Hormones & Heartbreak | Healing Holistically After Divorce or Motherhood

Hello, heroines, and welcome back for another interview today. We've been so busy today, we've had 3 interviews in the group today, so it's either feast or famine. So, um, and talking about famine, we're going to talk about health, we're going to talk about hormonal health specifically, um, and that's why I wanted to bring in Manal because that is her area of expertise, and I felt there was a nice link between what we go through as women going through either a divorce or some sort of uncoupling and our health. So let's see where this discussion goes. Manal, how are you?

I'm doing well, thank you for having me, Alex.

Oh, my pleasure. So let's start with the basics. Uh, tell us a little bit about who Manal is.

So I'm Manal, and so from Bimbo Wellness I'm born in New Zealand, so I'm a New Zealand-born Gujarati Indian, and I live in Auckland, New Zealand. I'm a qualified naturopath and food scientist, and I'm a mum of a 23-month-old, and I'm passionate about nature, natural ways of healing, and natural ways of living.

And how did you get into that? Like, tell us more.

And so I was in a really busy, like, job role, and things getting really stressful. So I career changed, and so I went to go get my degree in naturopathy, which focuses on natural medicine. And from there, I started my own business after that.

Okay. And what were some of the maybe some, some of the things that you either thought about or might have worried about or might have kind of influenced how you got into business for yourself.

Um, so I had a good support system before I went into business for myself, so some concerns for me would be my financial security, being able to support myself financially. And also just being able to make the business work, knowing that running your own business is not a kind of like a quick— won't happen fast necessarily, but it might take time.

So when you and I were chit-chatting before, um, we talked about pivoting, right? Because you've pivoted, I've pivoted. Um, so originally you were more focused on health as a global topic, if I understood that correctly. But you've shifted more into this hormonal piece around health. So tell us about that transition.

And so I've shifted from helping women with weight loss to helping women with hormonal wellness, and that shift has happened with me getting some business coaching and delving into a niche that's really needed because women of this— like, I don't think I understood the seriousness of how women can suffer with hormonal conditions. And I personally myself haven't had super radical hormonal issues, so for me the worst thing I think was having period pain or going through postpartum and having hormonal changes, and that caused a big huge, um, kind of— I had my first big mood swings at that phase. And so I don't think I really understood that until actually looking into it a bit more. And so yeah, I feel like this is where I'm meant to be at the moment. I'm in my late 30s going on to my early 40s, and so this might be something I need to learn about myself. Yeah, but I can definitely help women with these hormonal changes.

So I imagine having a baby messes with your hormones in a major way. Um, so what were some of the changes that you experienced as you went through having your little one? Hmm.

And so it was mainly all good, but what I noticed was extreme mood swings. And so I could— so some little things that wouldn't bother me usually they were— they ended up being big things. So, okay, so I just took them really seriously. And sometimes they were, you know, they need to be dealt with, but I think I reacted quite— like, I had a high reactive reactivity to those events postpartum.

And what helped?

What helped for me was just understanding that this was just— this was hormonal. And that my hormones were fluctuating. And having— being really honest with my husband about how, how I was feeling and communicating about what was going on, just letting him know, you know, there's certain things I couldn't tolerate at that time. So having the open and honest communication with my husband was really important, especially for our relationship during that big change.

Yeah, I can imagine. I can imagine. And so how, how did the changes you made in terms of dealing with, you know, the hormonal fluctuations of being pregnant— how, how did you help him navigate that aside from just talking about what was going on? Was there anything else that supported a healthy cocoon for you guys?

Mm, I think for me, I have my own spiritual program that I go to, which is really important because it helps keep me serene and to help me just manage my emotions better. But also, during pregnancy, I had quite a— I was really tired and I couldn't do all the things that I wanted to do. And so my husband thought I was being lazy, but I was not. I just physically couldn't do things because I was growing a baby and it was taking all my energy. And I had to get support from a community self-management program here in Auckland.

Awhiwhaea.

Just to be around people who were suffering from chronic conditions so that I felt like I was understood there. I felt like I was heard. I felt like people could really resonate with what I was going through.

You know, the more I talk to women, the more I see and I understand the importance of community. And this is one of the reasons why I do this work is because when you're going through something that really kind of messes with you, like growing a baby is going to mess with you, going through a divorce is going to mess with you. Right? People that haven't gone through it don't see it or don't understand it. And that's why having that community cocoon, I guess, is the word. And it's not the word that I want to use, but it's the word that's coming to my mind. Container is hugely, hugely important. So In the work that you do, how do you incorporate community in to, to bring a different level of support to, to your women?

