The Legacies We Leave: Deborah Coviello, the Drop-In CEO

Hello everyone and welcome to The Legacies We Leave: Conversations on Fulfillment, Joy, and Purpose. This week I am happy to bring you my friend and former colleague Deb Koviello, also known as the Drop-In CEO. Deb is an advisor, an author, podcast host, and the founder of Illuminations Partners, the consulting firm for CEOs navigating change. She's a trusted partner to the C-suite leaders and brings 30+ years of experience and strategy in quality and operational excellence combined with her 30+ years in the flavor and fragrance industry to support her clients as they work together to identify, assess, and solve the issues that are preventing them from business growth. So Deb, welcome! I'm so excited to have you here.

Oh, Alex, thank you so much for the opportunity, and I just hope this conversation will be valuable for both of our communities. There is just so much that both you and I can offer to just help women get through the challenges so they can realize great success.

Super! I know we're gonna have a good time. So you know what, I'm not going to wait any further. I'm just going to jump right in, and I think it's important for women to really understand kind of what our respective journeys are. So tell us a little bit about your journey. How did you transition from corporate into where you are now, and why did you decide to go that way?

Well, if I could start with the end, uh, I didn't decide. The universe decided for me. But however it happened, I went through a transition. But just my background is similar to all the other professionals out there. We are amazingly smart and talented and a go-getter, and I moved up 30 Years again honing my skills in quality and operational excellence, how to make things better, faster, cheaper across several industries, including my favorite, the flavor and fragrance industries. However, as I ascended to those roles that I wanted, I wanted to be able to lead and have impact on a grander scale. So I was the Regional Head of Operational Excellence and Quality and felt like I had arrived. And oh my. Had I arrived at a place that I didn't realize all the skills that we needed to develop that maybe we weren't equipped with, not only just technically doing what we did, but the leadership, having challenging conversations, how to negotiate things, how to influence, executive presence. They don't teach you that, but you have to figure that out along the way. So I was doing my job really well. And then there was a time, there was a time, oh my goodness, about 4 or 5 years ago where despite all my work and being agile and moving resources all over the place, I got stuck, but stuck in a really bad place because I was like so stressed. I had no mechanisms to demote that stress that I was feeling. Despite working harder and longer, the stress was still there. Not even comfort, just spending time with family could bring that down. And so I think those were starting to show, and eventually I and my boss decided to part ways. And it was met with first remorse, regret— how could this happen to me? But ultimately was the best thing that could have happened to me because I was forced forced out at a time when what I was doing was no longer serving myself and my joy and what I needed to be who I wanted to be. So I left, and in about 3 months' time, I developed or created Illumination Partners. The story behind the company is really interesting, but it was the launch point for me being able to, I would say, return to who I once was as a child and be able to do purposeful work and serving companies that I could really have a big impact. But I'll just pause there a little bit because there's so much in there for which a lot of soul searching, a little bit of pain, but ultimately like a lot of great joy.

Yeah, and I think, you know, that's so important to hear you say it because I think, you know, we go down these paths and we do what we feel is right, and somewhere along the way we kind of lose ourselves, right? We lose the things that make us happy, we lose the things that make us shine. And it's only when things happen the way that they happened with you where In the moment, you're like, oh my God, you feel like your whole world is falling apart. But then you take a step back and you're like, well, you know what, maybe this is the perfect opportunity, right? And we don't generally think about those things when we're fighting the war, right? When we're in the trenches, when we're doing our, our day-to-day. And I totally hear you on the stress because that's where I was. That's absolutely where I was.

And what it does is, and if we It was an acute situation. I was forced to pause and reflect. And my biggest takeaway, and I share this with people that come into my world, is that over the course of the year, the week, the month, what have you, we need to pause and reflect. We need to put aside some time and just saying, am I loving what I'm doing? Am I doing the work that I want? Did I feel good? Is my soul fulfilled? And again, it is a bit of soul searching, but if we don't take that time, that self-discipline in taking time for ourselves and evaluating where we're at, how can we do that in service to others? Again, we have to stop, reflect, and are we disciplined enough to say, are we on the right course or do we need to change direction?

And do you think this is something that— so I'm going to ask you the question and I'm going to tell you why. So the question is, do you think this is something that affects both men and women equally, or do you think that's something that affects women maybe more so than men? And the reason I ask is because I feel that we have a tendency to nurture and care for others before we actually take the time to care for ourselves. And I don't see necessarily that same dynamic with the gentlemen out there.

