly know what to say. That's— it's so interesting. I can, you know, I feel like people can wake up sometimes and think, oh gosh, well, my life can feel not exactly how I want it to be. But whenever you read all that off, I'm like, oh wow, I've done some pretty cool stuff.

So Daniel, this is where I want to start, right? So let's say it's 90 degrees.

Wonderful.

East Texas, right? It's a Friday night. You are a junior in high school. What was the instrument that you played? Was it the trumpet?

I played the trumpet. Yeah, the trumpet.

The marching band.

Yeah.

It's a Friday night. You're getting ready to go out for halftime and play halftime for Pine Tree High School band. Now, looking back at this entire evolution How did you evolve from playing in the band at halftime to the performer that you are today?

Oh man, well, to tell you the truth, uh, it came because I didn't get what I wanted. Uh, I tried out for a band captain, or like a band captain. My mom was band captain in Pine Tree as well, and they're like, they're like 10 of them, like you get like 10 band captains, uh, for senior year, and I tried out for that and I didn't get it, so I was like, bye. So I was, uh, so I didn't get what I wanted, and that led me to, uh, try out for theater, right? Um, sometimes I think, uh, whenever you don't get what you want at the time, it's, it feels like you're gonna, it's gonna it's going to change your life. Like, it hurts to not get what you want.

Totally.

Uh, but it led me to this whole, like, trajectory of, like, okay, I guess this is what my job is. I guess I'm an actor now, right?

Right. So, you know, I watched you. I, I just remember, you know, and if we're gonna go way back to the very beginning, you know, we needed more guys. I've always been drawn to shows, plays that I wanted to direct that had a million different guys in it. And I just remember you and your best friend Charles, you know, who were like, "Hey, we're here," right? But, you know, Daniel, I watched you literally— and I don't mean to say— I mean, it was a pivotal moment in watching you really come into theater, not really having a clue, but I could tell that you had found your home. And the process in which you used to embody roles and to really, you know, create a level of such high believability was so impactful, which is why I still compare my years at Pine Tree. I feel like it was, you know, the absolute icing on the cake, you know. No offense to any of my Skyline students, but you know, but my time there I felt like was really the catalyst of my teaching career. And you were in part, a lot, you know, a part of that. And so when you were in high school, I thought you were a very believable and convincing actor. What was that process for you then in high school to create a level of believability And then I want you to compare it to the process that you go through right now on a professional stage to create, like, Hedwig, my God.

Well, I think it's, um, like the believability thing is I came in and I didn't, I didn't really know what acting was. And I knew, uh, all I could do is go in and be how I am, just go on, like since I started at such a, I don't know, since I started around 17, I had sort of like developed like this, how I was without, I didn't act my entire life. So whenever I got on stage for the first time, I was like, well, I can't be anything else but like what I am right now. So there was, and on top of that, like being a gay kid, It was always like putting on like different personas and things. Well, I guess in my— I guess my way of coping as a kid, period. I mean, growing up is difficult. And then also being a gay kid in Southern Baptist East Texas, I found— I think I found ways to like make people laugh. Divert people's attention away from, oh gosh, they might find me out. So, um, so it was— I think in a sense it was always acting, um, so that sort of prepared me. Uh, that's— I think I've heard people say that before.

Yeah, that was—

I was always acting. Um, but I think once I got on the stage, once I got on the stage, I was like, oh wow, I can just like— I can, I can do this and just be who I've sort of manicured myself to be in the first place.

Right.

