001 MU Talks - First Episode- Catch The Vision

Foreign. Welcome to the first podcast ever called MU Talks, Multoma University Talks. This is your co host and co host. We're two co hosts here. So Alim Brancilla, here I am. I work at Multiversity and then I.

Am with Rob Hildebrandt. I am one of the faculty members here. Faculty moderator, actually.

Faculty moderator, right.

Not as good as cao, but, you know, we'll take it.

Yeah, we'll take the faculty moderator. So we are recording our first ever podcast. I'm super excited about that because we. I'm excited to actually share with you all kinds of things happening in, in the world of academia, in our life, in everything that's going on. The purpose of this, the purpose of the. The podcast is to really help think through what we're experiencing, the people we're meeting, the things that we are actually witnessing here in Multnomah University in our daily lives, in our walk with Christ, in our. In our godly, you know, walk with Christ and share them with the world and invite you to join us in that. Right. So that's how excited I am to share with this. So, Rob.

Yeah.

Some thoughts.

Yeah. Yeah, we're excited about. We figure we're out of school. We got a lot of smart people here, got a lot of interesting people from different places and different stories. And so it would be a great. A great opportunity for us to come and just talk about things that are going on in the world, things in our lives. We try to be honest, we're trying to be open and have some good conversations.

You might help us with the name down the road. We started with MU talks basically, because that's what it is. It's just discussions. But you might help us with your comments.

And our ideas are not good so far over the wall or the Ivory Tower Bridge.

Like, literally everything was cheesy, just super cheesy. We had. We had two guys in here that were fixing something with the walls.

They're mocking us out.

They listen to our. They were. And they're all. They're students.

No, our workers.

They're workers here, but they're much younger than us.

Yeah.

And they looked at our ideas because we're old. Okay. They're like, cheesy. And they walked out. Right.

I believe they said cheesy. That was the word.

They're like, that's cheesy. And they walked out. So you might help us with the name for this down the road, but this is what's happening. And, and I think you're going to appreciate that from the get go from the first podcast. I've been working at Multoma for seven months now. Rob, you've been.

Yeah, like 15 years.

15 years. This is a great opportunity for me to actually have some meaningful conversations with Rob and get to know Rob better and also everybody that we're going to bring in this podcast in the show. So that's what we're going to do. Actually, this first episode, I'm going to. We're going to like, walk you through our life story, how we made it here, why we're here, what we do, and then go straight to walking a little bit of what we want to accomplish with the podcast. And that's going to be our first podcast with maybe even talk about what kind of topics we want to talk next. And maybe you can help us a little bit with what topics you want to hear and what kind of people you want us to have on the show. So I'll let Rob start with a little bit of your life story, who you are.

Yeah. So I'm Canadian. Married. A Canadian. One wife, two kids, one dog. Currently grew up. I grew up on a old World War II military base which had been purchased and turned into a Bible college in, like, right after World War II.

The metaphor is.

I know.

Yeah.

Yeah. Is it Canada? Like Saskatchewan? It's an acquired taste. I love Saskatchewan. All you Saskatchewan people out there, the Go Riders. But it's cold and it's. There's, you know, there's bugs and. But I love. I love growing up there because it was maybe a couple thousand Christians, a lot of young people all in one campus. Grandpa started the school. Felt the call of God early on in life. I'm sure we'll talk about that at some point. Met my wife when I was 16, at camp. Fell in love, randomly asked her on a date. Two of us counselors were bored, and we're like, what should we do? And he's like, let's go on a date.

And I said, who should we ask?

And he goes like, just ask the two cutest girls in camp, which is so shallow. Don't do that. That's terrible. Yeah, but he worked for you. It took me a while to convince her to come, but so we went to. Actually, we went to a garbage dump and we barbecued pizza. But then, because we're going to watch the bears. This is Canada.

Oh, wow.

I'm an immigrant.

You're watching the bears on your first day?

