Ep 63 Youpreneur Founder Chris Ducker | #MUIYB Mike Up In Your Business Podcast

Foreign.

So dude, why are we doing this interview? Oh, you know, I got notes here. You built, dude, you're an expat. So tell me about this.

You know, I'm not an expat anymore. You know, I'm, I'm an repatriated expat. I'm an ex expat.

Where were you born? Like what city?

London. Sheffield.

Oh, London boy.

London geezer. Fancy guy Richie, mate. You know, Guy Richie would call me up for his next film when he like, you know. Wow.

So you leave London to go to where in Asia? The Philippines.

Philippines? What?

London, man, like everyone wants to go to London. Yeah, well, why would you leave?

Have we actually, is this actually the beginning of the interview now?

The beginning was the fights with our wives.

Brilliant.

Great.

Yeah, that works. Okay, so. Work, work took me out there. I, I, you know, the last 18 months of living in the UK was not pleasant for me. My marriage broke up, my mother passed away. The smaller publishing company that I was working for and had been at for about five years kind of almost built my career there. Fundamentally got acquired by a much, much larger publishing company in London. And so it went from kind of like a really easy commute, you know, on the train for like 15 minutes to a one hour commute into the city of London in like the big company feel. I didn't like the new boss. I didn't like what I was really doing, even though was kind of doing the same thing, but it was for a different company, a different, you know, set of publications, etc. Etc. Just wasn't into it was very kind of disheartened by obviously everything from a personal perspective as well. And I was headhunted and went out and worked for one of the large international banks over there for a couple of years and then set up my own firm, consulting firm, which I kind of continue to do a similar type of thing that I was already doing for myself and with other clients. A lot of sales training, a lot of leadership training with particularly sales management. And then we opened up the doors to Live2Sell, which is our call center facility, which is still rocking and rolling and you know, 400 employees around the clock. And that kind of like that was the last little bit of kind of like real true blue B2B that I've done. Everything after that has kind of been B2C to a certain degree. 2010 opened up the doors to virtual staff finder. We've now hired over 8,000 VAs for entrepreneurs and business owners around the world, which is great. That still Rocks and rolls. And then 2015 opened up the doors to the upon a brand.

Oh, I didn't know that brand was that new.

Yeah, five years. Five, Almost six years. Pretty much six years now. And so, yeah, you know, membership course, coaching program, live event, bestselling book, all that fun stuff. It's been a busy five, six years with, with you. And that's kind of what I focus on now. Virtual staff finder Runs itself. Live to sell Runs itself. I got management teams in place for both companies. I spend probably two hours a month on both of those companies combined. And the rest of the time I spend time now. Really most of what I do now is coaching. I coach other people that want to build profitable businesses around their brands.

So with all that success in the Philippines, you're like, I'm out of here. I got it. Why'd you go back to London? Or are you in London again now?

We're based in Cambridge now. Okay.

Now even fancier.

Yeah, yeah, we went a little fancy, you know, I came back with a little bit more money, Mike. That was what it was. I always kind of figured, you know, I would come back to London very regularly, once a year, sometimes twice, sometimes even three times a year, depending on what was happening business wise and whatnot. And it was 2000, I'm going to say probably 2016. My wife and I, I got remarried, obviously in 2007. My wife and I, we already had one little one at the time, Charlie. And we came over to the uk, we were like, let's just do six weeks before he kind of like really starts primary properly and all the rest of it. And you've got this, this time. We rented a little flat off of Airbnb for six weeks in Wimbledon on the old stomping grounds where I was born and raised in Wimbledon and just loved it, you know, just, just love the ability to be able to go to the theater, to go to these big, big parks and spend real time, real family time, kind of like outside of the house and everything you see. The Philippines is awesome, Mike. It's an awesome country. Like, everybody should visit the Philippines in their life. I genuinely believe that the people are the nicest people you'll ever meet in your life anywhere on the planet. They can't do enough for you if you're a guest in their home or even if you just stay in a hotel or whatever. Like, I mean, bend over backwards stuff, right? And to start up a business there and to hire hundreds and hundreds of people was honestly one of the biggest privileges of My entire career because they're so eager to learn, they're so hardworking and they're so family orientated that that actually transfers into the workplace. So they end up being super loyal as employees as well. And so like, for example, my middle and upper management in my companies in the Philippines today, the average tenorship is probably 10 years. Yeah, yeah. Out of those guys. And we're talking like 20, 30, folks. Right. Obviously further, you know, you go down the totem pole a little bit in terms of rank and everything. There's a little bit more turnover here and there, but ultimately, you know, it was a great place to be. But once you've been there for as long as I was there and you've kind of seen everything and you've done everything, there's little things that start to kind of get on your nerves, if I'm to be honest.

