Songwriting | Wendy Day Interviews Ray Daniels

Hey, this is Wendy Day from Rap Coalition, and I'm sitting here with Ray Daniels. Ray's on the road as always. Hey, Ray!

Hey, how you doing?

I'm awesome. How are you?

Can you hear me okay?

No complaints, no complaints. I'm good. You can? Yeah, okay, you fine. It's funny because I didn't know— I didn't know what Skype— I can move your picture. Like, I slid, looked at the other side of the room. I didn't know I could do that. That's crazy.

Oh, that's cool.

Yeah, I just— I looked at your blinds for a minute and didn't realize what I was doing. I thought it was you, and then I realized it was me. But how's it going?

Yeah, you're a little tanner than I am, just, just a hair.

Exactly. How's it going?

It's going good. So, Ray, how did you get started in the music industry?

Uh, the funny part is that I got started in the music industry the same way I'm doing right now. I was in my car I'm driving down Old National Highway and this guy flags me down that I went to high school, middle school with, and he flagged me down. Like, literally, Wendy Day, I'm in college, I'm in junior college, I'm working from 9 to 5 at Delta. I'm not thinking about the music industry. And then one day this guy pulls me over on Old National, is like, I need to talk to you, like it's an emergency. And I'm like, what? Like, you know, you just see somebody, you you're on the side of the road, you see somebody there, you're like, oh, what's up, bro? Then they see you shooting, they're like, pull over, pull over, pull over. And I'm like, uh, okay. So I pull over and basically he was like, I need you to come to my crib. I need you to come to my crib like now. So I'm like, first of all, you know, at this time I'm like 21, 22. Oh, I'm like, we 4 years out of high school. I'm like, what the fuck? What the hell? Can I curse?

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, what the fuck do you want me to come to your house for? Like, That seems weird, like you're trying to set me up or something. I had a nice little car at the time, so I'm like, he might be trying to set me up. So he called me Wendy Day for like 2 months straight, every day. Bruh, bruh, man. But he only called me at night, like 11 o'clock at night.

That's weird.

Yeah, it was so weird. And he would be like, bruh, please man, just come over to my crib. So the funny thing is that the night that I was in the music industry, I brought my roommates with me because one of my roommates had a pistol. So I was like, yo, y'all remember such and such from high school? And he was like, yeah. I said, man, this dude been calling me every day to come to his crib, and I don't want to keep blowing him off because it might be something, but yo, grab your gun and y'all just roll with me, right? And I went to his house, and literally he, he lived in like this cabin off Old National. So weird. It was like, it was like an outhouse. It was like an outhouse barn that was like a cabin that he turned into a studio slash house. It was some weird stuff, right? And he was just like, you know, playing me all this music, and he was like— and he was like playing me songs on the keyboard. And I remember I was just blown away. And then I was like, bro, what the hell do you want me to do? Like, what do you call me for? He was like, bruh, ever since I saw you, ever since I've known you, you've always had the ability to talk to people and they listen. Right, since you was in, since you was in 7th, 8th grade, when you talk, people listen. He said, if you can talk to people about what I'm doing and make them listen, we can make a lot of money. So I said, shit, I don't, you know, at that time I was like praying and, and looking for something to do with my life, right? Like I said, I was in junior college, got a 9 to 5, you know, and I was like, something, this can't be my life. And I was like, something's gonna happen. And the ironic part is that that happened. And then I dived in headfirst, and here I am about 15 years later. You know, it took me— I didn't— I was diving in, I was still working, but I quit my job the next year. And then, um, I was like, fuck it, you know, this might be— this might— I'm young, this might be the thing that works in my favor. Let me just go for it. And the funny part is, I'm not going to say I wouldn't recommend that to anybody because it worked for me, and here I am, living proof. And I think it's whack when someone does something but they don't think another person can do it, like they're that unique. Weak, right? So I wouldn't— I wouldn't say I wouldn't recommend that to anyone, but what I will say is that, uh, the guys, all the guys that I came in it with, none of those guys made it. None of them got even close.

Wow.

Only guys that got close, none of them. I mean, when I say none of them got close, none of them got close. I left everybody right where they stand, and that's because I understood that I didn't have any talent. And I also— and when you don't have any talent, like, like you, Wendy Day Day, I think we do have talent, but what I mean by talent, means that I can't tangibly get on the stage, right? I can't open my voice and sing. I can't spit a 16, but I can't dance. So I understand that. Same here. I have no real— I have no real value right now. So I always treated myself like I have to find a way to make myself valuable. And those guys had all the talent, all the God-given talent. God-given. That's like really important to say. God-given. It was given to them, and they had all this talent, but they thought because God gave them the talent, he was going to make a way, and he never did. And I knew I had no talent and God wasn't going to make a way, so I bust my ass. So, you know, it's just crazy how the whole thing come together. But, you know, I'm just, you know, I always want to share that with people because I'm a dreamer. I'm all about dreams. I'm a Wendy Day. You know me, Wendy. I'm always happy. I'm always upbeat. And I'm a dreamer.

And you always have good ideas. You always have good ideas.

But I have to be realistic with where I am. That doesn't mean I can't dream of climbing to the top of the Empire State Building, but I can't act like I could run 100 miles an hour to the top floor because that's damn near impossible. I'm gonna kill myself. So I understood where I was at. I understood how to make friends with somebody so they could take me from one floor to 3 and then walk from 3 to 8. And then, oh, that's a guy I know. Hey, can I help you with your bags? And that guy takes me from from 9 to— I mean, from 8 to 11. And that's literally how I got to the floor I'm on right now and the, the way of life. And, you know, nobody wants to help somebody that's not helping themselves.

Exactly.

Nobody does.

Exactly.

What a great advice.

And with that being said, you know, I just wanted to say that because I love to inspire people and encourage people, but I don't like selling them a dream. Like, one day I woke up and all of a sudden here I am, successful. That's not what happened.

Yeah. Cause that's what they're hearing every day. Like when they're reading the different blogs and stuff, it makes it look easy.

And you know, you know me, like my ultimate dream is to be a motivational speaker, is to be someone who— I am a motivational speaker.

You are.

I mean, do for a fact.

You are already.

And my ultimate dream is to do that professionally and go around and talk to these kids. And I want to, I want to open up a Ray Daniels Academy where I teach kids about life. Like I'm so passionate about education because I didn't have mentorship. I didn't have— I had people who I looked up to like you who liked me enough to share 5 minutes with me. And then I understood you didn't have to do that.

Exactly.