And I think from there, how it's changed to now, it's that I'm undoing a lot of that that I manicured. How it's changed is that I feel like even my voice is higher. I've taken off this— I've taken pressure off of myself, I think. Right. That's sort of like the believability thing that you're mentioning, which thank you so much. I strive to be believable. I think that's what we want as to be in as actors. I think most of us, most of us do, and just the work ethic that you taught us from the, from the very beginning of like you got to do character work you can make room for yourself to, to say no, no, I'm sorry, I'm, I'm in the zone right now, just like if this is my time when you go in, when you go into an audition, no, this is my time, I'm, I'm in the character, and you've got to do the work, you've got to do the, you've got to do the work, it's not, it's not easy, you got to memorize, the memorizing of the lines is is, um, it's— that happens as you do the work. I think it's not like you sit down and memorize your lines and, um, it's constant repetition. I remember doing things over and over and over and over again with you to create, uh, to create a, um, to create habit. That's what it is. Um, when things get like— when things feel pretty shitty, uh, it there's still that like that energetic foundation of like, oh well, I gotta keep going. So if there's a stage slap that happens that actually hits me and knocks my jaw out of place and it hurts, I mean, obviously you didn't say, you didn't tell us you made sure that I was okay and everything, but what I wanted to do was keep going. So I knocked my jaw back into place, or like sort of like twisted my chin back into place, went backstage, and you said, are you sure? Do you want to keep going? Okay. I was like, yeah, I worked it out. I worked it out. So I wanted to keep going. I was like, I'm I think I was even like using an accent because that's what I was doing. Right, exactly. I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm all—

I'm here.

Yeah. Uh, so now I got a Dr Pepper on my— I don't even know, I can't do the accent anymore. I gotta work on that. Uh, but like the— what we wanted to do is like, oh yeah, that, that hurts, and I— of course I'll deal with that later. But you look, you keep, you keep moving forward, you move through it It's not that you don't pay attention to the pain or what's bad or what is uncomfortable. It's that you— I guess that can be a metaphor for you move towards it so that you can get through it like a buffalo A buffalo is the only animal that runs west into a storm, and it happens to get through it more quickly, even though they have the most intense, the most intensity of the rain, of the wind, of the debris blowing on them and their children and their family. They get through it more quickly because they run head-on into it. Where the cows and all that kind of stuff, they go and they just like experience it for longer times. And you run from it, but you still got to get through it. Now, I wouldn't tell anyone to go backstage, knock their jaw into place, and put a Dr Pepper can on their jaw and keep going. But of course, young people, we learn. And you checked in with me, you're like, you want to keep going? I was like, yeah, let's do it. Let's do it.

Let's do it. So just that example, how did, you know, events like that in your life help you to establish a sense of being resilient? And meshing that with your persistence and your ambition, how did that help you be able to cultivate the acting career that you have today? Because, you know, the entertainment world industry is tough. You know, you guys hear no far more often than you hear yes. So how have your experiences prepared you to be resilient and keep going and be motivated to wake up and excited to do this job called performing?

Oh man, you know, like, as soon as like I hear you— I hear you saying these things of like how you're so resilient and, and this and that, I, I just want to like preface this by saying even the most resilient and, and, um, and even, yeah, even the most resilient, dedicated people are going to have this like imposter syndrome of like, no, this is actually, I don't think of myself that way. It's, it's, it's hard. It's, I just had a friend tell me like, you're not doing the work, do the work, do the work, uh, care for you, find the care in you. And that's been like constant. I mean, I, It's a lot. So even the most resilient person has to constantly do the work, constantly doubt themselves. I think, at least that's for me, that's what I'm learning. That's what I'm hearing from people. I'm not putting words in people's mouths or feelings in their bodies and in their minds. But what I'm— the resilience, I think, is just getting up and doing it again. Figuring out what you did, what felt uncomfortable, why it felt uncomfortable, and then doing something about it. Following the fear is something I learned in improv class. It's, uh, the People's Improv Theater said, follow your fear. If you're scared of it, go into it. Sort of like following the pain, right? Um, uh, so how does it— what makes me want to keep getting up, you asked?

Like, every single day, getting up and and just working your ass off every day. How do you maintain and up that ante every single day?

Oh gosh, you know what, it's not making my career my life. Even though I love singing, I love acting, I live to sing, I love it, I love it so much. I don't actually live to sing. I don't actually live to act. I live to have— to be healthy mentally. I live to do things that make me feel good, and some days that's making a playlist and listening to music, cleaning my apartment, pouring coffee, not doing a damn thing that day. And I think that's really important. This industry is so difficult. They want what they want, and that's, that's okay, right? You got to keep working hard, but you can't force something. And it's important, I think it's important, especially for millennials, millennials and beyond. I read an article a while back about the loss of The loss of the millennial hobby.