Right, and Those are your 400 employees. I'm just filling in the blanks.

Not those guys. No, not, not those guys at all. Like little things like the non stop heat. Like there's only two seasons. There's hot and there's wet and humid. That's it. Right. So. And we're talking like average temperatures of like 35 degrees. I don't know what that is in what you guys use.

110.

There you go. All right. So like massive crazy all year round. Sometimes a little colder, but not much. And just sort of like I lived there for a long time, dude, and I never acclimatized. Like, I always needed air conditioning everywhere I went. And so it was like little things like that little things. Just like things move very slowly there as well, which in one on one hand is amazing. Right? They, you know, they had that whole kind of like Spanish influence back in the day and you know, the whole manana, manana thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Which is amazing. It's amazing when you want it to be like that. But if you want things done, you know, like most entrepreneurs, when you want to rock and roll and things take a month instead of like three days, that kind of stuff drives you a little nuts as well. And if I'm to be honest with you, I was lacking a peer group over there as well. It wasn't so bad when I first got there and I was just an employee or a consultant because there's many foreigners, expats that are there, that are in that kind of role, and you can kind of like socialize relatively easily. Right. But once you become a business owner, and particularly once you hire as many people as we hire. You gotta. You gotta take care of yourself locally. You can't put yourself any risk. And hanging out in bars till all hours and. What do you mean?

Violence and stuff? Like, people, you've just.

You've just got to be. You've just got to be aware that you've got responsibilities. You know what I'm saying? And it's like also the level of discussion. Once I started traveling internationally, more and more. 20, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, speaking internationally, et cetera, et cetera, you just meet a different level of human being from a business perspective, mindset perspective. You want to hang out with those people more. I know you know what I'm talking about. And so it's like something had to give. And my wife could kind of sense that I was becoming a little. Not bored, per se, not upset or angry or any of those things. Just I was. I was fidgety, she could say. And, you know, when we were in the UK for as long as we were in 2016, we ran a little event. We did lots of sightseeing. We went to the theater a whole bunch of times. Like, there's more stuff to do. Yeah. We were like, if we're going to do it, we need to do it before Charlie hits high school.

Right? How?

He's. He's almost 13 now, so this is his first year of high school now.

Okay.

Yeah. And so, yeah, we were like, hey, if we're going to do it, we've got to do it before he's that age. Then Cassandra came along. She's three and a half going on, you know, 21.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so I get you. And so we had to make the call. And we made the call and we made. We found a beautiful listed property here in the countryside in English, in England. And we completely Renault the entire place, refurbished the entire place, brought it back up to kind of modern standards and whatnot. And I've got. I've got my. I've got my. My little slice of the English pie now, man. And then we love it, and we're all super happy. The wife is super happy. The kids are super happy. I'm super happy. So the mo. It was the right time to make the move.

Is your wife from the Philippines?

She is Filipino. Yeah.

Okay. So she's now leaving her family, I presume, behind. So are you doing the reverse now and visiting the Philippines for six weeks?

Yeah. I mean, obviously, in the last year, we haven't been there. We were both there December 2019, the first time, the last time Rather okay for company annual Christmas gala. And you know, that was the last time I was kind of in a room with that many people, quite frankly, even though I did a short hop over to the United States in February last year. But yeah, I mean, you know, the plan was always kind of like for her to kind of head over there for two, three weeks on her own every year, see all the friends, spend lots of time, just her maybe with. With, you know, with Cassie, with the younger one and. And then kind of like, you know, for us to all go each. Each year as a family as well. It hasn't happened obviously because of being going on this last year, but hopefully, hopefully soon we'll be able to do that again. But yeah, it's interesting because here we are still running these businesses with all these employees and we still got property over there and all that sort of stuff. And. And we're just managing it all from the uk.