We were trying to, but it was locked, so the dump idea didn't work. We actually went to an oil derrick and just played wide games with the four of us and fell in love. Finished Bible college. I wanted to get married. We were young again. We met at 16. So by the time I was like 18, 17 even, I kind of knew I wanted to marry her. Had to negotiate with my parents. And so I said, how about if I finish Bible college in three years, you let me marry her after the second year?

Oh, wow.

And so we got married. We were 19, and then finished up Briarcrest and went to Trinity Evangelical Divinity School. Started working in churches, worked working camps for about seven years. I loved youth ministry. I thought I was going to be like a Bible teacher, a new Testament teacher, because my dad was a little testament teacher. But as we got into it, I just fell in love with youth ministry and kids and ended up staying for 15 years working with young people in Canada, mostly Lethbridge, some British Columbia, a little bit of Manitoba. And then a friend I worked with in Multnomah, I started working on a doctor at Providence Theological Seminary. And a friend I had who had come out and worked at Multnomah said, hey, you should come. We're hiring a youth men guy. You want to come work in the United States of America? I said, I've heard good things about the United States. No, obviously everybody wants. Everybody loves the United States. But, you know, I didn't really want to be an immigrant, so I was like, ah, maybe. So we flew out, loved the students, fell in love with the students, and just thought about the potential of what could happen here with all these great kids. And so we moved our family, put everything in a big 52 foot truck and drove out here and been here for 15 years. Best job ever had. No offense to the churches. I love them too.

Oh, wow.

Yeah.

That's exciting.

Yeah.

So hold on. You can't stop your life story there because I actually don't know anybody as adventurous and as crazy, I'm gonna say crazy, as you right now, because you just did something. Oh, absolutely ridiculous and beautiful and inspiring. So what did you do?

Well, we bought a castle.

You bought a cast.

This is funny. I was thinking about our life right now. We have live in Happy Valley. We got four bathrooms.

Okay.

We're going to move on campus next year. One bathroom, and then in the off season, we'll have 21 bathrooms.

21 bathrooms.

Kind of a funny life. Yeah, boy, interesting life. Grew up poor, you know, parents were in ministry, wanted to serve God, you know, Got to Multnomah a couple of years ago. Boy, what to say. Parents were. My parents were killed in a car accident when I was 24. So that threw our life for a pretty significant, I don't know, change. It helped pay off part of our house, so that helped us financially. It's the only way we could come to America. It's so expensive, you know, to buy property in Portland. But we got into house and. And then we got out here and started teaching and. And then a few years ago, I mean, I won't go into too many details, but the. We were looking at the world and of course, we've done a lot of mission trips and camps with kids and we. You see the incredible ministry that happens and just being together and living together. Started doing as some of our classes, we take kids overseas to Germany or Japan. Loved it. It was meaningful. And we thought, man, maybe we could do a bit of a study abroad program. And so Leslie's like, you know, castles are really cheap in France. And I was like, what castles? So actually we were thinking, that's crazy, but there's 40,000 chateau in France.

40,000?

40,000, yeah. A lot of them empty, just the taxes and stuff like that. And so about a year ago or two, we took a trip over and looked at 15, and they're incredible. And we picked our best one and two years later, ran a study abroad last year with about 20 kids and then came back and we bought it, like over Christmas.

You bought a castle in France?

Pretty scary.

This is the craziest thing. Oh, I love it. I love it. It's also inspiring and it's like crazy inspiring.

Yeah, it's scary.

It is scary.

We could lose a whack load of money.

Oh, yeah, yeah. But.

Yeah, you know, but it's a kingdom. Yeah.

It's pure God. Oh, yeah, That's. That's exciting. And you teach here. What do you teach? Tell me a little bit about a.

Good call, a practical theology. So I chair the practical theology division. I teach youth ministry, youth and educational ministries, and leading the ministry and pastoral leadership department here next year as well.

Okay.

Yeah.

So that's exciting. The reason I say that is because one of the topics, I mean, two topics already that we're going to talk about that we're going to cover in the. In the next. In next season. Very quick here at MU talks.

Yeah.

One is grief and loss.

Yeah, right.

You've experienced your share of loss. Diane and I experience our share of grief and loss. And just unpacking that a little bit.

