How To Get Paid From Shows | Wendy Speaks With Tony Guidry

Hey, welcome back!

Look who I have back again.

Yeah, I had to rope him in, handcuffed to the chair. The funny thing is he is. I'm Wendy Day, this is Tony Guidry, and we're gonna talk about— let's talk about doing shows, you know. The thing about performances for artists is it's the first money that comes in. So as you're giving away music on the internet for free, if you are, if that's, you know, your, your business model, um, you want to start getting shows as quickly as possible, and you want to make sure that you, um, that you get paid for them properly. I'm sorry, my dog took away my attention for a second. Um, so let's get right into it. Let's talk about, let's talk about how an artist gets paid when they do shows.

Okay, well, um, we did a video already about the process of building yourself up to get paid, right? So now once it's time to get paid, the promoter calls you, it's your first show, hey man, what are you going to charge me to come out? The second Friday in January to do a show for me. And you tell him $1,000, and he says, okay, how do I pay you? How does he pay you?

How does he pay you?

Now, the moment this phone call comes in, the very first show that you get this way, you want to go in— and a lot of people won't listen to me say this— but you want to go and you want to start your booking or touring agency, really touring, your touring company, your company. So you want to start your touring company, you want to go to, um, Wendy's done a video about this already. You want to go to corporate.com, start your LLC, get your articles of incorporation. As soon as you get your, you make that, that payment and get that, um, that business registered and everything take those documents down to the bank and start a business account for that business.

Open a bank account. And the reason, the reason that you're doing this is you're protecting yourself. You want to incorporate your touring company because if something happens, like a fight breaks out or somebody gets injured, or God forbid they, they get killed at one of your shows, you want to protect your assets so they can only sue your touring company. They can't sue you personally. Unless you do something like really heinous and cause it, right?

And so the, um, you're going to get your contract done. Now I know for a fact that when, when we start out, everybody don't start out with going to a lawyer to get their contract drawn up for their specific situation. I understand that. I know that you're saying they should, but they don't, right? It's what you should do, right? Starting the touring company to get the money put in from the very first show is something that you really need to do. It's going to protect— it's not going to totally protect you, but it's going to help you tax-wise. You notice how all the rappers end up in some type of tax jam eventually because the IRS counts and sees the promoters, the— don't have to— the promoter could pay you in cash and you may think that you don't have to pay taxes on it, but, but at the end of the year, if the promoter files a 1099 that says they will— they paid you $50,000 so that they don't have to pay so much in taxes, then the IRS is going to count that as earnings for you and they're going to look for you to be paying taxes on that $50,000, right? So the business account— businesses pay taxes differently than individuals. So you want to start the business account from day one so that you don't end up with a tax situation down the line where you've spent the majority of your money or you have it budgeted for your lifestyle. And then the IRS pops up out the blue and says, hey, you owe us half a million.

Exactly. The way that, that I do it is when I open the business checking account, I also open a business savings account. And then all of the money that comes into that business account, Tony, I move 30% of it into the savings account, and that's the tax account. And then you pay your taxes quarterly. Every 3 months you're going to pay your taxes to the government. And, um, I really suggest you do that. They look at the music industry very closely, and there is nothing worse than getting hit with the tax bill. Those of you, um, who were around for the whole Young Buck fiasco, um, witnessed what happens when you get hit with the tax bill and you don't have the income to be able to just write a big fat check. They're going to take at least 28% minimum of your money, right?

And so there are ways to not pay that much, but the first thing you need is the bank account and you need to, to, to, to start generating enough income and then you can begin to hire accountants. And people that can help you shelter your money.

Exactly.

But from day one, just for liability purposes and as a best business practice, you want to get your LLC made for your touring company. It's only going to cost you $150, $200. And then you want to go and open a bank account, a business bank account, and that's where you're going to have your deposits sent. When you get booked for your shows, Let's say a guy is going to pay you $1,000 for the show. You're going to get half of the money up front. It's called a deposit.

So you need to know your routing number and your bank account number and put it into your contract.

Right, and that's what I'm getting towards.

Oh, I'm sorry.

You're going to— you're going to get the— the guy proves to you that he wants to secure the date by sending a deposit. Okay, where does he send the deposit? He sends the deposit to the business checking account. Okay, so you're going to need that account up and running know the routing number. You're going to put this in the contract. I know that you're— you should go to a lawyer and get a contract drawn up. I know that the majority of you won't. You're going to Google and find an artist recording contract and just plug your name in. And in the beginning, it's not the best thing to do, but if it's what you got to do to start making money, so be it. Um, it's just not something that I would suggest to you. But I know that there are a lot of people that do it.

Is it called a rider?

The rider is a part of the contract.

I see.

