Founder Health: In Conversation With Michelle Wax

Yeah, excited, excited for the chat here. Yeah, thanks for, thanks for joining us. And yeah, as we're getting, getting set up here, yeah, really excited, you know, to have this chat as part of— on Founder Health as part of the Prepare for VC event series we have going on. Just gonna share a quick introduction on what Prepare for VC is and Yeah, and basically— too many tabs open.

Story of my life, brother.

All right, one second here. Yeah, so basically we start— we have a startup community, and we started really to help founders figure out how to navigate the fundraising process. And now we've expanded into a variety of resources, community events, and, you know, an accelerator program that we run as well to really help founders figure out how they get to that next level in their business. So just going to share a quick introductory video. This is a question that we pose in all of our— or basically anybody that joins in our community, we like to ask them, what's your why? And, you know, we've gotten a lot of great responses in here already. So, you know, everything from realizing the potential of their businesses, improving and helping other startups, and just, you know, some personal journeys in there as well. And really just like to see the stories behind the founders and help showcase that to everybody that comes into our community. You know, our goals are really helping shape the startup stories, helping scale them, and helping share them with the rest of the world. So yeah, excited to have everyone on here. I'm gonna stop sharing, and, you know, we're gonna be hosting a series of other events as well. Definitely join and check in on our community.

Awesome.

And yeah, let us know if there's anything, you know, we can help with directly. I'm really excited for the chat tonight. We're gonna have Emily Zaccardi and Michelle Wax lead the founder health discussion. I'm gonna spotlight both of them here. And yeah, excited. You know, this is a topic we're really excited to dive into. And yeah, you know, thanks again for helping organize. Organize this event and for everybody else that's coming out either through the Zoom or on our Facebook livestream.

Thanks so much.

Yeah, if you wanna— yeah, take it away.

Sure thing. Glad to be connected here, Michelle. It was, um, I think when you and I first spoke, it was over the phone, kind of a serendipitous connection. I wouldn't be surprised if I think back and it was through Steve Vilkus himself. I thought we could just give a quick intro to folks joining us or listening, just share a bit about why we're founders, and so much of what we're going to be talking about is mental health in the founder space. So I'll just quickly share that my role as a founder in a voice tech company was formed to help create stronger connection between people that are looking to gain contextual and valuable motivation from the people they'd really like to hear from it the most. And that has led me on a journey to understand all sorts of things like what is motivation, what makes it impactful, and what does effective communication look like. And I'm so excited to bridge my purpose as a founder with what I understand is Michelle's purpose, but we're going to hear that straight from her. So Michelle, why don't you share a little bit about you and What led you on your journey?

Yeah, sure. So I'm the founder of American Happiness Project, and we started out as a 50-state documentary project that was filmed across every single state in America. So all 50 states, really to capture how everyday people create more joy, create more energy and happiness and fulfillment, regardless of external circumstances. So taking that focus off of external achievements or accomplishments and really taking it back within yourself. And I reached a point where before American Happiness Project, I was an entrepreneur in the food industry. So I had 2 food companies in Boston. One was a cookie catering company, Kitchen Millie. The other was a kitchen incubator space where we helped other food companies start and grow their businesses. And I reached this point where I thought that was my dream. I thought that's what I wanted to do with my life. And I was waking up every single day and just was feeling stressed and Self-doubt and just not the happiest, and I didn't understand why because objectively I had worked to get to the point I thought would make me very happy. And so that led me on filming the documentary project, and then since then have expanded out to doing workshops and building out a whole community to connect other positive people as well across the country. And I feel as though the food companies were kind of my first dream that I reached, and this is now my second one. So That's, that's kind of the high-level overview of the founder journey.

So exciting, Michelle. And you, you've recently had a documentary premiere. Why don't we tell folks a little bit about that so we can give a little bit of context to some of the different conversation points we'll probably explore here tonight in terms of mental health, happiness? What is it? How do you find it? Share a little bit about what you went through creating that documentary and what you were looking for in the process.

Yeah, so I had the idea to film it, um, in July of 2018, and I had zero filmmaking experience, had never, you know, traveled across the country to every state in America or anything like that. But I really was curious on congregating how people from all different walks of life create more internal happiness, because as, as a founder myself, I had looked kind of to achievement or quote unquote success to bring in that happiness to me. And I wasn't feeling the internal way I thought I should be at that point or would have liked to. And, you know, have interviewed now with the documentary alone, interviewed over 500 people. Since then, you know, we continuously interview people. So probably at least over 700, 800 at this point. I gotta go back and do a count, but Um, really focused on finding what people are doing day to day and what's going to bring in more lasting happiness regardless of what's actually happening in your life. And that was a really big theme, is working on building a positive mindset, working on strengthening mental health and mental wellness so that whatever happens outside of yourself that often is outside of your control, you're able to rise from it versus plummet from it.

What an amazing accomplishment, Michelle. And I'm sure any founder who would listen to this would agree that the journey that you plotted for yourself and then committed to, like, to me, it just says grit. You know, it's like, I'm gonna do these things. There's like really high stakes to travel to all 50 states. especially by yourself or with like one or, one or two other people in your own car, you know, using your own resources. I think that so many founders can relate to the idea of grit. And you certainly displayed that through your documentary experience and the whole process you had to take to get there. How do you think that grit relates to happiness? And how do you think founders might be able to get through challenges they might face trying to hone in on their grit? How does that relate to mental health?

