What Every Divorced Woman Needs to Know About Money

Hello, heroines! This is Alex. Happy Thursday! We are almost at the end of the week. Who would have thunk? It's going by so fast these days. So today I wanted to bring you Hope LaFrance because Hope is, um, I think the first financial coach that we've had in the platform. So definitely wanted to bring her in because Finances, I know, is usually top of mind. There's a lot of uncertainty coming out of an uncoupling. So being able to kind of get our bearings and figure out a little bit, okay, how, how do I navigate this? So this is our chance to ask Hope all the questions. So Hope, why don't you go ahead, tell us where you're from and what you do. Awesome.

Well, thanks for having me here, Alex. This is such a great opportunity. Yeah, my name is Hope LaFrance, as you can see, and I hail out of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. I always make sure to be very specific on that because now in Zoom land and virtual world, you never really know who you're able to connect with, but it's kind of cool. And yeah, I mean, for myself, I was actually introduced to, you know, working in the financial sector probably just shy of 10 years ago now. And, you know, we all have an interesting story. I actually went through the process of my, you know, separation, etc., while building my business in the realm of money and finance. So it was messy on my end, and I was, you know, working on helping, you know, other people clean up their mess too. And it was one big mess, but it's beautiful at the same time because it really brings people together in some of our toughest times.

Right?

So it's a blessing.

Yeah, and it's— I love that you do what you do because I've met many women who have always left all the financial decisions to their partner because either they were stay-at-home moms or, you know, they had their own career and they took care of their finances but didn't really take care of the, the house finances, so to speak. And things can come sometimes as surprises, right? When you go through something like this, I ended up with thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars in debt because my former husband used my credit to build his business. And I ended up owning that debt, which was not cool. So when you work with your clients, um, what are usually the types of things that they come to see you for?

Yeah, actually, so it's funny, especially going through these situations, it's, it's very interesting. Typically when I'm working with families, I'm always adamant that I work with a couple, uh, for a few different reasons. Um, I want to identify is is there strength within that, that partnership? And what I mean by that is, are both open to communicating with the other? And if I find that that is not necessarily the case, I know to kind of read between the lines that perhaps, you know, there's some secrecy, or maybe some financial abuse, or maybe, you know, some, some inequality. And so then it allows me sometimes to open up that conversation and And there's been times where I've, you know, sat down with the woman one-on-one and, and, you know, kind of help try to, try to figure out, okay, are you happy? Are you safe? Right? I mean, it's really, really unfortunate that we need to have these conversations nowadays, although it takes one to know one. So it, you know, it's nice to be able to be that person for other people. But when I find that right off the bat a couple is not willing to sit down together that's kind of a tipping, you know, they're tipping their hand a little bit, I guess you could say, that things aren't necessarily the way they could be, not as healthy as they could be. And that's not obviously across the board. That's just one piece of very many pieces of the puzzle. Although when we're talking, you know, aftercare and after the fact or during a separation, I think the biggest thing that one can provide in this space is just the emotional support. Um, and, and taking away the shame, because there's a lot of shame when it comes to money and finance. A lot of, you know, why did I let that happen, right? Um, how could I be so stupid, right? Like, we hear all these things, and like, you weren't stupid. You didn't let it happen. It's a thing that happened, and we can pick up the pieces, and you're not alone doing that, right? And this wasn't your fault. Now we're in a situation where we can learn from, from what we've been through, be better for it. If we're parents, we can be better parents for it, right? Create a better example. And it's kind of, I mean, not to sound, you know, kind of silly, but kind of like a phoenix rising from the ashes, getting that, that fresh start, that new beginning. And so just, yeah, the biggest thing would be taking away that shame piece for sure.

Yeah, I agree with you. I think there is a shame and guilt, I would say, as well, along with that. So when working with a couple, because we have women at different stages of the process in the group, so when you're working with a couple, um, and you find that there's that kind of weirdness, let's just say, for lack of a better word, um, what questions should the partner ask? I'm assuming the guy's being weird and the woman is right, doesn't have— doesn't know what's going on, because otherwise I'm talking in circles and have no idea what I'm saying. So what questions would you encourage the woman to ask her husband in terms of— to kind of try to clear the air, discussions that they may have to have, you know, off off camera, so to speak?

