Stop the All or Nothing Thinking | Healing, Food, and Self Compassion

Hello, heroines. Welcome back. It's been a while since we've done an interview in here, and I couldn't be more excited. Today I have with us Lauren Dormant, who is the Don't Diet dietitian. If that sounds like music to your ears, like it did to mine, I think you're in for a treat. Lauren, how are you?

I'm great. Thank you, Alex, for having me. I really appreciate you.

My pleasure. My pleasure. So you know what, let's just jump right into it. Why don't you share with us who Lauren is?

Well, who's Lauren? There's all different parts of Lauren. There's Lauren, the mother, the wife, the entrepreneur, right? So got a lot of different parts here. What should I start with? Let's see. Well, I am, I've been a dietitian for 2 decades and working with children, working with families, working with adults, working with school systems, supporting therapists, supporting pediatrician. So there's a, there's a lot.

Uh, there is a lot.

Yeah, but it's very important to me because of the world that we live in and what I have recently seen, especially over the last 5 years, that a lot of, a lot of, uh, children and adults are not feeling great in their bodies and are not sometimes eating enough or taking care of themselves in ways that really would truly support them and nourish them. So I say— you just said Lauren is the Don't Diet Dietitian. I say, like, I help people undiet and instead learn how to design lives that truly light them up.

And that could be—

and I love that. I love that because, like, dieting always feels like a box, right? Like, you have all these things that you can't do. It doesn't talk about all of the things that you can do.

Yeah.

So when you— when you're on a path to nourishment, it feels good, it feels satisfying, it feels calm, it feels energizing, it feels just— it feels right to you. So you're— it's your own rule book, and it's not going by every— all the noise out there, which unfortunately we have a lot of different distraction, disconnection, and noise that we're taking in. And that's even increased over the last few years. And when you can kind of check in, pause, notice, that's when the real magic starts to happen. And I also designed a completely free guidebook that so many people are having so many shifts and elevating their experience with eating. It's called Nine to Nourished. And it's what I have found in my experience over the last years educating one-on-one clients. What makes them successful? What makes their journey and process work well for them? And that's— I put that all into a book and everyone here can have a copy of it for free.

Yeah.

So that— yeah, you're so welcome. It's just my gift to the world so that you can think, if someone is open to it, to think differently, to feel differently, and to take different inspired action. Because everybody has all this information, right? And a lot of people know what to do, but it's just the, well, why am I not doing it? That's where I come in. That's the key. That's the key. And a lot of, I would say like 98% of people out there are not getting the right effective support with actually figuring out, well, how do I go from knowing to doing? How do I get over that bridge? So I, I absolutely love to help support people to, you know, live quality lives because our, our health habits are really important for the quality of our lives.

They matter so much.

Yeah, and they do say if you don't have your health, you really don't have anything, right? And when you're tired and you're dragging, it's like, how much more difficult is the day? Even on a day-to-day basis.

Yeah, I mean, some people just don't want to feel the way they feel anymore, and they come to me, you know. It's like, it doesn't have to be a rock bottom either. It can just be, I just— I'm deciding now that I just don't want to feel this way, you know. Um, But yeah, it's a beautiful process of—

No, it's very cool. Very cool. I'm excited to actually hear more. But and like, I have a bunch of things that have come into my mind. But how did you get started?

So when I was 11 years old, I knew I wanted to help people be healthy. That young.

Okay. Wow.

I just, you know, we didn't have iPhones, we had magazines, and I loved reading all the nutrition information and reading things about, you know, just recipes with my mom. It was just, it was a nice simple time back then. And I just was curious about health. And I went to Penn State and I graduated with my master's, and I thought that I'd be working for the New York Yankees.

Okay.

I wanted to be a sports dietitian. And what happened? I thought I'd help the athletes with that.

No.

So that didn't ultimately work out. But I am very happy with what I'm doing now, even more than that.

Good.

That would have been—

so how did I get into this? Well, you know, you finish your dietetic internship and I worked at a hospital and just seeing so many clients. Well, they were patients back then. Now, now I have clients. For my private practice, you know, seeing and learning from them. You know, I learn more from my clients than I do any book ever. And that is how I know what's going to work and what's not going to work, because we really are all one.

We really are.

A lot of us are thinking the same when it comes to these things and programmed in certain ways that we think, you know, it should be and it has to be. And it's not always the truth. And what I have learned the most is that a lot of people are kind of going in circles with maybe someone that's not qualified like a registered dietitian. So we're licensed, credentialed, you know, research-backed, science-based, evidence-based, and we focus on a realistic approach for life skills for your life. And a lot of these other like health coaches and nutritionists, they're not qualified to really give you that deep, meaningful, lasting support for lifelong. It might be like a short term, you know. So yeah, so I ended up leaving the hospital 3 years ago, and I founded Schools Master Food and Mood, and I provide programs for students and parents and for the school staff. I do so many wonderful workshops that really shift their thinking and enhance the students' quality of their habits as well.

