Why Your Fall Marketing Doesn't Work (And How To Fix It)

I would like to hit 400,000 next year. I think that's attainable with the knowledge that I have. I just need really good execution.

I know how you feel. You probably got a couple team members on your team. You're trying to keep them busy through the winter because you care about them. However, the data is showing you that the demand and that stuff's not there. I have tried in my market to market in the fall, it takes four times the amount of effort and work and door hangers to get the same result that it does in the spring rush. All right, so how can I help?

I don't know, man. I feel like this is a mindset one for me. I feel. And Jack knows how I feel too, so I feel comfortable saying all this. I feel very vulnerable right now because I'm just like doing a lot of things at once. I have no idea if it's going to work out or not. You don't know what I'm doing unless Sam has told you anything. I'm basically. I'm trying to go aggressive with winter services, and I'm doing a door hanger campaign. And today was our first day where we were going out and doing it together. I had done that with like, maybe like a 100 door hangers before. That's my first time. And I also have, have. I have four other guys hired who are doing it at the same time as well. Just doing a lot at once. And then I got engaged to my girlfriend on Halloween.

Congratulations.

Thank you.

Okay, so you got. You got four guys or six guys doing door hangers.

So it's like Jack and I are part time doing it. And so that's one person. I have three other people hired, so that's four total. And I have like another couple that wants to do it on the weekend. But I think I'm probably just gonna go through more indeed applications and get someone who can do it full time. I don't know when two people do it at the same time, it gets. It's less efficient, so. But I'm not trying to be too picky. One question that was on my mind for sure is what would you say is a good sample size for door hangers? Because the first day we put any out was yesterday. And I think about 500 got put out and I didn't get a single lead. And I think all in all, we probably put out like 500 yesterday, and then we did like 1500 today. And I know we just put them out, but I haven't got a lead yet, so.

It's just.

It makes me a little bit nervous. I'm hoping that, like, the offer isn't, like, terribly wrong or something.

What. What market are you in? Where. Where do you live?

Knoxville, Tennessee.

So you're probably similar to my weather. Ish. All right. So typically, I'd say at a bare minimum, probably 3,000 is a test. Test batch. Ideally, you want to try to get closer to 5,000. The fact that you've put out 2,000 door hangers, I mean, give it a couple of days. Sometimes people don't look at them immediately right away. Dude, I will tell you personally, and I know you've probably talked to Sam with, like, the coaching and stuff. Dude, I have tried in my market to do. To market in the fall, it takes four times the amount of effort and work and door hangers to get the same result than it does in the spring rush. So, for example, if you put out a thousand door hangers in the spring, you might get, I don't know, three to five calls. Right. So to get three to five calls in the fall, you get. You're going to need to put out four to 5,000 door hangers.

Okay. I hope that's not the case because that ruins a lot of my math on how I was going to stack cash for the spring. We do have a buttload of leaves here in my market, so fall cleanups are a big deal. I don't know what that's like for you in Texas. I assume it's not. I've seen some of your videos. I'm sure it's not the same.

It's pretty similar for. For fall cleanups and leaves. It's pretty similar. Okay. Yeah. Just. Just being honest. If that's to be true, which again, get the data first. And it sounds like you are doing the data. So you've got a team of people putting out door hangers. I mean, dude, I'd say if you don't get a single call when you get to three or four thousand door hangers and you know for sure all your people are putting them out on doors.

Mm.

Dude, I would nix that as. As quick as you can. Otherwise you're just burning money.

Okay. Yeah.

Save those door hangers, ideally. I mean, I'm sure if they all say fall cleanup on them, then you really can't save them. But take the labor force and the marketing material and the door hangers and do that same thing in the spring and you'll get so much better return.

Okay, I know that's true for sure, but I. Because I was basically, I was going off a bunch of assumptions, hoping that this was gonna work. And I just need to wait and see, I guess.

