How to Find Your Ideal Customer Profile

Entrepreneurship is hard, but the process can be simplified. You can achieve success faster, sooner, and easier. I'm Mike Michalowicz, and I'm on a mission to eradicate entrepreneurial poverty. My goal for this episode and every episode is to serve you on your journey. Let's start right now on Entrepreneurship Simplified. You don't apologize to me. I'm the one who interrupted the show.

No, I grabbed my phone to start silencing it.

Oh, okay.

Here we go.

This is episode 17. We're back on track. We're a little bit disoriented, I think is the right choice of words.

I think that's the right word for today.

But this show's called Entrepreneurship Simplified, and we're here today to talk about understanding your best customer. And I wanna introduce you, Amy Cartelli, my amazing co-host, longtime friend. And as I shared in our first take of this, I screwed up, is you are the matriarch of our business. I just appreciate how you're here to love on our colleagues, to listen to the needs and challenges they're facing, to celebrate their wins and victories. Just thank you for doing that.

Thank you. I think it's honestly the— it's an honor to be told that I have that role here, but I love how much that is the case for every single person in the office that you and Kelsey have created. It's— you included are such a comfort. Rough day today for me, and I came in and just— there's a lovingness in this office that cannot be beat.

Yeah, good people.

Yeah, good people. And Mike, Good people writing wonderful business books for entrepreneurs, including Profit First and All In and Pumpkin Plan, Clockwork. The list goes on and on. And you have another one coming out.

Yeah, we got a brand new personal finance book coming out. Well, I shouldn't say brand new because it's not out yet, but in 2026. And I think it's necessary. There was— there's been so many people that have read Profit First and they've translated it to their personal finances successfully. Now, there's a chapter in it, But they don't understand the nuanced components. Secondly, there's a whole community that will never discover Profit First because they're not business owners.

Right.

But they're employees, perhaps, for business owners. And that community needs to be served.

Yeah.

So I've been working diligently on it.

Awesome.

There, I've been working with employees of companies, people who are, who have a source of income that is not entrepreneurial and have learned a lot in the process. And I'm really excited to release this book.

So. Awesome. Awesome. Awesome. And some other good news came in today, which you're not talking about just yet.

Yet.

That little hint at something coming.

You could uplevel how we're serving entrepreneurs in a great way.

So we— That's so exciting.

We got the verbal commitment that we hope would come through, but didn't expect.

Yeah.

But it actually came through. That's great. And so by Friday of this week, we should have the, the basic contractual stuff bullet pointed down, and then we can start talking about it publicly. Mm-hmm. But it just could be good news. It, it's just another way for us to be of service to entrepreneurs.

Yeah. Right.

So, and we have great, great allies in that, and that's what was important to us.

Fantastic. All right, Mike. Today, I want to talk about understanding your customer.

OK.

There was a Forbes article, For Greater Success, Get to Know Your Customer. The article emphasizes the importance of continuously understanding your customer's evolving needs and expectations through creating an ideal customer profile, identifying their desired outcomes, and conducting effective customer interviews to build stronger customer relationships and align sales and marketing strategies. There are some key points involved with that, including The first one, clear communication.

Yeah.

And you—

it's funny when you were reading through that article, the— I have it here in my hand too. It says evolving needs and expectations through creating an ideal customer profile. So I want to first define what that is.

Okay.

So ICP is the term that gets thrown around, but it's the customer you're trying to serve and you have to define them, their needs, their wants, their desires. Maybe there's demographical information, like who are they? How do you define them? An example I like to use is the Savannah Bananas. So it's founded by Jesse Cole, Emily Cole. They're in, shockingly, Savannah. Savannah.

Yeah.

Have you been to one of their games?

I have not. And my niece just said she went to one and she thought it was fantastic.

It's so much fun. They've redefined baseball. It's the Harlem Globetrotters for baseball.

Yeah.

And what they have at their offices in Savannah, they have a conference table and there's a pair of young girls' shoes, sneakers sitting there. Maybe this is mythology, but how I remember Jesse telling me the story is that after they were cleaning out the stadium after one of their games, they saw a pair of these little girl's shoes. What they've concluded is that the family was so engaged and having so much fun that they left carrying her out without her shoes.

Yeah.

They said that's the experience. What they're trying to do is they're trying to get people away from the cell phones, away from the televisions, and get back to authentic traditional family entertainment where there's fun and laughter together. Maybe like a circus as an example, but this is another flavor of it. When they have a meeting, the team, and they discuss how are we going to serve our clients, what are our strategic decisions we're making, the shoes always have a seat at the table. They sit right in there. That chair is not allowed to be occupied. The shoes just sit on the table. They ask, are we caring for her?