Yeah, that's a really good question because I actually, when I see that dynamic happen, and honestly, Alex, it's not all bad. Sometimes it can be humorous because typically when working with a couple, there's one who knows everything about the finance and one who knows not a whole lot, which is a little bit dangerous. So we try to make it a little bit more even. And sometimes it's simply based on, well, that's what my mom and dad did, right? So that's what we're going to do. Okay, well, things are a little bit different now, right? Um, but in the cases where there's inequality, you know, and, and maybe some secrecy and things like this, I'm really happy when things come to light when I'm in the room. Um, because it's really tough in that scenario to hold your partner accountable, because if there's been a pattern happening for so long, it's going to be tough for that other individual who's probably, you know, the less dominant one in the couple to ask those types of questions. They probably won't, quite frankly. And I, I will train as much as I can and help support them and say, this is what you need to look out for. You know, I, I can't even think off the top of my head what it would be because there's been so many scenarios that are just so unique. And that's why I think sitting down one-on-one and having those customized conversations are really, really, you special. But it's, you know, Alex, it's funny, it's less the things that are said in that meeting and more the eye contact that I'll make with the woman just to say, hey, are you catching on to this? And then I'll be the one to challenge, you know, the man, or sometimes it's reversed. But I know who I'm talking with in this group, right? And the reality is we're all gals who have experienced some stuff, so let's be real. Um, but I don't mind being that challenger because I'm so grateful that I had that individual to speak up when I couldn't, um, in my marriage. Um, otherwise, I, I'm, I'm genuinely scared to, to, to think of where I would be today had I not had that, that powerful woman challenge us where we were at. For sure, I was much in the same situation as you, Alex., you know, oodles of debt, using Peter to pay Paul, looking for the next zero balance credit card. And, you know, the irony in all of that is I was the lower income earner, so that should have been a bit of a tip-off right there. If my partner's earning more yet I need to co-sign for all these things, what's going on behind the scenes, right? So maybe that's one of those questions, right, that one should ask. Um, and again, it was just lack of education up until that point.

You know, I'm starting to think that I need to buy a little red flag so anytime somebody said something that's like, okay, red flag, I can sit here and wave the flag. Um, so when, when you work with women coming out of a divorce Um, take us through that process a little bit because they might be in a situation where they have to rebuild their financial life, or they are now receiving part of a retirement fund or part of 401k or whatever the case may be, and they're like, what do I do with all this? So take us through that process a little bit.

Yeah, well, it's interesting because again, because money is such an emotional thing, sometimes I'll have the women who, you know, will, will, will preserve it as much as possible because they never want to find themselves in that situation again, and no one's ever going to do that to them. And then we find the other, you know, the others, you know, side of the, the spectrum where it's like, I'm gonna spend it all because I deserve it, and you only live once, and then now it's my time to really live my life. So they're all really interesting conversations, one to the next. But the first thing, and I always say I never get paid to tell people this, but you gotta have a good solid emergency fund because yeah, we never want this to happen to you again, right? Having that good solid emergency fund, making sure there's money that's liquid, right, that you can access. Are there debts maybe that we need to take care of? Sometimes it makes sense to take care of them sooner rather than later, right? Do you have proper protection in place? Are you now a single parent? And God forbid you pass away, you know, how are we going to support the kids, right? Um, protecting your income. Again, you're the sole income earner whether you have kids or not. If you don't have an income and you're sick, well, unfortunately the bills don't stop when we get sick. In fact, you know, God bless Canada, and we live with free healthcare. And I know maybe some of the gals here are in the States and and it's a little bit of a different scenario. In any case, we got to make sure that we have something to protect our income, right? Um, and then, you know, hey, if there's money that we can get working harder, let's provide some education around that. And again, really step-by-step education, not, you know, talking all this jargon that people don't even understand, right? But really leveling, right, and speaking their language, I think is so important. You know, we're a group of pretty sharp gals. And I feel like, you know, more often than not, we're not necessarily given the credit that we're due when it comes to these things. And so just, it's really also too very special to create that space where you can allow a woman to kind of show off a little bit and be like, yeah, you know, and then you see the sparkle off in their eye and they're finding their feet in this world. And it's just, it's really, really, really special.

Yeah, I, I totally hear you on that one. Um, if I'm thinking of somebody who has not had the opportunity really to manage their own money and who was not necessarily involved in financial decisions, um, in my mind I see, okay, let's start with figuring out what's coming in, then what's coming out. Making sure we have a balanced budget, then, you know, do we focus on debt reduction, then do we focus on— so kind of like, what are the different pillars that you think are important for a woman to have really a solid financial foundation for the new life that they're creating for themselves?