Hmm.

Yeah, because I feel like you often hear of grit as kind of you're just pushing through everything to kind of accomplish the goal. And I like to kind of what was said at the beginning, go back to why am I actually doing this? Because I think a lot of times you kind of have a goal in mind. And along the way, it can take, you know, months or years or even decades to reach that. And you kind of sometimes lose track of that. And so through the interviews I did, and many of the people were entrepreneurs I was interviewing, the relation to grit was, yes, persevere, yes, work hard, but also be aligned with, you know, am I experiencing the emotions I want to be feeling each and every day and becoming aware of what those emotions are? Because like I was saying, you know, a lot of people I interviewed, they reached success, quote unquote, right? Maybe they were profitable or they had the team they wanted or they got the recognition they wanted, but it didn't bring in happiness for longer than a couple days to them. And so I think getting clear on what's the emotional state you want to be in and taking small action steps to align with it along the way, in addition to persevering and having that grit, um, is, is really powerful.

Yeah, that's so interesting. I wonder how many founders, when they're creating their goals, which so often their goals are related to things that they have to talk about and things like, you know, a conversation with an investor or a potential partner or an advisor. What are your goals? What do they look like? What do they look like in a few months? What do they look like in a year? How often do you think founders include emotional goals in those goals?

From what I've seen, very rarely, at least to start. I think you have to kind of reach this point where you achieve some type of success and then you're like, oh, this is not how I thought or want to be feeling right now. But I would say it's really important to become self-aware of that. I certainly didn't do it until I kind of reached that point where I was very confused. And, you know, because I had worked really hard, which I know that most founders do, startups you have to, obviously.

Yeah.

Um, but yeah, I love that concept of setting an emotional goal. I love that term.

Well, it's definitely not an original thought that I had. I just kind of started riffing on some, some inspiration that you've given me through this, this early stage of our conversation. Um, I know that I'm always speaking with advisors about goals and like, where are we? And I do, you know, I try to put myself in the hot seat. I try to think about how am I feeling these days? Like, how do I want to be feeling? But it's, it's not something I have like a Google Doc on, you know what I mean? Um, how do, how do you think people could or should track their happiness?

Hmm, that, that's a, that's a great question. I think it's so often with business in general, it's so many things have to be tracked and happiness is kind of— I like to call this out in any workshop I do or program when I'm working with a company because it is a very fluffy topic or can be seen as a fluffy topic. But it's ultimately what we all want, right? It's like, why are we doing anything? Because we believe we'll feel good or we believe we'll feel happier when we reach that goal. And what I like to do is get clear on— I recently made a words to live by list. And essentially, it has, you know, 6 words that are the emotions I want to be experiencing, maybe not daily, but pretty regularly. And I recommend it. It's a pretty simple exercise to do. But just creating that list of those emotions you want to be feeling and seeing what in your life currently is bringing those in and what's also draining it and taking stock of that to first become self-aware. Because that was something I didn't do for a very long time is become self-aware of Why even— why am I good at the things I'm good at? Why am I feeling this way in this situation when perhaps something doesn't go according to plan in business or whatnot? Um, and so that would, that would, would be what I recommend as a good first step.

Yeah, I think that's really interesting advice to think about. Is perhaps part of the goal, like, you know, you get to a point where this is more inherent, kind of like you were sharing, like maybe not everything has to be tracked, but Do we get to a point where we have that internal awareness where you're at least creating some consistency around that check-in?

Yeah.

It's like a daily thing or a weekly thing, or how often should I and other founders be thinking, like, you know, not distracting too much from our goals? Because we know that we can get scattered sometimes. Like, how often do you think we should be checking in about this?

Yeah, I think, and there's a great quote from Steve Jobs, and I'm going to botch the exact wording on it, but he, you know, he says something like, if you're waking up too many days in a row and you're not enjoying or you're not, you know, going after what that emotion is you want to be feeling, then like something needs to change. And I think it's beneficial. I would say that I'm looking at my notebook now. I would say that I don't do it daily because I think that for a lot of founders, it kind of seems like a lot to do, or almost too often, but I would say weekly or even, you know, biweekly to check in. Especially if you're maybe feeling more of those stressed emotions, or, you know, the self-doubt, or all those things that come with being a founder, maybe doing it a little more frequently. And you can either— you can just keep a notebook, or even, you know, just keep it in your phone in the Notes app too. That works well.

Yeah, this has me thinking of this idea of like, how do we optimize? It's something that I think all founders and non-founders, anyone that does get into that goal-setting mindset, you start to think about what kind of tools can help us optimize. And sometimes then you hit like analysis paralysis, picking out the right tool or whatever it may be, but But regardless, I think it's kind of like in our founder bones, not to make a sweeping generalization, but like we're always trying to optimize, make a process better, seek room for improvement. And with that comes, like you mentioned, awareness, like what are the blind spots? And I, I know I would love to hear, and I'm sure others would too, based on your epic quest to interview so, so many people to find out these varied truths about happiness and how to find it. Um, you know, in this thought of— in this topic of blind spots, like, what are the challenges that you were able to pick up on in terms of patterns that many people started to report over and over? Did you have any moments where you thought, oh, I'm hearing that one quite a lot, I wonder if that type of challenge is something that most people face? I'm sure I'll have other questions about that. But let's, let's hear first what you think about repeated challenges.