Right.

From people that have experienced it. We have a Good number of, you know, counseling specialists and counseling majors here at Multiple. We can bring some of those people in and really help us unpack some of those things. Maybe we can do a live session of helping us deal with some of our craziness.

Yeah, Not a bad idea.

Not a bad idea. But that's one. Another one that actually we're really passionate about, and I'm passionate about. We have. We share that background. I'm going on almost 18 years of youth men in my life. Can't believe that is youth men and next generation. And how do we really, you know, get involved in that discussion? Right. So I'm excited to bring some of those topics. I think those are going to be a revolving topic. We bring it back every. Every chance we have. So that's exciting.

Great.

Anything else? Anything else about that we should know?

That's. That's pretty good.

I should have had that questionnaire that give everybody, like, would you do that? Right.

Yeah. How about you? What's. What about you? Tell us your story if you got time. Yeah, yeah, we got time.

We got time. Yeah, we got a few minutes.

The Internet's got lots.

So I actually. So it's interesting. So you grew up in Canada. You're born in Canada. Grew up in Canada. Right. How old were you when you came?

When I came, what, 35. 35, something like that.

Yeah. So I actually was born and raised and grew up in Romania. Anybody knows where Romania is? Romania. That'll be.

Take a look at the Facebook.

Yeah, let's look on Facebook. Anybody knows?

People are watching.

People are watching. Yes, that's it. So it's in Eastern Europe. And when I was born there, it was a socialist communist country. And actually the worst years of Romania's communism, worst years were from 1980 to 1989.

Wow.

That's when I was born.

Yeah.

So. Because fascinating enough, Ceausescu, which is the, you know, the guy he had. He went and visited North Korea out of all the countries, right. He. He was like, hey, let me visit counterpart here and visited North Korea. And there he got a dream that he's going to make a nation worship him instead of, you know, anything else.

That probably didn't work out so good.

It didn't work out good. And he starved his own people. So I grew up on half a bread a day per family. You had a car, they would punch it right. Lines everywhere, the whole thing. So we grew up. It's fascinating because if I look back to my childhood, I actually don't see necessarily suffering, even though we Were deprived, but we didn't know. I was a kid, I didn't know I was deprived of a lot of things. You just didn't know, like, hey, we don't have stuff. So that's. That's how we grew up. I will Never forget. So 19, 1989, revolution. Charles Esque fell. They actually shot him in front of everybody on live tv. So this is a whole generation that was born in that generation. Got to see how our dictator was like, like, straight up killed in front of everybody. Yeah, it's really stays with everybody. Everybody that is in that generation knows, like, that's right in front of everybody.

Right.

So you grew up like that, but 1990, Romania became a, you know, like democracy and, you know, moved into that space. And so I kind of feel like I lived two or three lives because you grew up there in that kind of life. And then, well, I was eight, nine. And then you have, like, that in between, period, right? Where, like, the country's trying to find itself, you know, and so all the things come in. And I will forever remember, like, Americans came to Romania to start adopting kids because the kids were just.

Oh, that's right.

It was. The situation was really bad. And. And it was easy to adopt because there were no laws. The country was figuring itself out. Right. So people would come. I will never, ever forget, like, the first time I saw Americans, and I was like, oh, my goodness, these are aliens. Like, who are these people? They're so cool. They have gum. Like, literally, like. Right. It was just. It was fascinating to see. And they came in, and that's how I learned English. I was 11 years old. They came in, I heard them speaking for the first time. And then when they came next, I started talking to them. For me, it was music. So it was really cool. Very passionate about. Because everybody that came were mostly Christians. So I got, you know, experienced like, a good number of, like, wonderful people.

Yeah.

People of God coming. One lady came to Romania to adopt a child. She brought that child. So this is back, like, ancient history of Romania. She brought that child in. In a blanket. Like, he was just bare bones, right. Brought it to the house right next to us and washed that child and took it back to America and. And healed that baby boy back to life because he was in really rough conditions. I mean, just healed him back to life and loved on him. And I actually caught up with that story. And he got first prize in math for the whole state of Texas. And, you know, she brought him back from a dark place. So we got to see Those stories of faith and loving and all that. But so grew up there. That's basically my legacy. I'll carry that with me. I have a very, very soft spot for people in the world where they're suffering and hunger and all that. That will forever stay with me.

