3 Ways to Keep Your Best Employees Long-Term
In this episode of the Entrepreneurship Simplified series, host Mike Michalowicz interviews Daniel Mulvey to explore how businesses can not only hire great talent but also retain them over the long term. The conversation centers on Mulvey’s 5‑Star Fit Method, a structured hiring framework that includes clear role responsibilities, success metrics, and a paid “shadow day” where candidates experience the job and culture firsthand. They discuss the importance of a rapid yet thorough onboarding process—six weeks of training followed by a ramp‑up period with defined performance targets—so new hires hit the ground running. Ongoing one‑on‑one meetings (weekly, bi‑weekly, or monthly) are presented as essential for early issue detection, continuous feedback, and cultural alignment, illustrated by a story of a remote employee whose productivity dropped due to a missing keyboard. Mulvey emphasizes aligning compensation with market rates (90‑110% of market) and communicating total compensation through benefits, 401(k) matching, PTO, bonus holidays, and small perks, which reinforce employee loyalty. Culture fit is highlighted: leaders should model the environment they want (e.g., foosball tables only if the leader values play). They also cover creative recruiting tactics, such as hosting industry workshops (e.g., a preschool director workshop) to attract passive talent and seed interest in new roles. Finally, Mulvey describes the All In Company’s offerings—a community app, free courses, and the “Hair Is on Fire” intensive workshop that helps organizations implement the 5‑Star employee scorecard. Throughout, the dialogue blends practical advice, anecdotes, and actionable frameworks aimed at reducing turnover and building high‑performing teams.
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Entrepreneurship is hard, but the process can be simplified. You can achieve success faster, sooner, and easier. I'm Mike Michalowicz, and I'm on a mission to eradicate entrepreneurial poverty. My goal for this episode and every episode is to serve you on your journey. Let's start right now on Entrepreneurship Simplified. You are listening to part 2 of the 2-part series for Entrepreneurship Simplified.
I'm talking with Daniel Mulvey, and we're talking about not just hiring, But retaining those folks and raising the bar throughout your organization. Danielle, thanks for joining me again.
So much fun. Always glad to be chatting with you.
Yeah. And we're doing this back to back, right? So this is just one fluid thing, which is perfect. Our listeners may hear this a, a week or so apart, but what's important is I wanna continue that conversation we were just having. We're talking about how to hire folks and intentionally inserting a very positive friction to vet out Extraordinary folks that are very committed to the organization, but also see the opportunity at the organization. And how I loved it is you ended with that story of John Briggs and a 92% retention after a full year for many of these employees.
93.
Oh, no, sorry. Sorry. But who's counting? 93% retention. Now we got these people on board. I presume Insight Tax, that's where John Briggs is, that organization must be doing things To keep people on board for the long haul. And that's what I wanted to explore here. Once you have that person there, is there a sequence of events you go through to make sure that you're keeping 'em, they're happy, but they're also performing their best?
Yeah. So by, it, it, it starts in the, it starts in the recruitment and hiring process. So we, we talked about having the 5-Star Fit Method, and it is like taking people through a gauntlet, but you wanna take them quickly through that and you want them to be producing results. And that is going to start to give them a sense as to the expectation that when they start, they hit the ground running. And we actually work with our members that, you know, the success lies in them hitting the ground running and starting to produce results right when they're hired. And so many companies really, they, they dread the hiring process, but they know they need to do it. They find someone, they get 300 resumes, they get through 20 and say, well, let's interview these 5 and we just don't have time for the rest. And they interview 5 and they're like, well, this one's, I guess, the most okay-ish for the role, so why don't we hire them? They seem to have the experience on their resume, so they should be able to, to plug and play. And they bring that person in and they never tested them. They never, you know, had them do any sort of demonstration of ability, et cetera. They bring that person in and they, they think that that person's just gonna figure out the job and, and figure out what they need to do. And so that's why, you know, when you, when you're very clear about here are the 3 to 5 key responsibilities, here's what the success metrics are for those key to 5 responsibilities, then when that person starts the job, they know exactly what they need to be doing.
Hmm.
On day 1. Now, of course, you need to show them how to do it. You need to, you know, provide them some training, et cetera. And, and, and then you need to like have a, have a quick ramp-up period for them. So you need to set the expectation that. Okay, you know, I mean, I talked about our claims examiners on the, on the last episode.
Yeah.