That's what I'm super curious about. How do you run a business or manage it from the uk?

You have an incredible executive assistant local in the Philippines, in the UK Philippines that talk to each other every single day. My.

They act like a liaisons for both sides, kind of the conduit.

Yeah, yeah, we like to. I like to. I'm really regimented, man. Like, I like to plan out and schedule everything. Like the whole adage of like, if it doesn't get scheduled, it won't get done. Right. And so my EA in the Philippines has been with us for about seven years. She knows me better than like almost as well as my wife, literally. And so, you know, dude, she's a life saver. Yeah. Yeah. Forget boss. Mother's Day is coming up. Oh, shoot. It is, right?

Yeah.

What do I do? What do I do? It's okay. I've ordered flowers and chocolates. You just need to pick up something expensive. Awesome. You know what I mean? She's gold. She's gold, dude. And so. And then, you know, we have got an EA here now that's been with us for almost two years. She handles kind of everything here. She works with the misses on all the school stuff. She works with me on all the business stuff and kind of just managing everything here. Everything from, you know, tax returns that need to be filed. Right. The way down to making sure that I've got my favorite, you know, bottle of bourbon on the shelf when I want it.

What is your favorite bottle of bourbon?

Every day? Bourbon. Not that I drink it every day, but of course every day. I would say it used to be Makers. Just a good old fashioned Makers on the rocks. But I've kind of switched a little bit recently. I'm kind of like into Whistle Pig now.

Oh, I just got my first Whistle Pig. I haven't tried it yet.

And Angel's Envy is phenomenal. Michael Hyatt introduced me to Angel's Envy about five or six years ago. We had a dinner. So what, he's.

He's a booze hound.

Oh, you uncontrollable.

I hadn't been there with him once. I barely know him.

Yeah, no, he's a really nice guy. But yeah, he introduced me to the Angels Envy. I was like, oh, this is great. And so I used to sneak them back in my luggage. You know, you wrap them up in, in bubble wrap and put them in the middle.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh yeah. And so yeah, that's kind of my everyday is, is probably whistlepig right now. But for the longest time it's been makers. Just something about unzipping that little, that little wax seal.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I like a Makers. Makers is nice.

So let me ask you about the ea because I think some people have hesitancy around this. You said your EA helps, it sounds like with personal stuff. And at least for me there's a discomfort. I have an assistant here who helps with all my business scheduling and some personal scheduling. But if I need like a plumber to come to my house or something, there's a certain point where I feel that I'm putting on that person something that's unfair, almost demeaning. What kind of works do you assign to them and how do you navigate? Do you feel that emotion?

No, I don't. And to be really honest with you, yeah, I think one of the reasons why, I guess I might have kind of felt like that a little bit years ago, but I certainly don't feel like it now. And I think the reason why is because I've just been delegating so much so many different types of team members for so long now that it just becomes second nature to a certain degree. And you know, like for example, we had a storm here in the UK about a month ago a couple of off. We have about a half an acre piece of land here on the back of the property. And unfortunately right at the other side of our fence there's horse paddocks. So we got horses at the end of our garden. I don't have to pay for them.

Oh, this is your neighbor's horses?

Yeah, yeah, the kids can feed them carrots and stuff, but we don't have to pay vet bills.

Oh my God. It's the best type of horses not to own.