Yeah. So like I mentioned, you know, interviewed hundreds of people all across the country, and a whole bunch were entrepreneurs, founders, a whole bunch weren't. And really, a common theme across everyone was that they were listening to something outside of themselves when they weren't necessarily aligned with that. In their, you know, in their gut, you could say, to be— for lack of a better term. And that happened. I heard that so many times in so many interviews where, you know, maybe it was their, um, you know, their partner, maybe it was their parents, maybe it was a sibling, someone who they respected and, you know, they wanted to have their support of, but they were listening to something even when they knew it wasn't right. And that's often when They started doing things that weren't aligned with those emotions they want to be feeling. They were stressed out every single day, all these things that were not attributing to it. So it was really shifting that focus from anything outside of yourself to, you know, realigning with what's important to you. And this is something I struggled with for a while because before I launched the food companies, I worked for a tech startup in Boston. And, you know, it was a company that had millions of dollars in funding, which is amazing, right? But when I'm starting out a cookie company and I'm bootstrapping it with a couple hundred dollars, my goals are very different. And I didn't necessarily want to go national and get funding and all these different things, but that was the norm inside my own mind that I found myself really struggling with that and thinking that I wasn't good enough just because I wanted different things. And I think that's again where the self-awareness piece comes into, because I feel like you hear so often out in the world about, you know, oh, you have millions of dollars in funding, wow, you must be successful, and it's kind of tied to success is whatever amount, or, you know, any other kind of external factor. But I think becoming aware of, you know, what's important to you, what do you value, and becoming confident in that, and building the belief is more powerful than I think is often highlighted. A lot of the times.

Yeah, I think that's so interesting and also fitting, as Jason showed that quick video to kick off this event about, you know, finding your why. There seems to be a parallel between, you know, not just hearing those ideas but really leaning into them, because when you describe like this trust-based feedback that comes up, right? So you're not really describing like random unsolicited feedback that some of these folks that you interviewed might have heard and you think, yeah, I'm just going to brush that off. Like, it seems like this type of feedback that might be conflicting with that, the person you're interviewing's why, and it seems like it's pretty widespread, is like, you know, I trust this person, they have credibility with me, and they probably have really good intentions for me. It sounds like, if I'm understanding this correctly, at some point you want to get to, you know, this level of— is it like your gut intuition? Should we be leaning in a little bit more into our gut intuitions, or is it—

Yeah.

Like, what do you think that moment is like? How can you detect this person is giving me good feedback to maybe consider like another angle to improve my path, or Um, you know, I'm going to take that with a grain of salt and I'm going to like stay my course because I'm, I'm sure of it and it's really rooted in my why.

Yeah, that's such a great question. I actually posted a video on that the other day, so it's funny you brought it up because for me personally, when I was, you know, thinking about the food companies were doing well, right, they were profitable, and even my own family, they were like, why would you walk away from this, right? It's profitable, it's doing well. And the question that I like to ask myself, and this took like years to kind of create this process in my own mind, when I maybe am getting advice or feedback from someone that I care about or respect, is that first of all, I like to preface it by saying no one's ever built what you're building at this time, in this place, right, with your mind, with your perspective, with what you've gone through. And so No one is going to really know. Like, yes, you can look to other paths and you can look to what people have done before. But things are changing so rapidly. It's that like you're going to know really ultimately the best. Yes, you can look for advice in certain areas. But a question I like to ask myself is that if I look to someone else giving me advice or feedback, is, is this person living the type of life that I want to live? And if they're not, why am I listening to it, right? Or why am I kind of— you can of course listen to it and take it in, but why am I kind of basing my decisions if it's not aligned with where I want to go or who I want to be? If it is, amazing, yes, definitely listen to them. But if not, something to consider and to kind of be aware of when making, you know, any changes perhaps in the course of direction.

Yeah, I think that all You know, makes a lot of sense. It perhaps comes down to putting it into practice or whatever you need to do, right? Like put it, put it in your app or the Google Doc, whatever's that next step before it becomes kind of more of an inherent process for you. Um, I think these findings are so interesting. And I know I'm wondering, um, is there like a story that stood out most for you when you were on this journey, was there like a moment in an interview when you heard somebody describe like, this is what was in my way and like this is how I overcame it, that's just really stuck with you? Hmm.

I'll cater it to the entrepreneur life because I know that's, you know, the focus here. And this made an impact in my own life. And I actually was just thinking of it yesterday. I interviewed a man named Brad in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. And he was an entrepreneur. He'd been an entrepreneur. He was probably in his, you know, late 20s, I would say. And he had built up a marketing company. And he said that, you know, throughout growing up in college, he was very highly motivated. I think like a lot of entrepreneurs, right? Highly motivated, always doing something, always more to be done. And he would pack his days so that they were as productive as possible, right? Everything was scheduled out. ever, he had to be doing something at all times. And what he shared with me, and I often felt like that too because I feel like as an entrepreneur, right? You could always be doing something. You could always be doing more. You could always be whatever, right?

Yeah.

