Reinventing your identity with Dylan Sandifer

You are listening to episode number 8. Thank you so much for joining us today. My goal with these conversations is to explore different types of people and their successes as well as their failures in navigating and mapping out their lives so that you too may have more insight in what it takes to build the life that you envision for yourself. I believe if you take action each day, the life that you want can be closer than you think. Welcome to Work That Out, guys, your guide to connecting authentically, living with purpose, and having no regrets. This is a show that gives you real stories and real examples of people working it out and creating the life that they want. My guest today is a writer, an editor, a communications professional, and even an activist. Ladies and gentlemen, today I invite you to really be a fly on the wall in this great conversation that I will have today with Dylan Sandifer. Ladies and gentlemen, today I have for you a very special guest, Dylan Sandifer. Dylan, how's it going today?

Uh, you know what? It's a lot happening in the world right now, but I'm feeling good, and I'm glad to have this chance to catch up with you and talk to you.

Yeah, it's been a minute. It has definitely been a minute. So, you know, I have such an array of different guests on the podcast. And so the consistent theme is, I think, in every person's individual life, there is an essence of what does it take for you to work these things out. So, you know, people are like, well, what's the theme? Well, that's the theme, you know, that, you know, sometimes we're backed and pushed into a corner. And I just think your evolution You know, full disclosure, I, uh, you know, I just finished teaching high school theater, and I had, uh, someone who was working on, uh, backstage, and I was not informed enough to know that I used her dead name, right? So now I'm old school. I don't really know what any of that means. So, which I'm going to give you a chance to talk about your evolution, but this sort of motivated me to want to learn more because I said, if someone like me who's in a same-sex marriage doesn't know these answers, how does anyone who's not, who's not, you know, LGBTQ, how can they even begin to catch up because I feel like I'm decades, you know, centuries behind. And so, so yeah. So can you tell us just the evolution, you know, go as far back as you want, go as quickly as you want, but who is the Dylan that sits before me today?

Sure. Right. Well, first of all, I mean, before I go into my sort of like personal aspects, my personal evolution, you know, like you say, you know, you're in the same sex marriage, and yet, you know, that doesn't necessarily mean that you, like, you're still learning too, right? I mean, I think that's the interesting thing, and we all have, you know, things to learn, right? Whatever is not part of our identity, like, as a white person, I'm always learning, you know, I can never have the Black experience, I'm just trying to learn how to be a better ally, right? And so there's this, but there's this solidarity that has existed since the queer liberation movement which obviously hit a peak at Stonewall, but existed before then, where, you know, cis gay people, lesbians, and trans people, you know, came together for this common goal. And in our current context, I would be remiss if I didn't, you know, mention that was a riot against the police. But that's the thing, right? We found a sort of political solidarity in coming together as a group to fight for our rights and our liberation. But that doesn't mean that we are a monolith, right? We have very different experiences and some things are in common and some things aren't. Right. So, you know, that's, I think it's great to admit, like, I can be part of the sort of LGBTQ+ community and not know about my trans, you know, brothers and sisters and non-binary folks' experience. So for me personally, You know, it's really hard not to look back in retrospect and put meaning on things.

Right.

Especially like something like being trans. I mean, that's not a language that most of us have growing up, right?

You know, I mean, especially not in Longview, Texas.

Right, exactly, exactly. It's so wild that like we know each other from that context. Like, it's just a completely different world. Yeah, but you know, trans folks are everywhere, including in Longview, Texas. And yeah, I mean, there are those things that now I can kind of look back on and say like, oh, that means something different to me now. Like, you know, I used to like sneak into my brother's room and get his football jersey out of his, you know, his drawer and put it on. And, you know, I hated like having to wear an Easter dress and hat, and I was always fighting with my mom, you know. Which are not necessarily only experiences trans people have, right? But, you know, I can look back with them and say like, there was this always this discomfort, this sort of like alienation with being socialized into the female experience. And it's complicated too, because it's like, I was socialized as a female, which especially in the South, I think can mean certain things. And maybe it's not just a Southern thing, but just being socialized female in this, is this world, right? You're kind of expected to be certain things, and so I have those experiences of not wanting to be too loud and take up, you know, too much space. But at the same time, I wouldn't say I had the experience of a woman because I have always had this disconnect with it, of it not fitting me, the way that experience is commonly described not fitting with me, and certainly me trying to fit in in some of the more performative aspects of being female, makeup, hair, skirts. I definitely tried and if anything, I overcompensated. I don't know if you remember this from me being in high school, but I would wear like full heels and skirts to school. Like it was not a normal thing for a high school girl to be doing, but I was just like trying to—

Oh, you would go to the nines, yeah.

Yeah, which is like wild to me now. So anyway, you know, I mean, I think because I didn't have this language, it was that much harder to find like, what, how do I describe this experience? And I think I went through, and I also think that, you know, your identity can be valid even if you're at a point in time, like for example, you know, so I went to, I got out of Longview, Texas, I went to college, my world really opened up and I'll be forever grateful for that. I mean, you know, and so I, you know, I started by identifying as a lesbian.

A lipstick lesbian.

Right.

Overcompensating again.

Yeah, but then, you know, I cut my hair off and I was, you know, I was a butch lesbian. And then, so, um, you know, and then I kind of was— I identified as non-binary. And, um, you know, and, and, and now I'm, I'm on testosterone, which you can be non-binary and take testosterone, but like I think, you know, I'm more and more leaning into identifying as a trans man. And I think that while of course you have to find it within yourself, at the same time it does help to have external validation. It's very hard to feel like sort of the man that you know that you are when you're being misgendered and things are being assumed about you. Right. So in terms of my identity, You know, there's no perfect— I mean, language falls short every time, and there's— a word can't encompass an entire experience, but it is helpful, and I'm glad that the dialogue and the discourse has opened up to allow for, I think, more exploration without— and I, you know, and I'm in a bubble. This isn't true of every person, every space. I'm very lucky to be in places where I have been allowed this exploration without completely losing a sense of support and things like that. But yeah, so it's been a journey, but it feels very empowering while at the same time, you know, it being a very vulnerable position. There aren't legal protections, you know, you can be fired for being trans and, you know, certainly on the street it's especially dangerous for trans women of color, but, you know, people are killed for being trans on the street, right? So there, there is that aspect, and no amount of self-exploration can change the structural issues, right?

So do you think you always sort of deep down knew that you were a male? Like, you know, was that the mindset? You know, we were experimenting with all these other things, with the lipstick, with the, you know, did you always feel like, even when you snuck into your brother's room and stuff, but like, was there always just a burning desire that, you know, I just, I I, you know, I think I'm just male. I just feel more into that body.