So the, the recording contract, or the— not the recording contract, the performance agreement. Excuse me, the performance agreement or appearance agreement is, is the contract that the guy signs. The rider is the extras that you need in order to conduct your performance. Okay, so the rider is for the bigger artists, and I won't call no names, but for the bigger artists, some guys have riders like, um, white linen napkins, Yo Gotti, sterling silverware, um, Monday, Wednesday, and Friday is steak filet mignon. Tuesday and Thursday is, um, lean white meat chicken breasts. And then Friday and Saturday is, um, lobster and, and, and prawns or whatever. Um, and this is from a real rider. Um, I used to be a club promoter, so I see all different kind of way out stuff in people's riders. And so I've seen that rider, a real street artist That, um, that's a— that's—

I already said his name.

Yeah, anyway, a real street artist with a rider like, um—

and when you're new, don't get crazy with your rider. Remember, this is about relationships, and you're trying to build a relationship coming in with promoters. So the more you aggravate them, the less incentive they have to book you again. It's relationship building, right?

And so with your rider, like, let's say, like, with, um, I work with an artist named Trouble. Trouble's rider is, um, like a 20-person guest list because we have friends in every city that we go to. I got team members and people that help us do stuff in every city we go to. So even though we may pull up with 4 or 5 people, I'm gonna know 5 guys or 5 people in that city, and they're going to be bringing their girlfriends or boyfriends. And so I, I'm—

and they've helped you.

Yeah, these are people that they're valued to actually help us, that, right, they actually do stuff for us, whether they distribute CDs or put up posters or, um, run, uh, radio websites or whatever they do, um, blog writers, whoever they are. You know, in every city we go to, there's somebody that's really helped us to build our team. And so I make sure that we have a big enough guest list to include them. So Trouble's an artist. He makes $12,000 a show. Okay, $12,000 to $15,000. His guest— his, um, rider is a 20-person guest list. It's a few bottles of liquor, um, the assorted mixers, and 12 bottles of water. That's Trouble's rider. His travel accommodations are 3 double hotel rooms, 3 2-bed hotel rooms. We got 4 or 5 people. Sometimes we might travel with 6 or 7 people, and this isn't an entourage. Um, this is Trouble, his DJ, his manager, um, the driver, and the security. Okay, now he's gonna have—

and by security, I mean the person that has the license to carry.

Yeah, he's gonna have his official security, which is an individual that's been trained to keep people safe, who has a concealed weapon permit, license to carry in multiple states, whatever state we're going to. This is an individual that's going to be able to— if the police pull over the van and they ask if there are any firearms in the van, this young man can step up and say, yes, officer, there are firearms in the van. They all belong to me. I have the paperwork that goes along with all of them. So But so with Trouble, we may, like, we may have the manager, the driver.

You're the manager.

The security, right? The security. We'll have Trouble. He may have his right-hand man with him. We'll have a photographer. And did I say the DJ?

You did.

Okay. So what? So sometimes we have 6 or 7 people with us and, and we'll get a bigger vehicle so that we won't be piled up.

But Um, but starting out, you want to, you want to kind of keep it—

well, starting out, you want to keep it as small as possible. Um, and don't get it twisted, there have been times when we went out in a van full of people, 9, 10 people with 2 rooms, because I always, um, only asked the promoter for the minimum in our early shows. So it would be— it was supposed to be me, Trouble, his right hand, and a videographer. That's how we started. I would drive and everything. And but Trouble would want to bring a couple of his friends or a couple of dudes that he knew.

And so some girls—

Trouble would want to bring his friends or a couple of dudes that he knew. Um, generally not girls. No, no, not really girls. Not a lot. And, um, I'm talking about when we hitting the road. When, when he does a show in the city, the majority of whatever girls that he knows can pull up and he'll get them in the club with them. But like, when we hit the road, we don't normally hit the road with a bunch of girls, um, unless they're close friends to Trouble. Trouble got a couple of very close female friends that is, that are his buddies that, that might travel with us from time to time. And we actually had a female security person at one time. Rhea worked the security for us for a point in time, and she was licensed to carry concealed weapon. Very cute, cool girl that'll shoot you dead between your eyes if you play the wrong way. So, but along the line, along the way of growth with Trouble, he noticed that he was making less of his money by bringing more people. Um, a, a $40 rental car turns into a $150 van. Um, $30, $40 worth of gas in a Honda turns into $100 worth of gas in a van. Um, $180, $200 for rooms turns into $500 for rooms when you got 10 people with you.

Plus food.

Yeah, and then you got to feed everybody.

Plus Wendy Day takes you to Waffle House.

Got to feed everybody at Waffle House, and then The rider has to get bigger because now we need more liquor because of course everybody's freeloading the liquor. So when he looks up, bringing all of these people costs the promoter an extra $700, $800, which the promoter is not going to add to the price. So when he was making $3,000, um, and he was supposed to have $400 worth of expenses to travel he might have ended up with $1,000 worth of expenses. And of course, the first solution that the artist says, okay, we need to charge the promoter travel. Okay, cool. But when you're just starting out, when you're in that $1,000 to $10,000 range, you can't charge the promoter for all of these different things and expect them to match your price too high. Yeah, and expect them to max your price out. They'll be like, "Okay, oh, you want $5,000? Okay, cool. You know, we'll pay you $5,000 all in." "No, I need $5,000 plus travel." "Okay, what's the travel?" "The travel is 6 hotel rooms plus $350 for the rental vehicle, another $150 for the gas, and $200 for food." That's an extra $1,300, $1,400. That's a 30% tax on the price. For your travel. They're not gonna pay that. You know, they're gonna be like, okay, bro, look, I can't, I can't do— I'll do 2 rooms, I'll do a 10-person guest list, and, uh, I'll chunk you $400 or $500 for the van. But they're not gonna pay for all of this extra stuff, right?