There's so much opportunity there. But he said to me, he was like, you know what, Michelle? I changed my perspective on productivity and it's made my life so much better. And he said, you know, I realized that taking a nap can be productive. Watching 3 hours of Netflix can be productive if it gets you to that place that you're going to be thinking more clearly, right, when you get back to work or get back to whatever you were doing. And shifting kind of the mindset, the reframe around productivity to things that, you know, traditionally wouldn't be considered productive or maybe a waste of time, but they ultimately are because they allow you to be more focused and more— maybe even giving you time to have a new idea or to, you know, kind of ponder something. So that's something when I found myself yesterday just feeling super unmotivated. And I think like probably a lot of entrepreneurs, people think you're always pretty motivated and, you know, have a lot of willpower, which we do. But I was feeling super unmotivated. I think in the past, I would try to force myself to do things, right? And they weren't, wouldn't be done well, or I would botch something or mess it up, right? And so yesterday, I just decided to take some time. And I was feeling unmotivated. I just took some time and, you know, an hour or two later, I was feeling back to how I normally am and really refreshed. And so instead of beating myself up about it, you know, I saw that time as productive, even though I didn't really do anything. And so that was an interesting story and shift in my mind that really has become— or really has impacted me.

Yeah. I think it's so great to hear not only the story, but your insights to build on it in the lens of mental health. Um, which is a passion point of my focus as well. Like, always thinking about, um, you know, like, advice is contextual, motivation is contextual. Like, there's always this idea of like, well, it depends. I don't know if you completely agree with that, but I think there's like a similar sentiment there where, yeah, like, for you yesterday, based on all the outside variables and inside variables of your life that led to like, I'm gonna watch Netflix for a few hours, like, That was totally me last Friday. I'll tell you right now, like, my, my last meeting of the day was with somebody that I'm friendly with, and I just said, honestly, I don't think I'm going to be able to bring value to this conversation. Like, would it be okay with you if we reschedule? And like, I hate rescheduling things, and I just knew, like, you know what, like, this was the right thing to do, and I just need to not really think about it because, like, they're fine with it. So. I should be too. Like, maybe perseverance in this moment is not about checking all the boxes. Um, sounds like that's how you felt yesterday. I can totally relate.

And I, I think it's like, I used to beat myself up a lot about that because I, you know what I mean? It's like, especially if there's like a financial pressure, right? Or especially if you're just starting out, maybe the exposure is not there. That's when it's even more like, oh my God, right? It's a very real internal pressure that I felt, and the entrepreneurs I've spoken with feel that as well. That's hard to explain to someone who's not an entrepreneur. It's kind of this— yeah, but, um, but I'm working and it's, it's constantly a work in progress because I don't always do this perfectly, of course. But, you know, if I do feel that way, just not beating myself up and be like, you know what, this is productive right now. So yeah, I'm glad to hear that you had a similar moment.

I sure have. I'm happy to share it too, which Kind of reminds me of this idea of like humility and vulnerability. And I think those are things that all founders are up against, whether they want to be or not, right? Like, if you're really in it, like, you get to those points where you realize like, I can't move forward without being vulnerable, without having some humility, without making sacrifices. And I think those types of words can kind of like bring up friction with the idea of mental health. So it's kind of interesting to talk about mental health in a community of founders where it's tough, I think, to always make the right mental health decision. Because like we've talked about things like grittiness so far and also like being true to yourself. How do you think founders should or could navigate this idea of like, You need to be vulnerable, you need to make sacrifices, you need to have humility, but you also have to have a positive attitude because like you need to keep going forward. It's something that's been on my mind and I've heard from a lot of founders that I know that keeping a balance between like a positive attitude and what mental health truly is in that moment can be tough.

Hmm.

I'm wondering what you think about that.

Yeah, I definitely agree with you because I consider myself a fairly positive person, but there are days when, you know, it just sucks, you know, to be frank. And it's like, I think it's hard too as an entrepreneur because a lot of the times people— like, you have an entrepreneur community, which is awesome, but a lot of the times people are not entrepreneurs and they don't, you know, they might— they're supportive, but it's hard to kind of connect sometimes on like the true kind of mental health state you're in. And yeah, I would say I feel like taking care of your mental health is even more important than, you know, making that extra sales call or, you know, creating the content. Because if you're not taking care of your mental health, you're not operating at your best. And your mind is not just physically, it's not going to be working as great as it could. And so that's something that I have to, you know, constantly remind myself. And I have Post-its, you know, up in my apartment and things like that because it's hard to forget.

Yeah.

get very absorbed in just kind of like working and having that grit. But yeah, I agree with you 100%.

Do you think it's hard to like, and I know I think this is hard, I'm just also wondering what you think. Do you think it's hard to kind of figure out where's that line where I need to embrace friction so that I can learn these like hard lessons of trying to mature my business trying to mature personally as a founder. On my end, I'm a first-time founder. I know there's gonna be other first-time founders that are listening. I think whether you're founding something for your first time or somebody like yourself who is now doing it for second, third, or fourth time, we enter these moments, right, where it's like, okay, this is kind of uncomfortable. Maybe I should do something to better harness a positive attitude. But like, where are we missing out on the opportunity to grow as well in that like area of being uncomfortable? And I guess I'll share an example. Like when I started Holler Hype, I was like pretty nervous to like go to events and like talk to new people. And I had an advisor who told me, I'll never forget this, he was like, you don't have kids. And basically that is the baseline for giving yourself you have no excuses for not like going to at least 4 startup events every night. Like, if you're serious about this, like, you got to get out there. And I'm like, I don't even have a prototype yet, right? Like, I was in this world of like, what am I going to talk about? And he was like, well, this is good that we're identifying that this is uncomfortable for you. So do it anyways, but know that it makes you uncomfortable. And I'm glad that I did, even though those, those first few nights I was, I didn't really know how to, how to even like do introductory conversations properly. Like I'm a fairly social person, but this was different.