I think it would be more accurate to say that I just knew that I didn't fit where I was supposed to. Okay, okay. I mean, you know, I don't know. I mean, part of that is my discomfort, part of me not wanting to answer that directly as yes is my just whole discomfort with these like very strict two boxes that we tend to split the society into, right? Like, I mean, I still don't know what it means to be male exactly. I mean, like, I feel a certain sense of comfort with the sort of way that that's performed in the world and how I kind of view myself, but like, I mean, that's the thing about, um, the gender binary, right, is I don't think it serves anyone. I mean, other than, you know, powerful cis males who have the benefit of like all of the power because of, because of that, but you know, I think that, you know, women, you know, are oppressed under a very strict binary of what they're supposed to be because they are sorted into the box of women as well. So, I mean, I certainly felt like I never fit. And yeah, I identify more with, I guess, what we commonly think of as maleness.

Okay.

Okay. That sounds like a very roundabout answer, but—

Okay, so let's break this down because there will be people listening to this who go, half of the stuff that they're talking about is foreign. Like a lot of these terms, you know, like for instance, so you are trans, right? And you know, because you are an open book, like I read your post today and you know, and you mentioned earlier that you're taking testosterone shots. So what does that mean for the person who has no idea? Because you know, we live in a society where people are like, you know, it's, it's, you're a man or you're a woman and it's Adam and it's Eve, you know? And what is this? I don't understand what you're talking about. So break it down to a level that, you know, a third grader, you know, what is trans? Even go— and so, you know, I remember when we went to Daniel's show in Austin when he was Hedwig, when he was Hedwig, and the house recording came on and said, you know, ding, ding, ding, please take your seat, you know, or if you need to go to the restaurant, you know, the restroom, there are of the non-binary specific on either side. And we're like, Holy shit, you know, look at this. But you know, again, you're in Austin, Texas. So, so what does it mean to be trans? What does it mean to be binary or even non-binary? Let's just start there.

Sure. Yeah. Well, so we're all assigned, right, the day we're born, the way our society works with a gender, and that's based on genitalia, frankly. Right. And so, so without going— and, and I could even complicate that further, but without going into too much detail, to, to again break it down as simply as possible. So we're assigned, you know, a gender at birth. Trans simply means that you identify with a different gender than you were assigned at birth.

Okay.

You have transitioned, and that doesn't necessarily have to mean surgery and hormones. It just means you yourself have identified differently. Um, so yeah, we're all learning here.

Yes, we are.

So yeah, and so non-binary people can be trans too, right? Because if you're, for example, assigned, you know, male at birth and then you identify as non-binary, um, you've transitioned out of that sort of very strict—

Why wouldn't that just be trans?

Well, a lot of people see trans as kind of an umbrella and non-binary falls within it.

Okay, okay.

So trans can be, you know, a trans male, trans female. It could also be transitioning to non-binary. And of course, I just want to say, like, obviously individuals may like slightly interpret these things differently for themselves, but in terms of sort of the common wisdom and break for the sake of simplicity, that's, I guess, that's how I describe it.

Okay, okay. So what about, okay, so like, as a matter of fact, A lot of students that I run across really like the word queer. And so people, especially females, seem to identify with queer. You know, I'm a queer woman. And that's something that I feel like has sort of come back around, kind of like the high-waisted pants have. So tell me, why is queer such an important term now? Rather than just gay?

Right. Well, I think it acknowledges what I was saying earlier, which is language is always going to fall short and it's going to erase sometimes some specific nuances. And I get for an older generation, especially that was yelled at as a slur on the street, that it can be very hard to see that, um, yeah, you know, that people are embracing it so fully. But we reclaim a lot of words, right, that were, were once used against us, um, and that's an act of power. But yeah, I think it's— I think part of it is because, as I was saying, like exploration is a little bit more— I don't know if allowed is the right word— and because of that, you know, I think a lot of people identify as queer because it doesn't have to put you in a specific box within the acronym. I mean, I get, you know, that— I mean, that's how I feel about it. I think it's helpful when we were talking about solidarity and working together other than just on an individual level, right? Like, you may be in a same-sex marriage and I may be trans, but we're both queer, you know, I feel like that's very helpful. You know, like we can work together towards queer liberation and, you know, and that encompasses the multitude of experiences that we have.

Absolutely. Tell me about that moment when you said, bam, here I am, parentals, we gotta talk. How did that occur and was there any backlash from that?

Yeah, well, I think like a lot of things that we try to talk about as being one moment, right? It's not just one moment. It's these small steps that you take along the way, right? You do it in these little increments when you feel comfortable. I mean, you know, your theme, Work It Out podcast, you know, whenever you see success, right? Like when, or when people from the outside start seeing success, you know, they see it as like, oh, you just did this one thing.

That one last thing.

And you're like, no, I've been working on this in little ways for 10 years. Yeah, exactly. Exactly, like all the failures and all the backlash I had to go through. So I think it's like that, right? You know, I mean, as I said, there was an evolution to my identity and I kind of came out in these other ways along the way. Yeah, so I mean, there's been both backlash and support at every turn. You know, I do come from Longview, Texas. It's a conservative, conservative fundamentalist Christian family. Yup. And it's, yeah, I mean, it's not easy and I think like that it's an eternal struggle to find where the line is between enabling your own, abuse might be strong, but enabling your own mistreatment and giving people a chance to grow. And who are you afraid is going to hear this? Right, right.

I don't want to name names. I don't want to talk about anybody. I'm just going to answer very generically.

Right, exactly. Like, I don't know if I want to like go on the record calling anybody out.

Okay, okay.

But yeah, no, and I get like new ideas are hard, but at the same time, how many chances do you give somebody? So yeah, I don't know. I mean, this also goes into, I think, being socialized into the quiet femininity of the South too is like, you know, it's kind of that WASPy thing of like, we don't talk about these things.

Right, right, right. But you're so vocal. How do you balance that? Because like right now you're like, I don't want to put it in. I don't want to go on record, you know, calling anybody out. But my God, you were taking testosterone shots earlier, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah. So it's just the things that affect you and that you don't want to name name. Not that I'm asking you to name names.

Right, right.

So was it just yes or no? Were you accepted by your immediate family right off the bat?

No.

Okay, okay. So that took some growing.

Yeah, I mean, I mean, I'm still not, I wouldn't say. I mean, you know, my— I mean, I'll just say this, my parents, you know, my parents don't call me Dylan, you know, they don't use the right pronouns for me. And so, you know, and even when I was just coming out as gay, it was that very— this thing I hate that you hear Christians say a lot, which is like, I don't believe in it, but I still love you. And it's sort of like, how— you're right, how can you love me if you are compartmentalizing.

Hate the sin but love the sinner, right?