They go through 6 weeks of training, and then when they come out of training, they go into a ramp-up period. So they're not hitting 42 claims out of the gate, but they start at 24, and then it moves up to 27. And so it moves up week over week, and we've set those expectations. We talk about how this is going to work. I've never not had someone complete training And I've never not had someone complete the ramp up and meet the success metrics at the following the plan. So you have to have a plan for how you're going to support the individual getting ramped up to meet those success metrics.
You talked about that on-the-job training, and that's what we call it. Like, you know, you're gonna learn on the fly, on the job, and it's actually a very soft term for A lack of preparation. Tell me, um, your claims individuals versus maybe a salesperson that the metrics are they have to be very outgoing and personable. Do you structure their day ones differently? And I'm just— these are assumptions. If someone's highly personable, I want them meeting the team and celebrating and high-fiving. The claims person may be totally turned off by that, and they say, please put me in an area where I don't have to focus on people. Do you structure their work environment to also complement their— Humanistic style?
Yeah, def— definitely. Um, you know, and, and, and you'll find this too, it's important to have a shadow day.
Okay, what's that? Tell me.
So a shadow day is part of the 5 Star Fit Method, and that is when they come in and they, you know, spend a paid day, 4 hours, 6 hours, a whole day. Some people spend a week seeing what, what the job is like firsthand. And I have had people that have failed that, that job shadow day because they didn't like what the job was, or they didn't like the fact that I had a small team and everyone ate lunch together and they didn't wanna do that. And then that was like, okay, well then you're not a fit for us. So by having that shadow day, you are able to see, okay, what, what do they like? What do they don't like? What's non-negotiable? What is negotiable and such? And then you can set them up for success going forward, but you don't want to You shouldn't have to flex too much for talent.
Interesting. What do you mean by that?
You shouldn't change things too much that could alter the culture of the organization. So for example, the individual who said, oh, I prefer to eat alone, I really don't wanna eat with lunch with everyone. Well, that's gonna tell me that you don't really wanna be part of this team. So I'm not gonna flex for you and say, oh, it's okay, you don't have to eat lunch with the team because now that would be ruining the culture of our organization. So you wanna get people to hit the ground running. But you need to set the expectations of what they need to be doing.
So I thought what was so interesting was this kind of skill day or a work experience for that one day. What I'm hearing is the employee may vet themselves out too and say, this is not an environment for me. And you're not willing to compromise your environment to accommodate everyone, cuz then it becomes a fractured environment. Do your colleagues who are participating in that too, do they give you feedback? Is that part of the assessment?
Oh, of course. Of course. Because they're not gonna be working with me. They're gonna be working with these individuals on our team and such. So it is very important and they're wanting to, you know, make sure that the person can do the job because whatever this person's gonna be doing is gonna be taking the load off of whoever's working with them that day and such as well. So they really understand the value of not settling for someone who would be less than a 5-star fit for the role.
I was talking with Kelsey here, the president of our company, and, uh, We're talking about kind of this traditional review process. I, I bring an employee on board and I wait for 1 year and I give 'em the annual review and, and we do a different system. Um, what do you recommend when it comes to keeping a person on course, course correcting, or, or, or acknowledging the success they're having? Is there a, a routine meeting structure or something like that?
Yeah. So, um, we, we have one-on-ones, um, Depending upon the organization, either monthly or weekly or biweekly, excuse me, biweekly or monthly depending upon the organization. And that is like just a touch base to make sure that, you know, everything is going well. What can we do better? And, you know, just that opportunity. And it takes a little time for them to warm up to things and such, but we've gotten great ideas outta that one-on-one. They feel safe, they can share, they can, and, and they know that we're here to support them. Mm-hmm. And, you know, sometimes it, it, it points out things that You know, someone's dealing with. So, for example, when COVID hit, everyone went home and started working remote, and then we decided to make everything permanently remote. And you know, no one thought we were going to be like that forever. So people were working said, "Oh, I've got a computer at home. Oh, I'm fine." Da da da. And we had one individual in particular whose performance went down dramatically. And you know, in the one-on-one, what we realized is that they were doing things on their laptop and remote via. VPN into the system, but they were doing things on their laptop, and in the office they had a 10-key keyboard. So it was miskeying things on a laptop versus having— so it was like, okay, well, let's get you a 10-key keyboard. Like, that's how we fixed it. The guy didn't hate his job. The guy did it. He was just— he was— he thought he was being a good company guy by saying, I don't need a— you don't send me a computer. I have one, I can use it, it's just fine. But he was shooting himself in the foot, not realizing it. So, you know, those kind of things, when you, when you have, when you have rapport, when you have relationship, like it's a mutual, like we want it, we, we're in this together. Like we wanna work together and, and get better. And if there's something that's tripping you up or whatever, like 2 heads are smarter than one. Let's, let's figure this out.