Mm-hmm.

I don't know if you felt like that when you started any of your businesses or like started hitting like the startup event scene. But that's one example that I think I kind of benefited from getting a little bit uncomfortable, but then I had to draw the line. Like, it takes a different sort of energy for me to go out and do some of those things. So where do I keep that in check? I don't know if you have any, even if, you know, we don't continue down that rabbit hole, are there any examples that you felt like as a founder, I don't want to miss out on these lessons, but I also need to figure out where my boundaries are, where it is I am compromising? Yeah.

And I like what you were saying that you acknowledge that it takes a certain type of energy because I feel the same way. I'm actually naturally a pretty introverted person. I think most people just assume, assume I'm very extroverted. I was like super shy as a child. It was something I had to build to be able to go out and like, it is very uncomfortable. I think most people at events feel uncomfortable. Um, but like you were saying, something that I have to remind myself, whether it be going to an event or anything that's uncomfortable, is if you do it a couple times, it becomes normal and it becomes who You are, right? And so that's something I have to remind myself whenever I'm kind of creating something new or putting something new out there. Like obviously going from the food industry to now this kind of mental wellness happiness space—it's completely different. And so I think the normal entrepreneur founder self doubt comes up, right? All the time. And I went to a conference a couple years ago, and this was. Such a powerful moment for me where it was about 6,000 people in the stadium. And the person who was running the conference, she, she at the front, you know, she said, I'm going to read out a bunch of statements. And at the end of the sentence, if the statement applies to you, stand up, right? So it was intended to show that we're not alone, really, in this endeavor. And there were people that had just started their businesses, right? They were kind of in the idea stage, just starting out. There are people who had been in business 20 years. So there's a wide range of people. And the statement that really impacted me that she read out was, I experience self-doubt on a daily basis. And I was expecting, you know, maybe like 50% of the room to stand up. Literally 95% of the room stood up. And the other 5% was probably thinking it. They just didn't want to stand up. But it was wild because I was thinking to myself, oh my God, I feel less alone in this kind of uncomfortable emotion that I think probably most of us feel, um, quite often when starting out something new or just growing or just in life in general. Um, but the more and more you do new things, it just becomes normal. And I have to remind myself of that for like the past things that I've done that were uncomfortable and then they became normal. So yeah, that's what I try to do as well. But I know what you mean by going to the events and it can feel strange.

Well, your story as well in terms of like not feeling alone and just identifying, feeling some validation on your grand topic of happiness. Like, do you think that there's a link between validation and happiness in terms of like your feelings are validated or you feel less alone about the state in which you're in?

Hmm. Yeah. So that's such a great question because that's something that I looked into originally when I was in that state where quote unquote my businesses were successful. But I was waking up and I was feeling stressed and worried and had the self-doubt and just kind of inner antsiness, you could say. And I looked, started looking into the science of happiness and of fulfillment and found out that our brains are actually wired to go to that place because it helped keep us safe in our primal days, to go to that place of what could go wrong, right? The more looking out for all the negativity. That's why there's so much complaining and so much negativity out in the world is because your mind's naturally wired to go that route. And so that was something that was reassuring or validating because I thought to myself, wow, this is just the way my brain is naturally wired. It's not me as a human being. And that's something that I now share with people is that— because, you know, I think so often if you feel that stress or self-doubt or uncertainty, you think something's wrong or you think it's not normal, when in reality it's literally the most normal thing. Everyone is wired in that way. Um, yeah, that was a validating moment. Yeah.

Yeah, I, I can totally see that because it's like, I, I would argue that most people would advocate for people, for others to feel empowered to come over their imposter syndrome, but that's not the same thing as like wanting to talk about your own. I wonder if, you know, there's still like this element of shame around that, like you know, if I let this information out, like, you know, let's say you're at an event or something like that, and you don't know who you're talking to. Do you think there's this expectation for founders that can impact our mental health where we always have to seem on, positive, polished, like nothing can bring me down? Where like what we've been talking about so far is kind of giving ourselves permission to say like, this is tough, I need to take a break, or I might need a— pivot my direction because it's not completely in line with my purpose or I'm in a stage where I'm kind of like reevaluating that right now. Do you think there's a pressure that entrepreneurs feel in that sense of, you know, when I think about other people's occupations outside of entrepreneurship, they're not always pitching their worth every day. They're kind of like you're signing up to do something and then you do a good job and then you know you're on track. And you either stick in the position that you want, or you do something to move on to another one. Or even if you want to switch jobs, it's, you know, you're kind of pitching your worth to get that job. And then it becomes a little bit more internal. How do you think those pressures that founders face can impact, like a threat to our happiness?

Yeah. Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Because you have, you have to have a degree of confidence, right, and belief, or else, you know, no one is gonna really have confidence in your product or your brand. And so that is a very real, very real thing. And it is very important to build the business. And I think it's important in that case to have some form of support that you can go to and be that more vulnerable, you know, way. And perhaps share a bit of it to, maybe if you're going to an event, perhaps share a bit of it. But I think there is a fine line of, you know, you don't want to share too much because you are ultimately trying to build the brand or the Totally. And I remember to myself last year, you know, before the pandemic, I was going to an event that I was speaking at. And, you know, of course, you send over the bio and you got to hype yourself up and it's all that, right? And I, that afternoon, I was feeling like pretty, like just not the best, right? But you have to turn it on at some points. I think that's part of being an entrepreneur is being able to do that. It's definitely a strength. But having the ability to go to someone, and whether it be this community or, you know, someone else you have in your life that you can share that with, is equally as important. Because if you just push it down and push it down and kind of put out this fake exterior, um, it definitely will take a toll for sure.