Okay.

Most of our— I feel like most of, uh, most the time we're all hustling to make money. Therefore, every little thing we're doing is to make money. Um, I've implemented in the past year, um, the, the practice of doing things not to make money. That's not because I don't need it. But because I have to, because I want to have hobbies. My whole life I've wanted to learn how to throw pots. I've wanted to, I've loved collecting things and I've started thrifting again, going to Goodwills, going to antique stores again, finding things for cheap, furnishing my apartment with all secondhand things that I love, that I picked out, that are of great quality. I think it's having hobbies, it's having a mental health practice, a mindfulness practice, which those things are not easy. Those things, like this mindfulness shit, girl.

It's effort.

Man, that is hard. It is. It's effort, and that's what it is. It's mindfulness for a reason. You got— it is constant practice. You don't just sit down and meditate your ass. It takes, it is practice. It's practice to cultivate a sense of like, what do I like? What kind of hobbies do I like? What's a hobby? Do I like hobbies? Maybe your hobby is sitting down and watching that Netflix show and not feeling tense about it or making yourself feel guilty about it.

Right. And you're still a pretty young guy.

That makes me want to get out of bed. Nice.

'Cause what are you, 31?

Yeah.

Yeah, you're a young guy and you're speaking, you're speaking, like, as someone who is like 72, who has been through all these things, how have you gotten to a point to where you know that you need all of this balance, you need all of this self-care? You know, because usually it takes people to the point of, oh shit, I almost went off the cliff. How were you able to notice the importance of balance at such a young age?

Um, I think I have a I have a friend who was in an acting class with this actor. She— I don't know what her name was, but the acting teacher told her, you don't have a lot of emotional— you don't have a well of emotion in you. Like, you haven't been through enough. She had like a thimble full of emotion in her. Not just emotion, but like, I don't know, lived, I don't know, pain, grief, things, people, we might, some people might have more access to them. And then her daughter died. After her daughter died, she won an Academy Award years later. But after her daughter died, it cracked her open, this awful, awful awful thing, cracked her open, then she had a well, an ocean, an ocean rather than a thimble. I think grief, hardships, I think some things that I have been through have allowed me to figure some things out. I mean, just starting from the beginning, I think, as I was mentioning, I have these stories that I'm trying to fall out of love with, these ideas, these stories of myself, like, oh, I was a gay kid in East Texas, and these things that sort of like just like keep playing in my head. But I'll repeat it. I'll repeat it again. It's, I think, going through the hardship of being a gay person, not knowing what that was, right? And then, then going through the, the hardships of a couple of mentors failing me. There was abuse that I went through, different abuses that I went through in my childhood. And then going to New York and being in a very long relationship with someone for 7 years, having an entire life with them, and then within one text message having my home, my partner, everything fall out from underneath me. And that was like, oh my God, that is my life. No, I cannot go on. And as someone that has struggled with anxiety and depression, I thought, well, I could commit suicide. That'd be easier. That'd be so much easier than to have to like go through this. But like, I think that on top of all those things, getting into therapy 10 years ago, going to therapy once a week, every single week with a psychoanalyst, since I moved to New York and then having something, having my whole life pulled out from underneath me, I think I had no other choice but to— well, I had two choices. I could die or I could live. And since I'm living, I had to figure out how to do things on my own. And I'm still trying to do that. There's so many days where I'm like, I don't know what I'm doing. Why can't someone just give me some money? Why can't someone just take care of me? Why can't I just be codependent and be unhappy, but also be taken care of?

Right.

Because we all have a moment.