Yeah, absolutely loathe that shit.

I know.

Um, and you know, and then it was like the audacity of like, well, just we didn't cut you off, so you should be like grateful and give us credit for that. And it's like, okay, congrats for doing the very least. Um, you know, I don't think that's love. To me, that's not love. But yeah, um, anyway, so, you know, you have, you have some of the stereotypical backlash, you know, when I came out to people we know in common, high school friends, right? Like, for the most part, it was that. In fact, if anything, it was kind of like, like, they could tell I had, you know, important news, and they were like, "Are you pregnant or are you gay?

Just tell me." One or the other.

I know it's one or the other, so just tell me. They're like, "Okay, cool, well, whatever." Like, if anything, it was almost dismissive. Like, yeah, you know. But on the other hand, there were other friends, you know, who who said like very stereotypical things like, "Well, I guess that's fine as long as you don't," when I was coming out as a lesbian, said, "That's fine as long as you don't cut all your hair off and become a boy," which is hilarious because—

Kusdi!

So sorry to that friend except that we're not in touch anymore. But, you know, and some people were like, "I just don't want to talk about it. Like, let's just not, let's just try to be friends without ignoring it." Let's pretend that elephant isn't in the room. Right. Yeah. Which again, to me, you know, that's, that's not love. Right. Okay.

So do you find yourself— like, how often do you go back to Longview?

Just for like some very few holidays, I would say, and the occasional big wedding or something.

Yeah. Because I find myself like, I don't, I don't, I don't go home as much, you know, because I feel like it took my family a while. Hence, you know, why, you know, I was so closeted for so long. But it makes it easier. So I know that you've made a home in Memphis, you know, and so it makes it easier and you feel more comfortable to be in an environment that's supportive of you, that encourages you, that inspires you, you know, because, you know, you are the average of the 5 people that you spend the most time with. And so sometimes when we get back to those people who are unaccepting, you know, there's a tendency to pull you back and pull you back into that closet. So all that to ask, what is it about Memphis? Because I feel like you're going to be there forever. You love it. And what is it about Memphis that makes you feel so at home there?

Yeah, there's just this really open environment where there aren't a lot of barriers to entry, I would say, for things. Unlike, you know, and I haven't lived anywhere else in my adult life, so I don't have a personal experience, but unlike cities at least that have a reputation for like a lot of credentialism like D.C., like, you know, like they want to see your, you know, your PhD and whatever, like Memphis is just very like, if you want to do the work, you can come and help us do the work, you know. I mean, it's a city with a lot of problems, and in a lot of ways, I think it's been part of my education and why I feel so passionate about a lot of these issues. The way that poverty and racism are, you know, pervasive in our culture. You know, it just has such a history. It has a certain trauma built in. But there's also equal to that a number of people who want to change things and want to do the work. And, you know, I mean, I loved hearing that you were going to name this podcast Work It Out because I'm serious when I say that, like, you made that a model for me. Like, that really was memorable, and when I think of high school in a lot of ways, I think of that as a motto. You don't get out of Longview, Texas and like become a queer atheist without a little bit of like work that out in you. Like, yeah, I think that, you know, in a lot of ways I think that's like what brought the friend group together, the friend group that like we were all your students. And so there's just a very— we call it grit and grind, but okay, in but there's a very work that out culture. Like, you know, if you want to do this work, then do this work with us.

Yeah.

And some people have, I think, more responsibility than others to do that because of, you know, power and privilege and things like that. But like, even the people who, you know, don't have time, like, are doing the work here. And I just appreciate that spirit and that culture, that kind of like underdog we're gonna go after it. I mean, like, I think, I think at a national level, no one likes to pay attention to Memphis unless they're like calling us crime-infested or want to whitewash MLK's legacy or something, you know. The 50th anniversary was just a couple of years ago, and that's like the only time we got any attention nationally. And, you know, it was mostly about the past, not the present. So But yeah, it's just been a really, it's just been a really good place for me. You know, I mean, there's, and like, you know, I won't romanticize it too much. Like there's also practical reasons, like the cost of living is extremely low and I was like a poor, you know, 20-something trying to like an apartment, you know, and I've been able to do that in Memphis. So yeah, but, but, you know, I don't know if I'll stay here forever as you, as you predict. But I do love it.

No, you'll be in DC. Yeah, we'll get to that later. So I find it, you know, because a lot of people like— and you sort of mentioned it earlier in the conversation about, you know, just because you check one box doesn't mean you automatically can relate to all the other checkboxes. So what is it about, you know, you're celebrating your 30th birthday in 2 days.

Yeah.

Right. Instead, I know we're COVID and all this kind of stuff, but things have opened back up. But instead of, you know, I'm dirty baby, going after it, you're like, I'm doing this virtual happy hour to raise money for Black Lives Matter.

Yeah.

What is the motivation for that? I mean, you can be doing so many other things, but here you are putting your time and energy and you're not Black.

Yeah, yeah.

I find that so powerful.

Yeah, I mean, I, you know, I appreciate it. I mean, I don't want to make it too much about me. I mean, there— we're in this moment especially, um, where I think we're finally— and by we're, I mean white people— having to come full-on in confrontation with all the ways that we've benefited from, I mean, white supremacy. Let's call it what it is, right? This idea that like everyone wants to think that they've accomplished everything on their own and like, you know, you can work hard and also have a, have a job because, you know, you only were competing against white people because in reality no one was ever going to give that type of job to a Black person, you know. I mean, you know this more than I do, certainly. But like, I think it's just really important. I mean, again, like, my whole organizing principle in life is just solidarity, you know. It's already come up a couple of times. I can never truly relate to what it's like to be you, to be any Black person who walks the streets of America, but I do feel like sometimes that feeling of alienation I was talking about earlier gave me a sort of sense of empathy that has made me sensitive to, even if I can't relate to an experience exactly, I want to have solidarity with those people. I want to be a good ally to those people. And, you know, and I would hope for the same. I mean, I don't want to make it sound like a quid pro quo, but you know what I mean, in terms of like, you know, and I feel so bad that I'm blanking on exactly who said this, but you know, "None of us are free till all of us are free," right? So we're working for liberation for queer folks, for Black folks, and obviously those things intersect for a lot of people, and class solidarity, all those things. So I think like in a lot of ways I'm grateful even for the harder parts of being queer and trans because they made this sort of space for me to have a greater sense of empathy for the experience of anyone who's sort of like oppressed by the dominant structures that we have in this country. So yeah, I mean, I would love to party, especially, you know, if we weren't in a pandemic. I would like to do this in a physical space and raise money that way. Yeah. But I just feel a great sense of responsibility because sort of despite the odds, I have found myself in a position of great privilege. I mean, I always have white privilege, but in terms of like, you know, I was a first-generation college student coming from a family that's fairly poor, um, and, you know, I have a nice job now, and, you know, I live in downtown Memphis in a great apartment, and, um, and so I feel like, you know, there's a responsibility in that to use whatever I have.