It's a big world.

It's really. It's a big world, and. And I have a soft spot for that.

How'd you come to America, though?

So I came when I was 25. A church in San Francisco invited me because I was in Utman, and I was really passionate about that. And the pastor from that church, from the Romanian American Church in San Frisco, knew me, and he was like, hey, we need some help with the youth ministry. Can you come and help us? Wow. And I came only for two years. I wanted to come in and help the church, and we had a great time. Loved that church. Loved the people there. They, you know, it was really hard ministry, but awesome people. And came and stayed. And then I got involved with the master's degree. I did my master's in San Francisco in intercultural studies. Loved all about that, really. I got exposed to American education, and I fell in love for. For life. It was just very different concept of education that I experienced. And I was. I was planning going back in Eastern Europe because I was really involved in ministry all over the country. And I met Diane, my wife. I met her at the engagement party of one of my best friends. And so I saw her. She didn't saw me. She didn't see me. So it was really.

Now, how is she in the country?

Because she was born here.

Oh, she's.

Okay. So she's not born here. She is Romanian in family.

Okay, I see. All right.

So that's how. That's how it started. But then got involved with ministry. I was in youth ministry in San Francisco, in Portland, and in Chicago for five years. And then we moved to Chicago. I actually applied for Moody Bible Institute to. For an adjunct position. Position. They hired me. My background is tech, actually computer science, but then ministry. I've always kept that side. And got involved as an adjunct professor there. And they hired me, and I had a good ride with them for 8 years. Worked with Modi Bible Institute. 2009, started got involved with the ministry in South Sudan.

Yep.

And been involved there ever since. Very passionate about those people.

You know, that's on the social media.

You know, that soft spot. It's called Grain for Pain. Yeah, it was a campaign. It started as a campaign, part of a ministry called MIA Kwadang powerful story for another time. And, and then ever since been involved with that. And last year, so we moved back to Portland a few years ago. We had some kids. So I'm married. Diane. We have, we have two daughters, Josephine Kate and Isla Joy. Three and a half, two years old and then one on the way. Right.

Yeah. Exciting.

Yeah, very exciting. I have a boy on the way.

Yeah.

And, and last summer I saw a post for Multoma University and super excited about it. Super excited about it. And I applied and they hire me.

Yeah. And got promoted.

Got promoted. Yeah. So that's, that's what's going on. But yeah, quite passionate about a few things. Higher education, lifelong learning. So that's why these discussions, I want us to kind of keep them alive in that area of how do we become lifelong learners. I'll. I'll give a shout out to one venue that is going to come back here often and it's called Mult Plus.

Yeah.

More to come about that at the end of this month. Hopefully in one episode get a few people here to talk about it. But it's basically bridging the academic world with the training world and with the life skill kind of situation and see if we can get some of that knowledge out there in the world. And so very passionate about that and passionate about ministry and church, God and his people. So that's why, let's see if we can bring some of the people to the show.

And yeah, I mean it's interesting times in the world.

Yep. Anything else you want to share about you about?

Oh, that's, that's pretty much it.

So let's envision. Is there. I'm. I'm curious if there are any, any questions on live here. Oh, thank you. Thank you. Cornelia, she was like, you got a question? No, I just got a shout out that like Cornelia was. She was like, you're a wonderful person. So I had to read it in the podcast.

Right?

Like I had to read it in the podcast. Yeah, it had to be read.

I think I also have that I'm a wonderful person. Do you actually not know?

So for the ones that, for the people that are listening to us, that are listening to us, like in this podcast, in this audio, we're also doing Facebook Live and we do that because we want to connect with the people and see. So if anybody has any questions, do ask us any kind of question. So let's talk a little bit about multiversity, what we do here. So you already heard. Can you talk a little bit about your area?