No, I love where you were going with that. You know, that was one of the— with our relationship, that was one of the hardest things I ever saw you go through. And my heart was absolutely breaking for you. And you know, even as a Coach, I, you know, there were times when I was like, I hope that I'm helping him. I hope that maybe I've given him some words to where, because I can tell you, you know, had you done something harmful to yourself, you know, I, along with so many other people would have been devastated because Daniel, there's something special about what you bring to people's lives. That I know that you and I are going to be in each other's lives forever, you know. And the sad part on my part is that's mainly because of you. And I love that so much, you know. I just remember laughing. You are one of the people, you know, because we've been on Zoom calls a couple times, you know, in the last month. And I just remember when I worked with you guys in high school, I never laughed harder. Like, you just bring out such a fun, exciting part of me that I never want to lose that. And having you in my life, never, ever, ever. So I want to go back to a couple things that you said a few minutes ago when you were saying your stories, right? Because we all have these stories that we live by. We have stories that are cultivated, that are sort of maybe thrust upon us because, number one, maybe because because we're in East Texas, maybe because we're in South Louisiana, maybe it's because we're in the Bible Belt. But we all have these expectations. I even had expectations, and, you know, of where I'm supposed to be a very feminine little girl who— and I just was never that person. But I always tried to fit into that mold until I realized this is stupid. This is just not who I am. And I watched you, and there's so many times when I am in awe of the millennials, the younger people, because, you know, someone like me went through the majority of my life as someone else, you know, a facade, before I really came to terms and I was fine with accepting and people knowing, you know, my true identity as well. And it inspires me when I look at your growth and your journey to finding your true identity. So how did you actually come to terms with like, this is who I am, I am a gay male, and this was my process? And how were you able to let go of some of those stories that kept you trapped to begin with? I know that was a loaded question.

No, I mean, but I'm hearing all of it and thank you also for sharing that, sharing that with me. I just want to say that I'm in awe that you're like sitting here doing this after like what, 5 weeks ago that you— I mean, if you don't mind my saying.

I don't mind you saying.

Yeah, that you had a double mastectomy 5 weeks ago and you're sitting here like Like, pop off, go away, I'm done, I'm done.

What do we do? We work that out, we work that out, we do.

Time and time again, you just, you, me, I don't, you just keep proving to, to all of us that you are, um, incredible. Thank you, David. So I think it's not like a letting go. It's not letting go of those stories. It's sort of like falling out of love with them a little bit in a sense that like, oh no, I'm depressed. My partner of 7 years broke up with me through a text message. That kind of little thing. That story. And you hear yourself repeating these things and they turn into these things and they become— I'm fearful that that becomes my narrative. And like, that's not what I want. Those things that I repeat. It's not the letting go of them. Those records, those old records are going to always spin. Are going to always spin. And it's not breaking those records, throwing them out, it's adding more voices to the choir that are louder than those records, because those are always going to be there. That's the work, is finding things that are louder, because those little things, those stories— no, you can't do this, you can't you can't possibly be on PBS singing soprano line in front of like thousands and thousands of people. You're just a gay kid from Texas who's pretending to be an actor, who's pretending to this and this and this. And you're like, ah, just like, stop, stop. Those might have helped you in the past, But not, not now. Not, not now. Right. I don't know.

Thank you for that.

So what is one thing that you really are so very thankful from? Maybe it's both your parents, maybe it's a lesson, maybe it's one of your parents, but what is something that you can go, it's because of this, that because of my dad, such and such, my mom, such and such. What is one thing that you can credit to them just for your upbringing, the person who you are, something?

Um, the first thing that pops into my head is that they— this, this like outfit pops into my head. I remember this, like these plaid shorts and these like argyle socks and these bright— this like this blazer I found at Goodwill and like my long like dyed blonde hair. His bright orange shoes, this outfit of this like kid that had no other place to express it, or so he thought. They allowed me, they did not turn down the volume on that. If anything, they were like, they didn't say anything about it. They was like, that's cool, that's cool.

So keep doing your thing.

Keep doing your thing.

Nice.

Yeah, keep doing your thing, whatever, whatever that is, right? Um, yeah, nice, nice.

So it was 2016, I went back and looked up when you sent me the email, when you wrote Rodeo Clown. And as a matter of fact, because it's, it's, um, it's a short film, so I reread it this morning. And just, yeah, so I can be on top of it. You know, when I think of the Daniel that I know and the story that I just read, I know that whenever we're writing things, we're writing from something within. Tell me, what was your motivation for writing Rodeo Clown?