So. So there's three horses and there's kind of fence paneling that runs kind of along that end of the garden and kind of like adjacent to that. And the storm, a couple of the panels got really blown out of whack and we had to replace a couple of the posts with kind of like cement studs and all this kind of stuff. And I was just like, I could get online and I could find someone to come and do it and you know, I haven't really needed anything done other than kind of like the grass mode, which, you know, I just inherited the gardener from the old owners of the house, you know, that kind of thing. So I'm just like, okay, what am I? What, I could spend time trying to do this myself. But no, I just sent a quick slack message and you know, four days later, someone's house taking care of it kind of thing. And here's the thing, I don't look at that as demeaning. I don't think there's that low, like, and I pay my people well. I just want to state that for the record as well. So it's like you are here predominantly to support me as the leader of the business. As I talk about in a lot of my training as entrepreneurs, we are visionaries, we need to work on the business. We shouldn't be stuck working in it or doing things that stop us from working on the business. And so, you know, it's like you are here to support me within reason, obviously to help my days become as easy as possible so that I can get as much output done as possible for my paying clients. And that's kind of like. And we have across the board in our group of companies, there's never ever going to be a discussion of that's not my job. You're part of a team. If somebody's off sick, somebody's on vacation, and I ask you to do something that you don't usually do day to day in your role, you don't say no, you don't bitch and moan about it, you just get on and do it. Because we're a team. It's that simple. Everybody works together. And I think that's kind of just, that's just a vision thing, a core value thing that has developed over a number of years, obviously. But it, it works, man, because we've got a great team, phenomenal people work. Do you.

Okay, so Is that a thing you have to train people that nothing is below you? We all do this together. We're all team. Or is that something that's just kind of wired into people and you hire accordingly?

I think it's probably a combination of both, if I'm to be honest with you. We have an onboarding. We have an onboarding meeting in the Philippines every week for anybody that's hired that week. And then virtually with the virtual employees, we have an onboarding every month for anybody that's joined the team throughout the course of that month. And I don't run those meetings or those calls or whatever. That's handled by somebody on my management. And the whole point is this is what we do for our clients and this is what we as a company will do for you as a team member. We used to follow the whole Starbucks partner thing for a while, but it got a little old and boring after a while. So we just say, you're just part of the team. This is what we will do for you. We will pay you fairly. We will give you your money when you're supposed to be getting it. You'll never have to wait for it. We'll pay all your government contributions and your taxes and your, you know, health benefits and yada, yada, yada, yada, yada, will be a nice bunch of people to work for. We'll never ask you to do anything that you're not uncomfortable or, or that you feel uncomfortable doing in any way, shape or form, professionally, personally, whatever. And we'll embrace you no matter who you love, no matter where you come from, no matter what color your skin is. It doesn't matter what. We'll embrace you because it's all one for all and all for one. However, this is what we need you to do for us. And then we. You just go through it, you know, you got to be part of the team, no job is too small, etc. Etc. Etc. So when I'm back in the Philippines and I see maybe there's some trash that's, oh, you know, the trash bin is overflowing, for example, or the water just when I was there in the last time, the water cooler. At mtl, I'm the founder and CEO of this multi million dollar business. I could quite easily pick up the phone in my tiny little cupboard of an office that I have there now because I'm never there. And I could say, hey, the water cooler's run out. Someone's got to go replace it. I could do that. Or I could walk to the utility area in the office. Grab one and empty that bad boy and put one on top of the water cooler myself, which I did. I looked at some of the employees that had joined us in the last year that had never seen me in person before and their mouths were like.

Yeah, well, they were shocked because you ripped your shirt off first.

Yeah, well, no.

What?

I did all the records, your honor. I poured the water over my shirt. Okay.

It was like a scene out of Flash Dance. The music kicks on.

That's right. And then I moonwalked my ass all the way down one of the aisles with the water in hand like this.

Into the, into the, the fade. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, no wonder you got such a great culture. Hey, dude, you mentioned Slack. You know, you got Forge employees there. Is that a better communication tool than email? And.

Well, I don't. Obviously I don't communicate with all 400 employees. Right. Yeah, I communicate with actually probably only about half a dozen people on a, on a quote unquote daily basis. The rest of it's all obviously staggered from an organization perspective. I will say though, Slack has pretty much killed email for us as a business. That doesn't mean that I, I'm not in my inbox for, I probably reckon maybe an hour a day I spend in my inbox. Couple of chunks. Couple of chunks. Usually late morning, I do creative work first. I don't get into admin stuff. So late morning, 10:30, 11:00 clock, I will get into email for the first time. And then usually it's the last thing I check before I sign off at around 4pm each day. And that's kind of. That's the way it's been for quite some time, actually a good few years. Few years. I think it's just, it's just easier. Plus, hey, can we talk about how amazing Slack's mobile app is?