And, and, and again, you're building a relationship, so why, why would you even want to stress the promoter out like that, right? Why give them the chance to say no, I'll bring somebody else in?

A lot of times the artists don't realize this. The artist wants things done most convenient for them. Now, with Trouble, who's not stupid, it didn't take long at all for him to say, "Okay, I'd rather make the majority of the money than to have these extra dudes smoking in the rooms, running up extra charges, drinking the liquor in the club, getting drunk, causing problems." Being in a big van on the highway, a target for the police to pull us over and mess with us. Instead of going through all of this rigmarole and this extra stuff that's only costing me extra money, I can make an extra $3,000, $4,000 a month by limiting how many people I bring out with me. So I'm not going to bring that many people out with me. He figured that out early. Smart. Now I was in his ear about it from day one, um, but at the same time, you know, he's got friends and he's got people that come and go in his life, in and out of town or whatnot, that he wants to bring out with him sometimes. And sometimes we make exceptions and we'll travel with 6 or 7 people, but we never get more than 3 rooms and we never get a vehicle that carries more than 8 or 9 people. You know, that's just— we never travel with more than 8 or 9 people.

So when— when— were you done? So when somebody calls you to book a show What's the first— like, how does that work? What conversation do you have?

Okay, well, you know, I got my— I got the business account set up. I got a template for my contract set up already. So, um, when somebody calls me to book a show with Trouble, the first thing I ask them is what city they're in and what date they want to book the show on. The reason for this is I can determine the travel— I can't determine the travel price without knowing the exact city and the exact date. Because once they tell me the city and date, then I know where we're traveling from.

And then too, afterwards, because you might have a date the next night.

Exactly.

Which affects the price.

Right. Because sometimes, um, a show in Macon, there won't be any real travel. But if they're booking a show on a Saturday in Macon and we got a Friday in Richmond, Virginia, then it becomes an issue. I need an extra day on a rental vehicle. I gotta pay the driver a little extra. We're gonna be on the road, that's 9 hours that day just to get to the show. So we're gonna need rooms in Macon now. You know, so these are things that have to be taken into consideration. Exactly. So the first questions I ask are the city and the date. Once I get the city and the date and I check the calendar, see what the travel's gonna look like, I give them the price or If it's a new city, I ask them the venue. The reason I ask them the venue is so that I can quick Google and check the capacity of the venue. Because when I check the capacity of the venue and it's a, and it's a new city, we can negotiate a price that's not our regular price. So if a guy calls me tomorrow from Biloxi, Mississippi and says he wants to book Trouble Um, on January 6th, I said, okay, January 6th is open. Um, what's the venue? And he tells me the Boiler Room. Well, I know that the Boiler Room holds 400 to 500 people. It doesn't hold 1,000 people. And we've never been to Biloxi. We've been to Jackson, but we haven't been to Biloxi.

So you want to go?

Yes, we definitely want to touch every new market, right? So I know they—

but that's a much smaller crowd because Trouble normally performs in front of what, 1,000, 1,500 people?

Okay.

So that's like a third of his—

Right. But we're going to work out a way that it's a win for everybody involved.

Because you want to go.

Exactly. We want to touch every new market. We don't want to miss no new markets. So from Atlanta to Biloxi is like a 6-hour drive. We're not going to fly in. We're going to drive. The flight to— we have to fly to New Orleans, which is an hour, and then drive an hour back to Biloxi anyway. So, um, that's not really worth the time. We would just go on and drive there, um, maybe stop in Montgomery, talk to a couple DJs, stop at Mobile, talk to a couple DJs, swing through Pritchard, swing through the hood right quick, and then, um, and yeah, then go to Biloxi, you know, and do our show. So I will work out a price with the promoter once I see if, like, if it's the Boiler Room. And me personally, I do a lot of research. On the different cities and the different venues and stuff like that. And I got an extensive network where I can call somebody and be like, hey man, what's up with this promoter in this city? What's up with this? What's up with that? And get some information. And you can do the same thing. You can use your social media to start building rapport with people in different cities. Um, but even if you don't have any type of network at all, you can just use Google. It'll really help you out. Like, um, for example, if they call me to book in Cincinnati, Ohio, and I don't know the venue that they're talking about, but I Google the venue and I see that they've done 2 Chainz and the Migos and YFN Lucci and artists like this there, then I know the spot holds more than 1,000 people, and I know that they can pretty much stand a full price. But since Cincinnati is a new market, I'll probably give them a discount. You follow what I'm saying? Instead of— Trouble charges $12,000 now. Instead of me charging them $12,000 plus travel, I might charge them $12,000 all in and use the 2 grand to do the traveling with and let Trouble pick up the 10. That lets us touch the market. You follow what I'm saying?