Right.

So that's, yeah, I mean, it's just, I just feel like it's really important to feel that sense of solidarity, especially as more and more the sort of divides between us are growing in terms of like wealth inequality and, you know, right, like that.

Right. So let's, let's transition to, uh, J.K. Rowling.

Yeah.

You know, so yeah, and even before I was prepping for our conversation, I had seen— I'm not on Twitter, but Shelley is. And so every now and then she'll go, oh my God, look at this. Oh my God, look at that. But so she said— what was it that she said? People who menstruate, I'm sure there used to be a word for those people. Someone help me out. Womban? Wimpan? Womud, you know, like, what are these damn terms? And then she goes, I respect every trans person's right to live any way that feels authentic and comfortable to them. I'd march with you if you were discriminated against on the basis of trans. At the same time, my life has been shaped by being female. I do not believe it is hateful to say so.

Yeah, it's, uh, it's a lot to digest. I mean, I— she does it in this very typical white woman way where it's like, believe, like, bless your heart, believe me, I love you and I'm on your side.

I march with you.

And I march with you. And then goes on to be like, but you shouldn't exist. So, um, yeah. And then she wrote a blog post today, which I actually haven't read because I just don't think I can take it. But anyway, yeah, she's been hitting it for the last 6 months or so, you know, that she is transphobic, which unfortunately is becoming a pretty common position in the UK in particular among among women.

Transphobic?

Transphobia is really rampant in even so-called progressive women's—

Does that mean you have a phobia against trans? I mean, if I just break that down, against trans people?

Yeah, I mean, prejudice. Yeah, you know, like homophobia. So, um, so I haven't read it, so I can't comment specifically on the blog post today. Uh, but yeah, I mean, it's, you know, it's, it's disgusting and heartbreaking for someone to use their power and privilege. I mean, she's written like the most, you know, successful children's book ever. She has this platform now and she has billions of dollars and she can't find anything better to do apparently than, you know, punch down at a very vulnerable group in society. And my fear is that she's going to normalize this position as something to be discussed and debated. Like, not that people already don't have this prejudice, right? But the way that she's framing it as a threat to women I think is completely antithetical to the reality, which is, you know, which came up before, which is that I think the very strict gender binary has hurt women as much as it's hurt trans people. You know, there's a lot of— there's a breadth of women's experiences that don't fall neatly into the, you know, the box that they've been pushed in. Right. More than You know, I was pushed in that box as a woman, socialized as a woman. So I mean, it's disappointing to see anyone use their power to hurt people that are much more vulnerable than them. But yeah, I mean, I just think that trying to couch it in this like, well, this hurts me as a woman, but actually we're still on the same side thing is what I think makes it really dangerous because it can be very effective, right? It reframes her as the victim. And it makes people sympathetic to it, you know? And that's really dangerous. Like, you know, someone just coming out and being like, "I hate trans people because you're gross and you're not real," is one thing, and it's bad, obviously. But the specific way that she's operating under this, like, guise of victimhood is just— I mean, it's just really unfortunately effective, which is why it's so dangerous.

Of course, yeah. So We've seen a lot in the news, you know, as you know, because of George Floyd, you know, mainly, um, just so many more things are coming to light. So what does it mean to you? Like, because I, like, I had all these questions about, oh, we're going to defund the police department. We're going to, you know, cut its legs out from under it. You know, what does that mean to you in Memphis? Because I know they did that in Camden, New Jersey, and started over and they're like, oh my God, we're, we're better for it.

Yeah. Yeah, well, I mean, you know, the very— every city has its own very specific political landscape, even if it has a lot of things in common. And Memphis, like most American cities, has a completely outrageously outsized police budget. Police is something like 40% of our whole city budget. And this is one of the— I mean, we have the second poorest zip code in the nation in Memphis. I mean, this is a very— yeah, this is Memphis is a majority Black, very poor city, and, but unfortunately, it's run by mostly very rich white people. And so, you know, I'm hopeful for this moment that we have normalized conversations about defunding and abolishing the police. And, you know, And I hope those things are successful. But yeah, no, I mean, I, you know, I'm not an expert on, you know, prison and police abolition, even though I've paid attention to those movements and I support those movements. So I won't claim to be one. But I mean, we've already defunded so many programs in cities already. Education, you know, there's such a huge disparity in schools and majority Black neighborhoods get so many fewer resources than wealthy white neighborhoods do because of property taxes, right? And so it's, you know, acting like people don't understand what the word defund means. Well, we've already defunded libraries, education, like we're already very familiar with what it means to defund something, right? It's just lowering the budget. Right. And to me, I see that as a step to abolition, right, of of hopefully the whole prison industrial complex and mass incarceration. And so, I think that the fact that we're having these conversations, I mean, these are pretty, you know, the ideas have been around a long time, but they would have, they were considered radical like a week ago, right? And now everyone's talking about them. So I think that that shows the power of a social movement. And I think that's great.

Absolutely. What do you say to someone who comes to you, you know, and I've seen examples that it's white and it's Black, which is so mind-blowing to me that Black people, you know. So in reference to George Floyd, we all are aware of how he died, his last 8 minutes and 46 seconds. You know, it came out on the news today that he knew Chauvin, like they worked together, and they had beef.

Right, which is very suspicious, and I think it upgrades it to like possibly first-degree murder.

Oh, absolutely, absolutely, you know. And so I'm like, So you still have these people who are, you know, it doesn't even, you know, assign it to color, but you still have these people are like, "Oh my God, he is not a martyr. He is not a saint. He's a thug. He didn't deserve to die, but he deserved to be in jail." Like, what do you say to someone who comes up to you with that perspective and that attitude and that opinion?

Right. Well, it's like, if you're Black and you get killed, suddenly it's your fault, which is outrageous, right? He didn't kill himself. If you put your knee on anybody's neck for 8 minutes, they're gonna die, you know. And so I think it's, I mean, it's outrageous. But it's so common, right? I mean, even the disparities in like, you watch your local news program, if you see a Black person on there, it's probably going to be a mugshot, right? And that doesn't mean that Black men are doing any more crime. It's just these prejudices we have in our society that get replicated time and time again. I mean, at the same time, you'll have, you know, a white college student proven to rape someone. I mean, Brock Turner, you know, raped someone behind a dumpster and only got 3 months, and the whole conversation was about, oh, his lost potential. Well, he, you know, he raped somebody, right? He raped somebody. He made his choice, and he deserves consequences for that. So, you know, a white man does something horrible and it's all about his lost potential and what a good thing. I mean, even Ted Bundy, I remember the judge at his trial when he sentenced him said something like, "Oh, you could have been a great lawyer in my courtroom and it's just such a shame." And I'm like, he killed, like—

Don't talk about his untapped potential!