So what's changed from when you first started your program to now? There, there's so much stuff in the news about what's good for you, what's bad for you. One, one day eggs are good, the next day they're not good, and then they're good again. And like, there's so much conflicting information out there. What has you— have you seen as How has your own practice evolved over the course of the last 3 years?

It's a great question. I would say 7, about 7 years ago, I was introduced to a book called Intuitive Eating and realizing that some of the, the teachings that I and education that I learned in school was actually not helping people to reach their optimal nourishment and goals. So for example, you know, labeling foods as good or bad or portion control and not tuning into your hunger and your satisfaction and your fullness levels and really trusting your body and yourself can actually lead to kind of, I would say, self-destructive behaviors with food and self-sabotage. And somebody might think like, I don't get it, what's wrong? Or I'll be better tomorrow, or I give up. And it's a very black-white thinking that is not going to move them toward what they want for their goals and their health. Another thing I used to do was I used to leave people with like 10 goals to work on before they left. And that's not—

I, I—

right now it's only 1 or 2 things at a time. Yeah, we go slower to go faster because in the end, if you have the patience and the time to work on 1 thing and 1 habit at a time, the other thing is My clients have all the answers within them. Yeah, I don't have their answers, right? People will come to me and say, but I want to know this and I want to know this. Yes, but that's not going to help you with your lifelong skills and for you to choose and decide in that moment, right? So I ask really, I ask questions that people have never been asked before. A lot of motivational a lot of motivational interviewing techniques. I didn't used to do that years ago. And what I have found is so many aha, light bulb moments go off. I never thought of it that way. That makes a lot of sense. I'm going to work on that. And it's— there's this like flexibility and freedom around food choices and decisions, and they actually create improved, helpful, supportive habits. When they can have that compassion for themselves as well and that check-in with themselves rather than relying on so many external advice.

No.

And a lot of people are, you know, think people have said really cruel things about body, about food. There's been a lot of judgments in life. And all of that judgment, all that judgment led— did— does not lead to self-compassion. It does not lead to helpful behaviors and habits and actions. It keeps people in the 'I know what to do, but I can't do it.' Yeah, and that nasty habit of self-flagellating.

So, okay, and I can, I can see that, um, and I want to touch on a couple of things. So what I'm gathering is that you have more of a focus on the internal in terms of how people feel, right? Because I know how I feel in my body, you know how you feel in your body, but neither one of us is gonna know how the other one feels. Mm-hmm. In the other one's body, right? So when we focus more internally versus listening to the noise outside. Mm-hmm. I'm assuming that's where the big shift happens.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

So also realizing how to put together meals and snacks that energize and fuel you. You have to experiment a little bit and play a little bit, have fun with it. It's not, it's not about restriction and rules and guides. It's playing, experimenting, and having fun. And that's the best way to learn what works for me.

Mm-hmm. No, agreed. Agreed. And the thing that came to my mind was becoming curious about what we're eating and how it's impacting our body versus being judgmental about the fact that we ate a piece of chocolate.

Yeah, well, actually, I have a slide on this. I teach some of the— therapists and the school-based clinicians, I could imagine the slide in my head right now. It says that, you know, it's not chocolate that's really the problem. The problem is our relationship with chocolate. So our anxious, overwhelmed, feeling out of control, you know, that kind of relationship with the food, that is what's unsupportive and unhelpful. But if we have this more neutral relationship with foods, you actually make better decisions with your variety over time than you would if you have that critical— I call her Critical Kara or, or like Mean Mary or, you know, whatever my clients want to name their, their inner critic, which it's just, it's valid that we all have inner critics just by living in the world. But we get to become the CEO of our brains and bodies. We don't have to listen. We can tell that inner critic, can you take a back seat in the car? Yeah, I am the driver and I am the CEO, and you're not going to be ruling or bossing me around anymore. I'm gonna have compassion that you're there. And I always talk about find it, feel it, friend it, and free it. You know, just having compassion. It's there. Thank you for coming in to try to protect me. Become friends and then kind of free it, because the first thought is never going to be the best thought for most people.

Yeah.

So what you just talked about makes me think about trigger foods.

Yeah.