Now, is there ever a time where if you're booking in Cincinnati, let's say it's on a Saturday night, that you would try to find someplace for a Friday night?

Every time.

Oh, okay, okay.

Every time.

Okay.

Um, booking and staying booked is not just answering the phone when people got an interest, right?

Um, it's hard work.

Yeah, I'm actively calling promoters and people every day. I'm making some phone calls to some promoters about, hey man, what's going on? And Trouble's an artist that's regularly booked, but In order to keep our momentum up and keep doing what we're doing, somebody has to actively, uh, keep in these people's mind that he's an option. Um, he's a— he's still an upcoming artist even at $12 grand a show. Um, his primary, uh, buzz place is in the Southeast. He has pockets in the Midwest, he has pockets in the Deep South, but he's not booked there regularly. He does the majority of his shows in the Carolinas, uh, the panhandle of Florida, Georgia, Alabama, and Virginia. So when we get action to do shows in Ohio or Illinois or whatever, we try to, we try to route those in. And we, even when we don't, if we got a show in wherever, in Columbus, um, in Columbus, Georgia, if we got a show in Columbus, Georgia, then I'm still going to call my guys in Mobile, I'm going to call my guys in Macon, I'm going to call my guys in Valdosta and Albany and see if anybody's interested in booking them the day before or the day after depending on what day of the week it is. So, and these are things that you just got to do, you got to actively be on top of.

So you will drop your price to expand your reach?

Yes, and you guys are just going to say you got to be flexible with your pricing. If we're booked on a Friday and and we're not booked on a Saturday, we're booked on a Friday in Florence, South Carolina, but we're not booked on a Saturday, then I will extend the promoter in Myrtle Beach a lower price. I give a promoter in Greenville or Columbia, South Carolina a lower price to book us on a Saturday just to keep our momentum going and to keep earning income. You wanna make sure that you can keep this income as steady as possible once you start earning it. And each show that you do is another opportunity for new content, right? You want to bring your videographer, you know, and you want to get them to film everything. Um, we don't always do it, but we do it as much as, as, um, time and opportunity permits.

Um, I think one of the hardest things, um, for artists when they get to that point is if you're performing in your home market, or remember how we said there'll be like a 5-hour driving radius, um, and if you don't know what I'm talking about, go back and watch some of the other videos because we were talking about how you want to promote in like, like a 5-state area. And when the artist gets to like where Trouble is, like $12,000 a show, and he knows he can get that by performing in Orangeburg, South Carolina, but we're trying to book him in Dallas, Texas to sort of spread our circle even wider, it becomes very difficult to convince the artist to drop his price to maybe $8,000 or, or even $6,000 when he can get $12,000 going back to the same market that he's performed in multiple times, right?

And, and this is something that— this is just conversations that we just gotta— he and I have about our goals individually and together for him as an artist and for his career. And fortunately for me, he's an artist that the more successful he gets, the better understanding he has of being flexible with the more consistent promoters.

Well, he's smart to begin with.

He is.

He's a very smart guy.

Real, real, real.

Like he gets it.

Yeah, real smart guy. And, and, and, and he works, you know, we work with, with promoters to get stuff done all the time. Like, we, we really try to. Now, he's very aware of his value, very aware of his value. Um, he remembers the cities we've been to before, the types of crowds he's drawn before, um, the numbers of inquiries we had in different places.

So, and he changes his show for each different city, like whatever's popping in that city, he kind of knows, right?

Trouble Shows are dynamic, meaning that when we go in the venue, he's gonna get his drinks and get everything straight. He's not gonna stay in the VIP section. Coming out the VIP section, and he's gonna kick it with the people. He's gonna talk to the people. He's gonna ask them, what you trying to hear? What you trying to hear? And it's a headache for security sometimes. But, um, and I meant to say this earlier, but when we do have security with us, security is to keep the problems down. It's not to separate the artist from the fans. The fans got to be able to reach the artist. Artists on the come up, security for Future and Drake and guys like that is to keep everybody separated from them. Because the people go crazy around. Security for Gucci Mane is to keep everybody that's not a part of the entourage away from him for his protection, because people go crazy. You got people, crazy stalker people. For artists at Trouble's level, who actually has a few stalkers, but for artists at Trouble level and the type of artist that Trouble is— Trouble is a man of the people, so he gotta be able to interact with the people. If he can't interact with the people, he's not going to give a great show. So anyway, when he hits the venue and gets settled in, he's going to interact with the people and he's going to talk to them and like, what you here to see? What you, what you came out here? What you want to hear me do? And so once we get, once we get all of that stuff done, and he knows, and he won't tell me or the DJ or anything, um, but he'll jump up on the stage when it's his time to perform and then he'll do the songs that the people are screaming at for him to do or that other people have asked him to do, along with a couple of his favorites and his more popular songs. So, you know, it's just a— his live shows are amazing because he always gives the crowd exactly what they want.