Yeah. And I like, dude, like, today's Wednesday. I mean, do what you're doing for this entire week. And I mean, unless the. Unless the timing is way off, where it's like the leaves are just starting to fall, so the demand's not that high yet. Like, that could be it too. Maybe the time. Maybe you just got the timing off. But, like, I know how you feel. You're. You probably got a couple team members on your team. You're trying to keep them busy through the winter because you care about them. That's. That's what you were as a good steward and a good business owner. What. That's what you're doing. However, from the pure business standpoint, if you're doing those door hangers and you're starting to see the data, you just put out 1500 or 2000.

2000 over two days. Yeah.

And. And you haven't got a single call.

Yeah. No.

So the data is showing you that, that, that the demand and. And that stuff's not there. Right. Like, it. We think it's there because we see leaves on the ground. But, like, the people don't want it that bad. Otherwise they would be calling you and saying, at least get it. Like, what's the price? Like, what's a quote again? I mean, a minimum of 3,000. So go put out another thousand if you still don't get a call. Dude, I wouldn't. I wouldn't keep doing that next week on Monday.

Okay. Unfortunately, I bought a bunch more door hangers, so. But if I have to just cut my losses, you know, the labor is the really expensive part, so it would be okay.

Yeah, and that's. And that's. That's the right mindset because again, you did probably buy thousands and thousands of door hangers because you wanted to ramp it up in the fall and hit the ground running and do all this stuff. Yeah, but the numbers, the data doesn't lie. And so what the data is showing you is that the demand really isn't there. We think it's there, and it is there, but the customers don't really want it that bad. So it's like, you know, you could. You could tweak the. Like, I don't even think really, even tweaking the offer is going to get even the phone ringing. I mean, the fact that you put out almost 2,000 of them now, again, people. Most people are at work Though, today. So, like, give it. Give it 24 to 48 hours. See if you get any calls. I mean, and that's fine. Like, do what you're doing for maybe all the way till Friday and then give it the weekend and assess. But like, dude, if you get. If you put out 5,000 door hangers this week and you don't get at least five calls, dude, I. I would be. Because out of those five calls, they're not all gonna book. So you might only book one or.

Two jobs, but yeah, that's literally like aid of many hundreds of dollars.

Yeah. And you're going to spend thousands of dollars in labor to try and book 10 or 15 jobs. It's just. It mathematically doesn't work. Now is the time that you would want to. You would want to nurture your. Any leads in your database with upsells. So before I always. I always tell my people that I'm coaching and stuff. Like before spending a dollar on marketing or spending any money in labor to go put door hangers out. Have. Have you been doing. Are you on copilot?

Yeah.

Okay. Are you doing personal property upsells on every single visit or are your crews doing that?

No, neither.

I would start there. If you don't have the upsells built in the system yet, do it. And then what you would want to do is again, you're going to send them one text. Hey, it's. It's. It's Ryder. I was there for your lawn service today. I noticed your bushes need to be trimmed. Would you like a free quote on every single property? You should be able to look at the bushes, the weeds, the mulch, if it needs flowers, something insect control, weed control. Build those upsells out so that way you can click the briefcase and in two clicks send them a personalized text saying, hey, it's a Ryder. I was there for your lawn service. I noticed you need weed control. I notice you need mulch. Do that. Have your crews or have your crews do that. That's where I would start first before spending a dollar on marketing because that's a more effective way. You're. You're literally telling the customer that it is a need. You need your bushes trimmed. The second thing, are. Are you doing monthly mass upsells?

Uh, yeah, as of the last month, but I wasn't doing that before. I'm not sure what I would sell in November. It would be leaves. It'd be like one time leaf cleanups, I guess.

What about like, dude, I see a lot of people get off of the bush and bed service train too early. I don't know about you. And if you're in. If you're in a market like mine, dude, there's. The bushes still need to be trimmed down here. They're still kind of growing.

Yeah, they are. They are here too. I. I guess for a lot of my existing customers, I didn't want to dip into what I felt like was going to be winter services revenue too soon. But I may be overthinking that.