Okay, well, my motivation was— that was one of the stories that I told. That was one of those stories that I told, and I don't tell it that much anymore, which is interesting. I think a way to add more voices to the choir, turn down the volume on it. Not that it was a bad story to— not that it's a bad story that I don't want to tell anyone, but I got it out of me. I birthed it. I have a friend, Kevin Newberry, who directed me in the opera in DC, who directed me in Candide, and Bernstein's Mass and directed me in the new Tears for Fears musical and maybe I shouldn't say that, that's under the radar. Who, he's become one of my best friends but I, my friend Jeremy King wrote this musical. Kevin Newberry is this incredible opera director. About to perform at the Met, or about to have his first show at the Met in a few years. He and I went for drinks after he directed this workshop, this reading of the musical that my friend Jeremy King wrote. Jeremy Jordan King. So we went for a drink and he goes, so are you a writer? What do you do? Do you like— you're so fascinating, like I can't do Kevin's voice very well, he's incredible, and then I started telling him about, I opened my mouth and I'm like, one of the first things I talk about like this, and the rodeo clown, and then, and he's, no, no, wait, you have to write this, and I had never heard anyone like say that insistently to me, like you need to write, Everyone's like, oh, this, that's a good story, you should write that. And he was like, no, you need to write this and I'm going to direct it. Nice. Like, oh, okay. The other voice was, and I'm going to direct it. It was this feeling of, oh, I have support. So I wrote the story and then he sent a script to one of his short films over to me that I used as a template. And then in 2 days we had it. And then we started making the budget for it. It hasn't been made yet, by the way. It has not been made yet. He and I, different schedules and that's showbiz, baby.

Yes, it is. So there was a certain bit of subtext when you said the word support. I have support. Was that something that had sort of become unfamiliar during that time to where when he said, and you kind of analyzed it, you were grateful for? Tell me what was the subtext of "I have support." It was two things.

It was someone seeing me as an artist who has something to say, who has a new point of view that is indispensable. He saw me as not dispensable and he was holding me accountable. It was accountability. That's a lot of people that support me. Yes. But a lot of people say, well, I'm going to, I'm going to call you tomorrow. And if you, if I don't hear that you do this, like you did the, you did the same thing with me whenever I had my breakdown last year after the breakup. You, I think it was like I wrote a list or like, Yeah, to write a list of everything. What exactly was it? But I remember because I checked in with you, I'd finish it, then I'd call you because you were having a hard time getting out of bed.

And so, but you love writing. So we said, okay, I want you to write a list of everything that you're doing. And then you would sometimes highlight it and go, this is where I am right now on the list.

Oh, yes.

Actually creating something to get up for. And at 10 o'clock I'm gonna have coffee for myself, whatever it was. But I remember that working really, really well for you.

Yes, and even like, um, having that structure, having that structure was, was really important for me. And I've realized that I'll touch on, on how that has led me to what I do today, actually. Um, but that, that structure, because it was, um It's a structure. It's a skeleton.

It's there.

It gives you structure. It holds you together.

It's not like, this is what you're gonna—

this is, uh, you're gonna do all of these things and you're gonna do them all. It's, uh, just like, oh no, this is here for you to, um, to help lift you. And sometimes all I could do was put my feet on the ground and, uh, go pee and shower, uh, and that was the success.

Yeah, that was progress for you.

Yeah, that was the day sometimes, right? Or at least like, you didn't even get out of bed. No, sometimes I did not get out of bed, but I did have that— the list that I made, the structure, which is something that I've rediscovered now, which is pretty incredible. That's my structure, having a structure to the day, the simple things of putting on my shorts, opening the blinds, Pouring my water, making the coffee, then brushing my teeth and showering set me up for the day. And then I can go in and drink my coffee and know that, oh wait, did I start drinking coffee and not brush my teeth the entire day? How's it been 3 days?

How's it been 3 days? Would you say you're a creature of habit? Like, are you like meticulous with, I do the exact same thing every day, like in the exact same order, that kind of thing? Like your routine things.