You did give me 5, you know what I mean? So I always want to just set that, set that to people and let them understand what I was up against. But go ahead now. I'm gonna let you lead now. I just wanted to get that out.

I love that. And, and Man, I could stop it right here and this would be a million dollars worth of value. Um, I've been, I've been telling my, um, my viewers that I was going to interview you for like months now. I had to learn how to do this so I could interview you. This is why I've learned how to do this. Um, I get so many questions from people about songwriting and it's an area, you know, I work with all rappers and it's still, it's still taboo to have ghostwriters in rap. So I never learned about that.

Rap is a songwriting skill also. Just don't— like, don't never, don't never let someone— even if you're working with rappers, don't ever let them say to you, I'm a rapper. As much as you want to be a rapper, you're a fucking songwriter, bro. You're writing, right?

Because they're writing lyrics.

Yeah, if your song is— even if your songs just shoot 'em up, bang bang, kill 'em, I'm from the drug— even if you're writing about your life, yeah, you're writing songs about your life. And that's one of the things that I stress Everybody, right? So remember a concert, you hear Jay-Z say, allow me to reintroduce myself. Like, that's him writing a song, a song that people are going to— people are going to sing and people are going to repeat. And that's what a song is. A song is something that we want to— you want people to sing along to, even if it's rap, even if it's cool, even it doesn't require you having the best voice. You still want to be able to sing along to it. So don't work with rap. Don't let these rappers tell you, I'm not a— I'm not a songwriter. I'm a rapper, then don't make no fucking song, okay? Let's just rap all day. Let's not make hooks. Let's not think about what people want to sing. Just write 76 bars. Not even in the right number, right? 37 bars, right? And do that all day. And guess what? Get the fuck away from me too, because that ain't gonna make no goddamn money, right? You know, so that ain't gonna make no money. That ain't gonna make no money. And that's it. And that's the end of it. That's the end of it. So I just hate when they do that.

I got you. So if somebody wants to be a songwriter, where should they start? Um, um, that's a great question, and it's especially great because you've managed Rock City for so long and they've written so many records.

And the funny part was that, and the funny part was that they weren't That's there. I think in the last couple of years they're okay with being called songwriters, but Timothy to this day won't let you call him a songwriter. Timothy is like, nah, I'm not. I'm a rapper. But you know, Timothy, that's, that's the, that's the, that's the inner hip-hop in him that won't allow him to say it. But Timothy's a great songwriter, so awesome. I'm gonna give him that. He just, he just, he's not saying that he won't. Let me just, let me correct myself. He, he will let you call him him a songwriter, but he wants you to call him a songwriter after you call him an artist and a rapper, right? He won't let you introduce him like, hey, this is the songwriter named Timothy. Nah, bruh, I'm a rapper, I'm an artist, I just so happen to write songs, right? Taron, on the other hand, takes it a little bit more serious. So Taron will— he'll tell you, I'm a singer-songwriter, but they don't think that they're songwriters first. Songwriting came out of a necessity the way, uh, uh, uh, you know, I always say it's the way Jeezy so dope, or, you know, or, or, or, or, or any rapper, or Jay-Z when he's so dope, or any of the guys that's so dope, you know, these guys just, their dope was just songs. But they, but those guys also dope with the intent on becoming a successful artist. So their dope was just songs, and it just so happened to be things that were related, directly related to what they did for a living. But For the most part, they were, they were, uh, they were, they, you know, the songwriting thing was kind of, like I said, out of necessity. It was one of those things that we did because shit, we had no choice. Okay, you want to write, you want, you gonna pay us to write a song, we'll write a damn song. The funny part is that the first song we ever sold, I, I got us paid for it. Songwriters don't get paid. And Wendy Day, I didn't get us paid on some bully shit. It wasn't no, wasn't no like, hey man, you gonna pay us or we got some fucking problems, you know. Every— it wasn't like, it was like they wrote the song and Akon said song— I shouldn't have said his name, but he said after writing the song, he said, look guys, it wasn't even him, it was, it was the guy, it was, it was his manager. He was like, well look guys, we appreciate the song, but Akon has to get this much percentage on all his records. That that's the way his deal is set up, which I know it's game now, but it was funny to me because it was like, Wendy Day, I didn't give a fuck what his reason was why he wanted publishing. All I wanted was, can you give us $5,000 for that? It was like, $5,000, sure, no problem. They cut us a check for $5,000. Nice. Now, maybe that little, maybe that percentage that we gave up, maybe that little 10% we gave up might have been worth, you know, $100,000. But when you broke and you ain't got nothing, you know, and guess what? They was— and guess what? They were gonna take it anyway, right?

Right.

It wasn't like I had a choice at the table. That's why I said I didn't bully them. It's not like I had a choice at the table. It was one of those like, hey, look, I need a check and I need a percentage for this. And I was like, all right, that's cool, but can I get a check? And you know what, come to think of it, I should have asked for 10 grand, so they probably would have gave it to me. But we were so broke We were so broke at the time that that $1,000, my 20%— anytime I do a deal, I'm always imagining what I'm gonna get out of it. That 20% that I got, that $1,000 paid my rent that month, right? So shit, he's gonna take it anyway. I couldn't play— I played ball. I've always played ball. And, you know, to get to your point about songwriters and how do you get started, I mean, you know, the first thing I want to say is, is perfect your craft. Go, go, go, run. Okay, perfect your craft. I'm sorry, I'm in traffic and I like to run lights and somebody just ran a light and I wanted them to run it so I could run it behind them. But yeah, one of those things I like to talk about is when I talk to people is perfect your craft, right? And I came up with this new, uh, saying, right? I came up with this new comparison to music business and I'm going to share it with you.

Yeah.

And I think that this is something that all the kids get, right? So let's say, let's take music out of it and let's just use an example of clothes, right? Let's say you put on your best outfit, right? You say to yourself, you went to the store, Wendy Day, and you say to yourself, this shit right here is so nice. When I step out the house with this on and all my friends see me, they're gonna all go crazy when they see how the shoes and the shirt and the jacket They're going to look at me and be like, "Ooh, you are fresh," right? Right? That's a great example. Right? To yourself, when my friends see me, they're going to be like, "Oh my God, this guy is the fresh guy," right? So you put on the outfit, you get fresh. You don't dress. You just kind of get fresh and then walk in the room and be like, they see it, you know? So you get fresh, you walk in the room. Everybody sees it. They don't react the way you expect them to react, right? They look— they don't even acknowledge the outfit. They might even give you a bad look like, oh, the fuck are you wearing, right?

Wow.