For me personally, because that's like, I recommend them getting support in any ways that suits, in a way that resonates with them. So I'll offer them suggestions about things that they could try. So, and depending on what they're struggling with and what they're needing help and support with, and it's up to, it's up to that person to actually, to actually take on that suggestion.

Yeah. So what are some of the things that you have seen work for the women you've worked with?

Um, I think for me it's about actually taking personal responsibility for your own health. And being willing to make— being willing to change and do things differently and to really put the focus back on yourself.

Yeah, and we know how difficult that is as women, right? Because we want to do for everybody else and we're always the last one on— last man on the totem pole. So how much resistance— because women who are going through hormonal changes might have or could have some of the same resistance to taking care of themselves or to, um, prioritizing their health before prioritizing everything else. Um, what are some of the, the mindset blocks that you've encountered with your women that might actually be similar to what somebody coming out of a divorce might be facing?

Mm, I think what I've seen is that women are too busy or constantly doing to actually take time to slow down, to put the focus back on themselves. And so creating that space for themselves to be able to make change, so making time for those healthy habits and changing what they're already doing can be some mind shift, mind shift, kind of mindset blocks. I think a big one is addressing the emotional causes as well and things that are going on on a deeper level, not just say doing the physical things. It's important to address mind, body, soul. So if you've been through trauma or something really as a child, or you're still suffering with those effects, it's important to find a space where you can address those so that you can actually take care of yourself holistically.

So, you know, when people think about weight loss or hormones, or, you know, the first thing that comes to mind is the physical, right? Because that's the easy thing to fix. But very often there are underlying emotional or whatever. I have somebody that I know who talks about mind bugs, right? And so we have these gremlins that unknowingly, because they're subconscious, kind of keep us either going back to unhealthy habits or unsupportive, let's say, habits versus making changes, being able to make changes that stick. So how do you work with your women not only to address the physical changes, which are important because I feel like those are going to give you, I want to say, quick wins versus addressing the more underlying issues that might be going on that if you fix those, then the physical things are kind of a given.

Yeah, that's, that's always, that's a great question. And so I think a big part is definitely focusing on the small changes and the small wins, but also just letting people know that sometimes the mind and body are connected. And so there is that mind-body connection, and whatever's going on in the mind can manifest in the body. So it's just sharing that piece with them, but gently also helping them consider getting support with that, or just sharing about how that could be manifesting for them. And so if I was— I was focusing on the mind-body part in my programs, but I might bring some of that into my clinical practice, seeing clients one-on-one as well.

Okay. And how often, or is it an option— I know it might not be an option for the women in our group, but is there an opportunity For the— let me ask it this way: does the success of somebody being able to manage their hormones effectively, is their partner's involvement impacting that as well? And if so, how do you then bring them in so they get a more— to use the word that you used before— a more holistic solution to what ails them?

I think a big part is your environment, where you're, you know, what you're surrounded by can affect your health. So it's important to get your partner on board, get support, communicate with them about what's going on and what you're trying to achieve, and that you do need their support. Say if you need to cook healthier, go for walks, just getting them on board to help you make those changes. And I have seen clients struggle with partners who do not want to make change. So it's important whether they want to make change or not, that you are— that you, you're going to put yourself first anyway. So it's that making that decision to change and to become healthier for yourself. But if your partner's there to support you, it can make things so much easier.

So when a partner is not interested in change, how do you, how do you coach them through that? Do you, is it like, um, do you sometimes encourage them to just be more open? Do you encourage them to get third-party help? Do you, like, what are some of the ways that they can manage? Because it's, we're all talking about the community, right? You talked the environment. So for the women in, in the group, it might be, you know, reaching out and creating a new tribe to support them. So yeah, when women are going through hormonal changes, if they still have a companion who doesn't want that change not that he has a say, because it is what it is and it happens to all of us women. Um, but how do they then rebuild that community and that container so that it doesn't alienate Monsieur, right? But it also feels supportive for them.

And I love how you put it, finding that community. I think it's important to find your tribe or your community of people who will support you, whether that be like a dance class group or a community, like a spiritual group, just something where people will support and encourage you. And even having like a practitioner's support there, someone there beside you, walking beside you, encouraging you, is important. That can really help. But having people who are on a similar journey, going on the same path as you, can be really encouraging. But also to set healthy boundaries with your partner around that and just be like, it's okay if you're not willing to support me, but I need to get support from here. But you know, I love you, and you know, our relationship can still continue, can still, you know, do what we're going to do, but I'm going to be making healthier choices, making healthy decisions, and so forth.

And I— go ahead.

There you go.

No, and I was just going to say that goes back to what you were talking about, setting boundaries. And, you know, it's the, the cliché of putting your oxygen mask on first is a cliché for a reason. Yes, right.