Hmm.

She, Demographically, family, maybe it's a young family. Psychographically, someone that's fully engaged, someone that wants to get out of the house and do something together. The shoes represent that ideal customer.

Gotcha.

And so they're always considering it. So we have to know that. Now, the first point you brought up was clear communication.

Yeah.

You know, Savannah Bananas, could you imagine they say like, you know, slugger night, you know, come with your bowling crew. And they had these things that were not family-oriented, but maybe club or community-oriented a different way. Now there is a disconnect, right? If they say, you know, the kindergarten races are going to happen with, you know, bring your kindergarten, they're going to have races. There's an alignment with the community they're looking to serve if it's young families.

Sure.

I'm not saying that's necessarily their core ICP. So the way you communicate with your audience will engage them or not. It's the ultimate filter. If I say, you know, big football game tonight, come to the tailgate and enjoy half-off beers, I presume it does not necessarily appeal to you, right? I don't know your affinity toward football, but I suspect not much.

It's not the thing that's gonna—

Not your thing, right?

Yeah.

But there's a certain community says, my God, this is like my dream come true, right? So you have to know Who your community is and exactly the words and languages or the things that they desire and the language that resonates with them. There is a book called Lingo by Jeffrey Shaw, which speaks about this. Every community has its language. You're clearly into fashion. You dress extremely well. I bet you if I mentioned some fashion brands, you'd be like, oh yeah, I know. I don't. I don't. So you could say those exact same things and all the glaze comes over my face. My wife's like, oh, that's a Tory Burch.

Tory Burch, right?

You know what I mean? what that is. Is that a tree? Is that a tree?

No. Okay.

It's like a birch tree. So she's like, oh, there's a Tory Burch. And I'm like, okay. And she's like, don't you understand? I'm like, no. When you speak the lingo of your community, they will get it inherently with just 2— Tory Burch means something in 2 words. At the same time, the rest of the world won't get it. That is the lingo. And when you can speak that language, there's a transfer of trust. If I say, you know, we— our clothing line is similar to the Tory Burch line, if that's appropriate. I don't even know.

Yeah.

You have a picture in your mind that pops up.

Right.

Lingo allows queer—

queer.

Yeah, maybe it does allow that, but it allows clear, also quick, clear, quick communication to your customer that I get you. There's an instant affinity and understanding for each other.

You're in that language. You speak in that language. Smart, right? All right, next one, better marketing. You can focus your efforts, efforts where they matter most, targeting the right people on the right platforms.

Yeah, so we gather in pools, uh, we go to certain events that people like us go to, we listen to certain podcasts that people listen to, we have similar political preferences. We, you know, we all jump into these different categories. There's a real interesting experiment you can run next time you're walking down a street anywhere in America. But cities are ideal for this because of the volume of people.

Yeah.

Look for how people that are walking together, how similarly they are dressed. It's interesting. You rarely see someone who's dressed goth and Tory Burch. Is that right?

Exactly. Exactly.

Together.

Right.

But you'll see 2 goth people or 2 Tory Burch people. There is a— pickleball is like taking off. There's one here in the township.

Okay.

There's a— they set up new courts. Everyone dresses the same.

It's the same.

The women—

It's the uniform.

Yeah, there's a uniform. That's the word I've been looking for. We have uniforms. So marketing, once you understand your ICP, you can speak to their pockets where they gather. You can understand and you can identify them through their uniform. And the uniform is not only how they dress, but absolutely is. It's not only the way they speak, but it absolutely is. It's not only the words they use, But it absolutely is. It, it, you'll see this homogenous thing.

Gotcha.

People like people like them. And so when you identify your community, you're gonna see these gathering points, market there and speak their language. And you'll be accepted in that community. The other interesting thing is you'll be perceived as everywhere. You may not be aware of this at a conscious level, but subconsciously you go to the same things. You have a routine.

Right.

The people just like you go in that same spot. Therefore, if I put my marketing, those 3 or 4, Regular spots you go, the perception is, I mean, God, they're everywhere.

Everywhere.

I can't stop seeing them.

It's 3 places, but to you it feels like your whole world.

Everywhere.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That makes sense.

Yeah.

Okay, last one. Product fit. When you know your ideal customer, you can create or adjust products and services to meet their needs more effectively.

Yeah, so what you do is you start observing the customer's wants, likes, and dislikes. You ask them, but observation, usually people speak the truth through their wallets, is a great way to do this. Are they consuming it or not? If they're not consuming it, you're off.

Yeah.

And you start adjusting. There was a concept, I want to attribute to Eric Ries, I'm not sure if he was, a concept called the MVP, the minimum viable product. What is a simple test I can get out there to see if you consume it or not? If you don't buy it, then I got an issue. If you do buy it, now I have something that's working and can I expand on it?

Hmm.

The example I like to use is Uber. They had this idea, oh, there's probably a community of people that want to commute and maybe they're willing to use a private vehicle. But to set that entire Technology and system is a big risk. What if it doesn't land?

Right.

So what they did, they simply did a text chain. They reached out to their friends and said, hey, next time you're in the city and you need to get around, would you be willing to use a private car if I can organize it for you? And if you're willing to do that, just text me when you want a car and tell me where you are. I'm on 39th and 7th. Okay, great. Then they would text a pool of— I think it was livery drivers in the beginning— saying, hey, we have someone on 39th And 7th that needs a pickup, would you be willing to do it? And they say yes, they would text you back. That's an MVP. It's laborious. It took them time, but they tested the viability.

Right.

So when it comes to product fit, you got to prove viability, mitigate your risk by not spending much, ideally, on it.

Gotcha.

Yeah.

Okay. All right. How to do it. Define the following for your avatar or ideal customer profile. And this is kind of what we did at our company retreat. This, um, this past, uh, October.

Yeah, I wanted to bring the sheets in here and I didn't. I left them in my office. I scanned them in. This is how we did. We started off with demographics. Demographics are the, um, measurables of an individual, um, that I consider hard statistics. And we're going to talk about psychographics in a minute, which are more ethereal, more, uh, malleable.

Okay.

But, you know, we are our age, which is the best age ever, by the way.

Totally.

Kids from the '70s. My God.

The best.

The best. So that's very easy to measure and it's very publicly available. So if I say I want to market to people that were born in the '70s, that means they're in their 40s or 50s right now. I can get that data very easily.

Sure.

Location, job, income, all those things are very easily determined. But I'll tell you, someone that's in their 20s that lives in Georgia and someone that's in their 70s living in Maine, has different behavioral patterns.

Right.

Just like someone in their 50s in North Dakota is different than someone that's 7 years old in San Diego. So knowing these things will allow you to adjust and cater to this, this community much more specifically.

Okay.

I have a friend, his name is Scott Weintraub, and one thing they did was really interesting was they did regional-based marketing.

Okay.

What they said is that they helped drug companies sell whatever the product is, blue pill.

We'll go with that one.

Blue pill. So we sell blue pill. And they ran these national ad campaigns. And they come back and say, wow, people in Chicago are buying at a big rate, but people in New York are not, in Atlanta, forget about it. And what they did, they said, well, the demographic makeup of Chicago is different than New York is different than Atlanta. We have to have regional-based marketing. So they changed the ads to speak to the demographics of that community, and then the blue pill sales exploded.

Wow.

And what they also realized in research is— I'm making this up— but the consumer base in Phoenix is very similar to the consumer base in, let's say, uh, St. Lucia, Florida. Again, I'm just making this up.

Sure.

And they started seeing these parallels. They said these were— you run This type of ad. But when you're in Chicago, which is very similar to Portland, Maine, you run those ads.

Okay.

And so that's all based upon demographical information.

Okay.

Very easy to test too. When you have demographics, you can, you can, you do your marketing and you look at the location, age group, see how they're responding, and then you see if you can find another age group that replicates that and run the same marketing. And if you get the same results, now you have statistical proof that this age group And, and some other demographic information, location, maybe they're, they're coastal or maybe they're interior US. You can then start replicating that very easily. So just don't just market, measure who you're marketing to.

Measure who you're marketing to. Okay. The next one, psychographics, their interests, values, and pain points. What drives their behavior?

You know, I asked you, uh, yesterday when we were reviewing this, we could discuss it. You said, yeah, yeah, yeah, cancer. We talked about cancer. The psychographic around cancer, as an example, that you have, the understanding and the way you perceive it is radically different than mine because you have experienced it and I haven't. And therefore, the way to talk about a product or service that is of service to addressing cancer is different to me than it is to you.

Mm-hmm.

So the key here with psychographics is to understand the values, the pain points, and the way to address it, the meaning behind it. I think the only way, I know the only way to get it is to actually ask your customer base or prospect base, how do you feel about this? To really engage with them and look for common threads, but make sure you're talking to the same customer base.