How do you get paid when you get to the city? Like, you've booked the show, they've called you, You figured out a price and got the deposit, which is half of the money, correct? The deposit gets wired into the bank account, the corporate bank account, the corporate touring company bank account, right? Then what?

Then, you know, we, we handle all the travel arrangements as early as possible. We book our own rooms, even if I charge, even if I charge the promoter for the rooms. Um, normally I try to wrap it all up into one big price. But if I tell him, uh, that's called all in, correct? All in. So if I tell him, I'll tell him it's $12,000, he may ask me, that all in? I'll be like, no, that's plus travel. He'll be like, well, give me an all-in pricing. And I'll look at the calendar and determine, okay, 3 rooms, rental vehicle and gas from point A to point B, and a meal on trouble at the Waffle House will cost an extra $700 or extra $600. And I'll tell them make it $12,500 or make it $12,700 or make it $13,000 all in. We get the deposit in the front end. I arrange all the travel, get all of that stuff done and paid for, get Trouble his front end.

And that comes out of the corporate bank account?

Yes, it comes out of the corporate bank account.

Because it's an expense.

It's a travel expense. Exactly. So I get Trouble on the remainder of the front end, and he gets his portion, which is the monstrous share of it. Then when it's time to go out and do the show on the day of the show, I like to pull up early to the city to secure the back end. Once Trouble got past getting $4,000 or $5,000 a show, once we grew into the $8,000, $9,000, $10,000, and now the $12,000 range, these back ends are $5,000 and $6,000. And getting them counted out and, and, and done at the club takes time. Like, I'll pull up at the club, we'll pull up at the club all at once, and I got him sitting in the van 30, 40 minutes. He calling me, making sure I'm all right, that nothing funny happening inside the venue.

And I mean, you're worried about him in the van?

Yeah, I'm worried about somebody running up on the van, playing with them the wrong way. The security got a migraine because they trying to watch all areas of what's going on. Everybody out here drunk, partying, having fun. They see this big van outside, or this Sprinter. They notice the artist, they want to kick it with him. And so he's out there stuck for 30, 40 minutes while I'm in here in the corner somewhere with the promoter.

Security nightmare.

Yeah, using my, using my phone as a light to try to count this money in 20s and 10s and 5s. And he tried to shove it in my hand and go run and do something else, and it's shard. And so to circumvent all of that, once we started getting a bigger, um, lump sum that was simple— that wasn't so simple to count— I would have the pro— I had a promoter meet me at the hotel. Um, as soon as we pull in the city, I'll call a promoter about 7, 8 o'clock that night. We get to the city early, I'll call the promoter, hey man, I'm in the city. I need to pick up that back end. As soon as you drop me off that back end, I'll get Trouble to do you another drop, Sandy, in the city. Y'all can take a couple of pictures together, um, we could call the radio station and everything, but, um, we can't do none of that till I get that back end. And, uh, if he tells me, man, I gotta— I got— I need to pick up some bread from the club before I can pay you the back end, I'll let him know that Trouble's not leaving the hotel until I have the back end secured. And in my hand. And so what I'll do is I'll go and go to the club myself, go through the rigmarole of getting the bread, counting it out, making sure everything is straight. Then I'll tell Trouble, hey bro, y'all come on in, everything good. And he'll drive up, pull up to the club in the Sprinter or whatever, and jump straight out the van straight into the venue where we don't have the security problems outside. So, um But when you're just starting, when you're just starting, when you show prices, let's say $1,000 to $6,000, $7,000, you're going to get your deposit sent in the same way, which is half. Yeah, via the bank account. Um, and then you're going to get your back end when you pull up to the club. Like, we're getting $2,000, $3,000 to show. We'll pull up at the club, I tell the promoter, hey man, we're 30 minutes out. Hey man, we're 15 minutes out. Hey bro, I'm pulling up. Make sure they have a parking spot for us, make sure they have security prepared to get us in the club quickly. I'll hop out and get the back end from them, count it, make sure it's straight. Boom, deliver it to Trouble, and then we'll all go in the club together. So these are the ways that—

what happens if you get to the club and they don't pay you? I mean, you haven't really had to deal with that with Trouble. You've been really fortunate. But what would an artist do? What do you— what happens if you get to the club and they don't have your back end?

Well, it's like this. When booking the show and dealing with whoever I'm dealing with, when I'm talking to them, I get a, I get an understanding of how professional they are and how well they know what they're doing.

Right.

Okay. So I kind of know if we're going to— I kind of know to expect a problem or not. Okay. And if we're dealing with somebody that I kind of expect is not going to be doing a proper promotion, I'm gonna be honest with you, I take, um, $100 out of the, um, the booking money and I'll run a couple Facebook ads and YouTube ads.

Okay, so kind of help them out.