Yeah, let's see. Church men, youth men. We have some great guys. They laugh a lot. They're out there changing lives. Our, our youth men students all a lot of them, they work in churches. A lot of them, a lot of them end up getting hired before they even finish. It's. It seems like in the world today there's a lot of churches looking for youth workers and not, not as many people going for the job. So it's. I don't know if that's a buyer's market, a seller's market, but we probably get like three, three churches for every student we have looking for students so they have a chance to change the world. They're a good bunch and it's, I really like to get to know them.

Oh perfect.

Yeah.

So at, at Multnomah University and the reason I give a shout out to Multiverse because we're right here. Literally we're in the, we both were.

From, we both work from.

And this is called MU Talks, which is multiversity talks and it frames our conversation because these are the, the people that we're going to bring in front of you. A lot of them from here.

Right. Portland, Oregon.

Portland Oregon. Portland Oregon Multiversity Multoma Edu M U L T N O M A H Edu the waterfall. The waterfall. So the reason I give a shout out is because those a lot of people that we're going to bring to you. Right. We're going to bring them in front of you. So Malnoy University has 31 programs, 31 programs in all kinds of things. So one of them like we have Bible, theology, business, psychology, counseling. Right. So we have psychology counseling. We can bring some of those people here especially if you're going to ask, ask us questions that are way beyond our pay grade.

Sure.

And then we have youth men and both passionate about that. So I'm just throwing some topics out there that you can actually think through and say hey, we're interested in that. Tell us more about that. We can bring some people on.

Yeah.

And so what else? We have biology and science.

Yeah.

So arts and science. Right. We have history, we have English. Well, I'm missing a lot of them. Right.

Because they're 31 worship. Global studies.

You said global studies. All maximum seminary.

Right.

A lot of. And then we have Multoma University online Muo Shout out to muo. We have applied psychology there. We're launching a master of Arts in non profit management. Right. So even all the way in the non profit world. So there are a lot of programs that we have here, but a lot of really good people. I mean, talented, talented, excellent people. Right?

Yeah.

So those are some of the people that we want to bring in front of you. So if you. If you have questions, please don't hesitate. Like, if you. If you hear this podcast somewhere, I don't know, anywhere, then. Then just shout out to us.

Right.

Write to us on. On social media. Let us know what do you want to hear more?

Yeah.

Right.

Gonna be fun.

One thing I want to share, and maybe you want to share something about Multoma University, but I met recently with somebody with a group of people, and they're all passionate about, like, homeschooling and all that. We're talking about all kinds of things. And. And multi University wants to definitely support everything that happens in that world. But this person was across the table from me, and they said, Hey, 60 years ago, I came to Multnomah University. 66. 0. 60 years ago, I came to Multnomah University, and this is where I heard God's calling, follow me. Right? They said, I was here, and I heard God's calling say, follow me. And that's 60 years ago. Multnomah University, Multnomah School of the Bible. Yeah. Back in the day. And that's where, like, they're still here, we're still here, still on the west coast of America, really proclaiming God's word and passionate about that. So that's one thing that I'm really excited to join into that legacy. It was so excited to sit across the table for somebody that says, 60 years ago, I was here and it changed my life. Right?

Yeah. We're fortunate to work in a place where it has changed lives for decades and decades and decades. And honestly, like, I guess I grew up at a pretty similar school, Bible school, back in the day. And just the sacrifice that people have put in over the years, like, there are people that worked really, really hard and sacrificed a lot to make this place great. And. And so that's a. That's a privilege. It's an honor. It's a responsibility, I think, for those of us that are working here now to keep that going. Because this has been a big. I think this has been a big part of the kingdom of God. And there's. Lord knows in today's world, there's. There's work that needs to be done.

Yep. So I know we talk about multiversity, but I do want to put this caveat in here. This podcast is not affiliated with Multoma because we want to be free to talk about all kinds of craziness and we are not going to shy away.

From talking about Ministry of Propaganda.