Now, people in the world, when that happens, okay, all right, there's one person that comes in the room, recognizes that people didn't react the way he wanted them to react to his outfit, then says And then says, I gotta go figure out what I'm doing wrong. Maybe this outfit ain't as fresh as I am, as fresh as I thought it was. Let me figure out how to make it so when I walk in a room with my outfit, they go crazy, right? That's the winner. The loser says he walks out the room and says, those motherfuckers are some haters, right? That's the difference, right? That is, that is the difference. If that— if you can— if someone is intelligent enough to grasp what I just said, that is what it's like being in the music business and being successful.

Okay, I love that.

That's so right. Write a song, produce a song, make a song, whatever you are. Don't announce the song, don't brag on how dope the song is because I'ma fucking hear it. Press play to people that don't know it's you, and people that do know it's you, like me. And when you walk in a room and you press play, if they don't react the way you thought they were going to react, don't call them a hater. Go back home and perfect what you're doing. Now mind you, Wendy Day, let me give you the other side to that, okay? The person that's listening might be wrong, right? The person that's listening that you thought as a professional might be wrong. But if you take that attitude of always trying to figure out what am I doing wrong, you never can lose, right? Wendy Day, you're successful. We never had this conversation. You're successful as fuck. You've done amazing things in your life, but you still look at yourself like— and I've never asked you this, we never talked about this, we talk a lot. I've never asked you this. But do you ever ask yourself, what can Wendy do better?

Every day.

What am I— what can I strengthen? What exactly?

And get the Wendy fucking Day, right?

You're a winner, Wendy. It's not as where I'm in my life. I still wake up every day scared to death that I'm gonna do something wrong.

Me too.

And that means that is how I carry myself. So if I'm that way, and I've made great money in this and made a career. Fuck making great money. I've been in the music business making money since I got my first check in 2005. I've been in the music business making money for going on 12 years, and mind you, my money has increased every year. Thank God, right? I've been in the music business for 12 years making money, doing well for myself, right?

Yes.

And here I am, here I am, still trying to figure out what am I doing wrong and what can I do better. Now you're someone who's trying to get in it, but you're saying to yourself, everybody fucking hating, won't nobody give me a chance. Yeah, it's not about— it's not about music, it's about winners mentality.

Exactly.

It's— you take this mentality to basketball, you take it to fucking selling cookies, you take it to music, it's the same fucking concept. We are all here to We are all here to provide a service that we hope to get paid for. That's what we're all here to do. And in the music business, because there's so many people that you might think are not as good as you, not understanding that it's still something good about them. Wendy Day, I went— Wendy Day, I don't eat McDonald's, right? I used to eat it every day, but I haven't ate McDonald's in years, right? I haven't eaten a McDonald's burger in years, right?

Yeah.

So I feel like I could make a better burger than McDonald's, but that doesn't mean I can beat McDonald's.

No.

Like, something— it's something that McDonald's is doing that's working. It just doesn't work for me at this point in my life. Right, right. So when I'm talking to somebody who is— like, I got friends who still want to rap, and they're like, you know, and not to call this guy out because I actually think this guy's really talented. But I have a friend that came to my studio. He was like, man, listen to my new record. First of all, this friend is 35 plus. He's really older than me, but I don't want to age him too much. He's older than me, right?

Right.

So he's like, this shit is better than that, that Lil Yachty shit. And I'm like, and I literally one day I looked at him. I said, that's why you'll never make it. Instead of you looking at what Lil Yachty does that makes him special, You're looking at what Lil Yachty doesn't do that you do well to make you feel like you're better than him, right? You'll never fucking win. You're never fucking with— you're so busy focusing on how much better than him you are at something that he never even claimed to be good at.

Exactly. He's not trying to be the best.

He's not trying to be, but his fans love him. He's trying to be the best him. Yeah, guess what? That is special too. That is a talent.

I agree.

You know, when I'm talking to people about everything and everything in the business, it's amazing to me how people don't get that small little adjustment you can make in your attitude that can change your life.

Right.

So if you're writing songs and you want to be a songwriter, like, first thing is ask yourself, is this better than everything? Radio. Because in order for you to make it, it needs to be.

It needs to be better than everybody knows.

Nobody cares about you. Nobody. Yes. Nobody knows you. Nobody cares about you. You manage, you manage Trouble, right? Trouble's dope, right? But you know, Trouble is not competing with everybody in his neighborhood. Trouble's competing with Drake, Future. Am I right? Yes, exactly. And guess what? If he was competing with everybody in his neighborhood, he's already the best, right? But he's competing with people who are higher than him. So now he has something to strive to make Trouble better, right? And that's why he's coming up. That's why I'm seeing him in pictures with Drake and and Mike Will and Justin Bieber and all these people he's in pictures with because they're recognizing that. Yeah, he had to recognize that first. So when I'm talking to people that write songs, I use examples a lot because it's easier to accept an example that has nothing to do with you because you don't take the example personally.

Exactly.

But the reality is, is that this music songwriting is not fucking— it's not, it's not a hard thing to do. If you accept where you are and where you gotta go.

Okay.

And if you, if you accept— and like I said, if you're not better than everything on the radio, then you need to go back to the drawing board. I didn't say just as good.

You said better.

You know, Wendy, I— better. Wendy, I think I'm an okay-looking guy, right? You are, right? No, I think I am. I don't think I'm the most handsome guy on Earth.

Wow, what a place for him to freeze.

I don't know, I've never walked in the room and said I look better than him because in my mind it's like, well, I probably don't to them. I probably— so it's not like it's— I'm— it's not like I'm head over heels better than him. So it's like, how the fuck can I even try to put myself in that world? You gotta measure yourself to realistic expectations. You have to be better than everything on the radio, not Not better than the— not better than the bottom piece on the radio that you think is trash. Better than everything. Not just as good, but better. Better. Better. Not just— and I stress that— not just as good. Better.

So if somebody—

if after you're better— one more piece. No, go ahead. After you're better, after you're better, your shit also better sound like a year from now, right? As opposed to sound like a year into the future. Because even if you make a song that's better than the radio today, you still got all the other kids, all the other professional songwriters who's writing the record that's gonna be on the radio in 6 months.

Exactly.

So you need to be sounding— you need to be sounding like you in the future too. Shit, you damn near need to predict the future, bruh.

You do have to predict.