Yeah, I think you're overthinking that because the winter service approach is like a package deal. So think of it like a. Like a package, right? Like, we're going to start with a monthly mower, Then we're going to go to your bushes. If they don't need it, then we're going to go to pulling weeds. If that doesn't need it, then we're going to pick up the leaves on the property. And it's like a checklist. It should be a checklist of like five to seven things on every visit. You're going to start at the top and do it for 30 to 40 minutes, however time that you have and before moving to the next one. I wouldn't overthink it too, too much. But, dude, every month upsell at least one. And so, like, yeah, like you said in November, it might be leaf cleanups. So, but even before going out and putting mass amount of door hangers out, you could test it with a mass email or a text and just say, hey, we're not offering leaf cleanups. Who would like a quote? And again, if you bl. Like if you have a thousand people in your database and you blast that text or email out and you only get five people that ask for a quote, that's a good indicator right there that, hey, I probably shouldn't have a whole team of four people going out doing door hangers because of that return. You know, most of the time in our database, we have about 3, 500 customers that have, like, at some point asked us for a quote. So when we send out an upsell that hits like, really good, dude, there's like 80, sometimes like 100 estimates on the schedule that hit really good. And. And the ones that don't really hit good, like maybe like 25, like that. That's more on the low end. So out of a thousand, you should get at least. At least 10 people asking for a quote. If not, then either the timing's off, the demand of the service is off. Okay, so I don't Mean to be the bearer of bad news, but.

No, it's okay. I just, I need to pivot to whatever reality is as quickly as possible.

Yeah.

Sam was helping me, like, do all this, but I think that he maybe gave me too much credit than I deserve for thinking of what was attainable or not, because I've been doing like, weekly calls with him and paying extra for that to try to help me, like, figure out this whole thing.

Yeah. And like, Sam's in your corner and, and, and what. What he's given you is, is probably good sound of advice, but at the.

End of the day, the market matters. You.

You have to look at the data. Data driven decisions. I, I talked to too many business owners that come to me and they're like, hey man, what should I do? Should I market here? Should I market there? And it's like, dude, you're in your own market, you're in your own elements, you're in your own season, where you're at, and you got to figure out the data for your business. Right? So, like, you're. That's what you're doing. You're gathering the data. And if the data isn't lining up properly, then, I mean, yeah, pivoting is, Is the right. Is the right move. And now I'm not saying to not, you know, continue to market or maybe change the offer up or maybe the approach, but, like, at the end of the day, again, what I have found, I've tested it multiple times, multiple different seasons, multiple timings. Anytime that I market in the fall or the winter on stuff like that, I'm spending four times the amount of money in product and wages to get one result that I would in the spring. So logically thinking, why not build the staffing properly to 4x in the spring and just pump everything out in the gold rush when the prime opportunity makes or breaks it. Like, but that, that's just my mindset and that's just what has worked well for us. Like, I know, like, and, and it's also seasonality. I know people, like, market like Christmas lights. Like, is a fall service that you do have to market. But a lot of the services that we do is just mowing bush and bed weed control leaf cleanups. But again, we don't, we don't pay for leaf cleanup marketing. We used to. I mean, I'd probably dabble in some Facebook ads, maybe like 10, 10 bucks a day, 20 bucks a day to see if anything, anybody bites. But yeah, to go out and do door hangers. Door hangers doesn't really work in our market in the fall, and I think you're kind of running in that same issue.

Interesting. Okay. You know, the other thing that's been happening to me?

What's up?

My truck has gotten towed three times in the past four days.

Oh, wow.

And it is my only truck. I only have me and one guy with me. That's the size that I'm at. And the first time, the starter went out. The second time, the. They put the starter in improperly. And now the third time, there's a different issue that I'm waiting here back on, and it's related to something electrical, and it's causing the transmission to shift into random gears when I'm driving.

So what year is it?

It's a 2015 F150 with 104,000 miles on it.

Okay. Yeah. I mean, I'm sorry to hear that. That's rough.

I know. And unfortunately, that's, like, a small percentage of the truck issues I've had all year long. But that's a story for a different time. It's just. It's a little bit. It's a little bit hard to stay positive, though, when that is happening to me, because there's not really anything I could have done, I don't think.

Yeah, that's. That's tough, dude. Do you have enough, like, funds to, like, potentially, like, that probably doesn't make sense to keep that truck for next season. Right. Like, you. You probably don't want to keep that truck throughout the busy season next spring with all the issues that you've been having already with it. Right. It's just gonna.