Yeah, I think, you know, your insights about a support network, knowing when to leverage it and for what means is really important because sometimes confidence can come in the form of like, you know, I got this 24/7. But then we're at a risk of— or I should ask you, how important do you think a support network is to protecting both your happiness and your mental health, considering that we have established that a lot of our happiness has to come from within and we build up those Assurances that are more than just instincts and they become a part of our why. So knowing that, how important is it to have like a trust-based network that you can lean on?

Yeah. It's definitely extremely important. I think, of course, happiness is internal and no one can ultimately make you long-term happy besides yourself. Because you always come back to it. But it's very important to have those people in your life that are not even on the same level of mindset, right? They might be doing different things but have the same values or the same wants and are like looking to improve. And that's something that I struggled with finding quite a bit because all across the country when I was doing these interviews, I kept hearing that people want to be around more positive people. And I agreed, right? Because I think it's, it's difficult to often find that community. But they want to be around them, but they didn't know where to find it. And I personally, you know, was looking on Meetup and, you know, Facebook and trying to find groups like that. And so ultimately decided to just start that through American Happiness because it was something that I was craving as well. And someone who actually joined that community through American Happiness said that— they put it in a really eloquent way, and I'll try to convey it here today— but they were saying that so often our kind of our friend group or our peers are around, they get formed around the things that we're doing, right? We're in school or we're at work, or maybe we're building the company, right? You kind of meet other people because of what you're doing. But it's good to find a community, a really valuable that is around who you want to be or who you're becoming, right? It's more the being versus just doing in that moment. And that's where those values and mindset and, you know, those words to live by, whatever it is for you, really come into play. And finding people like that that can help you rise up to that level you want to be at, um, has been powerful. And that— I feel like that's something I'm still trying to do, which is so— I'm so glad we're doing this today and we connected. Um, but yeah.

Yeah, I love to hear that advice among all the other great things that we've touched on. Um, I'm going to take a moment to read a question in the chat. And then if we have time, we'll get to some other curiosities I have brewing in my mind. But we have one here from Jason. Um, curious, Michelle, what your tips might be in terms of managing timing and balance of all exciting things going on. For example, Jason tries to be a stitcher on hours that he takes calls and Zooms and then tries to join events and catch up on other tasks during different hours. What seems to work with you? Hmm.

So I, I try to delegate based on what's bringing me energy and try to kind of integrate that throughout the course of the day for things that might not be as fun or exciting. Um, so I'll— I do like batching calls because I feel like, you know, like you were saying, Emily, with going to events, it requires a different type of energy than maybe some more creative work. So I do like batching certain things, but I find that I like to incorporate around like 3 PM, 4 PM. I'm generally kind of low energy because I work best in the morning. And so I'll often do something that doesn't seem like work, or I'll read something or watch a video on a topic I'm interested in to kind of bring that back, bring that energy back. So it's very important for me to feel excited in what I'm doing. So that's kind of what I do. I would— I'm not super regimented in like a strict schedule that I keep every single day or every single week. But being aware of my energy levels has worked well.

I think buckets help too. I can, I can relate with you that I might not be the most regimented in terms of some of my strengths because I get quite excited about creative work. So I try, I try to do something like in the reverse. I, I bucket my time for creative work because I know like that's when it needs to get done, and everything else can have a little bit more flexibility because I know that my rabbit holes are in some of like the creative projects. Um, so I, I relate to you in that sense.

Um, yeah, something else I also do that just came to mind, which you might already do, Jason, but If, if an event is coming up or something more time sensitive, I do those things first in my day or when I'm going to have the most energy. So if you have more energy in the afternoon, but for me, right when I wake up is like the best time to do that. So that's another thing that I try to prioritize around is the more kind of if I need more energy around it or it's more time sensitive too.

Hmm. Yeah, you're kind of having me think about how I've arrange some of my tasks. I'm kind of just realizing this right now. So I put my creative projects in the evening, I guess, because it feels less like work to me. And perhaps this is the link to happiness, right? Like, Yeah. I feel really happy working on those types of projects. And then I have no problem working most evenings, which of course is a prerequisite of being an entrepreneur. It's, it's a good energy source for me. I didn't realize that. So we're kind of like talking it through right here. That must be the link. Yeah.

I feel the same way about creative or branding. I just, I, that's also something I do if I'm feeling kind of just like, just, right, just like discouraged or whatever. I'll try to be aware of that first of all, and then do something that I'm going to find really fun. For me, it's like design, branding. I love that component of business. So yeah, yeah.

That has me thinking about this idea of awareness that we kind of kicked the conversation off and how important that is really sounding in terms of not only having a grasp on your mental health, but also being in tune with your happiness. Like, there are these variables that we're not going to be able to control as founders, like very busy, stretched thin, the vulnerability, the humility, like all those things, like the There's no escaping that. Like, I think those elements are like, you know, get, get comfy with those, or like at least try to. But if we have these awarenesses like we're kind of uncovering right here of maybe, you know, if you're going to have a jam-packed day, like what feels like the productive break where you're still kind of getting something done, but like you're bringing good energy back into your flow. Um, I'm kind of like paraphrasing or riffing on things that you've already said, but does that sound accurate to your schedule?