And if you don't, if you don't It ain't it. You— everything I just said, and I know I'm talking in, I guess, a small code. I feel like I'm talking to you like I would talk to my son. Right, right. So if you don't get this, then you need to check yourself too, because this is so simple to understand. So simple. And that's what I would say. Be better. Be efficient. Be efficient. Don't be like, you're new. How Rock City got on, you know how Rock City got on? When I started managing them, I would basically hit anybody who I knew and say to them, hey, bruh, I got some of the dopest writers in the game. Give us 5 minutes. You don't like what we doing, after 5 minutes you could put us out. Now people really was like, you know what, when you think about it from that standpoint, 5 minutes ain't that bad. You'll give anybody 5 minutes if they tell you All I need is 5 minutes, and after that, I'll never waste your time again. You'll never— you don't mind. Okay, 5 minutes, which is really probably 2 minutes, but you're like, 5 minutes, go ahead.

Right.

And if they say some bullshit, that was bullshit, never call me again. So I would ask for 5 minutes, and you know, people will respond. And then when people would respond, they would kill it, and then I would use that as an example. So I might hit somebody and be like, yo, give me 5 minutes. Akon just took a record. Jazzy Fae love him. Give me 5 minutes.

All right, cool.

Fuck it. Those guys love it. Let me give you 5 minutes. Plus those guys love it. So let me see. Then every time we went in the room, they would deliver. Right. And even if that— even if their records didn't come out, the most important thing they delivered was Wendy Day delivered something in that 5 minutes.

Right.

I wasn't lying. I didn't say give me 5 minutes and they're going to write you Thriller. I didn't say that. I said give me 5 minutes and they're going to show you that they're worth your time.

And then you have them right there on the spot.

What? I would bring them in the room.

Awesome.

What? I would bring them in a room. You be— we'd be talking about them. Let me tell you something, this is real. This is really how it happened. We would be in a room and I'll be having a pleasantries talk with them while, if you know, you walk in the studio, somebody got a beat playing, you know, they tend to turn the music down where you can hear it but it's not overpowering the conversation. Yeah, right. And while the music is playing low and I'm having my pleasure treat— How you doing man? Man, appreciate you taking your time out. Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah da da da! Swear to God, Wendy Day, swear to God, in that little time Teron is like yo can you turn it up? I got an idea for that. Can I get in the booth? He would get in the booth and freestyle some shit and then people will be like holy shit!

That's awesome!

Like I told you all I need is 5 minutes. Yeah. And then that turned into everybody talking. It's a small community. Everybody knows everybody.

Yes.

You know, you should get into the community and make sure that you, you, you, you, you, you show them, you know, like, like you either kill your name or you could build your name.

Exactly.

And if you come into the business and you're building your name and you're respectful and you're nice— and Wendy Day Day, I've never been an asshole to ever. I've never been a piece. I've never been— you've never been an asshole to me. Now, there's some people I've had to check, but they deserved it. And guess what? After I checked them, we were cool again because I let them know I ain't personal, but I'm not gonna let you disrespect me. Exactly. And what I mean— and let me clear that up too, because some people might be listening and think, oh, I'm gonna check somebody. No, no, I would check somebody when they said something or did something. I wouldn't check somebody because they had me waiting outside for 17 hours. And be like, bitch, you had me outside waiting. Nah, I would check them when it would be like, you know, the guys come in a room and write a song, and then they— I'm trying to think of a good scenario. A guy's coming in a room and they write a song, and then the manager of the song, that, that other producer, will take the song that my guys wrote and just sell it. And I'll be like, oh hell no, bro, why don't Why the fuck would you just sell a song without telling me? Yeah. Oh man, how you know I couldn't go to that person to make them pay me? Motherfucker, the song has value. Yes. You know what I mean? So it would be shit like that, but it would be a reason. Then they'd be like, my bad, Ray, I know now, we gonna move differently. And then we move differently. But yo, it's all good, just don't fuck me again and we gonna be good.

Exactly.

You know, I always was there. So, you know, like I said, I was always realistic, you know, and always You know, I didn't bullshit and I understood that I had to be liked and I made sure that people liked me.

Exactly. And you always delivered. You always deliver.

That, that, that, that, that, that goes without saying, right? You go to a restaurant, you order a T-bone steak, mashed potatoes and broccoli. They're going to give you that right now. The most important thing is how the server made you feel while giving you that.

Exactly.

That's what I'd be trying to tell people. We are in a service business.

Yes.

Never forget you are here to provide a service. Never forget, as a songwriter, never forget you're writing a song that you want someone to like enough to cut, buy, and put out.

So when you're, when you're writing songs and your, your goal is to sell them, now let's say that, that a person can write a better song than what's on the radio, they've got decent relationships in the industry, when they go to sell a song, do they have to demo it or can they just sell the lyrics?

I mean, yes, no, somebody has to demo it. Somebody has to, somebody has to record the song. Okay, so somebody has to demo the song because the person that's going to sing it has to mirror the demo. So, and mind you The person can bring the song to life also, so don't get too deep in that. That's another thing I want to stress. Like, if I played you the demo that Tarron did for Jennifer Hudson, If This Isn't Love— and mind you, Jennifer Hudson is a singer— if this isn't love, tell me what it is. Like, she can sing, but Tarron's demo was a male singing a girl song in a girl voice. She heard through that. And the funny part is, if you go back and listen to that song, when Teron did his demos, he would always add ad-lib track to it. So, if this isn't love, hey, he will always scream on record, right? And he would scream on record, and Jennifer left his vocals on the background. So if you ever hear this is love, for you songwriters out there that want to listen, go back and listen to Jennifer Hudson, If This Isn't Love. And when you hear it, you're going to hear Someone— you're gonna hear a male in the background, hey, screaming loud as fuck. And that's because Teron left that on his demo. So that's my point. Like, you could just— as a writer, you could just write a song. It doesn't have to be delivered that properly. You don't have to sound as good as an artist. You don't have to pay a demo singer. I hate when people pay demo singers. And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to knock the demo singer's business. I get it, somebody wants you to sing a song, but I feel like, I feel like a great song doesn't need a demo singer. If you're a girl and you— if I played you Rock City's demo of Man Down, you'll be like— if I played you Taron's demo of Miley Cyrus' We Can't Stop, it was just a male trying to sound like a girl. We can't stop. It sounded just like that. Right. But they can hear it.

But they can hear it because that's their gift.

Yeah, yeah. But guess what? That goes back to what I said earlier. When you walk in the room and you think your shit fresh. Right. And it's really just, it's not you. It's not that your shit ain't— it's not that people ain't recognizing. It's just that your shit ain't as fresh as you thought it was. Right. Simple as that. Sometimes we win some, sometimes we lose some. We might feel a way and feel like our record was better. But guess what? We'll get them next time.

Exactly.