I hope so. I hope I can. This is. I hope this is just a fluke, but the earlier truck issues I was talking about was with a different vehicle. I've already swapped vehicles once this year. Oh. So hopefully it'll leave.

Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was gonna say if all of those issues were occurring anytime that we. We have a truck that's constantly over and over and over again, like, 800 here, 300, 1500 here, 2, 000 here, it's like, there just comes a point where it's like, man, maybe we should just sell the thing and get a. Get a better one, you know? But if you had already done that. Yeah. Hopefully this is just kind of like a fluke. And you know what? Yeah. Yeah, I think. I think that would be good. Another suggestion rider that I would do, like, once you get through this off season, is, like, right before spring rush, when you start getting busy Again, what I like to do is bring the truck and be proactive, bring it to the mechanic. And I, and I tell them, I say, I want you to shake this thing down. I need this thing running for the next six months. I don't want to see you for six months. So if there's a belt.

So I always like to bring it to the mechanic, like right before the spring rush and have them shake it down. Just check the hoses, like, do preventive, like if there's something that you think you know. And I talk to them too. And that's why it's so important to find a good mechanic, because they're going to. Yeah, this is broken. This broken, this broken. And then I'd say, look like, what's, what's the priorities to make sure that this thing's good for the next six months. And normally they'll be like, hey, you got to do one in three. You could probably wait on two. And then I'm like, cool, let's do one in three. I'll pay the thousand bucks, 1500 bucks, two grand, whatever it is. That way I don't have to hopefully worry about it all through the spring and I can make money. You know, five years ago, I was out in the field every single day, knocking on doors, pushing mowers, and bootstrapping my business from the ground up. Today I am not in the field and rarely ever in the office. I work on the business and not in it. And that didn't happen by luck. We put the systems in place and now we're handing them over to you Inside our school community. You will gain access to all of the systems that we've used to allow this to happen. Click the link in the description below.

Bullets is not working like I wanted it to. And that really my whole goal with that was just finish the winter with a certain amount of cash and so that I could use that for the spring. But given my circumstance, I'll try to give you the best. I'll try to relay my information, like my circumstances the best I can to you and see what you would say for me next year. I have been, I've been on lawn care web design since September, so the SEO should be starting to get better by the spring. I did a bunch of Google review crunching. I asked all my friends and family. I have over 100 now. That's like the online presence in SEO. But I don't have that much cash. Like I would say that I have. I think I have like $15,000 in cash right now, and obviously I need to use some of that to make it through the winter.

So the goal is to get as much money as you can to use in the spring rush. Right? Is that how I'm hearing it?

Yeah. Because I'd like to grow as much as I can. I feel like I didn't really get involved in these coaching groups until a few months ago. And I was trying to do it basically all on my own, me and YouTube for the first year I was doing this. So I feel like there's a lot of ground to make up.

So do you. Have you done the 50 free business listings websites and posted your company on there?

I have not.

So that would be your homework in the next seven days.

Okay.

Go to ChatGPT, ask it for top 50 free business listing websites. Make sure your business is on every single one of them. Make sure the name, address and phone number is completely the same as it is like identical. Do not have it different. Don't. Don't put like the phone number. It all. It all needs to be exactly the same as it is on your Google my business.

Okay.

It lines up exactly identical.

Is that for SEO?

Yeah. Okay. And then. So do that. That'll definitely help. Now, as far as the cash crunch goes, have you thought about doing prepays for the year to pull cash upfront?

I have thought about that. The only hesitation for me is like managing it well. That's really the only downside.

Right. Well, what. What services do you offer? Like what. What would you offer for a prepay?

I don't have any type of full maintenance package. The only service that I could prepay would be mowing based on the amount of the average amount of visits. And if there was a real. There was a drought and they had to skip visits, like, it would be credited on their account. Bush trimming and mulch is really a la carte in my market. I'm not sure if that exactly answers the question.

Okay, so what's your average long cut price?

60 bucks.

And do you do. Do you offer biweekly all year or is it weekly and bi weekly?

Weekly, April through June and then weekly and bi weekly throughout the rest of the year.

Okay. Do you know how many visits in a year one customer will get on average?

33 or 34.

Okay, cool. Yeah, that, that's good. So that's 20, 40. That's $60 a cut times 34 visits. You could offer a 10% discount which would get them basically three and a half free cuts. So the way that you would pitch that is before maybe the end of the year, or at least maybe before whatever the mowing season starts next year, because you need the cash upfront. It's very, very important. You could send out a mass text and email, preferably text, because that has a higher deliverability rate. And you're on copilot and just say, hey, we are now taking prepay. You get. Get three. You could say three or four free mows. When you prepay with us and secure your spot for the 2026 season, you get 10% off all of your mowing, which would get you basically four free cuts or close to it. And then what you would do on that is just kind of, you know, once somebody's like, hey, yeah, what's the. That, Then you send them an estimate. And then in the disclaimer. In the disclaimer portion, you just put, you know, hey, if, like, if we need to skip for a drought or if there's too much rain one week, like, that stuff's really not refundable to save you the headache of the admin time. Just know when you prepay, we're gonna be there all year. We're gonna make sure your lawn looks good. There might be a week we skip here and there for the most part. You know, if it's a drought or it's too rainy for us to come out, obviously we're not gonna, like, we don't want to damage the lawn. Just put that disclaimer in there. That way it saves you. If anybody gives you kickback. And then. Yeah, dude, if you get. How many. How many mowing customers do you have?

I have about 40 recurring mowing customers. And that's. I really. My revenue has been a 50. 50 split between recurring and one time this year.

Okay, so even if you get five customers, dude, just five of them to prepay for the year.

10,000 bucks, right?

Yeah, dude, that's. That's 10 grand. You can that now. You can take that money and pump it out into marketing in, you know, early February, March, like, and you should offer that not just to your 40 mowing customers, but also the other, like, hopefully leads that you have in the database. Like, offer that to all of them. Hey, you know, we're doing a prepaid discount. Secure your spot for the 2026 season and get free cut. Free for four free cuts. And then that would. That would pull a lot of your cash forward. So that way you would have the money to Again and again. Here's where most people get hung up on. They take that $10,000 and they go buy a truck. Not good. Or they go buy a mower or they go buy equipment. That money needs to go to get more customers. That money needs to go into Facebook ads, it needs to go into door hangers, it needs to go into marketing to get more customers. And that way you can multiply that 10 times over and get hopefully, you know, 50 extra customers. You know, if you $10,000, dude, you should be easily able to get another 50 customers with that.

Okay.

At, at 2040 a pop. So not. So you take that 10,000 and you turn into 102,000. Yeah, 50 times 2040.

So if I wanted to get an additional 300,000, try to get 15 people to prepay and put all that towards marketing, you mean? Because I'd like to, I'd like to hit, I would like to hit 400,000 next year. I think that's attainable with the knowledge that I have. I just need really good execution and good timing for things. And I've talked with Sam about that too. So as long as, like, as long as you're telling me where there's a will, there's a way I can jive with that.

Yeah, dude, it's all honestly, like, it's, it's the biggest untapped resource that most people don't tap into. And what's funny is like, I tapped into this in my first, like two or three years in business. Then we got away from it because as we grew, it became kind of an admin admin nightmare of like managing the prepays because like when they cancel mid season, it's kind of a problem or if they turn out to be a pain in the butt customer, it's like, dude, here's your money back. Like, I don't even want you, you know, in a nice way. Like, we're just not a good fit for you. Like, you go your way, here's your money back. It's cool. We actually are going back to prepays this next year because we, we want to do massive growth. And what you're doing is you're pulling a lot of that money up for front and that way you can, you know, deploy it in the right way. And so to get to. So you're going to do what, a hundred thousand this year? So you're saying you want to get to 300,000, 400 next year. Okay, so you want to basically 4x the business. Yes. It's a good goal. It's doable. Yeah, you're going to need a lot more than just five prepays. So I would even look at maybe packaging some kind of bush and bed service together. Are you doing mainly, like, HOA residents? Residents, yeah.