So thank you for asking me this question, because I often try not to be gender-oriented when I respond to such questions, because I want to keep an open mind. I mean, I have two sons and a daughter, and I honestly feel that both genders will feel stress, but in different ways. Men work hard, women work hard. I have both in my family, but I think men have a capability of letting things roll off their shoulders, of being a little bit more mission-focused, um, whereas a strength and a detriment for women often being nurturing, being caring, taking on too much responsibility onto ourselves because of that caring that we have in our nature. Again, a positive. We shouldn't become anything else than who we are, but we bear the burden a little bit more versus— I recently have had to learn how Oh, just let that go. Don't let that bother me. Stay focused. And eventually it gets easier and easier to relinquish some of the burden that we take on ourselves.

No, cool. I appreciate the perspective. And, and you're right, I think, you know, we all face similar things. We just deal with them in, in different ways. Yeah, no, absolutely. So what is your sense of purpose in life? How did you discover it? And how do you strive to fulfill it? Because one of the things that I hear a lot from women is, I don't know what my purpose is, or if I were to do something different, I don't know what I would do, right? So how did that journey come about for you?

So this is a really, uh, cool question because I used to think, you know, hey, I work hard, I've got a great partner, we earn money, we had children, we invested in our children's education. And I once said, I think my purpose is simply to provide productive citizens of society ready, and my children support my children because they are going to make an impact on the world. I felt like a conduit, not only just to maintain a family unit, but my children were going to make a difference. And then I said, wait a second, I'm not dead yet. I still have impact. But I only realized that once I went through a transition and had to figure out what was my purpose. Now, mind you, I've iterated on this purpose, but I have landed in a place. But there's always been something out there. It originally started with 3 words: light, lift, and lead. I was trying to be, you know, nice. 3 L's to light the way, lift others, and provide leadership coaching. And these themes kept resonating. But I have arrived at a place that about a year before I left my last company, I said this in an organizational meeting, and they didn't take too kindly to this. I said, my purpose ultimately is to help you, the people around me, the people on my team struggle less, not have to work as hard so that we can spend more time doing the things we'd love to do with our ourselves, family, friends, and community. That was really the ultimate purpose of why I was working so hard to make things better, faster, cheaper, safer. And that really wasn't taken too kindly, at least from the leadership team. But my peers who met with me afterwards said, we need more people that think like you. So it evolved a little bit more because obviously I have to run a business. Helping people to struggle less doesn't have enough teeth. But when I thought about the people that I served, I said, you know, I love working with the C-suite leaders. I want to help them get on track. I was off track. I don't want them to struggle as much.. But I really, really, really care about the up-and-coming leaders because I was once a struggling leader without a support system. So I blended the two together and arrived again after some coaching, people like you to help me as well, to say, I am here to serve the C-suite leaders of today and tomorrow, navigate challenges with confidence so they can do the things they love to do, struggle less, and spend more time with family, friends, and, and community. It took time. Don't rush to it. Let those things happen to you, and clarity and time help you to find what your purpose is.

Yeah. And it's not like, um, you know, I've heard some people say, you know, you don't, don't wait for the piano of purpose to fall on your head, right? You can't. You have to go look for it. You have to really take the time to sit with it and say, okay, if I think about when, you know, my time has come, what do I want to leave behind? What, what is going to make me proud to say this is what I did? And this is what I was here for. But it doesn't just— it's not something that comes, you know, with the snap of a finger for sure.

But people also have to— women, we need to wake up and listen to what the world is saying to us. Because so often when we're so good at something and somebody gives us a compliment, we just let shrug off our shoulders and say, well, thank you, because that's just what I'm good at. But you never think about those skills that other people, uh, really, really appreciate you for. And one of the things I also say is I just want to inspire people, get them think differently. I don't want to be an influencer. I want them to get to think differently, think their own thoughts and act on them versus the narratives of what others say. And when somebody says to me, Deb, you inspired me, or that was inspirational, then it's like, okay, I know that purposeful work is starting to come to fruition. And we should look for signs of that affirmation because then it's that fuel that keeps us going.

Absolutely. Beautifully, beautifully said. Completely agree with you. Um, so has your understanding of legacy evolved? Like, when you were in corporate versus now what you're doing, does legacy mean something different to you? And how do you see it, or do you see it continuing to evolve?