I don't know anything about Slack, so tell me, dude.

Oh my gosh, it's so easy to use. And unless you're a tight ass and you've got the free version, the search facility on the paid version, and the fact you can archive everything, files, images, conversations, the whole lot. I mean, it's all right here literally on your phone all the time. And it's amazing. It just, it makes, honestly, it genuinely makes running particularly a business where there's a lot of stuff going on online. Sales reports via, you know, Samcart, which is our shopping cart. Guys. You know, we use. Who are we using for accounting now? Xero for accounting. You know, it all kind of just like everything kind of integrates with each other. Reports go up in there daily, weekly, monthly reports. You can bring people that are not in your business into your area of Slack as well. So now you're conversing with suppliers and freelancers and all that kind of stuff as well. And it just works very, very well. And the mobile experience is one of the best I've ever had on the business app. Oh, interesting. Yeah.

Hey, tell me about Upreneur again. I didn't realize that you started it so recently in 2015. What does Upreneur do? How is it working nowadays?

So Uprenur, I believe, and it's a bit of a bold statement, but I've been making it ever since we opened the doors to it in 2015. I believe upon Ear will ultimately be my life's work. And, you know, it all started with actually. And you'll. You'll get this as a keynote speaker yourself. I was doing a session in Vegas and my slides went dead just as I was wrapping up. I talk, and if I'm honest, guilty as charged, your honor. I had not prepped as well for this talk as I should have. Every speaker has been there. My slides go dead, and I've got about 12 or 13 minutes left on.

My clock, and I just start dancing. Yeah, I don't know.

Can I get a spotlight up here? And what happened was, I think, well, you know, I could wrap early and I could, you know, just find something real quick and just wrap it up early. Or I could, you know, try and feel things out a little bit and ad lib, which is what I did. And for the first time ever, I uttered the words the business of you. And talking about how as entrepreneurs, regardless of what we do and what field we're in, we are seen as leaders. And leaders have to continue to learn in order to continue to lead. And if you're going to lead in any way whatsoever, holy moly. You should do it in as most of a unapologetic, unique way as possible. And part of the talk was about marketing like a magnet. So you attract the best and you repel the rest, like your whole. Your viable, attractive tribe thing. Right. And so I went back to that in my closing kind of statement, brought that back in again, and I was like, remember the whole market, like a magnet thing, the business of you. And then I ended with, and when you build the business of you, it's 100% original and it can never be copied. Thank you very much. And everyone was like, I got a Standing ovation, people. Oh, the business of you. The business of you. The business. Forget about the rest of the talk. It was like that last 10 minutes really resonated, dude. Really resonated. And so youpreneur was born from that, the years. And now what we do is we basically help all about and kind of like the people that they want to serve. That's what a youpreneur is. So I go by the time I'm done with a podcast interview or a session on stage or a webinar, whatever is like, you might not identify with that word the first time you hear it, but by the time I'm done, you will do and you will start calling yourself a youpreneur. And so that's where my build market monetize framework came about. I just did a Venn diagram, three circles. How do you do this? How do you build the business of you? Well, you got to build the foundations and you got to market it and spread your message and then you gotta start making money. Build market monetize boom came in like half an hour. And we just build it all out from there. Rise of the youpreneur. The book came out done incredibly well. I self published it. It's the best move I ever made because I made so much money with the book. I did the audiobook, I did the, you know, the ebook. We've done other copies for special events. We've done paperback on am. It's. It's phenomenal.

Self publishing is the way to go. There's a saying that speaking in this industry, when your slides go down, when you don't know what to do next, a Venn is best. You just start Venn diagramming and people are like, oh, genius.

Yeah.