Because I have trigger foods. Like, if I eat bread or pasta or, you know, the carbs, then I have a tendency to make um, less healthy decisions as the day goes on. So how—

yeah, that's a great point. Do you feel— what are your thoughts and your feelings when you're eating the carbs? Are they neutral or no, they're, they're, they're negative?

Um, they're—

it depend—

in the moment, they might be actually very positive. It's the aftermath that maybe isn't so nice.

OK, so when you have that, and that makes sense. In our world, are we taught low carbs is good? Are we taught that?

I just find that for— and this is just for me personally, right? I am more level throughout the day if I don't have carbs. But I love the carbs. I grew up French. I grew up on fresh baguette and cheese and all of that. Stuff. So it's a, it's a constant internal conflict.

So then if it's internal constant conflict, of course you will crave that even more. If you have— if you relax into it and say, well, what is the judgment here? Am I allowed to have some? It depends on how that food makes you feel. If you come to yourself, if you tell yourself it's not about the food, it's about how I want to feel. Yeah, that could release some of that internal conflict. It could. But our bodies and brains need an adequate amount of carbs every single day just to function well. So sometimes it's our biology and physiology taking over, like, versus you wanting to, like, you know, thinking that you have a trigger. But everybody is different, and I work with everybody on their own individual needs. It's a very unique, elevated experience. It's, it's not a— everything out there is one size, not cookie cutter.

Yeah.

No, no. It's so unique to, to what you are dealing with, to what your thoughts are, to what your emotions are. And when you can have that small shift, things do change. And you may have less of a power struggle when you have different thoughts because you have to remember your thoughts create the emotion and then create that action or behavior. So the more someone says, I shouldn't, I can't, it's bad, the more the brain rebels and wants to have it.

Yeah.

And there's also—

there's— it's very complex though. It's not just that, right? There's also experiences in your past. You fell and you got injured and your mom ran over with a lollipop or a chocolate cake, right? And now your brain is saying, oh, I feel sad, I got hurt, food, food soothes me in the moment, you know. So a lot of my work too is the immediate gratification over the long-term vision. That's a, that's a big work. And the first ingredient in my guidebook is vision and seeing your future self and understanding how to really connect with her and how to really like taste her, smell her, see her. It's like this movie in your mind. And believe it or not, that vision is more important than any strategy. And it precedes success. And it saves people years and years and years of trial and error and overthinking. And the clarity piece, people are like, I just wish I had this years ago. I'm like, that's okay.

You have it now.

You don't— you're not aware, you don't know. But yeah, that's page 7 in my guidebook if anybody opens it and wants to dig in.

Um, cool.

Yeah, I have it right next to me. But another piece is the self-love piece because, you know, this can all be great, this conversation is beautiful, right? But if you don't have that self-love piece, no wonder you're not able to follow through with promises that you made to yourself. So it's like this key that you're opening up in the back door of your mind, and you're having different conversations with yourself.

Yeah, yeah. So I'm thinking about the women in the group who are going through divorce or have gone through divorce. When you go through a tumultuous time like this, it's very easy to forego our health or to self-soothe with food, right? So how do you work with women who are going through a turbulent time?

Yeah.

To support them in remembering how important they are and how important their health is so they can show up in a better way for themselves in that difficult time.

Well, sometimes there could— there will be days where they're not going to be able to.

Yeah.

And that's okay. And guess what? The less you judge, the less stuck— the less you judge, the less stuck you become. The more you can kind of check in and say, and name it and say, I'm feeling sad, I'm feeling angry, I'm feeling frustrated, I'm feeling overwhelmed. Whatever emotion you're feeling and this is why I'm choosing to take on this behavior that's not supportive, right? But again, you're, you're facing your own, uh, relationship with yourself, because the relationship you have with yourself is the relationship that we have with food. So when you're going through a very difficult time in life, What if you did, did need a few days or a few weeks to use food to cope? What, what will be the harm? Because the more you're actually making it a bigger issue, the more you're going to stay stuck in it, in that all-or-nothing thinking, when you can learn how to pause, check in, less shame and more curiosity. And compassion and kindness, that is where you actually are able to make some small little changes. But a lot of women may be thinking that it has to be all this. I have to, you know, plan my meals and do all this, and it doesn't— that is nonsense. You know, what if you just drank enough water that day? What if you just made yourself this nice nourishing blueberry yogurt walnut dish. What if you made yourself a sandwich? Like, you're doing great. So I think it actually comes down to the expectations, which is ingredient number 9 in my book. It's the last ingredient. What are the expectations that they're bringing on themselves in those moments? And can they kind of, I would say, like, ride the wave of the uncertainty of what's going on and you know, maybe once or twice that day they're able to make— maybe they're even able to put on a 5-minute stretch video or listen to a 5-minute meditation or go out for a 10-minute walk. Like, it doesn't have to be hard. It can be the all-or-something thinking, not the all-or-nothing thinking. And that really moves the needle.