Right, exactly. But meanwhile, you know, they say, you know, "He was no angel," you know, when a Black man is killed by police. So I mean, it's just obvious, you know, racism. And in terms of like, let's not play— I think some people just like troll us, right? Like, let's not play we know the difference between, you know, when someone is killed and when someone is the perpetrator of that crime. Like, people love to use the passive voice of like, "Oh, he died." And I'm like, no, a police officer killed him. That, you know, you still have responsibility that even if you put on a a badge, you know. And also there's just— we can also look at the numbers and say, okay, but this thing happened disproportionately. Like in terms of, oh, it's black and white. Like some people will try to detract and say, right, like, well, police kill white people too. And I'm like, well, then good. Maybe that's your in for getting mad about it. But also let's look at how disproportionately it's black people that are killed. Let's look at how disproportionately black people are put in jail by design, right? I mean, they you know, obviously criminalize these things on purpose to try to get Black people into prisons and basically reinvent modern slavery. Shout out to, you know, Ava DuVernay's 13th.

Oh yeah, yeah, I have a lot of friends who are like, "I just watched 13th." Okay, good job.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, and then it, you know, and everybody feels very overly motivated to put out a statement about it, which I think there, I know there's a responsibility, but like even all like, like other coaches have to go, let's have a roundtable about it. You know, Travia, are you coming?

No, no, I already know all of this. I live it.

Right. Why do I need to come and participate? You people have that roundtable.

Right. And the thing is like, we all already knew that there were, like, you know, white people already knew that these were problems. We just are now being forced to confront it in this very public way.

Why do you— so that's a great transition, right? So looking at the stance in our country, you know, and, you know, I don't want to lead you in any particular way, you know, because I don't have to do that. But, you know, one of your tweets, you said, you know, driving into protesters is not an accident. It is widespread tactic we're seeing by white supremacists across the country. Why do you think people are feeling so brazen even more now by the minute in 2020.

I mean, I think part of it is the president of the United States has— he ran from the very beginning on racist dog whistles, just out-and-out fascism, in my opinion. And, you know, he's catered to these groups, he's empowered these groups, he's made it normal. I mean, let's be clear, white people were saying this behind the scenes to each other all the time.

Right.

But now they'll say it in public and take this action in public in new ways.

And dare us to do something about it.

Yeah, exactly. Because they say, like, who's gonna, you know, do you think the DOJ is gonna bring hate crime charges against me in this administration? No, they're emboldened by it. So we've We've, I mean, at the same time that these last couple of weeks with George Floyd and all of the uprising that's come out of it, we've normalized some conversations that should have happened a long time ago and some movements that I'm glad are getting attention. But at the same time, in the last 3 years, also at the same time, what's been normalized is that just out-and-out open white supremacy and white supremacist violence. And those things will always be at play. You know, you hear this sort of myth all the time of like, well, if just like the older generation dies out, like the new generation is like more progressive, and things are going to go away on their own or something, which is absolutely not the case. I mean, that's the thing about these white supremacists driving into people from Charlottesville to all over the country in the last week. Like, these are mostly young men. Right? And it may not be a 1-to-1 ratio, but there's, there's still this rampant white supremacy because we haven't seriously addressed it. And until we change those systems, there's always going to be people who are empowered by it and want to continue benefiting from it. Right? I mean, that's the thing, like people benefit from white supremacy.

Right. And so something that I have never been able to separate in my mind, and I've always been able to do it before until now, like, I mean, When I lived in Texas, like for one presidential election, I'll admit it, I voted for George W. I thought he had, you know, as governor of Texas, he had just given us a $3,000 teacher raise. I'm like, yes, he is speaking to me. I voted Republican, you know, for that presidential. I think that was probably the only time in my life that I have. And so I've always been able to separate, you know, political issues and religious issues. I find it harder and harder now with this guy with 45 in the White House, mainly because now I've gotten to a point to where I automatically assume if you're voting for him, you feel exactly the way he does on every single issue.

Oh, but it's just like the economy.

Look at my 401k. I don't give a fuck about your 401k. Look at what he says about people, you know. And so I just feel like, like, I cannot— I can't overlook it anymore. How does that affect you? Like, when you know— and I can— I know that, you know, probably Longview is, you know, there are a bunch of Trumpers there. You know, I have friends that I still call in Texas who are Trumpers, and I just can't get past it. How do you get past that?

Well, I don't. I mean, I, you know, I mean, I can disagree with someone about like whether, you know, Mad Men is a good show or something. I can't disagree with people about whether like Black people should be able to walk through the streets without being killed, or if like, you know, the Jews are to blame. Like, I mean, he's just saying these out-and-out fascist— like, it's like a flashback to the 1930s. I mean, I know that's overused, but in this case, like, this literally is that moment. So I don't get over it. I mean, I find myself more and more trying to find— I alluded to this earlier— trying to find the line in terms of like, I do feel like it's my responsibility as a white person to kind of call in other white people and try to see if they're willing to engage and learn and grow. But at the same time, I can only do that over and over for so many years until I say, like, fuck it, you're in the— sorry, you're in the mess and you're not— you're obviously not willing to come out of it. And I mean, your point about religious and political— the religious and the political being intersected is interesting because, you know, as I said earlier, I grew up in this very fundamentalist white evangelical religion. And those things have never been separated. I mean, ever since the Reagan era and probably before, I mean, he very particularly rebranded conservatism, right, as being this kind of very conservative evangelical Christian movement. And so those things are very intertwined. And that's how, you know, he was like, as long as your checkbook is okay, Yeah, don't really worry about what else we do because just promise me that we're God's party, you know. Yeah, you know, so those things are very intertwined. And I think they're like reaching a certain fever pitch now where the fascist impulses meet that white evangelical conservative branch of the party that has just been radicalized and radicalized by the far right until like we're here today and it's all coming to a head. And Trump stands in front of a church that he doesn't even go inside holding up a Bible upside down and backwards. Right, right. You know, and he called it 2 Corinthians a few years ago. Like he, he's never read it. Yeah, I do not believe he's ever read a Bible.

But I don't think so.

I don't want to make it ad hominem. Like his religion is his whatever. But he's just so obviously using that base.

Well, yeah. And they love that.

And they love it. Yeah.

Look at the Christian he is. Look at him holding a Bible.

Because he's saying everything they've wanted to say in public. And that's the whole truth of it. You know? Yeah, the whole thing.