Yeah, and something— you're kind of jogging things in my mind too, because I feel like something I do that has been really helpful in kind of aligning with that why is every couple months or so, I'll kind of recalibrate with the vision that I have. And it's like one page in a notebook. It's not anything too crazy. But going back and going back through old notebooks or old notes I've taken and going back through those is really inspiring to myself, you know, often when I feel I need that motivation. And I think a lot of the times, you know, as an entrepreneur, you have to be self-motivated and you have to be kind of regimented in that. And so when I am feeling Like I'm not being as productive or just don't want to do what I need to do, right? I'll kind of take a couple minutes or maybe an hour and go back through that. And I would say 99% of the time after doing that, I kind of have this reinvigorated spirit for the company or whatever I'm doing.

Hmm. I love that. Um, makes me want to like revisit these abandoned like Evernote scraps I have somewhere, you know what I mean? Like things that I don't archive because I'm like, I'm gonna need to read these someday. And Who knows when that will be, but just not quite enough to delete it.

Yeah, it's also cool. This is something I wish I did more earlier, but it's also cool if you do keep notes or you keep a notebook on ideas or like projects you're working on to go back like a couple months or even a year. And I found that certain things I've written down, they've come to fruition. And that's also too like motivating. Not like in a direct sense, but it's like, I wrote down a sentence that like, just today, you know, I wrote down a sentence in my notebook of an idea that, you know, a day or two ago I typed out on my website, but it took like a year to actually put it out there. And I kind of subconsciously—

Yeah.

So I don't know, there's just, I don't know if I'm being, you know, as eloquent as I could around that point, but that's like another cool thing that helps with kind of bringing back that motivation.

Yeah, I think it starts with that willingness of like committing your thoughts to a page, whether you take notes by hand or it's in your Evernote or Google Doc, whatever. It could be anywhere. It's like, um, perhaps goes back to that confidence just to get it out somewhere, even if it's only for your eyes to read at first. You're starting to hone in on, you know, like what, what makes me happy to think about, I guess, because that, that translates to like This is getting my time to jot a note down. And, you know, it's also on that topic, like you said yourself, motivation, which with some of the remaining time that we have here, I would love to hear about the community that you've developed through American Happiness. Because, of course, there's this very exciting documentary filled with— and everyone should check it out. I thought it was really cool. Everyone should give that a watch. There's some really inspiring raw content in there from real people who are describing I mean, their challenges and what helped them unlock them to really get in tune with their happiness. But there's this other step that Michelle has thought about, which is community. And a lot of what we've talked about is like, you know, the internal, what do you do for yourself? How do you like find your why? I know that Jason and Steve here have been doing such an amazing job cultivating community with Prepare for VC. Community is also something that we think a whole lot about at HollerHype, even from like our first iteration where we're a, We're a group-based app. You come in with a group. It's a trust-based motivation dynamic. Please share with us what it's like to join the community at American Happiness. Like, what is that experience for folks?

Yeah, so it's called Connection. And how that name came to be is I sent out a survey to our community back in the fall before this was developed and had asked, you know, what are you craving more of in your life? And there were words like positivity, accountability, joy, energy, excitement, connection. Literally pretty much everyone, I think 98.7%, selected connection. So I was like, all right, connection. And I think especially in this past year, as I personally was lacking that, I think many are. Um, so what happens when you join is what we have is we have biweekly virtual calls for now, in the future in person. And we ask for a commitment of 6 months so that you actually get to know the people inside the group, right? And you can actually form relationships and deeper friendships. than just perhaps maybe going to a one-off workshop or event or something like that. And in between, we have a Voxer thread where people stay connected. And basically, really, the whole goal is to just deepen friendships that are going to have a positive— with positive people. So it's an uplifting community for you. Because like I was saying before, right, this was something I was seeking for myself. I heard all across the country people are seeking it. And so we have a great group of people in it. And it's, you know, all different types of people. They have jobs or they're entrepreneurs or a whole variety. So really the basis is if you want to be around more uplifting community, we'd love to have you join.

That's so interesting, Michelle, because like I've experienced the power of community without knowing that that's what I was looking for. So I might join different groups because I fit the niche of the theme of whatever is crafting that group. And then what a wonderful result comes out the other way in the form of connectivity where I form these relationships. Like maybe the cohort of whatever the program is ends, I'm like, oh, I want to stay in touch with these people. Like I really formed a deep relationship. But I haven't actually, I've never been a part of a group where the, like, the founding principle and the glue between the members is we all want to be around positive energy and we want to uplift each other. You know what I mean? Like, usually it's, um, like your, your career field or, um, like new moms come to mind. Like, if you're entering a new stage of life and you want to rally around that topic, which is great, but—

Yeah.

It sounds like, if I'm, if I'm understanding it correctly, you could be going through anything in your life and the common denominator is almost like these house rules of, you know, I'm coming in with a positive spirit and I want to help somebody else maintain their positive spirit. Is that kind of how it goes?

Yeah, exactly. And like you were saying, I feel like it's been really interesting and exciting because there is that common denominality for mindset, really, which is really the most powerful thing that I believe there is. Because I feel like, as a founder especially, right, you can always figure out the strategies and tactics, but your mind is going to stop you before anything else will. And so, yeah, it's been, it's been interesting too, because we obviously asked, you know, what brought you here? Why are you interested in joining? And the variety of responses is exciting to me.

You know what I mean?