It's such a good example because I think if that one-on-one wasn't happening, that same fella at the year-end review would say, hey, your productivity's dropped by 40%, we can't keep you. And he's like, well, hold on. Like, it was quite off guard. How quickly was that caught? Because it was a one-on-one biweekly or monthly call.
When you have success metrics, you have to keep a measure on those success metrics. Yeah. And the employee should be able to know what, if they're hitting the success metrics, and you should be tracking. Are they hitting the success metrics? So it happened. Um, we get— we do, um, you know, QA audits, and he gets scored on that. And then it was in the month following, in the one-on-one in the month following that, that bad month.
So within one month or a month and a half or so, this issue's caught, which in the traditional environment that I used to have, that would be 6 months before he even gets red-flagged, and then it'd be another 6 months until he's notified and And possibly even terminated. I mean,
and you've been paying an employee what to do a fucking job?
Yeah. And they, and they don't want to, and all they need's a tool for $50 or whatever the keyboard costs. It's, it's, it's pretty remarkable. Um, tell me about, um, the kind of the foosball table and, uh, the, the little basketball hoop at the office and, and pizza parties. Um, that, that was really in vogue. I, I don't know if it's the right thing or, or maybe it is.
Your culture needs to align with The leader of the organization. So if you're a really playful guy and you want other playful people like you, then have the foosball table, have the pool table table. But if you are, let's just knock this out, let's work, like me kind of gal, and don't have time to take a break because you just love what you're doing, then don't put in the pool table. Because if you don't partake in it, then you're gonna get people who want it. Like, it's, it's not a fit. Do you see how it's not a fit? It's a misalignment.
Yeah, exactly.
organization needs to like match your expectations.
Yeah.
And, and you don't need that fun stuff if you don't want to attract fun stuff kind of people. Does that make sense?
It makes total sense. And I wanna give you a, a challenge here. Does that cause tunnel vision if I'm attracting people just like me?
Well, you want people who are aligned with your core values because ideally If you have people who are aligned with your core values, they're gonna think and act like you. Mm-hmm. And, and that's what you need in your organization. That's part of your secret sauce to your organization, especially as a business owner, right? Like it, it's a little bit different at a corporate level, but at a business owner level, it, it, it, you know, with an organization of 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, up to about probably 200 employees, um, it really is kind of more of that, that, that intimate Um, and, and you want people to be aligned like you. I've, I've talked to people, I met a guy on an airplane one time and he worked for a large video streaming, um, company. And he was talking to me about his best performing person was driving him and everyone else in the organization crazy.
Interesting. And why was that?
Because they weren't aligned with the values.
Okay.
And so it was just like, he was just like, I, it seems, it seems counterintuitive, but I need to let this person go even though they're the highest performer because they were causing more problems than they were on the upside of being the highest performer. So that was them, you know, again, not being and acting like, like you want. So if, if you don't want stress, if you don't want frustration, if you like, and, and just like, you know, when you look at your clients too, I mean, your clients who are your easiest clients and your best clients, this, that, the other. They think and act like you, they're aligned with your core values, in all honesty, right?
That's a great point. As a, as a small organization, that's your dis— the biggest distinguishing factor is that you're not generic and that you have something that's really cutting edge and distinct about you. So clone that. Um, you know, I had an employee once come to me and he is like, you know, I've been looking at other job opportunities, you're not paying me enough, and really put pressure on me to give him a raise. And my initial response is they should be fired, but maybe that's not the right response. If they're not loyal to me, maybe they should be gone. Are there any Any indications of the, the employee's mindset when they do that negotiation for salary? Mm-hmm. Um, any insights you have around that?
Well, I think, you know, again, it all starts in your hiring process.
Okay.
So when you are hiring people, it is really important that you understand what the market is paying for the role, and you need to be in like the 90 to 110% of what the market's paying for the role. Because there's so much information out there. No one wants to be, no one, no one wants to feel undervalued.
Right. Okay. I love that. I love that line.
So it really starts there. So if you start there, then that person isn't gonna come to you and say, I need to be paid more.
Yeah.