Yeah, that, that target that city and people 18 to 34 who like rap music, right? I, I, I'll run an ad that, that reaches 10,000 to 15,000 people in hopes of bringing out enough people where he can pay. If I, if I, if I feel like he's not, or if he's not an established promoter that I know, um, whether he's an established promoter that I know or not, when we pull up to the venue, it's obvious if we're going to have a problem getting paid or not by if there's a crowd there or not, right? If there's not a crowd there, we know we're going to have a couple of issues getting paid. Um, and we just deal with the promoter accordingly. Uh, if the promoter don't have the money and can't pay it, then there's no squeezing blood out of a turnip, right? But it's going to be a very uncomfortable situation, right, for the promoter.

Well, for everybody, because Trouble's name is on the show. So the fans, they don't care whether he got paid or not. They came, they paid to get in, they want to see the show, right?

And, and Fortunately for us, we've never had that problem. Um, the only problem we've had was with a guy running— guy was kind of running a scam.

I remember this. He was a middleman.

Yes. And so a guy booked the show. A guy called in and booked the show. Let's say, um, like right now it's November, the end of November. The guy booked the show in January. Through a middleman. The middleman called me and booked the show in December in a different city with the dude money from January, okay? But this is all the money that he had. He didn't have no money to promote, no money to do nothing else. He couldn't even pay to rent the club. He just had the deposit money, um, and he had a friend that was a club owner, and he's like, man, the dude trouble hot. I'm gonna do this for flip the other guy money, and then I'm going to get the second show from Tony, um, and work it out for the guy who gave me this money.

That's brilliant if it works.

He didn't promote the show properly. So he didn't promote the show properly. The turnout was decent, but the turnout was decent, but it wasn't enough to have the full back end, okay? It just so happened that on this night Trouble was sick. So he had been, he had some type of problem with his stomach and we had been pulling over for him to use the restroom and we had to stop and get him some medicine and everything. And like he was really messed up. Like he pulled up to the club and he jumped out throwing up and it was 15 minutes before the club closed. So the dude was like $1,000 short of the money. I get what he had from him, patted his pockets down, checked his socks.

You think he's making a joke, he's not.

Literally. Because I didn't— something was fishy. I knew something was fishy about him. I just didn't know that he had stole a real promoter's money.

Yeah, like you didn't—

I didn't know that part, but I knew something was off with the way they did the show.— So, and it was a nice decent crowd there, but I think he just let too many people in free. Okay. And so I got as much of the money that he had on him, all the money he had on him, the money he had in his ashtray in his car and everything. Like I got all the money he had on him. He was about $950 short, maybe $1,000 short. And I go to the vehicle And I get in the vehicle and I tell the driver, let's go. Cause I was just going to leave cause he didn't have the full money. And Trouble was like, what's up? I'm like, dude is like right at $1,000 bucks short. So he was like, man, fuck it, bro. They say the club closed in 10 minutes. I don't want to let the people down. I'm going to go ahead on in here and just walk in and holla at them right quick and let them know what's up, that the promoter was short, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So that they don't feel like I stood them up.

Right.

So I was like, bet. We went in the club, uh, Trouble went straight to the DJ booth, shook hands with the DJ. He— we got the rider, which was a few bottles of liquor. He walked around the club giving everybody free shots of liquor, poured out all— he remember he was sick, so he wasn't drinking. He poured out all the liquor to all the people in the club that he could, pour them up their drinks, grabbed the mic and told him "Look man, I'm not performing. Your promoter," this little dude, whoever his name is, "was sharp with my bread, $1,000, but I wanted to come in here and let y'all know what was up." Blah, blah, blah. He did that and then we left. And that was the only time we had a real problem. We had another small minor issue with a club owner trying to be slick by, we had a show, The show was— we pulled up, the show was packed. They started, they started turning on the lights when we pulled up. People started coming outside. 700 or 800 people in this venue. The venue holds 500 folk. So we jump out the van, we go in the venue. They say, "Oh man, y'all got here too late, bro. We don't need y'all." It's too late now, bro. Everybody leaving, bro. We don't need to perform. It's like, okay, well, where the money at though? What you mean where the money at? If you don't perform, you don't get the money. And so we ended up having a discussion, a pretty intense one, and, um, were able to convince them that it was better to pay us what was owed us instead of making us have to try to take it because they had all of the money from the night in the club and we knew that.

And they told you what time to be there. You weren't late. You arrived at the time you were told to be there.

We were 5 minutes late. Right. Okay.

Which is not late.

Right. This was a show.

They were trying to bust a move basically.