Yes, definitely. And I found that from a personal point of view as well, it's important to take care of myself first before I can give to others. And that sometimes ebbs and flows, not perfect. But it's important that I'm doing it more often than not.

Yeah, yeah, I can see that. So before we got on, we were talking a little bit about, you know, divorce and breakups and, and things like that. So, um, I know we don't all have a story of divorce, but I have to believe that we all have some kind of a story of breakup or heartbreak. So What, what have been, or what has been, the biggest lesson for you going through heartbreak that has impacted how you show up in your relationship now?

Um, so I think one of the biggest things is in those relationships where there were breakups, I gave a lot of myself to that person. I neglected and abandoned myself. So I gave everything to them, and so I felt like I was very codependent in those relationships. And so I had a good 3 years on my own, which is really good for my own self-growth. So it really helped me get to know myself and understanding what was good for me, what was healthy, what was nourishing, um, and what to prioritize. And to keep going whether I'm in a relationship or not.

Yeah.

And so going into my current relationship, my partner who I'm married to now, self-care is essential. And so it's not just for me, it's for him as well. So we're both taking care of ourselves, we're both being autonomous, we're both doing things that we love. It's really important to be able to both live our own lives but also come together. So be interdependent rather than codependent.

Yeah, and I love that difference between codependent and interdependent because we have to have our own life. We can't all be about our— about our partner. And I'm curious, how did you figure out what you wanted? How did you go about doing that? Because I went through it one way, but I'd love to hear how you figured that out for you.

For me, it was having that time for self-reflection. And so just writing down things that I wanted in my life, things that I wanted to do, places I wanted to visit, just creating a dreams list and just having something to look forward to. It's really important for me, knowing about what I want. And I think what's interesting, it's important to revisit the list because I've noticed after having a baby with this change that I've changed. And so what I wanted previously has now shifted. So I need to go back to that self-reflection process and ask myself the question, what do I want? And it's okay to prioritize those things that I want.

Yeah, and I mean, obviously you have to prioritize your little guy, right?

Definitely, definitely considering him, yes, but also, yeah, it's a balance.

Yeah, because you have your little guy, you have your big guy, and then you have you, and then it's like, okay, how does all of this work in harmony so everybody feels supported and everybody feels served, including myself. So do you have like a trick, something that you found is like, when I do this, then I know, or I see that things are much more smooth?

Yes, my daily practice of meditation is so important. Connecting something to something bigger than myself is priority. It's the first thing I need to do every day. So that I can give from a space of— a really a space of where I'm held, but where first, and then others also held and supported as well.

Okay, okay. So, um, anything that we haven't touched on that you think is important for our heroines to know?

I think it's really important to know that if you are going through hormonal changes such as perimenopause and menopause, that there are big— there can be big hormonal fluctuations, and we all deal with those differently. But to know that it's important to get support and help, so whether that's from your GP, whether it's from a natural health practitioner, whether it's from the community, it's important to have that social support and to talk about it because sometimes we normalize things and think, oh, or think that we're the only ones going through this thing, and that's simply not true. So we need to reach out and share about what's going on for us honestly, and it can really help a lot. By just having that community, as you shared, and support.

And menopause is weird. Like, there are all kinds of weird symptoms. Like, um, I know something that I deal with is itchy ears. Oh, who knew that was a symptom of perimenopause? Like, and sometimes my eyes have a hard time focusing. And from what I've read, that's also something. So it's like, and there are some things that are just downright embarrassing, and it's like you don't want to tell anybody about it because you're like, am I the only freak that's going through this right now?

Right?

So I like what you said about, again, I think going back to the community and having a community around you that understands, that knows what you're going through. Is hypercritical, um, to the whole thing.

It is, it so is. So I think you're doing an amazing, amazing job with this group, Alex.

Ah, thank you, thank you. Well, um, anything else you want to put on the table before we—

just to let women know, if you are suffering, that you don't need to suffer, whether it's period pain, mood swings, hot flushes, to not just accept it, to actually delve deeper, dig deeper, find out what's causing the issue so that you can find practical solutions that you can apply and they can help you feel like yourself again.

Yeah, I, um I recently discovered— I didn't want to do hormonal hormone therapy, but a friend of mine turned me on to bioidentical hormones because I was every 45 minutes, it was like I have flame on, and through the day, and worse even at night. And I have to say since I've been on those things, it's like I got my life again.

That's incredible.

Amazing.

Yay!

So that's why I'm saying, you're right, talk to somebody. Don't hold it. Just let people know and let people support you on, on this journey. So I'm with you 100%. Yay! So, you know, thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom.