The moment Ye figured it out...

because today, like, rap is pop, right? It's, it's very commercial. But back then, when you went commercial, you were like sort of stigmatized by the underground, like, oh, you're a sellout, like, you're commercial. And he never was stigmatized. Like, he made it cool to be commercial and mainstream and pop before anybody.

100%. Yeah, because— and that was the, the dynamic we was fighting against. But it made— yeah, it was wide open because I remember when when he figured it out, it was like— it was, it was around a Tupac situation. It was the Tupac documentary, and we was watching The Resurrection, the MTV one, the one that, uh, you know, the one that he did all the vocals for. We went to see it together in a movie theater, and I remember when he left, he said, I figured it out, I could just be myself.