And then, but, but you do need to be cognizant of paying attention and having some sort of process for Annual reviews, cost of living increases, etc., because people do deserve modest increases. But the one thing that we also do is we provide a lot of benefits to our clients. We provide 401k with matching. We provide lots of PTO. We provide bonus holidays. We provide the standard holidays. We have little contests where you spin a wheel, you win a prize, da da da, and we track all of that. And in their annual review. We give them a total compensation. So they're seeing, oh my gosh, my insurance is really costing— I'm gonna throw out a number— $20,000 a year, and I only have to pay $2,000 towards that. I'm getting $18,000 in benefit. I got $2,000 in gift cards last year to all these places where I didn't have to make dinner. I got You know, an additional 8 days of bonus holidays because my office closed early the day before the 4th of July, or da da da. And we pay them for that because it's slow, right? And so when you track all of that, then it's like, oh my God, I'm not going anywhere. I, uh, and I, I'm, I'm, I'm good. I'm great. 'Cause I know I can't find this somewhere else.
I love that. Yeah, 'cause human nature to summarize, usually to the disadvantage of the employer, of what my benefits are. I love that. I want to end on a story. We were talking before about Insight Tax. There was another thing you did with a preschool, and I thought— this goes back to recruiting a little bit, but you helped a preschool get some top candidates, and it was so outside the box. I want our listeners to hear that. Do you know what I'm referring to?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Tell me the story. Well, it's an all-in, right? The workshops. Workshops, workshops, workshops. So yeah, so you wanna cast a wide net. Your, your, your most ideal candidate is not on Indeed. Your most ideal candidate is not currently on the job boards looking for a job.
Yeah.
They're at a job and they're like, well, it's okay, it's comfortable, it's whatever, but they're not willing to step outside that comfort zone and take a risk on looking, or, or there's nothing painful enough to make them want to, want to leave. So you wanna cast a wide net. Your most ideal candidate is probably working somewhere else right now. And again, not on job boards. So by hosting workshops, um, where you invite everyone in an industry. So we had a workshop for preschool teachers, assistant directors, and directors for, in a, in a market where our client was opening up a new preschool and we were looking to staff that preschool from scratch. And so we gave 'em dinner, um, we gave them continuing education credits, which they need every year. And, um, we had dialogue and we were able to identify people who had the qualities that we were looking for, alignment with our values, et cetera. And then we were able to approach them after the workshop and say, hey, you know, you're an assistant director at this school. We would love for you to apply to be a director. And this person I'm talking about in particular for this role, I, you know, I mean, had to, had to nurture her a little bit. It wasn't like, oh yeah, I'm in. But we planted that seed of like, hey, you could be a director. And then when she went back and she kind of thought about it, she's like, oh my gosh, my owner is the director of the school. The only way I'll become the director is if she sells. She's not leaving anywhere. I'll never be a director here. And it, it finally hit her. And so then she was like, Oh my gosh, and you believe I could be a director? Well, yeah, I am interested in this. So it— you got that casting that wide net, being creative, being where people aren't looking or thinking about switching jobs.
Yeah, I love it because the top performers, 5-star fits, are looking to learn. The best people want to know more. And so you already vetted them that way, and then you provide education so they don't even really necessarily know they're applying to be a candidate. They're just all improving, and then you get to cherry-pick who you want. Um, before I let you go, could you tell me a little bit about what the All In Company does?
So the All In Company does, um, a lot of things. We have a lot of programming. We have an app. So if you go to the, uh, the, the, the Google Play Store or you go to, um, the Apple App Store, you can download the All In Community app, and that is where, um, you, you can We, we, we provide so much content every week. We have free courses. We have lots of things on there that really just helps you go deeper into the book and start to put all of the stuff from All In into action into your companies and, and just kind of really keep you on that right track of, of being all in on your employees. Cuz when you're all in on them, they'll be all in on you. Uh, we also do, um, a workshop called Hair Is on Fire. And so, uh, that is, um, you know, an intensive Uh, workshop where you actually, we, we take you through exercises. Mm-hmm. You are getting the stuff outta your head. You are getting your 5-star employee scorecard dialed in so you can start using it right after the workshop and start using that to set the bar so that you're not settling for anyone who would be less than a 5-star fit for your organization. And you can do that at hairisonfire.com.
Oh, great. 'Cause I was gonna ask you that. So when your hair's on fire and you need to hire, Go to hairsonfire.com. Thank you so much, Danielle, for today's interview. It was a pleasure again, as always, talking with you.
Thanks, Mike. Cheers to being all in.
Cheers.