But that's almost inconsequential. Like, people don't really get hit with fines here. The HOAs are more just like community for the neighborhoods that we have here. Yeah.

Do you have any bush and bed recurring services, like a monthly bush trimming customer?

I had, like, I had like four of them because I didn't really try to sell it that much. But. And it's very. It's. That's like one of the hardest things. I've been trying to figure out how I could even estimate because it varies so much from property to property, but I'm sure it could be done.

So here's what I would recommend, Ryder, is when you go out and do the initial estimate, like somebody calls you and says, hey, I need my bushes trimmed. Cool. You go out, you trim it, or you quote it for a one time, currently, right?

Yes.

Add another additional line item on the quote for recurring monthly bush trimming. So what, like, on the initial cleanup, it'll be 300 bucks, right. To get all of it cleaned up because it's all overgrown right now. But once it gets under control, the recurring cleanup might be only 98 bucks a month. To where? Like, we just come out once a month, we trim the bushes, and you're only trimming a few inches anyway because not much is growing. And after four weeks now we do a six week visit. We say every month and a half because that's just the sweet spot that we have found after about a month and a half that need to be trimmed again. But I would. I would add that to your initial estimates so that way you can start to book more of those recurring jobs and. Or if you are doing the jobs and you complete them, ring the doorbell, do the walk. When you do the walkthrough with the customer to get approval, that's when you upsell them and say, hey, now that this is cleaned up, you just spent 350 bucks today. I can get you on a monthly package. It's 97 bucks a month, 98 bucks a month, whatever you want to call it. Normally, like a third of the price of an initial cleanup because it's way less work. Come out every four to six weeks. And then you don't ever have to worry about your bushes getting long because we'll be here to clean it up for you.

Does that actually reduce their spending over time? Because I struggle, like, trying to conceptualize that because Sometimes it seems like it's a premium service because we're coming more often, and other times it seems like it's saving them money because it doesn't get, this doesn't turn into a wreck. You know what I mean?

I think, I think what it's doing is it's, it's taking it from a one time cleanup job of 3, $5,400 in the spring, like twice a year. So you're going to have a 350 cleanup in the spring, 350 in the fall. And what you're doing is you're, you're basically watering it down to where it's like every month for only like 97 bucks. Right? Like, and, and then in the winter when it's not growing, they can skip. Like, you know, when they get the text, says, hey, we're coming out for your monthly bush trimming. If it doesn't need it, just let us know, skip and we'll just be back next month. We're not going to charge you extra if it's not really growing. So they're pro. You're probably not going to be there much in December, January cleaning up the bushes. But at least like the other nine months out of the year, you're there once a month. I, I think it might be a little bit more money. But the, I think, I think you, and this is me coming from a very like, humble place as a coach. I think somebody like you, Ryder, would not want to pay for the monthly service because for you, you have more time on your hands than you do money. Right?

Yeah.

Whereas people like me and other people that value their time. I value my time way more than money, dude. Like, I just want my time back. I don't want to clean up my dog waste at the property. I don't want to mow my bush, my, my lawn. I don't want to trim my bushes. Dude, we have a, we have a house cleaning people that come. I don't even want to vacuum when I get home, bro. Like, I, I, I go to work, I work very hard, we make great money. I come home and I don't want to do that stuff. And so that's the type of client you're trying to attract, is the people that are very working class people. Maybe they're pilots, maybe they're business people, maybe they're lawyers and they're just very career driven and they make a lot of money and what they want is their time back. And so for them, you're giving them more value by being there Every month by maintaining the bushes. So that way they don't have to call you or even think about it. You just, you just set them up on the schedule and you just.

I see what you're saying. Yeah.

You're not marketing to you, to you. You're marketing to the clients that value their time more. And so whether it's a little bit more money or not, it, to them, it like for me it doesn't, like, I don't really care. Like I would rather just have my house cleaned and my yard cleaned up. Right. I don't want to have to call every week or once a month or in the spring and fall and schedule anything. Like I just, just give me on the schedule. As long as it's not like an arm and a leg, I don't really care, you know. And, and again, for me, I'm, I, I don't, I, I'm not trying to find the cheapest company. Like I'm not trying to find the cheapest house cleaning company. I just want a house cleaning company that will show up every single month consistently and be reliable and do good work.