Do you remember we ruined. So I think the funniest speech I've been involved in is the one that you and I ruined. The first time we met face to face was at Herman's event, Todd's. And there's someone on stage. And I walk in, I'm like, it's Chris Stalker. And I don't know, a hundred, two hundred people in the room. Like, everyone kind of looks over. You're like, it's Mike McAllow.

It's like, what's up?

We do get slow motion hug.

Yeah.

The entire event, like looking over as we're high fiving, we're low talking very loudly.

Yes, yes. At the back of the room.

Todd just texted me from stage.

He's like, can you shut the fuck? We were those people. It was great. And you know what? That. You know. You know, we've been. I've been doing this a long time online. We're creating content and all the rest of it, and there were, you know, maybe half a dozen people, yourself included, that I kind of met, discovered, found, connected with, and for me and you, it was all the way back at Toilet Entrepreneur.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Way back and 12 years ago, a long time ago. And I'll never forget I interviewed you for my podcast at the time. I don't even know what year this was now. It must have been 2011, maybe 2012. I don't know. Something like that. And there was just that instant kind of feeling like, this is a dude I want to get to know, right? Oh, I want to hang out with this guy. Yeah, yeah. Like, I. Like, I want to hang with this guy. I want to, you know, I want to get to know him better. But it's incredible that we never actually. Even though we were real close a couple times, we never actually did get to meet in person until, like, what was that, 2018, right before code, I guess. 2019.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Two ships in the night. Hey, are we supposed to promote anything for you? Like, do you have anything new or something? Do we supposed to sell anything to our listeners?

Just how incredibly robust and sexy my chin is?

Dude, you have a nice chin. You wear that chin well. I cover mine up with this beard. I have a very awkward chin and an awkwardly sized Adam's apple, so I decided to grow this long.

Let's have a look at Adam's apple. Come on. Go.

Oh, yeah.

It's like an old man's advent.

It's like a whole human is down in my throat, so I'm trying to cover it. It's like Quasimodes coming out through my neck.

Yeah, yeah.

Seriously, are we promoting anything of yours?

No, there's. There's nothing really to promote.

Why the fuck do we even do this, Chris?

Yeah, you know, just. Just hang out and talk and stuff. I mean, look, if. If there is anybody that, you know, is interested in finding out a little bit more about how I can help them, they can head over to chrisducker.com I got a free little PDF done. As leaders and leaders have to continue to learn in order to continue to lead. And if you're going to lead in any way whatsoever. Holy moly. You should do it in as most of a unapologetic, unique way as possible. And part of the talk was about marketing like a magnet. So you attract the best and you repel the rest. Like your whole your vibe will attract your tribe thing, right? And so I went back to that in my closing kind of statement, brought that back in again, and I was like, remember the whole market, like a magnet thing, the business of you. And then I ended with, and when you build the business of you, it's 100% original and. And it can never be copied. Thank you very much. And everyone was like, I got a standing ovation, people, all. The business of you. The business of you. The business. Forget about the rest of the talk. It was like that last 10 minutes really resonated, dude. Really resonated. And so youpreneur was born from that building the business of you. So ultimately, it's morphed and kind of pivoted a little bit over the years. And now what we do is we basically help entrepreneurs, leaders, authors, speakers, coaches, consultants, content creators, anybody really building a business based around them, their personality, which I know you're all about, and kind of like the people that they want to serve. That's what a youpreneur is. So my goal, by the time I'm done with a podcast interview or a session on stage or a webinar, whatever, it's like you might not identify with that word the first time you hear it, but by the time I'm done, you will do, and you will start calling yourself a youpreneur. And so that's where my build market monetize framework came about. I just did a venn diagram. Three circles. How do you do this? How do you build the business of you? Where you got to build the foundations and you got to market it and spread your message and then you got to start making money. Build market monetize boom came in like half an hour. And we just build it all out from there. Rise of the youpreneur. The book came out, done incredibly well. I self published. It was the best move I ever made because I made so much money with the book. I did the audiobook, I did the, you know, the e book. We've done other copies for special events. We've done paperback on Amazon. It's. It's phenomenal.

Self publishing is the way to go. There's a saying that speaking in this industry, when your slides go down, when you don't know what to do next, a ven is best. You just start to start Venn diagramming people. Oh, genius.