Right.

If I talk to 50 people who have been cancer patients and have overcome cancer like yourself, that storyline, I should see something in common. If I talk to a random population, You're going to hear very diverse things. And they may put you off. They may put you in the wrong direction. So just be very— you have to understand the demographic. And then you have to investigate the psychographic in that demographic.

Okay. Interesting.

Makes sense.

Yes, it does make sense. I have a side note. How do you know so much about marketing? You're not a marketing— you weren't a marketing major in—

No, you know what the biggest Bull is that like college teaches you anything?

Yeah, yeah.

You went to college?

Yeah.

And when you studied what?

Well, I use my degree every day. I was a psych major.

Oh yeah, okay, you're a psych major, you're a psych major.

It comes in handy with mothering.

It probably does. That's actually pretty cool. But I would wonder if it's just a small portion of the takeaways that you used.

It is.

I use very little I learned in college, but you do learn how to learn. You learn social things. I think I'm just so interested in marketing and particularly from the behavioral standpoint. So there's a lot to marketing and there's, there's, there's budgeting and there's all these other elements that don't appeal to me. But I'm really curious of how our mind operates. And selfishly, if I can figure out what the hell's going on in this, this pinhead of mine, I have some authority and control over it.

Right.

And I think But for the longest time, I didn't. I just did my routine.

Right.

But now I'm trying to consciously observe why is my routine my routine and what can I learn from it? And I think it's helped me.

I think it's a sign of your intelligence, Mike, to look at it.

Maybe.

So with behavior, how they engage with your business or others, what problems are they trying to solve?

Yeah, no one buys a fireplace. We buy a roaring fire. You know, we had a chimney cleaner come by and they said, you know, we'll have it so clean, it's going to be smooth inside. I've never stuck my head up the flue. Like, I don't care.

I don't care.

What I care is that we don't have a fire in the chimney.

Exactly.

So sell me on safety or reliability. But at the end of the day, really what I'm buying is I want a roaring fire and with no—

Experience.

An experience.

Yeah.

So you have to understand why people are buying what they buy. I'm buying— and people, it always ties to Maslow's hierarchy of needs. So we're buying Safety, protection. We're buying financial strength. We're buying basic survival needs, food, water, and stuff like that. It's actually not that complex.

That's—

I may have hit them all there. That's basically this. I'm buying significance in my community or some other things. But, but if you look at Maslow's hierarchy of needs, it identifies what, what people are really consuming. And yet many people market to the features. It's really those benefits we gotta be selling.

So interesting. Okay, last, refine and test. Start with assumptions, then refine your avatar based on real customer interactions and feedback.

Yeah, I think you just summarized it perfectly. That's the MVP. The real basic— I remember I did a— I was a guest on a TV show a long time ago. The show's called The Big Idea with Tony Deutsch. It was on CNBC.

I remember that.

You remember that show? I was on one of the segments and they bring a business in It's called the LiiGHT Glove, L-I-G-H-T. And what they invented, this is 20 years ago, they had invented a glove that could move a mouse and kind of like The Matrix, like you could open the screen, stuff like this with the glove. It was really cool. Maybe technology ahead of time. And, uh, they said, this is the most amazing product. And they demonstrated it. Like, oh, it's cool. I was like, well, what are customers saying? They said, well, customers are gonna buy this. We're further developing. It's like, well, what have you asked customers? Like, well, they don't. They're not using it yet. You know, this is what we're doing. They spent their life savings as a family on this. They raised money from investors. They had no customer samples. And so, you know where the story goes.

Yeah.

No one bought it.

No one bought it. Darn it. Darn it.

You ever see The King of Queens, that TV show?

Yeah.

I love—

He's really good at it.

He's great. What's his name? James— something James. Adam James?

No, you're right. It's—

It's there's a James in there.

It's a James.

But what's his? Do you remember his character's name? I don't remember it either.

God, no. And this is terrible.

I can't think of him. But he, we can both see him, right? He's kind of a square guy.

Yeah. But what he would do, thinking of him in Hitch.

Yeah, yeah.

In Hitch. Yeah.

He's in Mall Cop. What he would say is, like someone asked him, wait, what he thinks about something? He go, like it was such a funny move.

He was.

And then they say, so, but what do you really think? Yeah, he was great.

All right, speaking of somebody who knows how to, uh, help you with your customers—

Don Miller.

Don Miller.

Our boy.

Yeah, so, um, yeah, Building a StoryBrand. Um, let's talk about that as a resource. So making customers the hero. If you think your marketing communication as a story, your main character is the hero. Yes.

