Writing Non Fiction Stories with Communication Consultant Patricia Crisafulli MFA

We have Patricia Crisafulli. She is an award-winning, best-selling author of— well, we got 2 books going on, but the main book that we got going on is The Secrets of Oneeta Harbor. And she really launched the Oneeta Harbor mystery series as a part of her MFA that she got at the ripe age of 52 years old. And we're going to talk about that, of what it was like to really kind of intertwine nonfiction with fiction and the ideas of the mystery of life. And of course, how to really overcome those obstacles, because I heard you say at 52, and here I am thinking about my life. Yes, we're going to talk about that, about what it's like to overcome all those voices of negativity and fear. And Christopher Lee is also a communication social And she loves being able to combine her love of writing, her love of creativity into her work at her day job too. And she is also an award-winning communication woman. So we're going to have a communication conversation. So this conversation is for you if this is what you are looking to do. So hey, Patricia.

Hi, thank you so much. That's exactly right. We're going to be talking about talking and talking about writing.

Right. That's exactly what it is because that's where it starts, right? It starts from a conversation first. A conversation is exactly what makes us humans, right?

And storytelling is as old as human civilization. You know, the elders gathered people around to explain how the universe worked. I like to think that the wise women gathered people around to share generational wisdom. We are still doing that, except now we do it it in podcasts and in books and in blogs because life experience is rich. It's very personal, but it's universal. And, you know, in my areas of writing, whether it's communications consulting or it's fiction writing, these are the, the absolute themes of life that are completely integrated in every person's existence.

Absolutely, absolutely. And so now I kind of— I want you to go all the way back, all the way back, since it's such a blessing in disguise, right, that you literally get to live your dream out loud. But take us back to the moment where you knew this was not it, you know, when you were just kind of saying no to your dreams. What was that about?

Oh, there's so many times along the way. That's one good thing about being— I right now, okay, I have to say it so it's not a negative. I am now 60.

Ooh.

And I have said no to my dreams so many times along the way. This little voice, this little scared voice, no, it's too hard. No, it's not for me. Or no, I can't. But luckily there was a bigger, deeper voice going, well, heck yes. If not you, then who? And what are you waiting for? So those kind of battling voices. But I knew I wanted to write from the time that I was 7 years old. you know, I always told myself stories. I grew up out in the country in northern New York State, and there weren't a lot of other kids to play with, so I played with the voices in my head, which, well, you know, luckily it turned me into a writer as opposed to something else. But I can remember swinging on my swing and telling myself a story, and then I said, well, I, you know, now that I know how to spell like 6 whole words in kindergarten, I, you know, I wanted to see if I could put these thoughts into something on paper and tried that at 7 and wrote this big epic that was 4 sentences long. Clearly, there was something missing in the translation. But I fell in love with writing. Kept it up all my life. But, you know, how do you make a living as a writer when I didn't know anyone who did this? I didn't have role models. Well, you know, you find them in the world. You know, as a little girl, I read Laura Ingalls Wilder. If she could do it, then I could do it. I didn't know her. But I have these books that I loved and somebody else wrote them. So surely we can. And again, this is a message for now. If you don't have someone in your immediate life who can be that coach or role model, my goodness, the internet is here. We're all here. People will support you. You can find someone. So that's like lesson number one. Over the, you know, the path that it took me into was journalism, more specifically into business journalism, which seemed like a very far departure from my my love of wanting to create stories. But that's— I kept saying, well, it will— at least I'm writing. Well, at least. And yes, and I learned tremendous amounts, started a business. I, I actually loved journalism. What I loved was finding out about people and telling their stories. And, and even though it was in the business setting, I loved ideas and I loved entrepreneurship. So then came the crossroads of my own life of what I'm going to do next. At the time, I was 40. and said, I know I'm going to become— I didn't know the term communications consultant. I'm like, I can write, and I bet you people need people like me in business. Complete fluke, had no business plan, just, you know, talked to like 3 people, started talking to people. Suddenly clients came to me. 22 years later, my entire business has been built on word of mouth with very large companies, where I am like an adjunct to their corporate communications department. In fact, it's grown so much that my son works with me as my business partner now, which is very funny. 29, he's been with me for 5 years, and he brings this whole other, you know, vibe and generation. So you just never know what you're starting when you're starting. But through this through line on the business side, right, the dream of telling stories, of writing stories, of capturing them in fiction never left my heart. And I kept trying to explain it away. Oh, it's a hobby. Oh, it's a passion that, you know, is maybe not worth pursuing or it's really hard. And it is all of those things. But I was like, well, but, but why? But why can't I pursue this? Why, why, why do I deny myself this dream? So at 52, I went back to school at Northwestern. We were living in Chicago at the time for a 5-year program.

Wow.

of really learning the craft of fiction writing. Because I was getting feedback like, you know, potential good, but, you know, that but, that thing that— and I wanted to find out what that but was and get over the but to make it, oh, and you can. And obviously, so, you know, you went through it, developed my creative thesis, brought it to New York. They said, well, what you've actually written is a mystery. And I was like, Really? Because again, I had— I thought it was something else. They said, well, do you see what you're doing here in the demand, the marketplace, and that, that, that, that? Learn the genre. Did that. Poof. Thank you, Woodhall Press. I am the proud debut novelist for them with The Secrets of Oneida Harbor, which launches the Oneida Harbor Mystery Series. Mystery, of course, is a very popular genre. Why does it appeal to me? especially as an entrepreneur and storyteller, what we were talking about earlier. Mystery is like, yes, it's the whodunit, right? You know, who committed the crime? Why did the body end up in the library lawn in one case? But there's another mystery. There's other mysteries. There's clues. And there's, in my case, I always have artifacts in my stories that somehow parallel the present and the past. That exists in the heart of all of our stories. There are clues to the next chapter of your life and in mine. There are things that we know. Maybe it's a family story, or maybe it's something culturally about, you know, how my family came to the United States, or maybe it's something about an artist we admire. We've seen this painting or heard this music. Who is that? Who, who, who? Whenever we ask the word who, it's a mystery, whether it's big or little, and it's inviting us into a story that we need to tell ourselves. And I think in pursuing who, because the answer is going to be me or you or us, in pursuing that, we give ourselves permission to find our passions, tap into them, and open doors for ourselves. And for each other.

I was literally about to add, because what I was hearing too, when we do find the who, we also find the what and why, right?

That's right. I do think it starts with who, right? Because the who is the identity. But we do find the what, and we do find the why and how. If it's a whodunit, how do they do it? Or how can I do it? I mean, these These questions have been pulling at us as human beings for time immemorial. And I— we do ourselves a disservice if we turn our back on mystery. Because what is it? It's that engagement with what wants to lead us deeper into history, mystery, and belonging.

History, mystery, and belonging. The same thing that can be applied to a novel is the same thing that can be applied to life. I love it. I love it. I love it. So I want to go back to literally who, right? Because like you say, like, you get on this journey and it's not a journey that you fully take alone, right? So who would you say were those pivotal people there in those pivotal moments? Or just people, even if it was programs or books, but name, name something that really was just pivotal for you in those moments.

Absolutely. You know, from the time I was a little girl, my mother read to me. She's been gone for many, many years, but she read to me. She gave me a love of stories. My 2 sisters, my sister Jeannie, who is such a devoted big sister, loving everything. My late sister Bernadette, who literally her last words to me earlier this year were, tell me about the book. What's going on? I mean, like, they cheered for me. And fellow writers on the journey. My friend Laura, my friend Sam, my dear agent Delia, my wonderful neighbor Ella. I mean, people who read and discuss stories and live stories with you or with whatever the passion is. For me, it was these fellow travelers who aren't just saying, oh, you're great, I love you, because that only sounds So far, we also need those— I wonder if you might have thought of this, who when you ask for feedback will give you feedback. In this case, for me, I needed to go to the source, and that was the MFA program at Northwestern. It was tough. The first time I went through an MFA workshop, Professor Goldie Goldbloom, an amazing novelist, And, uh, and a fabulous teacher. And she had, she had a very, very supportive workshop, but it was all about kind of digging into not only what's working but what isn't working. So that night I sat in my car, and I'd already been published. I already was actually a bestselling author in nonfiction. I sat in my car. It was kind of like, uh, what just happened? It was so intense, and I thought it was awful.