Uh-huh. Well, I think it's that, uh, I think my habit is my structure. The habit is, uh, that I have my structure. I can do them in a different order, uh, and if I don't get to one, okay, it's fine. Uh, I think it's— I, I call them like the, the 3 Fs. Uh, fluidity, flow, and flexibility. Flexibility, okay, okay, yeah, yeah, but I find that I operate more successfully whenever I do have that structure, whenever I am more of that creature of habit, yeah, with the idea that if I can't get it all done And that's fine. Then it's fine. I have to be, I have to have flow. I have to have fluidity and I have to have flexibility.

Yeah. I like that. See, I am also a creature of habit, but I am a fan of, I get up, I have my coffee, it's out of 1 or 2 cups every single morning. And I like that, that allows, that allows me to thrive. I, you know, do my meditation. I do my stretching and a little bit of yoga. I like having that routine because I'm excited for the day.

No.

And so I love having habits every single day, just, you know, things to wake up. Like, I think it's, it's incredible how much I love, like this morning I did my coffee with some MCT oil in it and just like a tablespoon of the powdered creamer. I haven't done that probably in like 4 months. Totally delicious. It's the little things in life. Right. And so my point in saying all of that is I, it took me a long time to become aware. And this is really one of the main things I work with my coaching clients on is creating the life that you want to live, like really being intentional with those types of things every single day. Like, You know, a couple times a year I journal, what is my perfect day? My perfect day is, I mean, and you can do whatever it is that you want to do. You know, it is to get up and make coffee. It is to have some intimate time with my wife. It is to go on the patio and drink my coffee. It is to journal, you know, those types of things is to enjoy nature. Um, so I have all these things because I want to create my days and know where my time went so that it creates my life. And so how are you using what you're doing on a daily basis, even if you're flying by the seat of your pants, to create the life that you want to live? Because so many times we're reactive to things, but I feel like you're more proactive. How are you being proactive in creating your life?

Well, I've had to be proactive because I had no other choice because all I had was— because of like my anxiety and my depression and my circumstances, whether that was clinical or if it was situational, I have had to be proactive because otherwise I'd just be like, "Oh my god." But then that's what I was a lot of days, and it's okay to be that way sometimes. But what I'm doing is that I— the other day I was like, okay, this quarantine has me— like, I sort of dig the quarantine. I don't feel the pressures of like going out and doing things with people.

Oh, I like it. However, I found myself just like, I'm sort of freeform every single day. So I wrote out I wrote out every single thing of what I do from the moment I get out of bed. Not because I have to do it, but because this would be the ideal morning.

Yes.

Up until like 3— this would be the ideal of what I have to do. I'm gonna put on my pants because I sleep naked and whenever I wake up I don't want to like— and I want to open the blinds completely. So I know that I need to put on my pants first to do that. So I put on my shorts and then, well, you don't want to give the people across the way a show, right? I mean, that was old Daniel. Okay, I, I added more voices to the choir and they said don't. See, it's important with these things, we gotta laugh about these things.

Absolutely.

Anyway, yeah, so I I create this like exact, this perfect morning. That's how I'm being proactive is that I know that on the days that I may not know, I don't know why I feel a certain way because you wake up and you feel strange. You are, I don't know, you might feel strange for a certain reason. You had a strange dream, you ate something, the digestion is off. I don't know, the energy that you pick up from around something in the world and you don't understand, then that's completely fine to not understand that. On those days I could just sit on the couch. When I know that I have that structure, if I can just hit like a couple of those things in that list, right? I mean, I say I wake up, I'm so excited to wake up. Some, I mean, Generally, my favorite time of the day is the morning. I want to give myself the morning, my mornings. I want to make my coffee. What I've been doing lately is I've been taking a bath in the mornings. Like, love a bath.

Who takes a bath in the morning?

Like, I take a bath at night generally, but in the morning?

In the morning.

Yes.

And I put my laptop up. And you know what I've been doing? I've been like, I've been watching cartoons, like on my laptop.

Nice.

Or like watching Animal Planet.

'Cause those are things that made me feel good as a kid. And I'm like, I live alone now. I have a wonderful place. No one's gonna tell me like, "Why are you watching that stuff?" You know what? I'm in the bath, I have my bath salts, I have my coffee in the bathtub. And that is my, I fall back on that whenever I'm feeling tender.

