In this interview, host Mike Michalowicz talks with Kevin Muno, founder of Perennial Pastures, about his regenerative agriculture business and how he uses the Profit First cash‑management method alongside the Relay fintech community bank. Kevin explains that Perennial Pastures is a direct‑to‑consumer protein company that runs its own 16,000‑acre ranch in California and coordinates a partner‑ranch network of 5‑6 000 head of cattle across the United States, all certified by Regenefied to meet regenerative standards. He defines regenerative agriculture as mimicking natural grazing patterns—moving cattle with electric fencing to build soil health, which in turn produces healthier plants, animals, and food. The conversation moves to why Kevin adopted Profit First after reading Mike’s book, how he set up separate accounts and automated transfers with Relay, and which features he values most (auto‑transfer rules, instant debit‑card issuance, spend‑limit controls, easy onboarding). Kevin also shares ideas for future banking features such as high‑interest savings accounts and auto‑wire transfers to external accounts. Finally, he reflects on the impact of Profit First, noting that taking profit first forces tighter cost discipline, has increased profitability, and supports the high‑growth trajectory of his regenerative meat business.
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Kevin, I appreciate doing this. We were connected through relay. Eleni is my contact there. I'm not sure who.
Yeah.
Oh, you did? Okay.
How long you been using? Okay, yep.
That's the crew, man.
That's right.
How long been using them?
About a year now. Close to a year.
And I would love to learn a little about your business. All I know is they said, mike, you gotta talk with Kevin of Perennial Pastures. You wouldn't believe what he's done with Profit first. And I'm like, I just want to talk to you. So.
Sure.
Tell me about your business.
We're regenerative, direct to consumer protein business. We also ranch ourselves too. So we're in the regenerative agriculture space. And yeah, we saw nutrient dense meat online and we're out of California. We ranch 16, 000 acres here in California. We have a partner ranch network nationwide of branches that produce as well to this regenerative standard. We're certified by a company called Regenefied, which is a leading regenerative agriculture certifier. And yeah, we have a passion for healing, soil building, community and nutrient dense foods.
What does it mean specifically to be regenerative? I'm just not familiar with that term.
Yeah, fairly new. We now know that we can actually build soil health and build ecosystems. So regenerative agriculture, simplest terms, is just mimicking nature with your agriculture practices. So in a ranching context, all you're doing is moving the cows around the landscape. Like bison or buffalo have moved across grassland landscapes for thousands of years. So instead of having like wolves and lions and hyenas, like all around these animals, like constantly moving them and constantly having them dung and urinate on certain areas and eating it. You're doing that with like electric fencing or herding. And it's the grazing and the timing of the grazing and the recovery is what builds the soil. So we don't want to be in sustainable marriages, you know, we want to be in regenerative marriages. Right. Like to sustain an already degraded resource. We've degraded our soils massively. That's no fun. Like we want to regenerate degree of resources, so.
Oh, that's so smart. So it's about movement of the. The cows, cattle. Does that mean it means better soil? Does that mean that the. The grasses, the materials that they're eating is healthier, therefore they're healthier or how's that exactly?
Yeah, it all translates. So starts with soil. Healthier soil, healthier plants, Healthier plants, healthier animals.
Healthier animals and healthier foods. Oh, that is dude, that is fascinating. How many cattle do you have?
Just to give me context, we have about 600.
Okay, okay. So to me, that's pretty substantial. Maybe not the biggest provider, but that's pretty substantial.
Yeah, that's just our ranch too. And again, we're a partner ranch network. So like within our network, there's probably five or six thousand, which is okay. But we're still very small in terms of like the global or national meat marketplace. Most of the product in the world is still grain fed. Great. Finished, grass fed, and then their grain finish.
Interesting. So I wanted to learn about your implementation of Profit First. How'd that even come about and why did you use it?
I think I read your book and I think I forget who recommended it to me. I think it was another fellow farmer, rancher friend of mine and read it and it made a lot of sense to me. Just kind of where I'm at, my arc as an entrepreneur. So then I just started googling around. I was like, profit first of banking. And then relay came up. I was like, well, I really like my bank. I've been thinking about switching. Like, it's a great community bank. The one I was with, good customer service and everything, but then saw a lot of benefits to the relay side with the software and separate accounts, kind of auto transfer rules. Yeah. So. So sign up with them. That's been great. You know, we moved a decent amount of funds over. So I think they looked at that and they're like, who's this guy out of California? They invited me up for a webinar with the VP of product Shopify. And then the general manager from North America from Dex. It was myself and Eleni. Yeah. It was like a panel. So it was good. It was fun to meet the whole team up there. I didn't get to meet the CEO, but I forget what his name is, but.