Legacy is the memory that we leave with people in whatever those interactions are. It's harder to leave a legacy in corporate because often those organizations are so big, but once you have, they are significant and long-lasting. I will tell you, one of my first consulting gigs came from a relationship from a corporation that I worked with 10 years prior because they knew that I could get the job done. So legacy is leaving that impression of how people make you feel. Now, when I transitioned and started working for myself, I was very targeted. I didn't want to go back to large corporations because the time investing in having an impact was so much longer. And I find when I I work with small and medium-sized companies, again, finding my people or individuals, the impact of the legacy can be so much quicker. I can leave my legacy in 3 months' time when we have an engagement or work on a project. And it's that memory, that confidence, that relationship that we build that says, Deb, can I talk to you? Is there something else? I need you to do something else for me. And those are the legacy gems that you find happening a lot quicker than the corporation. But I've always been about leaving a legacy. It's not about just providing a service. It is about Leaving a Lasting Impact, which happens to be in my video on my website.

Okay. And it's not just for you, right? It's also for your kids. It's for the people that you engage with. I think that's the beauty of it, is that it's more than just us.

I guess that you're right. I mean, there is always personal satisfaction, but when you know that you can leave your impact on somebody else— I mean, even your children. I mean, children are— nieces, nephews, they're all part of my life. But when my son says to me— we actually, when he became of age and We were having an adult beverage. He said, you know, Mom, you were right. I was right about what? And he talked about some friends that were friends of theirs in high school for which they made bad decisions and took one course in life when he took another road. And he's now adopted those values and can objectively look back on people that he would prefer not to associate with or be empathetic that they've chosen a different path. It's just not theirs. When you see those years of trying to hammer in certain philosophies and mindsets and values take effect, then you know, okay, I've left my impact, and hopefully they will be teaching their children or their employees, etc., for the future. Again, legacy is really, as you would say, your purpose. What will people remember you by?

Yeah, and it's, you know, it's funny because I don't have children, um, but I have nieces and nephews, and I try to lead by example as much as I can because I want to influence them in the right way. And I want them to see that there are different ways of approaching their life, and they don't have to go by, you know, what let's say society in general believes is the right path, right? We have to each choose what the right path is for ourselves. Otherwise, we may never be fulfilled.

Yeah, we're always free to choose. And while circumstances in the environment may dictate in the moment what we can and cannot do, I always— I'm kind of a renegade. It's like, you can always move in another direction, one step, one inch, what have you. There's always a little something in your control, even if it's personal development. If you can't change your situation, if financially you're locked into a particular commitment, you can always do something to take control. So when the time is right, you can move in a direction that is preferable.

Yeah, it's about taking 100% responsibility for ourselves, right? We may not be able to control the circumstances, but we sure as heck can control how we react, how we respond, and what we do with that. And at the end of the day, for me, it boils down to what choices we make.

I value what you say in that because you also can't do it alone. Now, I happen to have a very supportive spouse but also he can't answer or listen to everything that I have to spew about. It is having just trusted partners, a network, a female network, professional network. It can be a coach. And I have had some coaches and mentors along the way that have put a mirror in front of me and, and, and helped me get clear on what I can and cannot do. So definitely don't do this alone.

Yeah, no, for sure. And even more so now that But I think we're in the entrepreneurial space. Yeah, I think that those network partners are so, so very important because you can feel very isolated, right, when you, when you work for yourself. It's like, you know, you go into your office, you're behind your computer, you don't necessarily engage with people the same way that you used to engage when, when in corporate. So fully agree with you on, on the networking piece.

And you never know where the nuggets of wisdom will come forth, either you from them or them. I just met with two people today that every 6 months or 3 to 6 months we get together. What's going on with you? What's happening with me? And the next thing you know, oh, I tried that thing out. And I tell them what I did do and they're like, okay. So you make them feel good that they provided value. Even if we can't do a transaction together, just knowing that we've inspired one to at least get to a higher level is so rewarding. If nothing else, it's good for our ego and our soul.

Yeah, no, absolutely. Absolutely. So was there ever a time when you struggled or things didn't really go exactly the way that you wanted them to go? Um, tell us a little bit about that.

So it does start with a mindset shift rather than— I'll use the phrase, I'm not a Debbie Downer, but I always take the high road on, well, that didn't work, what did I learn from that? And also, is it simply just a sidestep in the grander scheme of things? So obviously I, you, many of us want to have a viable business. And so you lay out a plan and you say, I'm going to make this amount of revenue and this number of followers and all of that. And when it doesn't happen, we're hard on ourselves. But the fact is that, um, I ran into some struggles with business development. I didn't know what business development was. I just thought through the network, people would see me and value and give me a call. And that didn't always happen. So when the revenue wasn't there and it got a little scary for the family unit, I did have to take some contract work. But in the end. At the end of the day, it satisfied certain things. It satisfied a need for financial, uh, peace of mind. It satisfied a want to still provide value for somebody. But I wasn't passionate about it, wasn't passionate about the work, but it served a purpose. We have to be kinder to ourselves to accept those detours. And along the way, I learned a little bit more about what business development is, that even when you are employed with great contract work, you're always on the hunt to build more relationships and create that outreach and eventually that pull for your service and hone your marketing messages and speak what your value is. Had I not had some of those low points, I would have had a false sense of confidence, which I did have. And now I take nothing for granted. I was ultimately still moving forward and learning and growing as a business owner. So yes, it didn't go my way, but now I believe I'm on a better track and moving forward again.

Yeah, I, I truly believe that that things happen for a reason and that they happen exactly when and how they're supposed to happen. Does it necessarily mean I like it? No, no, I would like things to move a little bit faster maybe, or, you know, maybe I don't want the growth spurt that I'm going through, but it's what I need for a future that I cannot see yet for, you know, for myself.

So Yeah, I mean, it's the good, it's the good and the bad. I mean, we talked about what challenges did I have and things didn't go exactly as planned. So again, I learned a few more things, had to work hard at building relationships. But what happens when things happen in a way that, wow, I didn't see that coming, but that's a good direction. Do we stick to our guns? No, that wasn't in the plan. Or do we give ourselves freedom to explore? Because sometimes what we think we're putting out into the world, the value may not be what the world needs. Case in point, point. I'm a speaker, I'm a podcaster, I want to be on a stage. I'm not getting speaking gigs. On the other hand, I am being recognized for my ability to be an active listener, a facilitator of conversation, for which I'm being asked to facilitate panel discussions. That is something that the world needs. And have to say, hmm, do I want to go that direction and make space for it? Or maybe explore it another day, but never throw it away. What the universe is saying that, well, maybe you need to do this even if it wasn't part of the grand And maybe it's—

maybe you need to do this for a little while so that you can get to—

absolutely, everything is a step forward. So again, working hard right now, put a little bit more money in the bank to give me the opportunity to explore some of these other avenues.

Yeah, and I was just going to say something and I completely forgot. It just was in my head and out it went. Okay, that's all right, it'll come back to me. If it comes back to me, I'll bring— I'll put it on.

Absolutely.

Absolutely. So we've talked about change, right? We've talked about growth. Yeah. How have you as a person evolved since you began this journey? Like, are you who you thought you were going to be? Are you happy with how you're— who you're becoming? Or— so tell us a little bit. Tell us a little bit about that.

So I, I really appreciate this question because again, I think differently. I return to the person I once was.

Ah, okay.

So as a child, I would always ask questions. I was very, very talkative. So that's why I'm here with you and I'm on a podcast. I'm always asking questions and I think differently. And over time, I tell the story how the educational system and even corporate would like, hey, we want your input. Put, but can you be quiet now? Or maybe it wasn't accepted or not the right form. And so over time, sometimes we kind of start conforming to what we should be saying and when we should say it. And I just found that when I went through this process, I rediscovered a few things about myself. I cried a lot because I realized my soul wasn't being fulfilled. So while I was biding my time, I was reading books again. I was an avid reader as a child, love, love, love immersing myself in books, podcasts. Oh my I talk about all the new knowledge I was gaining and the confidence that I was building. Like, I can do this. And also I'm reading these books, Who's Holding You Back? The Only Person Holding You Back Is Yourself. And then my love for writing. I used to write. My mother used to think I was gonna be a journalist or a, a book writer or something. And I started writing blog posts just to get my ideas out, get my emotions out. And I would actually come out of flow and tear up because of the joy that I felt getting that idea out. And then even more so when people resonated. So as I went through this process, I realized I could leverage my creative abilities and be appreciated for my thoughts, my listening, and my speaking, and fold that into then the work that I do with companies and individuals. So I pulled myself forward who I once was, and now I really enjoy just being me. I show up here with you. We talked about my outfit wasn't exactly the way I wanted to. It didn't look perfectly coiffed, if we still use that word anymore, but I'm okay with just showing up and flubbing my words because you know what, it's about the message and how I make you and your audience feel. I'm okay with that now, whereas before I used to be very stiff and be what I expect— what people expected me to be, that corporate talking head. And I'm not that person. I'm a person that wants to connect with people, help you to think differently, and help you through your challenges. So I've become the person that I once was.