Yeah, yeah. Let me start off by— if anyone's listening to this podcast right now, if you're listening to this podcast right now and you don't have Building a StoryBrand, Get Building a StoryBrand. It is a game-changing book for marketing. I would also get the book Get Different to complement it. But Building a StoryBrand is remarkable.

The—

so what Don Miller did in his book is he took the hero journey, which is a very established methodology of storytelling.

Okay.

That goes back, I wanna say hundreds of years. And he put a modern spin on it. Similar to Profit First. Profit First is a technique using the envelope system that goes back hundreds of years. Put a modern spin on it, a new application of it. So Don did an extraordinary job with this. What a lot of businesses do is say, we are remarkable, we will come in and save the day. And the problem is, is that is not compelling storytelling. We, the consumer, want to be significant. So what explains is you're not the hero, you're the guide. You're helping the client be successful. You're helping them—

Become the hero.

Yeah. So instead of saying, we come in and clean up your fireplace, we make your fireplace safe because we're the best at it. Your hero, you say, host parties that people stare at your fireplace and are patting you on the back saying, this feels like I'm in a lodge. Now the customer's the hero. They're, you're, they're setting a story about what the outcome is they want. And you're simply the guide and say, we have the ways to get there. We can do it with you or for you in this case.

Smart.

Yeah.

So smart. The customer is always looking for survival. The human brain is wired to filter out information that doesn't help it survive or thrive. Your messaging must show how your product service help Or service helps customers succeed, be it saving money, gaining time, or achieving something important.

You read— I shared this before— you read quickly with enunciation. That is a skill.

Really?

Yeah, I, I blend words. I mumble, as you know, and it's just like, my gosh.

Thank you. But well, you, you have so much to say. If I had so much to say, I would be, I would be blending words too.

I think you just insulted me.

No.

So yeah, the customer is always looking for survival. We mentioned it earlier. And it ties into Maslow's hierarchy of needs. So let's just go through the whole hierarchy real quick.

Yeah.

Foundationally, it's called physiological needs. You and I need to breathe air, drink water, eat food.

Yes.

So like supermarkets will always be in business because they're providing food or some source, maybe it's a farm or whatever, but there's some source of food consumption.

We need it. Right.

So you can sell at that level. The next level is safety. We want protection from harm. We want financial security. So when— if I say, uh, there's bad guys in the world and they can harm you, but our locks prevent the bad guys from getting in, that triggers a safety thing.

Mm-hmm.

And then you'll judge, you know, my area, is it really that unsafe? I don't want to take the risk. I'll evaluate it. So instead of saying these locks are steel bolt amazing blocks— locks, um, talk about the physiological— I'm sorry, the safety need in this case. Next level up is, uh, let's see. So it starts physiological, safety, esteem. Esteem is like— oh, I'm sorry, belonging.

Belonging.

Belong, then esteem. Belonging is to be part of a community. We all need it, right? That's why we dress the same, we act the same, we like people like us. So you can sell by saying you will be part of something, or be part of our family, we're waiting for you, right? Harley-Davidson is a great example of this. They say, you know, you have a Harley, you're part of the Harley family. You got a hog, you're a outlaw warrior, right? You know, terminology and stuff comes out in the belonging. Um, unfortunately, why gangs can be so successful is many of those participants are being rejected by the family or lack thereof.

A sense of community is offered there.

You're, you're part of us.

Yeah.

And they can have horrific consequences, but at least you belong, right? So it's such a human drive, right? Esteem is recognition. So it's like, you're a big deal. And everyone needs to feel that in different ways. Some people like public displays of how important they are, AKA Mike McCallum. It's like, look at me, I'm changing the world. There's other people that want to be significant, like Amy, the Thanksgiving you have is amazing, and you brought the family together and look what you've done.

Yeah.

So esteem presents itself in different ways, but it is being a significant contributor and recognized for it. So recognition is what we need. The highest level is self-actualization. Self-actualization is living one's life's purpose. So you'll see a lot of programs around that saying, you know, find what you're really meant to do on this planet. Join our meditation and guide— guidance on finding your purpose. And that is a calling we have too. So when it comes to the customers looking for survival, it always starts foundationally, the physiological needs, and builds our way up to self-actualization. But you got to hit on one of those levels.

Love it. Brand Script. They have a free tool you can access from their website that they call the Brand Script, and this will walk you through defining your—

Story arc.