Yes.

And that's, and that's what you're, you're selling. That, that's the value that you're, you're selling.

Gotcha. So would you have, would you have everything be recurring as much as possible? Because it sounds, it sounds like that's what you're saying.

Basically, yeah, 1,000%. I would try to push all the customers to recurring as much as you humanly, physically, possibly can. And the more that you can get that. And like you just told me earlier in this coaching call, like you're at a 50, 50 ratio. So half of your revenue is recurring, the other half is one time projects. The closer you get to more recurring where it's like a, where it's like an 80% recurring and only 20, 20% one time. That's where you can start to take yourself out of the equation because you have consistent work, you have consistent things coming in. You don't have to rally a fall team and get all these door hangers out. You know what I mean? To where you're trying to like fill the schedule now that all the one time stop booking. Like you have that consistent recurring schedule with these recurring customers. And so that's, I would definitely, if I were you, build a package around a bush. Trimming bed service, reoccurring package, maybe monthly or every month and a half, something like that. You can even do like mulch packages. Spring, spring and fall mulch I would definitely lean, lean into that for sure.

Yeah, I, I'm pretty obsessed with trying to figure out like how my market works and how I want my ideal customer to be. I think about that a lot. The problem is I just don't have a lot of experience or data to work with. That's definitely not the conception that I had in my mind. But yeah, I would, I would love as much to be recurring as possible. I looked at things though with my limited knowledge now I've not, I've not been able to find a way that makes it smooth because of some of the crazy seasonal changes. I don't, not sure how to like prorate that over the whole year, but I think it's doable.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Does that kind of make sense?

It does, yeah. And, and, and dude, that's normal. Like dude, you've got 40 customers, you're in your first year, you just did 100k this year. You don't have the volume yet, you don't have the reps yet. But you're, your mindset is right. You're seeking coaching, you're seeking mentorship, you're trying to grow, you're trying to get better. And anybody that's trying to get better, it will be leagues ahead of anybody else out there that like is just trying to figure it out on their own. You know what I mean? And so I applaud you for obviously being in the community, asking questions, being, being inside. Because dude, I'm telling you, if you are that diligent in trying to understand and learn your market and look at your data and track your data. So like also if you're like, are you, are you tracking your time on every single job?

Yeah.

Good. So you have that data now in the off season you can go back and look at all of those one time projects and see how long every single job took and get you a good decent idea of like, okay, this is what it would take if it's kind of overgrown when they really need it. Well it's definitely not going to be that long. So normally we see like a third of the time. So like if the normal job would take like two or three hours, it, it's normally like a one hour minimum. You know, like a lot of times you can as like if you're there for recurring bush trimming and it's not overgrown, dude, our guys are getting in and out in under probably an hour. Like most jobs are like one hour minimum. So you just, you just come up with a package of like, okay, for one hour job, they're going to have one or two bags of disposal, minimal clippings. Like it's. It's pretty standard. And then. Yeah, and then you just build kind of a package around that and, and start to push people towards that recurring bush embed service. And then what I was going to say to that, to package that even further, which you're probably not there yet, but you could also do prepays on those two. But I think to wrap up this coaching call, I think if you tap into your resources of prepaying for the year, especially for mowing this year, for not only just your 40 recurring mowing clients, but also all of your leads in the database, dude, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to get at least five, if not maybe 10 people to prepay the mowing season and get four free cuts. Like, to me, that makes sense. Do good work. And they've already used you this past season and they know they're gonna. They're not moving anytime soon. Like, why not just prepay, forget about it and then you're good. And then you get four free cuts, so.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But.

Okay, cool. That sounds good. Thanks for your time. I booked another call when I booked this one originally, so I'm not sure exactly when that is. I think it. I don't think it's next week. I think it's the week after. So I will see you again then.

Sounds good. And then preferably again as a good coach. The homework will be, will be, will be finished. You'll. 50 business listings, dude, it's a grind. All right, it's a grind, but I'm telling you, it will help you grow your business. It will help the SEO, it'll help the leads, everything.