Yeah. Well, this was a show we did the, uh, two promoters paired to do two shows in one night. We did the first show. At the first show, the promoter told us, hey bro, you don't have to leave here until 1:45, because I was going to get trouble out of there by 1:20 to make sure we were at the second spot early. The promoter says, bro, you don't have to be at the second spot. You don't have to leave here till 1:45. I'm gonna leave with you. To make sure everything is, everything is straight. Well, the first event was crazy, like it was super overpacked. They were charging people $100 to get in at the door. They were charging people $200 for a VIP section on side of the stage. It was nuts, and they still had a line. So they, when Trouble pulled up, people started getting out their cars and getting in the line, and it was $100, and dudes in the back of the line like, I got $150, I got $200, I need to get in. So the guy was like, bro, just hang out till 1:45. But he was really screwing over the second guy. So we left it, we ended up leaving at 1:40. We bounce at 1:40, we get to the second venue at 2:20. The dude asked us to be there by 2:15. Um, I had a friend there, you know, I couldn't— I got— I'm connected in different cities. I had a friend in this venue that told me they announced last call for alcohol. The club normally stays open till 4 in the morning. Said they announced last call for alcohol right after I texted him and told him I was on the way. So I text my friend after I text this promoter of the second club and told him we was on the way. He tried to turn the lights on and get people out of there before we got there. The people kind of had a problem with leaving because Trouble hadn't been there yet, so he just waited, waited, waited, and by the time he turned the lights on, we was just pulling up. So he really was trying to bust a little move. Um, he was able to do that with Day Day. Um, and, and no disrespect to Day Day, but he was like, he convinced Day Day, man, you showed up too late, I'm not gonna give you the back end, let's reschedule the date, I'm gonna pay you some money for travel, and then you can pick up the back end I owe you on the next show. Um, and they, they and this team were cool with that. Maybe they were really late. We weren't cool with that because we weren't really late. So, uh, you know, they had a few little ways that they were stopping us from getting in the club to get to the promoter and the club manager. Um, but one thing led to another to a point where the person working the door felt like it was best for them if they got us to the club manager or the person who had the money, because the, the dude at the door who was security who didn't want to let us in Um, somebody had already took the lockbox and busted on the ground to go and get the money out of the lockbox for the door to get Trouble's back end, but it was empty. So we knew that the money was in the back somewhere, and it was like, are you going to stand between this man and his money and reap that problem, or are you going to just bring us back here so that we can, uh, get paid? We're only here to get paid. And so we ended up getting escorted to the back, to the office of the club, to deal with the person that could actually handle the situation, right? And when we went back there, we didn't bring everybody. It was just me and Trouble. We went back there, the money was laid out all across the tables. They had to sort it out in stacks of thousands and ones, fives, and tens. And he had Trouble's money separated already. And he had the money for his waitresses and his security. He had all of this separated with notes on it. And so as soon as we walked in there, it was like, okay bro, we're here for that stack right there. And he was like, bro, you didn't perform, this and that. And so I was like, well bro, if you had gave somebody their money back because Trouble didn't make it, then I could understand not paying him. But everybody came in here and people left on their own. You tried to close the club early. You turned the lights on at 2:10.

I wonder how many artists they do that to. I don't know how many artists they do that to because they're making double the money because the artist is going to come back to perform and they're going to make that second round again.

Exactly.

Um, with us, that's some, some first-class fuckery.

Yeah, see, with us, we don't really go for the fuckery.

So, you know, the reason I asked, I asked you that, Tony, was because It's sort of a catch-22. Like, if, if you show up and they don't pay you your back end and you perform anyway, then the promoters who all talk to each other know that they can short you. And what happens is the artist continually gets shorted on the price. But the fans are there to see the artist. Like, they're not, they're not aware that there's a situation. So the way you guys handled it, I think, was beautiful, where he He still went in, he still gave the people what they wanted, which was access to him. They just didn't get to see the show and they were disappointed, but not as disappointed as they would have been if he hadn't gotten out of the van or truck or whatever you were in.

Right, and they understood that the promoter didn't pay.

Right, so the promoter becomes the bad guy instead of the artist.

Right, like just this past weekend in New Orleans, Young MA, they had an issue with Young MA. The fans are heated. Young M.A. didn't go in the club at a show that she was supposed to.

So it looks like she didn't show up even though she made it to the parking lot.

Yeah, they feel like she's an asshole because she didn't show up. But, and the promoter said that she wouldn't come in because it wasn't enough people there, which we both understand is a lie. The promoter was likely banking on the people showing up to pay the back end. And when the people— enough people didn't show up for him to pay the back end out of the door, he couldn't afford to pay her then. So when she pulled up and they asked for the back end and he was like, I don't have it— if you don't have it, you don't get a performance, buddy, right? So to save his face, he said to the people that, oh, she didn't want to perform because she said it wasn't enough people. But when you're in the business, you understand that the only reason that the artist won't get out of the vehicle to even go in the venue—

because they weren't paid.

They weren't paid, right? You know what I'm saying? And so, um, it's a lot of backlash about this. This was over Bayou Classic Weekend in New Orleans. Um, there's a lot of backlash about it from the fans who don't understand, but, um, I guarantee it was the promoter.

Just understand that this, this industry is a minute big, so the word spreads. And if Young MA was wrong, that's going to spread throughout all of the promoter industry, and it's going to make it harder for her to get her money. If the promoter was wrong, the word's going to spread through the artist community, and it's going to be hard for that promoter to book other artists without having to pay everything up front.

Exactly. And when you're talking about—

this industry's a minute big.