Story arc, yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, so it was— it's a free tool. Go to buildingastorybrand.com, I think, or storybrand.com. You'll find it very easily, but— and maybe we can put in the show links here. But the Brand Script, something that we've used, we go through it and There is a story. It's— if you think about any movie, could you imagine like a person starts off the movie and like it's a perfect scene and it's a happy couple and the rest of the movie you're like, oh, we're just happy. Like the most boring movie.

Right.

We need to go through these trials and tribulations. So what the Brand Script does is it walks you through Don's version or interpretation of the hero's journey. But it starts off with like, here's an objective, but here's a challenge. And then here's a way through it. But there's an obstacle and then there's a villain. Like, so they have these elements, these barriers, we need to overcome it. If you— my kids play video games, my 2 boys, my God, they're addicted. It's unbelievable. But it's so prescribed that, that to get to the next level, you have to overcome the evil boss.

Right.

And that's what we love about story is we have to defeat something in order to elevate.

Yes. Get to that happy ending.

That's what BrandScript will walk you through.

That's really cool. Yeah. Let's talk about applications in our business.

Yeah.

We're working on a website redesign, and that's a good opportunity to revisit our avatar, which is an exercise we did in our, in our last retreat.

That's right. That's right. So, you know, we talked about the community we're serving, and here's who we serve. We serve the underdog entrepreneur, the one that hasn't been funded. They don't have the adequate education or means to, to start a business in the traditional sense. At least they feel that.

Right.

argument is that's your best opportunity. We are with the scrappers, the people who are going it alone or who are using their own money to fund their business, who are working their ass off. And we're the anti-hustlers too. So there's this, this community that says it's about hustle and grind. You got to work your ass off, compromise for your family, sacrifice everything so you can have a successful business. And, uh, I don't believe that's right. I think actually that's the most harmful thing you can say.

There's no peace in that.

There's no peace in that. There is a necessity to put in extraordinary effort during a period to get started. It's the spark. But then there has to be a deliberate transition of empowerment of others and engagement of others. That message is not being told by these communities, which is fine. Good for them. But we're the other party saying there is another way, and what we argue is the better way. The— so that's who we're serving. That's our ICP, but I also dug into some of the demographics. The nice thing is when you, when you nail your demographic and psychographics, is what I meant to say, is that the customer says, you know what? I knew that, but I didn't know that that was acceptable. So I was fighting my own knowing.

Right.

Right? So inside, I knew that was the truth.

Right.

With Profit First, you know, we have, I think, 1.2 million books in circulation, but who's counting?

Not Mike every morning.

Not ego Mike. Not ego Mike. I hear consistently people say, I didn't believe— I knew I could be profitable and should be profitable, but no one was telling me I should be. I had to hustle and grind and burn through this stuff. I just knew there was a way. And then when I discovered this, I felt affirmed. So when you nail the avatar, you also affirm that they were right. You have a community for them.

And you want to affirm that avatar for each revenue stream that you have because they can be different. They could be different. Because we have some different revenue streams and we actually do have a different avatar for, you know.

Yeah, it's interesting. So we have the, the, the small bit— oops, I bonged. I don't know if they picked up on this, the, the podcast, but it's just been bonged. So we have a small business owner community. Now, uh, another avatar has presented itself is larger small businesses, 250— I don't know if that's considered small business anymore— 250,000 employees. They're reaching out saying, my employees need to be more entrepreneurial in their own life. Meaning take control and authority over their income or their savings, self-expression. So it's interesting is we're being introduced to now employees of organizations.

Cool.

And that's an avatar. And the messaging and the way we communicate and engage with those people are different.

Right.

In fact, God, I keep hitting things. And in fact, I was just working with AJ on— we're working on the new book and I said the way we're doing the introduction has to change because it speaks too much to the Entrepreneurial avatar and not the employee avatar.

Right. Right. And then we have the author avatar as well.

I mean, the author avatar, right? Pen With Purpose.

Right.

Don't write that book. Yeah. So it was interesting. Some of these avatars present themselves. So as we're working with this community, there is a faction of entrepreneurs who say, I have something important to share.

Right.

And a book is a great medium for it. So we— anyone listening in can check out Pen With Purpose. But we have, I think, 6 or 7 authors right now that we're representing.

We—

I can't officially, officially say it, but we're basically have our own imprint for entrepreneurial authors. And we're looking to build a community of authors that I personally will support in their journey by marketing, supporting them. And the expectation is those authors will support the other authors in that community. We want to build a cohort, if you will, of good authors supporting entrepreneurs in a good journey.