So, and I love what you're saying because I I do, and I know I notice it in myself, um, that all-or-nothing thinking, right? So what are some ways that you've been able to support women to incorporate little moments of exercise or mindfulness or— yep, yep, whatever other ingredients in their daily life so they're they continue to move forward, um, but they're not— they're taking small step instead of taking giant leaps.

First of all, our brain loves all-or-nothing thinking because it conserves energy, and it's easy. It's easy. And also, food is easy to use to help soothe us in the moment as well. Um, so the best advice I have is your self-talk shifting to, I am capable, I am learning, I am becoming a person who blank, right? I'm becoming a person who moves their body regularly, who drinks water regularly. So it's not about the doing, doing, doing, doing. It's about the becoming. And when you can become a person who naturally has these habits over time, and you— it again, it comes back to those conversations you're having and the promises you make. Like, what's going on? What's the battle? Like, oh, I know I should go out for a walk, but oh, I have to do the laundry and I have to do, uh, you know, have to cook. Yes, the laundry and the cooking will be there. You You deserve to prioritize yourself for a little, a little movement in your day, hydration in your day, nourishment in your day, recharging. Maybe some women that are listening right now actually need to take a 30-minute catnap and put on a timer. Yeah, I know I've done that some days. Well, I'm lucky to be able to— I mean, I'm lucky to be able to do that working from home, but I wish that even, you know, people at work, I wish they had allowed that time for recharge, you know, that like 30 minutes in the middle of the day, maybe at 1 to 3 o'clock. But everyone has to figure out what they want to work on. Like, there might be some women listening, they're like, I'm not going to work on that or that, but yeah, Lauren brought up this and this, and maybe I can do that. So it's not about what I'm saying, it's about what you want to do in your life. That, that will light you up and not drain you. So think of the, the strainer when you take the pasta and you pour, you know, versus actually filling up a cup with a nice coffee or a nice tea. You're nourishing your body and your mind versus draining from that strainer. And what to you— what— and some people are like, wow, I never thought about that. What really matters to me? What's my purpose? What's my why? What's my big bigger reason here for doing these small little micro actions. And it's in those small little moments and choices that make up the journey and the bigger thing. One other thing I want to say, though, is when you can let go of an outcome and so much of the how, how, how, and you can just say by the time you lay your head down at night on the pillow, you're pretty proud of like 2 or 3 things or one thing, whatever it is you did. That's where the beauty lies, is that just the process and the journey and not this expectation of when I get there, when I get there. It's not— that's not how we, we live our best lives. And we're like, oh, tomorrow I'll be better and next week I'll be better. And we only have today. And to be more present, that's very powerful.

So talking about presence, and that we only have today. There is so much stress in the world right now, right? We have stress from whatever is happening in the geopolitical landscape. We have stresses from family. We have stresses in this case from going through a difficult time. How does your food choice impact how you perceive stress and how you deal with it?

Excellent question. So I'm going to say something that has changed a lot of people's lives about stress.

Okay.

If you can change your relationship with the word stress itself and you can understand, I'm feeling stressed because this, or, and you don't make stress such a heavy word. Like for some people, they feel stressed because they're excited about something or they feel stressed because there, there's too much going on and this is what it is. But when you change your thought and your feeling about the word stress, it doesn't stress you out as much.

Okay, that makes sense.

That's one thing.

Yeah, because excitement is stress.

Yeah, right.

So it's—

yeah, I mean, I've had to do that with presentations sometimes, right? Like, I am, I'm stressed, but I'm so excited to teach them things that they, they've never learned before and skills that are going to improve their lives. So say the question again.

So when someone is stressed, how, how their food choices impacts how they perceive that stress.

Well, so the name of my, my company for schools is Master Food and Mood, because your food choices impact the mood that you're in. And then your actual mood is going to impact what choices you make in those moments and in that day. So if you are not eating regularly or enough, or enough variety, your brain will be not able to make clear decisions. Uh, will be brain fog, will be anxiety, will be maybe a poor GI, gastric, uh, you know, and also just overall energy, headaches. There's just so many side effects that can make you feel more overwhelmed, and I don't think any, any of the women listening would want those side effects that would stress their brains out even more. If they knew, wow, if I just made two little shifts in my day and I learned some skills, which I'm more than happy to provide, um, the women with, uh, some sample visuals as well.

Okay, thank you.