And that's the end, you know, and like, you know, that's what I'm saying. Another thing that you got to also know is that a lot of these, a lot of these labels and artists and people like that have their own go-to people. Right, right. A lot of people might have their own go-to people. So if they have their own go-to people, they really like, like, like Wendy Day, you like, you like your company is You, Tony, and y'all have a dog, right?

Yes, Gangster.

Gangster. You, Tony, and Gangster in the house all day, right? Yeah. Okay, cool. Imagine somebody else wants to come in the house. Uh, I like it with me, Tony, and Gangster. It works for us.

Yeah, it's comfortable. I don't want somebody else there.

Guess what they say? They guess what they say? We'll come in there, we'll cook, we'll clean, we'll do everything. You know what? I don't mind you coming through. Let's see how it feels when you cook and clean for me, you know? And then you like That's what I mean. It's all about being liked and being— somebody wanted to let you in the door. Rihanna doesn't need a hit from you. This is what I— it's a funny story. My man is Taron. You know, me and Taron are best friends. I love that guy. He's one of the most special people I've ever met in my life. And I managed to run— I mean, me and Taron are having a phone— on the phone arguing. And Taron is in his mode at the moment where, you know, sometimes you get in this moment where you feel like people don't recognize him. Like his greatness or how good he is, or people don't embrace him. Like, you know, it's like 7 years ago he called me, he going crazy, Wendy, going crazy. Oh man, these motherfuckers, right, they don't fucking recognize me. They're not good. I am. They're not this, they're not that. So I'm like, I'm like, uh, so I'm like, Teron, calm down. You know, it's one of the moments where you got the phone to your ear when you do it like this. Yes. Yo, Teron, calm down. I need to talk to you for a second. All right, what's up? Calm down. Do me a favor. Where you at? He said, I'm in a car. I said, okay, cool. Do me a favor. Mind you, Wendy Day, he's going crazy. He's screaming at the top of his lungs. I said, where are you? And he's, I'm in the car. I said, do me a favor, turn on the radio. And mind you, he was in LA and I was in Atlanta. I was in LA. He was— we weren't in the same place. He was like, what the fuck you talking about, Ray? I'm not even in the same place as you. Well, I was on the radio. I said, just do me a favor and turn on.

Just do it.

Yeah, turn on the radio. He said, what station? I said, any station you find. Just turn on the radio and tell me what song you hear. He turns on the radio. He's listening to a song. I asked him a question. I said, what song is playing? He said, I don't know, says something about— I think it says— I said, is it a hit? He said Yes, it's a hit. I said, did you write it? He said, no. I said, so nigga, stop talking shit about how great you are until every time you turn on the radio, your song is playing. Wow. And mind you, Wendy Day, this is after he wrote hits, right? And I said, until then, until then, you can just remember this. The game need us, we need the game, right? At the minute that you start thinking that the game needs you is the minute you should quit. Become the game then.

Exactly.

Like Jay-Z, the game needs him at some point.

Ray, I'm losing you.

And now, all right, he put his money where his mouth was and he's backing it up. So at this point, so at this— when I tell somebody the game don't need you, let me tell you something. The worst thing that— you know what's worse than being in the cold for the whole— for your whole life? And you know what's the only thing worse than being in the cold for your whole life freezing to death? Being let inside.

Really?

Seeing what inside feels like and then being put out and being put back out.

So now you know what you're missing.

So now, now you know what you're missing. Yeah. Now you're depressed. Yeah, motherfucker that's been cold their whole life don't even know that. They don't even know it. Wendy Day like, man, I'm used to this cold. Motherfucker that's been inside for a year or two, warm as fuck, putting on a hot coat, feeling good, hot cocoa and shit. They looking at it like— they look at the game way differently than a person that's on the outside, right? I always say this, the game don't need you. And when you Understanding that the game don't need you, because one day they're gonna send you home. Wendy Day send all of us home. They do. That's the game. Yep. That is just one day they're gonna send me home, they're gonna send you home. I just, I just hope that the day they send you home, and I tell us to people, that you've made enough that you have a nice warm house for the rest of your life.

Exactly, exactly.

Because guess what? If you don't and they put you out in the cold, you're gonna be miserable as fuck, cuz you're gonna know what that heat feels.

Absolutely.

So don't think the game owes you. You owe the game. Don't owe you, you owe the game. Remember that. Remember, I swear to God, if they remember anything, remember that. Remember that.

Exactly. So, Ray, when they demo songs—

Michael Jordan was the greatest player too. Yeah, yeah, no, no, we— yeah, yeah, of course you should demo songs. Absolutely. How many demo songs?

How many?

Every song needs to be demoed that you write.

No, no, no. When you submit songs, do you submit just one or do you submit a demo with like 10 or 20 songs?

Mm-hmm. Hell no. Hell no. This— okay, this is when you have to— this one, the consumer in you has to come up, right?

Okay.

This is when you remove yourself and you become the consumer. Wendy Day, somebody you don't know gives you a a CD of 10 songs. Are you going to take the time out today to listen to all 10 of those songs? No. Exactly. So what you really want is somebody to give you a song, maybe 2, no more than 3, but 3 is almost overkill to me. 3 is almost overkill. 3 is like— 3 is like overkill. Like, 3 is overkill. So give me 1 or 2 songs. Make— if I check my email and you put 6 songs in my email, I'm not— I don't have time to cipher out which one is the best. They're your fucking songs. You should be able to tell me, right? Send a person 1 or 2 songs, get it out there, go from there.

Awesome.

And if they don't react to those songs, don't call them a hater. Don't say motherfucker don't want to see me winning. Don't do that, right? Just, just go back to the drawing board and say, hey bro, I appreciate you listening to my one song. If it's always— this is always a good question to ask. There's always a good question to ask, right? If you want to be up-and-coming songwriter, you want to be in the music business, you want to know the best question to ask. If you have any, if you have any feedback, let me know. Almost got ran up the road just now. If you have, if you, if you own— if you have any feedback, let let me know. Any feedback will be appreciated, man. That means a lot to me when I ask you that, because that's, that's your way of telling me, man, I respect your opinion enough and I wish you would tell me what I'm doing right or wrong.

And you also know that the artist wants to grow. If somebody's asking for feedback, it means they want to grow.

Exactly.

They take criticism and constructive input.

Exactly.

Should a songwriter have a manager, Ray, or can they do this themselves?

Um, I mean, yeah, I guess if they want. I mean, it depends, man. Don't, don't, don't, don't have a manager for the sake, the sake of saying you have a manager. Have someone who is as passionate about you as you are.

Okay.

But also as passionate about being your manager as you, as you will want them to be.

Got it.

Like, there's some people that's passionate about you, but they don't— and they might not necessarily be qualified to be your manager. They might be passionate about you, like they believe in you to the point where they'll quit their job just to carry your bags because they believe you're going to be big one day. That doesn't mean that that person is also smart enough and intelligent enough to walk in the room and speak on your behalf for your business, right?

It's a great point, you know.

And then you find somebody who can, who can be passionate about you but also intelligent enough. Management is— management is— I think, I think management is more, more important than I think management— and it's gonna be really bold what I'm about to say— I think management is more important than the talent.

It's certainly harder to find. A good manager is far harder to find than talent.

I can tell you why. I can tell you why I say that. Because, because your manager is like your coach, right? Are you familiar with sports, Wendy Day? Wendy, you don't care about sports.

I don't care about sports, but I'm sure folks watching will get the analogy.

Okay. So it's like the New England Patriots, right? Or the San Antonio Spurs, right? Those are two teams that have won a lot of championships but are also very good every year. Right. And that's because the coach sets the standard, right? How they play. If the manager is lazy, so is the artist, right? You feel what I'm saying? If the manager's lazy, if the manager's not— if the manager's not passionate about— if the manager's not passionate about you as you are about you, and I mean, and the manager said, like, Taron, for example, when Taron called me that day going crazy about how he was a best in the game, right? He was the best in the world. If I was the right— the wrong manager would have been like, yeah, you're justified, you are the best in the world, fuck everybody, fuck everybody, right?

But that doesn't help him.

That's bad management.

Good, it doesn't help him.

Me telling him, stay humble, understand that the game don't need you, and just appreciate where you are. Exactly. Every song on the radio Shut the fuck up, bro, until you have every song on the radio. I'm sorry, I'm getting out my car now.

You gotta—

I'm walking to my studio. Until you, until you, until you have every song on the radio, bro, shut the fuck up, right? And that's what good— and that's what a good coach does. That's what a good manager does.

We lost you, Ray. Ray, we lost you.

Can you hear me?

I can hear you now. I lost you for, um, that whole stretch.

A good manager tells you everything you need to hear to be better.

Okay, right. They don't coddle you. They let you know what's real.

I know.

Yeah, exactly. And I think that that's It is important.

Ray, how does the process work when you're working with an artist like a Rihanna? Do you submit music to her or to the label, or do they do studio sessions? Like, how do— when you get to that next level, how does it work?

It works like all of those things you just said.

Okay.

It works like all those things you just said. It's like, it's like if you working with Rihanna, Um, if you're working with Rihanna, for us, like, for an example, you're probably not going to be in a studio with her because Rihanna is a global star. So she's going to have you— her people are going to reach out to the select people that they want and tell you where she is. Okay, they're going to say something like, like, we didn't make the Anti album, but what the reason why we didn't make that album was because when they described it They, number one, they, they said she was— remember, she went through a whole lot of different stages. At one point, Kanye was executive producing the album, remember that? And that at one point, yeah, Travis Scott executive producing the album. And it was all these different stages of direction. And then finally, yeah, and then finally she got to the last stage. And I remember listening to this, listening to the music, and I remember, uh, her A&R played me and Teron the album. After it was done, and he was just like, look, this— the album is done. If you guys want to try to beat this, you could try, right?

I lost you again.

We just understood. We just understood where she was, right? Understood where she was, and then that's how we made it work in our favor.

Gotcha.

So, you know, sometimes— but this album that she's on we're working on this album, but it's a direction that she's going into. And we understand that direction. So we're staying there. Right, you know, but it's, it can be anything. I mean, it varies to where, you know, at the end of the day, like I said, we provide a service, it depends on where Rihanna is. If Rihanna's in the right service, she's in the right mind state, you know, or I'm not the right mind state, if she's in the mind state that we fit, they come see us. If she's in a mind state we don't fit, They don't come see us. It's nothing personal. It's just, you know, shit, it's business. That's what she's at right now, and that's it, you know. And we've had a lot of success with Rihanna, like a lot of success with her. So sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. That's life, right? But we don't walk around saying she hating on us, I'll tell you that much.

Yeah, she's not. Yeah, she's not exactly.

It's where she's at and, and what she needs is what she wants to do at that moment. And she's a fucking superstar. And guess what, Wendy? She hasn't been wrong yet.

She has not been wrong yet. You're right.

So at some point in time, you gotta listen to what she wants. She ain't missed yet. She hasn't missed yet. And I mean, I say that to say that's amazing to me that she hasn't missed yet. Like, everybody misses from time to time. She has not missed. Her team is amazing. Shout out to my boy Omar Grant. He's, he's the shit. He's an A&R. He's the shit. Like, and he, he's on it. She got a great team around her. So yeah, I mean, it just depends. I mean, it's all about earning where— it's all about earning. It's all about earning the spot to get there, you know, simple. But everybody has a chance.

My, my last question for you, Ray, is should a new songwriter just write as much as they can and work with as many people as they can in order to build their their, um, resume, if you will?

Well, I wouldn't say write— well, hold on, let me say this. I would say write with as many people as you can until you find your magic.

Okay, so like find what you're good at.

If you're a songwriter and you're working with— I mean, go out there and play the field, but it's like having— it's like a marriage. I mean, if it fits what's going on, if it fits you Like, for example, Neo and Stargate, amazing chemistry, right?

Okay.

Stargate and Esther Dean, amazing chemistry. Taron and Stargate, not amazing as their chemistry. We made some great songs with them, but not like Esther and them do, right? Like, it's just how Neo might not work well with, uh, with, uh, with, uh, Mike Will. We work well with Mike Will. It's just finding who you mesh with.

Gotcha.

And once you find who you mesh with, it's about, you know— and then mind you, we haven't worked with Stargate in a couple of years. We might work with Stargate tomorrow and it's the magic is there and it messes, right? It's all about timing and where you are in life and how that fits.

Gotcha.

That's all it's about. It's about timing, it's about where you are and how it fits. It's like when you're a 21-year-old girl, you want to thug But when you're a 35-year-old woman, you want a man with a good job. It's all about where you're at in life, you know. It just hap— it just has to work, right, you know. And that's what it is, right?

Needs change.