Love that. That's so great.

I'm pumped about it.

Looking into your avatar and really getting clear on your avatar, Kelsey noted it's a really good exercise to do as a team, and it offers to give us a chance to offer our perspective on who our avatar is. It's sort of a group thing, and we've done that repeatedly through the years.

Kelsey has great exercises in doing this in that we did a lot of paperwork. In the brainstorming and ideation we've done in the past, I'll say, hey, well, here's my idea. And I think— I know the propensity is like, well, Mike said it and he owns the business. And even if something doesn't land with me inside, I must be wrong because Mike said it.

Yeah.

Right? And that's a problem.

Right.

There's this bias that comes about. And many businesses actually are built around what's the owner's values and principles. Let me get clones of that, build a culture that's consistent with my values. And it builds this tunnel vision. And I actually used to believe that we— We need to have very clear immutable laws, values, and find people that share those. But it does cause tunnel vision. We had a meeting, I think it was out in New York, that beautiful estate had the tennis court there.

Yeah.

We rented out. And I remember I went to the group and I said, you know, one of the values that's important to me is no dicks allowed. And it was Jenna who said, that's so bro-y. And I'm like, oh my God, thank you for calling me out on that. Because to me, that's not the intention or the meaning. And she knows that.

Right, right.

But she goes, that's not my value.

Yeah.

She's like, I'm more about the no bro show. And it actually became one of our values is we don't want to be bro-y. And that's what I meant by what I was saying.

Yeah.

So what Kelsey does is she does a lot of paper-based exercises to avoid the bias of an owner or someone else that has perceived authority. So there's a balanced opinion. So we shared, everyone wrote down about the avatar thoughts, and then we had discussion around it. It's like, wow, we're discovering stuff collectively that's much greater than any individual.

Yeah. And really clarifying and helpful for, for Yeah, and you better understand what we're— what we're after.

Yeah, and I understand better too.

Yeah, right.

It's funny, just because you own a business doesn't mean you know what's going on with the business.

Right, right. And to get clear, like, for the longest time I thought our avatar was male. Our avatar is female, right?

Well, yeah, well, one, one of our—

for one of our revenue streams.

Yeah, I would say we have— our consumers are more female, but not by much anymore, about 55 to 58%.

Yeah.

But there's also— what I've realized is there's a connection with a feminine energy too. And what I mean by that is this is not a sexuality thing. I think—

This is back to the new show. This is just back to that.

Right. Yeah, I think the right person gets it right when they hear femininity. People are like, oh, I'm not, you know, I'm not a woman. Okay, no, you're not understanding this. What it is, is the femininity is an approach to collaborative values as opposed to competitive values. So a more masculine quality is, for me to be successful, you must lose.

Yeah, I gotta squash you.

Yeah. And a more female— and I'm not saying that's wrong, but that's the extreme. And the more female extreme is, For me to win, we must win. And so it's collaboration. Now, too extreme could be you just need to win and screw myself.

Yeah.

So we found that there's a, there's a delicate balance between this, that there can be collaborative wins, that everyone can be elevated. And there has to be a female energy, not just a masculine energy. And so I think it's reflective of me being a guy that I need to show that part too.

Good stuff, Mike. Very good stuff. You ready to move on to news stories?

Yeah, let's move on.

Let's do it. All right. This is a story of a squirrel named Peanut seized by New York State authorities. Mark Longo rescued an orphan squirrel, Peanut, after witnessing its mother get hit by a car. Despite an attempt to release, Peanut returned unable to survive in the wild, leading Longo to keep him as a pet and later make him a social media sensation. The This little squirrel became a social media star. Over 7 years, Peanut gained hundreds of thousands of followers across platforms like Instagram and TikTok, where fans enjoyed videos of him in various costumes and antics, including wearing a cowboy hat and bunny ears.

So let's just pause right there for a second. So first of all, I assume Mark named Peanut Peanut. It wasn't like his mom, or he came with a tag. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I will tell you something when it comes to marketing. Assigning a name is a way to humanize something. So it's not a squirrel. Hey, check out this squirrel. It's Peanut. And the second you give something a name, there's an affinity.

Right.

So there's a lesson here. If you want, whatever your products or services are, whatever you're offering, if you can give something that allows people to have a sense of ownership, assigning a name is a powerful way to do it. I've not. I've never been to a house where someone has a pet dog and say this is just the dog.

The dog.