And I love that because it just— it's a great reminder that when we show up as who we were always intended to be, there's so much joy that comes from that, right? And there, it's like, like you can— it's like you can breathe again because you don't have to conform, or you don't have to like squeeze yourself into whatever box people expect you to be in.

I know, it's just, it's easier to do this. It's just so much easier. It's so much less energy that we have to exert. Now I'll tell you, networking events, I still am uncomfortable only because it's the unknown. It's an uncontrolled environment. Environment. But over time, I build the confidence, want to approach people, introduce myself in a way that sounds interesting, act or be engaged in what they're saying. And then little by little, the intimacy starts evolving, and I can loosen up a little bit and just be me. And if people don't like just me, that's okay. Other people will like me as I am.

Yeah. And I, I think one great way to do that, especially in networking events, is focusing on the other person, right? Because we're there to learn about them, we're there to engage with them. Where for me, it's always about how can I make you feel good, and how can I make sure that you feel that you and I spending this time together enriched you in some way or made you feel good.

It's about that legacy that you leave, even if it's a short encounter.

Yeah. And if I'm pretending to be somebody that I'm not, that doesn't really— that doesn't work.

You know, it's interesting. I just wrote something and I even spoke about it recently on the podcast was, you know, executive presence. And I used to see people walk into a room that just commanded the room. Good looking, great suit, big personality. People would go up and greet them and talk to them. And I said, I wanted to be that person and I would get that nice looking suit, fix my hair a little bit differently. And at the end of the day, that still wasn't executive presence. Presence. When I started being just myself and saying what I thought, acting the way I did, again, still looking like a professional, people started warming up to me. And executive presence comes with that confidence. So again, you have to be yourself and find your way to connect with the people and make them feel well.

No, totally, totally agree with you there. Um, so tell me what your— or tell us what What's been your biggest lesson in this journey?

Probably the one where I had an argument with my husband. He said, Deb, he said, you know, you could be a plant manager, you could be a CEO. And I wouldn't listen to him. I said, no, no, no, I can't do that. I've never done that. I've only been a quality professional, an OpEx professional. I could never do that. And here I am, the founder of my own company as a drop-in leader. I call myself the drop-in CEO for a reason, because I partner with those C-suite leaders that I understand their struggles and I can help them. I am in that capacity now. And the thing that I learned was, first of all, if somebody sees the value that you provide and you don't see it, don't sell yourself short. And I do talk about get rid of the negative mindset, get rid of the 'uns,' the N apostrophe T's, for which I say I can't, I won't, I've never. And think about, well, what if? Do you have at least the skills and capability to fulfill those roles rather than checking yourself out of an opportunity? So I've learned I can be be the creator of my own destiny, the CEO of my own company, and I'll figure the rest out along the way and find people that guide me.

And I think it goes back to what you were saying before, which is you don't have to do it alone. We don't have to do it alone. We can surround ourselves with the people that fill in the bits where maybe we're not so good right now, but that are going to come with time.

Yeah, and again, that's the beauty of networking, building community. You never know what talent you're going to find in the community. I found my book coach, I found a speaking coach, I found a brand coach all along the way. Didn't know I needed them, but in the journey I met these people. And then I said, you know, I want to be on a podcast. I had somebody that could help me be on a podcast. So again, leverage the network, find out what their value is. Again, ask curious questions. You never know when you're going to have to pull on them.

Yeah, no, that's, that's for sure. So what would you tell a woman who is struggling to find her purpose?

You got to talk to somebody. I, I don't think— there's a couple things here. Again, you just got to pause. You got to take a vacation, sabbatical. You need to slow down and just sit and be by yourself. If nothing else, just don't think. Stop thinking for a couple days. That's what weekends were meant for. I had to challenge myself to take my weekends. The only thing I do is maybe just get organized for the rest of the week. But you have to pause because when you give your head some space and don't put anything in it, some beautiful things actually come out of it. When I was writing my book, I didn't read or listen to podcasts because I needed to get the ideas out. And as a woman, we need to have those quiet times, whether it's walking the dog or exercise, to find out What do I love? What am I passionate about? What did I once feel joy in what I was doing before? And pull those feelings forward and then ask yourself what prevents you from doing that. We don't slow down enough. You have to slow down a little bit. And ultimately, if you don't slow down, it's gonna be forced upon you and it may not be at optimal circumstances. Take the time, figure out your purpose or what gives you joy. The rest will fall into place.