So it's— I— that's my gift to you, because then they will notice. And I have seen this time after time, one-on-one clients or people that email me after they read the book: I did this and I had energy to play with my grandson, to play basketball with my son, to you know, walk, like just things that mattered to them. They had the energy and they had the mood and they had the focus and they showed up with just more grounded and more calm in general. They didn't get so irritated by other relationships and energy. You know, they were able to like check in in the moment because if you're not hydrating or nourishing enough or working on at least 3 main habits overall, it's very difficult to check in.

Hmm.

Because your, your nervous system is dysregulated constantly, and we can't make— we can't make supportive choices and decisions with a stressed-out brain and nervous system. So I hope that that really does help some of the viewers listening.

Thank you. I'm sure, I'm sure it will. Um, I wanna talk about one more thing. Fasting for women.

Yeah.

I, there's so much in the world out there around fasting. And I also understand that a lot of the research that's been done has been done with men versus with women. How, what, what is your take on fasting for women, especially women our age? Who are going through perimenopause.

So let me talk about that quickly. So it's okay, it doesn't matter though what I believe, right? Because if somebody is fasting and is feeling unbelievable and their life is lit up and they feel that that works for them and they don't have food noise and they don't have cravings and they just feel like, "This works for me, Lauren," then who am I to say that doesn't work for anybody? Everybody that I, that I meet is an expert in their own life with their relationship with food.

I don't have all the answers.

I guide them to their own answers for their own environment in their lives. So really, like, it is research and it is this, but how does it make you think and feel? And how are you getting— are you getting energy? And are you feeling good mood? And are you irritable? Or are you able to check in and have this, like, you know, so really so many of us are so disconnected and distracted and, uh, and towards destination self-doubt, and we're not understanding, like, we can actually get— have this clear GPS direction on what— how we want to feel. And is fasting the way? For most people, it's not. However, there could be 5-10% of people that it does work for. But listen to your body and feel self-led and trusting. Yeah.

Okay. No, I think that's great because it's true that everybody is different. I fast almost every day. I just have tea in the morning, right? And that seems to satiate me for the day. So, all right, one last question and then I'll let you go. Um, because we all have a story of heartbreak in our life at some point from an intimate relationship. Um, what's a lesson that you learned that you think is important to share, um, based on your experience?

So in high school, I was in a relationship for 2 years with, um, uh, a boyfriend that was abusive and was cheating. And I did stay because I was in high school. And I mean, you can stay at any age, really, but you thought that they would change or something would shift. And, um, I realized that it was much better for me to get out as soon as possible. At one point, something happened and I said, I can't continue. And I think it made me more intuitive with the next relationships that I was looking for. I think I, I took a long break. I don't think I even dated anybody, um, maybe for even 3 or 4 years. I probably was a little bit afraid of, of men, and it made me realize that what to truly look for in a person and, and their kindness and their presence and the way that they treat you and look at you and the words they say to you. It's just such— we deserve to be around that in our lives, in this one special life that we have. And also, you deserve to treat yourself that way if you don't have a relationship with someone else. Right. But we're not taught those skills. Right.

But True.

So I, I definitely learned a lot from— and I always say that your obstacles in life are always gonna— if, if you're— if you believe in it, is hidden opportunity for your future. There's a gift for most people.

Yeah, yeah, I agree. All right, anything else that, um, we haven't talked about that you think is worth mentioning to our heroines?

Let's see, um, I have a free email community that has lessons and my workbook and, you know, stories of women that have healed working with me. You're welcome to come in. I'll, I'll link that, and I'll also link my Facebook community that you can become a part of if you would like to. But really, the, the takeaway is, is Check in with yourself. Pause, notice, reflect. Uh, you know, so many of us are on autopilot, and we can become— like I said before, we can become the CEO of our brain and body if we choose to decide to want to live, live a quality life and quality habits. And the last thing I'm going to say is just, um, It doesn't have to be this big thing, just small little shifts, tiny little micro actions, and you will notice a difference day to day. Yeah.

Beautiful.

Thank you.

I love it. Lauren, thank you so much for being here and sharing your wisdom.

Thank you.

Thanks for the, the whole mishap.

It's okay.

We'll get that.

We'll get that sorted out. Heroines, if any of what Lauren said really resonated with you and you wanna connect with her, please do so. She'll throw all of the different ways in which you can connect with her in the comments underneath. We hope that this has served you. If you have any comments, any questions, anything else, just throw them down in the comments and we will get to them. I just wanna say thank you so much for being here. And Lauren, again, thank you so much for everything that you shared today. This was a pleasure. Don't hang up just yet.

You're so welcome.