He speaks for them. You know, there was a certain part of me that I never believed, you know, like I remember when he was running for president. I never thought he would win. First of all, I thought Hillary had that.

I did.

And which was part of the problem because we all assumed—

well, yeah. And she did win by 3 million votes. And I don't know, sore loser. I mean, that our system is fundamentally broken. Oh, it is, right?

But still lose because of the Electoral College. I know, such an antiquated— yeah, I know. Um, but what I find, what I really originally thought, you know, because, you know, I don't own it. Well, you know, I'm a coach now, so I'm self-employed, but I don't own this big corporation. Sure. And so all I knew about Donald Trump was that he was, you know, you're fired on The Apprentice. And so I was like, OK. So once— which I knew he was spewing a bunch of just racist— I really thought he was doing a lot of that stuff just to get votes. And I said, oh, when he gets in there, he really is going to be more Democratic than anything. Boy, was I wrong. And I think that was me trying to wishful think and wishful hope. And I say this all the time. Michelle Obama said, her quote, the presidency doesn't change who you are.

—reveals who you are. That's absolutely right.

And I just can't believe where we are. So, you know, I mean, we can— you and I can agree on this all day long. Let's talk about how this pandemic, how it's affected you and your emotional health and just, you know, because you tweeted the other day you've been in that one room for 3 months. That one room, because you should have gotten a house rather than that studio, you know? So yeah, so how has this whole pandemic affected you?

Yeah, I mean, you know, it's— I'm sure it's been difficult for everyone. Yeah, I did, I rented the studio a year ago and so other than a few errands and lately some protests, yeah, I've been in the same room with me and my cat and I think it's really underlined for me the importance of support networks and also physical touch. I mean, we have all these great digital tools and I'm so grateful. I mean, right now, you know, we're talking. Yeah, yeah. And in some ways it's made me realize even though these digital tools existed, I didn't— often I felt like I mostly needed to stay with people in Memphis and just would occasionally call some other friends on their thing. But now I'm like, why haven't I taken better advantage of the fact that I can talk to anyone in the world at any moment? Yeah, yeah. So in, in that way, it has underlined what's, what's important and that we do have these tools to connect. But at the same time, you know, physical presence is very important. I'm an overly sensitive person. Like, I don't say that as a good thing. Like, I'm overly sensitive. But a lot of that, a lot of my association with people is very much reading body language. Reading the slightest, you know.

That's the theater in you! Right? Yeah. Is that you?

Is that you? Yeah, so I miss that. I miss that. Um, miss being able to take those cues and read off of them. There is something to present. So I mean, you know, I struggle with, with mental health on a good non-pandemic day, but it has been difficult being alone all the time. Um, and yeah, I mean, I In some ways it started, I started to get used to it. I think my, uh, my ups and downs aren't as, as bad as they were at the beginning when I remembered a different world to miss, I guess. Um, but yeah, I mean, I'm trying to reach out to people as much as I can, and I think people have been really resilient and really creative in terms of, you know, Netflix Party and Jackbox games and Zoom happy hours, and so that's helped.

For sure. Right. Oh, that's, that's perfect. I, on the other hand, have loved it. Yeah. How crazy is that? You know why? Because I found a new version of myself that is okay with saying no. And I used to be the person because I would just become a chameleon for whatever group I was hanging out with. You know, if you need me to be the comic, I'm going to be there for you tonight. If you need to be overdramatic, we're going to play whatever it was. I'm going to be there for you. Yeah. So I didn't have to go, oh, I've got to go hang out with such and such. Or, you know, cause I generally say yes. So there was none of that. So now it's gotten to a point where I was like, I'm good. I like, you know, you know, because again, I'm not alone. And so it's been, it's been really nice. The only thing I would say now, I've put on probably like 15, 20 pounds. Yeah, that I cannot get rid of. So I would say that's the downfall part of it, but it's allowed me to get clarity on my path. It's allowed me to tune into who I am, you know. So, you know, something that I do as a coach, and I've started meditating and everything, and then sometimes I do extra training And as part of some of my coaching training, we're supposed to do this 4 hours of just do nothing, like no talking to anyone. There's no, no phone. Yeah. Just, I mean, you can go for walks. You're not supposed to sleep, but 4 hours of just, and let me tell you, I was, I've never been, I haven't been able to do it today. I took, uh, Cayenne and Basil, the dog and the cat, to the vet. And because they're doing curbside pickup, I was able to sit in the car for 30 minutes, no radio, you know, no one, because it took them that long. And so even then you become aware of your thoughts. Yeah. You read this one sign that says boom, boom, boom, you know, somebody, oh, Trump supporter that was on the corner automatically. So we're triggered by all these things. And so, but what happens if you would just like, let's just turn it off. Let's just have a non-digital evening, you know? So if you're doing those things, what else can you do that's happy, that makes you feel good, where you're not thinking about the hard stuff, where you're not thinking about political, all this kind of stuff? What are you doing when you're turning off your computer, you're turning off your phone? What are you doing for Dylan?

Yeah, that's a great question. And, you know, I'll be honest, I'm not good at that. You know, you've referenced my tweets. Like, I'm basically constantly tapped into Twitter or some kind of screen. I have taken up just a few minutes of meditation. I'm trying to increase the amount of minutes that I do that every day. But I do skip days, and I'm very bad at unplugging. And I think part of it is, you know, confronting thoughts that you've been trying to avoid is a very difficult thing to do, right? Yeah. You know, I don't have any good answers. I would say I've also— and it's gone downhill in the later years, in the later days, I mean, of the pandemic, feels like years. But I had also been getting more in tune with my body and getting more exercise, nothing intense, but just getting more exercise. And just kind of like listening to what I needed, trying to make sure that I wasn't just eating but being nutritious, and also just like trying to be self-aware enough about my feelings so that I would reach out to someone before it got too dark, like that kind of thing. Um, and so I would just say like trying to build a support network around me that's stronger, and, um, and meditation, and, you know, and just And just also like not feeling guilty for not being productive all the time. I think especially working from home during the pandemic, all of the boundaries are really blurred between when's work time and when's home time, especially again, because I'm literally in one room, right? I have like a work quadrant and like a home quadrant and the sleep quadrant. So I think like all those boundaries which already get blurred, I think sometimes especially with your phone's email chirping at every hour of the night. Has always been hard, but I think trying to separate myself away from that and being like, this time is just for me and I'm not gonna check work emails. And if I just want to like veg out, I'm not gonna feel like, oh, this is what I should be doing right now. It's more of a mind— if anything, it's a mindset of like allowing myself the freedom to just be. Right.