To like continue growing it because some people, they're in, you know, not the best marriage or their family is not really supportive of them. And it's kind of this negative energy suck that they're kind of not stuck in. But obviously, it can be difficult to completely eliminate your family. And I'm not saying that's even good to do, right? Of course. But they want to find those people. And then other people coming in, you know, they're in a pretty good state. They've kind of worked to develop that positive mindset. But they want to have other people at their level that are going to push them to even grow and even more so give back and start kind of serving that to other people. And so there's been a wide mix. So it's kind of nice because it's been able to attract different mindsets, but all with that goal of, you know, becoming someone, if not already, who's going to be that positive energy and can really share that as well.

So great to hear. I'm, I, I'm really looking forward to hearing how the rest of your cohort goes and wishing it all the best with its growth because, you know, a lot, a lot of the work that I've done in Holler Hype really jives with some of your research in that people are seeking connectivity and sometimes nothing feels better than getting the support from somebody who like understands what you're going through, or perhaps more importantly understands what you need and how to provide assurances for, you know, whatever it is you're going through, whatever stage of your path you're on. So I think it's wonderful and it's very exciting, and congratulations on, you know, getting that going, providing that space for people, and ultimately the connectivity that comes out of it.

It's great. Thank you. I appreciate that. And I feel like, yeah, because it's just so energizing to be around people like that. Because I remember our initial call, we chatted, you know, a couple weeks ago or a couple months ago now. And after that, I just felt so just positive and energized. And it was just so great to have like even that brief 30 minutes. And so I think those connections and that relatability can be like so Powerful. So yeah.

Yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. Actually, I can remember I was like, I was leaving a Starbucks and, you know, I'd read a little bit about American happiness and you're right, a positive spirit and uncovering, you know, common interests and just a good attitude like really goes a long way. If you're able to cultivate that in your community through American Happiness, that, that's great. It even reminds me of like a lot of things that are happening on Clubhouse these days where, um, I just actually met a founder who Jason met like last week or sometime somewhat recently. And I was so glad that I did, you know, it was like kind of serendipitous. And yeah, it was that encouragement, like one person wanting to encourage another person, just the willingness or the openness. to want to keep that going. And, you know, hopefully we continue to see some of those dominoes fall as we all climb out of this pandemic and climb into spaces like the connection at American Happiness or any of these other places that we're able to align ourselves with just supportive people.

Yeah, and I think it's important too. It's like, because I think so often people think of positivity or being positive as like kind of this delusional, like, oh, you're always happy, you're always positive. And I think it's important to say that like that is not the case. I think it's more of like, I don't love the word positive because I feel like it's kind of like associated with that. But yeah, it's kind of, you know, meeting people where they're at. And, you know, just with that goal of, you know, even if things aren't ideal at the current moment, the belief that they can get better and they will get better and the ability to create more of that energy for themselves, but also for the people in their life. I don't know. I just had to say that because I feel like I shouldn't take it personally, but people assume I'm just naturally always positive and happy. And I do not like when people associate myself with that because it's not real. It's not human. And especially in the entrepreneur world, it's definitely not real. It's not, you know, I don't think it would—

Yeah.

If we could. So.

Yeah, I love the way you stated that, Michelle. Like, it's, it's the belief that things will get better. Like, that, that common belief is something to hold on to. If you can find folks that are able to either find that for themselves or help you remember that, that is a really healthy mindset to have. Is, I think, the differentiator because I am— I can also get cranky about sugarcoating things as well. Because we miss out on the opportunities to grow and like get in those uncomfortable spaces and experience friction in a healthy way. So that we're aware of like, you know, this is not what makes me happy, or this is definitely not what's helping me achieve my goals, or this is not what feels healthy. Um, so I'm, I'm with you in that sense. Steve can attest. I— we've, we've definitely had a couple of rants back and forth about the dangers of like sugarcoating too much. So I appreciate that you brought that up, uh, because it is important. And I think in terms of mental health, keeping it real is, um, a part of the equation.

Definitely, definitely.

Jason, I know we're like at 6:31.

I Yeah, that's just a—

But I want to give you an opportunity to chime in with any comments.

No, I, um, this is amazing, amazing discussion. Yeah, I appreciate, you know, all of your insights here. And, um, yeah, just been enjoying, uh, enjoying being a part of this. So yeah, I saw, um, your— thanks, Michelle, for posting the link in the chat here. Um, you know, we'll share that with the the recording as well. Emily, if there's anything you want to share on HollerHype, you know, we can spread the word there as well. And yeah, you know, excited to continue these conversations. We have an event or some— next Monday we're doing just an info session on our upcoming accelerator cohort. And on Thursday, let me just double-check that. Yeah, Thursday we have a discussion on industrial, the next industrial revolution and what the new technology trends mean for startups. So yeah, I'll be sharing our community link here as well. And yeah, again, we'll post all of these within the, in the YouTube recording and in our community chat. So thanks again. Yeah, you guys were great. Really enjoyed this discussion here.

Thanks for having me. This has been so wonderful. Appreciate it.

Yeah, thanks so much, Jason.

Thank you. And yeah, thanks for everyone for coming out. Um, and yeah, let us know if there's anything else, you know, we can help with. Always here to support.

All right, awesome. Everyone have a great evening. It was a pleasure to hold this space and have this conversation, Michelle. So look forward to, um, hearing about all things coming your way.

Absolutely. Yes, thank you so much. Have a great night.

Bye everyone.