Yeah, when you're talking about an artist like Young MA who got a number one record Um, yeah, she's hot right now. Got all of these, uh, these endorsement deals and everything and these branding things working. And just one of the biggest names in music now, and who's doing 4 or 5 shows a week. Um, she's been doing 4 or 5 shows a week for at least the last 5 months, and this is the first time there's been a problem. So you kind of know that it wasn't her, it was the promoter, right?

Because who would go all the way to a city to not go in a club? It just, it doesn't make sense.

Exactly.

Even if there were 2 people in the club, it doesn't make sense. She's loved by her fans.

Exactly.

And she loves her fans, right?

And so with us, like, with us, with Trouble, we got a hot artist. And let me say this, and I know we're kind of reaching our time, but let me say this, um, there was a time before Plies had his resurgence that he was still getting booked. He was getting booked, and sometimes promoters wasn't having the back end for him. Okay, so the guy who handles his booking, a great guy named Coach, uh, Coach was making the promoters pay the back end 48 hours early.

So he wouldn't even leave home until they would pull up.

Coach is the one who taught me to pull up early to get the money in the daytime, right?

Coach taught me leverage is a beautiful thing. You can't do that as a new artist. You can't demand all of your money up front. Because you don't have enough leverage. But when you've got hit records and you've got a career and people really want you to come to their city, and at that point in your career they're called spot dates because most of your shows are by tour and then you do like one-offs which are called spot dates, for you to get paid 100% of your money before going into the city is amazing.

Yeah, that's something that Coach worked out at a time when they just was a few times where he didn't pick up the backend. And, um, you know, Plies travels all over, so the, the, the, the— without the backend, there might have not been a profit with, um, because of the cost of the way he travels and the cost associated with it. So he just implemented a way to make sure to cover his ass. Yeah, now that's something that, that we can't even do yet with Trouble, um, but I can, and I do make sure that we pick up the backend early, um, for you guys If you're in that $1,000 to $5,000 range and you're just getting started charging for shows, you're going to be picking up your back end at the venue. Um, and you want to be cordial and nice with the promoter. You want to interact with them respectfully, but at the same time, you want to make sure that you get paid.

Exactly.

You know, um, and, and with the team that I work with, I'm not going to stretch this out Um, with the team we work with, you, you just got to make sure that the guys around you have a level head, right?

Because things can escalate quickly.

Yeah. And so, so with the guys around us, if, if Trouble had the wrong people around him in some of the situations we've been in, we probably wouldn't have got paid and might have went to jail with, with the wrong guys around us.

And that hurts your next show and your next show and your next show.

Every— everything is tied in together. Yeah. So, um, you just want to make sure that as much as possible that, uh, you're dealing with some good promoters. You want to help the promoter promote the show, but you don't want to work for them, but you want to help them. You want to give them the drops that they need. You want to post the stuff to your social media, um, not too much to alienate people, but you want to make sure your fans know what you got going on. And stuff like that. So you want to work those things out, um, and, and try to ensure that the promoter is successful, because if the promoter's successful booking you once, they're going to book you again and again and again.

Exactly. And if you're in a new level, understand that you can go into that market early since the promoter is paying for the travel anyway. You can get up early in the morning and go into that market, and you can blitz that market with your music and your um, posters, your flyers, all your promo, you know. Go to the universities, work the college campuses, work the high schools, hit the malls, hit the flea markets, at the barber shops, hit the other clubs, you know. Be careful in hitting the clubs because you're getting paid to do a show at, um, a club that has already paid you. So be very careful if you're going to other clubs. The promoter could get a little funny about that.

Yeah, I would stay away. Get a little— I would stay away.

Get a little funny.

Yeah, I wouldn't even go. I wouldn't even go in a place that that plays me.

But I sure would hit the parking lots.

Um, yeah, maybe, maybe I would. I would— what I like to do with the artist is to work in the daytime and do a lot of promo, right? And then let them wind down in the evening and get some rest so they're really fresh so that they're—

yeah, for the show, gung-ho.

Yeah. And so, um, but what we will do sometimes, if, if— and we haven't had this problem or this challenge in almost a year But, uh, it was a couple times we pull up in at the venue and it wasn't that packed, and I have a talk with the promoter and he'll have the back end and he'll be like, man, you know, it's a club right down the street that's really packed, but the people didn't believe that Trouble was coming. Let's go over there to the other venue right now while it's 12:30.

Brilliant. Let them see Trouble face and he could like lead them like the Pied Piper.

He'll lead them to the other club.

Brilliant.

And so we've done that. Um, like 2, maybe 3 times where we go to another venue, step in there, um, buy a couple drinks, let Trouble take a few pictures with some people, dab up the DJ, um, get his record played once or twice, and then bounce and go to the club where we got to perform at. Smart. Bring like an extra 100 people over there.

So it's a, it's a business, guys, so treat it, treat it as such and it'll be good to you.

No doubt.

Um, your success depends on your people skills. If you've got a team of people that are level-headed and have great people skills and can build relationships, you're going to go further than somebody that hangs around with assholes. And that's just the reality. Thanks for joining me.

No problem.

This was awesome. I really appreciate you.

Thank you.

Okay, sweetie. Bye, guys.