And so is that something that you're struggling with? That whole mindset. Okay. So when those thoughts and those beliefs keep coming up, what are you doing to sort of— I'm not a person who believes that, oh, we got to confront every single thing we've ever been through. But I am a proponent for reframing it. And so I realized that as much as I hate to admit it sitting here talking to you, that for a long time I had a very fixed mindset. And you, and I would have argued to the hills that I didn't. Yeah. Not until I started working with clients. I was like, oh shit, that's me. You know, that I've actually worked with this. And so what I find that works for me, like I'm doing a challenge where I meditate 3 times a day. And so there, yeah, there are some times when I go, damn it, this is, what are people going to think if I put this out there? What if I do a live right now? And then I realized my thinking is controlling it. Only because I'm afraid of being judged. I'm afraid of being criticized. I'm afraid of looking like I'm not credible. And so I already know that about myself. And so I immediately take a moment and I go, okay, thank you for that wake-up call, brain. Thank you, subconscious. And I go, yeah, I might be a little nervous, but you know what? That nervous energy is going to fuel me. I'm going to be a better speaker today. You know, so I'm getting much better at reframing that. So I don't ignore it anymore, but I just reframe it in a more positive manner. And then I'm recognizing it's, it's when I haven't— when I've sat down in front of the computer too long, it's when I haven't planned to exercise and I've just been doing that one thing. So just getting up and moving your body and just making it a proactive kind of thing also helps. So maybe that, that's something that can help.

That's helpful. Yeah, no, that's helpful. And I'm really impressed with you being so aware and being able to break those things down. And I, I definitely will think about incorporating some of those things because I don't have a good, a good go-to to get myself out of those thoughts. And I'm really bad at, you know, pushing down my feelings and not addressing them. So, so that's helpful. That's helpful. Are there other things that you reframe, like You know, you talked specifically about like nervousness and kind of fear. Are there other things that you reframe and how do you reframe them?

Let me tell you a big one. This is a big one. Okay. And, and okay. So I've had this issue. I didn't realize until I went through this journey the last couple of months. I've always, my entire life, I've always been afraid of getting cancer my entire life. When I would drive to school, like there was an MD Anderson Cancer Center on the right and I would be like, Don't look that way, you'll turn to stone. Don't look at that, you'll turn to stone. And there's never been any cancer in my family, but subconsciously I've always been afraid of getting cancer. And then what do I hear in January? You have cancer. Wow. And but, but let me tell you the crazy part about it. This is really— I've always hated my breasts. I feel like it was cancer allowed me to get the body I've always wanted. Now I'm ready to get rid of this belly. Right. But through cancer, right, I was able to, you know, I was never gonna, I was never gonna have top surgery. Right. I don't come from that culture that, that allows that to be okay. Right. So I always had those thoughts, whether I realized it or not. And I remember I came to that realization. As a matter of fact, I was, I was I was, I was on a coaching call with my coach. Yeah. And I cried like a baby. I was like, holy shit, because that was so big. And so now in reframing that, I put that into motion. I made it happen. And so now I'm like, thank you. Cancer happened for me. Wow.

And you have power over your own narrative too. Yes. Yes.

And I'm such a believer in that, you know? And so So when I meditate, you know, I meditate on, you know, I want to reprogram my subconscious to align with the desires of my heart. And so whatever it is that I'm feeling and living through my values and aligning through those things, whether it's to be pain-free and healthy for every day, whether it's to get more clients, whether it's to, you know, be of help to someone, each day of my life, you know, whatever that is, coming from a very, very pure place. And so whenever those thoughts come up, I ask myself, okay, is that one of my values? My top values are love and connection. Am I being loving and am I connecting with someone in an authentic manner right now? And so that just automatically goes, because it also goes, am I being loving to myself, right? Wow. Yeah. So yeah, so that That totally keeps me aligned. And when I fall, when I try to go off of that line, not on purpose, I just keep going back to that.

That's so helpful. Has that taken practice? I mean, is that something that you— Yes.

Oh, totally. I mean, you have to be— yeah, this is every day. Like this challenge I'm doing for 70 days, I'm on day 46 with meditating 3 times a day. It's total practice. I journal. I journal my thoughts. And so, and it's, it's practice and it's beliefs because for most of my life I didn't believe, even though you probably would go, yeah, you did. I didn't because I'm really good at acting. I always appeared to be probably one of the most confident people in the room. Yeah. And I wasn't.

I would have said that.

Yeah. Yeah. And, but I could always turn it on, you know, but I still like, I remember you know, feeling judged and feeling like I wasn't enough and I wasn't smart enough and I didn't have all the answers. And I still fight through those things right now because I'm still going through, will people think I'm credible? Because, you know, I went through this whole thing was, well, I've been teaching for 24 years, now I'm jumping ship to do something else. But I've been coaching for 24 years.

Yeah.

Yeah. You know, it doesn't make a difference. I've just expanded my learning. Right. You know, so I'm like, why am I trying to discount that? I shouldn't. That is just extra experience. And so, yeah, it takes total practice and I'm very deliberate. I'm deliberate on in how I spend my time during the day. You know, so I know what my body needs and I wake up with those plans. And so if you put like, you know, if you had your ideal day and there were like 12 to 16 things, you're like, I don't have to go to work. I don't have to do such and such. I get to do all the things that make me feel and in absolute flow, incredible. What are those 16 things? So you make that list and then you choose, you can't do all 16 every day, right? But you pull like 3 or 4 from that list, you know? And ones that are consistent with me is meditation, exercise, a midday nap, and usually a beer. And so I bookmark those. I was like, okay, I'm feeling a little stagnant right now and I'm not being productive. Let me go lay down because I, my midday meditation and then I go into a nap and then I'm like, it's a new day. Yeah. That's helpful.

I feel like I'm getting a free training session here. Yes. Thank you for that advice.

The whole world is going to need that. Absolutely. Yeah. So let's, let's turn this back to you because I really, for what I see for you, I really think I'm going to be, I'm going to be voting for you one day. What do you think about that? Do you have any aspirations?