Mm-hmm.

But then I read my classmates' notes who were like, Oh, no, this didn't work for me. And no. And then somebody wrote, but I really, really liked it. That kind of— it's like 2 runners when you're— I love to run too, but when you're running or you're biking or you're rowing or 2 swimmers, I wish I were a better swimmer. Like you keep pace with the other person, not as competitive, but like sometimes you're literally making way for them. But you're— each person lifts the other one into stride. And I think when we do that, especially as women, In whatever our pursuits, it's, let me give you some feedback. Let me tell you what my impression was on this. Did you ever think about that? Like, we give each other energy that's not just like, oh, it's fabulous, it's wonderful, and you're perfect. But no, it's also that I believe in you and I love you, and I really wanted you to know this one thing that left me questioning. And then the person goes, oh my gosh, whether it's for a pitch, to an investor, or it's a plotline, or it's tasting a recipe in a restaurant, could be the difference between very good and excellent and get through the door. The person I, though, had to make the biggest truce with and actually befriend was my inner critic.

That's what I was waiting for. That's the version I was waiting for. Yes, absolutely. I think that's, that's where it really goes. Like, you can have The family, the friends, the people in, in the programs, the creative program, the leadership program, the financial program. But what about you? Inner you, right?

Oh, I have an inner critic who is just relentless. You know, you know, I tried for years and so many coaching and therapy to quiet my inner critic, and she knows exactly where to get me. Kind of like, you know, when I got a bestselling book in nonfiction, said, well, but it's not fiction. Isn't that your dream? She's got this snarky voice and it always gets me. And finally, I couldn't get her to shut up. So what I discovered was I had to make friends with my inner critic, which is not to take everything that inner voice says as gospel. But to sift through it and say, is there a bit of wisdom here? So when my inner critic was talking to me about, you know, like, it gets me in the vulnerable point. Well, how are you going to promote this novel now that— You're right. I needed to make sure that I was doubling down on social media presence and getting onto podcasts and doing— like, I answered the inner critic with positive steps. And I thought, well, I didn't take the criticism, but I looked for the wisdom and the what I could do next. You know, who she was talking to was me. And it's just me talking to me. And found that the sense of panic and anxiety that my inner critic used to generate with me turned into a sense of I can figure this out. And that was a big breakthrough. It took 61 years, but it was saying, what is this inner critic? Why is this— why is this voice of anxiety churning up? Can I answer it? Is it valid? Is anything valid? And if it is, by answering that, I can actually do myself a favor. And guess what? You know, the panic has gone down. I mean, I'm sure my inner critic will find something else to talk about. But again, and it's like, thank you for sharing. No, you don't get to run the whole program, but I will take that suggestion.

Absolutely. That part right there, just really being able to kind of listen intently and know when to say no too. Yeah, I love that.

Yes, exactly right. Exactly right. When you say you're wrong on this one, but in answering it, I'm answering my self-doubt. I'm answering my anxiety to say, No, no, I got this one. Or if there is something more I can do to say, you know what, that's a doggone good idea. I am going to move on this. Not in the reactive way, but to think about it. What should I do? And to strategize.

Perfect. Perfect. Perfect.

I love that. And no surprise, of course, because we write what we know.

Yeah.

You know, in The Secrets of Oneida Harbor, my protagonist Gabriella, who has got all the issues that we all talked about, an inner critic, and she's burned out, and she's not living her dream. She's divorced from her passion, or so she thinks. And she's living the most ordinary life. She's had— she sees her life as defeat at the time.

Mm-hmm.

And I thought women readers especially, because that's probably my key reader, would resonate with this because I think we've all felt like this. Like, wait a minute. I woke up and it was like, where did my dream go? And that's literally where she feels.

Yeah.

And so in infusing so much of my own life journey, which I think is, again, is universal to so many of us, giving her a way to rediscover her passion, reconnect with her passion. But it's not— and I don't want to give any spoilers— it's not where she thought it would be. In the who and the how and the where and belonging, that mystery actually leads her deeper into her own life.