That's what it is. So I think it's, it's all about that. So the best, the best advice for somebody is like, man, you— at the end of the day, we're all trying to create magic, you know, right? And, and that— and, and what I mean by that, I mean Even if you're selling burgers and fries, or if you're selling a song, or if you're a basketball player, we're all trying to create magic, right? And the smart ones understand that they're searching for that magical combination. And once you find that, keep it, right? You know, like, like, I don't ever stick in one place if it's not working. Or it goes back to that, um, that analogy I made about someone walking in the room with that outfit on. You know, if I walk in the room, my outfit on, and they don't go crazy, I'm gonna go probably— let me go change the hat. Let me add a hat to bring it together. Let me change something. And if that doesn't work, then I'm going to eventually realize I need to switch it up.

Right.

And I'm always— even now at this point in my life, like, I'm still searching for the magic. I'm still like Wendy Day. I'm every day, and I'm somewhat successful from where I come from.

Very successful.

Yeah, I appreciate that, but I know so many people way more, you know, like I got friends with Slim. I talk to Slim all the time, you know, he has the biggest artists in the world, has had that for almost 20 years, whether it was Juvie to Juvenile to Wayne to Drake. So at some point in time, I need to sit in the room humbly and ask him or learn from him. And the best part is that Slim is like, Ray, you, you, you the man to me. Like Slim is like, Ray, you, I listen to you, right, because you smart and I appreciate that. But I still was around Slim about 10 times before I opened up my mouth and talked.

Because you wanted to learn?

It wasn't that. It was just I wanted to be respectful to who he was.

Oh, okay.

I want to be respectful to his history. And you know me, I got a very dominant personality. I don't want to walk in a room with somebody who's made way more, been way more successful, telling what we need to be doing. Like, that's whack shit. I need to be in a room learning from him. So I did that and then I started speaking and then he was like, wow, you really know your shit, bro. I fuck with you. But I earned that.

Right.

You know, and Matt, and you know, I'm such an optimist and I wanna see us do so well and be so successful. And Wendy Day, I wanna see us all make history.

Right.

I just wish that we understood what we were doing right and what we were doing wrong.

Right.

And how to immediately fix it so it doesn't happen again.

Exactly. And tweak it.

So it's perfect.

Yeah, like, like, like, you, you have to. Every day I— every night I go home, I evaluate myself.

Every night.

Yeah, every night I go home, I evaluate myself. Like, I think to myself, what did I do right today? What did I do wrong today? Did I even earn the right to go to sleep?

Right.

I always say, what could I have done better? Like, I analyze every situation I do, and I say, okay, what could I have done to make either that turn out better or handle it better.

And you know, I remember we had a conversation. I'm not going to go too deep into it because it's for you to reveal, but we had a meeting one day, you, myself, and Tony, and you was just like, Ray, I'm not good at this part. And to be— I'm being honest with you, that was amazing to me.

Touring. I was talking about touring. Yeah, I suck at touring.

But that was— but guess what? That was amazing to me because you're someone who I admire and look up to and can learn from.

Right.

You taught me a really good lesson too. I'm gonna share with you. That's like, just so you talk, just so you understand, I'm the type of dude I soak so much up. But I remember when you said that, and I remember being damn near blown away.

Like, really?

I swear to God, you probably could tell by the look at my face, but I'm thinking about this moment. I'm like, is this Wendy fucking Day telling me?

No, I know my weaknesses and I know my strengths.

Yeah, but, but, but guess what though? That's what makes you special. That's what makes you a legend. Real talk, that's what makes you so legendary, right? And that's what makes your brand so pure, because you won't even dilute it, right? And that was dope to me, and it was a lesson you taught me. And you— and once again, me just soaking up stuff. I have a lot of invisible mentors. They don't know they're my mentor, but they mentor me. And you told me, and you said, "Ray, the music industry is about creating events." Yes. And you told me, you said, "Everything you do, you must make it into an event." It's an event. Because when it becomes an event, then it becomes getting built up to bigger and bigger and bigger events.

So you was like, "We need to do one thing, but we gotta make it an event, right? This is an event." This is an event right here.

This is an event. And I love you for that. I remember when you told me, about NPR. This is an event. This was going to happen from this. And I remember that. And I just thought it was amazing that you did it that way. And I just always appreciated you for that. So, I mean, if you have any more questions, I don't mind answering, but I just want you to see how I've had a lot of conversation with you, but I remember the things that stood out that I took into my— right, you could apply— I took it to my media arsenal. Some things you got to go over time, but some things I took into my arsenal in a way where it was was like, it was immediate. Like, oh, I'm doing, I'm doing that now. I understand that. I regurgitated that to the next, to a group of people the next day like it was my shit. Because you gotta make it about events.

Yeah. I'm like, you know, I go, you go.

That's the game. That's the game. You know how the game is. So yeah, so, but yeah, that would be it for me. But anything else you guys?

Is there, is there anything about songwriting that I should have asked that I didn't? Like, did I leave anything out? That, that is necessary to discuss?

Um, no, you actually did pretty good. The only thing I would say is that pop music is conceptual. Urban music is all lingo-based.

Lingo.

Okay, so pop music is conceptual, and this is not color. I'm not speaking on color, I'm speaking on the genre, right? Pop music is conceptual. So, you know, pop music is always about how clever you can say something, right? How unique you can say it in a way where it's like, like, what, what is 24 Karat? Like, 24K, like, what is that? It was just another way of Bruno Mars at 24 Karat Biggie said, throw your rollies in the sky, right? Just conceptually, they're saying the same thing. Bruno just saying, put your 24 karats in the air, you know? And Biggie said, put your rollies in the sky, you know? It's all about concepts, conceptual stuff. But urban music is all about lingo, right? It's all about lingo and understanding that when you look to someone in the urban culture, you're looking for that person to create a new lingo that becomes the lingo, right? So, you know, like, what is, like, for example, I was in a car with a white friend of mine and, you know, we listening to the Migos. Mama told me not to sell work, 17-5, same color. T-shirt. And my white friends like, what is 17-5? And I'm like, he said, what is 17-5? And I'm like, that's a price for a key.

Old price for a key, by the way.

But my point is, is that, but it's so embedded.

Yeah.

And our culture.

Yeah.

I can hear the word 17-5 and know what it means and know it's a key.

Yes.

That's what urban music is. It's all about creating the new lingo. So now you got the kid Drum and Yachty. Now kids are saying, "I smoke broccoli." It's another way of saying weed.

Right.

Right? It's another way. It's all about lingo with urban music. It's all about saying something that makes— that becomes new culture. Like, urban is cool. Taylor Swift is not cool. When she wants to get cool, she goes and gets somebody urban.

Right.