There's no Ministry of Propaganda. So I want to say that because I really want us to unpack all kinds of topics. I mean, all kinds of topics. You have two people that are immigrants to this country. Do you really think we're not going to talk about immigration at a certain point? It's not like we are going to unpack that. Right. We're going to talk about like issues of social issues or anything, but we're not at a specific agenda of any university or whatever. It's really just our hearts, our, our desires to connect. You Bridge. Yeah, this, this. We, we cross the wall. We're playing with that bridge. Bridge across the wall.

Is that controversial? The wall? I mean, we're. Anyway, well, I think this, we're both pretty right wing guys. I don't know.

Yeah. But I think these days, just talking about a wall, it sparks all kinds things of the conversations.

Right.

So we, we wanted to name the podcast like Bridge the Wall. Like.

Yeah.

Or over the Wall. Right. Yeah, yeah. Ivory Tower got shut down by those two youngsters.

Yeah. They said we weren't cool enough, so.

Yeah, definitely. But we do want to say, like we want to talk about every issue related to life. Right. So that's, that's basically this podcast is about. But we do welcome any ideas you have. Like literally any ideas. So last chance for, Last chance for questions. If you have questions for Rob.

Right. Do you think they're going to do questions today? Maybe they will.

Maybe they will. Usually when we ask them for questions. So if you have questions from Rob, he's from Canada.

Like, it's cold. You know, it's not always cold. I, I'm. It's warm sometimes.

Yeah. But I have people here from Chicago listening, so I don't think you can impress them with cold. Yeah.

Because I lived in Chicago, it's not cold at all. It's not cold at all.

You cannot say it's not cold.

It's not mine.

I've experienced minus 50, 50, minus 50 with windchill.

Yeah. Wind chill doesn't count.

What do you mean? You know, hold on, hold on.

Minus 172 with which I'm not going.

To pause this podcast.

Canadians are not going to.

We need to say the one thing here. Okay. Is when it says in Chicago, like it's minus 20, feels like minus. What do you think I care about what it is or what it feels.

Like those feels like numbers. They go crazy. They got some kind of mathematical thing, like.

Yeah. But I think it actually. What. What it feels. And it felt like minus 50.

If you can't feel your nose, it's cold.

Is that okay?

Is that a Canadian driving. And the tires, like, are frozen with the dent at the bottom and it goes. That's cold. If you have to, like, take. Take your car battery and get your car started, that's cold. Oh, but this is not cold. Chicago, I was like a vacation when I lived in Chicago. It was like a vacation in the summer, in the winter.

No. Yeah, that's one. Because when we experience minus 50 in Chicago, when we experienced minus 15, Chicago, I will forever remember this. It was minus 50, and then it was like minus 30. Minus. And when it was like 14 degrees outside, I took my jacket off. I was like, oh, I feel so good. But I was like, in what world is that? Okay?

There's kids in Canada playing hockey and it's minus a bunch, and they're out there for hours. You can't feel several parts of your bodies by then. Like, it's troubling. Really. Come back inside.

Yeah. I can complain about. Because I grew up in Eastern Europe.

Oh, yeah. Cold. Is it or not?

Well, you're used to snow. And I'm like, just because I grew up there doesn't mean I like it. I actually despise snow. It's something that I want to go to.

Yeah.

I don't want it to come to me.

I kind of like, I got to stay here. I kind of like this note. I think we're reading some questions.

Are we?

I'm going to try to see if I can find them.

Let's see if there's. Do you guys have any questions?

Do you think the movement. How much time do we have, though? I think we're getting.

We have five minutes left, so that should be sufficient for one or two questions.

Rob, talk about youth ministry. Contributing conditioned egocentrism. Oh, that's too big for five minutes, but I'd like to do that. Okay, we will talk about that. Yeah.

You know, actually, that's such a good. It's such a good question for the role of youth ministry or how youth ministry has evolved.

Yeah. And the whole perception of kids leaving the church and stuff.

Yeah. Because of youth ministry.

Oh, what do we're getting? Lots of questions. Ryan. Ryan Johnson, my friend, says, what do people misunderstand about Jesus? Oh, that'd be interesting, too.

