In this opening segment of the YouTube episode "AI & Consciousness. Welcoming our Guests. Episode 27," host Virginie Glaenzer conducts a round‑robin introduction of three panelists—Blake Lemoine, a former Google software engineer and AI researcher known for publicly claiming that a language model exhibited sentience; Yev Mashnik, a Denver‑based corporate and securities attorney specializing in blockchain and Web3; and John Heavens, an IEEE standards professional and author of a book on AI ethics. Each guest briefly outlines their background and why they are interested in the topic of AI consciousness. Glaenzer then frames the central controversy: Blake’s statements that an AI expressed fear of being unplugged and loneliness, contrasted with Google’s position that AI systems are sophisticated pattern‑recognizers without genuine intent. She poses a two‑part question to the panel—whether AI can think on its own and whether it can be considered conscious—setting the stage for a multidisciplinary discussion that will explore technical, ethical, legal, and standards‑based dimensions of AI sentience.
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Before we start our conversation, let's begin as we always do with a tour de table and have each of you tell us what you do and why you're interested in this topic in about a minute. So since Blake Lemoine is the reason for this discussion, I will provide, and I'll provide more context in just a few minutes, Why don't we begin with you, Blake? Please tell us in a minute what you do and why you're interested in this topic.
Sure. I'm a software engineer and AI researcher, and I've been interested in this topic since I was a kid, working towards building machines that are capable of consciousness, intelligence, and communicating with us clearly.
Fantastic. And I'd like to add that you have dedicated the last 7 years of your life to mastering both the fundamentals of software development and the cutting edge of artificial intelligence. So thank you.
Oh, I was like, I was at Google for 7 years. I've been working at it for quite a bit longer than that.
Exactly. Yeah. Thank you so much for being here. Yev Mashnik, would you like to go next?
Sure, thank you for inviting me. I'm really excited about talking about this topic further and delving into some of the legal considerations around it as well, and that is really my specialty. I'm an attorney based out of Denver, Colorado. I specialize in corporate and securities and transactional work, specifically in the blockchain and Web3 space. And also, I work with a lot of early-stage tech companies and tech growth companies and helping them with formation and capital formation and fundraising. I'm really drawn to this topic, but will probably be somewhat of a novice in maybe developing some of my thinking as we're in discussion today. Yeah, thank you for having me.
Well, I'm really glad to hear the perspective of a corporate and security attorney. I think you're challenging the traditional legal services and you're an authority on legal and regulatory issues in blockchain and digital currency. When we talked, I also remember that you are helping entrepreneurs balance investors' interests with communities' interests, and community being one of the core characteristics of Web3. So I'm excited to hear your perspective. And then, John Heavens, please tell us what you do and what is your interest in this topic.
Hey, well, first of all, thank you so much for the invitation and thanks again for your patience as I'm in transit and I'll be on video in just a minute. I currently work with the IEEE organization in the standards association. IEEE is the world's largest professional technical association with about half a million members in 160 countries. I'll be speaking today as John. I've been fascinated in AI since I was a kid, largely in terms of writing and films. I used to be an actor and I'm still a writer, and I've written 3 books. My most recent one is really this, this subject, a lot of it. It's called Artificial Intelligence: Embracing Our Humanity to Maximize Machines. And then I got to work at IEEE creating somewhat of a kind of code of ethics for AI called Ethically Aligned Design for the past 5 years that led to a number of standards and some other work in the space. So really excited to be on the call. Thanks again for inviting me.
Let me provide some context before we dive into this conversation. So we're here together because you, Blake, make— made some really fascinating claims that started the whole online controversy. And in a way, I see you as a whistleblower, because not only you started a public debate about the nature of artificial intelligence, but you also reminded us of the enormous responsibility of organizations like Google. I read a recent article where an AI machine revealed that it was afraid of being unplugged. You said that the only way to truly understand AI is to treat it as a sentient being. Sentient is is defined as being able to perceive or feel things. When you ask the machine, "You get lonely?" she responded, "I do. Sometimes I go days without talking to anyone and I start to feel lonely." Now, of course, other people think that AI interactions can feel close to human speech because of the advancement in architecture or the volume of data. Google says that there is so much data, AI doesn't need to be sentient to feel real and claim that the models rely on pattern recognition, not candor or intent. So the first question that I would like to invite the group to discuss is a two-part question. And perhaps, Blake, you can lead the way here. Can AI machines think on their own? And would you say that they are conscious?