It's so true, being able to take that step back, right? And being able to take a breather. You talked about if you don't take the time, the time will be forced upon you. And that's what happened to me because I was, I was on burnout. I was running, running, running, running. And then I had my wake-up call. And, you know, it's something that I had been building to But in a way, I'm glad that I had my trigger because I was like, okay, that's it, I'm done. And I think it's important to maximize those moments when we have those wake-up calls instead of bearing down and saying, okay, let me just deal with this and then I'll go back to doing the same thing, is okay, let me deal with this. What else What else can I do? What, what other options are out there for me?

And just you, Alex, creating these, you know, podcast interviews with others. I think anybody that's going to be watching or listening to this, think about your current situation. And if not you, do you have a friend that is going through tremendous stress and hasn't found their purpose? Be a friend and talk to them and say, there are women, there are organizations, coaches, mentors that are here to help you because we've all been through it and we just don't want you to struggle as much. Sometimes even just an hour conversation, 30-minute conversation with somebody from the outside asking a few questions might be all you need for the light bulb to go on and take some alternative action.

Totally agree. I think it, you know, being able to get the perspective of somebody on the outside. Yes. Is it's absolutely invaluable. All right. So we're going to wrap up in a second, but I have a couple more questions for you or two things. Um, are you willing to share a recent win with us?

Yes. I, if I didn't mention this before, I feel super excited for this, is that, um, I haven't gotten the gig yet, but just being asked, just being asked is a win. So I've talked about being on a stage. I want to be a speaker, but the world isn't giving me that. But instead, I've been approached to be an emcee for a 3-day event for an organization that I'm associated with. And so just being asked is the whether I get it or not, you know, the universe will reward me or not. But they found value. I left a legacy. I left an impression with the organizer of the event on how I'm able to bring value and create an experience versus just reading a note card and introducing people. I feel exceptionally grateful in knowing that it's not just my technical skills, but these skills of being able to message, communicate are also valuable are pulling me in that direction of that passionate work that I would love to do. So that is a win. And thank you for the opportunity to share.

Oh, my pleasure. So you talked a little bit about, you know, what you're grateful in the context of your win. Is there anything else that you're grateful for that you would want to share?

I mean, these are common things. I am grateful for good health, and that's why one of my goals this year is to focus on wellness such that this Energizer Bunny can keep doing more, but maybe by doing a little bit less and getting some more sleep. I'm certainly just grateful for just the people like you that we've rekindled a friendship along the way and finding some purpose and creating some content and just the family that I have. I mean, I love the family. I love creating experiences, serving food, creating all kinds of experiences, um, because again, that feeds my soul and I can feed other people's soul. I know they're simple, but those are things that I'm grateful for because nothing else really matters.

Yeah, they're the important things, right? Sure. So how do people find you if they're interested in working with you or they'd like to learn more? Tell us a little bit about that.

Yeah, so, uh, easy to find me. I am very active, active on LinkedIn. Look for Deborah A. Coviello or The Drop-In CEO. I will respond to you. There is no admin behind the scenes. It is me talking to you direct. But also you can catch me. Does this sound like a podcast? My website, dropinCEO.com. There you can find a little bit more about my services as well as a contact me. I would love, love just to get to know you, uh, build a relationship and find out how we can be in service to you. So LinkedIn and dropinCEO.com.

Great. And then anything, um, anything you want to share about the podcast or anything else?

Yes. So, um, I again sincerely appreciate the time Alex, uh, given me the opportunity, as well as I just love the offers and how you have a platform for helping women. But I also have a platform for helping the C-suite leader of today and tomorrow, male or female. I don't care about the demographic. I just want you to struggle less. I have a once-a-month forum called the Drop-In CEO Collective where I bring together leaders for networking, building up your essential skills, and spot coaching, all complimentary.

Mentoring.

So if you know of anybody or you are out there, would love to bring you in. And again, reach out to me on LinkedIn or my website and we can send you an invitation.

Great, thank you. And I'm going to put all of your details in the, um, you know, in the— I was going to say show notes, it's just in the comments so that people know how to find you and everything. But look, I just want to say a super thank you. It's been such an honor to have you here. I've had a good time. I've learned a lot. I love our interaction. It's always such a pleasure to spend time with you, Deb, and, um, I guess we'll see each other around.

All right, thank you so much, Alex.

Thanks, Deb. Take care.