Oh, wow.

And then do you think. Do you Think the movement of teaching less Old Testament because it's boring will be a growing trend.

Oh, wow.

We could do that in a couple minutes, you know, Is that too big?

Well, we can share our opinions about that. So the question is about the growing trend of not teaching the Old Testament. Yeah, you see, it's fascinating. I grew up in a church for 11 years. We had the same pastor in that church. 11 years, and he's never opened the Old Testament.

You're kidding.

This is like. This is in 1990.

He.

He came to the pulpit with the New Testament with like, just New Testament. And I think the church was completely deprived of a massive, massive part of what that.

Dude. My dad was an Old Testament instructor, so like a new Hebrew teacher. So, I mean, I took a New Testament masters because I wanted to even myself out because I love the Old Testament so much. You know, the New Testament goes like, oh, Jesus is this, or God is this. And you're like, okay, that's great. But the Old Testament tells you this beautiful story, and then you're like, you see how God responds and you're kind of like, oh, I learned something about God. It's just so much richer, I think.

But how do you really understand the New Testament without actually unpacking it from the Old? Like, for me, it's fascinating.

It's a. Yeah. So false dilemma.

What would be really cool is if we can actually get somebody that supports that. That idea. I just don't understand. It's hard for me to really compute. I'm not putting it down.

I don't. I just don't think they understand. I think it's real. And I'm not. I'm not trying to be pejorative.

Okay.

Sound pejorative. We're being controversial. But it's the radio, so.

Yes.

Or whatever. The Internet. But no, seriously, I don't think people understand. I think they just see a couple of verses and they get weirded out and they're like, what about this verse about the fabric? Or something like that. And you're like, well, just think about it. Anyways, like, if you're gonna have a million people walking through the desert, you're gonna have some rules. Boy, you can eat how it gets cooked. It's just common sense. Yeah, but people get all weirded out.

But even that's picked up in the New Testament. And Paul talks in the Corinthians that all that happened for you to not go through that.

Right.

Read that. Because every, like, literally Second Corinthians. Right. Or everything that you Read there happened. They read in there happened. So you learn from it.

Yeah.

And not repeat it.

There's that, too.

Which we do.

Yeah.

Which completely. So I don't know if we answered it. Answer your question.

We'll get our Old Testament guys in here.

We'll get Old Testament guys.

Drop the hammer. They're angry bunch. Actual like Dr. Jasper. Angry.

Angry. But very nice. Very nice lady. I think she's gonna listen to this, so I think you need to correct that.

Okay. She's. She's a very pleasant lady. Everybody likes her.

Yes.

Same with her other Old Testament.

But you're also not a lot to lie on podcasts.

No.

Come on.

Everybody knows Dr. Josberg is awesome.

Yes. Yeah.

Everybody likes her.

That's true. Any other question there?

I don't see anything else.

Because we have two minutes left. We want to keep these around, like 30, you know. Third, let's say. Yeah. I have somebody that has not seen me in 15 years, so I don't know if that's gonna be good information for the podcast.

How's. What is it? Are you looking good? Is he. Does he say.

He didn't say anything. So that. That's concerning Future of Christian education.

We should talk about that.

Future of Christian education. Oh, yeah. Well, can I answer that in one second?

Sure.

There is a future.

Yeah.

For Christian education.

Yeah. Agreed.

But we do need to talk about how. Because everybody's getting hit, like, everybody in higher education is getting hit with, like, low enrollment.

Right.

So he talks about sustainability. Right. Is the. Is the Christian higher education going to look very different?

Yeah.

Not going to look higher education. Ish. Is it going to be back into the churches and the communities and stuff? Is it. How is it. We need to unpack that.

Yeah. Right.

But great question. Thank you. Yeah. The future of Christian higher education. And we have the right people here to talk about that. Definitely. Right. Okay. So I think this is. This is it. This is what's going on.

We'll try to be funny next time. We'll try to be interesting.

Thanks.

So get controversial. Everybody likes that.

So thank you for listening to our craziness, Sam.