Right.

I think that might, did that answer some?

Absolutely, that sounds beautiful. So, David, now tell us something that just, like, even I wouldn't guess about you. Tell you just something that the average person walking past you, your friends, what is something, like, even funny that we would never guess about?

You know, after living, like, being a city boy for so long, I like to bring home rocks.

Okay, what do you do with them?

I like to bring home— I put them in a pile. Well, it just like, it makes me feel like— I go— I used to do that as a kid, and I thought, so now that I'm in the mountains, I like an hour and a half outside of the city, I go into the— I have this little bag that I— that, and I find rocks And I put them— I mean, Daniel's gonna Daniel, if I'm gonna be honest.

Yeah. I love that.

So before we wrap up, Daniel, tell, you know, our audience about this big PBS special that you have coming up on May 15th, which is next month, in a couple of weeks.

Oh, yeah.

I'm so excited. So last year, the guy I was talking about, Kevin Newbery, incredible director, he's— He's my Mike Nichols to my Meryl Streep. He's like, he's incredible. He directed me in Bernstein's Mass, the Bernstein Estate. Leonard Bernstein chose him to make this modern, I guess, make the quintessential Bernstein's Mass that's going to be recorded for all time for people to see. Bernstein's Mass can be something that can be a little like, what? Why do people—

this is so strange. But it has—

hasn't—

I—

from what I've learned about it, it's very difficult to do because there's a full orchestra, there's a full marching band, there's like a 100-person kids choir, 100-person adult choir.

Holy smokes.

Yeah, and this was in front of 14,000, 15,000 people. And then there's the street chorus, which is like 15 people, which I was a part of. And then there's Paulo Jat, who's the celebrant.

It's his story. He's a—

his story of losing his faith and finding it again. And each of the street ensemble, the street chorus, has solos. And this is conducted by the most famous maestra in the world, Marin Alsop, who's just incredible. So I'm singing, there's this part that Leonard Bernstein. Leonard Bernstein, of course, is known for West Side Story, known for his incredible preludes. And yes, I'm gonna hear like my, my like opera and orchestra people hearing me like, what are you talking about? I'm trying, I'm trying to describe it. Anyway, so he loved rock music. That was the thing that he loved.

He loved that.

His daughter was even there talking about it. It was really Really cool, Jamie Bernstein. But there's this part that he wanted to be a big rock number, to be a big rock part in the score. And descant means an alternate, from my understanding of it, I'm playing the descant tenor. It means an alternate melody over the other, over the melody that's already going. Except where it's like really high, I believe. Um, so this is originally played by like a, um, a soprano voice sung by a male.

Wow. Um, so his original thought for it was, uh, uh, I want it to be a rock voice.

I want it to be, uh, someone who can like scream this stuff. So, um we've put that into it and that's the quintessential Bernstein's Mats that we're going to see with this incredible cast, the most incredible experience on stage I've ever had outside of Hedwig. It's really quite something.

Okay, well we will definitely have our DVRs ready to set, record it, everything, of course, because I love watching you perform. One of, like, I enjoyed watching Opera Florida in DC Uh-huh. But there was a moment, and I'm not even sure if I shared this with you when we flew down to Austin to see you. Um, there was a moment of, I was so overwhelmed with emotion when I watched you embody Hedwig. And I just, it was a moment, like, it really brought me to tears. And I just remember tears were streaming, and I was like, what the hell is going on here? But it was in that moment that I said, he's here, he's doing what he's always wanted to do, and look at him doing such a brilliant job at it. And so I just remember it was— it's my fondest memory of watching you perform so far, and I know many more are coming. Oh my, yeah, I still think about it. It still makes me emotional.

Well, I remember that feeling of, uh, I remember when I looked out into the audience at the end, I had to like look away from you because I had to, I had to keep singing, which I mean, I've had, I've sung and cried at the same time, but I was—

That's how it feels so much.

Yeah. And I feel like that, that role, I mean, that after doing that, whenever you said like, I came in, I came into my Maybe that's just how I'm reading it. I did come into my own.