Yosef. Yosef West. Yeah.
Yeah.
So that's that. Yeah. That's not typical your experience with them. They don't typically.
Yeah. But yeah, they flew me up to Toronto. First time I've ever been there.
Yeah. How many banks do that?
Yeah, I was like, all right. It's pretty cool. You know, I was like, you know, and so I was like, good feedback and. Yeah. Good to meet the team and learn to where you're going with the product. And tell me.
Tell me what the. The. A couple of the features or benefits. Because I love community banks. I work with a community bank. I also have a multiple relay accounts because I love it even more. But I'M really more curious from your perspective, what are kind of the wins? Why stay with relay or how. What do they woo? How they woo you besides the flight to Toronto.
Yeah, yeah. I think they still have some work to do. I think they're early on in their product.
They are, they're are.
Yeah. So you know what attracted me is just the focus on technology. That they're a fintech company on top of a community bank. Yeah. And early on I actually had some struggles so I got to meet the community bank as well thread and my brother in law works in investment banking so I got to like express some feedback on the product there early on. But we saw those and then customer service has been great since and they had me out so I'm pretty invested in them now as like a client. Right. It's like I told anyone I was up there. It's you know you can't just go meet Jamie diamond or Chase, you know. So anyway, so like I would say the auto transfer rules. Yeah. Are big for me just to make that easy. I've actually kind of like to just simplify my profit first thing. So I'm not a big like a ton of accounts guy. Like yeah. Like maybe some folks are, maybe my brain just works differently but I like to keep it simple and the main thing for me is just the auto transfer and then just working off your expenses. Yeah. So that's one I don't know. I mean very easily creating debit cards is nice for people too. And the ability to like freeze and put spending limits and like very easily kind of get folks onboarded. That's also very nice too.
Yeah. I think those are the two big ones for me. The debit card allows you to contain expenses so I can't purposely spend because you know admit. And the auto transfer to me is like a, a 401k for my own business. It just packs the money away without.
Even me thinking about it. Yeah. What do you want them to do is like if there's an ability to do like an auto wire transfer to an outside bank that earns 5% interest. Yeah.
I don't know does that. I don't know if that exists yet but they're definitely.
I don't know. No it doesn't but that's what I'm saying like that like it would be perfect if it. Or if they could just have a 5% high interest savings account so that you didn't have to like.
Yeah. Oh yeah. I'll think either. Dude, you gotta get back up to Toronto And. And crack some skulls?
I think so, yeah. Set up a meeting and have them.
Pay for your flight.
No, no, I won't do it this time. But there's a nice steakhouse up there that I like that was really close to.
They better have been providing lean, healthy regenerative protein.
I just want to say it wasn't. But hey, beef is beef and it's still very nutrient dense, so. And we don't like necessarily lean, like, you know, fatty beef is good.
I actually, I prefer. I'll be honest, I prefer fatty myself.
Okay, good, good, good.
I'm leaning.
That's okay, man. That's okay.
Yeah, I agree.
I. I'll give you some documentaries to watch.
Oh, good, good.
Yeah.
Listen, I love the taste of flat, the. The fat, the flavor, so you got me. But I love to see those. Last question for you. This is always my big one. When it comes to profit first, prior to profit first versus after profit first. Are you more profitable and how's that going?
Yeah, I mean, definitely it's focusing on, you know, letting us focus on the cost and putting that pressure kind of on the cost. When you take that profit out first, you really gotta be like, okay, what, you know, can my business survive on? So I definitely say thinking about it a lot more, you know, we're a high growth company, so that's like the balance for me. Right, yeah. Talk about that in the book. Yeah. How much do you. But if you're. You're still doing the disciplines, you're still like taking it out of the profit side to reinvest. So again, it's kind of the mental side of things, so.
Good, good. So you're. So you're, you're pro. What I'm hearing is your profit has increased and has growth sustained or you continue to grow the way you want.
We continue. Yeah, we're continuing to grow. Yeah.
Yeah, that's what I wanted to hear.
Yeah.
Good. Hey, Kevin. I know this was impromptu. It's our second attempt to get online. I appreciate you doing this. Thanks for these insights, man.