When she wants to get— when Ariana wants to get cool, she goes and puts Future on the record. Maroon 5 put Future on the record. Maroon 5 had Kendrick on the record. They understand how to make pop cool, right? Right. And, and that's great. I mean, that's great for all cultures. We're crossing cultures, and that's amazing. But it's an understanding of what— I don't— Maroon 5 didn't bring Future to the table to— for Maroon 5 fans. Right. Maroon 5 fans are solidified, right? They brought Future to the table to bring that lingo that's going to bring that younger demo to them. It's all about the lingo, and that's what it is. So that would be it for me as songwriters. You know, it's only a few emotions that we could feel as songwriters. It could be I love you, I hate you, I'm mad at you, I forgive you. There's only a few. I'm happy to be with you. There's only a few emotions that we can have with each other, right? It's only a few emotions we could truly have with each other. And, and the art of songwriting is finding clever ways to bring that emotion to life, right?

Right.

It's simple. Like, it's only a few ways. Like, it's only like— like Aaron Hall made a song called I Miss You where he was telling the girl, I'm talking to you, baby, I miss you. Bruno Mars made the same song, same concept, but his version was "When I Was Your Man," right? I hope he bought you flowers, I hope he holds your hand, I hope he takes you, give you all his hours when he had a chance. Like, he's saying the same sentiment. As songwriters, we only— it's only about 7 or 8 real emotions that we can express. And the object of a songwriter, the importance of you songwriters that are listening, is Your job is to give us a new way of saying something to someone I love, right? Or someone I'm mad at, right? Or someone— like, your song is the song you— what you're writing is a new way for us to either celebrate each other, hate each other, love each other, miss each other. That's what you're— that's what you're writing. Like R. Kelly said, write about life. Writers, don't write a song, write a conversation that rhymes, right? That's serious. Like, R. Kelly is the best songwriter to me of all time.

Is he really?

Absolutely. I mean, like, this dude can give you I'm a Flirt, he can give you Feeling on Your Booty, he can give you If I Could Turn Back the Hands of Time, he can give you— and he could also give you I Believe I Could Fucking Fly.

Yeah, yeah.

Ain't too many motherfuckers that can go from that range, right? This motherfucker just went from telling me I want to fuck her to telling me I'm sorry to telling my kids they could fly. Yeah, come on, man. He understood how to write about life, and that's what makes him special, you know? It's like, it's like, find— write down keywords, write down words that mean something, write down words that matter. Like the word altar, right? What does altar mean to you? Altar to me is marriage, right?

So you say, that's funny.

Exactly. Yeah, see what I'm talking about? So find keywords and find ways of making those words come to life in a clever way, right? Like, like chain. What is a chain? Chain— Jay-Z used it in a double entendre way. It was like, she loved my necklace, started relaxing. That's what I call a chain reaction. He's talking about the chain, but he's also talking about a chain and the chain reaction. You see what I'm saying?

Yes.

Oh, your job as a songwriter is to bring words to life, add color to them. You're writing songs for a moment in time. You know, like when John Legend wrote All of Me, I don't think that he was imagining having sex to that song. I don't think he was imagining being in the club standing on a table with a bottle in his hand to that song.

Right.

The sentiment was a man watching his wife sleep or something that you want to send to your wife, and that's what makes it a hit. You know, when Drake made Started from the Bottom, I don't think he made that for a woman to walk down the altar.

No.

You know, he made it for when you in the club with your friends friends, and y'all feeling good about yourselves. And y'all realize we came, we came from that place, and now we're here.

Yes.

Started from the bottom, now we're here. Drake didn't even start from the bottom like that, you know, he wasn't in the projects. But that was their bottom.

That was their bottom. Everybody has a bottom.

And that's why Drake, to me, is one of the other best songwriters ever. Like, he understands how to turn words into something. Like, he just understands how to take a lingo and make it work. So that's what it is. You're writing a soundtrack to our life, you know. You're writing a soundtrack to our life.

Like, I like that, writing a soundtrack to our life.

Write the soundtrack to our lives and your life. We all like to think that we used to turn same, um, same shit, different toilet, right? We all— I remember, last story, I remember when we was making Rock City's album and Luke brought me to— Dr. Luke brought me to the studio to play Rock City demo, Rock City's album. He was like, we need to pick a single. And he played me like 9 songs. And like the 6th song he played was this song called, uh, Would You Love Me the Same? And I was like, Luke, that's our single. He was like, you think so? And I said, I know it is. He's like, why? I said, because I felt that emotion before. We changed the song to Locked Away, but because Locked Away gave it an urban undertone. Okay, Locked Away was like, it made it a little urban, like, you know, but the reality was you— everybody feels like that. If I couldn't be strong, if I couldn't give you my all, if I got locked away, would you still love me the same? 'If I fell off, would you still love me?' And I told Luke, I said, 'That's our hit.' And he was like, 'You think so?' I said— and we had to make some changes to the verses. I was like, 'I think we should change the verses. I think we should add— the verses are too angry melodically. I think we need to mellow out the— make the pretty out the melodies.' And, you know, the initial version was like, 'If I ever leave, man, would you want to leave me?' I was like, that sounds too aggressive. And then they changed it.

If I know, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, by my side.

And they made it a little bit prettier.

And then it became—

it became exactly— but we, but we understood what we were doing and we did it and it worked. And you know, like I said, but I picked that record because I said to myself— and mind you, it was, it was, it was a lot of records we was picking through because we had a great fucking album. If If you haven't heard that R. City What Dreams Are Made Of album, please don't— you don't have to buy it, just stream it. I promise you, it's so fucking good. It is good. But I remember hearing that line, would you still love me the same? And I said to myself, I felt that I said that to myself, or I thought that about someone to myself, right? And it wanted to be in the number one song in the world because everybody feels that way. Everybody feels that way. Everybody wants to know, if I can't be what— if I can't be the better version of myself today, would you still love me like you did yesterday?

I love it.

That's a way— that's a different way of saying it. Somebody might take that lyric. If they do, they better give me my publishing. I'm gonna find out if they watch this shit. But yeah, you know, it's just— it's just— you're right, you're writing the words to our life, man. Just write the words to our life, man. Please don't write what you want the people to here, right with the people are living and hearing, right?

Right.

Please. That's about it.

Ray, you have been so generous with your time. I love you so much. Thank you so much.

Love you too. Anytime, you know, anytime you need me to stop and do it. Education is my— the most important thing too.

Absolutely is.

So I, I take time out to educate anybody about what they need to do. So absolutely, anytime. And if you need me to do this tomorrow, I do it all over Thank you, Ray.

All right, bye-bye.

Take care, babe.

Bye.