What's your dog's name? There's no. It's just dog. It's dog. It's always a name. When someone assigns the name themselves, they have the greatest affinity. So of all the people who love Peanut, Mark, because he gave the name of the assignment, loves Peanut the most. Yeah. So little tip here is when you sell product or service, can you have a way that your customer can assign the name to theirs?

Oh yeah.

People do with cars.

Yeah.

I have a little Ford pickup truck.

Yeah.

Is there a Ranger? Is it, you know, but it's whatever the small pickup truck they have.

Yeah.

My wife called it Grey Goose.

Grey Goose.

Because it's grey.

Yeah.

And it's vodka. But now it has a name. And a lot of people, some people name their cars, not everyone, but some people name their vehicles.

We have named cars too.

You name cars too?

Our Saturn is Shelly. Shelly.

So, so it's funny, I was out with Art, my neighbor, while we were clearing the trail behind my house. He brought this big wedge or crowbar.

Okay.

And we needed it to actually crow out some trees that had fallen, some big stumps. And we called it Megan O'Malley. Yeah, I think it was Megan O'Malley. Or no, Sally O'Malley. Sally O'Malley. And we're working like, hey, where's Sally? He's like, here's Sally. And also we were falling in love with this piece of steel or iron, whatever it's made of.

Yeah.

So the lesson is allow and encourage people to give names to things. Maybe have a structure for that.

I love that.

Yeah.

All right, continuing on with the news.

There was a raid. What happened?

There were anonymous complaints, and the New York Department of Environmental Conservation raided Longo's home and seized Peanut and a raccoon that had recently joined the family.

Had a name also, I'm sure.

Oh gosh. Longo expressed his shock and dismay at such an excessive, seemingly excessive use in the animal seizure. The DEC— why are they doing this?— received complaints regarding unsafe wildlife housing and Longo's ownership of of wild animals without a license. Longo, aware of the licensing laws, stated he was in the process of getting Peanut certified as an educational animal.

So let's stop right there. So first of all, if that raccoon was named Butter, shame on him.

You're brilliant.

I wonder how many people send in complaints out of authenticity and some people out of like revenge or—

Yeah, just a nudginess.

A nudginess. Yeah. Conversely, there's people that abuse, and that's why there's these laws in place. There's people that Was that the Tiger King?

Yeah.

Did you watch that?

No, I didn't watch it, but I just heard about it.

It was horrible. But what was interesting is the Tiger King guy feels he's in the right. Everyone who does something, it's human tendency to say, I'm in the right. So I'm sure Mark Longo is like, I'm doing the right thing. This is good. Maybe he wasn't and maybe there was a greater thing. So it's just an interesting dynamic.

It is. It is.

There's a saying, the customer's always right. Yeah, in their own mind, the customer is right. And they're always right. But in our own mind, we're always right, too. It's just how the human mind works.

Exactly.

Just be aware of that.

Yeah, absolutely.

Is there any more to the story?

Not too much. He moved up to upstate New York to create an animal sanctuary, and he was working to rehabilitate— oh, Fred, not Peanut.

Not Butter.

No, not Butter. Fred the raccoon, for release back into the wild. And he's worried that Peanut has been euthanized.

So they took Peanut away.

And there's no updates on poor Peanut's status at this point.

I'm curious about the DEC story.

I know, like to get 60 Minutes does a—

It's nice to get the— because the story admittedly is biased toward Longo. He sounds like, oh, he's trying to do good things. But what the DEC says, you know, he went in and this guy is like, I don't know, just—

it's got 30 other pets that we didn't talk about.

Yeah, and there's dead animals all over. Yeah, there was a local person found hoarding and they had, uh, cats passed away in the house.

Oh yeah, that's rough.

Yeah, and the odor. Yeah, so that exists too. Yeah, I think the opportunity here is let's not have a bias. Let's just try to avoid the natural bias and, and dig in deeper. But I think there are some great marketing lessons There and opportunities to understand your customer better just from that peanut story.

Yeah. Well said.

All right, my friend. That was today's episode, episode 17 of Entrepreneurship Simplified. Thank you for joining us. Do we have a, do you know, do we have like a website or anything for Entrepreneurship Simplified?

Yes. Yeah. And it's—

Is it entrepreneurshipsimplified.com?

I think it is. Okay.

So if we do have that, tell us. And definitely go to mikemotorbike.com. That is the mecca for all. The books I wrote are up there. I used to write for the Wall Street Journal. You can get content videos. And we're redoing the entire website to be simpler, faster, better. So that's mikemotorbike.com. One ask is please do rate and review our show. And we hope to see you on next week's episode. Thanks for joining us.

Bye-bye.