You did. Oh my God, absolutely.

I listened to— there's a recording of Hedwig, and I listened to it. I listened to it whenever I couldn't get out of bed to hear myself, and I was like, okay, so I have access to that. I can have access to that again. I can have access to that again. So I recall these— I use audio, hearing myself sing. Like when I'm feeling like, oh, I can't do it anymore, I can't do it, but I remember, oh no, I can, I can. It is okay to not feel like you can do anything anymore as long as you have reminders to remind you that you can, whether that is something written on a piece of paper, something in your ear, or I think it's important to have those things to do on your own and to not always lean on friends, but to also lean on friends sometimes. And you can do it on your own 80% of the time.

Yes, yes, that's, that's, that's so powerful in you saying that. So, uh, two more questions. Okay, uh, so this next one, uh, is, you know, you hear people talk about Oh my God, if I could just do such and such, if I could do this one thing, I can die a happy man or I can die a happy woman. What is your one thing?

My one thing, I think it's very, very basic. To not worry about money. And for— and to not worry about my friends and family's money. Okay, that's, that's the one thing I think that would make me a happy man, because I know that I'm pretty much doing exactly what I want to do. Uh, I think there were certain stressors in our lives that do, um weigh us down a bit more than others. And I think that because I feel like I've cultivated, uh, I don't know, the foundation and like started bricklaying, uh, the, the Daniel that I am and that I'm, that I'm becoming, um, continuing to grow. And I think that if I could get rid of that one thing and not worry about money, I think I would be the happiest man, that I feel like I would have access to it more often.

Okay, thank you for sharing that.

So yeah, so I'm hopeful that I can— so how I know how to achieve that is that if I could just— I don't need to be the most famous actor. I don't need to. But if I could continue to to work as an actor steadily, um, and have enough money to be comfortable and not worry about, like, I don't know, are you gonna pay your rent, right?

Yeah, yeah.

How am I gonna pay my rent? How am I gonna get— how am I gonna get groceries if I'm gonna have to go back into the city and cater? If I'm gonna have to, uh, do this or that or take this concert gig I don't want to do, or like I would like to have the option to say, like, "Oh no, it's okay, give it to someone else because I'm all right right now." I don't know, I feel like maybe it'd be more interesting for me to say something else, but like, that's the first thing that popped into my head, so I thought—

Then that's what the answer is. That's what you should go with. I love that. I love that. So just one more thing. Where can people learn more about you? How can they get in touch with you?

Uh, you can learn more about me, uh, if I would update my website more, but I'm— I'd say on, on Instagram. On Instagram, you can hear a link to Hedwig. You can listen to this really fantastic recording of it. There. I post a lot of things, like a lot of different art and things that I'm interested in, things that aren't just at— that aren't acting, uh, the other interests that I have. Um, you can hear a lot of these like characters and stuff that I might do. Like, I— my idea of self-care is making myself laugh, and like, I make myself laugh so damn hard with these stupid-ass characters I make up. And no, like, nobody thinks they're funny but me. I crack my shit up. There you go. That I just record on Instagram on my stories and stuff. I know people just like roll through there. They're just like, bye bye bye. But it makes me feel good to do those things. Yeah. So I'd say Instagram, uh, um, and on my website. And there's other things on YouTube if you want to, if you want to hear me, uh, hear me sing.

Um, Yeah, I think that's, I think that's a, that's a good place to start.

Okay, my Instagram is where I put all my stuff.

Yeah, sounds good. Well, Daniel, thank you so much. I appreciate your time. You know, I love you very much, and I'm thankful that you're in my life as a very, very close friend. So thank you for that.

I'm, I am so grateful for you and to have been— to have had help building my foundation as a young person, then to have grown and become your friend, and then to have had that foundation of your friendship still be there to help me build a new house when everything fell last year.

Oh, that's good.

Oh yeah, build a new house when everything fell apart.

That's actually a new, a new apartment, uh, apartment on the third floor.

There you go.

What a beautiful view.

Okay, all right. Thank you, Daniel.

I love you, Trey.

I love you.