Yeah.

Do you remember we ruined. So I think the funniest speech I've been involved in is the one that you and I ruined. The first time we met face to face was at Herman's event, Todd's. And there's someone on stage. And I walk in, I'm like, it's Chris Stalker. And there's, I don't know, 100, 200 people in the room. Like, everyone kind of looks over. You're like, it's Mike McAllow.

It's like, what's up?

We do get slow motion hug.

Yeah.

The entire event, like, looking over is for high fiving. We're low talking very loudly.

Yes, yes. At the back of the room.

Todd just texted me from stage.

He's like, can you shut the fuck? We were those people. It was. It was great. And you know what? That, you know, you know, we've been. I've been doing this a long time online. We're creating content and all the rest of it. And there were, you know, maybe half a dozen people, yourself included, that I kind of met, discovered, found, connected with. And for me and you, it was all the way back at Toilet Entrepreneur.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Way back. And 12 years ago, a long time ago. And I'll never forget, I interviewed you for my podcast at the time. I don't even know what year this was now. It must have been 2011, maybe 2012. I don't know. Something like that. And there was just that instant kind of feeling like, this is a dude. I want to get to know this guy. Yeah, yeah. Like, I. Like, I want to hang with this guy. I want to, you know, I want to get to know him better. But it's incredible that we never actually. Even though we were real close a couple times, we never actually did get to meet in person until, like, what was that, 20, right before COVID I guess. 2019.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Two ships in the night. Hey, are we supposed to promote anything for you? Like, do you have anything new or something? Do we supposed to sell anything to.

Our listener just how incredibly robust and sexy my. My chin is?

Dude, you have a nice chin. You wear that chin well. I cover mine up with this beard. I have a very awkward chin and. And an awkwardly sized Adam's apple, so I decided to grow this long.

Let's have a look at Adam's apple.

Come on. Go, go. Look at that.

Oh, yeah. It's like an old man's Adam.

It's like a whole human is down in my throat, so I'm trying to cover it. It's like Quasimodo's coming out through my neck.

Yeah, yeah.

Seriously, are we promoting anything of Yours?

No, there's. There's nothing really to promote.

Why the fuck do we even do this, Chris?

Yeah, you know, just, just hang out and talk and stuff. I mean, look, if there is anybody that, you know, is interested in finding out a little bit more about how I can help them, they can head over to chrisducker.com I got a free little PDF document on there which is called the personal Branding Roadmap. And it's kind of like the top 10 high level steps you need to consider to kind of build a profitable personal brand. They can go check that out, they can follow me on all the socials. Chris Ducker. But other than that, I'm just happy to be here. Happy to spend time with you, brother, more than anything else. Likewise.

No, this is awesome. These insights were fantastic. And I gotta check out Slack for my own business.

Honestly, you genuinely have to.

I do. Like I use a thing called Monday.

Monday is.

It's me.

To be honest.

It's meh.

Yeah, you. You could put it on the same kind of, the same sort of pain as, as, as Slack, but in terms of like, you know, management of a team and projects and things like that. But there's something about Slack. I've tried a whole, you know, there's like Todoist and Trello.

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, we tried.

I've tried them all, you know, because I got to try them all. I have to because I want my team to be as productive and as happy doing what they're doing day to day for me as possible. And so we try all these things out, but Slack by far is just, it's come out on top over and over and over again. There's one thing, if there's any like high up executives from Slack that happen, they all listen to this conversation.

Yeah, they all listen. That's why I dissed on Monday, because it's only Slack listeners.

That's right. Good. And I want y' all to know at Slack, you have to allow us to record audio messages natively. There's a workaround to do it, but it's a pain in the butt.

Oh, you gotta record it.

Just record quick 60 second memos from my team in the Slack app and we can't do that yet.

I'll be done within one week of this going live.

That's my commitment to you.

Thank you, Chris Stocker.

You're.

You're a stud, dude. You're a joy and a stud and an entrepreneur who does pretty well too. Thanks for joining me.

I'm doing all right. I appreciate you, man. Thanks for having me. Appreciate you.