Mm-hmm.

So again, the vehicle is, is the mystery of Anita Harbour. It's the genre mystery, which is very popular these days. But I think it's also metaphor for our own journeys, our hero-winner journeys to what is being asked of us when the ordinary and the extraordinary intersect, as they do in big and small ways in everyone's life, and including in the fictional characters around us.

Absolutely, absolutely. Put that right out my mouth. I love it, I love it, I love it. Now, where can they, our listeners, find the book?

Oh well, you can find the book, and it's called The Secrets of Oneida Harbor. You can find it at your bookstore, and if they don't have it, you can ask them to order it because bookstores love to order books. And it is also in the usual online places. And if you'd like I can share with you some links that where they can find out more about it, and they can find that my website is um www of course faith f a i t f a i t h hope h o p e and a n d fiction f i c t i o n dot com faithhopeandfiction.com uh it's a free e literary site you can find me you can find other writers and you can also find I love it.

Yes, so we'll definitely put the links in the show notes so that all the listeners have to do is just click on it and go get it.

Yes, thank you.

Good.

But you know, in, in final words, be the hero of your own story. Your story is always being written. It is never too late to rewrite, and it's never too late to start a new story. I did. You can. And It's the never-ending tale that will continually inspire us.

Perfect, perfect, perfect. Now we're ready for the, uh, fun segment that I love to ask, um, almost all of my guests. Are you ready?

I'm ready.

Okay, so although I know the mission is to help people discover and embrace their story of their lives and, you know, uncover the extraordinary with the extraordinary, what do you want your legacy to be?

Oh, you know, I want my legacy to be that I helped someone see new possibilities in their own life, whether that's somebody who knows me as a friend or a relative or my own child or my new daughter-in-law, or it's somebody who read something I wrote. I want someone to say, well, you know, I never thought about that before. I guess I can. If I can contribute in any way to someone saying, well, I guess I can do that, or I can try, I will have served a purpose on this planet.

Powerful. Profound and powerful. I love it. And now the second question is, if you could travel anywhere, where would you travel to?

Wow. You know, I have to say, I was going to come up with something really, really, you know, exciting, but I would— someplace I would travel back to. I would go back to Italy. I would go back to Florence and Siena where I did research for this book, and I would walk among the, the generations of artists and artisans, the masters and also the common people, like the lives that you see that The traces of those lives. And, and I'm half Italian, so it's, it's like, it's ancestral. I would definitely go back to Italy and feel those cobblestones under my feet and know that I am just the latest in a whole lot of generations walking those cobblestones.

So perfect and so timely because I just, I just knew you were going to mention that, someplace to go back to. I just knew that. It's natural, intuitive as a creative. Yay! Okay, and now we're gonna wrap up the conversation with also more links. Where can people connect with you everywhere online?

You know, the best place is LinkedIn for my business writing. Just find me, it's under Patricia Crisafulli. Um, you'll find me on LinkedIn.

Wait, wait, wait, how do you spell Crisafulli?

C-R-I-S-A-F-U-L-L-I. U-L-L-I, um, and it's Patricia, P-A-T-R-I-C-I-A. Um, and then my personal writing is my website faithhopeandfiction.com. But between those 2 places, you will find me and, uh, and bits of my story because I don't hide anything. I don't hide my business life. I writing life or my writing life or my business life. I thought I had to keep them separate, but here's what I found. People are people. Readers are readers. And I was shocked at the number of my business clients, investment bankers to entrepreneurs, said, you write a mystery? Ooh, I want to know about that. So we don't have to hide parts of our lives. We don't have to hide that we paint or sing or dance or garden or cook. Or create or don't, or bicycle or hike or do Ironman or anything. It's all beautiful. It's all good when we can be fully ourselves, whatever that looks like. We are not only being authentic, but we are tapping into deeper power that helps us create more ideas and share more and give more to this world.

You couldn't have said it better. That's a perfect place to drop the mic. Thank you, Patricia, for being the guest on the See Life Through the Side Eye.

Thank you. This was a joy. Wonderful.

Thanks.