Well, you know, whenever people are on the major cable networks, some senator being asked if they're gonna run for president, you know, they always do that like wink and a nod thing. Yeah. Oh, it's not about me. What am I gonna do? Yeah. So maybe you're right, because my impulse is to like hedge a little bit. I have thought about it. A lot of my work that I have done has been very background. I mean, I've worked on political campaigns, but obviously not as the candidate. And then my regular professional jobs too are more sort of backgrounding jobs. I would say writing is the thing I've done that where it was most about like me and my voice. Yeah. Which I enjoyed. But so yeah, I've thought about it. I don't know. I mean, you know, the undercurrent of everything you were just talking about was vulnerability, right? And that's so difficult. And there's very few things more vulnerable than being a candidate, especially the way our news cycles work, where you put out your whole life for people to dredge through. And I'm not proud of every day of my life, and God knows I don't want to be asked questions about every facet of my journey, you know, on the news every night. And, um, so that in some ways sounds mortifying. And so I have thought about— because I think politics are really important— if, if I'm not the candidate, I can still I see myself working on policy and trying to change that. I mean, they're just so— I don't know of any other way of making change which has the potential— now it always doesn't work out this way— but has the potential to directly affect as many lives as the government and the state does, right? And the more, you know, like when I look back at historical precedent, I mean, you know, FDR did some horrible things, but he also completely reinvented the country in some radical ways with the New Deal. And, you know, we have many of the same circumstances now. And I think we're— and I'm grateful that people like AOC are, in fact, you know, proposing what they're calling the Green New Deal. So it's an obvious parallel there. But there's just like no one has as much money as the state. Right, to put into programming that could change people's lives, to just give people a social safety net so that they don't have to work 3 jobs and still— Right. Oh, goodness. So, so, so I don't know if I'll run for anything or not. I've thought about it. I'm not counting it out. But I can see myself pivoting to, to policy and, and/or politics work. So, so you're right on the money there. But I guess it's really no surprise because it's, you know, half of my feed all day.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Very cool. So we're going to wrap up shortly, but I do want to touch on your post from December 31st where you said you hope that people find contentment, all their needs for resources, love in all its forms, and growth. Have you found those things yourself?

I am working on it. I think the love in all of its forms is particularly important to me in this moment. I think that whenever you don't find it in the ways you're hoping to find it, in the places that you're looking, in your family or in relationships that have gone bad or whatever it may be, there can be a tendency to think that there's something wrong with you and that you're not worthy of that kind of love and that you're not going to find it. Um, and yeah, and so I think reinventing, um, what I see as my support networks and finding people who can like kind of be on this journey with me, even if it's not who you would expect, um, I think is important. And so I'm just trying to be open to that and trying to be that person for other people to whatever extent I can. So perfect. Ask me next year.

Ask you next year, you're going to be in that place, in a special place. That's so, that's so good. What does the next 10 years of your, of your life look like? If you— I mean, because, you know, most people will be like, I don't know. No, no, you can know. You know, planning— what is that path? What does it look like for the next 10 years? What are some couple big things you hope to accomplish that you will we don't have to hope, that you will accomplish?

Yeah, yeah. I mean, I would like to feel responsible for some meaningful change, by which I mean both in my life and in the world. And I think that can take, you know, in some ways that's vague, but in another way I think that's really important because it is really easy, and I am guilty of this, of just kind of like letting life take you and letting things happen circumstance dictate where you go, and I don't want that to be my life. So I both want to take control of my own life by choosing a new career or choosing a new city, and I also want to make some sort of meaningful change for the world. So if I do go into policy, maybe that's a policy that I see passed. I'm still very much— I'm in very much a moment. I think part of it is the pressure of 30, even though I know it's arbitrary and it's still young. There is this like there is this idea of like, I'm leaving my 20s and maybe I haven't done everything I wanted to do. So there's this pressure certainly that comes from the inside, not the outside. But, and I'm very much in this moment where I can see some big, big changes for me. And then I'll just be really honest, like, again, vulnerability. I always feel like I don't want to admit this, but I want like a partner, you know? I do, I want that. I, you know, like life is hard and being in this pandemic room alone has only encouraged me to see how important it is for me to have someone, not that I need to survive, I can be on my own, but have that person who I can call up and that we can support each other and make it easier, right? Yeah, I get that. I definitely, definitely want that. So 10 years seems like long enough for me to find that.

Yes, yes, sooner rather than later. I think you are a gift. You will be a gift to anyone that, you know, I mean, I've always admired you. You know, and I especially— your voice that you have, your platform, you know, I mean, I can't even imagine what people will pull out of the closet, you know, your skeletons, you know, because— Oh God. Oh, I know, but you know, I know there's always something because that's been one of my biggest fears, but you know—

Wait, I just have to say like, this is so beautiful because I mean, it means so much for me to hear you say that you've admired me because I mean, you know, like, let's just make a love fest for a second. I mean, you're a huge influence on me, and you know, especially like, you were unlike anyone I certainly came into contact with, you know, in Longview, and it was just so important the way that you, you pulled together the people who are still friends of mine to this day. So crazy. And the way that you, which is, which is wild, and the way that you modeled that independence, that work it out spirit, you know, that like I don't want to hear it. Figure it out for yourself. You're smart enough. Just— yeah, you have all the answers. Don't come complaining to me. You have the answers. Go find them. I know, I really appreciated it, right? Like, you did not call us. And that's been really helpful for me. So I mean, so, you know, I— so I admired you for a long time. Actually, I was thinking about it. I'm pretty sure I wrote my college admissions essay about you.

Oh wow, wow, that touches me so much.

It would be hilarious to I have to go try to dredge that up from the files somewhere and see what I wrote. But anyway, so I mean, this is the great thing about keeping lifelong relationships, even if you only check in every once in a while, is that, you know, you get to find— now that, you know, I'm an adult, we're both adults— finding this mutuality. Absolutely. This mutual admiration is like what it's all about in a relationship.

Absolutely. I love that. And I need you to know, I am always here for you. And so if there's ever a moment where you feel like you're struggling, you're done, you call me up, we'll do a Zoom. I am always here for you. And I would love to help you in any way, like get those thoughts under control, whatever it is. Amazing.

Thank you so much. Absolutely. We're going to be in touch. Okay, good, good.

So for our listeners who just have fallen in love with you, where can they connect with you? Because you're going to get that partner.

Here we are. Well, I guess as I've already admitted, I am on Twitter basically 24/7, so you can find me on Twitter @jdylan901. And also that's my Instagram handle as well, so feel free to message me on either of those platforms. And yeah, looking for a politically motivated life partner. That's a small ask, right? Come hit me up. Small ask. Don't ask for much. Yeah. Yeah, just someone to spend the rest of their lives with me and support me through.

That's right. That's right. That sounds good.

Yeah, this is gonna be a great story though, if that actually were to happen. This would be great.

And then we'd come back and do another interview. Perfect. Perfect. Nice. Thank you so much, Dylan. I appreciate your time. I know we went long, we had some technical difficulties, but I love doing this. And I love feeling like the only thing we're missing is like sitting in a bar having drinks. Next time. Next time. Okay. All right guys, thank you so much for listening. If you want to know more about what I'm up to, head over to traviesteward.com. If you like seeing the videos of the podcast, every episode is on my YouTube channel. And if you like what you hear, please do me a favor and subscribe to the show. And remember, life is about connecting authentically. Living with purpose, and having no regrets.