Yeah, no, and that's a really great question because around that, when you've kind of— you're going into uncharted territory, plus dealing with the emotional baggage of a separation or divorce, the first word that comes to mind is insecurity, right? It doesn't matter how much money in the world you have. In fact, sometimes more in that case can create more of a sense of insecurity. So again, great question. What do we do with this, right? I think, you know, again, boiling down to the basics of, like you said, money coming in and money going out, right? What is our budget? And more often than not, we've done this if we've had a lawyer and things like that. You know, we'll go over expenses and stuff like that, but understanding what does that look like? Again, having that contingency fund or that emergency fund, analyzing the debt side of things. Is it something that, you know, did we come into a big influx of cash and we can just eliminate it? Well, potentially we could. But then we also need to at the same time work on the mindset around debt as well, because there's been some instances where you can get out of debt, but you'll fall right back into it because we've worked on the surface level, but we haven't really worked on the heart around it or the mindset around it. So I think that's really, really important to talk about because for me, as I'm, you know, helping families and helping women, it's about realizing real change in this space. Not just continuing the cycle. And then again, making sure that, you know, a woman is properly protected. It's, you know, it's interesting, especially the whole concept of, you know, the man goes out and, you know, brings home the bacon and the woman is the homemaker and, you know, whatever the case may be. I don't know about you, but that brings a whole lot of value, right? You know, what's a man gonna do, for example, when, you know, mom passes away? He still needs to go work. What are you going to do with the kids, right? So I think sometimes, again, we fall into that identity of, oh, I'm— I was just a housewife, right? Well, no, you— it's like the largest service you could do and the most underpaid, right? So let's be real. So it provides a whole lot of value. So again, the mindset of You're a valuable human being, right? And you bring value to this and your kids are lucky to have you. And God forbid, you know, you're no longer there. Like, just again, it's not always about the money, but it's about the mindset and the heart set surrounding it. And especially coming out of something so fragile, I think it's important to create that space. And sometimes, Alex, people are ready to, to, to, to hit the ground running. And then sometimes people need some time. Um, and you know, sometimes can time hurt? Yes, but also moving too quickly when someone is not ready can also be just as detrimental. So also finding someone patient in this space is really, really key.

Yeah, it's, um, it— there's all of this kind of like sensitivity around the topic of money, right? Yeah. Um, and so when I came out of my divorce, I had to pay my husband, ex-husband, alimony. Yeah. And like all of a sudden I had like this huge chunk of my salary was like not in my pocket anymore. So what's a good way for someone to manage that if they find themselves in that situation?

Yeah, that's, that's a great question. Um, I, I would presume, right, a lot of bitterness and resentment would be kind of all-encompassing.

That—

correct me if I'm wrong, Alex.

At the time, yes, I was pretty pissed off.

Totally right.

Yeah.

So, so I guess, you know, it's something to counteract that, and this might be a, you know, a too soon kind of moment for some gals, but, you know, essentially finding gratitude. Like, thank goodness, you know, that, that I, I can, you know, take care of that and that's not a problem. But now how do I take care of me, right?

Um, and thank goodness it's not more, right?

Yeah, exactly. 100%. Thank goodness it's not more. That's a great way to look at it. Um, clearly, Alex, you've worked on your gratitude. Surrounding that. So I'm glad to hear there's a bit of repair there. Um, I, I would say this, I mean, and this is the tough one, is that typically when it comes to just the financial landscape as a whole right now, it's, it's a cash flow problem, right? You know, how do we earn more cash flow? And sometimes it, it's tough, you know, it's tough to see, you know, people have to pick up an extra part-time job and now maybe it's taking away from the the quality time that they could be having with their family. Sometimes we just got to get creative, right? Again, if it's a scenario where there's kids involved and you're one week on, one week off, well, maybe on your week off, you, I don't know, grab an extra part-time income, something like that. Sometimes that can actually help with the healing process because now you're involving yourself in something new and maybe you're a little bit more social. It's forcing you to get out of your shell a little bit. Perhaps, perhaps, you know, looking at how do we get our money working harder, right? That could be another strategy of kind of offsetting, you know, that extra now expenditure, right? But again, it's really figuring out, okay, money in, money out. I think having someone in your court who can help you think outside the box, get resourceful, I really think that's the biggest thing because especially, and I'll use myself as an example, um, you know, when I had an influx of cash, I'd been working in the industry for, I don't know, 7 years, and I, I sat on it for so long that the check became invalid. They needed to issue a new one because I didn't— because there was so much to that emotional attachment, I didn't know what to do with it, right? So I needed to go to my broker, um, and, and ask her to help me think outside the box a little bit. So it's really— it's oftentimes great to have someone in your court to be able to do that.

Yeah, I think that's a common theme that I'm seeing regardless of who's coming in. I think that sense of community, that sense of support, that sense of having people that you can call on or that you can rely on that are going to be there to support you on the journey and That's why we're here, right? That's why we do the work that we do. So one last thing before I let you run off. Anything that we haven't touched on that you think is important for the heroines in the book to know?

Ah, good question. I would say be proud of yourself for how far you've come. And stay excited for the journey that you're on. Those are the words that come to mind because, you know, sometimes we can become a little bit stagnant or a little bit complacent, but a divorce or a separation or whatever, it's not the end, right? It's just the beginning of, of something new. And I think learning to embrace the newness and rediscovering who you are right? And seeing yourself and loving yourself with new eyes, um, I think is really, really important. And, um, you touched on a word that hits really close to my values, is community. We're not meant to do life alone. And I can promise you, when you want to isolate the most, that's when you need to reach out the most. And it's going to be the hardest thing to do, but it's, it's going to be the most beneficial. I promise you. That would be the thing that I would leave you with.

I love it. You just gave me goosebumps. So, Hope, thank you so much for being here and sharing and demystifying a little bit what's going on around finances, because it's like we've been saying, a bit of a loaded topic, let's just say.